| IVOD_ID |
16604 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16604 |
| 日期 |
2025-04-21 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-15-12 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期內政委員會第12次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
12 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
15 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
內政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期內政委員會第12次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2025-04-21T08:30:17+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-04-21T11:25:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
02:54:43 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/eeffa975d6a1e3eab8f3324780817fde1097cfa4245e4149bd9360bdedb085229d6e57bef30d523e5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-04-21T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期內政委員會第12次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查委員牛煦庭等17人擬具「行政區劃法草案」案。二、審查委員邱鎮軍等18人擬具「行政區劃法草案」案。【僅詢答及宣讀提案條文】） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:30:17 - 11:25:00 |
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1835.233 |
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1839.197 |
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大家早安 請主任秘書報告出席人數我們現在開會進行報告事項 請宣讀上次會議意思錄 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
1849.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
1872.498 |
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立法院第十一届第三会情念证委员会第十一次全体委员会议议事录时间114年4月17日星期四上午9时2分至11时56分地点红楼202会议室出席委员苏巧慧委员等13人练习委员洪孟凯委员等12人请假委员丁学忠委员1人练习官员海洋委员会主任委员管碧玲记相关人员主席张昭记委员洪录 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
1873.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
1889.47 |
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報告事項 宣讀上次會議議事錄決定確定二 邀請海洋委員會主任委員衰童所屬列席報告業務概況並備質詢海洋委員會主任委員管碧玲報告委員張志倫等19人質詢分別由海洋委員會主任委員管碧玲及相關人員答覆說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
1890.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
1914.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
決定一登記發言委員除不在場者外其餘均與發言完畢詢答結束二委員丁雪忠所提書面質詢列入記錄刊登公報三書面質詢及未及答覆部分請相關機關於一週內另以書面答覆並複製本會宣讀完畢好謝謝請問各位委員上次會議意思錄有錯誤或遺留之處沒有好謝謝意思錄確定那我們現在繼續進行討論事項請宣讀 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
1917.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
1941.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
1審查委員劉許廷等17人擬拘行政區劃罰草案案2審查委員邱振軍等18人擬拘行政區劃罰草案案宣讀完畢好那本日議程所列討論事項我們就合併詢答現在介紹在場委員及列席的官員委員的部分首先是張志倫委員王美惠委員還有黃婕委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
1947.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
1960.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
官員部分 我們內政部 劉思芳部長人民委員會常務副主任委員 鍾欣華還有我們財政部國庫署 林秀燕副處長 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
1964.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
1980.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
好謝謝那提案說明的部分因為這個我們就不特別說明所以今天我們就不進行提案說明我們待會尋答的時候再一併處理現在請內政部劉思芳部長針對行政缺化法的部分進行報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
1986.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
2007.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
周委主席还有各位委员女士先生大家早首先对于各位委员就内政业务推动的关注跟指导表达由衷感谢那今天内政委员会审查由牛许婷委员等人所提报的这个行政区划法还有邱振军委员等所分别提的行政区划法的草案共计两案 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
2008.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
2033.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
那內政部應邀列席報告跟備詢深感榮幸那緊究行政區劃法相關規定跟本部的推動情形委員的提案說明請各位委員來參考按照憲法第108條第一項的規定行政區劃由中央立法並執行之或交由省縣執行之現行法律有關行政區劃的規定目前在地方製度法 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
2034.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
2052.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
只有改制直轄市以及相關的配套而村裡邊阻調整則授權地方訂定自治法規具以辦理其餘涉及直轄市縣或者是括號市還有鄉還有鎮市區的新設廢址或調整等都需要另依法律規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
2053.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
2068.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
為了因應各界對於行政區劃法制度法制化的要求本部從81年開始推動行政區劃相關的立法工作有六度報到行政院含送大院來審議但是都沒有完成立法 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
2068.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
2082.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
那顯示就是還需要凝聚最大的共識所以內政部最近一次是在109年12月21日將行政區劃的程序法的草案函報行政院審查當中那內政部並且已經針對行政院所審查所提立法原則一議在111年辦理專家學者的諮詢會議以及112年辦理委託研究 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
2093.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
2116.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
並且在113年將內政部所嚴處的意見請行政院參酌繼續審議有關大院牛許廷委員等人的提案版本第12條以及邱振軍委員等人提案版本的第11條均有涉及將行政區劃程序納入公民投票的機制但是仍然有部分有待斟酌的地方說明如此 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
2117.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2134.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
首先現行公民投票法是為禁止行政區劃相關事項作為公民投票的提案但究竟適用全國性或地方性的公民投票如何界定各種行政區劃類型公民投票之提案人連署人以及投票權人的範圍等並會 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
2136.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2154.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
是不是會產生相關區域的人數多寡衍生投票公平性的問題都值得進一步的探討以凝聚共識其次內政部在112年辦理的委託研究當中其中關於行政區化與公民投票關聯議題的研究結果主要認為以 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2156.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2176.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
各國所推動的行政區劃經驗來講公民投票並非必然的程序如果為了強化公民參與的機制公民投票也不是唯一的方法另外行政區劃程序當中所採取的公民投票方式將面臨如何決定辦理公民投票的主管機關經費以及如何決定通過額度的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2178.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2189.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
一併提供給委員了解跟參考最後內政部已經就現行行政區劃的相關規定行政區劃所涉及公民投票部分在書面報告當中有較詳細的說明也請各委員參考指教謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2194.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2223.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
好 謝謝劉思芳部長的說明其他單位的報告我們就請委員自行參閱我們會刊登公報現在進行詢答委員質詢前遠離座以下幾點宣告第一 本會委員發言時間五分鐘必要時得延長一分鐘非本會委員發言時間五分鐘上午十點三十分截止發言登記第二 因為今天法案處理我們本次會議不處理臨時提案請問各位有沒有意見沒有好 謝謝那現在進行詢答我們先請登記第一位的張志倫委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2234.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2238.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
好謝謝主席各位委員各位官員大家早我們請劉世芳劉部長劉部長有請 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2247.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2272.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
張委員早部長早今天非常感謝我們召委主席今天排這個有關於行政區劃法草案的審查會首先要跟我們部長報告一下因為本席是來自於新北市中和區也是過去台北縣升格為新北市的範圍內中和區跟部長報告中和區以前叫中和鄉 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2277.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2298.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
中和軍後來升格就是因為有帝制法的關係升格以後變成中和式跟永和式然後升格完了以後其實大家一開始是蠻開心的那台北縣也升為新北市那升格完了以後過去還沒升格前我們可以用帝制法來處理那剛剛其實部長有特別報告說升格為新北市了以後那我們是希望說 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2299.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2318.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
升格為新北市以後比如說台北縣改為新北市成為直轄市了以後是本來的目的是想要平衡城鄉跟行政區的一些差異那可是因為升格了以後其實我們過去的台北縣也是29個鄉鎮市區那升格了以後變成新北市還是29個這個鄉鎮市區就變成說升格了以後 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2321.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2341.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
因為現在沒有行政區劃法的一個可以讓我們調整比如說中和區、永和區、板橋區等等這些的原因了以後導致變成行政區的範圍一致那人口面積不變導致說我們現在比較擔心的是在我們現在沒有相關的行政區劃法的 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2342.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2366.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
的這些法令下我們的行政區沒辦法調整反而導致我們現在當時的利益良善可是變成現在有些區的自治表現跟自理能力上呈現衰退就是有些區可能因為以新北市的角度來講他要照顧每一個區可是有些區的有一些的比如說人口數等等的一些差異導致原本的利益良善的部分導致現在會有一些發展 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2368.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2390.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
的一些平衡的一些問題所以我們認為說修整這些行政區劃法有它的必要性所以本席在這邊也跟部長報告我們提供的數字給您像我們以我現在在的一個地方我們在的是中和區中和區有40多萬人那可是我們以區公所的緣額才151個人 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2392.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2414.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
所以顧名思有一個區公所的人要平均服務的是大概兩千多名的我們的里民那以比如說比較我們新北市比較偏向的一些區我們不要講特定的區好了可是以這個人口數的比例算起來的話大概一個區公所的人員平均服務大概兩到三百個我們的這個鄉親跟里民 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2414.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2438.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
所以可以看到將近有10倍的一個差距所以變成說新北市他要平均服務每一個區域的時候可是會造成我們會擔心有些行政資源上的一些的沒辦法去普及我們所有的這個鄉親所以我認為這也是這個主席我們招委今天提這個草案修法的一個過程所以是不是先請教部長針對現在的行政區劃 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2439.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2467.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
可能會影響到行政治理造成資源分配不公比如說像我也跟這個部長報告像過去這個COVID-19的時間我們比如說區公所的人也非常辛苦我們衛生局的人也非常辛苦就是因為這些行政區分法造成的一些問題大家有時候會比較苦不堪言或者甚至有些公共建設的重複投資而且我們現在跨區比如說每個區要跨區其實串聯上也相對的困難 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2468.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2486.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
內政部剛剛有提說從81年修法到109年到111年到113年你們有沒有辦法針對現在的現象提出具體的檢討以及你們現在有沒有修法現在已經提到行政院的部分有沒有一個具體的時效來幫助現在沒有行政區劃法所產生的一些問題請部長回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2489.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2507.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
謝謝張委員對於行政區劃法的重視張委員所提到的部分大概所涉及的不會只有行政區劃法包括地方制度法您剛有提到中和鄉升格成中和市後來中和市不管怎麼樣台北縣又升格成新北市這裡面又牽涉到財政收支劃分法 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2510.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2515.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
所以事實上可以看得出來就是要解決委員所在綜合的地方所產生的問題的話行政區劃法、地方制度法跟財政收支劃分法這是三個基本的方向如果現在再加上牛委員跟邱委員所提到的是公民投票的話這再加上四個 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2528.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2535.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
四個法律那既然有這個四個法律案的時候其實在最早前我們在109年的時候有報到行政院去在討論到這些問題的時候大概要從公平性還有它的生態圈的發展 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2544.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2560.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
還有是否呢居民是否這個會同意這樣的方向三個來研議但是呢確實複雜因為每個地區的缺點或是優點呢大家都各不相同要你依據共識寫成條文呢確實有困擾那但是呢如果剛剛委員所提到的就是說你認為行政區劃法要如何的更改會更能夠切應委員所關心的這個綜合的這個問題的話呢我們願意聽聽委員的高見 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2570.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2590.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
是 我認為這個部分是不是跟部長報告一下就是說月前81年已經透過相關的這個修法已經開始啟動了那您剛剛有報告從111年113年其實現在的其實內政部你們是有你們的版本現在送給行政院那不知道說行政院剛剛也可能是考量部長的一些想法 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2591.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2613.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
然後現在還是在做整個的審查當中可是我要跟部長報告就是依照地方制度法七支三條其實裡面就已經有規定說就是要依照這個地方制度法的部分就是做相關的執法所以也拜託部長這邊看是說看是說是不是大家可以來討論看看辦一些公聽會還是說怎麼樣的一些方式可以讓大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2613.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2634.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
越來越聚焦然後讓這個整個行政區劃法可以有一個這個進展我相信因為我也剛剛跟部長報告過了比如說里長像我們新北市的里長其實一個里幹事他要服務好幾個里長那我就比如說像我剛剛也跟跟部長特別說明的比如說疫情期間各區造成很多的 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2635.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2659.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
辛苦的一個部分所以還是要拜託部長這邊可以來幫忙一下好那今天我還是在最後實際的關係來做一個結論就是說行政區劃法對於這些有升格的直轄縣市我認為是一個在他整個整個治理的一個重構的一個關鍵所以我還是要拜託部長是不是可以加速請行政院來做一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2660.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2677.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
這個進度或者是開一些公聽會不能讓這個行政區劃法只是變成一個走現在走程序我們應該大家一起來努力讓整個我們所有深隔的直轄市的各區可以未來的發展可以一個更好的一個方向以上謝謝好謝謝張志倫委員下一位我們請張宏祿召委 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2694.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2720.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
好來我請部長跟這個地政司司長劉市長地政司司長有請那民政司司長也留著我兩個都跟著民政司司長我兩個都兩個都叫好那就張檢仁視察跟蘇檢仁視察請一起跟鄭市長不好意思民政跟地政 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2723.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2742.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
好,我先請問一下啦,這個如果地方的這個區域重劃或什麼的啊除了民政的之外啊,我要請問一下,那個其他的地政資料啊或什麼資料是不是也要重新來? |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2746.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2761.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
結論上事務所的服務的部分其實有些是跨轄區的部分不是啦我是說比如說我本來是在這一個裡換去別的裡我們這樣簡單一點你們的地震資料要不要也要趕 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2762.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2778.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
有可能因為行政區域調整之後他的事務所服務的區域會變動那所以可能地址資料部分可能要重新調整也要嘛好謝謝那你可以先回去我為什麼要請第一任司長先講 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2780.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2802.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
