| IVOD_ID |
166084 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/166084 |
| 日期 |
2025-12-03 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-4-36-13 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期司法及法制委員會第13次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
13 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
36 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
司法及法制委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期司法及法制委員會第13次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-12-03T09:33:34+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-12-03T09:50:40+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:17:06 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/d5a4ce084af309d6015de0653be27d33d25403dec583eac6ab4060e56b945967cb66546e995582555ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
吳宗憲 |
| 委員發言時間 |
09:33:34 - 09:50:40 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-12-03T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期司法及法制委員會第13次全體委員會議（事由：邀請法務部部長、司法院副秘書長就「民法繼承編特留分制度之檢討」進行專題報告，並備質詢。
【12月3日及4日兩天一次會】） |
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好 謝謝 我們麻煩法務部及司法院請部長和副秘書長 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
23.799 |
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好 兩位早安我想這次有關兄弟姊妹特留份這個要修法的部分我是立法院第一個提出修法版本的委員而且我在幾個禮拜前也開過記者會有找台灣移族協會他們來開了一個記者會其實我長期以來我就一直覺得兄弟姊妹特留份這東西我們早就應該要修法了 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
46.954 |
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那我過去在擔任檢察官的時候我看過很多家庭的悲劇那遺產的問題其實是偵查體裡面很常見的一個那不管是親處之間的一些仇恨 侵占等等的但是走到特留份這一關的時候他引發出來的問題是常常有一些幾十年沒有聯絡的兄弟姊妹他到最後被繼承人死亡的時候他就跳出來就特留份的部分然後跟其他人在對部公堂 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
75.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
90.681 |
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所以法律本來應該保障家屬就現在反而變成製造仇恨尤其是現在跟100年前的整個社會的狀況不一樣家族的觀念跟以前100年前其實那個凝聚力也跟以前不一樣所以我才會認為說這個部分修法其實是 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
91.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
113.139 |
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有破綻沒燒一定要趕快處理那我覺得這次我看到因為我很重視這個議題所以法務部跟司法院的報告我都有仔細看那我老實說法務部的態度比較讓人家失望啦完全輸給司法院司法院的報告寫得很清楚德國 日本 瑞士這些國家螃蟹血清早就沒有特留份那韓國最近也宣告違憲 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
114.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
140.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
所以司法院的結論非常乾脆就說無不同意見就尊重我們立法刪除但是法務部報告寫了一大堆最後給的方案是好幾個方案那一下說可以廢 一下又說維持現狀然後最後說維持開放的態度那部長剛剛說有不同意見但是也沒有講出什麼是不同意見但是部長你這個想法在實務上面就叫做沒有態度刪除特留份的部分就沒有態度 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
141.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
164.682 |
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那您是主管機關 實聽法部份 法務部是主管機關然後卻說到115年才要啟動修法然後你才要找學者 公聽會你不覺得其實這個速度太慢了所以我還是想這樣其實有很多例子我們看到的是 甚至就是說我看過一個例子是頂客族 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
165.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
186.294 |
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然後先生病重 太太照顧他一輩子結果最後先生過世了以後他是說這個財產要全部給配結果先生一走就跑出他那個同父異母的弟弟跳出來從來沒見過的 跳出來要分特留份結果呢 老婆還必須賣房子因為他們只有一間房子 還必須賣掉房子 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
187.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
