| IVOD_ID |
16600 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16600 |
| 日期 |
2025-04-17 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-23-7 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期交通委員會第7次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
7 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
23 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
交通委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期交通委員會第7次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2025-04-17T08:30:16+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-04-17T12:17:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
03:46:44 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/f826c2e4afc302dde79a2056330309a2445fc32f41448fc04af80a8cb003b9bad03ec872774c52e55ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-04-17T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期交通委員會第7次全體委員會議（事由：邀請國家運輸安全調查委員會主任委員林信得列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。
【4月16日及17日二天一次會】） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:30:16 - 12:17:00 |
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谢谢观看,下次见! |
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1791.206 |
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1819.831 |
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好 我們大家請就座來 我們繼續開會好 現在我們介紹備席的官員首先我們介紹我們國家運輸應安會的主任委員寧信德副主任委員何慶生委員陳天士委員詹文華 |
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1822.025 |
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1835.508 |
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委員李延遠主任秘書姚承安執行長林佩達我們航空調查組組長劉東敏水路調查組組長蘇水渡 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
1844.521 |
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鐵道調查組組長吳吉春公路調查組組長曾崧仁曾仁崧運輸安全組組長鄭永安運輸工程組組長莊禮璋人事室廖軍會主任政風室 |
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1873.103 |
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1899.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
康主任熙平主計處主任孫淑信秘書處主任楊英文以上這些委員接下來我們就請我們應安會林信德主任委員來報告我們本日國家運 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
1903.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
1930.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
運輸安全調查委員會業務報告現在請應安會林主委進行報告主席各位委員各位女士各位先生大家好今天非常榮幸列席貴委員會向主席及各位委員報告應安會的業務重點進行各位委員不吝給予指教 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
1932.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
1951.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
本會主要的職長是重大運輸事故的調查調查範圍涵蓋航空水路鐵道公路其透過系統性的調查完整發掘可能的噪音及安全的風險提出改善建議以防止類似事故的再次發生相關的業務重點分數如下第一 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
1952.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
1978.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
重大運輸事故的調查業務那麼有關調查進度方面日本會108年的8月1號成立期間也就是3月30日為止運輸事故的立案調查共有306件已經有277件結案目前還有29件在根據調查中說明如下航空部份立案21件已經結案17件上有4件調查中共發布40項的安全改善協議 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
1980.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
1989.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
水務立案226件已經結案216件還有10件在調查中共發布301項的安全改善建議鐵道立案32件已結案28件還有4件在調查中共發布221項安全改善建議 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
2002.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
2030.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
公路立案27件 已經結案16件 上有11件調查中 共發布161項安全改善決議有關近期受關注的重大案件事故 報告如下關於113年10月31日玉洲啟航雜貨船也有案即擱淺的事故那麼這個是一級案 已經在去年的11月公布初步報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
2031.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
2054.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
依據今年的5月公佈事實資料報告12月份會完成整個最終的調查報告國務2114年的1月3日台鐵第125次志強號期堵站出軌以設備損害的事故案這個是二級案那麼依據今年的7月會發佈事實資料報告明年的1月完成最終的調查報告國務3 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
2058.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
2079.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
去年11月17日帶有公車在台北市忠孝東路往東鎮鄉街口追撞大都會公車的事故這個是一級案依據在今年的5月發布式的報告明年的5月完成最終的調查報告今年的1月25日一輛 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
2081.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
2109.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
也就是今年這個農曆春節假期的第一天一輛超氧小客車租運公司所屬的現代電動小客車在國道1號亞美休息站的閘道往南自創分割老後起火造成四個人死亡四個人受傷那麼這個案子是一級的案子預計今年七月發布事實追加報告那麼明年的七月完成最終的調查報告現在報告又重點 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
2110.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2114.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
第一提升航空水路鐵道及公路事故的較強能量 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
2115.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2142.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
為提升本會的調查能量本會藉由辦理研討會專題演講訓練及參與演習等方式持續強化事故的調查能量相關資料請參閱那麼在人因跟工程調查能量介入方面本年度持續發展認知人因調查訓練教材以及強化運劇內部生還因素相關資料的記錄與處理的能力二 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2144.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2151.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
為增進與國際運輸安全組織交流提升我國國際能見度本會積極參與國際運輸安全組織聯會及會議此外為經濟本會調查人員專業技術及期許運輸安全調查薪資與技術我們會派演參加國際運輸調查專業的訓練詳細的資料請參閱第三 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2170.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2184.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
積極爭取主辦事故調查國際論壇那麼今年會有兩個重要的記錄論壇第一個就是亞太事故調查工程論壇這個案子已經在今年的4月8號到10號已經在台北舉行完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2185.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2210.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
那麼有8個國家代表議會對整個輝煌紀錄器、索漢紀錄器、各式印製紀錄裝置及現場的精密糧食等工程技術議題進行深度的交流另外一個就是鐵道事故調查的國際論壇準備在今年的10月21日到24日在我國舉辦預計會有10國的代表來參加對鐵道事故的調查技術跟方我會進行交流跟討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2212.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2231.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
那麼有關提升運氣紀錄器的解讀能量方面本會已經完成113年度有關航空水路鐵道公路相關紀錄裝置的這個普查報告相關的解讀率如下航空的部分已經提升到100%水路的部分已經從92.73提升到98.42鐵道的紀錄100%公路的部分紀錄器也是解讀率達到100% |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2240.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2257.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
現在報告 醫術安全支援報告系統的運作狀況以及成果本會自108年改制基金總計接獲446支援報告 去年度接獲112件包括航空30件 水路19件 鐵道44件及公路19件 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2261.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2268.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
並篩選國內外具有分享價值的報告編算已發行8期資源報告的系統專刊但年度迄今已經接受28件的資源報告並規劃於4月份發行4期的專刊 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2275.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2283.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
有關藝術安全改善建議的一個追蹤本會迄今共發布1792項的藝術安全改善建議完成改善的有1691項完成率94.4%剩下101項各單位人在積極改善中其中列管超過三年的有 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2297.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2324.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
16項那麼都涉及它是法律規範的一個標準的修訂還有系統設施組織編織等面向的改善所以它需要時間比較長其中航空部門國防部空軍設定部有兩項水路部門交通部航港局跟港部公司各三項鐵道部門交通部鐵道局跟台鐵公司共計有9項那攻略部門交通部跟攻略局有兩項那麼今年的 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2326.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2347.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
3月11號10號的時候我們也開了市場的協調會那麼請我們分四個模組請各被建議的單位超過三年列管的這個案子請他們來開會那跟他研商到底有什麼困難後續有什麼可以協助他們的希望他們能夠技術完整改善 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2349.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2374.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
那麼第七有關運輸安全議題的研究我們這113年期每年4月份就會發布改善協議的評估報告分析各模組安全的議題那麼依照分析是113年年底事故統計跟改善協議的資料規範的議題如下航空的部分是超新級載具的安全主要事故的類別依序是飛行中失控 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2375.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2399.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
操控下撞擊地障與發動機故障或事象水路的部分最主要的議題是以水作業與管理船舶交通服務系統作業與管理三港運作管理海圖製作與發行遺傳作業與遺傳作業運作的安全在鐵塔的部分是台鐵的組織跟管理正線火災事故與皮膠道的安全管理 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2400.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2428.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
公路的部分是遊覽車跟公路汽車客運業行車的安全危險品運送的安全大陸設計養護及具先進駕駛輔助系統也就是一般所謂的ADAS車輛跟計程車的行車安全等等最後有關執行科技計畫部分我們這去年開始就已經有開始為期四年的所謂建立我國新型運氣事故調查技術與安全研究計畫那麼今天是第二年 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2430.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2455.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
最主要是三大的研究主軸啊的主要成果有如下 關於盤點先進運具的國際安全標準及事故調查的法規 關二執行大車動態模擬以車架撞擊測試以及港區流暢模擬研究 關三建置駕駛員生理行為量測分析系統並優化人因訓練課程先來報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2459.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2471.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
大院委員關切的議題執行情形第一有關重大運輸事故範圍的修正那麼這個已經在今年的A28會前交通部共同發布了第二有關辦理先進駕駛輔助系統及電動車輛制調查 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2474.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2502.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
我們今年有一個調查案已經結案另外有個新案已經立案在調查那麼結案的案子是在前年11月30日有立案調查自用小客車在國道1號北上大亞路段發生追撞攻城仿撞車的事故那麼這個在去年的11月29號已經公布調查報告調查報告中提出車輛安全的審驗以及交通管制設施等改善設施以避免類似事情再發生那麼新的兩案呢第一個案子就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2503.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2510.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
去年6月6號電動小赫車是國道1號虎尾路段往南自創護欄然後墜落在路面起火燃燒 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2511.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2538.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
另外一個就是也就是剛剛提到的今年春節的第一天電動小客車國道要亞美休息站砸到往南自撞後起火的這個事故那麼我們這兩個案子我們集體調動人力希望能夠變成一個標竿的案子所以我們預計第一個案子會在今年的2月發布事實資料報告那第二個案子在今年的7月發布事實資料報告那我們希望能夠儘早來公布最終的調查報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2539.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2542.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
那麼有關調查案子暫期通過的改善 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2544.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2572.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
我們本會成立之後水路案件因為遺傳的事故超過預期那各調查模組人力又分成兩階段譬如說我們在110年之前很多事故都發生但是我們的人力的補足一直到110年到年尾的時候才補足所以我們的人力一方面要新進人員又要訓練又要制定法規要做標準作為程序等等所以我們人力當時沒有辦法 cover所以事實上會有展期的沒有錯可是呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2573.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2597.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