行政區劃法我個人認為重新劃分尤其是行政區劃法我認為是有討論的必要然後台灣這麼小其實現在維持市級政府其實我也覺得沒有什麼特別的必要要維持這樣所以行政區劃法我認為是可以討論但它的牽涉就又更廣了如果你有任何的改變 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2804.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2826.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
每個人民從他的身份證 從他的很多的資料是不是全部都要改啊 我請問一下部長是 當然都要改當然都要改嘛 改應該要花不少錢吧對嘛 部長這個錢應該非常的多啦真的是非常多所以行政區的話 我認為是要討論 但 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2828.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2844.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
可能他牽扯到的法令還有財政收支劃分法還有地方制度法等等很多都要一併連動都要一併連動所以其實就我所知啦在行政院齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2845.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2869.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
他之前也有提過一個草案但後來因為大家的意見非常的多然後反映出來也是必須應該去檢討解決的事情所以在那次提出之後我們行政院內政部是不是也繼續廣徵各方的意見這個事情現在還在做是不是啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2870.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2878.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
對 我們在112年的時候有委託研究那現在把研究的結果在9月多的時候有送到行政院來參考 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2880.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2905.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
那裡面涉及到的部分就是說他的疑義啦就是說地方製度法跟行政區劃法如何做借階還有這個鄉鎮市區的行政區是否授權由地方政府來決定那這個地方製度法還有行政區劃的審議跟核定還有是否適合作為公民投票這幾項到目前為止這個學者專家或者是地方上的一些這個地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2908.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2924.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
政府都有不同的看法因為他們自己本身所碰到的問題都不相同對啦因為該檢討的事情我們應該要去檢討去面對但這是一個知識體大我個人一直認為說要來討論這個問題但必須要討論的完整因為呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2929.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
2953.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
如果一個地區它的行政區域的重劃我們不可能兩三年重劃一次吧可能這個一次啊就用了50年100年了所以這個必須要好好的去思考啦那個我請教師長一下這個可能你比較清楚師長日本平成大合併這件事你知道嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
2956.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
2984.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
你知道啦那結果他後來造成了什麼的影響成鄉差距是有影響我直接跟市長你講好了啦日本的平成大合併他也是遇到跟我們現在討論的問題是一模一樣的日本也是面對這個問題但平成大合併之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
2985.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
3013.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
他們並沒有解決所有的問題他們就是像我剛剛說的只有從行政區化的調整然後他們日本有一些很小的鄉鎮把小鄉鎮兩個變成一個但後來也沒有解決問題反而窮的還是越來越窮沒有錢的還是沒有錢所以平成大合併它就是跟我們現在討論的一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
3014.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
3041.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
他就是要解決這些問題結果問題沒有解決那我們要藉經日本的經驗我們今天要討論這個行政區域法法討論是應該的但剛剛我所講的相關的法令的配套也要一併討論才能徹底的解決啦是不是啊市長是的所以市長我跟你講我建議你可以把平成大合併這些拿出來再給大家看一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
3041.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
3068.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
日本犯的錯我們不要再同樣犯錯日本的平成大合併可能大家都沒有去關注我那時候我就覺得哇有破例我就一直看他的資料結果咧有破例是一件事情沒有解決問題是一件更嚴重的事情你看日本現在很多鄉下連房子都沒有人要住啊但那當然不是一個行政區的話單一的問題所以我在這邊部長我覺得啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
3072.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
3086.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
應該來討論這一個行政區劃法但我們這幾年繼續研究繼續去處理的問題其實也應該給內政委員會一些資料大家用這些資料再來討論再來詳細的討論來處理這個問題我覺得這個問題我們要解決但我覺得應該要花點時間來解決不然 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
3096.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
3106.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
我們所有的立法委員也會變成罪人為什麼變成罪人我再說一次拒舉平成大合併大家來看就知道了這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
3108.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
3137.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
造成日本現在很多問題待解決所以部長可不可以說你把這些資料給大家然後大家好好來討論然後甚至把你們這些要研究的你們之前的草案有哪些要修改我覺得都可以給大家來參考一下是 我們會遵照委員的指示來辦理把日本平成合併的部分還有目前我們在行政區劃的推動上面碰到什麼困擾因為原先會覺得說地方制度的就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
3138.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3155.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
希望能夠這個尊重這個地方制度然後用行政區劃的程序法但是目前看起來很多委員所問的就是行政區劃的實質的部分是指什麼那牽涉到了就很多所以剛剛有委員也提到說是不是可以開公聽會的方式我們也會樂觀其成我覺得部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3159.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3180.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
這個真的可能有需要因為你剛講的程序法跟作用法跟實質法其實我覺得是完全不一樣的概念那概念完全不一樣你要實行下去我跟你講也是完全不一樣我們要很審慎可能要讓所有的委員知道程序法作用法還有實質法這些的不同點在哪裡我們去立法才不會有差錯好不好好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3186.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3190.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
好感謝張宏祿召委感謝劉思峰部長下一位我們有請劉許廷召委好謝謝主席劉思峰部長有請 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3205.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3233.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
好 謝謝這根據我們憲法108條一項二款規定行政區劃的事項應該由中央立法並執行之或交由省縣執行之然而現行行政區域的新設廢址或調整除村里林的邊阻跟調整或者是縣市合併升格直轄市等事項在地方制度法已有規定之外其他的各種行政區劃的調整基本上是沒有法源依據的那麼歷經時代更迭社會變遷人口流動產業結構 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3235.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3259.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
轉變、區域發展等綜合因素形成的空間變遷其實有很多在台灣的各個角落有很多的行政區域其實急待調整去符合生活圈跟產業發展的趨勢去提升地方治理的品質跟效能所以我想推動行政區劃法它是有迫切的需求而且必須要依法治化希望在接下來的討論之中可以有更多委員來繼續支持行政區劃法的討論這個是我就要問一下部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3264.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3270.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
這剛剛委員這個張宏祿召委講的很多都是很合理的就希望他有審慎的討論但這個劉部長你知不知道這個行政區他的討論從什麼時候就開始了 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3275.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3301.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
從民國八十一年到現在三十幾年啦有改變過但是改變的不多啦改變的不多嘛對不對碰到的困擾還不少碰到的困擾不少嘛對不對所以歷經了李登輝總統陳水扁總統馬英九總統蔡英文總統等等好幾任分別都有不同的版本但每一次到了最後都基本上就是不是卡在行政院沒有共識就是送進立法院之後因為屆期不連續而不了了 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3302.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3310.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
我們有六次的部分有六次的部分我想部長也很清楚那我覺得這件事情也不是哪一個個別的委員基於選區的例據提出來的而是 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3314.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3332.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
而是我們現在總統當初的台南市長賴清德的心聲當初他在做台南市長的時候當然就談過財化法的問題他在做蔡英文總統手下的行政院長的時候他有講這個財政收支劃分法地方制度法行政區劃法是均衡台灣發展重要的三法 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3332.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3357.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
要來做處理嘛所以也是在我們賴清德總統當初擔任行政院長的時候其實就有提出院版的行政區劃法的草案嘛那時候叫行政區劃程序法嘛那有這樣的一個草案也進到了這個內政委員會的一讀會但是後來就沒有然後了嘛那當然就因為隨著行政院長的換人隨著屆期的不連續然後這個案子又再次的胎死腹中這本席是覺得非常非常可惜啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3358.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3370.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
那我想行政區號就如同我剛剛講的就現在啊你除了縣市合併而且不只是合併喔你還能夠升格你可以利用地方制度法之外其他有很多的調整它其實是沒有辦法來做處理的下一張再下一張這看過了 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3374.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3398.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
我就舉我自己選區的例子啊這我龜山的這個回籠地區啊這當初本席那時候在賴清德總統提出院辦草案的時候本席在競選這個第一次競選桃園市議員啊我在我回籠地區我就講這地方很有趣啊它轄區是我桃園的龜山但是跟新北新莊跟我們新北樹林交界我們回籠地區啊這個電化區嘛我們桃園是03開頭但回籠是02啊然後他們繳電費要到新莊繳水費要到樹林啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3403.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3407.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
這就是這邊的生活 基本上他的生活圈其實跟新北市的距離是比較近的 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3408.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3437.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
所以也因為這樣他常常被桃園 自然而然他就是邊界的治理嘛他可能就變成末梢的地方那麼相對來講他得到的重視跟資源不管是藍綠執政都一樣他常常就是那個被遺忘的山不管地帶所以那時候我看到了中央當初有提行政區劃法的草案我覺得非常的高興啊所以我就在我們回鴻地區跟我們鄉親來講現在中央有打算要面對生活區調整的問題我們應該做好準備大家未來這個你可以把你的心聲大聲的講出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3438.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3453.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
後來回籠鄉親也很期待啊也因為這樣給了我很多的支持可是很遺憾的是我當選的議員之後後來發現這個法案並沒有通過那這個鄉親的溯源他一直想要把心情講出來這樣子的一個問題就遇到了重大的困難啊這就是行政區沒有辦法有效的遊戲規則來做討論的一個問題啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3457.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3470.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
部長 像這樣子的問題你以你們現在行政院的統計你們過去其實也寫過草案像這樣子邊界三不管地帶然後可能有必要要透過行政區畫調整的方式全台灣一共有幾處 你們有沒有做過統計可以 沒問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3475.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3496.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
事實上這個有關區界的一個劃分的部分如果有一些不明的現行大概就可以這個來做處理那是那個只是間界的問題土地間界一樣不一樣我想是生活圈的調整歷來有關行政催化法的討論大概沒有通過原因就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3498.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3519.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
各界對於行政規劃大概都有各種不同的一個想像事實上這個各種的討論實際的討論放到法裡面來做處理可能就很難來做執行所以內政部109年送到行政院的版本是行政規劃程序法就提供一個行政規劃的遊戲規則 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3523.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3544.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
我要跟部長再補充啊 其實也不只是跨縣市的這樣子的一個區域的一個重整我桃園市裡面啊 兩個區之間 有那種地界很奇怪的 一樣生活圈不一樣的我哪怕是我桃園市裡面 區跟區之間 里跟里之間的調整他也都沒有辦法去處理 這個就是現在的問題 原因是什麼 我沒有法源依據嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3545.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3559.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
譬如說我龜山的山德里其實有一塊它其實離桃園的萬壽里比較近然後那個中間其實是有建築做區隔的但是一個畫區的時候畫畫在山德里面變得跟飛地一樣然後我曾經有跟桃園市議會質詢結果桃園市長說因為我們沒有一套 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3560.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3579.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
即便是我桃園市內部各區之間要做行政區的調整也沒有法源依據所以我講這些東西也許從全國宏觀的角度來看它可能只是一個很小的事情可是這對於在地的居民來講它是一件大事情所以我覺得剛剛我們市長有回答現在不管是成立院版的行政區劃法的行政區劃程序法 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3581.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3605.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
或者是本席這次提出的行政區劃吧它其實概念是一樣的也就是需要一個全國可以適用的遊戲規則我很同意剛剛張宏祿召委講的你在做行政區劃的時候它會造成城鄉發展不均的問題啊它會造成地方的一些衝突所以每一個案子它都要經過充分討論這一點本席百分之百贊同但現在的問題不是沒有討論啊現在問題是連開始都不能開始因為你沒有任何的法源依據我現在請問部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3607.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3623.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
這個我看了你們的那個書面報告你們有寫113年啊這個最新你們委託出去的研究成果已經回到了行政院那以你們現在看完這些研究成果之後請問你們現在院版因為之前部長有講過嘛行政區法一定會有院版嘛對不對還是說現在不會有院版了 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3625.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3652.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
部長未來要有院版的話我們希望會有一個公聽的程序啦就是剛剛我有回答委員的問題啦第一個就是說我們現在到底要送的是行政區劃法還是行政區劃的程序法那這兩個是完全不同的概念行政區劃的程序法的話就是我們就是像委員所說的很簡單的一句話就是我們把遊戲規則弄出來讓中央跟地方政府有所遵循那但是呢這個部分呢就是要公聽以後 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3653.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3679.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
包括縣市政府願意同意這樣的方式我們才推出來所以推出來這個部分呢本來就是我們必須要處理的上個會期跟上上個會期其實本期都有在不管是夜報或者是專報的時候都有去提到這個概念那當初大家的回答都一樣就是一定會有願版但是你們要有點時間去整理我說OK你有時間去研究然後讓它推出來完整我是OK的但我想知道你現在經過了研究調查這些程序之後送進來的東西跟你當初啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3680.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3707.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
賴清德總統做行政院院長的時候當初推出來的草案版本現在會不會有差別基本上行政院針對跟地方制度法的借鞋的問題還有公投然後它是不是屬於行政處分它這個有關決定機關決定之後的效果等等大概法律上的這些問題還必須做深入的一個討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3709.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3722.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
還要討論那你們到底還要討論多久我今天就會幫我這些因為行政區化沒有辦法調整而受苦的民眾在發聲啊那你們到底要討論多久內政部已經把相關的意見在去年送到行政院那這個部分行政院應該會去審來做處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3724.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3747.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
去程 我要問時間啊部長有沒有時間表你們要不要稍微加大一下力度說這是很多委員關心的事情目前還沒有那我要講的部分就是說可能要請委員把它區分開來如果您剛所提的都是實質上的問題譬如說生活圈或者是居民的方便性那再來再次牽涉到說是屬於比較僵硬的制度就是說新北市政府跟桃園市政府之間 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3748.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3775.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
那是實際溝通的問題嘛就是程序上所以我們希望把程序定出來以後呢朝這方面但是呢我們把行政區劃的程序法送上去的時候似乎有一些不管是委員也好還有學者專家覺得說這樣不行我們要把這個實質的部分要放進去所以就有人提到說那財政收支劃分法是不是要一起納進來那這樣子就越複雜所以到目前為止呢行政區劃法沒有辦法單獨解決剛剛牛委員所提到的包括桃園的龜山我現在講我現在剛剛跟你講你說 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3777.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3800.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
我們其實要的只是一個遊戲規則因為你每一個個案到最後的深水區一定是地方的討論嘛對不對 你一定是地方討論包括縣市政府的討論公民的差異等等因為中央也有這種這個稅賦上面的部分要處理啊沒錯 但你要有遊戲規則嘛就是地方稅你要納到什麼地方啊然後切割出去以後這個稅是留在原地還是要跟著一起我們現在 我現在看到的版本其實跟當初的院版大同小異其實概念上也是遊戲規則 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3801.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3827.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