204.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
去给了这个同父异母这个他先生兄弟要去补他的特留份所以今天一个本来他太太还有个房子可以安身立命自己一个人就到最后连房子都没有所以既然世界先进国家都已经承诺这样是不是可以请部长法务部这边 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
205.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
228.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
能夠趕快處理啊 不要說再拖到 一直拖下去啦然後又還有很多不同的想法一下可以 一下不可以可不可以能夠就直接告訴我們國人說其實這個我們就支持刪除 像司法院一樣 部長事實上委員剛剛很關心的這個其實105年那個草案裡面就特留分是有觸及這個問題了 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
230.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
257.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
他那時候是要降低的那個特留分的一個比例因為其實委員會我們是主管機關所以更要廣大一個意見那其實當然一定是有一個要不要維持的要全部都要上去的那這部分那我想委託研鑽12月底要出來那我想我們會盡快再啟動這個修法但是部長講到一個很重要的點是105年是不是那這部分這個特留分的今年已經114年那一次是有提到 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
258.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
274.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
那次是修法那是有提到叫立法院這部分就是因為因為大家因為大家那個因為大院就是因為因為借期不連續我還是建議部長啦司法院都勇於表態了那 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
275.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
302.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
法務部卻是一個模擬兩可的答案這部分請部長您參酌好不好因為既然105年就曾經提過不管屆期連不連續啦但這是一個老議題了都沒有動作也不好那這部分也不是說外界有的所以意思我們就是有委託研究案部長那就這樣那我最後我想要三句話啦我跟這個社會跟社會大眾報告為什麼我認為特留份手足特留份要刪除第一個我們要尊重被繼承人的遺願 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
304.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
329.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
這是他的財產處分權所以我們把最後決定權還給人民還給這位被繼承人第二個 減少家人兌付公帑就我剛說的 搞到最後常常兄弟姊妹為了特留份兌付公帑這是不應該讓這事情發生而且這是法律搞出來的結果第三個 我們讓家人更安心我們要保障留給真正關心被繼承人的這些人照顧往生者的這些人 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
330.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
354.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
所以我希望朝野能夠支持我們把手足特留份的部分刪除這跟全國人民以及跟部長報告這個狀況接下來我想提第二個問題部長 我要跟您提三個案子那這個部分也請部長能夠真正的重視這個問題我來講三個故事 第一個 一把雨傘的事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
355.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
373.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
老太太到區公所辦事情錯拿別人的雨傘結果被報警被帶走被起訴一路打到高等法院然後呢最高法院在判決裡面直接講這種小案子檢警動用整套刑事系統把當天去那裡辦事情的民眾的個資全部都要調出來調監視器 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
377.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
404.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
然後為了辦一支雨傘這有沒有嚴重的違反比例原則而且呢法官在判決還提醒了檢察官不要濫用自己的檢查權那第二個案子救電鍋的事情我想這幾個案子大家都已經很清楚了台北市的清潔隊員把車上價值剩下32塊的救電鍋送給實荒的老人讓他去煮飯結果被依照貪污責任條例侵占植物上的財物 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
405.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
426.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
起訴 還好 後來法官當然輕判但這不是還好啦 這是悲劇啦那這是 這是多大的問題這個人就叫做 就前科犯 貪污的前科犯甚至還有排外條款的適用甚至他以後要請良民證也請不到不過很多很多問題不是檢察官一份起訴書那麼簡單啦好 再來 第三個是 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
428.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
455.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
紅單 警察開紅單的事情派出所的警察對於違規停車認為是停在私人土地所以他只勸導車主離開但是呢 被檢察官竟然最後用土地罪來起訴他法定刑五年以上 搞到一二審最後法官都說這個是行政疏失 判無罪但是這三年來這個警察被停職 薪水砍半 還得了憂鬱症停職是本薪的一半而已喔他一個月只剩下零一萬多塊 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
456.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
485.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
