| IVOD_ID |
16607 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16607 |
| 日期 |
2025-04-22 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
院會-11-3-8 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期第8次會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
8 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
院會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期第8次會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2025-04-22T08:30:28+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-04-22T15:19:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
06:48:32 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/8398b1826590a609829cb187fc0ed970313f24779fd214cfbd9360bdedb08522a2b4dbe2d3f9fa8d5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-04-22T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
第11屆第3會期第8次會議（事由：一、對行政院院長提出施政方針及施政報告繼續質詢。二、4月18日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。三、4月22日下午2時15分至2時30分為處理臨時提案時間。） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:30:28 - 15:19:00 |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
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主委長 各位國務院長早安保安院會現在我們繼續開會對行政院院長施政方針及施政報告繼續諮詢進行諮詢之前我們首先請民主黨報告部會首長請假請行報告院會行政院來函外交部林部長佳龍本日應公請假由吳次長至終列代表列席國防部副部長立雄本日下午應公請假 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
1812.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
1835.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
由薄副部長洪威代表列席海洋委員會管主任委員碧玲本日上午應公請假由黃副主任委員向文代表列席橋委員會徐委員長嘉青本日應公請假由阮副委員長昭雄代表列席國民署長明欣本日上午應公請假報告完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
1837.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
1843.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
現在今天我們進行個人質詢內政組現在首先請林國成委員質詢 麥玉珍委員請準備 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
1866.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
1885.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
好謝謝院長請我們行政院卓院長麻煩請卓院長備詢另外請我們內政部麻煩請內政部備詢陸委會的邱主委麻煩請陸委會備詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
1889.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
1890.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
院長 主委還有部長大家早 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
1908.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
1935.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
我想卓院長一向我個人跟你就任到現在520到現在我說實在我看得出來啦你是非常無奈以我了解過去的卓榮泰確確實實有所無奈的在做中華民國的行政院院長當然我們看得出來本黨一向包括我在內 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
1936.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
1963.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
理性務實科學我們絕對不會因為人而來拗任何事情有多少證據講多少話有什麼事情我們也會多體會執政者的苦處我也知道 燕子啊你對最近的內政問題確實千頭萬細對於大罷免你也非常無奈 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
1965.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
1981.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
對於關稅的問題 當前現在所有的錢民 大家非常關注的關稅問題這也就是一句話 大國任性 小國忍受 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
1982.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
1998.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
這些東西本來就是很無奈所以我也知道你雖然做了中華民國的行政院長但是確實有很多無奈的事情但是院長我說實在的我特別還是要鼓勵和勉勵你 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
2000.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
2023.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
真的有些事情要面對問題解決問題真的因為你現在所有的行政院長當中我在做比較你的人品是好的很但是你現在做出來的事情確實是讓人民非常無奈我必須提供一個資訊給院長做參總因為這些關稅問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
2030.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
2037.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
你知道你的民調下7%嗎所以這個提供給你做參考那我在想我時間給院長30秒的時間針對這些你認同我這些說謊嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
2046.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
2074.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
確實無奈最大的無奈來自立法院的結構對行政院送出的種種的法案都一概不予同意而且立法院通過的法案一再違背預算法跟憲法的規定好 超出預算超出設出從來沒有徵詢行政院這個無奈才讓我寸步難行院長 這個你已經講你已經講過很多次了你的無奈不是這個這些好不好 我特別要提醒 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
2075.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
2088.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
你不能比我了解我的無奈啊你的無奈我都了解不然我不會開頭就讓你有這種說明的機會我坦白跟你講啊現在就是選舉有政黨執政無政黨這種心態去執政 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
2092.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2114.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
那就沒有問題可是你們現在不是啊所以燕子啊我不要跟你辯論這些我一定會尊重你現在你的處境但是我還是要呼籲我今天特別的主題就是要你沒有問題但是你的格言是大大有問題為什麼不要再造謠 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
2119.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2124.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
不要再造謠我要請問劉部長3月29號你在下鄉演講的時候請問一下你為什麼指責台灣民眾黨吃台灣米變成中國粿拜託你告訴我為什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2140.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2161.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
報告委員,我這是以個人的身份到...你不要跟我講個人的身份,可是你為什麼要指名道姓台灣民眾黨呢?我跟你講,我膝掌你起碎,身在台灣,始為台灣鬼,那你為什麼要罵台灣民眾黨是中國鬼呢?你的定義是什麼? |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2161.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2185.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
因為在前一天,這個台灣民眾黨有到鳳山那鳳山那邊有人去抗議,抗議的時候舉的這個牌子我覺得這個牌子呢,我覺得對於有一些不是只貴黨有一些人呢,他們的一個請供應該是要做出來說明你口才很好,但是你不要換位置,要換腦袋 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2187.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2213.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
這幾天你會對集會遊行法你過去在立法委員的時候你什麼態度你現在當為一個主管的時候你什麼態度這個我也不要跟你辯論你有你的看法換一個位置 換一個腦袋 無所謂但是你是政黨的主管機關指名道姓個人 我不批評但是你指名台灣民眾黨 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2214.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2236.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
那就包括我在內可是我告訴你我就是台灣人我就是台灣鬼你幹嘛罵我中國鬼什麼意思所以我跟你講部長我尊重你過去你在當立法委員你在當副市長你在當我們台北市的局長我都非常尊敬的 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2237.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2259.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
但是你講台灣民眾黨吃台灣米是中國鬼這基本上這是一個恥辱是一個政黨的主管機關應該這樣講嗎是應該這樣嗎所以我不服氣我要對你抗議所以照這種規則我告訴你就應該要下台 院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2260.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2277.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
我坦白跟你講沒有政黨的主管機關他是首長欸他是主管政黨那我們是中國鬼那你什麼鬼你告訴我你什麼鬼跟委員報告我跟你一樣吃台灣米做台灣粿 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2279.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2302.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
是啊 那你為什麼要講我們臺灣民眾黨是中國鬼咧所以我告訴你前言跟後語要對齁什麼前言跟後語 你還要再變對不起不對就不對但是我坦白跟你講 我一下 卓院長你很清楚我是對任何事情 我不會對人尤其我尊敬的人 我是禮讓三分 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2303.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2330.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
那我也相信這不是卓院長要你講可是我也同意在這整個人潮洶湧的情況之下一定會有一種情緒高昂可是你是政黨的主管機關部長不可以這樣講你講個人是個人的事你不能現在又推你自己本身是代表個人不可以這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2331.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2356.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
言論自由我們尊重可是你不能整個黨都給人家罵下去這樣不好啦說實在我的墳墓我已經看好了就在台灣不會在中國這我很大膽的告訴你我也很大膽的跟卓院長你來做報告好 邱主委來我請問一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2357.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2377.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
你有沒有發現台灣民眾黨在你們做兩岸政策的時候我們有阻擋你任何議案沒有 有沒有我們比較遺憾的是不要遺憾有沒有台灣民眾黨有沒有阻擋你們任何的一個政策 有沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2379.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2396.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
目前法律案是還沒有但是預算案卻蠻遺憾的你不要再給我扯預算案預算案是這種東西是另外一個我跟你談的是一個政黨的有沒有阻擋你兩岸的問題有沒有有就有沒有就沒有有沒有報告委員我們提了很多的國安法相關的法律國安法我在程序委員會啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2408.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2436.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
院長 我告訴你啦 你不要被底下的蒙騙啦我告訴你 提了只有兩案沒有通過 其他通通通過這兩案是到底立法委員跟村里長跟議員要到大陸去訪問的時候要跟主管機關報告 或者跟我立法院來報告只有黨這個我們希望是跟我立法院來報告立法委員跟立法院 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2437.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2459.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
院報告這是順理存章所以說有黨啊不管什麼理由就是有黨啊我們認為這樣才是國家安全所必須的但是就是有黨啊這不是黨這是戰犯我曾經提案人我跟他溝通你就改跟立法院來報告我們沒意見你可以去看看主張有些無關緊要有促進 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2461.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2473.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
這國安的問題我跟你講我們都沒有黨喔我跟你講如果台灣民眾黨你們認為我們還是不理性的話我說實在的你找不到所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2473.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2502.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
那個 邱主委 有就有 沒有就沒有我們是希望像這個立法院的社密人員應該跟行政部門來做通報 我們來做審查你是一個 該你的事 有就有 沒有就沒有我坦白講啦 我坦白講你知不知道 台灣民眾黨的立委還是多數被中共季節進入中國的 你知道嗎你知不知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2503.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2531.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
我告訴你我們跟民進黨的立法委員沒有兩樣還是被禁止進入中國所以我今天為什麼這麼氣愧一定將心比心啦 你會通過我了解但是我要分開你也要了解你聽好不好不能這樣亂講所以這一點我坦白跟你講我要提供資訊給你我們還有很多人被禁止進入大陸的連香港都不能去的所以這一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2532.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2535.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
我想邱主委你特別要去了解一下好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2535.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2546.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
所以對於立法委員去到大陸除了跟他院長了解之外主管機關才能掌握未來的人身安全這是一個非常普遍的要求 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2566.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2568.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
所以政黨的批判 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2569.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2597.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
當然要 院長 我不管是口誤或不管是細意那是另外一回事今天有機會跟你這樣對白我希望最政黨的價值性的批判當然要謹慎但是任何政黨對總統的批判也要非常的小心一定 你如果要去暗撫那個領導的事情我特別跟你說來 接下來第二張請問一下嘛來 劉部長這些都是你們民進黨的人喔這些都是 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2598.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2607.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
都是被我們國安單位調查 司法單位調查這是 請問一下這是台灣鬼或中國鬼你告訴我 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2608.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2627.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
他已經接受了中國的價值觀所以他從這就是中國鬼啦沒有 他從最堅強的堡壘當中要來破壞這個堡壘這個就是他們的戰術所以他已經是台灣人接受了中國的價值觀我跟你講啦我尊重你 我不希望你一直去袒護這些我們要面對問題該辦就辦 而不要嚴辦恕辦你恍而沒有去糾正你的格言 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2633.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2655.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
你隔眼做任何事情你要概括承受的因為你是中華民國行政院最高所長所以你的隔眼講出話來你是要概括承受本來就不可以這樣的台灣鬼就是台灣鬼像這些 好 進行下一張 來 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2658.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2681.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
好啦 一定 我不跟你吵架啦 時間有限我坦白跟你講 你們很奇怪這個主公會裡面 我跟你講這些警消主公會 我記得很清楚教師主公會也是這種想法但是最後教書沒有罷工錢 他只有勞動三權 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2684.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2700.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
過得很好啊 也沒有罷工啊所以這些東西說實在的不要把它看成洪水猛獸所以啊 我們柯總召又說這個主張主公會的人就是中共同路人 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2703.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2716.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
這是我們獻華賦儀結社遣的一種但是至於錦霄因為他是公務人員要不要讓他們兼濟勞工之身份 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2718.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2741.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
這個可以談但是你們反對 一定 我坦白跟你講因為公務人員兼具勞工身份在台灣非常之多所以 確確實實 這個是可以談但是如何把它研磨不能去用醜化的動作喔 這些警校就是中共同路人支持的就是 你如果要這樣 我跟你講喔上一屆 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2743.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2766.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
二十幾個民進黨支持喔這一屆有十六個人喔你們這種理論扭曲事實的理論說實在一定 這些人不就都要抓起來這不合理啦我們對警消同仁的尊敬跟支持跟我們對國軍弟兄的尊敬支持是一樣的只是警消人員對國家有特別權利與關係我們必須要維持這種權利與關係時間的問題啦 我要呼應你 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2772.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2793.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
對於打詐的問題不要開玩笑現在國外非常猖獗以前是針對年輕人現在是中高齡所以這個問題知性現在你們報案的專線良又不起有時候真的他要報案真的要統一報案專線 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2795.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2820.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
這個才是真正要義法打詐確實要打但是打詐行為的結構已經在轉變大家最詬病的投資詐騙目前已經稍微有下降好 謝謝林國成委員謝謝卓院長 各部會所長的備詢 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2825.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2848.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
接下來我們請蔓越真委員質詢翁曉琳委員請準備謝謝院長有請卓院長麻煩再請卓院長備詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2862.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2882.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
蔡委員好院長好我有一個問題是帶民眾請教你的如果你孩子和你要十萬元去吃一頓牛排你會馬上給他還是會詢問他我會問他什麼事多少人去哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2883.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2900.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
很好 所以我再請教一下行政院如果你是說要問他 我們也會去問你一樣的道理 所以總預算也是一樣的所以再請教你是不是負責編列預算及執行計畫的職責是嗎 行政院 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2905.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2921.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
行政院整個部會立法院是不是要負責為人民把關審查我們的預算好看錢有沒有亂花有沒有花在刀口上該不該給是不是要多少立法院 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2922.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
2949.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
不是都聽你的 你拿過來我們就馬上給跟你給孩子一樣一定要問為什麼 是嗎對不對 跟誰去嘛 花什麼嘛 是不是你剛才有說嘛所以你拿行政院編訂預算 立法院審議預算這是憲法所定的沒錯 所以跟我們人民在委託我問你的一樣的道理 這樣子的邏輯所以我們就合理 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
2949.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
2969.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
合法的就是要請我們各個部會這麼簡單而已就是你們要來跟我們是要審查預算所以我們要的就是要問要說明所以呢我們就是要溝通才會知道要不要給嘛 是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
2971.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
2991.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
小艾回答我說她要一百個人去做一件會長對她的公司我說她一頓喔不要去解釋那個所以我們立法院要刪除的預算但是委員我們不會跟她說我先凍結70%妳吃到30%的時候再來跟我要啊我們立法院凍結是人民的錢嗎我可能跟她講妳吃到30%的時候再來跟我要 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
2998.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
3016.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
問你就是我們百分之三十因為問了我們不知道他做什麼所以給他七十對啊對不對你說的對嘛我們問了你們要去吃牛排我給你七十趴了嘛你真的吃牛排回來跟我講我才吃跟你 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
3017.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
3046.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
在補嘛 在解凍嘛這樣子那麼簡單的邏輯而已啊所以我們是 如果你覺得這樣我們現在全部我們立法院刪除的不是人民的費用所以你要在各個地方你用立法我們立法院這邊的預算你用行政院的身份到處去招搖所以我們 我要敢問你 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
3047.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
3076.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
我們113個立委在8個部會裡面去審所有的預算全部各部會的預算你有每一個一個去看嗎我們要幫你把關我們希望這個預算劃在刀口上萬一他們出事情你敢對全國的人民發誓只要各個部會有爭議我行政院長全部負責敢不敢 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
3078.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
3106.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
你敢不敢嘛因為我們是幫你把關希望我們這個預算花在刀口上對不對不是我們要刪預算我們做任何事情我們就是因為你知道他們的預算我們省預算我在基層我們都有省的民間團體的預算都有起源目的執行我們要怎麼樣到效果但是我們這邊沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
3107.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
3119.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
完全去改113年的計劃沒有任何的創意也沒有任何的改變就送過來了所以我們看到的都是三個都是吃喝玩樂我們有2,806億的新增預算委員怎麼可以說我們是改113年的計劃呢檢安委員預算書沒有看完改了都是113年的大預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
3132.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3146.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
都是改所以你要去看的 你有沒有全部看還是你聽說 我們是真正的去看你有沒有去看 全部各部會的預算所以真的 院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3151.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3158.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
2800億新增預算 委員知道哪一項嗎 不知道啊我們都是因為 妳說我們是為人民發聲 我們是把關號妳記錯就發錯聲音啊院長 妳知道為什麼我上次問妳說妳眼鏡有沒有我 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3171.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3196.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
的意思嗎我問你說你的眼睛沒有我的意思說什麼是你說目中無人你的心目中沒有百姓你要跟百姓交代不是回去跟家人交代所以我的意思是這樣所以現在我要請我們我們卓院長你把手摸在你的胸口上你感受一下它是冰的還是涼的溫的 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3199.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3219.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
問的表示你還有良心所以呢我們希望你要去不要說你都是聽別人說你要自己來去所以我們希望說我進入政壇我當你是偶像所以說我今天更失望的是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3223.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3237.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
賴總統把整個國家的部會交給你來去管理讓你要去溝通但是現在呢把我們台灣變成國際的消化還有我們國安的問題還有我們賴總統的安危你有沒有考慮連我們的新增預算都搞不懂在我們的總統的身邊 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3245.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3246.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
這樣子你要去檢討啊不是要來去對應 我們要的不是對應質詢我們要的是有效果如何去把我們台灣的政策 服國立民三黨要合作 如何去把大家去融合這個才是我們要的行政院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3266.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3290.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
合作的前提是要把事實看清楚 如果委員一直不懂我們2800年有一直增進的預算 那我沒有辦法跟這樣合作啊現在更失望的是你眼睛也看不到 你心也感受不到我們有一句成語我不知道怎麼講 你自己去體會好 所以說我接下來呢因為我真的 接下來我要問你的我們在113年我們的 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3292.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3321.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
立法院已經通過三讀通過新住民基本法到現在我還沒有看到我們的職責所以我們明確我們有行政院的職責是要籌備我們的新住民發展署但是到現在我還沒有看到一個字所以我們行政的部門現在如何怎麼去執行因為我要公文過去跟內政部 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3322.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3334.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
移民署要但是到現在為止我們看到的是這樣會議紀錄是機密嗎經費也是機密嗎所以完全回我的公文是這樣可以看一下公文寫的是這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3344.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3369.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
所以說這個公文我們看到的就是說我在2月10號還有2月14號兩個發文進度在哪裡我沒有看到所以說我們部長可以回我一下說回復的態度還有回復這樣的問題是你指令的嗎所以完全我沒有看到說我們現在的進度在哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3370.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3390.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
報告委員我們到目前為止已經開過16次的會議裡面包括原則上開的整體的會議的時候是6次然後工作層級的會議是10次我們盤點出來包括內政部包括移民署包括新住民署還有相關的其他部會要跟著做改變的部分但是你們有用我的時間嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3393.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3401.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
這個是移民署給你的公文所以你有看過嗎 你知道嗎我們按照全責的分配全責的分配這個是機密嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3405.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3431.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
沒有機密吧 你講得頭頭是道嘛所以大家都在開會 都在這樣但是呢 我們已經立法三讀通過了沒依法行政嘛 你說依法行政嘛但是我們沒有看到啊 對不對連說你說籌備新聞 你說籌備處沒有去執行 怎麼會籌備呢連快一年了 九個月了 一個籌備處沒看見的東西 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3433.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3434.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
