| IVOD_ID |
166039 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/166039 |
| 日期 |
2025-12-01 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-4-19-13 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期經濟委員會第13次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
13 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
19 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
經濟委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期經濟委員會第13次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-12-01T12:18:09+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-12-01T12:28:17+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:10:08 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/3f8163f3efc01af7e014a084b6c4a171b28663f7a8bd118017e9c371ce2549799aee49d70c0691da5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
葉元之 |
| 委員發言時間 |
12:18:09 - 12:28:17 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-12-01T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期經濟委員會第13次全體委員會議（事由：邀請經濟部部長、國家發展委員會主任委員、行政院經貿談判辦公室首長、外交部首長及國家安全局首長就「台美關稅協議之談判方針、進度、爭議事項、雙方可能承諾及台灣產業之影響評估」進行報告，並備質詢。） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
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請談判代表 經濟部長好 請兩位先請教一下談判代表 部長好我先問一下代表因為我們現在很多訊息我們都是從外媒得知然後政府機關雖然有來報告但是講的都非常有限我先問一個問題如果到時候代表談出來的結果國人不接受民意反彈很大 立法院也不通過那結果會怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
40.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
69.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
我想這個問題我們最重要是我們談判的結果是對國人是好的對產業是好的那是你認為嘛你是要接受監督你當然說自己好啊如果說大家不覺得好如果輿論沸騰反對那來得及嗎如果我們跟美方達成一個共識之後這個會馬上跟國會報告但是如果我們不接受的話美方他可能就要回到原來的稅率了 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
70.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
90.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
就是說你談完之後你會來國會報告然後如果國會覺得你談得太爛了然後民意也覺得非常爛然後大家就會說不行然後你就會跟美國講說我們不接受然後重談是這樣嗎我想美國對這一方面很在意因為這一次他的目標就是要降低他們回答我的問題啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
93.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
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| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
談判的結果是他要給我們對等降稅然後呢不疊加當然是對等不要繞圈圈啦因為我們現在當然是希望說談到關稅低嘛對不對最好15如果是15%就跟日本韓國歐盟都一樣嘛然後不要疊加嘛但是是看我們要付出什麼代價嘛那如果我們付出的代價 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
116.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
136.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
讓輿論認為說這個代價好像超過我們的想像那大家不接受那來得及嗎你會再去跟美國講重談嗎我是問一個這個問題啦程序性的問題啦程序性的問題在這一方面就是會重談嘛美國是要我們執行他才會給我們剛剛講的優惠性的這些代價所以就變成說你變白談了再去重談嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
136.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
161.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
否則他就不會執行了嘛就是這樣嘛所以我為什麼問這個問題呢就是因為其他國家都會適當揭露嘛因為他們會一方面了解民意的看法一方面跟美方談判有的時候國內的意見有成為對外談判的一個籌碼但我們台灣這邊就完全避而不談所以就是一翻兩瞪眼要嘛就是跟國會或是民眾講說你就接受不然就要重談要嘛就是你要嘛就是說這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
162.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
179.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
不然怎麼辦我覺得這個其實是蠻不負責的這跟之前民進黨自己要求什麼兩岸談服貿一定要公平公正公開啊什麼那個是背道而馳的啦那沒關係我們就先姑且相信你們談的是國人會接受 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
179.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
204.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
那現在一直講說一個台灣模式啦我覺得你們講得很具體但大家聽得非常模糊我想請教一下按照日本韓國他們的做法是說要降關稅可以你日本韓國你要投資我多少金額或者是要跟我採購多少金額是這樣的模式但台灣不是嘛你們意思這樣對不對所以我們是用G2G跟他們的模式不一樣他們是要看採購多少投資多少才能決定降關稅我們不用是這個意思嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
206.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
234.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
我們的模式是依照我們在整個談判裡面的最佳的模式就是希望得到最好也協助業者不要講空話啦不要講空話我一直想什麼叫台灣模式嘛日本韓國是說投資多少金額比如說日本投資5500億金額或者是採購多少東西換得關稅下降嘛那我們不是用這樣的模式嘛我們是用比如說什麼G2G啊協助美國的什麼產業形成聚落我們是用這種模式嘛對吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
235.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
248.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
是吧 部長是這樣嗎那為什麼我們採購的都不算我們不是有軍購嗎韓國也把軍購納入就是降低關稅的籌碼之一歐盟也把軍購納入降低關稅的籌碼之一為什麼台灣都不能納入 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
250.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
274.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
