| IVOD_ID |
166103 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/166103 |
| 日期 |
2025-12-03 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-4-20-10 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期財政委員會第10次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
10 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
20 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
財政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期財政委員會第10次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-12-03T10:27:45+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-12-03T10:39:52+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:12:07 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/d5a4ce084af309d6d614ff8b553121b109a18256bf6bdfeb7be3e8fe055fbc13450105506708a8dc5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
鍾佳濱 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:27:45 - 10:39:52 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-12-03T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期財政委員會第10次全體委員會議（事由：審查本院委員蔡易餘等16人、委員牛煦庭等26人分別擬具「銀行法第一百二十五條及第一百二十五條之四條文修正草案」等2案。） |
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主席 在場委員先進列席了政務機關所長官員會長工作夥伴媒體記者女士先生有請我們金管會彭主委好 請彭主委委員好 |
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主委好我想今天我們在審銀行法那主要是防止詐欺犯罪利用銀行儲存犯罪所得但簡單來講就是銀行法跟我們的資產的安全管理非常重要對不對是好 那我先請教一下今天我特別在標題先問到銀行這個金融兵推納網工主詐房癱瘓好 後面再來講我們看一看今天新聞上才提到的 |
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國營設立分行難道只在好賺的地區嗎我們看到金管會鬆綁讓國營開分行呢讓他可以再做一些效率上的整併跟提升是這樣嗎金管會的目的是什麼是讓那些偏遠地區業務量照少的分行金融機構他可以把它整併可是這樣的話我們的普惠金融民眾的這些實體服務的需求怎麼去兼顧主委的看法怎麼樣 |
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過去我們在銀行生設分行的過程當中一直把它當作一個重要的監理工具所以我們定有一個標準比如說你的ROE不到一定的比例是不可以來申請一家都不行但是比如說我們舉個簡單的例子簡單講就是說讓銀行開設分行的更放寬 |
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抑制于市场的需求设立更多的分行其实不是还是让他可以把一些他认为比较服务性的业绩不好的分行收掉到底目的是什么原来的那个做法有产生一刀切的问题就是比如说我们这样切下去很有可能不同的银行他经营策略就会受到限制比如说 |
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因为很多已经分行很多的银行可能数位化关系他关掉很多的分行是的但是对于一些在成长中或是他还有一些服务需要因为他受限于刚才那个标准他有18家他就都不能扩张不管在他的服务的提供跟未来成长性上他就是产生了一个限制所以你的目的是让金融机构可以有更大的竞争能力去开设而不受到这些一道气的规定我们就要看他你的合理性比如说但是他收掉分行怎么办 |
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收掉分行當然我們也會看這要經過我們的同意所以我關心的是收掉的部分好 我們來往下看最近有一本小局書它這裡面提到的跟我們金融有關的它是說當緊急避難危機狀況來臨的時候你要把身分證 健保卡我可以理解連存摺的銀本都要有紙本跟數位好奇怪另外也要求你要有一些現金跟零錢帶在身上為什麼 |
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為什麼在緊急狀況的時候你還要去保留你這個金融機構存摺的銀本或紙本或者數位我想這是從馬太安事件裡面我們就看到了這樣的一個情況就是說當我緊急的時候要向銀行去證明這件事情的時候是的 |
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可以很快速來看但是現在我們數位化如果很成功如果它整個中央系統沒有被處理掉你到其他的相關分行也是可以找到你的資料但是我們只是說以備萬一但是也有反過來的情況有可能我們的電力網路資料會被破壞反而你需要留下實體的證明對不對所以他這裡強調的紙本 實體跟數位都同時要有才是比較安全的是不是這樣子 |
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是一個當然是比較多重的這部分比較可以減少以後驗證就像比如身份證掉了你很麻煩對不對對 身份證掉了點起來就好啦對 就是你可以假設少了身份證包括你要重新開戶要確認你是誰就產生了困擾所以類似像這樣我們可以減少未來 |
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在验证的但是今天我们来谈到当一个紧急状况发生的时候我们本来赖以现代化数位化的生活就会受到中断所以我们来看一个情况在一个极端的状况我们看乌克兰的例子当一个极端的状况的时候这个国家的电力网络资料库系统都被破坏的时候甚至它是遭到网络的恐攻这时候无止化反而造成了你的银行账户你的资产不见了你的有价证券不晓得怎么去证明甚至你的不动产证明如果说资料库被破坏 |
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255.31 |
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這可能都損及到未來你在貧富之後你怎麼證明你的財產的問題是不是存在這樣的情況 |
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290.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
我想在極端情況的時候我們現在大部分都沒有經過這個狀況我們從一些媒體或是從其他知道在那個狀況的時候可能是電力網路跟這個大家都沒有了當我們沒有電力沒有網路的時候確實很多數位服務會中斷但是我們也開始也注意到說這問題怎麼樣強化金融的韌性怎麼樣維持最低度的服務的應變措施但是那種極端狀還沒來臨的還有一種就是什麼就是這一個就是科技手段的攻擊 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
291.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
314.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
就是說我們之前有委員提出叫做金融兵推不見得在第一時間它就是一個極端的一個武力攻擊的狀態但是因為我們的數位金融很普及如果有人用網路恐攻對我們金融系統或者說平時不是恐攻恐攻跟詐欺它的利基點都在於我們大量的仰賴數位金融所以因為數位金融的關係 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
315.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
340.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
這些竊取個資或者詐騙金流它就可以產生恐攻它剛好目的不是為了錢它為了擾亂你的金融秩序那麼我們金管會對於這個部分用科技手段來進行攻擊有沒有進行金融的兵推其實我們在金融研訓院過去一直都有針對這部分我們有跟國外的這些的相關的兵推機構做合作這已經做很多年了 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
340.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
366.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
是 所以你們得到什麼心得其實這些兵推不是只有緊急狀況發生平時也跟我們打仗有關對不對是的是的 好 那我們現在看好 那現在我們來看一下這個小局主提到說這些資安看起來大家看到資安就很像是速發布但是你認為像這個資安裡面它所提示的事情譬如說來自中國伺服器在中國的APP或者說它有各自洩漏的風險或者說據攝像 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