我們本來就有籌備處 籌備處本來有設立了嗎有設立了嗎 有成立了嗎 還是用說的籌備處本來就有了 是我們的常務指導所以什麼時候成立 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3448.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3467.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
我們新住民基本法在立法院通過之後我們的吳唐安吳長次就已經是籌備處在做執行秘書的工作然後由移民署但是我新聞裡面沒有看到所以呢我希望我們現在要的就是我看我是要的就是說設立一個專責機構 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3470.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3485.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
是不是行政機構的法定的責任呢因為我們法律已經通過了是否就是在此向我們新住民向大家承諾三個月內三個月內我們內政部完成新住民發展圖的籌備規劃對外公開 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3487.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3492.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
透明的有進度的我們想要的就是明確初步的組織草案或者紮構的設計但是我現在都沒有看到所以我們院長今天也在這邊也要幫新住民解決的問題而法律已經通過了 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3505.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3515.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
政府必須依法行政新住民在台灣已經落實已經生根希望我們就在這邊不只是生活為了整個台灣參加社會還有說我們也是國家的重要的一份子我們是家人不是敵人也是因為這樣子的機關我們希望透過這樣子的 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3530.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3537.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
可以為台灣去做一個連結做個溝通關於權益語言交易還有經濟的發展就業法律的等等我們希望我們是學以致用我們要求的就是可以在三個月內真的真正的去成立一個籌備處我們要求的是新住民發展署但是已經九個月了 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3559.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3570.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
從別處的開幕或者啟動都沒有我們也看不到你也沒有給我們所以呢你說你開會用什麼來開會用什麼部會來開會也是有限吧越開越不會叫做開會嗎對不對所以我們希望在 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3580.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3596.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
這一筆預算裡面我們也沒有看到114年也沒有看到所以我們希望你真正的去編列也真正的讓大家各個公務人員他有職責的工作關於這個工作你也要編列預算讓他們去執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3597.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3618.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
你完全沒有編列又叫他們去做所以就看不到一個效果出來所以我們希望我們院長我們跟我們的部長我們兩位跟我們全國的新住民去承諾說我們是不是在三個月內這個籌備處正式啟動怎麼樣去執行我們再來共同來去努力好嗎報告委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3624.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3637.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
行政院現在經費的結局籌備處成立是不會舉行盛大的開幕典禮的這個從來沒有過啦他說喔 上次那個內政部長說的他說他會在籌備處要去成立但是沒有公開 但是什麼時候成立啊要有一個日期 有一個承諾吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3648.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3654.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
有一個進度嘛,不然就是用講的啊,用講大家也會笑啊體育部的籌備處,妳也沒有參加過開幕典禮啊體育部的籌備處也開始了,但是也沒有開幕典禮啊對啊沒有,是他說他會有開幕啊所以我們不管有沒有開幕,我要的是要有何時何日,哪一天 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3672.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3698.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
是這樣而已 我們院長可以跟大家承諾嗎委員只是看不到內政部同仁在這裡的努力對新住民的權益各種他們已經研究了很多沒有否定他的努力才會去問他做了什麼嘛才要教他編列預算嘛所以這個籌備署他沒有成立又沒有編列預算什麼叫做否認啊沒有籌備署已經成立了你才是否認大家的努力我問你啊 我們2014年到現在已經四個月了 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3699.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3714.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
所以大家 你說凍結預算所以大家在做什麼 吹冷氣吃便當嗎所以你否定大家的功勞啊對不對 大家都有在做事情所以我們要進度 要進度不是只是一個紙上糖冰好不好 我願意不要誣衊公務員好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3719.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3728.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
我沒有忽略啊 我講的是說大家的功勞叫你不要否定大家的功勞要該給的預算 該要編的要編但是我們沒有看到所以我是要要你明確一個日期嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3738.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3765.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
又做又做 每天都沒做 我這個月我也做有很多籌備署的委員在工作就到民國幾年也不知道就是因為了一件事情 是這樣嗎我們行政院的行政機構是這樣子嗎一件事情做到沒完沒了這樣子嗎沒有嘛 對不對 我們要明確的一個時間跟日期還有關於我們放棄國籍的部分我們也希望我們內政部長這一邊 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3768.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3788.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
就是因為新住民他們不管YAMP一致同仁要放棄國籍像我們要放棄國籍才能領身分證若非要放棄那個戶籍你們要求的不是他們要求的放棄了才能領身分證不要到最後再來跟大家雙戰 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3811.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3816.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
我們要求公平平等一致同仁要求的是只有這樣子而已其他我們是很守本分的依法執政只要要求我們他進台灣一步我們就依法執政依政府的規定好 謝謝好 謝謝麥義貞委員子訊謝謝左院長 劉部長備詢 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3818.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3821.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
接下來請翁曉琳委員質詢林依儀委員請準備院長好有請游院長麻煩再請卓院長備詢對不起有請卓院長卓院長跟劉部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3852.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3880.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
董委員好院長好本席在這邊首先我要先感謝你對本席的質詢問政質詢還有我的所知相當的重視與關注我不是重視你的內容我是重視它影響國家的安全因為您的批評與指控讓社會大眾很好奇到底本席質詢的議題我問了什麼我的內容是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3881.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3910.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
所以呢就引來很多人來觀看我質詢的影片擴大我質詢的影響力那也讓民眾呢更加的了解什麼是政府造謠可以說是這個賽翁失馬焉知非福啦那麼我想請問院長您是否有看過我在3月26號質詢農業部部長陳俊記的影片我沒有現場看到但事後我了解整個狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3911.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3933.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
你沒有現場看到當然不會有時間現場看到但是我了解所有的狀況部長也有跟我做說明這個影片是短短五分鐘而且是在立法院的影音平台上面公開那麼全國的國人都可以看到在這一次的質詢當中我問農業部陳俊記 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3938.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
3954.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
說到底現在台灣萬一發生緊急狀況的時候糧食的安全儲糧還有民生必需品的供應站的規劃是如何請問我從頭到尾我有講我要索取暫時糧食儲備地圖嗎您問他這個供應站儲備站 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
3960.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
3980.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
如何規劃這個就是希望部長能夠給你一個答覆只是我們部長很機靈是 部長是部長很機靈嗎部長在當場的時候我覺得他是誠實的他知道作為一個部長這樣的資訊本來就是公開是 院長您太狡猾 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
3981.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
3991.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
我告訴您您今天連個短短5分鐘的質詢影片您都沒有看過你就在夏香宣講的時候亂造謠我什麼時候我有說過地圖這兩個字 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
3996.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
4024.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
我真的是很...供應戰我告訴你那是現在法規裡面就有規定的這個是在國防手冊裡面清楚揭露我今天如果不是透過我翁小玲委員的質詢告訴大家說我們還有一個辦法是在規範民生必需品短缺時期的配售供應戰我告訴你這個部分很多的老百姓是不知道的 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
4025.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
4051.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
根本不知道這是寫在國防手冊裡面的而很遺憾的沒想到連院長你也不知道由此可見你民進黨政府所說的什麼全民防衛任性這根本是說假的你們連宣傳都不知道你連相關的法規相關的問題都不知道在哪裡我更遺憾的是我更遺憾的是我剛剛說我現場沒有看到事後當然有看到你沒有看過我執行的影片就信口開河你就造謠 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
4054.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
4069.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
今天我是第三位质询委员从第一位委员第二位委员到我我相信之后还会有很多的委员会质疑卓院长您所领导的内阁你不仅仅是这个最会复义的内阁 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
4070.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
4083.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
我看現在也是最會造謠的內閣所以我今天很遺憾我原本以為院長您是看過我的質詢影片你才做這樣的發言但是沒有想到你連看都沒有看過然後你就你剛剛不是講說你沒有看過 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
4089.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
4112.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
我說現場我沒有看到事後我都知道我哪有說我沒有看到你有看過我的影片嗎?你沒有,你剛剛說過了好,不重要,現在你已經說了短片那麼多,你這個委員質詢的內容拿來短線那麼多,大家都看到了你在夏湘演講的時候,你有說我為什麼要這個所值 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
4113.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
4128.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
我為什麼要請農業部部長提供給我有關於林森必需品這個配售站的相關的資訊你當時說是委員想知道還是想讓誰知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
4132.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
4135.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
我在這邊很嚴正的告訴院長,我想讓誰知道?我想讓全國的老百姓知道,在發生緊急危難的時候,與民生有關的謎、謠、言等等這些重要的救命資訊,應該讓所有的老百姓知道我們要到哪裡去領取,而不是只有民進黨的特權。 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
4155.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4179.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
這個階級 全會才知道不是只有你民進黨領取黨政的這些人才知道我沒有戰略觀念是你沒有戰略觀念我剛已經說了這完全就是公開資訊你不要在那裡造謠你現在就是一心一意的想要把所有在野黨抹黑成中共同路人沒有想到真正的共諜就在你民進黨裡面啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4180.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4188.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
所以要說出來我以為你完全沒有戰略觀念我只有一句話全社會防衛就是要在適當的時候告訴人民什麼東西而不是在不適當的什麼時候讓對手知道我們有什麼事情請問院長您在3月29號我剛剛講了在民進黨的造勢場合當中你還對台下的民眾民進黨支持者很善情的說 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4205.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4233.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
未來翁曉琳委員所有的所資一律都要送行政院合訂之後才能夠送出您說過這句話吧前面還有一句話我說我沒有權利叫委員站在後面去但是我有權利讓委員的所資我這裡了解站在哪裡不重要重要的是說你是不是說過這句話我說過有嘛對不對你有說嘛對不對我的所資你都要看過啊然後呢你要合訂才能送出對吧是 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4235.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4260.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
請問院長你現在看我的鎖子嗎沒有為什麼沒有因為都不重要因為都不重要是嗎是嗎都不重要那你還說這句話你就是造謠嘛你就是你從頭到尾都是空口說白話從你一開始質詢我的影片到你現在所說的你哪一句不是空口說白話你只是很善情的告訴所有支持者說歐小林委員的鎖子你都要看好你的鎖子都在院裡面啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4261.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4279.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
都在院裡面都在院裡面院的哪邊你告訴我現在我所知的幾份都還沒有送到我這裡來沒有收到嗎那我告訴你了我到目前為止從你說了這句話之後我陸陸續續到上個禮拜我已經送給行政院19份了 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4281.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4295.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
沒有安全之餘的沒有安全之餘你都沒有安全紀律你這麼確定你根本連看到都沒有看過我告訴你你做不到的事情你就不要亂講所以由此可見你現在就是已經證明了一件事情就是卓院長說的話不可信你就說空口說牌的話你只會喊口號告訴支持者說要相信我們民進黨政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4308.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4328.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
要相信我們所做的 結果呢 你完全沒有做啊而且你根本就造謠聲勢這是我看到 你在對我的這些攻擊理念然後呢 我得出來的結果你說要所有的所知 你要看過我連我送了多少份 我送給哪個部會我告訴你根本沒有看過好 接下來我要問另外一個問題有重要的才會到我這裡來對 所以 我現在送的都不重要 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4336.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4354.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
都不是機密沒有國家安全之餘所以我之前問的那個就是國家安全機密我告訴你你趕快去看看吧你接下來可能還會做很多的上香宣講趕快去看看好好讀一讀我的所知我真的覺得你平常都在讀書不要再出這種問題我們就沒有那種顧慮我接下來我要問一個更實際的問題行政院院這個去年就已經說公教人員加薪3%114年的這個政府總運算我們已經也通過了 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4366.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4371.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
總統3月21號就公告了可以請您告訴我到底這筆錢什麼時候會入賬因為關於預算的問題我們之前還送過復議案在復議案之前我們當然不依舊預算內容現在講總統3月21號公告了嘛2014年總預算案已經公告了現在已經快要4月底了快5月了那3%的這個薪水什麼時候發嘛3%的薪水我們5月份就會發 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4396.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4418.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
確定那太好了看起來早上就已經決定了還是有效果的今天早上就決定了這個上個禮拜質詢之後不是我們今天早上就決定了強調這個軍公教很倒楣就是因為我們的雇主是政府所以可以持發薪水然後很多的什麼津貼烤雞這些都沒有發是因為三預算三到預算無法確定不要把責任貸到行政院身上來 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4423.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4450.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
委員始終要人民不相信政府委員始終要人民不相信政府但是你對法律解讀又是一知半解又要人民不相信政府是因為審預算三道讓預算沒有辦法順利進行請你不要質疑我不要質疑我一個法學教授法學博士的這樣的一個專業我跟你比我比你懂得多好接下來我要問一下但是你不懂的地方更多那麼賴清德 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4452.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4459.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
那麼他在公佈賴17條之後其實也引發國內很多的討論那麼將大陸認定為境外敵對勢力那麼我想這個可能要請陸委會主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4474.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4485.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
請教陸委會主委就是你知道目前到底我們有多少的台灣人在大陸工作這個就業居住生活 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4487.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4506.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
是 我們估計有很多這種算法不過按照我們主計總署最近核算的大概有40萬的台商跟他們的眷屬在中國大陸就是比較長期常住在中國大陸的好 那麼所以在那17條公布之後政府有想到這群人的處境嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4508.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4526.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
跟委員報告我們這個十七條是基於我們自己國家安全社會安定是面對中共對於我們威脅非常嚴重不管是軍機艦擾台不管是陳獨二十二條經濟脅迫外交打壓 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4526.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4549.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
一連串的認知作戰、滲透分化這些複合性的施壓非常嚴重所以我們是在堅定的維護台海的現狀跟國人的幸福安全那我接下來要問的就是看這個情況兩岸敵對緊張的情勢將不斷升高我想問一下民進黨政府有沒有撤回台胞的計畫跟措施 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4551.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4574.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
委員你們應該知道日本因為因應台灣有事的情況計畫所以他們之前就有公布六天之內要撤離沖繩居民到九州集三口縣現在我們有四十多萬的台灣同胞在大陸比較算是長期的生活 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4576.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4585.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
那如果說兩岸的敵對情況不斷的升高而且真的發生什麼問題的話政府有沒有做撤回台胞計畫準備委員我們講這個17項的因應策略剛剛所說的都是在積極的維護台海現狀 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4596.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4623.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
我現在是問你們有沒有準備我們也有把兩岸的各種的風險透過我們海基會也好陸委會也好告訴我們在大陸生活的包括台商相關的人所以整體來講你們看起來你們還沒有做任何的準備那接下來我要再繼續請教就是因為最近大家討論很多的就是陸委會他建置你們建置的國人赴陸港澳動態登陸系統 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4625.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4642.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
而這套登錄系統其實坦白說台灣的老百姓並不愛用我們現在到目前為止登錄的比例大概也就只有2.45%這是你之前所做的報告那我想請教主委就是說到底我們登錄這套系統之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4644.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4657.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
民進黨政府可以做什麼它的主要能夠發揮的效能是什麼是為了要幫助台灣同胞在大陸發生急難救助的時候你們可以幫得上忙是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4658.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4687.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
是 跟委員報告因為我們發現相當多的家屬來海基會 來陸委會報案說他們的家人失蹤了那同時呢也有很多人依照被法律限制他們的人身自由那這些呢都要我們知道個案再跟大陸去查核所以現在您剛說的這群人他們基本上都沒有登錄是都沒有登錄嗎 還他沒有登錄我現在想要質疑的就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4689.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4694.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
民進黨政府執政這些年其實與大陸方面的溝通管道是中斷的 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4695.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4698.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
官方的正式協商,由於他們有協商的前提,他們不願意跟我們持續的就既有的溝通聯繫機制,但是,用委員所說的, |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4720.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4735.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
但是登錄了之後你政府積極的作為在哪裡你到底有沒有能力可以去維護我們台高在大陸的權益我們就可以找到他家裡的相關的當事人當然也可以讓我們在大陸的這些旅遊人工作人員跟政府保持聯繫 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4750.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4757.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
如果有突發事件 意外事件 急難救助我們這個登錄系統可以連結政府的資源及時給好 謝謝翁小玲委員指揮 謝謝卓院長陸委會的備詢好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4776.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4781.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
接下來我們請登記第四位林怡錦委員之尋盧憲一委員請準備 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4809.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4819.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
謝謝主席有請卓院長內政部劉部長還有陸委會邱主委麻煩請卓院長內政部陸委會備選時間暫停跟林委員報告我們就是以三位為主因為我們硬體設備就這樣如果要第四位部長上來我們再請一個部長先下去好嗎就以三位為主好請咨詢好林委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4839.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4857.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
院長好院長首先還是先在我進入我今天準備的主題之前先請教您一下因為籃板亂山亂洞這個總預算案那導致很多機關沒有辦法正常運作所以我們最擔心的就是說很多的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4859.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4881.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
正常的這個預算沒辦法執行所以院長早上你有說要院裡頭要送出解凍案那我想同樣受到總預算案影響到的所謂的軍公教條新案不曉得政府這裡有什麼樣的措施我剛聽你回答翁曉琳委員有說今天早上你有說 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4882.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4909.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
五月五月就會入帳等一下再請您說清楚一點然後就是立法院上個月有否決我們行政院提出的復議案那也想要請教一下院長再來有什麼樣的救濟措施好謝謝顯然委員比較專心找上我們說過的話非常感謝那解凍部分不論他是否已經達到解凍的條件或是他設了很多特殊的解凍條件包括 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4910.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4931.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
第一項就是只要書面報告的這三項我們全部送出希望在最短的時間內能夠一律解凍讓行政部門好做事那麼至於軍公教同仁的加薪3%因為之前預算還有復義等等一直卡住對整個預算沒有辦法很順利的執行那現在已經到現在為止復義案也已經被被被被打掉對所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4933.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4954.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
包括約用人員的業務費用約用人員是邊在業務費用也被刪除了但是我們也現在來不及辦追加預算所以我們會先與軍公教人員這3%加薪也跟約用人員的這些費用一併的先運資會在5月份兩項都出來同時 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4955.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
4966.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
因為我們不是承認這樣的審查預算是合法合憲的所以行政院也會針對預算案跟財化法的修法同時我們會提出釋憲 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
4968.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
4996.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
好 謝謝院長的答覆那我想就進入我今天要跟您談的主題那首先我想上個禮拜五民眾黨突襲式的提出公投案那其中有一項就所謂的不在籍投票那這項提案其實很不負責任而且模糊不清那之所以說他不負責任是說投票制度的法制作業本來就是立法會員的分類工作 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
4998.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
5022.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
那把立委本來就應該做而且可以做那必須事事討厭的事情訴諸於公投那這很明顯就是特定的立委在偷懶在怠惰浪費國家資源那再來民眾黨的公投主文的模糊不清這個其實也是像上週五民眾黨這個提案內容他就提出說 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
5023.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
5032.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
菲律賓啊 印尼等這個國家他可以直接在台灣投票選他們的總統那有些國家還可以直接線上投票那他們說 身為這個科技島的台灣喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
5038.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
5058.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
應該建制移轉投票等不在籍的這種投票制度那民眾黨對於這種移轉制度的定義到底是什麼或者是不是電子投票對他們來說也是一種移轉投票還是說是不是在境外設投票所對他們來說也是一種移轉投票 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
5059.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
5081.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
這個我們都不清楚所以想要請教院長跟部長就是說我們有可能無視於中國對台灣的民主的威脅就貿然的開放電子投票甚至是境外投票嗎那是否應該對所謂的境外敵對勢力介入我國的選舉有什麼樣的警覺院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
5082.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
5104.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
我做原則性的報告第一個國家現在的處境所謂的境外的電子投票等等我們認為絕不可行因為受控於人太多我們有一個境外的敵對勢力他會對投票的行為產生什麼結果是無法用民主來衡量的所以境外的電子行為是絕對我們現階段不宜採納不宜考慮 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
5105.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
5133.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
那國內的部分移轉投票我們可以大家來討論但要有一個限制它必須一向是全國性的否則若是一個地方的選舉它都可以移轉投票那中選會地方選委會會忙死一個地方的選舉全國都在有移轉投票這個會造成很大的困擾再來全國性的我們要考量是否從對事的公投能夠開始來著想怎麼做對人的部分我想那個複雜性更高我只做原則性的報告如果細節下行 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
5134.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