我建議是有遊戲規則就先把它訂出來就好你實際上遇到狀況討論的時候因為到了最後決定的一定是地方地方政府的討論結果嘛跟中央的專家決定我理解我理解但是所以因為這樣子所以你打算遊戲規則都不做嗎我跟委員報告一下譬如說在那個委員所關心的包括像龜山或者迴龍的問題但是我們所碰到也有人告訴我們說我們可不可以北北激逃變成是一個大的城市那請問這個是中央的議題還是地方的議題 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3829.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3852.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
或者是說矽脂要不要跟基隆合併之類的那這些議題呢我們就造成很多照顧管制帶因為你連討論的平台跟遊戲規則跟法源依據都沒有嘛所以都變成空談嘛我們現在至少要有一個法源依據它有機會可以執行你才能去思考說我到底要不要做這件事情對不對但是你不能因為說因為這個很複雜所以我連基本規則跟開始都沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3852.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3854.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
我剛剛有回答過委員的問題就是說我們是不是可以跟地方政府再來把這相關的議題把它釐清清楚並不是表示說很複雜就不解決很複雜還是需要解決那這裡面所牽涉到的部分就是我剛剛所說的 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3868.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3887.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
我們本來在那個109之後呢想要把行政區劃法變成行政區劃的程序法讓它簡單一點我只提遊戲規則那當然委員你自己的版本又加了公民投票那另外一回事但是這個行政區劃的程序法在內部包括有一些這個學者跟專家他們就不同意他說你這樣沒有辦法解決這個問題所以我們變得又比較審慎要來重新評估也就是我們所說的在我們共識 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3893.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
3908.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
共識不是法條共識都還沒有形成之前啊單獨送出去一個行政區劃法或行政區劃的程序法不夠完全好譬如說我們如果把這個行政區劃法送出去以後我看財政部一定馬上問說那請問一下這個地方稅怎麼樣做區分那其他的縣市議會有些議會覺得說我這邊割一塊出去了我的議員的這個名額又不見了 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
3918.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
3941.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
所以又跟地方制度有關我本來是希望說如果程序法比較完全的狀況之下盡量去因為我們現在是台灣是一個民意非常發達的部分盡量以地方制度的縣市議會或者是民意代表的抉擇為主但是呢這個又牽涉到說我不要減少我的利益我希望增加我的部分最後的結論一定是最後只有遊戲規則比較容易走啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
3945.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
3967.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
就是回到當初的曾經提出過的願板但是我們希望有共識才來推啦因為時間不夠了所以你現在打算要多少時間之內你可以把剛剛張宏祿趙薇講的很好你至少要把你們現在研究成果跟困境你把資料提供給委員參考嘛這第一個第二個你們自己內政部會不會召開各縣市的這個協調會議啊或者是一個公聽會包含學者專家來你們會主動來辦嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
3970.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
3996.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
我們在112年的時候就已經有辦過已經辦過了嘛可是我們希望說如果在立法院裡面有這樣的公聽程序的話可以再邀請地方縣市政府還有地方縣市議會可以來表達他們的意見這樣子我們再收攏這些意見的話可能會更好所以你們112年已經做過座談嘛對不對113年研究案的資料已經回來那就一個禮拜之內提供相關的資料給委員會做參考這是OK的吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
3997.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
4013.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
這個沒有問題對不對我們的委託研究嘛對 委託研究嘛 跟你一些困境你內政部要再補充一些書面報告什麼我覺得都OK你補充一些資料我們來安排公聽會 我認為都很好好 大家縣市政府再次來討論但是希望啊這是賴清德總統當做行政院長很重要的政見 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
4014.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
4035.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
不要這種跟民生生活有關的法案這種東西又被耽誤掉這本席是不接受的好不好我可以再等你一段時間等你的願板我都覺得是OK的但不能一等再等等到最後又變成屆期不連續那這樣對我的鄉親來講那就是很大的一個衝擊啊所以部長一個禮拜之內提供相關的資料我們來做後續的討論包含公聽會等等然後願板的時間表我們把它研擬出來這樣可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
4040.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
4055.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
提供我們現在的資訊給委會各委員參考可以嗎我們看資料之後開公聽會到時候要請部長要配合應該沒有問題吧你們一定會配合嘛對不對也要跟縣市政府先講可能會有這樣一個事情可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
4056.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
4082.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
那開完之後會不會院版會不會比較快一點公聽會的程序如果是委員會開的話是由委員會發函我們可以排啊我在這邊公開的承諾你我可以排啊我們可以用這個這個委員會的時間我們來安排就像之前討論其他修法公聽會一樣這當然可以開好不好但我們希望開了之前大家的資料要充分對不對而且開要有意義啊你不能開完之後然後又不了了之了嘛對不對我是希望今天可以問出院版的時間表啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
4083.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
4111.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
報告委員其實不是說開完之後不了了而是開完之後意見會非常的紛亂跟反雜然後沒有辦法用一個行政區劃或是行政區劃程序法來解決我一直在提醒的是這一點所以賴清德總統當初做院長的時候就因為是這樣所以就不了了之了嗎借其不蓄審也是一個原因啦到底是借其不蓄審還是當初沒有公示啊因為他好像是第...對不起不知道哪一年都提出來的對啊107年提出來嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
4112.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
4117.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
然後1109年之後就藉其不續省那到底是藉其不續省還是還是做不到 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
4118.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4142.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
你就把話講清楚吧我無法回答你無法回答我現在沒這個資格那你覺得現在他當總統他還會不會想做這個事嗎我想只要能夠讓我們的行政區畫跟所有的生活圈的實質的部分呢充分配合然後讓所有的居民了解一下說行政區畫是在幫助他們做更好的生活的部分的建設尤其是公共建設的話大家都會樂觀其成啦對嘛你這個態度比較好報告委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4144.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4170.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
但是沒有共識齁倉促推出反而會是副作用很大我完全了解啊我們在這個地方質詢其實聽了就是個真相到底是不是沒有共識還是因為藉其不去去審因為沒有共識是不是造成他現在做總統之後不推這個事了就把他公開清楚講明白我覺得這樣子也沒有關係但是看起來我們需要多一點討論好那我們就趕快收集資料我們趕快來辦公廳會但我希望回到這法案的初衷可以解決人民生活的問題可以嗎好謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4173.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4177.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
好 謝謝劉許晴 趙偉 謝謝劉部長我們下一位有請王美惠委員這是我們這裡的部長劉部長 部長在這裡喔在上面擺在上面擺 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4200.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4206.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
我們知道非常多人去一個不應該自治的地方因為有地方受到影響但是我覺得補償做得很好 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4216.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4224.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
你剛才說全部都要寒鬆的,不然在那裡用武力,在那裡玩多久我覺得對你會越大,跟黑白說的越來越多因為我覺得一個地方,你要集會遊行或要做什麼,應該都要去申請 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4240.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4252.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
國家有國家的法規啦 我覺得最近這半天來 我覺得大家想不想去看就不去看像地檢署看了一遍 還說來 哪怕你們大小所以普天 我覺得你的做法 我覺得非常好 能夠給你 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4265.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4269.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
會更加多,所以在中禮拜拜時的時候,你的做法,我認為是利用全部寒鬆的,但是我的感覺是,你對中禮拜時這樣做,但是在這半年來,也有這樣的綜合,你是怎樣? |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4286.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4291.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
沒有看出這個全部來寒鬆來 補充妳的回答謝謝委員的指導我相信站在內政部的立場就是支持我們的經濟事務他們針對這個一規有限法裡面會相關規定來辦理所以我今天也有針對這個部分就是說我們的經濟事務的經濟動力尤其在處理這種聚眾 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4311.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4311.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
因為我站在一個這個就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4330.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4335.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
督導那個警政的立場上面的我就不針對個案來繼續發言因為他現在已經進入偵查的程序所以我覺得這樣子會比較好那過去好幾年當中呢我們在有關集會遊行的部分都有特別討論到禁制區 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4346.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4366.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
這個禁制區除了說譬如說是我們的這個中央政府所在地的要塞之外那還有軍事要塞那同時呢我們希望增加的像包括像這個法院或者是這個醫院因為醫院有很多這種聚眾滋擾的事件我們認為不適合因為醫院是一個看病的地方不是來吵架的地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4367.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4396.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
那希望在禁制區裡面大家都能夠遵守那這個有遵守的話大家有這個遵守的規範的話呢那警方是站在雙方能夠平和來處理有關任何的爭議事件呢這是我們的初衷而不是為了要傳喚某人或是為了要做這個政治性上面的一個宣示我想這個都不是集會遊行法希望大家能夠本於原來的初衷把自己要表達的立場講得非常清楚之後但是就是要遵守集會遊行的規則 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4397.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4399.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
因為保證,在這裏我覺得很好笑啦,一個收到沒去收這個款,又揮揮三尺,沒這樣,給北省看出他的做法,我覺得他的年紀實在是很差勁的 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4419.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4423.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
所以在國家有國家的法律所以一定要有法律的人要讓他知道有法律的問題所以在這個規定當中我也覺得補充這個處理方法我認為可以更多 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4438.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4443.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
會比較好 不會對你說話會越來越嚴重 我覺得一個社會一直對你如果不講道理 互不分 互不分的時候這個國家會害來 普通 剛才你說到我們的行政化分化 你們一定 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4459.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4463.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
立法會的經驗又恢復以來有八十一年到現在尤其我們的大中共也希望可以有這個做法但是裡面的做法有人提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4475.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4479.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
裡面有稍微不講 稍微不講的時候 也要問補充 以我自己來講我自己 我也願望 我的資源那些 我的零銷售那些我的生活圈來自己去那些 若是說 只有一塊而已 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4496.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4499.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
追尋是不是可以未來加二次民用是不是可以未來加二次我也愿意這樣因為加二次在幾十年前加新疆買賣新機要不然我們中央的政府跟我們說你新機要不然在這裡你看不是加花輪功新機就好了 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4523.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4525.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
是長久以來 要怎麼阻止他 你看他年紀和身體又有差喔再來這個過程中 你的行政會看文化 也會牽涉到 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4544.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4551.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
財政手法,這是都一樣在這裡的做法本席是要跟你說,這是非常大件事,不是說啊,現在改改就好了每一項都要去了解去做,尤其是你認為本席說這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4568.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4581.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
如果問政府的時候,他不要說道啦,跟我嘉義市要那些零控訴,可以主管那些,跟財政可以再分那些的時候,是不是可以來補充,你回答一下感謝委員的關心,委員本來就是嘉義市非常認真發表的民意代表我也要跟委員報告,行政區劃法,我們是希望可以可長可久啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4596.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4600.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
不是因為今天這個地方有一個栗多我大家就擠擠在那裡有栗差的話大家都趕快遠離所以為什麼會碰到這個困難就是說大家都想要好的要肥肉的部分骨頭的部分或者是肌肉的部分就丟給別人 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4615.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4633.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
但是呢 又希望好的部分留下來 譬如說我剛剛有提到我們不管是地方制度 或者是行政區的話在處理縣市合併的時候 大家都希望好的合併那上一次有人在提到 譬如說這個某一個縣市就是有很多科學園區的地方 要不要合併這最重要 現在科學園區的地方 大家都要走出去 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4637.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4658.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
對 但是這個部分跟行政區的規劃比較沒有相關可是科學園區是會改變的所以我們很希望說它是大家一起來討論就是說這個公平的一個遊戲規則怎麼樣制定出來那可以看得出來在都會區的民意代表跟在非都會區的民意代表的想像是不一樣的 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4659.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4663.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
阿或者是說我剛剛所提的你剛才有說到的財政收支的微分的部分大家都希望說不好的先維持下去但是錢就要流下來阿這個部分財政收支劃分法如果針對我們行政區劃的處理的話它一定會有不同的想像 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4676.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4704.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
當然尊重以財政部為主的部分那再來地方制度就是剛剛所提的一般來講如果縣市要合併是地方縣市政府跟地方縣市議會兩個通過他們內部的一個程序如果同意以後可以報中央或是中央可以直接指定但是中央到目前為止通常沒有會直接指定因為這樣子不好沒有這個尊重民意但是地方要上來的時候呢這個四個地方縣市政府跟縣市議會意見就不一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4706.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4720.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
如果四個地方的縣市的意見不一樣因為通常大的一定會零價小的多的一定會零價少的少的不同意多的一定同意然後小的不同意大的一定同意之類的 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4721.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4741.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
那這個我們就很難做決定所以通常都會卡住那這個跟這個不管是人的關係或者是生活圈的概念或者是財政的概念呢其實它是一個比較複雜的機制啦但是到目前為止呢雖然很多不管是在朝或在野的很多立委都提出來這樣子的一個爭議但是這個爭議呢對行政機關來講要把它收攏或者是一個有凝聚這個共識確實不容易 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4749.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4761.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
就好像說前兩年我們提出說行政區劃法乾脆就改成行政區劃程序法其實還沒有送到行政院就有人反對了所以我們也會碰到這方面的困擾柏庭在這裡本學要跟你說很乾脆的事情我們也要去做在這個你剛才說的跟本學所想的都一樣我們勿忙 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4771.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4773.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
發明的時候,電池是更加發電,更加好,資源更加多不是發明的時候,變成越增加越少,越沒有資源所以我們在這個發明的時候,也非常重要我們希望中央把電池用心用好,是要讓電池沒發電的,可以越發電,交通越方便 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4800.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4806.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
不要為了威嚇說如果沒有人愛,不愛就像議員在這裡,跟吃肉的都被撞上去這樣也不好,所以我希望部長可以說本席自己探討的問題未來我們要怎麼做的時候,一定要納入可以讓合平均的,不可以差太多,以上好,謝謝文委會委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4830.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4831.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
下一位我們請李博毅委員質詢謝謝部長 今天只能問你延續剛剛王美惠委員的話題我想跟部長請教很簡單的問題台灣現在是民主 我覺得不只民主最重要的是法治的社會 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4856.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4882.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