可是自110年到去年為止所有的暫期案件幾乎都已經回到正常譬如說水路從52件下降到0件鐵道的部分從5件下降到0件航空從4件掉到0件公路從1件下降所以我們目前為止我們暫期的案子幾乎是沒有了這是我們的成效最後來包括我們一級市政的行銷 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2598.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2611.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
的績效我們希望能夠繼續強化重大運輸事故的調查機制以提升運輸的安全第二深化國際合作提升運輸安全能見度第三透過專業訓練強化事故調查與數據分析的能力 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2614.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2643.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
所有結議本會將秉持獨立公正專業的精神透過強化事故調查機制深化國際合作及推動專業訓練有效提升藝術安全降低重大藝術事故發生率並採取積極措施來避免事故的發生確保我國藝術安全隨著科技進步與時並進感謝委員波榮聆聽敬請各位委員對本會也支持共同為提升我國海陸空藝術安全執行努力報告完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2645.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2657.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
好 謝謝我們林主委現在我們進行詢問我來補充介紹一下我們委員會非常認真的洪孟楷委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2661.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2688 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
好 現在進行詢答先宣告以下事項執行答詢時間出席委員6加2分鐘列席委員4加1分鐘委員花園登記的時間10點30分截止各委員如果有提案請以10點以前提出以便我們議事人員的彙整 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2689.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2713.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
暫定10點30分休息10分鐘中午言則不休息現在請登記第一位的洪孟楷委員執行好 主席謝謝 麻煩請我們林主委好 林主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2719.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2740.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
好 主委好 主委本席剛剛聆聽了您的這個業務報告其中針對本席過去一直也很關注的就是AIDAS自動駕駛輔助系統你們也針對這個部分有做事故調查報告本席也把它給看完了那你的結論其實還是不脫離第一是有所謂的人為因素 對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2740.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2765.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
那第二就說在這個撞擊的所謂的這個工程車的一個部分其實可能ADAS的這個系統有不管是什麼樣的系統它有一些是沒有辦法偵測到說緩步的工程車的狀況是不是這樣子對 對 回答對不起對不起我剛剛在看 對不起沒關係 來 主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2768.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2797.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
是嗎對啊好那其中人為的因素的部分我們要怎麼樣降低我想這應該是我們大家共同也來努力的地方是在ADAS自動駕駛輔助系統其實重點是要幫助駕駛可以某種程度上減輕駕駛的負擔但是絕對不是替代駕駛對不對沒有錯好在2021年其實在自動輔助系統出來之後就已經有在網路上有所謂的這個叫自駕神器我不知道主委有沒有聽過 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2799.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2826.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
有嘛就是說自動下駛因為我們要防止說人為不要去雙手解放開所以說他就是要求說你手一定要在方向盤上但是這個上有政策下有對策啊所以說就有人就是賣所謂的這個防撞神器就是配重盤在方向盤上模擬手放在那上面那2022年2023年也都有相關報導那但是到目前為止 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2827.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2854.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
主委知道這樣的一個神器可以在哪裡買得到嗎我是不知道因為你沒有開自動駕駛車網路上有嘛對啊大家同仁也都清楚是不是因為本席查了一下到目前為止隨便查你的隨便查你的這個關鍵字還不用太多洋洋灑灑 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2856.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2882.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
都是啊我就不講哪個廠牌啊但是它的價格從多少錢從329塊一直到就差不多300多塊它就是模擬一個沙包放在那個方向盤上那我有看到交通部也有注意速發部也有注意所以說有發函給在去年年底的時候有發函給一些比較大的拍賣場拍賣賣場 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2884.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2901.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
警告說這有可能會造成這所謂的道教條例但是還是沒有辦法完全的根基啊而且本席我也沒有開自動自動駕駛車啊我也沒有開電動車啊但是我隨便查一下這樣的一個部分就已經有看到300多塊 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2902.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2919.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
那如果說我們做出來的報告是告訴人講是說人為的因素佔很大宗ADAS你不能完全信任你還是要專注在這個價值上那這樣子的一個自駕神器配重神器就跟我們的政策背道而馳啊主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2922.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2947.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
台灣還沒有達到百分之百自家工人的系統他們都是屬於先進價值輔助系統自從上次戴雅路端那個案子公布之後我們有去訪查高工局甚至工路局他們在各個主要道路的高速公路那個顯示板他們都會警告說 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2948.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
2975.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
進入茶大的時候在某些特殊狀況的時候請勿開啟先進駕駛因為他認為他有他的局限性是主委現在就是現實狀況跟我們實際狀況不同嘛我們不能只是學術研究我現在講的是說我另外再找到另外一個拍賣他從700多塊到1000多塊不等就可以替代騙電腦你有在駕駛那這樣子的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
2976.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
3003.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
運安會已經做出報告也告訴大家說人為的因素占大宗這是你的結論嘛對那這樣子是不是能夠運安會你找到問題協同網路主管機關也有觸發部協同交通部協同經濟部至少讓這樣子的因為這個東西很難界定它是否違法但是它確實會造成道路上非常嚴重的交通安全 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
3004.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
3026.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
那既然你運安會已經做出了報告也證實是說A大使不能完全的信任那能不能有比較明確告訴我們的駕駛朋友不要使用這樣的一個工具有可能害人害己方便久思久思但是只要有一次不方便那就是天人永隔可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
3027.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
3045.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
我認為這個是可行的我們會把這個資訊納入下一次我們在有關電動車A大使調查的過程裡面我們特別建議的是本席要求的是應該是要找交通部應該是要找速發部共同來沒有錯沒有錯我們會協調交通部跟交通部說你這個有關未來的這個檢驗好多久時間可以來做這樣的一個處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
3050.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
3072.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
不要讓民眾那麼方便使用好像這個東西是變成是我們沒有鼓勵啊我們甚至要求說不應該要出現這樣的東西啊因為它跟我們的設計是背道而馳的啊是 我們來協調交通部 塑化部 經濟部看有關這個所謂自駕自駕車跟A-DOS這個它是還是有區隔的啦好 所以因為我還有其他議題一個月內我們來溝通協調可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
3075.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
3090.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
我們來協助交通部看看不是協助我們跟他講你們找交通部找速發部找經濟部找相關部會來溝通這樣的一個部分好嗎一個月內那如果說後續的資料再請提供給本席那再來第二個 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
3091.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
3114.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
主委現在我們看到說這個隨身電源啊很多航空公司我們國內的航空都禁止對不對因為他有可能有自然的狀況但是隨身電源大家比較能夠理解可是現在還有一些情況我想這也是從我們的飛安自願報告系統裡面這今年2月找出來的一個自動自願報告系統您看一下他說 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
3116.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
3135.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
藍牙耳機因為現在我們有太多東西都是所謂的這個有離電池藍牙耳機也是一個這個是2月20號的時候有人反映說做航空公司的時候他藍牙耳機掉到座位裡面因為考量藍牙耳機有離電池沒有取出來會對飛航造成安全危險他可能卡在那邊 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
3137.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3148.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
不小心或是未來有可能有自然的風險導致派遣員工等等拆除座椅拿出耳機而造成航班的延誤您知道這個狀況嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3150.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3175.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
對 我有聽說 但是我覺得這個實際上是這個上個宗旨講對越來越多的土花作花我會把這個訊息再跟他確認本席現在要講 你們 您看一下你的處理結果是未來發生類似事情優先通報並且用相關的辦法 磁吸棒 磁加物等來取出耳機嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3176.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3204.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
那不是只是針對這個因為您剛剛講到上有政策沒有錯就是現在有越來越多我們國人使用或是說全世界的先進產品越來越多是有離電池那掛一漏萬的情況下是不是應該我們要超前部署就是說針對這個部分有一視同仁的要求跟標準或是說參考其他國家的案例該怎麼樣的處理我們不可能禁止國人或是不可能禁止全世界人類不用藍牙耳機 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3205.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3210.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
那有這樣的狀況要怎麼樣處理是不是應該要訂出一個標準跟方法 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3211.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3239.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
我們會在揮揚安全事件調查案子裡面我們把這個因素考慮裡面跟民產局再協調請他們要特別注意這個把他拉進去或者是說是不是之後可能要求我們機場公司還是相關單位可能因為針對這個離電池藍芽耳機它可能它的特性是有你看磁吸棒它可能裡面是有磁鐵或者是說有金屬相關所以採取磁吸棒比較容易把卡在 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3241.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3267.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
隙縫裡面的這些物品給取出來是不是而不是發生問題之後找不到工具對 這個是很好的一個意見我會同樣轉給美鳳姐前面跟航空公司在討論的時候這個也是屬於其中的一個改善的方式好 因為現在我們看到就是說有自然的一個狀況嘛 是那甚至我們這個月還有看到高鐵或台鐵也有隨身電源自然的狀況當然 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3268.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3287.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
路上的交通工具我也查了各全國都目前是沒有禁止路上交通工具使用但是宣導的部分要告訴國人是說離電池他如果說使用壽命太久可能會有相關的運輸風險這可能也是未來我們要考量的狀況最後講到電池啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3288.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3308.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
為什麼會這樣提就是因為最近也有一個議題我想我也在這邊提出來跟主委這邊來就教主委兩天前有平面媒體報導非法改裝露營車的問題我不知道你有沒有注意到其實最主要是台灣現在因為疫情過後很多的民眾也都認為是說露營是一個風潮 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3309.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3337.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
那所以說就會購買露營車但是購買車輛去改裝露營車可是台灣現在的道路相關法規不管是交通部不管是我們其他單位其實對於露營車的規範沒有那麼的明確那其中衍生一個很大的問題是很多人會去做這個露營車的一個改裝但是因為沒有改裝法規所以就變成是他會先送車體給車安中心 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3342.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3363.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
這個先去驗車 驗車完畢之後再去做改裝那改裝民間改裝廠他可能還會有增加什麼太陽光電板或者說這個增加這個便宜的電瓶而導致充電時候行走時候起火時有所聞那這些狀況其實無形當中也都會增加在道路上的一個安全風險 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3365.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3388.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
確實沒有錯 我會提醒交通主管機關來注意這一點 確實沒有錯主委 因為這個部分現在還沒有發生 其實我覺得很好的情況是運安會如果我們每一次都可以針對這些事情來去做超前的討論我本席是期待的 因為代表沒有事情發生我們都是在討論未來有可能的風險 我們來降低風險 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3390.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3416.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
所以現在露營車的狀況前幾天大篇幅的報導那有講到是說希望有合格合法的改裝規範規劃到底怎麼樣的改裝是符合我們的標準符合我們的需求那以及可以讓真的使用露營車的人合法安心上路這一點部分運安會可以跟交通部來做怎麼樣的一個努力 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3417.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3444.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
我們可以把它變成一個議題式的案子來做分析跟交通部來合作好那這個議題我們什麼時候可以啟動因為這個不好意思這不是我們主管但是我要跟交通部協調說有這個議題你們是不是只派公路局或是哪個單位來對這個案子來跟我們做我們有一個運輸安全組我們跟他看看有沒有這個議題試試看怎麼樣來研究這個好那我也拜託主委那是不是就是一個月內 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3444.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3469.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
跟交通部內針對這個議題來去做溝通是沒問題好感謝謝謝委員好謝謝我們洪孟凱委員好接下來再請第二位林國成召委發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3481.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3502.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