5136.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
這個主委來說明沒關係我能理解這個院長的意思因為他們這個他們這樣他們公投主人是說各項選舉公投都要落實這個移轉投票那也就是說只要一個村長補選 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
5154.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
5169.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
可能就要全國動員辦理移轉投票所以這個耗費太多的國家資源所以剛剛院長已經表示很清楚我們如果對勢的公投或許可以考慮來做這個所謂的移轉投票那我想 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
5171.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
5190.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
南白是很奇怪啦就是說他們又要凍結中選會的預算然後又要叫中選會來擴大辦理所謂的這個業務所以這個其實是不曉得他們在想什麼啦那這部分主委你要不要補充好 謝謝委員的關心 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
5191.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
5207.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
有關於不在籍投票法制面的檢討其實行政部門一直都在進行長期以來主管機關內政部跟我們中選會的立場是一致的而且是一貫的 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
5209.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
5232.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
這一致跟一貫主要的精神剛剛院長已經提到了也就是我們認為不再提投票牽涉到的很多複雜的因素這些複雜的因素如果去影響到選務的穩定的話這個事情就非常非常嚴重了所以我們希望採取穩健的步驟也就是說從比較單純的對市的 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
5235.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
5251.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
這個公民投票來跨出第一步那麼累積一些實施經驗的結果之後再來進一步的對人的選舉是不是要採取採取何種方式再來做討論目前還是往這個方向在推進 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
5253.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
5268.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
至於具體的現在民眾黨所提出兩個公投案其中有一個跟不在籍有關係的因為他已經進入到立法院要交付公投的程序裡面了中選會是不宜表示意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
5269.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5293.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
好 我最後要倡議的是說與其這個突襲題所謂的不在即投票我們是不是好好的再度在這一屆我們再來落實所謂的跨黨派都有共識的18歲公民權那這一屆本席也有提案要下修這個投票年齡到18歲所以是不是請院長我們在這一屆我們再來努力共同推動18歲公民權 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5295.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5307.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
我們之前曾經推動過但是到最後很可惜未來我們繼續推動這也是符合我們民法規定一個人都成年了那麼希望他能夠青年的熱血參與整個國家的大事盡將來進行好 謝謝院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5312.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5330.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
另外我想根據反滲透法第二條中國就是境外敵對勢力那可是我們面對無所不用其極要併吞台灣的中國我們的立法院卻是採取一種門戶洞開然後毫無防備的姿態 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5331.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5358.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
藍白兩黨持續聯手阻礙立委赴中納館的法案拒絕向國人交代那我想到底那麼多的立委往中國跑那麼多的立委的助理也往中國跑那他們到底幹了什麼勾當那甚至我們現在有發現有些立院的助理或有些單位的幕僚也有涉及這個中國的間諜那我想 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5359.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5377.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
就針對事情來講我也不覺得民眾黨跟國民黨對於這件事情有什麼樣積極的作為反而看到他們是有點幸災樂禍沒有要就事論事積極透過立法的方式來防堵成為所謂的國家的破口 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5378.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5399.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
所以想請教院長是說面對台灣的這個國際處境那你怎麼看待立法院面對國安這樣的一個消極的態度又有什麼樣的呼籲另外想要請教主委是說像陸委會不斷的強調說現行附中納管本來就有包括立法院在內喔只是立法院從來不提報 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5400.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5429.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
那面對立法院拒絕配合這種狀態梁副主委在上個禮拜三的記者會有表示那乾脆就在立法那個明文上去規定那立委就是必須要附中納管的對象那我想要請教說陸委會到底要提這樣的修法的版本有沒有計畫那到時候會不會也把立委的助理也納入規範先請主委回答再請院長回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5431.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5456.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
謝謝林委員這個寶貴的質詢讓我們有機會跟您報告就是我們現行法律就各院跟各部會只要涉密的人員就應該提報到主管機關內政部 移民署來做申報許可那事實上我們除了大院之外其他的四院都有送涉密名單來 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5459.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5473.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
當然我們陸委會本於要落實兩項條例的精神我們會持續的跟大院來溝通也感謝您今天的質詢今天大院很多重要的長官都在現場我們會持續來努力 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5474.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5492.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
那至於你剛剛提到我們未來要如何的修法來規範從中央到地方包括我們未來的民選公職人員我們想他們賦入也要有必要的管理的制度我們要納管畢竟 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5494.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5515.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
公開化、透明化、向國民負責這是相當重要的而且我們整體社會都很在乎我們的民意代表去中國大陸做什麼樣的交流這個交流對台灣的安全有沒有傷害或是幫助他們都很想了解 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5515.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5541.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
所以未來包括您剛剛提到的除了立委之外立委助理因為他們的型態更加的複雜是不是納入規範我們也會一併來檢討那像今年2月本席有針對立法院拒絕副州納管的這件事情有行為給韓國瑜院長跟周外來副秘書長那周秘書長是怎麼回應他說立法院以及 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5542.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5569.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
立法委員似乎不是兩岸人民關係條例的第九條第四項所規範的涉密人員那周秘書長還說本院為合議制機關院長或委員是否從事涉及國家安全利益或機密業務除非有明文規範否則須有本院的合議方式來決議之 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5570.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5594.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
換句話說一件事情是不是機密要由立委投票比人頭決定這其實相當荒謬啦同樣是合議制的機關從監察院到地方法院大家都全力配合附中納管的規範唯獨立法院提出這種理由來拒絕遵守所以我想這個部分也透過這個機會跟院長提醒韓院長提醒 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5595.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5622.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
好 那另外我認為行政院在下週都會對公務人員提出一套機制安全查的機制行政院已經決定在下週就會提出一個機制了我希望國家安全不只是行政院的工作立法院也應該從自律跟法治化來著手所以我鄭重的呼籲韓院長跟我們一起努力的起步往前走把國家安全放一個最優先的地位 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5624.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5646.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
那另外本席再跟院長討論一下五一勞動節全面一致放假的議題這項議題我想我從上一屆立委的任期就不斷的倡議喔那如今經歷了三任的行政院長每一任的院長跟我探討也都不止一次勞動節全國一致性放假這個議題 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5647.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5671.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
那蘇院長的時代他是說有在研究要請主管機關那個全盤來考量那陳建院長第一次被我質詢的時候他說會來全面檢討第二次他質詢的時候就有鬆口說可以考慮全國一致性的放假到了卓院長您上任的時候那您是說會請人總繼續跟地方政府做 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5672.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5698.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
比較相對好的溝通那我想站在同樣的地點那再次面對我的相同質詢我想請教院長此時此刻五一勞動節已經快到了那您對這樣全國一致性的放假的態度是什麼那我想現在四月中那有不可能今年就來實施全國一致性的放假那如果還是有困難到底卡在哪裡那欠缺的共識到底要怎麼樣解決 院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5699.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5724.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
我們現在在討論過程當中不再拘泥於過去一百一十五天一百一十六天這樣的放假的日期的象限我們希望衡量整個國內經濟情勢的轉變跟勞資之間更和諧的關係其實我很願意這麼來說來做但是還是有一些包括勞方的意見我們都還要尊重資方的意見也要尊重今年或許有困難我們努力在明年 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5724.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5741.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
好 那我想繼續追問就是說明年2026的春節喔因為大年初四剛好碰到週五那其實春節只有放到年初三那如果初四這一天還要上班的話那隔天又要開始放假所以是不是如果要讓民眾 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5751.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5763.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
好 謝謝林議員的質詢謝謝左院長 各部會首長的備詢好 謝謝接下來我們請盧憲一委員質詢林月琴委員請準備 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5781.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5802.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
就是有請院長跟園民會主委麻煩請卓院長園民會請備選主委好院長好主委好 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5803.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5830.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
氣候變遷因應法已經即將邁入十年它之前是溫室氣體減量及管理辦法針對原住民的部分在第五條它有說就是為推動自然碳會政府應與原住民族共同推動及管理原住民族地區的自然碳會該區域內所增碳會之相關權益應與原住民族共享 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5831.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5852.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
涉及原住民族土地開發利用限制英語原住民族諮商並取得同意那我們現在看到川普政府已經退出巴黎協定也就是說他原本的國家對美國政府對國家的一個所謂的可能是從30億美金的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5853.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5877.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
支出呢他直接Cut down也就是說我們政府會不會因為這樣也對我們未來的這個發展呢做一些減緩或者說有一些其他的想法院長你可以回答嗎其他的想法也就是說美國他Cut down了他對這個方面的一個支出跟支持那我們政府是不是也會受到影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5878.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
5891.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
我覺得共同維護一個乾淨可以永續的地球到底是這一代人類共同的可是當你付出很多沒有實際的實質回報的時候你會不會想要減緩這方面的支出 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
5892.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
5920.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
我們照原有的步驟繼續向前進OK那我想先知道原民會主委的想法就是說我們針對創造就業機會我知道在環境部這邊他有想要培育人才綠領人才那他說他要預計在北中南一年要大概今年要訓練3500人那3500人裡面我不知道環境部有沒有跟會會去討論說如果按照人口比例我們原住民 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
5920.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
5940.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
裡面受教受訓練的一些專業人才是不是應該至少要70名到105名之間那你這個人才的這個培訓計畫裡面你有沒有被知會好謝謝委員我想這個人才的培育有關這個岩箱這個碳會的問題我們這邊有已經也跟我們自己的族人 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
5940.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
5964.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
做超過10場以上的說明會我們也會繼續來辦那比如說我是一個鄉長我要到原民會去拜託是到縣政府去說我以後要做這方面的產業那我是要跟哪一個單位來說明因為我沒有看到專責單位原民會的專責單位在哪裡我們在經建處那你知道我們現在原住民的一個燙會的規模大概是多少嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
5965.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
5989.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
我們現在還沒有 我們現在就是希望說趕快因為部落都還不清楚這個事情我知道 所以因為已經十年要即將這個頒布法令要十年了可是我每次一問就是說還沒有一個一致性還不知道該怎麼弄那我剛剛又查了一些資料其實至於碳盤查到現在還沒有一致的規定所以環境部長這邊也在三老金他希望在近 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
5989.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
6006.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
至少在今年可以成立新的一個所謂的碳盤廠基準然後每三年更新一次那這個部分你們會這邊有備資會嗎有 我們在一頁我們已經成立淨碳的這個永續發展這個小組那我們也送出這個原住民 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
6007.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
6028.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
足經濟永續發展計畫的草案我們希望這個推出去之後我們研擬之後這個草案我們會繼續來做之前在屏東縣當過處長是也長期在屏東縣那我想知道說如果就屏東縣那個碳的規模我們原向的大概可以在利益上面你覺得可以分配到多少資源 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
6029.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
6050.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
現在要精算還不曉得但是這個有一個重點這個不影響到我們的淨化補償就是你在淨化補償一樣可以做這樣的東西我是想幫園民會爭取資源所以我才會這樣算你這樣算的話是不是因為有一個叫做管理基金就是衛生氣體管理基金以後這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
6051.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
6080.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
你在盤查盤算的時候在整個碳會的一個機制裡面你至少要知道說有多少基金會到中央這邊來啊你以後要去分配的這些資源要到哪裡去啊所以這個部分你是不是應該先去了解我現在大概有看到農業部財政部所轄台灣吉寶結算所針對原鄉碳會或是企業投入ESG已經有建立了相關的平台建置了那其實ESG最被人詬病的是什麼你知道嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
6082.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
6099.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
大部分就是他的透明度還有他的票率也就是說其實他並沒有做出相當的投資可是他卻寫了這樣子的一個計畫出來還有他的透明度他認為他應該是多少可是我們一般的人無從得知他的計算結果 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
6100.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
6117.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
所以就簡單來講我希望主委你自己應該很清楚去了解他們在做這些所謂的試算跟原先的這些ESG的計畫裡面我覺得你應該要主導來掌握 可以嗎可以 我非常感謝委員這樣重要的提醒 透明度 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
6118.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
6144.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
以及他整個事實上的方式我想原民會一定是跟大家關係最密切的原民會也可以同時請環境部來支援他做很多這樣的工作這就對我剛才講的溫室氣體的管理基金所以我希望他的用途上面能夠明定一些方向因為之前的法律裡面並沒有針對這個法案做修正或者是增加所以我在第33條裡面今年提了一個修正案也就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
6144.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
6172.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
33條第13款希望在補助及獎勵失業與原住民地區推動自然資源與生態多樣性的維護教育及宣導事項這些辦法是由中央跟原民會去訂定的這是之前是沒有的所以希望主委能夠先了解這方面的一個情境跟我們立法的一個想法好不好好然後最後就是說我希望請教卓仁泰院長說原住民地區的自然攤會 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
6173.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
6179.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
又或是與企業合作一同推動ESG方面我們原住民委員會做了哪些建樹 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
6181.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
6205.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
剛剛主委有說明過他們辦了10場的說明會有300多人來參加我發覺陸續還會再舉辦而且剛剛所提到成立一個淨零永續的發展推動小組在這個小組裡面會擬定各項的一個工作的要項同時原住民經濟永續發展的發展計畫115年到118年他們也會陸續的提出我想針對原住民族 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
6206.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
6213.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
在台灣很多好山還是好水的地方我們既然希望他維持就應該有能力讓他自己能夠維持所以提供給他更多的這樣的資源 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
6214.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
6237.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
我希望有一個APP比如說我是一個一般民眾我想知道說我對自然攤位的貢獻比如說我身處在屏東縣我就會知道說屏東縣的自然攤位的資源是多少那如果我是一個鄉長我要知道說我這個鄉可以掌握的資源是多少我覺得至少在以後在這個資訊的一個透明度要讓大家知道才會知道說我作為一個個人作為一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
6238.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
6247.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
一廂之長我能夠做的努力在哪裡可以嗎謝謝再次謝謝委員的提醒這個非常重要第二個議題就是說針對我在114年4月10號收到園民會的公文首先先謝謝園民會願意補助70萬可是他們實際的需求是92萬1600元那我想知道說你們的難處在哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
6262.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
6283.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
納瑪夏區公所要協助區公所的蒸化邊的工作我跟委員報告這個機會不多啦是不多但是就是說不管是哪一個不是多不多的問題因為他延宕了很久他如果有需要我們都會核實來協助就是說這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
6285.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
6300.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
那麼下這個部分這個早在去年應該是吳立豪委他就有提出來那我們每一年光是平均補助就超過了525萬都有協助各鄉的困境 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
6301.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
6320.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
那當然就是那個時候孔賢傑七長他來他也要我們來協助那我們想說我們也很快的就是說他要的經費很快就給他補充短缺的22萬要公務員去承擔嗎不是不是不是我想我有跟他講好如果說還是不夠我們還是願意來協助啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6320.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6348.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
好所以就針對這個問題原鄉公所所謂的原住民鄉公所在振化邊保留地所謂的私有的負帳啊分割經費啊這些部分你們有沒有做每年的一個說經費預算的一些編列不然每年如果遇到這些問題你們要怎麼去哪裡找錢我每一年有編這樣的在圖管處都有編這樣的經費類似有公所提出來對啊可是你還是沒有達到他們要的92萬1000是你只核定了70萬給他 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6349.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6374.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
其實我跟委員講 他講92萬可是我願意協助到這樣 他已經應該是他就是在跟我講說可以如果真的不夠有什麼關係我還是會再協助到因為各鄉都會遇到這個問題這是剛好是納馬下來文 我們來幫忙這樣好 第二個就是 第三個就是我們國立原住民博物館這個進度啊我再追蹤一下我想知道他現在的用地取得有沒有問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6375.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6390.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
優適期的沒有問題了現在我們的籌備處也已經成立了那現在籌備處未來會在高雄市政府的隔壁那現在正在做裝潢現在也正在做一些這個內部設施的一個整理那目前人 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6391.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6408.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
人是在暫屆文化延期的辦公處所那很快我們的土地都已經起的我們很快現在在下半年度我們就會先推出一個驗警館驗警館就會推出來以後他們裡面的工作人員是不是已經在原住民特考裡面的 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6410.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6432.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
名額裡面在招生 或者是說有在訓練了有 我跟委員講沒有辦法一下子就補齊啦那當然就至少目前的人力已經有到二分之一了 一定有二分之一那興建進度呢 至少有八個人啦怎麼時候可以動土啊籌備處沒有想說要怎麼樣的大興投目因為畢竟它是一個籌備處而已 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6434.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6457.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
那等到就是說縣警館如果到一個就是說要動工那個時候我們再來跟外界來做說明籌備處我想其實是主要是行政工作啦還有一些作業的一個沒有必要去做完工的時間大概是什麼時候大概一年半之內那個縣警館就會我說整個國立原住民博物館大概什麼時候可以蓋好 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6458.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6476.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
全部 全部沒有那麼快 全部至少你至少因為這個是14公頃的土地很多人想要去那邊工作可是他不知道說到底是什麼時候會遙遙無期啊萬一他想應徵可是他覺得說這個可能我到老都還沒有看到我想知道到底什麼時候可以往工啟用啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6476.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6492.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
我們當然越想越快越好但是這個期程從一百二十三年到一百二十年那當然這個我們希望能夠加速蓋一個博物館面積又那麼大而且這個計畫是逐年來編列不是說一次就到位 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6492.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6510.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
沒有辦法確定一個時間表如果今天已經40歲了我想好好發揮我的對原住民文化的一個專才結果我60歲了要退休了這個博物館還沒有蓋好有些人有生涯規劃嘛所以你至少要讓我們原住民一些專業人才知道說我有沒有機會去那裡上班 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6511.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6533.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
6年到7年我想我們想就讓他營運就能夠也就是說30歲的人左右可以去想這些事情是吧本來很多的工程的施作是一定要時間的我們進入下一個主題就是說其實常常看到原住民保留地長期受到一些擔保或者是設定 借民登記這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6534.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6549.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
我知道之前的我們的圖管處的處長就是現在副主委在這部分他有一些了解那他說他會去盤查去盤點我們全國原住民保留地到底有多少比例是被屆民登記被設定的你們現在有報告書可以出來了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6550.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6579.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
我跟委員報告所以我們為什麼要提出原住民保留地就是說它的條例的一個修正因為我們不希望這樣的事情一直在發生可是你要掌握然後掌握以後要如何去解決然後如何去預防現在我們要發展原住民的經濟可是我們的土地常常是林業用地 農牧用地國土保安用地可是我們要去如何提高我們或者是說讓我們供股銀行去成 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6580.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6594.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
去承作他的貸款這個部分你們做了哪些努力目前就是說我們公股八大銀行他們也有提出來那麼他們更希望就是說是不是有這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6595.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6616.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
有這個辦理這個個人保證業務的一些這個那個中小企業是不是也來協助但是我們現在一直在想這個八大公股銀行如果可以幫我們做那是最好那我們目前也在研擬這個原住民保留地貸款信用的保證草案那我們希望今年會完成嗎今年會完成嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6617.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6643.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
我們一直在跟這個八大公股這個銀行希望要嘛就大家看是哪幾家可以先做但是他們也提出一些修正計畫我們願意再補一直在 我們現在還在很快 已經在後期的討論了我知道現在內政部委託不動產估價施工會進行原住民保留地的估價方式的探討那報告書出來了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6644.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6668.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
目前還沒有我們尊重還是希望我們動作還是能夠快一點因為很多人都是嗷嗷待不希望他的土地有價值而不是永遠都在政府在想在想辦法可是辦法一籌莫展最後就是說關於我們巡山園也就是說我們的高山巷島協作園這個部分其實每次天災的時候或者是需要 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6669.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6691.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
像玉山這個步道需要有人去管理的時候或者是說有些人發生山難需要去救助的時候其實都是這些人在工作那我想知道說到底有沒有對他們一些待遇的一些保障或者說至少讓他們在投保的時候商業保險能夠不要因為他的工作性質是危險的而拒保所以希望 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6692.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6705.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
主委這邊把高山協作員翔導這邊納入一個高危險也就是說雖然是高風險可是是政府協助的一個工作項目好我們會特別要求我們的這個救護員好謝謝盧縣議委的資訊謝謝主委長原名會的備訓接下來我們請 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6722.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6734.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