這一個法治的社會如果有遇到過去我當然小時候曾經看過啦有幫派去包圍警察局的時候警察怎麼處理部長我不曉得委員小時候是指民國紀典的事情應該就是我小學的時候吧三十年前啊如果是現在的話大概不會有這樣的狀況馬上馬上就是因為他不能到那個警察機關前面去這樣幫派包圍警察局 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4883.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
4910.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
就是質疑警察的執法能力質疑公權力現在有另外一件事情啦政黨率人去包圍地檢署這是要做什麼他影響台灣的法治影響檢察官判決或者是影響檢察官做相關調查的新政還要施壓恐嚇檢察官那所以呢當天 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
4912.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
4930.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
中國國民黨號召包圍台北地檢署警政署舉牌七次裡面包含蔣萬安市長在7點24分的時候在北檢外面受訪7點29分進入禁制區內7點40分發言7點54分離開中間警政署很有技巧在蔣萬安進到 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
4941.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
4952.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
禁制區以後沒有舉牌過等到蔣萬安出了這個禁制區之後才第二次舉牌部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
4953.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
4978.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
首都市長進入台北地檢署禁制區內企圖影響司法當然內政部有內政部處理的方式我在這邊要講的是全台灣都在看台灣的法治倒退而且由台北市長帶頭啦在蔣萬安身上永遠留下一筆破壞台灣不是民主喔是法治的觀念 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
4980.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
4985.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
跟30年前幫派去圍警察局有什麼不一樣不是你有沒有辦法做一個回應 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
4990.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
5012.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
第一個我們的集會遊行法希望能夠去政治化任何人如果你要挑戰集會遊行法裡面尤其是法律所訂定的部分的話站在主管機關的立場我有要求就是要嚴正執行那所以呢我也覺得我們的警員非常的警察非常的辛苦尤其是這一次呢以台北市警局當然我們還有若干的這個保安警察 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
5013.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
5037.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
在兩天的時間內幾乎24小時在旁邊待命所以我剛有講過台北市警這個是警政署執法的當然辛苦還有技巧但是我們要跟國人說明的還是很重點的一個為什麼北檢外面不是可以拘禁的地方為什麼是禁制區因為這些人想要影響檢察官的調查 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
5040.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
5065.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
就跟法院要判決前你到司法院去辦什麼活動都是一樣的都是企圖要影響這直接影響了台灣最有價值的民主第二個法治我們這是一個法治國家是謝謝 謝謝部長接下來我想針對今天的這個內容剛才主席也有講到包含這個賴清德總統擔任院長的時候其實提出來的 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
5067.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
5083.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
行政區劃法其實要完整的講賴院長那時候的想法應該是把公債法行政區劃法還有財政收支劃分法一起來談因為這個行政區劃法其實剛剛部長也講到很重要的一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
5083.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
5111.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
希望如果有行政區劃法之後這個行政區劃會是完整的而不是今天某個鄉鎮他希望他可以劃入另外一個直轄市那所以由鄉鎮來公投我覺得這個問題會是更麻煩更複雜那尤其我覺得以北北、基桃會比較多這些相關的事務包含很多新北市的離台北市就一線之隔 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
5112.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
5133.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
那他們也要主張如果有台北市的門牌的話這個房價暴增一坪馬上暴增所以這個議題其實需要內政部還有行政院一樣要做出比較完整的一些討論尤其是跟地方的討論千萬千萬我們一定不能像財化法一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
5134.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
5159.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
一劃下去整個行政區劃都亂掉我覺得這個是我們內政委員會接下來必須要很嚴肅很嚴正的來討論這些問題包含它是程序法或者是接下來的相關的公聽會以及跟地方政府的相關的這些討論希望內政部都可以跟地方政府來做一些比較完整的討論那我也看到 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
5161.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
5176.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
從2018年這個行政院提出這個院版之後呢到2023年內政部也有對是不是納入公投有做一些相關的研究的報告我想這些都是我們必須要很嚴肅的來討論跟參考的來請這個市長來做一個回應2023年後來這個公投的演繹 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
5186.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
5202.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
用委託研究基本上對於公投參考各國的經驗並不是必要的程序有些國家反而公投會牽涉到多大的區域要公投公投反而會變成行政區塊的阻礙也有這種情況 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
5206.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
5217.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
所以都是要很嚴肅的來討論當然今天召委的意思是說你要讓這個區的人充分發聲他沒有要保證說就要讓你劃進去新北市啦謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
5227.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5235.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
我們要的就是一個遊戲規則啦內容上都可以在法條的時候討論但我們希望有具體的進度好不好好 謝謝李柏毅委員的資訊下一位我們請黃婕委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5243.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5259.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
好謝謝主席我們先請部長劉國民黨有請部長想先跟您請教上禮拜國民黨的黨主席朱立倫率領國民黨的立委跟議員到了集會遊行的靜置區去抗議 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5260.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5281.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
那我不知道說當然部長非常有魄力第一時間就是有用這個急擁法說如果都有進到禁制區包括朱立倫主席謝龍介以及他們的發言人楊志宇等等要直接移送法辦那我想問喔因為其實在場還有其他的人包括徐巧欣等等他們把這個鐵馬護欄都推倒了 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5284.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5307.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
那請問這樣有違反什麼樣的法律嗎報告委員這樣的部分的話我們請這個警政同仁在現場因為他們有收證我們根據收證的事實的話就按照相關的規定來辦理那當然您剛所提到的部分就是說因為他們在到這個北檢前面去做抗議的時候本來就是由國民黨的黨主席發動的 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5308.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5332.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
那再來就是他的發言人也在現場所以我們台北市警局在回應台北市議會的很多質詢的時候特別提到這三位可能把他列為是守謀或者是他的發起活動的代言人是好謝謝部長說明那當然如果有違反這個社會法或是其他違反自由法的人士我也都希望這個警政署可以依法來辦理 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5333.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5337.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
那我也要在這邊要聲援當天包括四茶貓到現場可是其實警察在現場並沒有去協助維持民眾的人身安全那甚至他被暴力對待被用瓶子這樣子丟然後甚至是被打都沒有警察出手相助那這個畫面也看得非常多民眾覺得很心疼就是你一個集會 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5357.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5370.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
最重要的 警察在現場最重要的工作就是維持所有民眾的人身安全不要讓這樣的衝突加劇可是我看到的是警察在現場放任這樣的行為不斷的發生甚至讓民眾的情緒越來越高漲最後這個暴民衝上去然後攻擊一個無辜的民眾那我不希望接下來還有這樣的事情發生 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5381.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5392.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
所以我要在這邊拜託部長拜託警政署接下來一定要務必讓所有的民眾都是安全的好嗎是 報告委員這件事情包括您在內有多位委員來質詢所以我們有從旁來協助這位網紅他如果有需要提告的話那我們按照相關規定來辦理 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5401.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5419.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
好謝謝部長說明那再來進到今天這個行政區劃法這行政區劃法我大致看了一下其實覺得牽涉的層面真的非常廣非常非常的複雜包括剛剛其實博弈委員提到你光是一個行政區你前面他的行政區改了一個名字就例如說啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5421.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5442.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
萬華區改中正區中正區改萬華區就好了哇這個地價房價可能就差很多然後再來如果你改了一個住址下去可能你的身份證要改你的交通的節點所有的資訊全部都要改所有的資料這裡的路名什麼的全部都要改那這個可能都是 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5443.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5460.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
這是幾大的事情一改下去大家都要重新的調整那這個也需要非常大的一筆經費那再來就是如果到時候選區重新劃分然後土地面積人口都有重新切割的話那可能在座的民代可能席次也會受影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5461.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5488.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
立委啦 議員啦然後包括當地的村里長等等是不是之後的席次也都要重新調整這個也必須要來考慮那再來我覺得最重要的還是如果接下來包括其實剛剛我們主席有提到的這個回籠到底要不要併台北的問題這個其實應該也要跟我們地方縣市政府討論過吧那剛剛我不知道部長是說前年的時候是已經都有跟各縣市政府討論過一輪了是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5491.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5515.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
好基本上是討論制度上的問題而不是個案的討論OK所以就是還沒有進到說要意願要或不要而是說這個授權到底要不要給出去是這樣子嗎是基本上的討論還是在制度上的討論對那對那我好奇的是說那大家有沒有共識覺得說要不要先把這個程序法的授權先給出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5517.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5532.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
到底誰來決定然後要不要開始進行這個討論了大家各縣市現在的共識如何我還蠻好奇的就是大家如果有共識那我們來討論我覺得都很正面看待可是我不知道現在各縣市的態度到底如何 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5532.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5546.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
因為像我自己在高雄市我也還不知道說我們高雄市其實包括我們市長或是其他的其他的立委的意見議員的意見然後里長大家的意見如何這個是不是還需要再收攏還是說你們其實有共識 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5548.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5572.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
在一般各種不同區域的調整的這個部分包含這個不同跨縣市之間的或直轄市的改制當然有很多不同的意見那事實上在地方制度法裡面是有規定說直轄市改制之後的區域必須做一些調整剛剛也有一些委員有提到但是因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5573.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5587.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
這個整個的調整的一個範圍包含小到區大到可能跨這個縣市之下等等有涉及到不同的一個法律的層面所以討論商要收攏的確要花一些時間來做討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5589.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5619.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
好謝謝對啊因為聽起來真的是牽涉層面太廣了所以我剛剛光是我提的這幾個問題接下來如果要討論可能一項一項都要來細緻的討論那當然我覺得在此之前可以先做的是資源的分配啦因為這個行政區劃法很多縣市的目的也都是希望說接下來的生活圈可以讓同一個生活圈可以一致然後使用同樣的資源大家的資源分配下去是平均的但是我認為在此之前其實才劃法就可以做啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5619.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5626.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
那只是因為現在新的財劃法上路之後我不知道說財劃法上路之後會不會跟這個行政區劃法接下來有漢格或是衝突的地方好 請財政部說明一下因為我乍看之下光是說因為原本有一個直轄市的分配額嘛那如果直轄市的分配額就例如說現在我一個非直轄市的一個區撥出去了 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5645.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5664.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
那會不會反而因為財劃法的關係讓新的行政區劃法被撥出去之後反而享受不到原本的資源我擔心的是這個是跟我們報告那行政區劃法的這個如果他的這個計劃施行之後那在這個財政收支劃分的部分必須要配合來做檢討 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5667.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5692.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
對所以因為我們才剛修完才化法那當然我沒有很認同原本的現在的版本只是說如果到時候我們要來處理行政區劃法才化法還要再重修對不對必須要重新再檢討調整是的所以其實我看下去有非常多部法律必須要同時重新討論包括地方制度法跟我們行政區劃法到底有沒有衝突的地方然後包括才化法 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5692.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5712.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
是不是也要搭配著調整那這是一個非常大非常多部法律必須要同時來檢討的一件事情所以我希望如果接下來要討論可以那是不是也可以委請交委再多辦幾場公聽會然後我們再把地方縣市都邀來大家再把一件事情一件事情細細的討論之後那尋求一個共識再上路 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5717.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5726.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
好那這個就是相信大家應該都都希望可以朝這個方向啦那希望這個部長接下來也持續的收攏地方的意見好謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5730.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5754.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
謝謝黃婕委員的質詢我跟委員會報告排公聽會當然沒有問題但是因為現在大家在討論看起來目前為止的狀況就是說不可能去涉及在一部法律裡面涉及實質的東西先要有遊戲規則像我們跟地方縣市政府如果有討論現在狀況一定是我連遊戲規則都沒有要怎麼討論所以你實質的東西並不會有任何的進展我們希望透過法案的審查、詢答、公聽會等等就盡速的把這個遊戲規則催生出來以利討論以上跟大家補充說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5758.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5759.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
下一位我們請徐益臻委員質詢謝謝主席 我們請劉世芳 劉部長劉部長有請 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5777.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
5803.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
部長好我想今天我們討論的是行政區劃法的部分其實這個內政部在民國80年就已經開始推動行政區劃法的工作那到了106年當時擔任行政院長的賴清德總統在年終記者會議均衡台灣為題宣誓將啟動研議台灣行政區的重劃那在107年的5月的院會也通過行政區劃法的草案 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
5804.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
5824.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
那我想不管是縣市的合併或是行政區的整併其實都需要有完整的法源依據才能避免爭端那當然我們今天在討論兩個版本之前我們可以先回顧到四年前在2021年的時候時任新竹市長林志堅他拋出竹竹餅那當時新竹縣長楊文科這處長 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
5827.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
5855.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
猪猪喵合并那人口数就可以达到升格为直辖式的门槛但也牵扯出县市合并缺乏法源基础当然当时民进党为了猪猪并有强推地方制度法的修法并以禁服二读的方式闯关当然最后在国民党的强力杯葛之下修法到目前并没有通过那请问部长县市合并应该是要由上而下还是由下而上来整合推动 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
5856.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
5879.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
報告委員現在兩種這個方式都可以但是目前行政院幾乎沒有由上而下這樣推動因為還是要有綜合地方的民意所以由下而上來推動的話我覺得這樣子的方向可能比較符合目前我們的這個公民行政的方向我想不管由上而下由下而上其實最重要就是要有明確的法源 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
5880.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
5890.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
才能避免過去因人涉事的爭議那請問部長內政部現在有沒有規劃出行政區劃法草案或者行政區劃程序法草案的工作 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
5891.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
5917.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
報告委員我們在那個113年的9月的時候呢當時就是前任的這個這個內政部長有提到說是不是我們用行政區劃的程序法的方式來推動那但是呢因為我們在要推動到行政院去參考的過程當中呢很多專家學者會覺得說光就行政區劃的這樣的遊戲規則推動的時候呢你如果沒有去把這個實質法 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
5918.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
5939.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