好 謝謝主席我要請林主委請林信德主委何副主委請何慶生副主委陳委員 張委員 李委員還有姚主任秘書 林執行長 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3505.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3530.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
陳天志委員 張文煥委員 李延年委員姚承安主任秘書 林佩達執行長 請好 主委我一向對我們貴單位我非常支持但是我會非常嚴謹的監督我非常在乎的 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3532.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3560.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
就是領導團結的問題所以為什麼我也請三位委員副主委還有執行長還有主任秘書這一整個應安會裡面主導就是主委但是撫蔽的就是在座的幾位領導人所以我必須要跟主委還有在座幾位的重要幹部 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3562.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3582.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
一定要提醒一句話團結就是力量所以我請幾位上來主要沒惡意而是呼籲要團結但是我必須要提醒一件事情我們這個單位 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3585.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3599.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
是一個行政專業單位跟一般行政不一樣喔你們是專業單位喔為什麼你們的前嫌就是國家運輸安全調查委員會為什麼要掛國家 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3601.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3629.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
是超越行政是超越任何一個部會而是什麼只要有國家兩制通常就是獨立行使單位所以我不希望你有政治力的介入這點我想主委你有什麼看法我來快兩年我都沒有感覺有政治力的介入而且是獨立專業的好 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3632.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3650.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
我本委員會我每一次在執行到處聽到就是我們不讓你解凍請問主委我們應安會解凍的東西送到立法院來了沒有我們已經準備好那行政院他會統籌辦理啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3652.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3677.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
是統籌辦理 因為我也知道啦行政院不要你們個別送嘛要統一才送嘛實體下很多部會首長就跟我講他們也想要送啊過去傳統的東西只要委員會通過了以後大概就沒有問題啊當然因為這次的審查預算 我承認 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3679.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3702.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
就殺到你們要害嘛 一個就是特資會 一個就是業務會嘛其實特資會是對你們傷的最嚴重但是 這叫做監督啊 要提醒大家不是你們沒有錢就不能做事啊公務人員本來就是這樣啊 不是嗎 主委所以 我還是要呼籲 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3703.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3717.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
應安會該解凍的盡快解凍你送來我身為那個召委我都願意叫你們送的那我就感覺到很奇怪我們交通 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3718.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3736 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
委員會裡面所有人我都呼籲他趕快送到現在 召委拜託你們送全世界找不到這樣欸你們為什麼一天到晚就是一定要什麼統一啊或什麼這個叫做什麼 政治力的介入 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3739.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3748.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
這個立法院要你們解凍你們不解凍你們就只有一句話當初你們要我們解凍為什麼要當初要幫我們凍其實這本來就審查預算裡面的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3756.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3781.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
方法這解凍的問題就是你把問題說清楚講明白那就可以解凍就可以使用啊沒有3啊你們現在都混搖不清啊解凍跟3億算是不一樣的所以主委我為什麼要特別去提你不要有政治力的介入這個是我要呼籲你當然啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3782.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3788.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
你這個單位雖然小單位但是權力之大可是你們都沒有應用 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3790.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3812.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
該調查的還是要調查所以主委不要跟他們這跟大罷免無關啊該送的還是要送這是我以重心長特別啊給主委一個建議還有在台上的重要幹部你們不要以為你們是副主委就無權利你們不要以為你們是委員你們就無權利不是的 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3813.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3826.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
應該要給主委適當的方式替他們分憂解勞這是最主要的一個問題不是嗎所以我還是希望啦主委解凍的問題盡快 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3829.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3847.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
獨立單位有獨立單位的形式這個你們特別要去爭取啦好不好好來另外我還是要談啦主委我們的缺額在擴大人才流失是非常頭痛的 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3847.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3874.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
因為這個單位啊我講快一點沒有這個基本概念是無華來這個單位的啦你這個不是一般公務人員隨隨便便調來那最起碼的話一定要有他的專業嘛不是航空專長就是公路啊或者車禍有一些問題所以 主委為什麼現在切而擴大到底人補進來了沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3876.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3887.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
我們的缺額就是正常的人員流動像到目前為止近三年我們的人員流動有進有出大概是目前淨流出大概三個人 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3888.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3903.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
還好啊還好是但是在我看來一點都不好對不對人眼流動會有流電會有流動因為你這個單位流動一個人你就要未以籌謀因為你們是專業一個單位 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3905.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
3924.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
你們這個人才是不好找的啦所以為什麼我把請在座幾位上來就是撫蔽你之外還有一點肯定你們這些都是專業在我們底下這些組長也都是專業的哪一個不是專業的 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
3925.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
3949.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
所以我還是要你不要把它當成這個流動力的問題就是你們業務的問題要特別去注意還有一點就是你們現在很奇怪你們提出來的建議跟你們提出來的這些改進措施來 主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
3950.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
3978.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
那為什麼你們都不理你們 為什麼沒有啊 我們我們這個改善協議的完成率越來越高啊 而且這個被促進的單位他們如果有困難我們有幾個機制 譬如說我們每三個月就會有一個即協調會議那每半年還會有一個檢討會議那今年的3月11號、12號我們還特別加開市場會議好 那我請問一下台鐵為什麼你們就政這麼多項完成率會這麼低 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
3979.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
4008.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
因為他需要很多時間對嘛所以我跟你講這個只要行政院長我坦白講啦你這個單位行政院長如果不支持你當然但是留步話嘛所以這些牽涉到安全的問題拜託主委要去爭取該監督的還是要監督該追蹤的還是要監督所以在這個部分我還是建議你們要提出來除了除了 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
4009.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
4038.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
建議改善之外你們根本就沒有監督機制嘛所以我建議我們在座幾位回去稍微研究一下我雖然我雖然是提出改進但是我後面有氣無力啊我沒有法的依據去追蹤去要求他改進啊處處都要所屬單位長官去督促這個叫做間接的監督這個效力不好的 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
4039.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
4054.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
要我們應安會有直接監督的力道所以我建議這個部分該修法的該修辦法或者該修法去把它放進去的這個是要特別這個特別我建議啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
4055.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
4072.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
那最後我還是期待啦流動力的問題還有跟這些政治力的結合問題我還是希望主委最後我還是呼籲團結就是力量雖然我們是小單位但是我們的責任重大 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
4073.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
4095.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
責任重大所以最後我給你建議的就是說你如果覺得後續監督改進的力道不足就要修改法令去把它放進去這樣的話可能在整個行政機關的效益會更好這樣的話也會達到我們應安會的一切 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
4096.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
4107.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
保護所有的這些交通安全是有所幫助的主委這點我給你建議我希望你參考一下好不好好謝謝好接下來我們李崑澤委員執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
4131.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
4135.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
謝謝主席 請一下林主委好 應安會林主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
4139.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4168.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
委員好 運安會是在2019年成立也即將要進入第六年了當初我們在推動運安會的一個成立從非安會提升為運安會最主要是希望能夠提升事故調查的量能也能夠提出改善的建議最重要是監督改善的一個落實 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4169.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4192.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
那在相關的這樣的一個事故的發生調查的過程當然也累積了非常多的資料那這些資料不管是事故發生的資料或者是改善的相關的建議它都是日後我們改善交通安全的一個最重要的基礎資料這樣的一個基礎資料我們還是發現它有幾個問題第一個它難以查詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4199.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4218.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
第二他是沒有進行了風險的一個因素的一個統整另外就是對於進一步資料的分析這個部分沒有落實來主委簡單說明一下我們應安會的這樣的一個基礎資料目前是不是有這樣的一個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4220.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4234.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
謝謝委員的指導,事實上我們才112年10月份開始,就對整個事務調查常用統計圖表,我們已經有增加這個功能。那麼目前,目前藝術環節改善建議的這個頁面,我們電腦的頁面可以選定相關條件,關鍵是就可以去查。 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4239.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4258.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
那我現在正在研議委員剛剛提到的動態統計儀錶板我們今年年底就要進製完成好這個目前的進度是如何這個建制這個統計的儀錶板這個在過去我們已經提出很多次的要求啊對對來趕快來說明啊什麼時候進入的那委員你好 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4260.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4287.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
那我們大概規劃分兩年來建置那第一年像今年我們會把整個感染建議的統計數字的那個儀表板建好那明年的話就會真的委員所提的這些安全風險包括安全議題的部分也把它納入這個網站上面幫助對 當然這個儀表板要納入風險的樣態分析跟政策建議的這個追蹤這個是這個儀表板最重要的功能目前你們的規劃是如何 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4288.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4310.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
對我們就是其實我們會今年已經有做先期的作業像我們在委員要求我們每年頒布的這個感染建議的評估報告我們已經把這個風險分析的安全議題納入了那這個是前期的作業那因為這個前期作業完之後那才會把它納到這個網頁上呈現那這兩年我們預計明年應該可以是完成好 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4310.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4331.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
那接下來我們運安會一個重要的工作除了這個儀表板的建置我想數據跟資訊的公開是下一步的關鍵那交通安全不只是運安會的一個重要的職責以及交通部重要的工作當然有很多的學者或者是民間我認為這個數據跟資訊應該要公開就是說我們這個數據儀表板 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4337.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4361.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
應該要作為開放式的一個交通安全的一個資料庫那我們針對各類事故的樣態及風險分析還有系統性的風險樣態的這個分析我們要開放這個API或是資料的查詢平台讓民間跟學術研究可以使用來 主委說明一下應該是包括在裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4362.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4389.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
開放API這個讓民間學術能夠進一階這個是應該在裡面的這個是我們要努力推動的工作當然我們對於相關的這些基本的一個基礎的統計還有分析的系統最主要就是要統計要分析當然最重要就是改善那我們這個儀表板的建設希望能夠依照我們的一個要求要去落實 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4390.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4403.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