登記第六位陳寅委員諮詢書面提出請行政院書面答覆並列入紀錄刊登公報在接下來請登記第七號林月琴委員請諮詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6750.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6757.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
謝謝主席好那麻煩我們的卓院長跟劉時芳部長麻煩請卓院長內政部備選林委員好院長部長早那今天要來跟你討論一個我們的 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6774.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
6787.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
通學環境的一個課題這是我從民間就一直在關心然後進來立法院一年多也一直在關注的一個議題希望今天透過這樣的一個總質詢事上是可以針對現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
6789.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
6813.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
行政部門在努力的一個計畫案能夠更有知道一些困境之後是不是可以有更有一個方向去調動所以首先先問部長首先先問院長就針對於我們7到15歲的交通傷亡的狀態你覺得是有改善還是沒有改善包括學童包括青少年的事件就7到15歲 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
6815.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
6841.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
我們在行人的永續提升行人安全道路上面針對學校也對重要路口都有進行相關的工作那我當然希望降低但是目前降低的幅度應該是不大是像我們部長都有院長也充分掌握了那現在兒少的主動出行的這樣交通事故事實上目前看起來事實上 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
6842.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
6866.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
去年事實上是歷年最高而且尤其是自行車事實上是成長大概在五年前事實上成長了四成所以就想要問的是當然我知道就是說如果是主動出行還涵蓋行人跟其他的交通運據不過如果從行人來看的話我覺得還是要肯認我們的院長跟部長的努力的確提出了一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
6867.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
6892.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
相關的對應措施讓行人的傷亡事實上是7到15歲事實上是下降的不過當然也因為學上放學如果總體看上放學的數據事實上是還是高的所以我們就要來看就是說你們最近在一直在提出來的就是通學環境的改善計畫在通學改善計畫當中想問部長是不是了解到有一些問題事實上 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
6896.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
6907.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
你能不能充分掌握到有沒有一些非常謝謝林委員對於兒少尤其是交通安全的關心而且是長久以來的一個志工的工作我們非常的佩服 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
6908.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
6936.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
其實在院長的指導之下我們有一個永續提升人行安全計劃內政部所負責是260億交通部是140億但是我們現在所提的永續人行安全計劃對於學校周邊的部分僅注重於由地方政府所提上來的譬如說學校的周邊可能是一個四方形但是我們可針對這個門口後門或者側門的部分它可能是一個漏巷可能是一個不是有 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
6937.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
6956.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
大車子要經過的地方那這個部分的地方政府沒有提上來的時候呢我們上這個交通部或者是內政部呢在提供這樣子的一個改善計畫就忽略掉那這個可能是我們未來要改善的方向我想部長也很充分掌握雖然上來的時間還沒滿一年可是都充分掌握 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
6956.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
6984.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
我有三個課題想來跟部長做一個討論他好像都想改革只是看起來沒有人想要改變而且學區韓規韓可是沒有法規我覺得改善的進度事實上有一點慢為什麼這麼講首先我想問跟部長來看一下這張圖也就是說左邊跟右邊哪一個這是雲林縣古坑鄉的人行道的爭議哪一個是改善前哪一個是改善後 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
6989.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
7012.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
看起來沒有看起來沒有看起來右邊有改善但是呢這裡面的指引呢不是很清楚實際上左邊是上市改善前可是他也不能講改善前是你們補助經費之後他改善成改善前可是後來民眾反對又改回來原來的樣子叫做改善後所以那筆錢簡直就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
7013.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
7042.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
沒有意義就是它等於事實上是效果有限而且所以我覺得很重要的就是所謂的社會溝通所以我才會講說大家好像都要改革可是好像沒有人要改變民眾普遍對現狀的改變是有疑慮的有可能事實上是認知錯誤為什麼講認知錯誤甚至有民眾提出來說為什麼限縮我們的車道然後要鋪設人行道那這樣行車很危險我覺得這種錯誤的認知使得他們去阻擋甚至 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
7042.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
7059.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
有時候民代里長跟議員都出面反對的時候常常做到一半就會像我們剛剛看到雲林縣股根鄉最後又改回來原來樣子那前面花的錢不是都是浪費的嗎甚至第一線的學校都會遇到什麼困難比如說 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
7060.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
7083.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
被謾罵或者甚至被黑衣人包圍的我們就會收到這樣子的一個訊息可是我們看日本的一個經驗來看的話他們非常重視不同單位和利害關係人的溝通跟合作所以他們會用工作坊、意見交流的會議甚至透過問卷調查 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
7084.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
7098.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
然後來共同制定相關的計畫然後甚至會有所謂的交通安全道路計畫然後滾動式的去檢討甚至有去入校宣導甚至會有去做稽查 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
7099.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
7124.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
台灣不是沒有為什麼因為我們在113年5月1號就通過了行政條例第6條也賦予了一些責任說你要針對環境調查第7條也賦予了說要跟當地的民眾好好的去去做溝通甚至有一個範例可以依循的就是台南台南事實上是公民團體呢跟政府一起配合台南人本 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
7124.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
7152.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
交通協會一直在宣導說你做人行道呢就送車位你還是有車位不要用車位來阻擋人行道的鋪設所以才能重得市場就是一個很好的範例所以不是沒有一個好的例子在做所以也期待是不是可以針對於這樣子的第一個困境裡邊可以去考量嗎中央應該輔導地方政府來針對協助提案單位 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
7152.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
7171.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
還有呢當然我覺得要做一些社會溝通了解民眾的需求到底是什麼他們的反對的聲浪到底又是什麼而且希望能夠透過工程設計跟兼顧人形設施的那個設置跟停車的需求來達到大家有共識之後然後去布設才不會像 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
7171.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
7195.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
雲林縣谷坑鄉這樣子的一個反覆最後沒有解決問題那我也想問部長有沒有機會因為大家都沒有看過好的範例可不可以優先補助我們的改善效益高且執行可行性的地點比如說六都找個兩個地點示範地點讓民眾感受到好的地方的時候他們很多家長才會想說我也想要比照這樣辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
7196.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
7216.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
我不知道部長或院長這邊可以承諾嗎謝謝委員我想委員你提供一個非常好的觀點就是說光是工程設施的改善或者是光是地方政府跟中央政府的合作沒有辦法滿足大家對於人行道的安全尤其是校園安全上的顧慮所以你倡議希望能夠加入所謂的公民參與 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
7217.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
7239.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
或者是加入志工團體那如果說有很好的案例的話目前我們會提供六個直轄市政府先辦理兩處通學區的改善示範計畫那如果有機會的話我們也請委員一起來參與就是說裡面的學校的家長團體或者是外面的有關於交通安全的不一定是只有警察或者交通警察或者是村里長 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
7240.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
7255.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
他們都可以加入讓大家一起共同來討論怎麼樣保障校園的學童的通學的安全這是我們最大的希望謝謝部長可以做這樣的承諾因為你們已經很努力做只是說我覺得線維問題還是要去解決讓民眾的反彈聲浪減少的話才有機會 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
7256.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
7281.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
第二個困境就是說我們好像講學區那也可是學區到底是什麼可是我們看這張圖的話我們現在做法就是放一個牌子告訴大家學區到了甚至我覺得在看這個牌面的時候我覺得不太可思議的地方就是說我們的數字線還是50到60那在國外的話這是不可思議的狀況所以我們的通學區通學道路通學路廊江部跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
7282.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
7300.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
我們的內政部有一些定義在可是如果走到地方的話我覺得有點讓我們覺得傻眼什麼通學項竟然還只是沒有給人行道只是一個通學項來封閉時段根本沒有辦法解決孩子的問題他們上放學的一個困難所以學校呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
7300.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
7318.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
可能基層都會是我覺得孤軍奮戰的結果那目前全額補助的區目前大概都是申請的都是學校四個圍牆周邊有人行道那如果跨出這個四個周邊的跨出去的只有占到0.8%只有 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
7320.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
7348.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
台中南投跟苗栗三岸而已那99%就會是這個樣子的狀況根本就是跨出學校門口以外我就沒有路可以走了問題這個不會讓孩子發生交通事故嗎也是會嘛所以我們來看南韓南韓事實上花了28年他們在1988年到2016年他們做了幾件事把學區的定義清除 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
7350.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
7367.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
還有呢標誌標訊否學校讓人家很清楚不是像我們只有一個檯面讓人家非常清楚的知道說學區到了還有個數限30那他們花了28年我認為台灣大概沒有辦法有這麼多年因為我們的出生率是一直下降 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7368.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7388.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
去年都只到13萬5我相信院長跟部長都有充分掌握可是他們下降96%非常難所以我也希望說我們有能不能可以也像他們一樣所以希望比照比照我們的我不敢講說要到韓國或到日本可不可以在學校為中心點 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7390.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7401.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
擴散150公尺不用到300韓國是300日本是500所以日本的傷亡事實上是更低的所以我們就希望說可不可以有一個清楚的定義學區然後有否學校的標誌標線跟樹線 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7404.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7434.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
我不知道部長或院長怎麼看尤其是院長這邊謝謝委員對孩子的關心我想這個學區的法治化的話恐怕不只有內政部包括交通部還有教育部還有地方政府因為中小學的主管機關是地方政府都要一起來討論那您所點到的問題其實我們大家都願意來做可是現在會碰到現實的困難就是越舊的學區人口越多就會像您剛所PO出來在新北的地區它可能一出去就是快速道路 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7434.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7455.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
那這部分呢我們在工程改善上面或者是說在學區的這個定義上面怎麼樣做一個比較滾動式的檢討讓我們有機會跟這三個部會一起來處理學區法治化的問題那確保那個通學的安全比較重要我相信因為院長應該也在院務會都有討論我知道也很努力所以我還是希望能夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7456.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7474.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
有一個進一步的示範區出來之後讓大家廣為人知之後可以比照另外困境3就是改善的進度我覺得還是太少太慢為什麼講因為為什麼112年的改善計畫到現在還有36%的工程還是沒有完工的狀態 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7476.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7493.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
為什麼會這麼慢原因是因為我覺得縣市政府好像是總機的一個工作因為他既然是做總機呢他就是把很多問題都丟給提案的學校那提案學校來做那他們寫的東西學校不是一個工程單位他寫的東西都不符合事實上 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7493.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7512.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
我們公共工程裡邊要改善的這種樣態那最後就會是什麼我們的國土署也很辛苦省的案子還要一直來回來回溝通然後溝通到好的時候要做的時候做到一半又是我剛剛提的里長議員反對的時候又改回來又來變更計畫所以就會變成速度上是慢的 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7512.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7539.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
那可是地方政府不是沒有資料喔地方政府本來就充分掌握學校周遭人行環境的狀況所以可不可以要求未來標案未來他們要來申請案子的時候要求地方政府要拿出這些數據拿出他這些東西來作為一個依據然後另外一個是不是可以要求拜託一下就是說可不可以讓我們的中央是不是可以提供學校 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
7540.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
7563.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
一些交通改善的一個方向在而且也期待能夠公民團體一起參與公民團體可以做的一件好事情就是說他可以去做社會溝通來一起協力我覺得應該要善用公民團體的一個他們的能量那2021年我們的CRC國際審查委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
7563.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
7588.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
他很了解台灣的問題他說政府已經採取許多措施肯認我們解決了交通事故的死傷問題包括交通安全教育跟建立校園的停車區可是他也認為 委員會也覺得說建議中央政府要採取行動來確保地方層級在執行相關法規的時候來確保我們兒少對交通事故跟運輸政策制定的實質參與 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
7590.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
7594.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
明年我們要交第三次國家報告了這是2021年國際委員來審查的結論性意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
7596.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
7625.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
可是明年我們要交國家報告的時候我們怎麼去回應他的確提出來說台灣的兒少交通傷亡實在是太高了所以有效的措施才能夠解決問題所以我們希望能夠有一個跨單位的合作那當然我想說部長也會覺得因為學校要地方政府那我覺得可能中央也要來促使我們的地方政府能夠積極的協助不是地方政府都沒有責任就把它丟到 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
7625.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
7648.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
給一個學校那這樣子學校通常他做不了事情所以縣市政府才是實際的執行單位要確認這個角色還有要強化跨單位的合作那跨單位可能他的公務局或者是他的交通局要來協力這個學校而不是把它丟給一個學校這樣子的話學校大部分沒辦法做事而且教育單位要來彙整路徑 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
7649.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
7673.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
學校周遭的那個路徑因為學校沒辦法取得這些資料可是江部有一個很好的道安資訊平台是可以得到的那我也希望部長這邊是不是可以調整補助計畫的程序引進交通工程的專業來支持還有外部的支援譬如說公民團體交通的專業當然有引進我三項跟委員報告第一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
7674.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
7703.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
因為學校周遭一定需要地方政府合作很多的鼓勵取得等等第二個 我們原來規定原來的計畫是四百個學校一年完成兩百個目前這傷害有增加我會把這個完全結束第二個 新的學校周遭的這個安全政策我要求再增加一下一定要延伸到一個足以安全的選舉動盪還可以把這部分做得完美謝謝 非常好所以去年的彰化新的彰化核爆已經下降了那後面 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
7708.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
7727.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
好 謝謝林月琴委員質詢謝謝卓院長內政部長的備詢 謝謝接下來登記第八位王逸川委員質詢書面提出我們請行政院書面答覆並列入紀錄刊登公報 報議會現在我們休息十分鐘十分鐘之後我們繼續進行質詢 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
8388.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
8416.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
現在我們繼續開會接下來請高津素梅委員請質詢韓院長早安現在我們要先請園民會的主委曾主委麻煩請園民會備詢卓院長先休息一下但是也請你好好聽一下我對曾主委的質詢好嗎謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
8423.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
8448.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
委員好曾志偉早安早在今年的3月12號您率領你的主管來我的辦公室做業務報告我看得出來您是有心要做事而且有心要改變但是很遺憾的是您身邊的幕僚恐怕正在拖累整個人民會因為他們做出很多錯誤的決策甚至還發布了一些問題百出的新聞 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
8449.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
8470.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
而首先我現在要先跟你談的是,我看到園民會的第一個問題,就是人力流動率非常的驚人。在新莊聯合辦公大樓的不僅僅只有園民會,還有文化部跟治安署。園民會裡面有198名的正式人員,短短的10個月裡面,異動了45個人。 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
8472.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
8500.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
這將近四分之一耶我們對比文化部、職安署他們都是以內部升遷為主而原民會呢都是申請外調這高達了29個人超過了六成啊好可怕 你看這個數據沒有而今年的1月行政院提出的霸凌案件報告裡面也大聲的疾呼要落實總統改變職產文化杜絕霸凌的政策指示 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
8501.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
8516.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
要確保公務體系能夠健康的運作同時也承諾行政院院長要要求各機關全面清查是不是存在霸凌的行為並且要迅速調查跟依法處理請問主委 園民會 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
8518.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
8536.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
這麼多人的離開這代表原民會的職場環境是讓人待不下去的大家不是升遷而是紛紛的逃離請問一下你是不是有全面清查調查是不是有職場霸凌或者是管理上的問題好 謝謝委員的指教 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
8536.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
8559.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
我要跟委員講 延民會的流動力這麼高 不是現在才有我來了以後才知道 因為延民會沒有宿舍那我們大部分都是從延鄉來的我們的族人甚至於他們在考試填字驗的時候 也不太喜歡填延民會因為這嚴重影響到他的生活主委 我在立法院已經23年了 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
8561.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
8578.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
第一次園民會流動率那麼高您剛剛講的問題是長年存在的問題這十個月當中還不到一年所以你是不是在這邊承諾我要回去調查一下可不可以一個月之內給我一些你們調查的書面報告可以嗎可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
8578.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
8606.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
好 謝謝現在我要跟你談業務執行你們荒腔走板的例子比比皆是喔我們就拿禁法補償這個問題來說去年呢本席在這兩次的院會執行裡面你一再的護航說禁法補償的公務與預算不足可以用綜合發展基金來支應可是事實是這樣嗎沒有貴會提出的最佳預算的申請你們清楚的寫說 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
8607.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
8622.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
需要将近24亿元而我在今年也查了三月份最新的报表我们的基金扣掉负债之后可以动用的现金剩不到14亿这是根本不够用的 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
8622.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
8651.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
您知道嗎但是沒關係主委您應該知道11月7號我們的行政院長他承諾他的錯誤他要用追加預算來補救淨髮補償請問一下主委今年9月我們的族人可以如期領到一公頃6萬塊的淨髮補償金嗎謝謝可以可以嗎可以我們有提出追加這個預算就是補足那個你已經提出追加預算了嘛但是院長已經核定了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
8652.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
8666.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
目前還沒有但是我相信院長會謝謝您希望您的回答院長聽到了我們再來看一下剛剛三讀通過的園民會組織法裡面有關族群委員無脊植的議題園民會你們發新聞稿說 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
8669.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
8694.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
族群委員名單不是主委你一個人的一舉一擲之決定而是依照各界公推還有透過審查的結果實際上根本沒有公開推薦的程序啊絕大部分的族人也不清楚知道我們族群委員的功能是什麼最後我們看到的就是一片綠油油立委的助理國家養另外呢 族群委員的人事費 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
8695.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
8724.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
我們希望他改聘正式的公務員的這個議題上園民會你們又發新聞稿說這個決議是沒有法律效力的沒有辦法實質保障主任的權益但是主委你看一下人事行政總署在1月6號發函給你們園民會要要求你們配合修法然後請你們評估人力的需求並且要循程序函報行政院 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
8725.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
8731.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
主委这是你没有无视法律呢还是你的幕僚在欺骗你给你错误的讯息 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
8732.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
8760.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
委員我跟妳報告因為刪除掉了這個族群委員那當然對我們的一些行政量能真的是沒有我現在跟你講的是我們刪除了這些無給值的這些預算之後把這個錢拿去改聘為正式的公務員而且我們的附帶決議也這麼說可是呢你們卻說這個是沒有法律效力的可是人事行政總署已經告訴你們啦要求你們配合啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
8761.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
8782.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
主委所以你們喔真的實在是你要進入狀況我很擔心你的幕僚都在欺騙你喔不是欺騙啦委員我跟你講再來再來再來我們來看一下員警吧主席委員的這個聘任從以前就是這樣子的進行嘛主委主委人事總處已經告訴你了他是有法律效力的啦所以請你們園民會要配合修法看到了沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
8783.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
8807.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
我們也有配合請就說有一些我們希望已經請你配合修法了再來我現在跟你談的是原基法原基法在一百零四年增訂了第二之一條要要求設置部落公法人可是民進黨執政這八年來申不出一個部落公法人現在你們園民會申出了一個叫做什麼公法人事辦計劃 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
8808.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
8828.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
然後我們看到這個事辦計畫的草案,目前規劃是每一個部落要給他一百萬,人事費就佔了六成六十萬,然後業務費佔了四成四十萬。請問一下主委,部落公法人事辦計畫是不是有限定部落的數額? |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
8830.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
8856.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
沒有 我跟委員報告為什麼要有事辦這個計畫因為我來之後我想講了這麼多年都沒有辦所以原住民的支持一直是停頓我希望說找幾個部落我們負責任的來找幾個部落為什麼要找這幾個部落是有原因的我們認為這個部落不管是村長代表部落會議的主席還有地方的核心幹部可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
8856.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
8885.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
比較能夠有一些共識所以我們希望找這幾個部落做得成功之後讓其他的部落也來看主委我聽到您的說法了我覺得您的說法是沒有辦法說服族人的啦因為你們沒有公開說明沒有公開堆建沒有公開審查這是不是又是一個綠油有事半板然後呢部落應該是由下而上不應該有園民會你們密室圈定啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
8885.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
8910.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
所以我在這邊要求你要公開決策公平然後建立民主參與跟資訊的透明機制讓全國七百多個部落都有公平競爭的機會畢竟人事費六十萬業務費四十萬這是一百萬不少的金額對部落的族人來說它會是另外一個人事的安排不是嗎好接下來我要再跟你談一算 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
8914.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
8935.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
這確實不是利有有的部落那請問一下你現在核定的這些部落他們有公開說明嗎現在核定的部落有幾個我們有下去跟他們做溝通做說明我們700多個部落裡面你是怎麼樣公開跟大家來說呢部落是如何來跟你原民會申報計畫呢這些你都沒有說明啊好啦 接下來我要跟你談預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
8937.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
8964.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
在114年度的预算里面 原民会你们新闻稿又对外说什么对于推动族语教会的一亿一千万元的预算要采取冻结的措施这严重冲击到部落发展看到新闻稿我真的是摇头我觉得你们原民会是不是人格分裂了因为我们在提这份说明的时候这个提案的时候说明清清楚楚这反映的是基层的现况 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
8964.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
8981.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
因为有族人跟我还有原民会的教文处反映相同的意见这个意见是什么就是针对推动落实族语生活化的执行意见我们看一下同样是执行落实族语生活化的族语保姆的政策 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