包括財政的部分所以那支部有規劃提出嗎目前我們是有一個送到這個行政院的一個審查當中是109年送上去叫行政區劃程序法109年送上去那今年是114年了就是5年前送上去對 但是剛剛有跟委員提到就是行政院在111年有審查之後有提出四個這個原則的疑義我剛在這個書面報告還有這個口頭報告都提到了 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
5946.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
5973.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
就是跟地方制度的界階的問題還有公民投票的問題請部長針對不管是行政區劃法還是行政區劃法的這個程序法的草案也希望盡快能夠不能像一拖了五年然後完全都沒有下文是我們會來努力謝謝部長那另外想請教部長就是在2008年11月的時候時任民進黨的主席蔡英文在民進黨執政時會能修正集會遊行法來道歉那 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
5974.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
6000.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
集會遊行法的第六條規定禁制區就是如果集會遊行的話須經政府同意並在第六條規定禁制區針對極有法的爭議大法官釋字第718號也有指出緊急集會無需許可那部長你說要將4月17號到台北地檢署抗議司法不公的所有人都移送法辦請問你移送我了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
6001.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
6025.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
報告委員我剛所說的部分就是說在我們的集會遊行法的規定裡面我們會按照規定來處理如果必要的話就是移送法辦但是移送法辦的過程當中還有包括我們第一線非常辛苦的警政同仁他們在收證的過程當中是否有提出事實的依據所以我們現在就是依照台北市我給你看嘛我在現場 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
6026.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
6046.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
我剛有跟委員報告過就是說我們移送的過程當中我們是尊重警政署的意見過去八年啦我想民進黨執政的時候都認為這個民進黨之前主張極右法是惡法結果現在民進黨執政的時候卻用這個來打壓一級那按照部長的標準您可以看一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
6046.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
6066.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
在2008年我剛有講過了時任立委的賴清德總統擔任民進黨的幹事長提出集會遊行的修法那要將許可制改為報備職而且取消集遊管制區並刪除主管機關的命令集會遊行的一個權利那甚至在2008年的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
6068.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
6090.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
這個雲林地檢署這個有關蘇志芬的社會案當時呢我們的民進黨的立委柯建民也有號召群眾包圍地檢署另外呢在去年的這個2024年12月20號青鳥包圍立法院當時的柯建民總召有在現場蠱惑甚至宗家兵也有移除柵欄揮手衝進青鳥 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
6095.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
6117.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
那請問當時有移送法辦嗎當時部長你有主張要向這些人移送法辦嗎報告委員那個立法院立法院是可以這樣子的嗎立法院是可以衝撞進來的嗎是可以這樣子的方式嗎就我所了解立法院現在不是集會遊行的禁制區 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
6118.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
6121.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
所以部長是鼓勵可以這樣投放進來嗎可以用這樣的方式推倒柵欄嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
6124.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
6150.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
我們都依法行政我們當然鼓勵依法行政但是不能只是半藍不爛綠但是也要有事實的依據我們是依據事實來做任何集會遊行法的規定所以當時沒有嘛那我再請教一下部長您看一下4月19號的民進黨的遊行依照集遊法第四條的規定集會遊行不得主張共產主義或分裂國土那現場有人主張台獨算不算違反集遊法要不要全部移送法辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
6152.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
6179.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
這個我們會尊重這個警政署對於集會遊行法上面的事實依據來做是否移送的根據部長我要提醒你喔有時候不要對民進黨有利的你們就堅持然後對於現在呢你們就是辦男不辦女所以希望集會遊行法如果過時了就應該要修正該修正就要修正所要不要移送的部分的話是我們的警政同仁按照集會遊行法的相關規定那部長你那時候在講說全數要移送是下至到期嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
6180.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
6207.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
沒有,我跟委員報告,我所說的部分我想委員按照依法委員職權行使法跟按照極有法,或是按照社會秩序維護法各種不同的主要機關我在行政系統,不敢去干預司法那尤其是我們在野黨,請你們一定要依法行政,不要辦懶不辦理是,我一定是依法行政,謝謝委員的指教 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
6208.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
6224.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
好 謝謝徐益臻委員的質詢 下一位我們請吳祁銘委員好 主席我們與會同仁請我們內政部部長 劉部長有請 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
6231.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
6253.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
委員好 部長好 今天我們行政區劃分法這個籌劃這個劃分法的意義 我看今天很多委員 大家都針對區域因為我們區域真的有點混亂 所以在107年在我們的行政院也有提出區劃法 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
6255.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
6280.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
但是在過去那幾年因為大家的共識還不過吧那今天我看咱的召委又排這個行政企劃法但是咱的行政企劃法你要實施之前呢應該是地方政府要先去統籌因為有很多區域我看咱的召委他所說的在我們飛龍這個地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6283.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6307.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
這位所在以前在台北縣跟現在新北市大家都認為說山不管地帶山不管地帶但是你這是面臨兩個直轄市桃園跟新北那你還是要地方去統籌好才辦來公聽會甚至到中央來制定那不然你制定了 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6308.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6322.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
縣市不配合那也是沒辦法實施那因為在新北市存在的很多包含你了解在我們本郊契坤契坤你知道嗎我知道剛才委員有報告到有一間酒櫃這邊叫大漢溪 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6328.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6350.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
旁邊這七億一塊是板橋一塊是全部都是樹林所以這整個七億未來要討論有很多七億都要納入去討論包含我們的三峽我們的北大北大一半又是樹林一半又是三峽所以我認為說不是我們在中央來 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6353.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6378.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
來開這個會應該是從地方縣市鄉鎮當然現在是七啦這些來做個統籌統籌的看怎樣來做大家畢竟有兩個直轄市也要取得兩個縣直轄市的共識你才有辦法來推動啊不能像我們財化法你財化法中央制定你 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6379.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6397.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
地方上還是沒辦法成共識那你又會面臨像財化法一樣是不是這樣 博定是 感謝委員對地方上的關心蘇息兄我們現在碰到的一個困擾就是說它有分成中央的層級跟地方的層級 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6398.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6414.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
地方的層級有些是地方縣市自己內部譬如說區跟區要不要整併或者鄉鎮跟鄉鎮要不要整併或者是林里要不要做整併要分開或者調整或者這個部分的話是地方制度的牽涉的面向比較廣 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6415.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6435.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
另外一個就是跨縣市那跨縣市還有跨直轄市或跨非直轄縣市的問題還有一個是整個大區域就好像有人也在提倡說全台灣是不是只要分成四區就好了北北基桃一大區那這個呢都會牽涉到非常多的部分因為不是只有人口面積跟土地還有它的資源 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6436.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6457.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
要不要重新分配那我想民意代表站在民意的這個立場上面一定會爭取最好的方式但是每個人都爭取最好的方式的話那就比較不好的就會被不被爭取那這樣的狀況之下呢我們如果再加入一個公民複決或是公民投票的方式的話會加深他的 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6458.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6487.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
那個城鄉差距或資源分配上不公平的地方所以我們剛有特別提到就是如果要切除掉這些爭議性非常大的只剩下一個程序法就是制定遊戲規則到底夠不夠目前看起來有些學者他們覺得這樣是不夠的也就是說我們把所有全台灣的這樣子從小到村裡大到整個這個直轄縣市要不要合併的部分全部把它放到一個行政區劃的程序法裡面呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6487.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6498.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
恐怕會置私欲焚所以為什麼說六次的推動不管是藉其不敘審或是當時有些滾動式的縣市合併的問題都沒有辦法整併得非常的好 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6499.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6528.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
像譬如說我現在看到新北市是直接升格那桃園呢也是直接升格那台中縣市是合併升格那高雄縣市呢是直接合併升格那台南市是直接合併升格那它的牽涉程序是縣市跟市那好像看起來只要縣市政府跟縣市議會經過他們的程序同意的報到行政院大概都不會有太大的困擾但是現在一直往下到那個區跟里 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6529.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6545.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
栗 栗啦 村的部分的話呢就會有點複雜因為那個中央如果要長臂管轄到那個部分的話確實用一個行政區劃法會有點這個會太複雜因為全台灣七八千個里 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6545.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6546.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
所以我也說 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6575.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6593.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
拜託保證 因為這一定要說地方政府跟地方政府大家都要先去協調好 是然後區會要去規劃好這樣我們才能整個 不然你中央好 答應了你就像財務法在地方上又有非常多的聲音那這樣我們在這裡用 因為這 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6596.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6617.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
企劃法未來的規劃是牽扯好幾十年的事啊可能話下去就不會再改變了你當了部長我們當了民意代表未來都要承受啊好不好還是要謹慎啦要很完整的規劃好不好謝謝委員指教 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6620.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6637.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
好謝謝吳祁銘委員您提供了兩個很好的例子所以各區裡面也都有行政區調整的問題但我還要再次強調沒有遊戲規則就沒辦法討論因為大家現在遇到這個事第一時間就說啊現在沒有法源依據所以就沒討論我是覺得這真的是比較可惜所以遊戲規則遊戲規則我們反覆強調好下一位我們請高金素美委員質詢謝謝主席有請部長還有園民會中副主委劉部長中副主委有請 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6651.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6664.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
也請部長看一下我們中府主委他在105年的時候他有寫過原住民族政策的發展跟影響這當中他有提到原住民族政策的目標是以原住民族的史觀詮釋歷史為事實基礎 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6668.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6694.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
然後規劃原民轉型正義具體權利恢復或補償措施走向族群之間真正的和諧而這書中呢也明確的指出原住民史觀強調的是原民早於國家形成之前就已經存在主權人權自由理應該被承認跟尊重請教一下中副主委是委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6697.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6714.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
民進黨執政已經到10年了到今天而原住民使官跟主權的理念是否是有真正體現我們的行政區劃制度當中是不是有被納入我們有非常多的政策的規劃跟制度的設計更為包括這個在105年總統 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6720.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6740.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
蔡英文代表政府向民族道歉的時候就針對建立史觀這個部分有提出一些看法所以我們在這幾年來針對原住民族史觀的建置我們都不遺餘力也處理了很多一些歷史事件的資料跟目前史觀的建置所以部長請問一下你也支持吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6741.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
6764.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
是 我想剛剛副主委所講的部分也是我們的立場好 謝謝既然大家都同意的話那麼我們就先來回顧一下歷史日據時期的翻地制度把原住民族隔離管理差別對待從制度上就切割了我們的主體性而殖民政權設置了什麼福肯署 資產局 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
6765.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
6780.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
粗暴的濫墾濫伐掠奪山林跟土地的資源我們比較遺憾的是殖民治理的邏輯到現在仍然存在在我們的制度當中原住民族被行政區劃切割了 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
6783.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
6800.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
我相信中副主委你很清楚我也相信部長也很清楚包括我們的泰雅族就被分裂為七個縣市而排灣族呢他跨越了屏東跟台東兩個地區族群的整體性遭完全的破壞 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
6801.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
6819.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
然後治理的資源根本沒有辦法整合因此在今天我非常支持召委的行政區劃法的構想這個構想是將族群特性人文歷史還有環境保護納入行政區劃的核心考量 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
6820.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
6839.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
那我相信大家都支持也都同意行政區劃不應該只是人口跟地理的分配他應該反映的是對歷史正義跟文化的尊重並且要正視原住民的文化脈絡跟集體需求請問一下部長您同意這樣子的看法嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
6841.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
6857.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
呃我想呃我想那個高金委員所提到的部分呢就是對於原住民的關心哈嗯但是在行政區劃上面的確實沒有錯現行的行政區劃法呢在透過分流立法的方式呢並沒有現行哈並沒有把原住民 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
6858.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
6885.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
劃定在裡面原住民的區域但是未來如果有實質的民族自治尤其是原住民族自治的相關法制的話我們願意透過公聽的方式或是學者專家提供的意見看是否有方便可以放到這個裡面但是因為它所涉及到的部分還是要透過包括各縣市地方政府還有就是原住民區域裡面的族群的部分一起來共同討論我想這樣子比較不會產生太多的爭議很好 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
6888.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
6911.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
也就是說由下而上 大家來共同討論 對吧好 所以我主張 既然大家都談到了原住民的自治原住民自治跟屠海法 其實在地法院講了很久一直都沒有付諸行動那既然自治還沒談到 我們現在就從所謂的行政區劃法我們開始把這個構想概念放在裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
6912.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
6936.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
所以我主張以國土計畫中裡面的中央三脈保育軸為基礎然後來整合原鄉55個鄉鎮市區來打造一套符合原住民族發展需求的行政區劃的架構這不僅僅只是資源的再分配的問題而是必須要結合產業發展、生態保育跟財政的調配 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
6937.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
6963.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
來推動符合原住民族發展需求的行政區劃改革我想以這樣子作為一個中心的討論的主軸中副主委你應該同意吧謝謝委員對於原住民族自治的關心的確這20幾年來如何自治如何劃分包括所謂土地也好或者權力也好或權限也好這個都是一直以來大家都在討論的一個議題 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
6964.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
6989.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
那針對委員的看法我是尊重委員這樣的一個想法好 非常謝謝不管是部長也好 園民會也好都同意我的看法也支持我的理念支持我的理念其實也就是支持105年中副主委你所寫的民族政策的發展跟影響 對吧那所以今天在這裡我也非常謝謝趙偉提了今天的這個行政區劃法的構想跟概念那的確我們需要討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
6991.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
6995.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
因為沒有一個法作為依據的時候就沒有辦法討論也沒有辦法定下遊戲規則所以我在這邊有兩個請求第一個我請內政部跟園民會要儘速完成以下兩項的事項 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
7008.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
7024.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