另外我要跟主委來討論一下就是有關於我們的年度運輸安全改善的建議評估報告他有提出相關的改善建議的這個結案率 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4405.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4428.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
那我們看到飛航事故前年的改善的建議結案率98.6那今年提升到99.5那公路事故83.5前年那今年已經提升到87那鐵道的事故有83.3前年結案率那今年也提升到89.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4431.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4448.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
那水路事故呢 水路事故73.4啊 雖然略有提升但是還是有兩層啊 這個未結案 那這個部分啊來主委說明一下 為什麼還是水路事故這個部分還是有兩層沒有結案呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4450.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4465.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
那個水路組因為他有時候他是有季節性也不能講季節性有時候在某一段時間他案子特別多的時候就感覺上他會擠在一起那人力是固定的這個理由不夠充實來水路組來說明嘛為什麼還要兩次 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4467.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4486.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
他的水路的事故主要是什麼?然後未結案的這個結案率為什麼會還有兩成的差距?有關於這部分最主要是之前發生有很多案子都是涉以這個飲水作為的修訂尤其最主要是飲水法 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4486.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4505.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
還有這個就是VTS有關於這個船舶標示條例那這樣的一個航路標示條例那這個修法的過程比較冗長尤其是飲水法總共有40條大概已經要修了三十幾條所以這一部分呢航港局已經在努力的在做那我們也積極的在跟他們溝通 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4506.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4518.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
這個必須要提升他的結案率這個是建議改善的結案率這是非常重要的一個關鍵點另外我來提醒一下雲南匯就是在2020年的10月 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4523.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4528.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
其實我就曾經針對無人車電動車這些新興的載具它的運輸安全的問題執行過運安會當然我們知道電動車的快速增加它當然也會帶來相關的交通風險 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4540.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4566.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
當然電動私人載具的快速增加是要為了達成國家的一個淨零的目標那科音業其實也要全面的電動化這是一個趨勢嘛但是它也帶來另外一種風險因為電動車的物理特性它的電動車如果發生事故其實我們在新聞已經看過很多了它起火燃燒的溫度還有它持續的時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4567.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4596.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
比傳統的油車還要久那滅火的方式也有所限制這都是在發展電動車的過程裡面社會所注意到的相關的風險那當然我知道運安會也在起手調查有兩起的電動車的事故那運安會其實也參與過國際電動車的相關的安全會議那目前我國電動車的安全的規範 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4598.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4619.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
我要請教運安會有沒有相關應該改善的建議來說明一下這一點我們就比較力不從心因為事實上為了調查電動車的事故我們也有加長訓練譬如說我們派人出國到美國警察大學或是理達警察大學他們有關電動車電池向外面的那種燃燒怎麼鋪面還有過照什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4621.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4648.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
那國內消防署他們也有有關電動車起火什麼我們也去參與他們的這個有關滅火訓練等等那事實上電動車三大部分嘛電池電控電池電動電池還有那個它裡面的安全控制工程部分但是現在台灣有關電池譬如說電動車起火看起來明明是撲滅啦它過一陣子的時候它又起火燃燒 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4650.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4670.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
這個不是我們的主委我們現在提到電動車這些相關的載具它真的是一個敬禮目標的一個交通運輸工具的趨勢那當然我們現在都知道電動大巴士也在政府的補助以及推動之下也在快速的成長 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4671.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4685.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
那電動大巴士的如果說以這樣電動車的物理特性以及相關它滅火的相關的限制或者是它起火的這種特性如果說我們的運安會主委在這邊說我們這個沒有辦法沒有基礎 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4689.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4709.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
這個會讓民眾憂心如果電動大巴士發生重大的交通意外事故第一個我們首先我們的調查量能就沒有第二個我們沒有無從相關的建議改善這個是一個很大的缺陷這個主委要特別去針對今年針對這種電動車相關的這種事故他的調查量能 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4715.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4719.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
以及相關的法規我們必須要去進行檢討我們車輛電池安全規格 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4723.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4745.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
還有消防交通等等的法規是不是要去增訂增修這個都要去討論啊以及事故發生時候的處理流程是怎樣來主委說明一下你們現在有沒有概念如果電動大巴士發生這種起火或者是重大的交通事故你們處理的流程是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4747.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4763.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
其實是這樣子啦這個就我剛剛講的電動車三大部分嘛一個是電機一個是電池一個是控制嘛那麼電池的部分目前事實上你看在國外的新聞也有常常看到就是說不管是 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4765.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4792.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
電動車在地下室電動車或者是電動的大巴士或什麼它起火燃燒現在全世界都在研究這個到底電池它到底有哪些的特性它燃燒之後怎麼撲滅它那因為大家會調查是說它已經發送完之後我們去調查但是沒有錯委員講的沒有錯我們也要知道說當時是為什麼會燃燒或什麼這個要加緊相關的因應主委你今天的說法會讓社會大眾 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4795.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4821.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
會產生疑慮我們對於電動大巴士以及相關的電動車相關的事故的調查到目前的基礎非常的薄弱幾乎等於零這個會讓民眾來擔憂我們應安會應該要針對這些新興的載具加速的因應其實我記得我在質詢之後好幾年前大概五年前 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4821.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4842.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
大概質詢這個相關的電動車新興載具的議題那運安會其實有去做進行調查範圍的一個修訂那這個運安會在這個過程裡面有沒有進行相關的研究這個進度會不會太慢 來說明一下 簡單說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4844.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4872.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
我們還在蒐集資料中中啦現在還是在蒐集資料進度太慢 民眾擔憂我們會加快腳步這個會讓社會大眾針對這樣的一個新興載具它電動大巴等等的這樣一個電動車無人車相關的這個交通事故的調查量能啊竟然是幾乎等於0這個我們非常的擔憂你是沒有啦 就是已經開始在動了啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4873.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4898.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
已經開始在動了這個答案真的是民眾會非常生氣我們要加緊我們的相關的這個一個調查的量以及相關的預防措施現在就要去啟動它相關的預防機制以及研究好不好是謝謝委員謝謝好謝謝我們李坤哲委員請魯明哲委員執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4910.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
4913.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
謝謝主席 又請我們議員會 林主委好 林主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
4918.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
4945.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
好 林國偉好那我接著這個剛剛我們李昆哲委員談到的電動車那電動車事實上確實我想在世界各地都快速成長那在台灣也呈現這個現象我們看過去10年從全台灣那一年只有664輛的電動當然還混合先講清楚那這個部分包括油電車那到了我們今年兩個月前 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
4946.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
4973.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
2月份2025年2月份已經到達11萬4千多輛的電動車在台灣我們登記如果以這個幅度來講的話是成長10年成長170倍他成長的一個幅度確實是非常非常大請教一下我特別有看到我們在去年前年我記得在林口有一個影星叫是林志穎嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
4975.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
4996.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
發生電動車什麼樣事故的時候那時候我不知道是不是林主委啦我都不清楚我還沒到任還沒有齁那時候我們就好多人委員跟那個主委啊他討論討論去啊最後我記得沒錯那時候結論說抱歉這四人的載具齁跟我們運安會基本上的原則是不介入 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
4998.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
5021.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
那到了你今年到1月剛剛講發生那個楊梅交流道那個蠻重大的事故起火造成四死四傷的一個慘劇之後所以我們看到在2月份當然謝謝你們啦我認為說應安會慢了真的是慢了那到今天2月8號我們也看到你們當然這個來修改了公告修訂了 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
5023.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
5051.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
這個運輸事故 重大運輸事故範圍將電動車電動車輛只要具先進的ADAS的車輛也納入你們一個調查的範圍讓過去說好像完全不行的現在有點普了 也展開了調查那現在目前你們對於這種電動車的事故調查大概有多少起就剛剛報告的有現在兩件兩件在調查中嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
5052.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
5072.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
好那我們也預告啦因為現在正好關稅大戰那如果台灣要用零關稅去談進口汽車非常可能會是一個被降低的這個的部分那未來在國外有很多相對的便宜的各式車輛都會進來會造成台灣的一個車輛 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
5075.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
5103.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
各種的一個情況可能改變我認為電動車電動車他這個趨勢是會更快速的一個成長你剛剛講的我們電動車調查這個進度我也去看了一下去年的6月份跟今年的1月25號陽梅休息站這個的部分都有造成了死傷尤其在陽梅交叉道這個部分全國極度關注因為覺得太悲慘了裡面有非常多的 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
5104.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
5112.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
可愛的小朋友嘛那當然我們看了有到去年6月6號這一件你也在調查中嘛然後當然1月25號 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
5114.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
5141.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
對你們來說應該發生時間還需要去累積更多的一個證據我就請問一下齁能不能大概說一下你們大概有SOP調查的整個程序大約是要多久你們自己要求自己的我們調查是分成五大階段來是現場作證階段嘛然後這個事實資料報告階段然後事實分析還有審查等等 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
5142.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
5158.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
那這個案子目前是屬於這個事實資料發布之後的階段進入這個分析的階段大概要5個月嘛最主要調查的重點是這樣子啦那去年6月6號的呢去年6月6號這個來已經發布事實資料報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
5169.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
5177.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
發布了 今天早上發布了結果昨天才還沒有好啦好啦我覺得 人民對於當時 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
5180.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
5201.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
我們應該會成立的期待我覺得莫忘初衷啦第一個我們覺得這麼多複雜的訊息這樣的一個專業的交通事故我們希望有一個單位能夠在相對有效率的讓人民能夠知道有自治權益第二個呢能夠提供一個正確的一個訊息 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
5202.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
5219.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
第三個是運安會這個專業的單位提供了重要的一個運輸事故訊息給相關單位之後能夠造成一個良性的循環它能夠改善到最後能夠避險的這個部分但我是覺得在很多的效率上 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
5221.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
5246.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
如果你是人力不夠 人力根本不夠有些的部分不成比例 譬如說水路啊什麼大家人力就不對稱那這個部分我是覺得你身為這個主管你必須要去自己去主張啊你看看啊 因為院外會的功能很重要嘛高工局他跟大家講他的調查的結果 他的說法113年6月6號那個事情是變換車道不當 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
5248.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5276.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