8982.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
9001.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
他有非常严谨的查核机制还有访视人员还有专管中心而主语教会没有甚至连审查主语教会核销的会计事务所他们都发出声明这个声明说什么看一下非依照审计准则查核 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
9002.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
9030.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
因此对上述各受奖励的单位也就是各教会的运作情形它的整体是不是允当表达什么不提供任何程度的确信主委您看一下连会计事务所他们都不甘帮圆明会跟教会背书了这里面是不是有很大的问题啊所以呢本席就跟教文处一起开会我们做出了结论 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
9030.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
9055.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
我们把这些预算先暂时冻结然后来修订原住民族语言发展补助办法然后把主语教会主语保姆语推组织等等这些团体或者是个人未来他都可以申请到原民会的经费补助而且很重要的是不受年限的限制主委你应该知道主语教会的政策是根据 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
9056.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
9085.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
國家語言整體發展方案這五年計畫 對吧到116年就沒有族語教會的政策了耶所以我們修訂這個辦法就是為了未來我們族語推廣的政策可以更擴大適用對象並且要常態性的補助沒有年限的主委 你難道不支持嗎我們改過這個補助的辦法一樣的教會也要循這個辦法來 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
9087.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
9110.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
這正是我要跟您說的很好主委 您是支持的因為這個新版原住民族語言發展補助辦法就在4月17號的時候已經按照我們所謂的解凍條件已經修正發布了嘛 對不對所以可見本席這個提案是有正當理由的我們不是在為難你們機關 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
9112.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
9138.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
如今呢你們也已經辦理完成事項了但是主委解凍報告還沒有送到立法院主委你當初都說了凍結這個案會衝擊博文可是現在可以解凍了可是現在已經可以解凍了很快就會提出來我們現在再整理可是你的意見好像跟行政院長不太一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
9141.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
9156.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
所以你的意思是說你們會提出來對不對很好 內政委員會的召委是牛許廷我也請他趕快排好不好同樣是114年的預算我要現在跟你談的是南島民主論壇的問題南島民主論壇的問題更是離譜了 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
9162.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
9190.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
南岛民主論壇從109年到114年這是總共六年計劃所以從109年到113年已經花費了我們的公務預算2.2億也是佔全部公務預算的2.5億的九成所以我之前就請人民會請你們提出效益的分析你們給我的報告裡面最重要的成果是什麼華西巴里的音樂祭對吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
9191.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
9215.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
我仔細一看 華西巴黎的音樂劇根本不是用南島民主論壇的經費啊你們怎麼可以這麼樣的一花接木的這樣子提出報告啊 主委然後你的新聞稿又講什麼刪除預算勢必會嚴重打擊國際信任度跟外交處境請問一下圓圓會 你們是外交部嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
9216.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
9239.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
還是說外交部他們連邦交都顧不好然後要拜託你們去做我還沒請你回答主委我要問你我要問你南島民主論壇到底創造了多少部落的工作機會為族人帶來了多少經濟效益你要不要再跟我講巴西瓦里喔巴西瓦里不是用這筆預算喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
9240.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
9267.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
我跟妳報告 這幾年來我們跟南島 特別是南島語系的不管是帛琉 不管是土豪魯 不管是馬紹爾我們原住民對國家有貢獻請問對部落造成了多少的工作機會然後多少的經濟效益我們花了這麼多錢總是要有一些經濟效益啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
9268.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
9283.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
我跟你講我們很多這些國家的留學生在台灣甚至於很多的大使來我們都請到部落去讓他們真正的感受到原住民的部落是什麼樣的狀況帶來的多少經濟效應這個部分是外交部做不到的 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
9284.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
9285.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
那些南島國家是我們自己的弟兄姊妹 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
9305.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
9322.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
主委你不是外交部你是園民會我們幫得上外交部的忙這我覺得原住民很驕傲不要在這邊辯解了你不是外交部你是園民會再來園民會今年的預算是不是增加13億我們是不是根本沒有刪你們的基本設施維持費 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
9323.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
9336.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
基本設施維持費沒有刪預算增加基本設施費也沒有刪可是呢你們園民會竟然發公文恐嚇我們鄉鎮市公所說看一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
9337.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
9366.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
補助項目要先凍結50%要回收重新核定重新調整預算結構後續要滾動調整主委你知道嗎基本設施維持費是本席在立法院這23年來替原鄉的鄉長爭取的另外的預算你們現在說要凍結50%然後要收回要全部要重新滾動調整請問一下你們為什麼要這麼做 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
9367.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
9377.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
委員我跟你講即便是刪 即便是動了預算有關這些我們社府的一些經費就是補助一些弱勢團體的從來沒有斷過但是這個基本設施費 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
9382.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
9405.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
是公所的一些基本設施的一些維持沒有做好立法院沒有刪除你們這筆預算啊那你們為什麼要公然的發公文給原鄉的公署要凍結50%呢但是我們要終結預算啊我們要終結預算來看就是說也很誠懇的公署講請你們按照科目我們不是刪掉請你們按照科目先50%而已嘛我們沒有刪也沒有凍結你憑什麼要凍結鄉公所的這50%預算好我們現在我要再問您 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
9412.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
9426.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
我們根本沒有刪這個預算 原民會的預算也增加了13億你們也不斷地發新聞稿 向我們的國人說推廣原住民族政策 編列的政策宣導費用3696萬元也遭到我們在野黨全數刪除該會未來就沒有辦法透過媒體來傳遞相關政策的資訊 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
9437.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
9464.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
導致族人錯失重要的權益請問族委我們沒有園民台嗎園民台每年拿我們人民納稅錢五億卻沒有辦法傳遞資訊嗎而你們園民會的錯誤宣導只會混淆視聽散佈錯誤的資訊預算明明是增加的你們卻還敢預算不夠然後你們一邊又花大錢散佈假消息這樣的園民會族人能夠接受嗎你們這樣子胡搞小搞難道 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
9466.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
9487.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
立法委員不應該好好監督你們嗎然後我們再看到原民會你們惡意散佈假消息之後民進黨的側翼就接著混淆視聽了請問主委台大園圖中心今年度流標是因為禁法補償的關係還是因為財化法的關係你知道嗎民進黨的側翼一直講是因為禁法補償和財化法的關係 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
9488.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
9510.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
看一下公文原民會1月23號回文告訴我台大沿途中心的流標是因為常年入管人士效益不彰再加上推廣活動另外外包辦理這導致招標金額比去年少請問是你說謊還是民進黨的側翼者說謊現在給你機會來澄清你講的這個本來是在台大來做 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
9513.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
9525.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
你已經回文給我了啦是因為他的入管人事效益不彰嘛所以不是禁法補償跟財化法的關係嘛對嗎好 謝謝現在我要再跟你談財政劃分授之法 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
9529.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
9542.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
你們的新聞稿說財政劃分修正影響了運作更將會嚴重衝擊原住民族的地區鄉鎮區公所的財政跟地方建設的發展請問一下財政收支劃分法修了哪幾條 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
9544.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
9557.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
這個我所知道的財政收支方法如果修了幾條你連修了幾條都講不出來然後精算的結果會影響多少原鄉的這些財政你都不知道會影響公所的財政啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
9560.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
9583.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
我問過主計總署 主計總署告訴我 園民會的預估只是可能延伸的情形 不是實際的狀況你連修了哪幾條也沒有辦法講出實際狀況 主委這是你應該做的事情嗎那你知道我提的財化法是要求行政院額外找到支持園鄉的薰球請問你支持我的修法嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
9584.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
9587.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
額外給縣市政府好了我請卓院長 請韓院長 請卓院長 請卓院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
9602.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
9623.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
主委你要更加努力我知道你很認真但是你有一些幕僚真的在欺騙你請問一下院長你剛剛看到了我舉了那麼多園民會的問題它是嚴重失能而且人力流失非常的嚴重人事混亂決策錯誤假消息是滿天飛 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
9624.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
9634.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
我在這邊要求你責成園民會一個月之內調查我們人員外流的原因然後整頓人事團隊並且要停止散發誤導性的新聞稿 可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
9638.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
9653.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
請主委能夠一個月內調查人員外流的原因同時對這個會內的人事團隊要做精神上的鼓勵那麼有沒有發布誤導性的新聞可以檢討沒有的話要向委員說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
9654.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
9678.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
好謝謝院長我要問你的就是金髮補償的問題在9月行政院遭到外界的批判了之後花了49天你們認錯不救了現在呢114年度的總預算也已經公佈原民會的追加預算也已經送到你的行政院了院長請問一下追加預算什麼時候會送進立法院金髮補償這一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
9680.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
9700.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
預算不夠的問題我們經過朝野黨團在行政院裡面溝通協調才達成共識並不是行政院認錯我們是協商主任最關心的是到底能不能夠在九月份的時候領到一公頃六萬塊的補償金跟委員報告現在我們針對 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
9702.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
9724.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
因美國這個關稅的調整世界貿易重整我們現在這個階段第一要向國人提出的是我們未來在這個禮拜之內要提出的特別條例我問您的是我的族人能不能拿到一公頃六萬塊看一下這不只是影響族人權益還關係到你們政黨某位立法委員的政治承諾請您聽一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
9734.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
9754.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
請問院長這很嚴重耶請問一下九月份到底族人能不能領到一公頃六萬塊的補償因為剛剛族委說可以領得到我們在處理特別條例特別預算之後我們會統合整個今年度的總預算到底被刪減的數字該怎麼處理之後一併就整體的最佳預算送出 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
9755.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
9759.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
請問一下監察院已經針對預算提出釋憲了行政院要跟進嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
9761.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
9789.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
這一定會對預算案跟財務法所以我問候主席總書行政院一旦跟進並且憲法法庭財準暫時處分就無法處理追加預算即便剛剛我們考慮用綜合發展基金可是看一下到三月底可以動用的現金不到14億遠遠沒有辦法支應24億的預算缺口我再問你一次請你正面的回答我的族人九月份到底能不能領到 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
9790.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
9811.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
一公頃六萬塊的補償金如果行政院對預算案跟裁劃法提出釋憲如果提出釋憲也併同暫時處分的話影響的就不只是這十四億二十四億而已所以到底能不能領到我們會努力在特別預算特別條例特別預算之後等和現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
9812.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
9835.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
立法院向校行政院自行刪除的部分現在還沒有辦法刪除所以到底能不能領到剛剛主委說可以領到你們的執政黨的委員說如果沒有領到他要辭職我要請院長記住不論是你也好還是剛剛那位執政黨的立法委員我們的族人如果不能夠在九月份如期領到一公頃六萬塊的補償金的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
9837.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
9857.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
後果你們要自己承擔喔也請你們負起責任接下來我要講的是當前世界上最重要的事情也是台灣人民最關心的那就是美國對等關稅的議題從4月2號到現在政府團隊在應對對等關稅這件事情上你們不但錯估形勢而且手忙腳亂 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
9858.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
9877.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
你们也没有做好最好的准备做最坏的打算你们只知道盲目的顺从美国的政府的号令比起民进党政府被动的被川普吃干妈净我觉得新加坡总理黄荀才先生的态度更令我尊敬看一下黄总理他在4月8号国会发言的时候他说 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
9878.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
9903.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
對於美國宣布向新加坡徵收10%的對等關稅他感到失望他說新美有深厚的友誼這不是對朋友應該有的行為他還說美國只著重於貨物貿易但是實際上美國跟許多服務貿易夥伴都保持著順差美國向世界出口軟體服務 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
9904.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
9928.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
教育 娱乐 金融和商业服务等等我们可以看到尽管新加坡政府他也宣布了不在对等关税上面来报复美国但是黄总理他不卑不亢他诚恳说了实话他为什么呢我们民进党你们就不能够对这个所谓的坚弱磐石的朋友表示失望 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
9929.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
9949.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
你們為什麼不能夠用朋友的道義來要求美國呢而這樣的友誼難道不該懷疑嗎我在這五年來我一直對美國的對台政策跟你們發出警示我們為什麼要開放萊豬進口我們為什麼要放寬美國農藥殘留量的管制 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
9950.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
9975.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
我们为什么要接受美国提出来的台湾学人法案然后让美国官员到我们政府工作我们为什么要签署那个对我们贸易谈判根本非常不利的台美贸易倡议我们为什么要把九成以上的外汇存顶大把大把的去买美债而我的这些疑问其实总结起来就是一句话 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
9976.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
9997.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
一昧的依靠美國就是死路一條但是縱使我說了這麼多可是民進黨政府你們就是不聽美國政府說什麼民進黨政府你們就做什麼你們還貼標籤說我是以美論結果呢川普政府現在所做的行為 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
9998.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
10025.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
在我们看来就是以美啊华业美国是必要的因为只有这样我们才能够独立自主地做出最有利于人民的判断这一次的对等关税对台湾人民来说是灾难而我们的赖总统却要人民吃苦当吃补院长不向美国报复并不等于就该全面投降您认为呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
10027.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
10048.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
台灣當然不會向任何一個國家投降包括美國 包括中國在內但是我們對於川普總統的新的關稅政策我們在4月4號的記者會當中我們就說過了這是一個不合理的計算公式我們一定會提出嚴正的反應很好 我們都說過了4月4號但是呢 我們賴總統 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
10049.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
10066.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
他已經把底線都告訴了美國在4月15號的時候有委員質詢你政府是不是有考慮要加碼持有美債你說內部是有準備的我們任何選項都有討論不一定採行這樣的方式最近外傳 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
10067.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
10090.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
美國可能要逼迫美債的債權人將所持有的美債換成100年期的臨時債券針對這件事情中央銀行總裁楊金龍他也回應說如果真的是這麼樣的轉換那就相當是美債的倒債了那您之前有說關於加碼持有美債政府內部有準備請問是準備什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
10090.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
10110.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
是加碼呢 還是轉換呢應該更正 我說我們任何的選項都在我到底會不會要你現在問你的是美債的問題對 它也當然是一個選項你們是加碼還是轉換我們在我們的方案裡面如果沒有提出來那就是不是我們的方案所以你認為購買美債再加碼美債不是你們的方案 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
10111.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
10134.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
這是一個選項,但是我們如果最後重整沒有提出來,那就是不是我們選舉的內容。好啦,我要在這裡告訴您的是,院長,不管是加碼還是轉換,結果都是楊金龍總裁他所說的,倒在。而經過川普這麼樣的震撼教育,台灣全民其實都聰明了,大家都在看,也都在等。 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
10135.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
10155.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
不是您在這邊一直三言兩語撥開重點在這邊打詢的態度我想台灣人民現在正面臨的是生死存亡的大事所以我們是要非常嚴肅的看待這樣的事情我們非常嚴肅 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
10156.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
10181.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
我們也從4月4號提出的9個面向20項措施當中也告訴國人我們對產業的支持所以我們先前是有準備的我們也提升了那我們現在的策略是備妥所有的協調談判的方案內容隨時準備啟動在第一次的正式視訊會議之後隨時準備下一次任何形式的談判請問第一次視訊會議你們的結論是什麼我們說過了雙方對於 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
10185.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
10210.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
對等關稅非關稅貿易障礙以及包括出口管制在內的多項議題都進行了交換意見現在我們要把這些意見重整之後等待下一次應該很快就會到來跟美方進行的談判第二次談判會是什麼時候這個因為美方還要爭奪很多的國家但是我敢跟委員說我們已經是在優先的國家行列當中多優先很優先 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
10212.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
10237.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
獨優宣媒我有告訴您什麼時候嗎我們認為我們應該在因為第一波的這個國家大概應該都這樣接觸像日本他也接觸過了其他也接觸過了我們認為我們會爭取最優先的時間你們認為會是在什麼時候九月以後嗎九月以後九月以後九月以後就超過九十天了九月之前當然之前 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
10239.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
10244.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
最後我還是要說不像美國低頭並不等於就該全面投降請你們堅持 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
10256.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
10271.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
接下來登記第10號李坤城委員之諮詢以書面提出請行政院書面答覆並列入紀錄刊登公報在接下來請登記第11號武力華委員諮詢劉淑斌委員請準備 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
10287.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
10292.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
謝謝院長主席有請行政院卓院長麻煩再請卓院長備詢吳委好院長好上個月我們賴總統他有在國安高層會議做了一個宣稱說中國是境外敵對勢力 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
10315.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
10328.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
因此行政院的各個部會應該要通力的來因應這個做法那我在這裡呢想要先講一下我們在六七十年代 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
10329.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
10346.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
六七十年前那個時候我們都會念保密防諜人人有責檢舉匪諜保家衛國小心匪諜就在你身邊大家都耳熟能詳朗朗上口但是我們發現匪諜一直都在 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
10348.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
10367.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
特別是我們看到滲透的情形越來越嚴重不僅僅滲透到政府機關也滲透到很多政治人物的身邊所以在這邊我也很擔心因為我們在立法院我們常常看到有很多的委員呢他會拿國台辦的稿子來質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
10368.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
10393.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
然後從來不檢討中國反而是幫著中國去檢討美國、日本那我認為這個就是癌細胞要拔除要不然會動搖國本所以我在這邊特別要來關心一下就是關於土地的問題因為對我們原住民來講土地就是我們的山林、我們的家、我們的生命那我在這邊要先提 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
10394.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
10415.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
其實這些年來全世界很多國家包括日本、韓國、美國、瑞士等等很多國家都會聽到中資買地的問題例如韓國的濟州島是不是變成了中國島那日本的北海道他們的軍事雷達站附近大量的被中資買土地甚至 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
10416.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
10439.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
美國總統拜登他在去年還特別簽署了一個行政命令因為有一個中國公民他買下了重要軍事基地附近的土地迫使美國總統必須用行政命令來要求他售出為什麼因為無法可貫那我在想如果說台灣 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
10440.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
10454.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
的機敏設施沒有這些周邊土地被中資滲透我覺得也很難讓人相信所以在這邊關於中資買地的問題其實常常也有人討論以財訊雜誌來講他在2014年的時候曾經說過 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
10459.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
10477.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
中國到處全世界買土地買企業買個資買人心無所不買可是他在去年出了一個經典重現他說十年了問題依然如此那我自己呢我們看到在花蓮因為那邊有很多原住民的土地 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
10478.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
10493.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
像是理想大地的案外案就引發說是不是傅坤祺他引中資買地甚至在去年嘉山基地那個地方有財團大量的收購附近的土地又或者說像我們的元寶地 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
10494.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
10516.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
富坤崎他讓中國團體有一個叫愛狗樂園縣政府想要在那個地方做開發那我們到底有沒有防範的機制我們來看我們的兩岸人民關係條例有在第73條第一項有說就是這些大陸地區的人民法人團體如果他們要做投資是需要主管機關經濟部的許可 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
10517.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
10534.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
那麼如果要買地呢有在第69條第一項他是要跟主管機關內政部要取得許可所以我現在先請教我們陸委會主委請問中國人是用人頭在台違法投資該不該罰報告委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
10538.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
10564.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
我們以投資而言如果是用人頭投資的話因為我們現行的這些罰則它跟當事人一樣人頭也是要負刑責還有罰還好 謝謝所以這是在2019年增訂的第93條之一第一項第一款第二款對不對要罰投資者也要罰人頭那我再請教一下主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
10564.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
10593.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
那中國人士如果用人頭在談違法買地,該不該罰?那當然,跟委員報告其實我們對於陸資來,或是陸人、自然人來買我們的這些房地產、土地基本上我們的兩岸條例基本上是許可制的是嚴格許可所以沒有罰嘛,所以沒有罰好,那我請教一下土地主管機關內政部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
10595.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
10596.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
請教內政部長如果中資用人頭購買土地算不算借民登記算 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
10610.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