並且希望你們在一週之內要回覆本席辦公室第一個就是針對上會期地制法第八十三之七條直轄市三地區財政挹注相關的問題我要請內政部提出你們的研議結果 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
7026.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
7044.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
第二個要請兩機關共同來研擬最適合原住民族的行政區劃的方案並且以本席剛剛所提到的國土計劃中裡面的中央三脈寶玉軸為基礎然後進行後續整體規劃跟相關法制作業 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
7046.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
7075.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
儘速提出具體方向跟時間因為有提出這個之後呢也方便我們在公聽會也方便我們地方由下而上提出一些構想跟想法以上兩點需求希望你們在一週之內能夠提供給本席辦公室可以嗎跟委員報告這兩個議題都尤其是第二個議題還蠻蠻難大的不曉得一週的時間夠不夠喔好那你認為要多久 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
7075.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
7100.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
因為這個一定不好討論協文部長報告委員是這樣子地制法八十三支七條的部分我的同仁是告訴我說財政部好像有一些他們的這個說明那另外就是有關國土計畫我想高俊維非常清楚國土計畫法在大院審查的過程當中它是需要六年 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
7101.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
7126.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
的時間延到6年以後所以目前為止呢我們的國土計劃呢是以延到6年在區域計劃或者其他相關的計劃的時候再來做調整那現在您所提到的中央山脈保育軸為基礎我是很抱歉我比較才疏學淺我是第一次聽到是不是容我了解一下這個狀況以後呢再來跟我們的國土計劃的相關單位提出一個方向好嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
7126.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
7151.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
中央山脈保育軸的問題其實談了很久了是但是在國土計劃法裡面並沒有列進去對您當時還在做我們同事的時候其實我就一直提出這個中央山脈保育軸的問題但是現行的國土計劃法尤其是那個大院所通過的部分並沒有提到這一塊所以我們並沒有在我們的這個這個行政單位的同仁裡面把它列為是這個現在要提出一週內要提出這個具體的時程所以你認為要多久的時間多久的時間能夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
7154.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
7167.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
我我我必須要問我們的國土署的同仁這樣子好不好給你們一個月的時間好不好至少至少至少要有一些看法那如果有任何意見的話可以到我辦公室我們來做一些討論好嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
7173.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
7195.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
報告高經緯我們同仁說這個你所提到的國土空間發展的這個部分是國發會所提的部分讓我們回去我們自己行政單位做一下內部的這個資訊上的收集整合以後再提供給委員參考好嗎所以一個月可以好那請內政部跟這個園民會一個月之內 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
7197.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
7213.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
對於以上我提的這兩個方案一個月之內能夠提供給我是就是內政部跟原住民委員會還有財政部跟國發會把這些資訊把它收攏過來以後再提供給委員參考好嗎好OK謝謝謝謝高清素美委員的諮詢下一位我們請廖先祥委員諮詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
7231.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
7253.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
好 謝謝部長 劉部長有請很主動 謝謝柳澤部長早安 這個今天討論的是行政區劃那行政區劃過去在北部的討論可能也是因為我是北部的民意代表說到的資訊也是比較多啦那也是因為在北部的行政區劃我們新北市的過去台北縣跟現在新北市的劃分 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
7253.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
7263.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
好像就是過去因為可能就是適應為了台北市的發展然後為了調整台北市的發展那剩下的給新北市所以說台北縣新北市的一個形狀大家看起來會比較奇怪所以說在過去的前部長林右昌在 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
7269.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
7289.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
當然基隆市長的時候也有提出他一些的構想包括基隆跟一些東北角跟北海岸的一些行政區合併為北海市或者是跟汐止結合起來那到這個台北市變成大台北市或者是現在的基隆市長謝國良他也有做過一些去年有做一些討論就是可能北北基桃合併或者是基隆市直接來跟這個新北市來做合併那這兩個方案 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
7296.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
7313.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
那或者是說謝宜農先生不同政黨謝宜農先生也有提出來基隆跟汐止合併跟台北市合併那跟前面兩者的論述其實也有一致的地方那身為內政部的角色面對社會上那麼多的討論你們現在有沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
7315.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
7333.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
自己的一些想法我不是說您支持哪些方案而是您有沒有看到現況的哪一些問題他們可能一定是看到現況的某些問題所以才提出來一些方案來討論那您就於對於北北基這樣子的行政劃分您看到的一些問題那可能未來您認為可能會調整的方向大概是怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7333.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7351.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
是謝謝委員對於選區裡面或者是說對於周遭的一些城鄉發展的部分那我跟委員這個做一個比較大致上的我的想法第一個就是說很多委員會覺得說如果把所有的這些區劃的調整全部放在行政區劃法確實太複雜 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7353.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7369.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
因為它所有的地理條件也好或者人口或是發展的條件都不相同所以想把它簡化為只有處理程序但是在處理程序的過程當中不是只有由上而下譬如說由行政院跟縣市地方政府然後共同決定 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7370.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7397.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
它裡面還有立法院還有各種不同的縣市議會或者甚至如果以宜蘭為主還有鄉鎮代表會那這些都代表民意這是一個那另外一個就是說如果只有處理程序然後不處理實質也就是說我們把它劃進去譬如說汐止它現在的生活圈是以新北為主還是基隆為主還是台北為主可能您的選民就有不同的意見所以你要以生活圈來劃區劃 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7399.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7426.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
或者是要以譬如說可能是跟自己的剛剛有委員有提到我是原住民的區劃為主那就各種不同的想法但是呢我們不能任由這些想法一直發散出去要把它收攏所以我們才會說爭議很大那過去呢這個歷任呢好多委員不管是朝野的委員都有提到甚至我們自己行政院有六次但六次都沒有辦法成功不是因為委員不夠努力而是因為意見太多 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7427.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7449.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
你說六四是指法的部分還是法律法律是意見無法收容那委員如果會程序歸程序啦或是說這個剛剛講的就是一些背景問題那我想跟部長討論的是實質上的問題是實質上的問題就是我剛剛所說的很多委員會希望爭取最好的在自己的選區 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7450.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7477.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
啊不好的不要在我的選區就是也沒有好不好啦這個這個都是都是我們的民眾嘛不會有就像基隆市長謝國良的立場或者是說這個台北市新北市長侯友宇的立場不一樣他們是首長嘛你說你要把新北市的六個區撥給基隆市那當然行政總長立場一定會認為他一定會認為不是那麼的妥當嘛我過去的發言他的立場就是這樣子嘛但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7477.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7499.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
不同樣的一個位置不一樣的行政單位所看到的角度是不一樣地方行政首長有地方首長看到行政區劃的一個角度那我們內政部是看全國性的我們會有全國性的一個角度那一定是現況有一些需要討論的事情嘛所以說基隆其實基隆當然是首長討論比較多那當然我是系者的民意代表嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7500.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7525.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
系者民眾也會有相關的討論那一定是看到現況的問題比如說生活圈剛剛部長講的生活圈或是交通建設基隆捷運為什麼一條基隆捷運需要跨到這個台北市 汐止 基隆交通建設需要三個行政所擋在同一邊變成說地方建設的一個討論它的程序會比其他地方來的困難或者說增加一些程序所以大家才希望說在行政 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
7526.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
7550.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
去化方面能夠做一些檢討來減少一些我們行政程序上面本位主義上面的一些摩擦所以才請教部長您看到的實際的問題有哪一些可能可以怎麼樣來檢討我們尊重每一位縣市地方首長的看法我看到的問題就是剛剛所說的如果你是屬於中央層級要決定的部分的話我可能要決定譬如說北北基島是不是一個大的生活圈 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
7551.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
7566.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
所以既然是一個大的生活圈在現在行政院他並沒有強制要求說這個大的生活圈變成是一個大的城市而是先解決您剛所說的捷運是不是可以四通八達這個北北基桃都可以在裡面甚至有人希望可以延伸到宜蘭我想你也非常清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
7567.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
7584.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
這是我們看到的但是地方裡面譬如說新北市你新北市區公所下面還有一些禮要不要調整那如果你調整出去或調整進來會牽涉到什麼會牽涉到議員的額度又不一樣了人口不一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
7585.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
7607.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
對我的立場來說其實細子病走說不定我這個問題就不在但其實我不是很在乎啦好的方案才是最重要啦那我知道可能今天臨時跟您討論這個比較敏感的問題你也不敢講太直接但我既然知道既然我們要再次討論行政區劃法那我想北北基這個問題是不是未來就會被討論出來那我們行政院必須要有自己行政院的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
7608.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
7636.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
方案或者是立場跟想法來做一些討論我們行政院的方案譬如說國發會它有對於公共建設的部分會比較好因為可以跨縣市那但是呢財政部的話就財政收支另外不同部會我們內政部就是管這個行政區域的主管機關所以我們會很困難那後續就是希望有一些更實質上的一些想法能夠做討論所以我們非常支持說如果用公聽會的方式把不管是跨部會或者是跨地方政府請過來 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
7638.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
7664.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
請他們講一下他們對於這個行政區劃的基本上的看法後面理解可不可以提出比較建設性的方案的話我們都會遵照各個縣市地方政府所提供的意見好謝謝部長謝謝主席好謝謝廖先祥委員這委員跟我一樣即便行政區會影響到我們的選區但是人民的利益是比我們個人政治利益還重要的好謝謝那這個丁學忠委員發言完之後我們休息三分鐘現在請丁學忠委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
7667.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
7672.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
感謝主席 感謝副長我認為最近在地方都聽到一些像我們這個道路特寬的開發案上到我們這個土地證書審議小組去討論 時間都比較久但是在這裡也希望跟我們的國庭討論一下 有一些案 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
7689.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
7693.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
需要土地整合 都已經來完成了在那邊把岸上跟我們國的神蹟發現有時候會五百斤新澤園 還有時候又會卡成古雖然我們來這邊國王啊 請勞您來這個新澤園 想有什麼可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
7711.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
7735.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
來改變這個方式 增加我們區域的速度 加這個效力感謝委員的關心 我知道有兩個你委員比較在乎 我請我們的行政董事長跟你回答一下好 委員委員所垂詢的部分應該是滿國大大就上禮拜在土增小組討論這兩案那這兩案其實在討論的過程中其實小組針對整個案子的一些公閉性部分 還有一些疑慮 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
7736.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
7749.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
那也請雲林縣政府在補正中,那我們會盡量去協助雲林縣政府在補強這一塊那事先做檢視,那如果過程中如果沒有問題的話,會盡快來排會處理一個見識案,其實我們覺得說,時間拖延久,對地方的發電會有關啦或是說土地清修已經達到90多塊啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
7758.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
7762.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
時間也已經達到九十五分鐘了創業的國分 希望我們這個省座可以維持當這個公共利益跟我們個人民眾的利益這個中間的均衡可以順利的合作來完成這個國分希望可以來到三天 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
7780.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
7794.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
定委員的關心我們會盡速來處理不過土增的條例就是這個樣子那我們盡快會再跟雲林縣政府請他趕快把我們所這個會議結論裡面的部分趕快回應給我們那我們就可以盡快來通過土增 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
7796.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
7800.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
好 感謝姑娘 另外還有一項關於我們這個中教園間團體和大陸交流我們內政部正在向公開說明說有推出赴大陸交流資訊公開的專項歡迎你們團體和合作社要去大陸進行約會或是中教交流進行來登記來登錄這個活動資訊 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
7826.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
7834.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
我們鼓勵我們的社團宗教業務他們去登記他們為我的選區是很多的我們這個宗教的這個所在我們也希望說他們落實登記之後像之前像之前我過去也跟國長提起他們進行宗教交流所以要去接受調查 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
7856.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
7861.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
這個國分過去都有發生過像這個國分我們登錄實際來 登錄之後真的實際來 落實到我們政府的政策登錄公開化 透明化之後後來會發生什麼問題報告委員 我很感謝委員的支持我們現在就是 只要去大陸 大陸來沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
7880.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
7891.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
我們是採取鼓勵制度啦 有一些宗教團體因為我們有本屆宗教團體的主巡會議六十幾個大廟來參加 因為這是好的風險所以在我們定期的部分是只有定期社團還是廟本身譬如說婚姻 白宮 媽祖經 只有這樣而已 裡面的人沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
7902.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
7920.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
自然人沒有在那裡面他去的這個時間跟去的地點讓我們知道一下而且是採取自由的他如果不願意登記我們也沒有辦法我知道現在只是只是在公開資訊的話那未來會不會變成是有調查的方式的話那是 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
7921.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
7930.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
牽涉到我們的國安法跟反滲透法那又不一樣那不一定是內政部那不是內政部的主要主政我知啊我知啊這個國分我們也需要好好了解一下我們從高高樓從高高樓去到大樓我們金雙石都中國的事我們騙人家跟選舉搞的都有事我們就覺得很奇怪 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
7943.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
7944.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
包括委員這個要整體的可能要詢問相關的單位才會比較清楚希望啦 我也鼓勵宗教團體可以落實我們政府的政策 落實經濟這個資訊透明 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
7958.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
7962.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
我們都支持這個政策 希望宗教交流單純化就好真的六十來年我們就單純化就好 不過後來又發生到要再去調查我們覺得這樣對宗教交流的風向意向就已經不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
7984.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
8003.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
不過委員這裡面有立案登記的一個宗廟團體其實都是鼓勵人向上而且是以宗教為目的啦但是這裡面還有未立案未立案我們也鼓勵啦那未立案的話就比較複雜一點我想這一點可能要請委員多了解一下是 我了解 好 感謝國長 謝謝好 謝謝 按照剛剛宣告我們休息三分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
8270.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
8279.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
報委員會我們繼續開會我們繼續進行詢答接下來請黃建斌委員質詢黃建斌委員改書面下一位我們請徐欣穎委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
8298.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
8301.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
好 謝謝主席 本席有請部長 劉部長劉部長有請徐委員好部長好 今天我們這個召委非常的用心等於是我們這個所謂的行政區劃法已經是一部行政區劃法草案它已經是蒙城的一部草案 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
8327.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
8349.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
您知道从什么时候开始到现在吗从好像民国81年对对对民国81年到现在但历经难虑都没有人好像真正的很重视而且整个的来推动所以今天本席在开始咨询跟您讨论之前我想我们这一个 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
8350.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
8376.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