那是定案了嗎是決定了嗎然後1月25號因為很多記者媒體訪問這種公開的聲明也算是一種他的高工局這件事情認定的調查的一個說明他認為是車輛機械操作不當我說天啊你知道嗎這個事情不管是人為那是我自己操作不當球場可能不見得有利但如果是機械 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5277.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5296.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
或者SITEN自駕ADAS系統的一個故障或者相關的車輛的因素那他可能車商可以求償最後一個不好意思是你道路設計有問題啊因為陽梅這個部分就很多人在說嘛那就是你高空局或者你的平面道路你的主管單位有問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5297.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5319.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
大家在等這個報告其實我是覺得不光是一個結果第一個促成這個機構他到底是不是交通道路設計不當或者到底車輛有問題大家都在等你這個報告還是你認同現在關乎你所有的報告就是結果嗎一個是變換車道不當一個是車輛機械操作不當這是不是結果 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5320.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5343.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
高工局的改善措施或者是他的事故調查寫的措施只是他初步的看法他真正造勢的原因還是我剛剛報告我們還是從五階段裡面一個一個去抽絲剝繭嘛不一樣的他的報告有點等同我們的事實資料報告一樣但是我們還要進入分析還要進入去審查等等不太一樣啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5344.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5368.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
所以問題現在就有很多人氣啊甚至車禍的傷者 當事人啊甚至有一些比較關心的甚至有一些專家學者還在持續對這件事情完全不同的跟高官局不同的一個說法他在等待你嘛所以一個大家可信的公平正義的一個裁判所以我們也希望在速度稍微能夠快一點 好吧這兩個在 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5369.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5385.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
調查中那我們再說一下你調查已經結束了這個ADAS就是這種輔助或者所謂的那種自駕的一個輔助的一個系統這就不只電動車啦一般的車輛現在先進的車輛都有搭載這樣的一個功能那 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5387.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5404.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
在高速公路上面我們的工程緩撞車被追撞的事件還是真的是蠻多的蠻多的我們就以一個112年啊因為太近了你說你沒調查好嘛112年11月底發生在我們國道1號 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5406.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5427.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
中部的路段 工程緩撞車 遭小客車撞擊因為後面調查那小客車有開啟ADAS系統好啦 你們經過了一年啦在113年 去年的11月29號 你們可能規定是一年啦 也發布了 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5427.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5451.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
你們確實的一個調查運輸這個事故的調查報告就表示你們完成你們負責任完成了那這種報告呢也後面送交了交通部他有必須建議他改善的事項按照的歐洲委員會制定的相關的基準來做什麼樣的改善讓更完善那給高工局呢也跟他講說因為這發生在內側 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5453.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5465.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
高速公路內側的車道這邊的車道是超車車道你要特別的怎麼樣注意你有說強化移動性內側車道施工什麼管制布設方式我剛剛講最後期待 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5470.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5483.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
你們專業的訊息在座費了這麼多腦筋啊專家學者包括學界甚至學校大家提供一些意見你提出來了給交通部跟高工局那現在處理情況 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5486.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5509.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
還是狀態又改變 又是今天早上又改變了 主委 來你說一下像這個不是已讀不回啦 因為依照依照法律的規定 它有90天要恢復嘛那90天法律完之後 我們要還要報行政院 因為行政院還要辦廣考一次所以一般這個都是有一定的程序然後另外就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5510.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5522.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
他剛聽我同學講他有提意見但是那個意見不對他又重提啦他們有一點有一點有一點怎麼講還在掙扎是不是掙扎 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5525.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5544.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
所以我們把他退回他從體啦是這樣子啦不是引渡的啦我是覺得齁因為我跟你講民眾的一個期待不能這樣在政府這樣弄來弄去對民眾沒有意義民眾在罵的時候不好意思他絕對不光是罵政府某一個單位哪一個局哪一個組不可能罵 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5546.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5558.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
你們都不知道在搞什麼嘛你們按照你們的運輸事故調查法第27條第一項誠如你說的嘛你調查報告完成之後給相關機關90天之內就是我先講現在是139天 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5563.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5589.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
現在是139天遠遠超過了一個多月他們應該提出什麼呢他們應該這些單位要向行政院提出處理報告我是完全念條文啦處理報告那處理報告基本的精神就是針對你們提供專業意見可行的趕快做執行計畫嘛就像我們今天會編預算要執行計畫出來那如果不可行的有障礙的或者再跟你們回報因為這個必須複製你們所以在90天 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5593.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5611.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
顯然是沒有任何的一個狀況如果複資你們的部分你們還在等候回覆或者處理中嗎那你對於這種相關單位沒有辦法在法令的這個效能中來配合或達成改善你會不會自己也有點無奈那種感覺你可不可以說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5612.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5633.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
我們倒不是無奈啦,因為我們希望他提的計畫能夠更周圍一點,如果他提的這個不吞不養,不是他提的比較一種例行公事的話,我們覺得這個跟我們所當時的初衷是沒有達到的,所以我們就退回叫他重提,但是我們後面還有一個行政院管考的半年的管考的建議,還是會繼續追蹤下去啦。 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5634.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5645.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
現在交通部回了嗎?回復了嗎?交通部回復了沒有?都回復了嗎?那你這邊為什麼說等候回復? |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5650.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5679.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
你們這個狀態是什麼意思跟國人報告在高工局的部分他們已經有提出處理報告跟方向指引計畫了那目前的狀況是我們已經發函請他們重提第二次那他們的這個計畫內容那我們覺得還有一些改善的地方所以現在是在請他們重提第二次的過程那交通部呢那交通部的已經來了所以我們目前是在等高工局的今天早上嗎今天早上來啦因為我們會等高工局你們這個報告是哪個單位寫的是這樣嗎你這樣描述的過程是這樣嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5681.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5709.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
你知道嗎這個東西就簡單講一件事情我們講規規矩矩清清楚楚的這個球在誰手上 燙手三衣丟給誰了那總是你們自己要知道嘛現在你們這個訊息就說 抱歉你們還沒給我訊息你們這個報告就是這樣如果你們覺得像你剛剛講的完全狀態不應該在這裡我是跟主委建議一下譬如說以回復正在處理中嘛他就明明跟你回復啦對不對 初步的回復都可以嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5710.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5734.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
那最後跟主委建議一下我們希望你們的這個很多的一個專業的意見最後變成他的一個改善的計畫能夠整體在整個面上面能夠在掀起預防這個問題因為我們再看一下國道緩撞車被撞的事件AIDAS這不光是電車任何車輛有AIDAS系統的我們特別在看從 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5737.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5757.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
兩年多前到112年11月那時候本來有216件結果我們看到了有裝有ADAS的其中有開啟的有73件但是還是裝上去了那我們研究當時就有很多的報告希望怎麼改善結果我們再看一年半之後快兩年之後統計到114年3月總共累積的 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5761.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5790.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
持續增加而且有開啟的ADAS的幅度在從30%上到36%這是我剛剛在跟你提不管說你們我相信你們的專業啦你們給高工局的建議或是說給交通部的建議我希望能夠某一些能夠盡快落實從這個整個面向上面從實體的數據上面真的能夠逐步向好的一方發展我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5791.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5803.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
持續努力好不好對 這個也是我們希望他能做到的謝謝委員指導好 謝謝好 謝謝我們魯明哲委員在這裡我特別要跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5804.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
5821.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
提醒我們林組委跟所有列席的官員在答詢的當中資料要精準資料要精準不要委員提出問題然後明明是有來的來文跟補充要把它講清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
5822.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
5850.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
這樣不會產生官員跟立委執行當中的這些誤差矛盾這樣的話就失掉我們今天業務報告跟執行的功能好不好來 接下來我們請陳樹業委員執行謝謝主席 請主席邀請林主委好 林主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
5855.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
5873.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
各位早安本席在這邊也是要來關心這個電動車目前就是有關這個電動車的一個事故調查的部分那我們根據公路局的一個統計數字我們可以看到很明顯的從2018年一直到2024年這個電動車的一個登記數真的是非常明顯的一個攀升一直到去年底2024年 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
5882.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
5884.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
這個純電車的一個統計數字已經有達到96397這個量的這個數字那當然包含就是油電混合的話就是將近11萬的這樣子的一個登記數 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
5898.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
5924.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
所以也表示出就是說這個電動車的一個市場這個也蠻熱絡的也被接受度也蠻高的那當然就是說從這個電動車的一個使用的一個普遍性之後這個意外的事故當然就是會有看到一些案例陸續的一個發生那當然我們也很明顯的看到就是也剛剛我們那個盧委員也剛剛提到的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
5924.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
5947.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
之前的一個明星他的這個特斯拉事故著火起火之後就是引起了大家的一個注目從這一起的一個事故才引起大家在委員會有關心就是我們運安會對於這樣子的一個特斯拉的車輛這個意外事故的時候我們的調查 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
5948.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
5965.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
是不是有那個量能那當時當然這個都還沒有那個當時運安會是回覆說針對這個部分還沒有可能還沒有去這個啟動那在大家關心之後我想這幾年就是應該一兩年的時間運安會應該有陸續針對這樣子的一個個案應該有進行去關心 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
5972.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
5999.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
那目前就是說這樣子的案例比較少那應該比較明顯的就是最近比較重大的一個事故就是湖尾那個國道一號南下這個湖尾段還有我們今年一月份在陽明這個休息站的這兩起事故是引起社會大眾非常大的一個震驚跟注目那這兩起我們運安會是不是都已經有這個列案調查了 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
6001.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
6026.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
市主委現在重大運輸市公安委修正完之後只要是電動車的我們就不會用以前那種出來看個案現在都會調查全部會列入調查那麼電動車事實上最近幾個案子的歸納出來大部分電池安全是一個很重要的問題電池安全還有駕駛操作的程序之外也是我們調查的重點 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
6028.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
6048.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
駕駛的操作目前我們有列案調查的就是去年6月這一件跟今年1月這一件總共兩件那去年6月這一件已經報告已經公布了嗎去年6月的報告還沒公布 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
6049.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
6066.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
對 幾月會公佈?今年七月要公佈還是年底?今年年底今年年底要公佈目前還沒有公佈?還沒有那我看到有一份資料怎麼你們在今年二月就已經公佈了? |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
6066.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
6078.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
那是事實資料報告事實資料的報告事實資料報告就是說你就現況的蒐集的資料做報告那報告完之後要進入分析階段分析階段就經過還有一個專業小組審查會議檢視會滿繁雜的然後到最後才進入這個審查 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
6085.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
6110.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
是 好 那就是確定的一個事故的一個調查要到年底才會公布那目前因為我們也看到就是說主委也有表示就是說有關這個電動車的一個事故的調查我們會修訂就是運輸事故的調查法 是不是 是會修訂相關的一個法令 那目前這個法令的進度是如何 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
6111.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