10636.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
那我們一般都是參考什麼呢最高法院在99年的一個民事判決也是目前法律定義的一個通說那簡單來講就是說我們兩個約定好名字登記在我身上但是我願意讓你來管理這個叫做借名登記那如果按照剛剛的一個民事判決的定義那請教一下內政部長中資如果用人頭買地算不算借名登記 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
10637.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
10653.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
算好那請問有效還是無效無效因為一個是中國人一個是台灣人所以他中國人的話他要按照剛剛陸委會主委所說的兩岸人民關係條例的相關規定來辦理好那部長所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
10653.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
10675.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
這是你的見解那我們來看一下民事判決的見解也是這麼說只要不違反這種強制的禁止規定它是有效的喔但是我們來看看兩岸人民關係條例它到底有沒有禁止它這個地方它說一定要獲得許可才能夠取得土地所以問題就來了 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
10677.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
10694.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
我們看這個表格如果他不是禁止規定那就是表示屆民登記有效也就是說中國人可以不經許可就可以人頭夠地但是這個條文到底有什麼意義因為大家就去找人頭就好啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
10694.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
10712.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
好如果他是禁止規定那就是代表屆民登記是無效的但是剛才的兩岸人民關係條例的第69條我們有看到只有民事上無效他沒有行政法沒有刑罰所以無論有效沒有效 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
10713.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
10741.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
我們都看到這就是現行的法規漏洞當然我相信我們大家都不歡迎也不允許中資用這種人頭掩護的方式來購買土地所以呢我在這邊的第一個訴求就是說既然中國人用人頭投資要罰那麼買地也應該要比照有罰則不能只是無效那這個部分院長您覺得如何 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
10744.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
10764.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
本來這個許可制就是一個強力的許可才可以等於他就是一個禁止的行為除非他有非常大的特例因為他相關的規定裡面他沒有行政處罰或是刑罰這部分我們應該檢討但是如果有遇到這樣的案子至少先確定他自始就無效的一個購地行為這個冒名 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
10767.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
10792.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
頂替的貿易人頭他也沒有辦法在這個土地上執行他的任何權利謝謝院長願意就這個部分來討論修法那接下來我當然我原住民我更關心原保地的部分那到底中國人中資有沒有買原保地我特別跟內政部來索資那這個地方經過審查人沒有問題地也不是基民地區 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
10794.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
10805.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
經過許可的共計有548件 列管147件繼續列管401件 好 不管我現在問說 那麼這些到底有沒有在原保地 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
10806.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
10831.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
回答我說均非屬原住民保留地我當然也知道啊為什麼因為我們根本無從得知雖然我們知道一定有但是我們無從得知那既然內政部這個部分我們沒有管道可以查那我想要來問一下袁明慧請袁明慧時間暫停我們委員跟妳介意好謝謝就是三位 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
10832.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
10835.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
有沒有中國人士用人頭在台灣買元寶地的清查資料? |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
10854.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
10883.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
院長我只是要讓您清楚的知道在防堵中資擺地特別是原住民保留地是一個很大的問題目前沒有資料無從查起也不知道到底有沒有涉及不法或國安問題所以我在這邊特別就是提醒像我剛剛提到的在我們這個嘉山基地的附近就是在去年兩大集團七間公司他對準嘉山基地中資 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
10885.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
10907.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
那為什麼我說這個地方重不重要我們也知道中國解放軍每一次在軍演他常常去挑戰這個界線我們的嘉山基地那我們來看一下這個地圖嘉山基地就是紅線圈起來的那個部分然後七廳潭是靠海邊的部分你看它附近全部都是原住民保留地周邊有很多的原住民保留地 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
10907.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
10934.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
那我特別去國防部所知因為加山低地只是其中一例啊結果我所知之後原鄉地區的軍事設備共有131處總計5600多公頃所以這個部分我們就很驚訝像前一陣子兩個月前媒體有揭露天啊原住民保留地的900萬購得的土地竟然可以設定2億的一個貸款 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
10937.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
10962.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
所以這個部分大家都說怎麼做到的還好媒體有揭露他說這個兩億不是設定給銀行是設定給開發公司那這個開發公司的背景一查有東莞的台商副會長有中國台氣聯的會長也有我們政治人物過去現長的子弟兵等等 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
10962.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
10977.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
如果沒有新聞爆料我們一般社會很難知道但是它不是個案我跟園民會的所知我就鎖幾個給院長聽聽看在五峰鄉公告限制六萬可以擔保三千萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
10978.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
10984.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
獅子鄉500萬可以擔保1億秀林鄉174萬可以擔保3688萬復興區75萬可以擔保3000萬海端鄉160萬可以擔保5000萬信義鄉82萬可以擔保1000萬仁愛鄉100萬可以擔保3000萬尖石鄉300萬可以擔保8000萬這些都只是冰山一角很可怕的是現在是集團式的收購他結合投資者 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
11008.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
11029.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
開發者 前客 政治人物他們到處到原鄉收購土地您可以看一下這個圖全國走到哪裡都有這個廣告大啦啦的廣告以林地 文獻他要用現金收購也把他的手機號碼都放上去還告訴大家不要私功德無量 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
11030.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
11050.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
到處全國搜刮土地這些是什麼一胎二胎現金吸引民間當部資產管理公司然後設定抵押之後再交易給人頭這樣的情形非常的嚴重我要給我們院長看一個數據學者也在呼籲學者已經告訴我們他推估 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
11051.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
11078.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
我們目前已經流失的私有元寶地是45.5%也就是說超過一半已經不是原住民在實際使用就像我剛剛講的什麼叫建民登記我們兩個人講好地登記在我這邊實際的使用權在你那邊那其中多少是中資然後呢是拿來做什麼用完全不得而知所以我在這邊我們想要不要防堵有上一屆 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
11079.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
11106.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
行政院有把原保條例送進來有送進來原民會也做了很多的討論但是呢最終宣告沒有獲得支持他有沒有防堵在第17條草案有寫私有原保等設定工作權點權或抵押權給非原住民只能向政府機關金融機構或原住民儲蓄戶住社來做設定抵押 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
11107.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
11116.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
這至少是一個防堵的破口這個條例非常的重要所以呢我在這個地方要特別先謝謝院長就是我在110年透過總質詢幾度呢做了幾次禁法補償的一個質詢那一直到112年獲得陳建仁院長他有交代原民會來研議 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
11131.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
11149.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
那也才113年雖然在風風雨雨之中呢我也看到我們行政院對我們原保地的一個重視因為我們零務局零保署那邊的蔣府造林已經提高到六年六十萬如果我們沒有在我們的進法補償做對應 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
11151.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
11163.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
我相信我們會有很大的一個山林災難那但是我在這邊就是非常的感謝我希望院長能夠責成我們的相關部會要求內政部 原民會 陸委會 協同相關部會盤查中資 以人頭戶購買原保地的情形 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
11167.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
11192.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
第二個我訴求希望能夠針對兩岸人民關係條例去修訂中資人頭買賣的一個罰則那第三個就是希望院長行政院支持原保條例本會期繼續的來送立法院來審查台灣的每一塊土地都很重要我們都不希望落入境外的敵對勢力是不是請院長支持謝謝委員我們一定支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
11193.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
11215.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
總之進來購買任何的土地除非他經過嚴格法定的程序原住民土地我們會請原民會 陸委會還有內政部共同來清查那關於原住民族保留地權利回復及管理利用條例既然以前送進來過那請主委再詳細的規劃我們如果能夠增加國安安全 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
11223.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
11225.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
謝謝吳麗華委員的資訊,謝謝卓院長、各部會首長的備詢,謝謝。接下來,我們請登記第12號,劉書斌委員,請資訊。 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
11256.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
11260.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
好 謝謝主席 有請卓院長麻煩再請卓院長備詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
11270.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
11288.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
主委好 再次恭喜主委長好您是在1月113年的時候5月20號就宣誓就職的那你那時候在宣誓就職的時候你有談到於事已至成 克尊國家的法令就盡忠職守 如為誓言願受最嚴厲的處罰 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
11289.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
11305.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
好 那我們繼續往下看今天我的談論的主題是涉及到說兩岸的定位在我國的憲法當中的關係在徵求條文當中認定的在前言當中是目前我國是在國家統一前的狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
11306.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
11328.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
因此在十一條的時候在自由地區與大陸地區之間的人民關係是由兩岸人民關係條例來去約定因此有這樣子的台灣地區與大陸地區的兩岸人民關係的內容包括的是同樣在把第一條的這部分第二條就特地講定了在台灣地區跟大陸地區我現在就是要問 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
11330.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
11358.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
左院長你一個問題在於說根據憲法跟兩岸人民關係條例兩岸關係的現在狀況是答案一個是一國兩區還是兩國請問你的答案是依照憲法及兩岸人民關係條例裡面用字來講當然是兩個地區一個地區跟大陸地區但是我們如果對外在政治上國際上把自己稱為地區那是非常不宜的 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
11359.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
11378.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
好 那是這個名字 那是哪一個國呢我們是中華民國對 所以是中華民國的下面的大陸地區跟中國台灣地區嘛對 是這樣的好的 這樣的情況之下您這樣講是沒有錯啦因為我們分對內跟對外但是我們面對的是共同的有一個鄰國在對面 他事實上是有一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
11379.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
11404.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
有點特殊的這樣子對待我們的情況很特殊不只有一點很特殊非常特殊沒錯沒錯這也是的確是特殊的關係好那現在我們看看您是在4月15號的時候我們再往下一頁去看的時候可以看到的是您在4月15號的時候提到的是以針對的是劉思邦部長的這個的談論然後您提到是說正式來講是一個中華民國跟中華人民共和國互不隸屬的關係這是確定嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
11406.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
11432.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
中華民國與中華人民共和國互不隸屬這是事實 現狀事實是 這樣的情況之下但是因為我們面對的是一個對岸他對我們有相關的一個需求他有一個要求那我們現在往下看在這個情況之下其實你剛才也說到你的確答對了就中華民國的一國兩區是這樣的一國兩區不過呢在這邊要跟大家講因為你剛才提到的是中華民國跟中華人民共和國可是在對岸聽起來的話可能就會出現到是兩國論的這個情形 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
11435.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
11454.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
我現在是說我們要知恥知彼百戰百勝因此我就要跟大家講跟卓院長你說如果您的講話因為你有提到是中華民國跟中華人民共和國這個有兩國論的疑慮的情況之下他就會準備認為說你是有準備邁向法理台獨我們現在繼續往下看 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
11455.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
11477.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
如果真的要面對到國際間的這樣的話在對內你是一個法治國家的時候呢最重要的是我認為是說你可能要做修憲或者說申請違憲審查這部分的時候你可能還在法治上面是合理的那這邊地方的時候呢我想詢問的是你有考慮過這個情況嗎提出修憲或者是說要做違憲的這個審查嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
11479.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
11507.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
修憲的工程之浩大以及現在國會的結構應該很難甚至修憲之後還要修憲公投是沒錯但是國會現在的工程就應該不簡單所以我是認為說我們在討論兩岸人民關係條例的時候甚至憲法的時候對內我們用地區這個法律的用語來來來談論沒有什麼大問題但是在對外我們絕對不能把自己列為一個地區我們自己的國家 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
11507.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
11529.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
一個主權獨立的國家這個國家叫做中華民國你要叫他中華民國台灣我們也歡迎都一樣的響亮非常好謝謝你確認這部分那我只是跟你講如果真的法治要確認這個效果的話其實提出修憲或者是做釋憲我現在審查都是可行之照好那我們現在進入到下一個議題這部分是更嚴重的部分在3月13號的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
11532.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
11557.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
因為賴總統在國安會會議後有這個談話就把對岸這個認定說是依照反滲透法呢認定他是一個定外敵對勢力嘛對不對那之後呢您在後來呢賴總統他也在同樣的時間之後呢他也提出了賴17條就是說因應到兩岸關係這部分敵對勢力滲透中共的這個滲透這部分呢他有這樣17條那我們繼續往下看的時候您在 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
11558.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
11582.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
隔一天喔 3月14號的時候您也呼應了愛總統說對岸是境外敵對勢力這樣的說法沒有錯 好 這都是事實那我們現在想問一個問題是請問您知道國安會議跟行政院會議有什麼差異嗎差異很大那請說行政院會議 行政院的院會啦院會我們每週都會固定舉行那國安會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
11583.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
11599.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
舉行的時間可能性次數都不是這樣的平凡但是很少正式舉行現在我們舉行的兩次也叫做國安高層會議好 但是你剛才還忘了說一個重要的國安會議呢它事實上是總統的諮詢機構 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
11602.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
11631.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
總統的諮詢機構所以那行政院長您作為行政院行政院作為國家最高的行政機關最高的決策單位就是行政院會議嘛行政院院會嘛對吧但是您在同一天的這個情況之下請問一下你們當因為你3月14號你說了你呼應了總統說是境外敵對勢力是中國那這種情況之下請問你3月13號這個地方你這一天你有提出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
11632.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
11635.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
行政院院會也針對境外事宜這邊有經過討論嗎3月13號對 禮拜四在行政院院會我們沒有這個議題啊你們沒有這個議題那你為什麼3月14號的時候您可以就提出來就是說呼應大總統說法這個是一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
11651.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
11653.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
因為在國安高層會議當中總統做了指示指示裡面他就提到這是一個境外的敵對勢力 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
11678.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
11701.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
但是他是諮詢會議的性質總統已經親口講出來了17項的措施沒有錯但是你知道你是行政院長你是最高行政機關你還是必須要經過行政院會議的決議不是這樣子的沒有沒有我們有把17項措施放在院會裡面那您的部分就是所以才會聽到說引起後面所有的相關的問題那總統在元旦的公告也要經過行政院院會嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
11703.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
11726.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
我等一下說明 你是還包括立法院 甚至還有重要的政策決策 根據憲法雙十國慶的講話也要經過行政院院會嗎沒有 那是因為你沒有呼應 那是總統講的話沒問題可是您呼應 你是行政院院長您是最高行政 決策機關是在行政院會議 這確定吧報告委員 總統元旦講話 雙十講話 我們都有回應 都有呼應 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
11728.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
11755.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
但是這是重大決策如果只是一般宣示那不一樣因為你把的在憲法當中所說的是在統一之前的這個部分兩岸關係的部分你把它定做把中共認為是一個敵對勢力這個是我們再繼續往下看特別是在反滲透法這邊十二條裡面我們看到這個內容它事實上只有被規定被滲透的對象裡面的刑事跟行政處罰並沒有針對我們看下一頁它並沒有針對 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
11758.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
11782.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
總統他如何去認定他是一個另外敵對勢力這一部分的決策程序做一個規範那更重要的是呢這個是一個重大政策的改變所以他必須經過行政院會議甚至經過憲法他必須尊重立法院的重要決策的參與權那這邊事實上到立法院來做報告了那現在還要決議的這邊要根據到憲法第三條或者行政院職權行使法的使用 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
11783.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
11800.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
這個部分 通通都要 重要事項有變更要做立法院的一個要經過立法院的決議這種情況好 所以呢 導致賴總統他本身做宣告對岸委員會進行決議的時候他的這個立法過程缺乏合法正當性好 這個地方總統經過國安高層會議諮詢的性質之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
11804.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
11825.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
總和了相關很多部會首長參加大家在那個會中做成的決議就是由總統對外來宣示的包括17項但是您呼籲但是我現在重點說我現在是針對您您是我國最高的行政首長但是行政院會議的決策的功能你忘記了你忽略了我沒有甚至沒有在 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
11826.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
11846.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
立法院商通經過我們重要的決策,四字520號就針對總統他在申請上次的時候,核四的停建就是造成一個四字解釋,四字520號就是要後來經過立法院的行政院長到立法院做報告之後,立法院決議之後,後來核四要再重建了 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
11847.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
11859.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
所以這個地方重啟了這部分你要知道四次解釋已經更訂了重要決策立法院要參與好那這邊你如果不確定你可以再看四次的520號解釋好那另外我更重要的是要強調的是 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
11862.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
11880.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
少數的治理因為奈清德總統是40%產生的一個總統另外一部分現在行政院就帶著大家境外敵對勢力就帶著大家去走如果經過立法院程序可能就沒問題可是現在只有40%的民意卻是帶著大家因為這是民進黨的黨議 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
11883.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
11901.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
可是他的我們兩千三百萬人的命運是由台灣人自己來決定的這個情況之下並不是說如果你沒有經過立法院的這樣一個決定實際上是缺乏這個程序的實際上是很危險的更重要的是我們看到的是現在在選研中心這大選研中心有說出來的百分之六超過六十的人是 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
11903.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
11928.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
維持的是維持現狀或是維持現狀之後再看以後怎麼發展這是公告的事實你可以看到這樣的迷你的知識那您知道嗎在這種情況之下會造成的是一個你把對岸當作一個境外敵對勢力什麼效果呢就是會慢慢覺得說他根據我們現在看看下一頁這種情況之下我們為了知識之彼百戰百勝可以看到在下一頁你可以看到的是 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
11929.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
11957.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
中共的國家反分裂法您作為一個國家的行政的首長你要知道對方會有什麼反應他是說如果你從台灣從中國把他分裂出去的話呢會導致或是會導致台灣從中國分裂出去的重大事故呢導致和平可能的這個統一性都完全消失的時候那你看和平統一性因為你把他視為進對岸的一個敵對勢力的時候就會考試他用非和平的方式幫他施政班委員我覺得你不應該用 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
11959.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
11979.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
中國的反分裂國家法來框兩岸的互動事實上總統也是依據我們立法院通過的反滲透法的定義中國大陸所作所為對台的極限施壓步步兼逼哪一項不是境外敵對施以更何況這是符合這個反滲透法的定義的 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
11979.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
11980.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
法律都是延續性的啊怎麼可能什麼黨 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
11995.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
11998.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
全世界都知道中共對台的嚴重威脅那你就透過法律程序讓他落實 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
12017.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
12027.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
這個是客觀事實舉世公正的對台威脅當然法律是一回事但是這個嚴重的威脅難道委員沒有感受到嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].start |
12028.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].end |
12054.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].text |
有威脅我等一下就要問到陸委會主委有威脅在可是剛剛人家原因是什麼原因是什麼如果你看到果然看到前面的因的時候那是沒辦法去解決真正的問題的陸委會現在跟行政院的問題現在就是在這個情況我現在就跟大家講因為前面有敵對的勢力本來我們之前就有就有了這個他的圍繞這個環台都沒有問題可是更的清楚了他現在變成說做了演習 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].start |
12055.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].end |
12065.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].text |
我的意思是說 我們真的要好好解決尤其是 邱主委你本身是學者出身你本身 陸委會我現在甚至跟大家講的是在這邊陸委會甚至我就現在問你了啦等一下 院長我要跟你講你這樣子把對岸視為一個敵對勢力的時候你的情況是你要走向的是緊張還有敵意耶我說過 和平有兩種 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].start |
12080.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].end |
12094.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].text |
一種是我們夠強 一種是我們投降我們絕對要讓自己的國防力量夠強強到讓普我之國家境外敵對勢力不會來侵略我們如果委員如果委員現在還執迷在兩岸一家親那絕對不是台灣現狀跟主流 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].start |
12110.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].end |
12122.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].text |
沒有這樣講 剛才主流是什麼 維持現狀維持現狀 你不要忘記維持現狀才是主流 我剛才已經說了民調呈現是60%是這樣子的 你不要誤導我們沒有要從任何國家脫離出來是中華人民共和國從中華民國脫離出去的 不是嗎他是另外的 那是他的問題 我們現在的問題就好了我們現在沒有要從中華民國脫離出來啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].start |
12135.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].end |
12136.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].text |
我想我們仍然持續推動對等尊嚴符合規範健康有序的交流 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].start |
12158.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].end |
12173.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].text |
哪怕是我們推出了17項因應國安的這些策略我們也是努力在維護台海我們是積極努力維護台海的現狀現在要改變台海現狀的是中共當局讓地方他們竊口要來去要來去危害台灣用軍演的方式處理這才是承受到的權益 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].start |
12186.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].end |
12213.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].text |
好 謝謝時間到了謝謝劉書斌委員質詢謝謝卓院長陸委會的備詢現在在我們二樓旁聽起來是德國愛德諾青年政治學校有來自印度馬來西亞蒙古緬甸尼泊爾菲律賓東帝文韓國以及德國所有年輕的政治學家Welcome |
| transcript.whisperx[422].start |
12214.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].end |
12233.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].text |