367.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
395.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
的功能的中國品牌產品這些在危機發生的時候都可能產生我們的個資或隱私外洩但在平常的時候這會不會也是一個詐團他們進行詐騙取得個資的一個管道所以這些看起來資安是屬於速發部的是不是也跟我們的金融安全息息相關跟我們的打詐息息相關那當然打詐是不會分部會的它是就是無孔不入詐騙無孔不入我想這部分我們在金融這邊也不斷提醒我們的 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
396.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
418.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
我們的消費者所以我不斷地剛兩度引用了小局書就是希望說金管會也可以用思考居安思維從打造的角度也要參考小局書的這樣的內容去告訴民眾做一些宣導我們來看一下 譬如說金管還可以做什麼譬如說我們看到Coupon有人說個資外洩是一個中級的離職員工為什麼特別要講到中級 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
419.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
446.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
就是跟Apple的伺服器放在中國一樣我們覺得他的有疑慮我們又看到台積電最近台積電最大的一個問題不是那個挪威人是因為有三個內鬼洩密結果呢居然啊不追溯東京威力啊而且用國安法所以目前我們看到說這些金融從平常的打詐到境外敵對勢力的滲透這些都從治安到國安都有關聯是不是這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
446.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
473.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
我想資安是一個全面的議題它就是會影響到個人以外如果很多的個人單位影響整個社會影響到國家所以我們看到如果就台積電的案子他們對於前高階主管離職後跑去Intel那是國家忠誠他們有沒有敬業條款他們違反了前公司的保密規定台積電自然會對他個人採取一個訴求法律訴求但是對於國籍的問題這就問題來了我們往下看 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
474.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
498.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
譬如說我們的關鍵基礎設施你看一看台電對它的關鍵基礎是說公平對待廠商不允許具有中級的員工維修人員進入核電廠你覺得為什麼為什麼同樣的這樣的一個關鍵基礎設施台電會特別針對你的外包商你來標我的工程標我的維修但是你進入廠區的不能有中國國籍的這樣的員工為什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
499.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
515.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
我想當然就是基於剛剛那一些的考慮那上面有幾個個案就告訴我們這件事情好 所以關鍵基礎設施包括我們的金融重要的基礎設施我們其實有針對幾家重要的金融機構我們是有特別的 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
516.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
532.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
有規定他們的人員的國籍的規定有在清查嗎其實我們在金融機構啊所有的裡面的這些的人員的聘僱都有一定的規定對外國人的聘僱都有一定的規定所以目前這個部分可不可以請金管會在上次有詢問過 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
533.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
560.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
你請你再次檢查一下好不好是不是我們有做到了目前我們看到的這些在其他商業部門暴露出來的個案我們金融機構特別重要好再往下看其實過去本席有提出說我們炸房條例跨業照會要納第三方支付目前政院版的第88條有沒有納入三支就是我們現在是因為以前那個照會只有同業照會我們現在改成跨業照會是的 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
561.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
575.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
那跨業造會當中跨業是跨哪些業有沒有辦法第三方支付主要是VASP跟銀行銀行那三支呢三支過去一樣是炸團最常使用的那麼怎麼預防炸團用三支呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
577.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
591.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
这里面的所谓的其他金融机构或提供虚拟资产服务之事业会人员包括三支现在看起来是没有现在是没有那觉得需不需要将三支纳入到这一个范围内 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
592.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
609.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
因為主要是我們打造專法裡面四個帳戶本身來講它已經有界定在一定的範圍內是不是請我們局長補充一下趕快時間有限這個我們在行政院平台裡面有討論過數位部是認為說因為目前三制它已經有納入到能量管理的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
611.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
628.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
所以他不用透過這種跨業造會的機制來處理好 我想呢這個炸團的手段日新月異我希望金管會不要因此說其他部會說不用就不用你們要維持你們的高度警戒如果說只有能量納管不夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
629.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
658.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
那麼你們未來的法規內容還要擴充 可以嗎是 我們會來在那個平台上來提出這樣一個相關的演繹好 最後我這邊之前也在一個我們公聽會的時候提過關於國際資安的管理標準這裡面他提到的資安的漏洞其實包含了不是在場域裡面的其他的電子設備它的晶片內容都要納入目前我們國內的金融機構大部分都以國際資安管理標準去進行 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
659.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
683.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
但是它仍然有漏洞它的漏洞我在上次公聽會的時候提到說不是人員 不是進行傳輸的設備而是在空間場域的其他電子傳輸設備講得很簡單就是在一個金庫裡面你以為你在幫客戶理財專員在幫客戶理財的電腦是乾淨的但是同一個空間有其他電子傳輸設備是有 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
685.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
708.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
治安疑慮的晶片就有可能將這個資訊外泄這個就是說所謂的金融機構以及VASP全營業場域納入認證範圍這個部分是不是請主委指示我們局長就這個議題就上次公聽論的結論詳細的再去做一個評估可以嗎好局長可以嗎知道我在講什麼部分吧知道好那就謝謝主委謝謝局長謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
712.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
715.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
謝謝鍾嘉賓委員接下來請李昆成委員質詢謝謝主席 |