6125.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
目前還在修法中啦 還被措施 但是沒有妨礙到我們因為因為作為事實範圍我們已經訂定了所以沒有妨礙到我們對金融商的調查所以這個法令跟我們的這個目前在進行中的兩個案子是不會 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
6126.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
6139.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
我們在進行當中不會因為有一些資料的取得沒有辦法取得需要透過修法去取得應該還不至於我們也希望電動車我想也是未來可能這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
6145.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
6168.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
成長的速度應該也是會持續的一個成長因為目前就是因應整個國際這種就是減冷減碳這樣的一個趨勢我想這種測量數還是會增加所以有關這類型的事故的調查我們也希望就是運動會這邊能夠有比較多的一個就是技術跟量能來 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
6169.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
6187.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
就是進行這一類的一個調查那另外我再請教就是說有關這一類因為我們這樣子的一個案例在國內也算是比較就是少所以我們不曉得說這一方面的案例我們會去國外做一個經驗的一個汲取跟交流嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
6190.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
6211.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
我們對這個預算算成我們也蠻傷腦筋的因為我們國外要去受訓的量能就會減少我們也開始在檢討他的優先先後管理的次序那麼人員的訓練確實也會縮短那尤其是國外你如果去開會我們因為我們運燙會 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
6213.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
6240.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
在國際間的這個指揮運輸安全調查這個community裡面我們算是能見度還蠻高的如果我們不能去的話那我們在國外相關重要年度會議裡面都會對一些法規既定的一個修改我們可能就沒有辦法在第一時間參與這個是蠻遺憾的是因為剛剛我們就是主委在做這個報告郵報報告的時候這是我看您的簡報 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
6242.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
6266.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
就是你們剛剛的簡報那你有提到就是預期的施政績效你也是分三個面向是三大區塊那其中一個深化國際合作提升我國運輸安全能見度這個是很大的一個比重對不對對那這樣子的話如果說我們在114年度的一個預算被刪掉了六成 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
6267.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
6282.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
剩下的這樣子的一個預算數你要如何去達到你預期的一個績效可能會打折扣啦打折扣對我想這樣子對我們整個就是預安會的一個運作可能會有很大的一個阻礙吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6283.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6311.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
然後會變成有時候我們要實體去參加會議我們沒有辦法出國的話就會跟對方講我們改成視訊或者是用什麼方式或縮短縮短時程或者是改變改變計畫的這個這個這個這個行程等等也也蠻困擾的是就是說對於這種經驗的交流當然就是說可以透過視訊這樣的一個變通的方式然後那我們也看到就是說在應該是 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6314.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6339.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
今年就是我們慾安會有受邀就是參與那個日本日航的就是羽田機場的這個非安事故的一個調查我們有受邀去做這樣子的一個參與跨國性的一個事故調查如果說像這樣子的話我們這種出國旅費被刪減的話恐怕這樣子的一個協助我們可能就使不上力了 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6339.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6368.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
就會排擠我們的預算會排擠會排擠就比較可惜是 所以這樣子的話對我們的運安會就是說整個運作真的是一個非常大的會有影響會有影響是 所以這個預算我覺得說運安會是一個非常專業的一個單位所以這個預算其實也跟相較其他的單位來看也不是非常龐大可是確實每一筆都是非常一個重要所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6369.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6397.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
對於這樣子的一個刪減數我們也是覺得非常的一個遺憾是我們單位的預算不多所以如果刪的那個比例雖然跟外單位比起來好像錢不多事實上比例還蠻高的比例高可是每一項經費都是都很珍貴每一項經費都很珍貴對你們來說是有非常那個重要謝謝委員的關心那刪了也跟東又不一樣根本毫無毫無希望了嘛刪減就是刪減掉了啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6398.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6422.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
謝謝委員 謝謝好 那你們就是要自己要加油 謝謝委員關心 謝謝好 謝謝好 謝謝陳樹業委員特別跟大會報告一下我們喜智捷委員喜智捷召委執行完我們就休息十分鐘那現在請何新淳委員執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6427.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6432.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
謝謝昭偉 我們請林主委好 請林主委主委好今天早上很多委員都在關心電動車的電池的問題那你們說正在調查中 因為有幾件事故已經出現那我就要問 接著也是電池的問題 行動電源 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6454.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6476.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
我們看到已經不管是國內來國內在酷寒飛往新加坡的時候他在112的1月11號有一個新聞通報新聞稿那確實呢行動電源一過熱起火機艙內煙霧瀰漫他發生了什麼行動電源起火那有沒有影響飛安 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6478.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6506.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
主委你認為有沒有影響飛安當然有影響飛安但是你們呢在你們根據你們有通報你們要通報你們之後事故調查了之後你們有回本案非屬重大運輸事故非本會調查範圍好我尊重在那一次酷航的這一個事件裡面沒有造成重大的運輸事故但是我覺得要跟主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6507.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6519.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
提醒飛機上的行動電源起火不是只有國內的這個酷航一個案子國際上的案例頻傳釜山航空在2025年的1月28號 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6522.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6551.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
造成整個飛機的前半段機艙燒毀你看看連機艙的頂部通通都燒毀那在2025的3月21號香港航空也是經傳行李架起火原來行李架上裡面行李裡面有行動電源他的這個行李架的上面的這個空間你看也是燒成這個樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6553.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6573.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
在下一頁我們雖然看到國際的規範裡面各航空公司在飛機上已經禁用行動電源但是我看到一件又一件的事故發生我就盤點了一下我們現在各個航空公司裡面雖然在航程當中 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6573.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6591.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
航班當中全程禁止使用跟充電行動電源但是放置的位置有沒有建議有沒有指引沒有中華航空只是建議還避免放在位置上方的行李櫃長榮航空沒有明確的規範 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6592.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6620.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
新宇航空只建議你要隨身攜帶並放置妥當也沒有規範要放在哪裡比較好台灣虎航也沒有明確規範華信航空建議不要將行動電源放置在座位上方的行李櫃利用航空請隨身攜帶也希望不要放在座椅上方的置物櫃放在哪裡是一個重點 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6621.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6650.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
行動電源呢之所以會常常在自然也好或者是在飛航的期間也好有沒有發生任何事故的可能性這個都是我們必須要放在心上也希望政府能夠有明確的指引告訴大家我們在坐飛機的時候不容許有一絲一絲絲的這個不安全性不容許有一絲絲的風險尤其在飛機上我想主委你同意我的說法吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6652.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6662.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
同意嗎同意同意這個我想這個越來越複雜那個越來越複雜民行局應該要找他們來靠要綠定清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6663.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6688.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
民航局說他們遵守國際規範啊那國際規範之外呢還是發生事故那我們有沒有更主動明確的去做一個安全指引我要告訴你喔主委你不要告訴我這不是你的事喔你現在一口就說那是民航局的事民航局有事沒事確實他也是他的業務主管他要做那你運安會的高度你們是獨立調查單位 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6690.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6712.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
4月13號在我們台灣的高鐵也發生了行動電源起火高鐵有通報嗎沒有通報沒有嘛沒有通報那很好很好的是什麼你知道嗎還好不幸中的萬幸是沒有發生什麼問題事故就是所謂的這個行李雖然著火冒煙車廂的這個煙霧的偵測被偵測到了 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6716.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6738.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
大響但是呢我們有這個旅客來協助滅火器有成功的滅火所以呢那列車長也第一時間有疏散那我相信第一個交通運具裡面的安全問題是屬於我們運安會可不可以做的我告訴你主委你在你的職長裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6740.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6755.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
運輸事故的趨勢分析運輸安全的改善建議之追蹤以及運輸安全的專案研究這個在你的運安會的執掌這個第二條規定的清清楚楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6756.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6774.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
那你越南會不能被動的有重大事故發生的時候我才要來調查我們國人更希望的是什麼當你注意到這些影響到運輸過程中的安全有這樣子系列性的不斷發生的事件的時候如果有這樣的趨勢 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6776.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
6791.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
那我們能不能主動的來做分析研究來提供一個安全指引主委可不可以謝謝委員你的意見跟我們的做法是一致的我到現在還沒看到啊我們現在是這樣子我們所有的調查案子我們會撈出它的一些議題式的 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
6792.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
6810.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
把他撈出來說這幾個案子有共同的系統性的問題那行動電源這個你說你有撈出來那行動電源你有立案來做一個分析研究嗎因為電源的火車它不是高鐵這個它不是屬於正線火災不是屬於重大運輸範圍裡面的應該要調查的範圍那好那你說高鐵不是好 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
6812.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
6841.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
不幸中的萬幸沒有人受傷沒有擴大事故那我現在意思喔從飛航當中的行動電源的起火到高鐵裡面的行動電源起火你這一系列的事故你剛剛說嘛你要撈事件嘛撈數據嘛那這樣一系列的這個行動電源的起火了那你認為運安會要不要主動的去做立案分析研析然後有什麼樣的安全指引 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
6842.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
6859.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
如果他進入我們運輸安全事務調查範圍內的時候就會去撈出來因為這幾個案子就是他有系統性的問題所以你現在跟我說的是我跟你講的這一系列的行動電源起火是跟你沒關係的 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
6860.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
6876.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
像高鐵這個它是屬於鐵路行車規則裡面飛航裡面咧飛行航空當中的行動電源的放置問題呢這也是如果它涉及有延燒然後造成設備損害造成航空機損害的時候我剛剛給你看了那麼多照片不就是了嗎對對對但是這個還有一個界線 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
6879.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
6899.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
什麼界限 藝人學運動會 獨立機關是比較高規格的這個呢 這個是一般的生活中的小事情所以跟你運動會沒有關係嗎他如果在課堂裡面他冒煙 可是他沒有燃燒啊主委 拜託你好不好你這樣子回答讓人家沒辦法接受欸 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
6903.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
6910.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
國人的安全難道會因為他只有冒煙沒有失火不是我是指是不是我們的立案是不是我們立案調查的範圍我是指這個不是說我們不關心我剛剛跟你講你的資料裡面不是只有立案調查你還有事故的趨勢的分析你還有安全改善建議你還可以有安全的專案研究 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
6926.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
6930.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
沒有錯這個也是我們關注的這個範圍沒有錯那我剛剛就要提醒你啊行動電源會起火會自燃已經不是只有飛機上的問題而已連在高鐵也可能出現這個問題那剛剛很多委員都在關心電動車的電池的問題那表示我們所有陸海空裡面所有的電動的運具裡面的電池的問題行動電源的問題會不會 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
6956.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
6972.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
造成我們的交通運具的運輸過程的危險那這樣子夠不夠可以成立一個專案來研究來告訴大家告訴國人說還有告訴所有的交通運具的所屬單位跟他們的從業人員我們碰到這些事情的時候該怎麼應應該怎麼處理該怎麼面對國人的安全是第一要緊的事 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
6981.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
6997.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
主委對不對對嘛那你剛剛一開始回答是什麼意思啊不是我剛剛的意思是說他是不是屬於立案範圍裡面但是這個案子確實是你的職長又不是只有立案範圍才要去調查才做調查而已 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