我們掌聲歡迎來 再一次報告委員會我們內政組的質詢已詢答完畢本次會議為委員提出臨時提案因此我們就不進行臨時提案之處理下午2點30分我們繼續召開外交及國防組織質詢先來休息 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].start |
14693.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].end |
14693.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].text |
由 Amara.org 社群提供的字幕 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].start |
16304.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].end |
16305.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].text |
MING PAO CANADA MANGA |
| transcript.whisperx[425].start |
17161.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].end |
17161.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].text |
谢谢大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].start |
17654.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].end |
17655.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].text |
谢谢观看 欢迎订阅我的频道 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].start |
19553.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].end |
19553.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].text |
MING PAO CANADA MANGA |
| transcript.whisperx[428].start |
20226.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].end |
20227.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].text |
由 Amara.org 社群提供的字幕 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].start |
21617.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].end |
21642.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].text |
抱怨會現在繼續開會進行外交及國防組諮詢請陳委員永康諮詢主席有請卓院長請卓院長備詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].start |
21653.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].end |
21668.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].text |
主委長您好從4月2號面對美國川普總統的對等關稅政策跟挑戰我想全世界的國家都承受了很大的壓力雖然在4月9號 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].start |
21669.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].end |
21698.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].text |
他又宣布延後90天但是90天以後我們面對的挑戰目前是做預印呢還是分工呢還是未來看到有關全球貿易的到底是分裂呢還是美國所謂的競合我想我們國內的所有部會首長都在這邊窮盡功夫大家希望能夠以維護國家利益的前提下找到一個比較好的解套方案是 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].start |
21699.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].end |
21722.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].text |
那么我目前先把这个议题搁置我先从恶务战争因为川普总统他说到从他上任以来是很快就会把恶务战争解决但是最近他面临到的挑战使他有一种想法甚至说他可以脱手不管了那因此这个产生的问题给了我们一个教训 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].start |
21723.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].end |
21740.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].text |
我们可以看到乌克兰是一个领土广大的国家台湾是一个海洋海岛国家一个是靠路上交通线那么台湾是海上交通线情况状况都不一样这个俄乌战争打到今天已经1152天了 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].start |
21744.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].end |
21759.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].text |
实际上在战争开始的头六个月,乌克兰的难民跑到欧洲国家已经超过1100万人,三年的战争下来虽然有几百万回去,目前还有600万。 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].start |
21760.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].end |
21786.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].text |
在散播在欧洲各地那这种情况啊对台湾面对未来的两岸如果有一个冲突的挑战我们除了要照顾国人的安全另外一个就是我们在台湾的有很多的外籍的居民不只是从事事业投资教学也有我们很多友好邦交的这个Labor Force |
| transcript.whisperx[436].start |
21786.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].end |
21814.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].text |
那這個加起來我想外交部也了解將近90萬人那這種情況下要掌握一個預應時間讓友好國家跟我們有很好的溝通管道在兩岸情勢升級緊張到某種程度的情況下我們跟這些友好的國家要分擔責任我們要照顧我們的國民也要照顧其他國家在台灣工作的同仁那這邊你可以看到 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].start |
21816.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].end |
21845.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].text |
烏克蘭跟台灣的面積比例是16.7比1那人口比例是1.9 4300萬4300萬對2300萬但是密度比是1比8.7就說台灣人口密度非常高如果起衝突了我們除了希望能夠產生嚇阻避免戰爭但是如果發生了就說中共犯台的情況下我們要保護我們的國土 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].start |
21846.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].end |
21872.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].text |
這個城鎮戰跟烏克蘭的狀況是不一樣的那另外一個值得我們關注的就是人均耗電比我們面積這麼小可是我們的耗電是烏克蘭的3.4倍那這個情況下讓我們知道就是說這個電力的供應跟電力的傳輸是我們的關鍵技術設施的第一優先的考量 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].start |
21874.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].end |
21899.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].text |
所以我们需要有一个所谓的共同图像这个图像是可以跨部会使用当我们谈乌克兰的时候我们了解台湾的大小也可以看到乌冬的战场目前这个面积已经可以含括两个台湾了所以它这个范例并不是适合拿台湾来比较说今天的乌克兰就是明日的台湾因为这个案例不同 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].start |
21899.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].end |
21918.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].text |
那烏東的戰場因為有美國的星鏈的技術所以它前線的士兵戰士跟家人通訊手機可以通在烏東的地區它都是靠星鏈提供通訊那麼因為我們在台灣的岸上的固定站台或者是Wi-Fi |
| transcript.whisperx[441].start |
21919.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].end |
21938.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].text |
如果暫時衝突中斷的話雖然我們跟灣外不衛星公司簽約但是通訊頻道的數量以及頻寬還是有限的這個部分我們希望將來這個地方持續努力也要加強我們的韌性所以烏克蘭的戰場雖然看到了許多的無人機運用 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].start |
21939.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].end |
21949.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].text |
幾千架上萬架的使用這種消耗型的無人機是因為有starlink提供鏈路才可以使用但這個case在台灣並不會 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].start |
21952.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].end |
21980.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].text |
具有這種同樣的功能因此我們政府未來如果跟Starlink要做溝通因為馬斯克是說他要百分之百掌握權那我們政府當初是希望五十五十我想在這個溝通過程中間如果川普政府還是支持區域安全重視亞太和平我覺得這是一個溝通的管道那麼除了現有的英國的One World以外我們還要強化其他的鏈路那這個就是我們的社會韌性 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].start |
21981.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].end |
21999.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].text |
那至於在加薩走廊的站場給我們一個慘痛的教訓也就是說當你失去電力供應失去了醫藥 失去了食水 失去了糧食這種情況下就是社會結構的脆弱性就抽出來了這張圖表顯示是從2022年的2月24號 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].start |
22005.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].end |
22028.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].text |
俄国开始侵略乌克兰或进犯乌克兰在两个月之内俄国乌克兰美国欧盟甚至联合国它的重大措施政策事势都显示在这里面但是我们发现在其中就是在头两个月中间有三次可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].start |
22029.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].end |
22045.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].text |
就是說停火協議但是都沒有達成目標當然每個國家他的政治目標跟他的軍事手段有不同的搭配方法可是如果以當時的現象來看今天如果達成停火協議當時是 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].start |
22049.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].end |
22077.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].text |
俄羅斯希望頓內斯克 盧甘斯克兩個自治州變成獨立國但是今天變成四個州被佔領了加上克里米亞就五個地區如果當時能夠具有魄力就講不加入北約加入歐盟大家支持那烏東的戰場如果做一個很客觀的嚴肅討論這三年的仗除了一個世代的年輕人的教育人口 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].start |
22078.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].end |
22080.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].text |
社會設施全部毀掉以外 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].start |
22081.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].end |
22108.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].text |
戰爭的兩方沒有一個是贏家所以我們希望能夠掌握這種狀況看到關鍵的節點的時候要提供重要的分析因素因此這個方法論實際上是結合了這個所謂人工智慧的資料庫所以我們每一個戰場的情境我們都可以回溯將來檢討在哪個關鍵節點當時我們錯失了機會但是別人付出的教訓我們不要付第二次的學費 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].start |
22110.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].end |
22138.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].text |
那這個是當時4月21號4月24號的一個模擬情境的戰場情形你可以看到在這個上面的這個動態顯示實際上從4月份以後整個戰場就沒有擴大縮小除了去年9月的這個烏東他打了一塊小地方克爾斯克但現在俄國又幾乎拿回去了所以現在的談判 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].start |
22139.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].end |
22160.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].text |
可能要回到当年2015年2月15号这个明斯克二号条款可是呢因为双方在这13条里面都有背负了没有恪守这个条款的职责当然最后是俄罗斯撕毁条款那回过头来我们来想 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].start |
22161.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].end |
22168.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].text |
當年這個二戰勝利我們光復台灣是因為馬關條約在1895年的4月17號當時簽訂馬關條約並不是單獨割讓台澎還包括遼東半島但是因為呢當年俄國 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].start |
22179.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].end |
22188.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].text |
德國這個法國他們因為要享有原來的租界地所以他們不讓步因此蜻蜓又增加了3000萬兩白銀給這個日本 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].start |
22192.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].end |
22213.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].text |
那至于其他的条款我就不提因此今天如果是俄罗斯跟乌克兰要谈到重新的停战协定以及签和平条约的话他要回到明斯克二号条款一共十三条我建议外交部的同仁呢在这个明斯克条款里面去了解一下他的细节 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].start |
22214.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].end |
22237.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].text |
因為所有東西你是回到上一次不管這條約接受或是撕毀可是它的precondition條件論就是你現在要回復談判的一個要求所以這個就是民視客的13條我想這個做一個參考 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].start |
22239.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].end |
22252.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].text |
那因為川普總統就任以來他在第一任這一年的任期內一定會向國會提出他的國家安全戰略報告那麼有國家安全戰略下面美國的國防部有國防 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].start |
22254.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].end |
22268.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].text |
在国防战略下他有他的军事战略那么还有他的印太战略还有他各种情报战略因此他是四个面向比方讲他的军事实力要被变他的外交立场要做预防 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].start |
22269.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].end |
22290.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].text |
他对市场经济南海要追求最重要的一条是美国现在专注法规专利他们很会修法保护所以这四个批实际上是国家安全战略里面一个共同的支撑那么因为我们现在希望我们的执政跟政府在这个任期内提出我们的一个国家安全战略 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].start |
22291.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].end |
22311.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].text |
那用這個戰略的架構讓我們的各個部會除了在政策上面從上到下有明確的政策指導在水平的協調上跨部會因為對應每一個不同的情境各部會他的分工跟承擔的責任並非按比例那這個點我提醒大家注意 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].start |
22314.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].end |
22339.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].text |
那前两天美国国会的特别助理团就是国会的对中共的这个小组团也访问也到这个我们立法院来访问那他们也关切到这个问题所以说你看这边不管是美国的国务院美国的这个国防部美国的CIA还有国会都有一个对中共政策研究小组可是他们的资讯是分享的所以你可以看这个 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].start |
22342.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].end |
22369.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].text |
川普就任以後啊他會定定他的核心目標國家利益實力元素戰略要素兵力規模甚至在區域性啊他的解決方案他承擔多少責任要付多少錢這個錢有可能是要現在的友好國家共同分攤的所以他的這個戰略指導啊從上到下明確他的實力呢從下到上要做支撐那這個給我們一個參考的一個構想 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].start |
22373.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].end |
22396.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].text |
比照美国作为我们的一个学习的经验,国家安全战略,国防战略,军事战略,以及各地区的作战的战略,它是有重叠性的,也就是说有明确的指导。因为目前我们政府并没有官方版的国家安全战略,虽然我们公布了一个四年期国防总检讨,但是美国在2017年就把它取消掉了。 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].start |
22397.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].end |
22413.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].text |
那因為就是因為從上到下跟下到上的支撐不能同調所以他就改成兩年一版的國防戰略因此我們在國防法內將來可以提出這個跨黨協商來修改這個國防法的要求因為我們只有 QDR |
| transcript.whisperx[464].start |
22413.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].end |
22429.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].text |
雖然是四年期總檢討但是是前瞻我們並沒有回顧我這個四年跟過去四年就上一個版本中間有哪些落差或是哪些還力有所未待的那我們要努力來做那麼接著我們政府在今年又要出版國防戰略這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].start |
22434.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].end |
22455.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].text |
QD从上一个版本的48页进步到现在的63页内容增加了一些那么原来国防战略跟军事战略是一页半现在成长到四页我们也肯定但是跟邻近国家比内容还不足我们希望在国防报告书白皮书出来以后能够看得到有所精进 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].start |
22456.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].end |
22471.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].text |
那麼因為國家安全的各個領域,包括社會堅韌、太和和平、民心安定、經濟繁榮、軍事堅強,這裡面不同的面向,因為有不同的直接督導的長官, |
| transcript.whisperx[467].start |
22474.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].end |
22501.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].text |
有总统的有院长的有外交国防的有陆委的有海委的有国安会的那现在总统成立了三个特别委员会我们是肯定这三个课点委员会虽然的跨部会的协商还有民间有一些专业人士参与可是专业人士参与他提出的建言或建议要反映到不会去变成就说他并不是以 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].start |
22502.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].end |
22520.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].text |
成比例的這個分工單則而是這些要做的事要並到下一年的國防預算裡面他才能夠付錢雖然現在誠意很高但是現在呢目前只是做出建言那我們用這個來顯示一個為什麼需要一個結構性的支撐 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].start |
22523.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].end |
22547.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].text |
現在我們都在講人工智慧的基礎國內已經廣泛在運用政府機構在用但是顯然這個運用的方法還不能夠短期達標就是有關於我們的所謂的關鍵基礎設施跟全社會韌性它這個互動關係並不是只是排列它的順序哪一個優先哪個第二因此我們在這邊你可以看出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].start |
22551.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].end |
22576.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].text |
利用人工智慧根据我们的关键因素排出了不同的互动关系这个互动关系是根据当前我们根据国际情势国内社会的韧性如何强化要投资什么时间可以达成所以它是一个互动的关联性这边看得到最关键性的东西就是电网 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].start |
22577.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].end |
22590.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].text |
電力分配網路設施資安能源的進口那社會結構還有呢醫療體系另外就是金融體系我們千萬不能因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].start |
22592.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].end |
22615.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].text |
因為遭到斷電或是海纜斷電外匯存底不能運用金融這個會受極大的影響因此在這個結構圖上我們可以提供這個院內同仁做個參考這個是他不只是看到表象的第一層他甚至向下還可以延伸到第三層那這種情況下可以加快我們的韌性結構的強度的這個推展 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].start |
22620.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].end |
22646.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].text |
这张图是从川普总统第45任到拜登总统46任到现在他回来第47任美国作为一个强权影响整个市局它可以运用的所谓的地缘战略地缘政治地缘经济它的组合运用它这里面在这个虚线圈圈里面涵盖了20个选项 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].start |
22647.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].end |
22673.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].text |
那至于他把你排出15个肮脏国这个他认为贸易不均等那是他的方法那至于他的手段呢这里面就产生了一个施压作为的不定性一个反复无常那对美国来讲他看到利可是必能可能是周遭国家承担因此我们要有我们的方法论去面对这个而不是说等他出招我们做反应虽然我们现在 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].start |
22673.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].end |
22702.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].text |
在您这边召集的会议下880亿后面会有很多深入的看法但是只是对于关税但是对于外汇存底美债啦汇率啦黄金储存啦这个我们内部啊当然跨部会要有一个更深入的这个协商那这个这是一个方法论啊就是我们来解看啊川普总统他的目的是美国利益优先 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].start |
22703.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].end |
22732.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].text |
美国再次伟大那他的方法是什么呢他采用了新霸权主义新重商手艺新孤立主义以及新工业主义目的方法他还有的手段他的手段非常厉害双重标准两手策略左右换力内外折中因此对于这个外面四个轴向我们再去看我们对事情判断通常有八个不同的面向就是主观的 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].start |
22734.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].end |
22759.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].text |
客觀的宏觀的圍乾的樂觀的悲觀的前瞻的反思的對這個不同的面向組合再去參考中國大陸的聚焦跟美國的聚焦我們在中間選擇什麼樣的選項這裡面沒有最佳方案只是一個除錯方案提供你選項中間哪些不理想的你可以把它太除那雖然這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].start |
22760.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].end |
22787.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].text |
这很多是结合了西方的兵学思想跟我们的孙子兵法这个概念上八种组合八种不同的面向就64个种甚至再有交错组合我们甚至可以产生512个选项但不是选项来支持你哪个好而是在选项过程中把不确定因素对我们不利的先太除就说犯错的机会比较少那这个方法论是未来我想提供我们的智库 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].start |
22788.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].end |
22805.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].text |
或者是学员单位做成一个政策建言提供我们政府做一个参考那这个呢就是这一次美中竞合外交部用的字是竞合是讲美国有竞争跟合作 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].start |
22807.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].end |
22824.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].text |
這competition corporation叫做competition但是也可能是美中鍛煉脫鉤結構那這種情況下他選了這五個國家比方講包括這個英國澳洲印度日本韓國這五個國家如何在中間博弈他的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].start |
22826.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].end |
22848.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].text |
理論啊那這是一種方法論我覺得我們智庫可以做那同樣這五個國家他們自己彼此之間私下怎麼協商因為他們有的還是參與一帶一路所以中國大陸也在帶風向所以這個情況下我們對自己的角色定位以及調節的空間有多少我覺得要有一點方法論而不是用單面的論述那這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].start |
22853.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].end |
22869.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].text |
我也是提供贵院以及我们政府部门希望参考,我们需要一个国家安全战略,里面产生国内环境的影响,还有国际环境的冲突,左右各列了12项。 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].start |
22870.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].end |
22896.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].text |
那他的目的呢是最後能夠做風險評估對於聚焦在兩岸情勢外交政策國防政策經濟政策能源政策資安政策人口政策社會的韌性做一個客觀的分析最後產生的國家安全戰略是什麼呢是促進繁榮社會和諧維護主權保護民主和平必戰強化安全這個是我們國家安全戰略的目標那根據這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].start |
22898.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].end |
22920.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].text |
赖总统的17条啊我们发现这17条里面他也不是同样的百分比例聚焦在哪一点上那我们看到这点当然我们还有未来这个努力这个精进的空间就是一直强调国家安全战略不只是从上到下垂直的政策指导还有一个就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].start |
22921.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].end |
22942.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].text |
水平的跨部會的協商承擔不同的任務責任但是並不是相同的百分比那這個有一個戰略的框架指導會對我們未來施政上有更好的幫助那這個最後一張圖啊我們可以看到這個美國開啟了全球貿易制裁與中共這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].start |
22944.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].end |
22960.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].text |
嘴巴上乐意是讲进河了那会不会锻炼脱钩目前还看不出来我觉得永远他保留一个手法就是说他有一个妥协折中他的底线但他不会明讲那我们的外交经贸战略的因应呢我们用 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].start |
22961.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].end |
22978.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].text |
這個例子就是台積電這次我們看出來了他完全反映出把地緣經濟地緣政治地緣戰略串結成一個一個整體那在這個裡面的供應鏈裡面是相互供應鏈如果在這個時候把台積電的功能去掉 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].start |
22979.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].end |
23003.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].text |
那人人都是输家所以我相信我们坚持台积电在国内的持续发展在国外投资但是因为互为供应链就是相互依托谁都不能少谁所以看得到这个地缘经济他考虑的人口位置贸易源头产业链路地缘战略军事布局威泽赫祖维护利益 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].start |
23004.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].end |
23014.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].text |
地緣政治這個講白了就是我們講了就是說國家的利益優先合縱連橫第二個我們看到這些大國強權他一定是雙標雙軌 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].start |
23019.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].end |