我們在談判裡面有商業機會包括投資及採購但是我看其他國家有些大部分也是沒有把軍購放在他的有啊歐盟就有啊韓國也有啊為什麼我們不拿這個第二個具體問一下台灣模式是說我們廠商到美國去去投資形成產業聚落像科學園區那樣請問一下你承諾美國多少產值承諾美國多少產值 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
280.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
306.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
這是部長回答還是代表回答沒有這樣的承諾沒有承諾產值所以我們到時候講一講跟他們說不好意思喔我們的廠商都沒有要過去喔零產值美國也接受嗎不是我們當然有跟企業界有互相的盤點跟溝通企業界有這樣的意願以後我們才協助他們嘛他們如果完全沒有意願如果我們完全沒有意願所以到時候假設我們的廠商都沒有意願 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
307.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
330.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
然後都沒有過去 美國接受嗎沒有 我們已經有做過溝通了所以現在是 你現在計算是多少產值要過去多少要過去這個 等談判完以後再向委員報告喔 又是談判完 不是你這個什麼都不能講所以其實你也是有承諾一個產值嘛所以其實你也是有承諾一個產值 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
331.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
349.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
那就不用騙了就是你也是告訴他們講說我們用G2G的方式軍購那些都不算但是我們承諾你我們多少廠商要過去投資然後會幫你創造多少就業機會跟多少產值可不可以換得我們的關稅下降 是這樣嘛模式是這樣嘛 沒錯吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
350.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
368.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
還是要廠商有意願我們才會協助廠商有沒有意願也是你說算了有時候你也會有時候你也會經濟部那麼廠商多少也會怕政府不會啦我們都會協助廠商第二你不能講第三我提醒一下不能把說產業外移都講得好像這麼的美好 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
369.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
389.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
如果產業萬一這麼美好的話我們台灣何必希望其他國家人到我們這邊投資呢因為到我們這邊投資可以增加我們的產值可以提高我們就業機會嘛所以我們的公司去國外投資多多少少也會影響到我們這裡的就業機會跟產值嘛所以立足台灣是第一步嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
389.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
416.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
才有第二步當然啦不是啦他本來可以在台灣多設一個廠嘛現在就配合政府政策就到美國去設廠嘛而且到美國美國設廠也不見得有利嘛台積電現在亞利桑那州獲利就減少啦但是還是在獲利就減少啦但是還是在獲利啦但是減少CP值嘛算CP值嘛再問一個啦那現在剛剛很多委員在問齁那個路透社有報導說台積電要去美國幫忙幫忙訓練勞工但是你們否認嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
419.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
441.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
因為談判沒有談到這個東西今天我剛看那個前英特爾的執行長說啊他說就算台灣的有些產業移到美國去生產晶片也沒辦法降低美國對台灣晶片的依賴啦除非經濟版圖位移他說除非做到經濟版圖位移不知道你知道嗎你有看到這個新聞嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
442.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
465.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
但是我不知道所謂的經濟版圖只有幾家公司去沒用啦最好是整個產業鏈移過去啦所以美國會加大力道啦那我就請教一下現在挪威人到英特爾去美國是英特爾的大股東吧 對吧最大股東 對吧 政府10%所以美國政府其實影響到英特爾嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
466.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
491.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
那些挪威人假設帶著台灣的2奈米的機密到了英特爾去認知 我看到英特爾很歡迎他很歡迎他加入啦 很歡迎他加入那請教一下我們現在政府有沒有去跟美國談就說 欸 這個事情不道德喔因為我們已經在司法偵辦當中我們在司法偵辦當中 我們不知道他帶什麼機密去請美國給我一個承諾 假設他有帶機密去的話 你不能用 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
493.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
510.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
我們現在很有善要幫你形成產業聚落可能你未來是我們台灣的最大競爭者但是我們還是願意可是對於這個機密到那邊去政府態度是什麼有沒有跟美國政府講你不能用可不可以靜待司法調查之後大家再來談有沒有這個態度 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
511.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
528.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
我相信第一個我們司法已經調查了用國安法或者是那台積電也用營業秘密法提告了那我相信就是說美國企業他也知道因為提告可能有官司上的一些情形那他 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
529.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
553.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
不是啦 部長你都說你相信 你能夠預測川普嗎你不能說你相信 我說你有沒有去交涉這件事情他的心意又有另外說明 他說他們沒有用到相關機密性的這個技術嘛所以你覺得你覺得你相信嗎所以政府就不用做任何事情 就我們完全相信人性本善 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
554.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
580.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
我完全相信川普 但川普從頭到尾都認為是台灣偷走美國的晶片沒有啊 現在在司法調查啊司法調查是現在針對這個個案調查我現在是說在同時能不能做防弊的動作嘛就去跟美國交涉說你這個就算有的話你不能用否則的話他用了你現在調查出來有什麼有什麼意義勒你只是對他個人的所謂的懲罰而已嘛但對台灣產業的機密的外移政府做了什麼嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
582.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
605.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
我們再請行政部門再給委員說明清楚因為你們大概這個回答的都雞同鴨講他主要是要請教委員請教的是說我們政府在這個過程當中有協助去了解什麼有沒有跟美方去洽談那你們現在所說的對啊 因為美國政府是英特爾的股東嘛請會後再跟委員來說明清楚好嗎好 謝謝 |