6999.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
7022.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
我們不能防範於未然嗎可以可以可以嘛是那我就告訴你已經一系列的事情都發生了行動電源電動車的電磁問題那你運安會可不可以主動的立案來做研究分析來給予安全指引這個有那麼難嗎不會啊我們會立一個案子來做來做持續分析趨勢分析 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
7023.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
7040.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
主委啊 主委 你也好有擔當OK啦OK啦 最快什麼 多久的時間要成立我們一個月內把它整理出來然後看看我們未來的趨勢要怎麼就後續怎麼計畫做 好不好一個月內喔 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
7043.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
7068.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
好謝謝何新淳委員那特別再提醒喜智捷委員執行完畢以後休息10分鐘現在請喜智捷委員喜智捷召委執行好謝謝主席我們請主委好主委林主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
7072.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
7101.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
好 委員好主委好我剛才剛才心存說到氣到要死其實主委我覺得運動會應該要講很清楚就是說哪一些是你工作要調查直接的有一些是你間接的那是直接的要列入你的撈出來的主題間接的你要不要撈出來你的主題那到底分際在哪裡你要告訴我清楚甚至就是說到底 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
7103.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
7124.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
因為防範未然有時候你不知道嚴重到什麼程度所以比如說你以行動電源來講全世界各國現在的國際標準是什麼你指揮對於行動電源上飛機的這個國際標準是什麼 指揮知道嗎我們手上沒有這個資料都沒有人知道 有人知道嗎 原來會有人知道你要再報告一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
7132.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
7156.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
報告委員那個目前來講在IKEA上面他有一些這樣子的質疑但是並沒有他最主要是說對於飛機上的使用及充電這兩個是禁止的其他關於怎麼樣置放並沒有一個國際上的一個標準所以是禁止使用行動電源禁止使用就是禁止但是攜帶 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
7158.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
7174.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
他國際沒有規範所以你就講清楚嘛那主委您知道意思嗎那就是說將來這個行動電源上飛機是要國際規範還是台灣自己要不要規範這個部分你們要研究一下嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
7175.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
7195.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
對 台灣應該要有自己的綠定啦 應該要有啦對因為每個國家的國情不要假設國際選舉有規定 它也是一個最低要求標準而已啊對 所以剛剛新竹委員問的說你們要這樣子確明確的回答 懂我意思嗎你這樣子呼 這樣子回答齁 不怪那天都會想起 你知道嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
7196.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
7201.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
主委你懂我意思嗎我覺得你將來可能這個部分回答要精準一點我舉個例子事實上有一些做得好的要謝謝你們你們的那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
7218.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
7243.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
報告裡面的第二點有講到辦理具先進駕駛輔助系統之電動車量之調查這個其實本席要求過很多次那看到你們有做我覺得也還蠻高興的啦就是說以前我們看到那個自駕車車禍雖然自駕車車禍死亡人數不足3人但是呢以前你們是死亡人數超過3人才會啟動調查 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
7245.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
7265.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
那我現在要求就是之前就要求說你自駕車因為它不只是一般的車輛而已它可能還有一些電腦系統那有一些網路通訊等等的問題所以這個部分你們現在有進入調查我是覺得應該還是給你們肯定啦有做的要額外 沒做的要檢討 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
7267.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
7290.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
所以這點也要跟你們討論一下 謝謝你們不過呢 這個還是有所不足就是說這個法規你們可以看到自駕車分了六等級那現在我們台灣做到的應該是到二就是駕駛他有一些自己可以自控但是還是要有人駕駛三 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
7293.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
7314.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
Level 3的系統有辨識環境能力駕駛適當干涉這個現在台灣有沒有沒有沒有台灣現在頂多是2.5而已那上面高雄港有港自駕車這是算Level幾你說高雄港有港自駕車 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
7316.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
7340.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
這個我...你不曉得?所以你不是說有專案在研究嗎?研究到連國用,現在開始做了不知道高雄這個郵港自家座位,依照這個判斷我覺得他應該是Level 4了因為他在港區內,真的是無人駕駛你只要上去,他就帶你郵港 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
7342.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
7355.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
所以我是覺得你們的即時訊息可能要再載入一下要比較敏感一點而且要去了解就是說到底這個自駕系統你們去研究甚至有些那個什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
7356.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
7385.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
在地下室召喚的比如說你停車停在地下室那有些人每次都找不到車他就按一下B他就開過來了這個其實是蠻方便的但是現在這個特斯拉有在用對不對對用的結果有沒有安全疑慮那如果對於這個網路通訊演算有一些網路的斷網的時候那他的安全到底有沒有疑慮 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7387.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7415.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
那你現在這個部分不知道有沒有研究我們還抱歉還沒有這方面的研究所以我看你們的調查你們是調查報告可以給我看一下嗎那個你們調查之後的報告看你們調查哪一些讓我知道一下好不好好好那再來就是說主委其實我跟各位有做要額外沒有做要檢討之前我們看過那個原子能委員會那個我也讓主委看過嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7417.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7439.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
其實科普教育包括運安、飛安、交通安全的教育很重要其實那個合約所之前我跟他要求人們也做原子能、科技、科普等你看檔案很好耶也對人民很多一線的學習跟直接的教育有很大的功用那我們來看我們自己的 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7440.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7455.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
我們自己的當時主委都有答應我就是我在112年113年4月113年6月主委都認為說這個中藥那要辦而且會跟交通部跟台鐵一起辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7457.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7476.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
現在你給我答應,還沒辦?去年有辦,去年年底在高雄有辦我們也發了一系列的宣導活動或者是研討會來教育活動譬如說我們還特別到福原大學去宣導航空教育安全然後海洋大學我也有去 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7477.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7488.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
我看你表現有六場座談跟研討會有啦有座啦那這個是不是有機會像那個我們看我後面那個雲子能委會他們辦的 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7490.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7512.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
所以它這個是就是對社會比較普及的教育啦就類似科普教育這樣子啦那你那個當然是有對象的有做我們也是覺得還不錯啦有進步我們就是先鼓勵嘛後面還有什麼有機會再發展進步的空間像原子能科技科普展這樣子類似的這樣子的活動我們有機會來辦嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7514.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7529.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
我們可以研究來辦啦這個其實是這個方向是對的還不錯啦是是所以這樣主委有承諾來辦沒問題啦沒問題啦希望說我們可以照主委的承諾能夠看到對民間更多你包括普悠瑪啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7530.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7549.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
包括太魯閣啦他這發生到底是什麼情形我們調查他又是怎樣那你比如說你在不同的車廂如果真的有什麼狀況有什麼應變措施有機會減少生命的安全的維護這個部分其實都有一些算是科普教育可以去指導的 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
7551.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
7565.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
那包括鐵路舉他的慶祝黃豆 事實上我覺得有時候我們不能說今日功績明日忘記嘛就是說今天普悠瑪跟太魯閣這個事情在我們印象當中真的都是有很大的傷亡啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
7565.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
7579.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
那像這個部分是不是像鐵路局有辦活動之外運動會是不是也可以跟鐵路局一起類似這樣子的一個宣導也讓人民記得這樣子一個傷痛那現在國家是不是已經 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
7581.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
7596.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
運安跟鐵路局是不是已經改善將來這個部分的疑慮安全可以沒有安全的疑慮可以將來的行車都可以安全這個部分是不是主委也一併來思考就是說跟鐵路局你們把這個成果總是要讓大家知道一下好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
7597.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
7615.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
我們可以把 變成一個鐵道安全的議題然後 把他倒進酒來搬啊這樣好不好我是希望說 這樣喔真的 我們要看到未來這個情形不要再發生啦是 謝謝所以最重要 我們運安就是你們處理事故之外以後事故不再發生 這是我們最大的目的嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
7616.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
7639.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
所以希望說這個部分那主委就可以跟鐵路局那一起像這個一個know-how的一個整理然後讓呈現給人民知道我想這個也相當的重要好不好這個就主委也找時間再繼續來辦理好不好好 謝謝 謝謝委員長 謝謝OK 謝謝好 謝謝喜智傑召委現在我們休息十分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
7670.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
7671.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
谢谢观看 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
7685.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
7714.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
請問請問 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
7721.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
7733.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
我們現在在走我們現在在走我們在走我們在走 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
7743.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
7747.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
前面的桌子的空間很涼快 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
7758.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
7758.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
誰會是在那邊 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
7773.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
7780.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
好 我現在來打給你們看好 打給你們看好 打給你們看 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
7789.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
7792.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
中文字幕志愿者 李宗盛 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
7812.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
7823.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
再加水,再加水再加水再加水再加水再加水再加水再加水再加水再加水再加水再加水 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
7840.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
7862.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
他們的 他們的 他們的 他們的 他們的 他們的 他們的 他們的 他們的 他們的 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
7865.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
7866.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
嗯嗯嗯 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
7888.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
7890.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
這間餐廳是一間餐廳的中間餐廳 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
7915.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
7919.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
中文字幕志愿者 李宗盛 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
7937.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
7938.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