23037.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].text |
这个没有说是从头到尾一贯一致的因此在这种情况下我们需要有一个国家安全战略我们的战略目标是牵动邻国的利益营造区域的平衡巩固贸易源头强化产业的链路多元确保多元生存的缝隙 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].start |
23038.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].end |
23046.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].text |
那這樣子有利於我們的外交部局精進軍事能量運用以小牽大虛實聯動正齊相生的合縱連橫 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].start |
23048.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].end |
23074.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].text |
那最后一个我们常常讲我们跟很多友好国家是同路人但是我是查了一些别的资料同路未必同道同道不同德同德不同心同心不同人同人不同调好朋友里面的分寸捏拿中间也不见得是完全是coherent同调的我想今天的问证以上的题目请院长做一个参考 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].start |
23075.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].end |
23098.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].text |
我們站在質詢的過程中間也是代表人民監督在同樣另一個角色上其實是互動學習我看到台沙過去我們很多的工作同仁只是因為今天角色換過來了我站在這邊也可以想到當年我站在對面的時候也被質詢過所以我們講這是互動學習我特別請院長給我們一些指教 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].start |
23099.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].end |
23127.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].text |
非常感謝委員每次聆聽委員的高見我真的是獲益良多更深深感受委員在準備這麼豐富 詳盡而且是非常難得的資料當中的用心尤其你剛剛在對17項總統在國安高層會議的對照裡面關於人口對策人工智慧 醫療 交通 金融體系沒有在17項當中那我們會也許之前 之後都會在其他來彌補 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].start |
23128.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].end |
23151.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].text |
我想這個就是國家整個一體那這段時間我們也做了多項的城市韌性以及全社會韌性的相關演習我們從演習跟演練當中期待能夠再發現一些不足之處可以做更有效率的來補充那麼尤其是委員一直強調國家安全策戰略 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].start |
23152.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].end |
23167.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].text |
國家的確需要一個安全的戰略那這個安全戰略委員當然是非常的專業那我你我應該共同認知到這個安全戰略是在憲法架構下以總統統帥權為主衍生到各部會 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].start |
23168.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].end |
23182.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].text |
我們從資訊的收集到最後面的執行面都是在做憲法的架構總統的統帥前這樣完整底下去做的安全架構這個倒是非常感謝委員能夠這樣來提醒那麼我一再也強調說我們在跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].start |
23185.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].end |
23202.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].text |
美國在這一次的關稅爭議的談判當中我們一直以國內的產業支持為優先出發再來就是我們從過去到現在備妥了方案希望能夠緊迫的最佳時間跟美方進行談判談判的過程 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].start |
23203.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].end |
23220.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].text |
在以爭取國家最大最大的利益維護產業國際競爭力讓國人能夠安心三項原則來進行那跟委員報告這個工作到目前進行我們仍然是在最優先行列的國家當中我們已經在4月11號 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].start |
23221.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].end |
23249.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].text |
有第一次的視訊會議現在雙方就視訊會議的內容再做更多的詳實精進希望期待最近的時間內很快的有一個更好的這個共通來處理雙方經貿產生的問題然而在這個國際經貿局勢大變的時候台灣應該有累積到國家的能量跟各國尤其包括跟美國我們採取更公平穩定的貿易關係這絕對有利於我們未來在 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].start |
23250.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].end |
23276.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].text |
科技產業供應鏈上領先地位的繼續的發揮所以以上這幾項都是總統在歷次會議當中明確的指示行政院也現在將17項的因應措施後續的一些立法修法計工程計劃還有設施計劃的一個整體結構都已經在著手進行適當的時機我們就會拿出來討論我也始終認為台灣不能有戰後英雄 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].start |
23277.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].end |
23297.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].text |
台灣要有一個能夠帶領台灣走向和平的一個國家領導人我想賴總統也是秉持這樣的自我的責任感所以他才提出說我們對國防安全我們國防預算能夠在我們財政合宜的許可之下以基於我們自己國防之所需對於設備的興構 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].start |
23299.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].end |
23320.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].text |
我們可以達到GDP3%這樣的目標那麼今年我們嘗試要往這個目標來邁進當然這個是國家整體的財政結構的問題所以在多項的委員提到的過程當中總統也在日前有一個講話那麼我再替他來做一些說明從過去的西進 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].start |
23321.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].end |
23348.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].text |
到南向到東拓其實現在我們講究的是北和希望能夠有同步的發生同步建立好的關係我們當然我們會有除錯的選擇但是我們認為全世界四海之內都可以成為兄弟所以我們現在立足台灣到佈局全球到行銷全世界我們只是在中間加了一個加強美國這是為產業而做的希望產業不要因為關稅問題喪失了自己的國際競爭力 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].start |
23351.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].end |
23374.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].text |
或者就國內的市場也變成這個物價開始上漲起來所以加強美國到美國投資到美國採購這都是政府的政策在這同時我們除了希望雙邊能夠基於共同利益得到一個對關稅的合理協議之外未來我們也也會顧慮到是否有中國的貨品低價反傾向台灣造成我們國內各項的問題以及經過台灣違規轉運到國 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].start |
23379.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].end |
23402.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].text |
美國到世界各地去讓我們在國際貿易的信任度上被打折這個也是目前我們在做的我相信這個在您提出的包括經濟 軍事 外交三方面要來就國家安全的考量這個方向跟現在政府的走向是一樣的容許未來有更多的機會向委員再來一一的請教在這幾個當中關於我們的 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].start |
23402.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].end |
23412.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].text |
全體性的 全國性的甚至全球性的戰略思考跟戰略的構成我們希望跟委員我再能夠有機會再向委員來請教 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].start |
23414.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].end |
23438.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].text |
最後我再跟您提出一個建議就是當國防預算在增加的過程中不只是向美方採購重要的軍事裝備或者是國內培養我們國防產業的基礎另外一個就是人才的培養我們軍事教育的經費要增加特別謝謝謝謝謝謝委員我們大家共同努力謝謝謝謝陳委員謝謝卓院長下一位 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].start |
23444.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].end |
23454.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].text |
林郡縣委員之質詢已書面提出請行政院書面答覆並列入記錄刊登公報下一位請徐巧欣委員質詢謝謝謝謝主席那我們有請這個卓院長請卓院長備詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].start |
23484.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].end |
23492.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].text |
其實呢昨天國人最關心的議題呢就是這個護照的問題我想要先請教一下在2024年的時候我們規劃印製的2025年的護照是規劃印製多少本所以你也不清楚嗎那我直接講 請說 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].start |
23507.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].end |
23528.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].text |
我們根據歷年來的印製護照量我們去年確實是規劃印製180萬本所以去年預計規劃是180萬本然後你們其實護照過去都是不夠的時候會有加印而且常常會比如說現在不夠了那就再加印再加印 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].start |
23529.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].end |
23552.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].text |
這個沒有錯嘛昨天林佳龍部長也有說所以確實我們在去年的時候規劃的是180萬本而不是後來追加的209萬本好那再來呢根據2024年的估算值呢其實跟林佳龍部長說的只能印185萬本差不多不是嗎所以209萬這個數字是在什麼時候才增加出來的 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].start |
23553.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].end |
23557.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].text |
好 報告委員 先講2024的時候我們總共印製了285萬本那209萬本是根據今年1月到4月總共 180萬吧 前面對 現在180萬本嘛 209萬本是什麼時候決定 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].start |
23572.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].end |
23594.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].text |
根據需要我們一定要因為要節省工廠我們不能一下印太多那什麼時候決定改成從180改成209萬本你具體告訴我的時候最近不是因為1到4月我們的使用的護照大概用了70幾萬本那根據這個1到4月70萬本我們預估今年會使用到209萬本所以這件事情跟商運算有什麼關係啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].start |
23595.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].end |
23617.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].text |
本來你就是可以印185萬本然後呢實際上面你的預算可以印180萬本只差5萬本而已你在4月的時候增加變成要加印到209萬本那也是事後的事情了不是嗎那也是在所謂的預算之後所發生的事情不是嗎你剛剛的時序講得非常的清楚就是如此啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].start |
23618.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].end |
23628.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].text |
好那再来呢如果说过去好我要问下一个问题了过去2023年的这个护照护照的编列预算2023年2023年那可以印几本2023年 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].start |
23634.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].end |
23656.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].text |
2023年我們本來原來編列了6億多可以印130多萬本但是後來因為那個不足因為COVID-19的關係所以後來有很高的需求量對不對對因為那個COVID-19結束之後那個需求突然暴增所以原本預計印幾本後來印了幾本後來印製348萬本本來預計印幾本 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].start |
23662.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].end |
23674.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].text |
本來預計136萬本所以從136萬本變成348萬本那中間那個數字呢是用什麼樣的方式支出的照你們來說預算不夠啊沒有錢啊對 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].start |
23677.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].end |
23693.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].text |
應該是後來有追加預算去把它印出來追加預算我們本來應該在裡面的業務費印出來院長你隔壁的市場說是用追加預算的方式你們確定嗎就是我們裡面的業務費有公主的費用是嗎我們看一下來 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].start |
23700.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].end |
23724.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].text |
你們是用第二日備金做支出啊剛剛都在跟我胡扯亂講一通啊一百一十二年度動用了第二日備金的九億兩千四百五十萬一千元來支應所以我的意思是說如果你們四月的時候你的估值需要加印一百八十萬的本本的部分不夠的話你當然可以像之前一樣動用第二日備金有錯嗎院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].start |
23726.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].end |
23750.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].text |
第二預備金的使用有它法定的原因跟項目當然 可是問題是 院長剛才他所說囉他說原本我們今年度的預算是要編180萬本是4月的時候才追加到需要209萬本所以本來就不含在預算裡面的話那請問是不是如果你要加印是動用第二預備金就像是當時疫情過後那個樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].start |
23752.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].end |
23779.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].text |
你有剛剛有聽到說嗎是四月的時候才認為有加印的需求在去年年度編列預算的時候是認為說呢只需要180萬本而已跟最後的185萬本相差不多所以額外新增在四月新增的部分是不是動用預備金可以做呢為什麼不做跟委員報告第二預備金使用有它的法定的條件原因那如果這個預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].start |
23780.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].end |
23790.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].text |
上次用的這個預算是用到沒有錯如果他裡面自己的業務費用足夠我們看業務費用如果足夠的話可以使用對不對來我問一下去年113年我們編列我們招標了180萬的晶片護照是花了多少錢來次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].start |
23808.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].end |
23822.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].text |
七點就是去年我們編了多少180萬本的晶片護照去絕標出去嗎我這邊看到是去年我們總共印了285萬本不是啦我問的今年我們花了我們印了180萬本的絕標這個部分是多少錢9億9千萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].start |
23831.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].end |
23858.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].text |
是7億3嘛因為9億是你整個總預算編列的金額但是你們當初4月絕標的時候180萬本的部分是7億3我意思是說你們如果連我問這麼清楚的數字都搞不清楚的話國人這麼關心這個議題你要大家怎麼去信任你們呢好然後再來去年預算書我們今年的預算書我們對護照的印製編列金額是多少你剛剛已經講了就是9.9億嘛對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].start |
23860.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].end |
23885.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].text |
好 那一般事務費統三百分之十之後在這個項目裡面還有多少能夠使用的請問 院長你剛剛問一般業務費在這個項目裡面還有多少錢可以用一般業務費被統三百分之十之後這個外交部還有多少的金額可以來就是這個護照的部分嘛剛剛你算啊 我們來算數學嘛剛剛講說我們有編了9.9億沒有錯吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].start |
23889.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].end |
23894.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].text |
對 編了9.9億之後是廢統310%之後剩下多少8.9億吧對 蘇玄沒有錯吧8.9億之後扣掉了7.3億的180萬本護照之後剩下多少1億多好 1.58億嘛一本護照的平均成本是多少400多嘛所以除下來你還有39萬本可以印耶 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].start |
23918.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].end |
23931.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].text |
你們自己根本數學都沒有算清楚所以在那邊胡講一些東西讓大家都覺得說哎呀是因為什麼預算的問題不是是因為你們數學根本不好的問題喔在接下來我要問下一個問題了關稅談判那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].start |
23934.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].end |
23956.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].text |
你先回答一下我剛剛所提示的這些部分好不好就到底為什麼外交部會告訴我們是這個樣子我剛剛數學我們回到上一張數學因算給大家看了到底為什麼明明有39萬本可以印然後我們告訴大家說我們是不夠的我一再強調很多預算預算本身被刪的部分或是沒有刪或許燙不足以 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].start |
23958.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].end |
23980.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].text |
影響這個本項預算但是業務費刪掉之後其他很多人我問的就是晶片護照的部分而已嘛我今天只針對晶片護照你從過去的本來規劃的180萬本到4月多了這個變成209萬本你不去使用二倍金你4月才多出來你不去使用二倍金就算了你還想用一般業務費 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].start |
23981.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].end |
23982.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].text |
預算也許沒有影響到 但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].start |
24005.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].end |
24018.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].text |
很多的業務費被刪掉之後要來做這項工作的業務費甚至包括人事費用都被刪減了我給你看啦還有39萬本的扣打是可以印的嘛你還有1.58億耶你的統三之後還有那我問你嘛是不是還有1.58億來 有或沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].start |
24026.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].end |
24038.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].text |
外交部在執行發包的時候他們非常的節儉非常的用心把它縮下來了所以過去180萬本的這個部分在今年4月有做決標嘛決標之後才新增了要變成209萬本嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].start |
24040.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].end |
24052.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].text |
但是209萬本的這個數字即使在今年你們在錯估的時候他們當時編沒有編那麼多本現在要增加之後你還是有多出1.58億的業務費可以印39萬本的護照 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].start |
24056.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].end |
24078.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].text |
為什麼不做呢所以好了兩個結論一你可以用業務費來使用對不對二有39萬本報告委員我們並沒有不做我現在講說現在預算正好我們沒有說你不做我是說你們說有缺啊你們是說10月份就印不出來啦但是我算給你看並不是這樣嘛所以兩個管道第一業務費還有剩餘1.58億 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].start |
24080.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].end |
24101.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].text |
第二 如果真的不夠的話法定的第二預備金過去你們就是這樣做的接下來我要問關稅談判的問題我們呢 延了這個90天所以我們也希望政府能夠一切談判順利但是我想要問一下我們現在目前有沒有在做具體的影響評估報告給民眾跟產業 院長我們跟產業界舉行了 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].start |
24106.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].end |
24123.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].text |
民眾民眾我知道產業界有舉行一般的民眾我們提供了190線的專線電話專線電話讓我們自己打進去就對了那另外支持這個產業的880億你會不會覺得過於保守我們是衡量事情發生之後各種 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].start |
24124.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].end |
24128.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].text |
第一推估 剛高推估到來提高的推估所算出來的現在產業界也認為在某些個項目上應該要開始我認為應該要提高而且我會支持那再來呢 我要問說那既然你們說都有評估嘛還有專線可以打電話進去嘛那我想問喔 因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].start |
24141.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].end |
24166.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].text |
三十多趴雖然他現在延九十天可是他們其實規定裡面有一個基礎的基本的百分之十那仍然會對每一個國家都造成攻擊包括中華民國那我請問一下說你們有評估那在基礎關稅十趴的狀況下我是台北市的立委我想要請教主要會受到影響的產業大概你們分析評估有哪一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].start |
24167.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].end |
24182.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].text |
大的產業還是在我們在台北市的產業要往美國的大宗物品當中電子通訊業這個為主就是包括它的顯示卡制服器等等這個才是影響最大的其他有關係的就是未來我們進行 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].start |
24183.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].end |
24199.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].text |
排除非關稅貿易障礙的農產品農產品的部分我列為很重要的談判的內容那這樣子的一個10%的衝擊就你們的評估占台北市的營業額百分之多少你們有評估過嗎針對各縣市的評估 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].start |
24201.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].end |
24216.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].text |
我手上是沒有針對各縣市評估的沒有針對各縣市去評估只有全國性沒有各縣市因為每一個縣市他產業發展不一樣他所會在10%或32%的關稅衝擊上也完全不一樣所以您今天告訴我的是沒有針對區域去做評估只有全國去做評估 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].start |
24220.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].end |
24226.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].text |
不同產業可是每一個縣市的他的產業別跟他的產業比例跟他的產業人數都不一樣啊如果你只做全國性的跟產業別的沒有針對縣市的話我認為是不夠的院長你不覺得嗎那我們會在這個談判到最後 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].start |
24236.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].end |
24242.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].text |
最終要定案之前如果它是一個絕境的數字我告訴您 實際上我已經去算了針對台北市總計營業額會影響5%左右影響到的業者大概有2800多家還有年營收會影響到台北市的9200億元這個是在10%的金儲關稅之下所算出來的數字 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].start |
24260.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].end |
24276.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].text |
所以我希望我們在評估的時候不要只針對產業別然後全國性的評估也應該針對每一個縣市去做評估這樣子會更精確的在後期談判的時候能夠更精確的做出決定好嗎 院長這個部分應該可以吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].start |
24277.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].end |
24296.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].text |
各縣市不同的狀況對呀 各縣市不同的狀況好像不是那麼急迫但是我會要求我們做這樣的評估這最基本都要有的嘛全國性的 產業性的 然後區域性的不都應該分成三個階層嗎現在變成我們國家台北 台中 高雄各種不同的衝擊這個放到未來談判桌來談的機會應該是不大 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].start |
24300.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].end |
24313.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].text |
因為你不是剛剛有講專線嗎那我是台北市的市民我要問說那對台北市的影響有多大的時候那請問電話客服人員要怎麼回答我啊他根本沒有相關的數據嘛你是什麼樣的產業那你目前訂單有沒有什麼削減那我們要來問下一個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].start |
24320.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].end |
24339.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].text |
針對台灣跟美國之間的關稅談判我們可以看到日本首相他是非常強硬的表態包含他說過守護日本的農業然後美債不宜當關稅盤盤標的日本人的軍費日本人自己決定匯率要按照公平原則安全貿易不應該一起討論我想請問一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].start |
24342.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].end |
24356.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].text |
日本他很具體的向美國說明他們的要求跟底線我想問一下關於關稅貿易壁壘的問題如果美國要求不得標示非基因改造食品行政院這裡會同意嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].start |
24357.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].end |
24385.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].text |
我們這次談判的原則也是爭取國家最大利益維持產業國際競爭力所以有可能會同意排除這個關稅貿易障礙的這個議題裡面有非常多項我剛剛就只問你基因改造食品工業的項目當中我們可以合理討論工業的部分在雙方接觸底下四個標示美豬牛的產地這個部分我們會堅守嗎這個原則第一個國人的健康最優先所以剛剛講兩個你們都會堅守嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].start |
24394.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].end |
24415.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].text |
好,謝謝許委員,謝謝卓院長。抱歉,現在在議場二樓的貴賓席的是我們來自美國國會助理訪問團的好朋友們,我們在這邊歡迎他們。Let's welcome the US Congressional Staff Delegation in our house. |
| transcript.whisperx[552].start |
24415.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].end |
24415.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].text |
Thank you. |
| transcript.whisperx[553].start |
24420.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].end |
24434.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].text |
法院會本日排定質詢的委員均與質詢完畢謝謝卓院長及相關部會首長列席答詢做以下決定下次會進行經濟組織質詢法院會繼續處理復議案本院民進黨黨團針對第七次 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].start |
24440.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].end |
24452.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].text |
會議報告四項第四案之決定提出覆議請公決案現在做以下決定令定期處理報告院會本次會議進行到此為止現在散會 |