好 我們看到的是一把雨傘的部分是檢察官無視比例原則司法變全民夢魘這嚴重的違反比例原則我跟你講法官他怎麼樣講檢察官他說檢警為了一把雨傘調閱了這些所有民眾的個資然後還把被告以外的個資一併附在偵查券裡面這個有沒有過當好 再來浪費司法資源一把雨傘搞得檢警一審二審 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
486.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
505.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
那這樣司法不會過勞 司法不會崩潰嗎所以這個檢察官在幹什麼好 再來他花費已經 當事人是住美國耶他每次開庭要從美國飛回台灣耶還要再請律師耶他這是幾百倍 幾千倍相當於這個雨傘的價格了好 最後 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
506.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
534.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
法官還說檢察官完全搞不清楚裁量權我國是引用德國法治的啊德國法治就有違罪不舉這個概念嘛檢察官本來就要勇於依據職權不起訴不應該上訴就不要上訴檢察官不要有壞習慣無罪就一律上訴我以前當檢察官的時候長官都跟我說無罪就一定要上訴不能不上訴這是錯誤的觀念無罪就無罪如果法官的判決有道理檢察官就要勇於不上訴這是檢察官的勇氣 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
538.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
558.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
不能讓檢察官變成是一個只會起訴跟上訴的人選機器檢察官喪失財囊權那你叫國中生高中生來當檢察官就好了今天為什麼檢察官受那麼多的教育就是讓你有判斷的能力所以財囊權還是應該好好的運用我們講到雨傘然後講到電鍋電鍋更糟糕 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
559.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
585.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
你今天我們講民眾不小心拿到雨傘警察官就這樣窮追猛打結果對於這個公務員是毀滅性的打擊核彈級的打擊一個32塊的電鍋跟幾百億的工程弊案我們用的是同一部法律耶 報告部長32塊的電鍋跟幾百億的工程弊案我們是用同一套法律耶 同樣的邏輯耶結果警察官就機械式的套用法律然後構成要件套一套就起訴了 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
586.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
611.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
然後把一個善意的東西用貪汙來辦這是證明了我們的司法完全僵化到背離了人民的法律感情檢察官很多時候他必須要去認定他必須要下自己的價值判斷在裡面他要勇於不起訴或勇於職權不起訴啊怎麼到今天就過程要先拿一套一套符合法律規範 過程要先拿幾個字我就一律起訴 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
613.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
640.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
部長這不是什麼高深的學問這只是一個社會相當性的概念部長我們都受同一套教育出來的辦案的時候還是要講法理情但是你理跟情都要討論最高檢最近不是有發一個新聞稿給全國各地檢裡面就有提到犯罪所得跟法義侵害甚為的貪污案件真的要去思考法理情以及社會相當性的概念 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
642.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
661.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
在法律上面叫做可罰的違法性啦但是我不要講那麼難嘛可罰違法性其實對我們就是一個社會共感的觀念你把一個人他送了一個32塊的電鍋給石荒的人然後你社會這樣辦他不會有國人覺得司法人員好棒棒大家只覺得我們很不人道部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
662.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
683.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
他這部分就情形法重這部分我剛才已經有提到了這個我們其實也不是做定過案我們才提出修法這個情形法重的這個案件尤其是貪污自罪條例我知道你有提一個這個我們有提出了我知道我們馬上就提出了一個修法了那這份刑罪沒審訊了我希望能夠解決委員關心這個問題我跟部長報告一下辦這個貪污的是 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
687.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
707.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
那個黑金組的檢察官我自己也在黑金待很多年你黑金組檢察官通常是挑狀況比較好就你用最精銳的一批部隊去辦這個這個因為所以委員你也知道你也在時務待過嘛這個黑金組本來就是辦貪污的這個案件所以他們是在黑金組不是因為這個案件一定要指定給黑金組最讓我火大是 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
708.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
720.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
原警開單那個案子法官怎麼說你知道嗎高院法官說沒有證據說原警有拿好處收紅包他只是自己對於現狀的判斷只勸導沒開單但是因為我法院是我本部法院的判決是個案我們都尊重法院的判決但是本部法務部是在處理法案的處罰金額稅 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
732.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
753.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