这个行政区划法的草案它关乎的刚刚前面很多委员都有讲到不管是我们这个整个的治理效能生活圈的整合甚至民主的原则各方面它凸显了很多问题所以我们才会觉得说这个草案不能再躺在那了我们必须好好的来讨论当然本席也听到部长您刚刚回答很多委员你都 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
8377.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
8404.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
等於說你很有經驗不管擔任民意代表或是擔任這個行政首長你覺得這個法案要討論會有很多的很繁雜的甚至也很多的困難很多的阻礙但是本席在這裡要先講的就是說難勝能勝所以才難能可貴我們的這個中央單位我們不要只搞政治對立或鬥爭應該多做一些解決民眾的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
8406.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
8431.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
所以今天的讨论包括等一下本席提到的点也许有些会跟新竹有关但是我觉得我都不预设立场我也不为了不管是自己或是我们纯粹新竹县的利益而是要站在民众的需求还有这个时代的变迁它应该要能够来因应所以部长您认同吧这样的立场 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
8432.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
8458.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
徐委員所提的我很多都認同只有一件事情就是我們沒有搞鬥爭我們都是依法來行政尤其今天所提到的行政區劃法它是涉及到跨政黨跟跨縣市的我們感受就是說中央多做一些真正治理還有對民眾好的少搞一些對立接著本席要來就教我們現在整個的行政區劃法 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
8459.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
8487.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
它常常是都不太能反映都市人口的都市的發展跟人口的變遷所以產生了很多的問題等於是凸顯出我們行政區劃的這個要盡快來進行譬如我想剛剛王美惠委員也有提到我們知道嘉義縣市人口加起來已經等於嘉義市人口已經有26萬加上嘉義縣 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
8488.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
8504.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
那这两个县市它分治那包含新竹县市也是一样新竹县现在人口已经60万新竹市46万加起来已经有100多万100万以上那现在像这种小县市 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
8506.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
8534.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
我們人民生活有很多的嫌惡設施包含像生命紀念園區像焚化爐大家都不是很想要但是如果這種生活圈或是區域的這種治理它可以整合的話那就不見得每個縣市它一定要有自己的可能像我們其實新竹縣市早期生命園區幾乎都在新竹市 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
8534.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
8554.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
當然因為人口的一直的增加大概新竹縣也開始在思考這個問題所以這個部分在未來您應該也是會碰到應該也是會碰到就是說我們這個縣市所以站在這樣子您這個中央的立場是如何 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
8555.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
8569.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
報告委員那個其實行政區劃法就是我剛所說的你沒有辦法容納所有的從國家發展到地方村里組織的部分所以我的意思就是說應該這樣講我們行政區劃你要去討論的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
8573.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
8592.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
你一定會跟地方政府嘛跟所謂民意代表去溝通的時候那你的主力就來自於現在本席接下來要一直跟您談的這些問題嘛所以您也一直的講我剛剛聽前面一些委員都說很困難很繁雜還有可能 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
8593.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
8607.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
有些人會同意有些人你說什麼大零價少然後多零價大零價小多零價少所以這個東西就是所以我本席的意思就是說我們應該是去討論怎麼樣對這個區域是好的 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
8613.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
8631.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
我想您大概不是很懂我們的意思接著我也譬如說像新竹縣市合併之前吵過你應該有印象像這個就是新竹縣市合併是因為新竹縣市長期它其實在民國七十幾年之前本來是合併的後來分開了 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
8633.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
8656.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
那現在分開以後各自發展得非常好然後又有這種合併的聲音但是本席要一直強調我沒有特定的立場但是新竹縣市你也知道最大的新竹科學園區在那很多的科學園區的工作的人口他是來自新竹縣市的所以新竹縣到新竹市有一個叫金國橋的 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
8657.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
8682.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
他這一條橋已經長期塞車20幾年了沒有解決因為縣市的分治縣市的分治沒有解決所以竹科的人可能正常時間不是上下班時間我可能騎車或開車20分鐘到上下班時間一個小時那如果再加上下雨一個半小時 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
8683.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
8693.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
這個就是一個很大的問題再來本席這個一個統計數字你看一下我們以這個稅收新竹縣市加起來的稅收是全國排名第五 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
8698.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
8726.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
贏過另外兩個六都六都的桃園市跟台南市但是我們得到新竹縣市得到補助款的比例是全國第九就加起來它的得到的比例是第九那我這樣講不是凸顯說我要爭取什麼我們今天不管升格或不升格不能是利益考量但是你看我講的二十幾年的塞車情況 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
8727.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
8751.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
其實大家都現在每一個人都覺得這個我在這邊住30年20幾年永遠塞車我們中央也沒有協助你也知道一個交通的整個改善拓寬這不可能地方縣市政府可以這個跟這個我們整個的區域計畫是有關的那再來因為時間關係最後我要再提一點就是我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
8753.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
8773.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
整個的這個區域規劃尤其是升格它不是一種獎勵升格像這個你應該知道地方行政機關組織條例譬如我舉例像桃園市桃園市升格之後它的面積一樣人口數升格後升格前沒有差很多 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
8774.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
8786.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
但是因為他是直轄市所以變成他的公務人員新增了三千多人他的財政負擔也是一年人事費也增加了一百多億 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
8786.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
8813.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
那實際上這個服務的量能跟品質有沒有比較好不知道但是可能未來如果要考慮這個的話包含嘉義縣市新竹縣市或其他縣市你要合併的時候你一樣這麼大的面積人口數你合併之後他也不會急劇可是你如果合併之後你的這個人事費還有人事的這相關規定這個都要考量 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
8814.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
8823.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
您有聽懂本席表達的所以這些未來可能都是那我們今天因為主席排了這個案我們大家必須來正視必須來正視 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
8826.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
8851.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
所以這個很多縣市 再還有一個彰化縣彰化縣在台中升格之後其實整個彰化縣的人口也整個有吸食效應也這樣離開所以我們在考慮整個包括從民國八十幾年這個行政區區劃法草案到現在本來只有一個直轄市現在變六個可是行政區劃法草案還躺在那裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
8852.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
8876.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
那你這個直轄市升格之後對旁邊的縣市它造成的影響跟效益這些我們都希望這個中央能夠來重視那現在既然如果要開啟本席是認為就是說是不是要不斷的溝通您一直說沒有共識沒有共識更要不斷的溝通討論更加努力的來凝聚共識 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
8877.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
8900.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
如果能夠達成而且能夠對台灣我們各縣市的不管是生活區域治理各方面能夠更好我們希望您這內政部長這邊也許跟院長反映總統反映我們應該積極來做剛剛本席沒提到就是北北基的這個大生活圈甚至大台北地區的這個交通各方面 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
8901.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
8915.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
所以不是我們民眾不希望只有到颱風降才有所有區域治理的整合我們希望生活上各方面也都能夠改善今天就是反映民意也希望部長部長你最後有沒有什麼要回應的 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
8919.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
8944.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
你們非常的關心也非常的了解狀況了您剛提到新竹縣市的合併升格升格是最重要不是只有合併但是就有人提到說那新竹縣市為什麼不跟苗栗一起這是一個那還有一個您剛提到中張投那彰化跟桃園中張投跟南投要不要跟台中一起那還有提到嘉義縣市合併升格但是旁邊的雲林跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
8946.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
8963.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
其他的縣市會不會就有不同的意見就是說這個是我們在考量當中啊就是跟區域治理或者是跟預算的分配其實這很重要還有一個您提到零幣效應有這個焚化爐或者是殯葬設施通常啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
8964.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
8980.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
大家都不希望那個畫到自己的選區裡面那這個就是我們所碰到最大的困擾所以為什麼到現在為止啊有些比較小的這個縣市啊他們的這個這個林碧效應應該有的這個焚化爐都沒有以我們在高雄的例子來講 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
8981.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
9001.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
我們遠從這個中部還有到東部都代收幫忙處理這個環境的廢棄物那其實是非常大的困擾甚至跨離島都有那為什麼因為就是跟區域治理也產生不同的困擾所以也是提供給委員做參考那我們當然會來努力 這些我知道但這個跟每個行政首長他 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
9002.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
9019.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
要來做而且怎麼樣去突破這個都有關那剛剛你既然講到新竹縣市最後最後我想講一下當初新竹縣市的升格會為什麼會最後失敗而且被社會指責是因為當時只是一黨之私 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
9020.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
9044.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
因人設事所以造成了一些問題所以我們希望行政區劃要公開透明而且要長期規劃我本席最後強調人民的利益公眾的利益是唯一考量而且是最重要的考量希望部長我們接下來如果中央要來推動也不要因為很多困難都不溝通不凝聚不去討論所以我們希望還是要進步啦好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
9047.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
9073.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
好 謝謝徐欣穎委員的諮詢 下一位我們請鄭天才委員諮詢好 主席 有請部長還有中副主委劉副部長 中副主委有請 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
9079.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
9103.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
部長好 政府主委好今天談行政企劃法非常謝謝趙偉安排也提出了這個草案這個憲法第108條規定的很明確由中央立法並執行之行政企劃行政企劃必須要由中央來立法在內政部的報告裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
9104.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
9126.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
也提到從81年內政部提出這個行政企劃相關的立法工作雖然這個在當時的立法院沒有完成但是還是要做畢竟這是憲法所賦予的職責所賦予的職責在怎麼樣去 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
9128.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
9154.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
這個積極的溝通協調提出這個好的一個法律的查案那現在既然這個召委安排了這個行政企劃法也提案了所以我的建議就是這個內政部應該也要提出相應的這些最起碼審查條文的時候要有一個把這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
9157.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
9184.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
認為經過多年的一個討論能不能讓大家都能夠有一個往共識的方向去努力的地方那對原住民族而言行政企劃法如果能夠通過對我們後面還沒有完成的事情就會有幫助譬如說這個原住民族基本法第四條規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
9188.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
9211.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
這個要實行原住民族自治因為現在只有這個山地鄉的這個地方自治還沒有民族的自治所以原住民族基本法第四條特別明定要制定原住民族自治法這會跟行政企劃也會有關係 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
9213.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
9237.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
那蔡總統在105年8月1號向原住民族道歉的時候也特別承諾我們會加快的把這個原住民族自治法送到立法院審議但是蔡總統任內的8年並沒有提出連從原民會送到行政院都沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
9239.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
9265.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
這個部分也是從原住民族基本法通過之後陳水扁總統任內有把原住民族自治法從嚴明會送到這個行政院那馬英九總統任內也有跟原住民族自治相關的這些草案嚴明會送到這個行政院 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
9266.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
9289.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
行政院還把相關的這些草案送到立法院只不過是立法院後來沒有沒有完成是很遺憾很可惜那在過去的8年現在已經9年了我們先講這個原住民族基本法94年公佈施行現在正好20年了20年了20年這個前任的 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
9297.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
9319.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
蘇貞昌院長他說要分流立法既然要分流立法原住民族自治法一步到位有困難所以有分流立法接下來我就提了這個這個跟內政部的職責有關係我們看外島彭福縣金門縣連江縣 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
9322.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
9350.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
都是縣他人口也不多人口面積都不多所以我曾經提出在上一屆提了這個地方制度法的修法要成立原住民族自治縣只要三萬人以上合併原住民的鄉鎮市合併之後達到人口三萬人以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
9351.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
9381.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
就是這個三萬人是根據參考什麼就是參考外島的人口數當然我們的面積絕對是比他們大絕對比他們大所以這個要成立自治線這樣的一個建議這樣的一個草案當初在上一屆沒有完成請問一下部長這個地方制度法如果我們提出草案來修正的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
9382.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
9410.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
這要成立原住民族自治縣部長的意見報告委員我不是很清楚說所謂的原住民族鄉鎮市合併後之三人口達三萬人以上那他是根據什麼樣子的法源來授權的那目前在我們的地方製度法裡面或者行政區劃法裡面呢並沒有這樣的法源基礎就是要修法就是要修法因為既然這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
9412.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
9437.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
以民族以民族來去成立有困難的話那是不是最起碼整個一個縣 增加一個縣就好增加一個縣原住民族自治縣 一個縣那個只要是跟這個當然要經過 我的條文當時是這樣都要經過 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
9440.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
9469.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
各縣市政府以及議會的同意譬如說譬如說這個以南投縣來講南投縣信義鄉跟這個仁愛鄉他要合併跟其他的鄉要合併成立自治縣的話必須要經過南投縣議會南投縣政府的同意譬如說 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
9470.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
9497.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
這個加一阿里山鄉也是一樣阿里山鄉事實上這些我上次這些縣都願意了為什麼他那麼遙遠偏遠了以高雄市來講部長你在高雄市待過嗎那三個區要離開的話我相信高雄市議會的同意都會同意是這樣的所以這個部分的 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
9498.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
9500.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
這個未來希望能夠繼續的討論 好不好謝謝時間的關係 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
9506.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
9533.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
好謝謝鄭天才委員的質詢下一位蘇巧慧委員改書面下一位請葉元之委員葉元之委員葉元之委員好不在好我們現在這個登記發言的委員除了不在場者之外其餘均已發言完畢我們的詢答結束黃劍斌委員蘇巧慧委員所提的書面質詢列入記錄並刊登公報書面質詢及位及答覆部分請相關單位於一週內以書面答覆並複製本會 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