部長 你還沒有抓到我告訴你的東西部長 你一直在講尊重法官的判決我現在在告訴你檢察官偵查以及起訴有一個很大的問題當然檢察官偵查起訴法院也是判有罪所以檢察官或法院都有檢察官在公訴力挺以及在起訴都有求情 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
755.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
777.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
你已經講了 我有聽到這個有求情 這個案件我們認為是法律上最大的文字這樣去達成你不要一直在那邊講 我跟你講時間有限我只要跟你說 檢察官在處理案子的時候麻煩注意一下社會的共感 我跟你講 報告部長我今天 報告部長 部長你聽我說報告部長 部長可不可以聽我說 拜託你 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
782.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
801.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
我時間就這麼多但是我必須告訴你我看到司法的問題我今天何其有幸報告部長你聽我說報告部長你可以聽我說嗎我這輩子何其有幸三權分立行政立法司法三權我都走過當我走過三權再回過頭來看司法權的時候部長部長可以聽我講話嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
807.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
836.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
我說我何其有幸走過三權分立的三權結果我回過頭來看司法權之後我發現我們的司法權尤其是檢察官你是定位為司法官本來是對於被告的利與不利一併注意就我們今天只在乎構成要件符不符合我們搞出了社會很多本來微小的案子本來應該職權不起訴或甚至從寬去認定他構成要件的部分或者是不要率然的就覺得他有 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
837.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
849.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
主觀翻譯 而可以做不起訴處分 要讓社會安定就我們今天看到的不是這樣 沒關係 部長你一直跟我爭辯 個案爭辯什麼我只是跟部長報告 我們已經對過太多次了我跟你講啦 一把雨傘可以上訴到高院由法院讓你們收尾 32塊的電鍋可以當 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
860.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
875.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
高院最高檢來發新聞稿滅火然後一個員警開單搞到最後判無罪他報收20公斤然後好幾年沒有辦法工作我跟你說這個對不起這個國家然後我要跟你講一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
876.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
896.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
很多東西是結構性的問題不要濫用圖利罪貪污罪條例有它存在的必要可以好好的讓這個國家變更好但是我們最近看到一堆人拿圖利罪來玩政治攻擊王一川說那個啊 揮打案啊是不是公務員涉及圖利啊搞到最後我不懂圖利罪這個東西會不會弄到最後變成是 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
897.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
925.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
在修理公務員或者是阻礙國家進步的一個條文為什麼世界上那麼多國家沒有圖利罪而我們我們中華民國把圖利罪玩到這麼如火純青玩到一堆政治人物就搞你圖利罪就好了嘛反正最後判無罪選舉也過了我看到的實務上面竟然很多是這樣然後動不動拿圖利罪來嚇公務員讓公務員不敢做事讓國家無法進步 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
926.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
937.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
是不是我們應該要去思考一下為什麼世界上那麼多國家沒有土利罪或者是我們應該把土利罪構成要件多加一些限制讓依法行政的公務員不要害怕 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
939.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
967.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
沒有時間的關係我想我有些東西我留到下一次再問那我只是最後不好意思給我30秒我提了一個東西司法過勞的部分部長我還有一些東西我下次再問你司法過勞的部分我跟你說現在已經年底了我們的同仁以前同仁又開始在拚結案我上個禮拜我去桃檢找以前的同仁我看到每個人都被券給淹沒了五年內詐欺案件暴增所以現在地檢署 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
968.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
996.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
跟法院三分之一都是詐欺案從去年四月我一直辦一些公聽會一直倡議說補人不是重點真正要簡化流程所以裁判書檢查書類這個是不是要把它簡化所有的當過各位在現場的法官檢察官都知道書類是大家負擔最重的是不是說我們要先簡化這個而不要再流於刑事我知道你們推了很多次但後來都是刑事如果今天連司法機關 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
998.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
1022.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
法務部 司法院都不願意為同仁推動修法 拯救自己不願意為書記官 法官 檢察官 檢察事務官 司法事務官去爭取一套更合理的工作流程的話還有誰能替司法抒壓所以司法會崩潰 搞到最後大家為了逃離這個海量的工作量我就是巴結政治人物 趕快升官 脫離基層這樣最安全 司法就是這樣敗壞的好 謝謝謝謝吳委員 |