9535.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
9541.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
報告委員會這次會議我們要進行法案條文的宣讀現在請宣讀討論事項所列法案之條文請宣讀 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
9543.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
9566.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
委员牛雪婷等17人提案委员邱正军等18人提案名称行政区划法委员牛雪婷等17人提案委员邱正军等18人提案第一条本法依中华民国宪法第108条第一项第二款规定制定之委员牛雪婷等17人提案委员邱正军等18人提案第二条本法所称主管机关在中央委内政部在直辖市为直辖市政府在县市为县市政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
9567.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
9594.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
委员刘许婷等17人提案委员邱正军等18人提案第三条本法所称行政区划指行政区域之新设备指或调整请向所称行政区域指省指辖市县市或乡镇市区委员刘许婷等17人提案委员邱正军等18人提案第四条本法所称行政区域之调整指下列情形一划分一行政区域为二以上之行政区域二合并二以上行政区域之一部或全部为一行政区域三划分一行政区域 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
9595.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
9612.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
之一部并入另一行政区域四其他有关行政区域之调整第五条委员刘许婷等17人提案第五条行政区域有下列情形之一者除依地方制度法第七条之一规定办理改制者外得依本法规定办理行政区域化依配合政府层级或组织变更 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
9612.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
9638.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
2.因行政管辖之需要3.配合国土整体规划4.因地理环境变迁5.因政治经济社会文化或其他特殊情势变更委员邱正军等18人提案训文修正为行政区域有下列情形之一者除县市改制或与其他直辖市县市合并改制为直辖市应依地方制度法制规定办理外得依本法规定办理行政区划第三款修正为配合国土发展其余同委员刘许婷等17人提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
9641.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
9652.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
第六条,行政区划应配合国土整体规划并考量下列因素,一,人口规模及成长趋势,二,自然及人文资源之合理分配,三,山川湖泊海岸及海域之分布。 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
9652.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
9677.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
四 族群特性及人文历史脉络五 地方财政六 产业交通教育文化之发展七 环境保护及生态保育八 灾害防救九 都会区生活圈或生态圈之归属十 地方民意十一 选举区之划分十二 其他影响地方治理之事项委员邱正军等18人提案第四款修正为选举区之划分删除第五款之第十一款第二款一列第五款其余同委员牛许婷等17人提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
9680.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
9705.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
第七条行政区划计划由下列机关拟定后提出但直辖市山地原住民区之行政区划由直辖市主管机关或直辖市山地原住民区公所拟定后提出一涉及省直辖市或县市之行政区划者中央主管机关或相关直辖市县市主管机关二涉及乡镇市之行政区划者县主管机关或相关乡镇市公所 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
9706.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
9721.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
三涉及紫霞市或市之区之行政区划者紫霞市或市主管机关人民或团体别减负相关资料以书面或网际网路方式向该管机关提出行政区划之建议该管机关应于收到建议后60日内回复并公告之 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
9721.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
9749.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
委員邱正軍等18人提案第7條行政區劃由下列機關提出一涉及省直轄市或縣市之行政區劃由中央主管機關或相關直轄市縣市主管機關提出二涉及鄉鎮市之行政區劃由縣主管機關或相關鄉鎮市公所提出三涉及直轄市或市之區之行政區劃由直轄市或市主管機關提出但直轄市山地原住民區之行政區劃由直轄市主管機關或直轄市山地原住民區公所提出 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
9750.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
9769.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
第8条委员刘许婷等17任提案第8条各级主管机关乡镇市公所或直辖市山地原住民区公所应邀集应邀集学者专家民间团体地方居民代表原住民族代表及关系部落代表表示意见并以适当方式广征意见后拟定行政区化计划草案在命第9条 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
9770.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
9797.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
第一款至第七款第九款第十一款至第十三款规定之事项行政区划计划草案拟定后应于各该指辖市县市政府及乡镇市区公所公开展览六十日并办理地方公民民意调查及公听会行政区划计划草案拟定机关应将公开展览及公听会之日起及地点刊登政府公报或新闻指任何人或团体得于公开展览期间内已书面在名姓名或名称及地址向该机关提出意见 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
9798.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
9826.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
行政区划计划草案拟定机关应参佐第二项地方公民民意调查及公听会之意见提出行政区划计划送交该管处管机关审议并刊登政府公报或新闻纸有下列情形之一需办理之下是县市或乡镇市区行政区域调整者得免一第二项规定办理地方公民民意调查因行政区域界限不准有碍行政管理而地级户籍情形与行政区域界限不符 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
9826.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
9851.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
三配合都市计划或土地存化需调整行政区域界限四行政区域内土地面积增加或减少需调整行政区域界限委员邱正军等18人提案第一项第二项为各级主管机关乡镇市公所或是辖市山地原住民区公所提出行政区划前应研拟行政区划计划草案与相关行政区域内公告30日并办理公民民意调查及公听会 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
9852.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
9866.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
前項行政區劃計劃草案應在明第九條第二項第一款至第六款第九款第十一款至第十三款規定之事項第三項同委員牛許廷等17人提案第五項並著作文字修正第九條委員牛許廷等17人提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
9867.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
9887.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
第九条行政区划计划应在以下列示下一行政区划目标二行政区划范围三行政区划原因四行政区划后之行政区域名称五行政区划前后行政区域人口及面积六行政区划前后利弊得失分析七替代方案及其评估八地方公民民意调查之分析及公听会议见之参材理由 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
9888.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
9892.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
9.标注行政区划前后行政界限之行政区域图10. |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
9892.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
9893.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
界限汇杆情形11. |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
9893.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
9901.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
行政区划后相关机关购学校组织变更业务调整人员一波财产一转及自治法规处理之规划12. |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
9901.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
9906.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
行政区划后相关机关购学校预算编制及执行等事项之规划原则13. |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
9906.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
9916.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
其他有关行政区划之事项委员邱正军等18人提案增订第一项为各级主管机关乡镇市公所或直辖市山地原住民区公所 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
9916.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
9931.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
拟定行政区划计划时除有前条第三项之请行外应参佐前条第一项公民民意调查及公听会之意见第二项第八款为八公民民意调查及公听会之分析报告其余同委员有许停等17人提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
9931.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
9950.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
第十条 涉及省直辖市或县市之行政区划计划 由中央主管机关拟定者应送相关直辖市县市主管机关征询其意见 由直辖市县市主管机关拟定者应经该直辖市县市议会同意 涉及其他直辖市 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
9951.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
9965.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
縣市行政區域之調整並應送該指甲市縣市政府及其議會同意涉及鄉鎮市之行政區劃計劃由縣主管機關擬定者應送相關鄉鎮市公所徵詢其意見由鄉鎮市公所擬定者應 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
9966.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
9982.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
应经该乡镇市民代表会同意涉及其他乡镇市行政区域之调整并应送该乡镇市公所及其代表会同意涉及区之行政区划计划应送该指辖市或市议会征询其意见但涉及指辖市山地原住民区之行政区划计划 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
9983.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
10002.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
由直辖市主管机关拟定者应送该直辖市山地原住民区公所征询其意见由直辖市山地原住民区公所拟定者应经该直辖市山地原住民区民代表会同意涉及其他直辖市山地原住民区行政区域之调整并应送该直辖市山地原住民区公所及其代表会同意 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
10003.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
10024.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
受徵詢之直轄市縣市主管機關或鄉鎮市區公所應徵詢該地方議會或代表會之意見涉及原住民族地區者應並徵詢原住民族中央主管機關及關係部落之意見請向徵詢所得之意見由直轄市縣市主管機關或鄉鎮市區公所彙整並成上級主管機關 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
10025.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
10052.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
委员邱正军等18人提案第四项后段修正为并连同该地方议会或代表会之意见并成上级主管机关其余同委员刘许廷等17人提案第一至第四项第十一条委员刘许廷等17人提案第十一条行政区划计划其审议及核定机关如下应涉及省职辖市或县市之行政区划计划由中央主管机关审议通过后报行政院核定 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
10053.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
10075.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
二涉及乡镇市区执行政区划计划由直辖市县市主管机关审议通过后报中央主管机关核定前项审议及核定各应于60日内完成但请行特殊者其审议及核定期限得以延长延长以60日为限第一项核定应包括实施日期其日期应配合相关地方公职人员任期届满之日 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
10075.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
10098.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
委員邱振均等18人提案第一項同委員牛許琴等17人提案第一項第二項第三項為前項核定應包括實施日期其日期應配合相關地方公職人員任期屆滿之日行政區劃計劃為行政院或中央主管機關於60日內不予核定者各級機關得依公民投票法規定提出地方性公民投票不受公民投票法 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
10099.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
10127.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
第9条至第13条及第23条之规定行政院或中央主管机关应于投票结果公告后依其结果办理之委员扭曲亭等17人提案第12条行政区划计划经该管主管机关审议通过后行政院或中央主管机关应任应部与核定者应于60日内交付该行政区划计划区域公民附决请向附决准用公民投票法关于地方性公民投票之规定 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
10128.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
10146.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
委员刘雪婷等17人提案第13条各级主管机关为审议行政区区划计划应涉行政区划计划审议委员会并置委员人数如下其中学者专家社会公正人士及地方居民代表人数不得少于总数二分之一任意性别不得少于总数三分之一 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
10147.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
10175.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
但涉及原住民族地区者原住民族代表或关系部落代表不得少于总数三分之一应涉及省 直辖市或县市之行政区划计划者21人至27人二涉及乡镇市区之行政区划计划者15人至21人行政区划计划审议委员会会议应做成会议记录并公开之行政区划计划审议委员会之设置及审议办法由中央主管机关定之委员邱振军等18人提案第12条 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
10176.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
10196.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
各级主管机关为审议行政区域化计划应邀集学者、专家、社会公正人士及相关行政机关之代表以合议制方式办理,请向成员人数11人至25人,其中学者、专家及社会公正人士人数不得少于总数三分之一,成员任意性别不得少于总数三分之一。 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
10197.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
10221.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
委員劉許廷等17人提案第14條委員邱振均等18人提案第13條涉及省直轄市或縣市之行政區劃計劃中央主管機關應於收到行政院核定公文之次日起30日內將行政區劃計劃發布並公告其實施日期涉及鄉鎮市區之行政區劃計劃直轄市縣市主管機關應收到中央主管機關核定之 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
10222.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
10247.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
公文之次日起30日内将行政区划计划发布并公告其实施委员牛许婷等17人提案第15条第15条各级主管机关于行政区划计划发布后应会同相关机关办理下列事项一关于业务之移转及交接之事项二关于财产之移转及交接之事项三关于前二款之争议协调事项四其他经中央主管机关指定之事项 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
10248.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
10272.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
请向第二款财产其移转划分原则如下因原行政区域所属之机关购及学校改立后其经管之不动产其中公用部分产权移转行政区划后之行政区域非公用部分仍属原行政区域所有动产部分其属行政区划后之行政区域需要使用者随同移转不需使用者仍属原行政区域所有 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
10273.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
10302.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
二 坐落行政区划后之行政区域内之原行政区域所属房地其属公用及做公共设施使用之公用财产其产权依转行政区划后之行政区域其于人归原行政区域三 非属行政区划相关行政区域所有之财产仍依原有权属四 第一款及第二款规定于原行政区划于原行政区域废止时其属原行政区域之财产归属于行政区划后之行政区域 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
10303.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
10324.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
第一项移转及交接之事项应于行政区划计划实施前完成各级主管机关会同相关机关办理第一项第三款事项经协调仍无法解决时得报共同上级机关决定之行政区划后相关行政区域内业务财产之移转交接争议协调及其他相关事项之办法由中央主管机关定之 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
10325.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
10336.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
委员邱正军等18人提案第14条第一项第三款为三关于业务财产之移转及交接之争议协调事项其余同委员牛许婷等17人提案第15条 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
10338.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
10356.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
委员牛许婷等17人提案第16条委员邱振军等18人提案第15条行政区划计划实施后应由相关指辖市县市主管机关会统相关机关依该计划疏离界标测绘界限与界标位置及计算面积并汇聚图说于6个月内到中央主管机关备查 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
10357.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
10382.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
委员刘许晴等17人提案第17条委员邱振军等18人提案第16条行政区划计划实施后自治法规之处理原则如下因新设置行政区域有继续使用原行政区域自治法规之必要者得由新设置地方政府核定公告后继续适用其继续适用期间不得逾二年而废止自行政区域其自治法规除以钱款规定有继续适用之必要者应由新设置地方政府废止 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
10382.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
10404.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
三非属前二款之情形者原行政区域之自治法规应由该地方自治团体修正或废止委员林许婷等17人提案第18条委员邱振军等18人提案第17条行政区划计划实施后相关行政区域之机关及所属机关购学校预算之执行依下列方式处理依其业务位移转折原 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
10405.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
10431.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
未移转者原机关购集学校一原列预算继续执行二企业务经营转者承受机关购集学校人一移转前原列相关预算继续执行委员林许婷等17人提案第19条委员邱正军等18人提案第18条行政区划计划实施后相关行政区域之财政授之划分调整日期中央法律与命令之适用及公务人员移拨等事项 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
10432.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
10461.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
准用地方制度法第87條之三第二項及第五項至第九項規定委員扭曲亭等17人提案第20條委員邱振軍等18人提案第19條本法實行細則由中央主管機關定之委員扭曲亭等17人提案第21條委員邱振軍等18人提案第20條本法自公布日實行宣讀完畢好謝謝我們做以下決議討論事項所列之議案另定期繼續審查本次會議到此結束現在散會 |