新竹新竹 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
7966.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
7995.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
對 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
8006.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
8006.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
蝦仁 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
8011.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
8011.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
香蕉 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
8042.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
8048.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
這張圖是在2012年, 當時是在2012年, 當時是在2012年 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
8065.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
8092.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
如果想要多做一件事的話就來做一件事如果想要多做一件事的話就來做一件事如果想要多做一件事的話就來做一件事如果想要多做一件事的話就來做一件事如果想要多做一件事的話就來做一件事如果想要多做一件事的話就來做一件事 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
8095.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
8095.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
身體 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
8124.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
8149.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
市長在講說我們要先把經濟環境整理好我只想要一個對於我只想要一個對於就是說我們在整理整理整理整理整理整理整理整理整理整理 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
8159.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
8160.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
謝謝大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
8246.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
8273.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
好 現在各位官員請就座請林靜憲委員執行謝謝主席 本席邀請我們運安會林主委運安會林主委委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
8274.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
8303.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
所以有兩件交通異常的狀況請教主委有了解嗎第一個就是高鐵啊到站沒有開門然後車子就開走了另外一個就是台鐵啊有一個列車他停車的時候呢超過月台所以鐵路的台鐵的駕駛啊就把ATP改掉然後再倒車 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
8304.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
8331.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
再倒車回到月台去這件事情 主委知道嗎知道那我們 慾觀會有介入調查嗎這個案子還沒有到調查不過我們認為應該有檢討的空間什麼檢討空間 你想要調查嗎他們的列車駕駛跟他們列車廠之間他們整個公司的整個處理師第一個喔 高鐵從創立以來大概第一次發生這種狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
8334.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
8359.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
就是你車子停了 沒有開門然後呢 要把車開走這班車是北上的還好它停在板橋所以在板橋要下車的旅客沒有辦法下車上車當然也不行但頂多沒有辦法下車的旅客多載一站到台北下車 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
8360.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
8369.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
那這台車如果是在台中沒有開門 那旅客就麻煩啦你在台中沒辦法下車 會不會直接強迫載到台北或板橋來那 主委你有坐過高鐵嗎有有有高鐵上下車啊 它都是 因為我這個也算職業坐高鐵的啦 我在自己坐的啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
8383.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
8403.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
他一定要有一定的訊號他還用手勢還有巡車邊的人員然後當場的指揮場鎮主任指揮還用吹哨子司機才可以開走那他沒有開車門所以也沒有指揮他可以開走他沒有得到可以開走的訊號他就把車開走所以我覺得這個已經不是有沒有開門的問題這個是已經是一個算 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
8414.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
8441.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
如果第一個以高鐵過去營運績效那麼好安全的評價那麼高發生這種事情我覺得要介入調查而且過去像這種台鐵高鐵基本上應該要有因為他們都是重要的運輸工具如果發生重大的缺失甚至有安全性的問題都應該要由公正第三者調查 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
8442.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
8463.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
你現在不調查就變成高鐵自己調查自己了台鐵自己調查自己了那那麼查的可不可能大事化小對不對 都內部的人嘛 對不對所以這個也是為什麼議員會要成立的目的嘛你們就是一個專業公正的第三者我認為應該要介入調查了否則啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
8467.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
8479.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
高鐵發生這麼離譜的錯誤啦如果以我搭車的經驗啦這個是很離譜因為你車子停下來也會有訊號要你開車門而且車長 列車長也會開車門他有兩個鑰匙 應該是有兩個鑰匙那時候駕駛沒有打開因為開車門的列車長也會把鑰匙他會去轉開嘛好 那如果轉不開他跟駕駛怎麼聯絡聯絡不上嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
8499.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
8527.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
然後如果你沒有開車門他絕對不可能給你訊號叫你開走應該是這樣子吧那他為什麼可以把車開走呢沒有等到現在就把車開走我覺得請運安委密切注意這種事情因為通常重大事故都會由不當停車開始的我們來看台鐵台鐵在今年2025年已經有六次的 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
8528.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
8553.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
不當停車啦1月5號他停車位置認錯所以最後一個車廂沒有進入月台最後一班車沒有進入月台啦2月27號過站不停3月13號停車超出月台有四個車廂啦停車停到位置啦3月13號一樣喔過站不停3月20號過站不停 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
8558.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
8583.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
4月11號停車位置錯了超出月台台鐵今年已經有6次停車不當那我們再來看台鐵在過去有個案例他在高雄戈戎沙地處就發生重大鐵道事故了他也是因為過站不停然後再倒車當時就有 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
8586.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
8612.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
就有曾經發生過啦那國外喔 日本有一個慘案啦日本發生一個慘案是日本JRC日本喔他有一個班車啦那司機喔停錯位置就不當停車他超過了月台72公尺後來呢 他已經要倒車嘛然後倒車以後那個霧點了嘛所以他就加速嘛希望把時間給彌補回來 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
8614.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
8644.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
結果就超速超速那個造成出軌就撞到了公寓撞到大樓死了一百多個人所以這個就是蝴蝶效應不要小看停車停錯這個就是管理有問題那你從這種小地方這種最基本的不容許犯錯的那你都會犯錯了那如果發生重大事故那當然沒有意外了 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
8645.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
8665.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
你看啊我整理給主委看啊台北台北就今年就有六件我說我希望啊包括我剛給主委分享的這一次台鐵的違規停車啊不當停車啦也請議員會主動了解好不好你現在有霸王條款了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
8667.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
8696.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
對不對今年二月今年二月我過去就一直要求你們要把運安會的罷網條款再改回來什麼樣的事故運安會可以介入但是運安會應該也有一個罷網條款就是如果你運安會認為該事件你有主動權可以介入你認為這個事件不單純必須要在進一步調查其實你是可以介入的是這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
8697.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
8707.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
這個是可以研議的那你這個我希望你應該進入去調查吧還有現在這樣發生一個案例啊就是華航降轉這個問題啊華航有一個班機要飛新加坡主委知道這個事情吧知道對不對他飛了一個多小時 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
8723.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
8750.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
往往這班機飛了一個小時從桃園要飛到新加坡飛了快一半結果有出現異常再飛回來飛回來降轉在高雄小港機場當時就有人質疑啦你都飛一半了如果小問題為什麼不停越南就停附近什麼我也不知道啦就整個飛機再飛回來 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
8752.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
8767.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
那這個案子運安會有調查嗎因為他轉將這個是還算一般也沒有嘛但是那轉將原因呢我們有在關注他這個案子為什麼會沒有就近轉將這個案子也沒有報給運安會運安會有收到發行轉報過來了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
8778.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
8794.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
報告委員這個案子是民航局他已經在調查了所以民航局有複製到運安會那我們也知道說這個事件的他的原因是經過的原因我們有在關注這個事件以上報告你的關注程度跟我一樣看新聞 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
8796.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
8820.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
因為 應安會如果接到有正式的立案的話 你在網站會公佈啦就所謂的初步 初步調查你這個案子連初步調查都沒有就是你現在根本就不去調查這個事情只是民安局告訴你而已嘛那這個 我認為 飛機的這種異常 更嚴重啦 更嚴重啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
8822.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
8844.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
有一些非常安全喔就只要稍微有意外都是死傷都會很慘重的我也希望醫院會啊像這種狀況啊院會應該要多也可以主動了解吧我們主動了解好不好這個就是所謂霸王條款的作用嘛對那我再那我再提一點在三三雕角喔有一台貨車台鐵的貨車出軌 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
8847.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
8875.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
或是出軌就造成民眾不便嘛 當然嘛 已經整個卡住了後來復軌 就是把這個拖軌的列車再把它弄好拖了很長的時間啊那為什麼拖那麼長時間台鐵把責任推給運安會 推給貴會啦台鐵說啊 拖了那麼久 這個列車才復軌是因為啊 在等運安會來做調查 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
8877.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
8891.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
就好像有時候我們發現車子碰撞的車禍 會停在路邊當警察來看嗎那這個事情呢 就怎麼會造成 啊 耽擱那麼久現在台鐵說是因為等運安會了 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
8893.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
8921.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
我也沒什麼時間我講快一點結果運安會說沒有啊早上11點的出軌啊我運安會啊1點多就派人來了我3點以前我就調查完畢了那台鐵拖到5點車輛車廂才覆軌我了解是這樣子啦我不知道是哪一邊講錯啦但是你要知道如果如果台鐵的消息不是不正確那你們要澄清啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
8922.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
8949.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
你運動安衛有一個訊息澄清專區主委知道嗎知道現在是空白啦你從來沒有澄清過任何消息啦我是給主委你提起啦這個人家會關注啊那你已經知道火車出軌了這個算重大意外啦你要趕快去看啦台鐵說是不是因為你拖到時間啊我不知道是不是這樣子啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
8951.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
8977.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
你是不是啊他們對媒體講說在等一段會這是他們比較work in level的人啦工程技術人員講的啦那你要 你可以澄清一下你為什麼不澄清還是你當做那個沒關係啦沒有你的事我們有要跟他澄清說這個因為他有話要說過才有話要說的是喔是喔你的意思是這樣對不對我是提醒你啦你有澄清你該澄清嘛對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
8979.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
8979.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
謝謝林俊憲委員現在請徐富奎委員執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
9015.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
9040.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
謝謝主席 有請我們林主委好 運安會林主委主委早主委我想這個運安會是我們台灣這個跨運區安全調查的最高的一個專責機構那我想這幾年下來我們也發現一個很嚴重的問題就是說這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
9041.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
9065.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
我們整個這個運輸安全制度上面存在高度的結果導向而不是一個風險的一個導向所以今天有幾個問題要請教一下主委我想這個剛剛我們林俊炫委員在提的我自己有發現好幾個問題就是說我們這個運安會的這個立案標準過於僵化明明很多案件這個存在危險存在這個已經出了事故 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
9066.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
9073.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
但我們運安會卻沒有介入去做一個高風險的一個調查處理的一個機制問題到底出在哪裡 主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
9075.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
9100.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
委員講的確實沒有錯一般外面的認知是說這個影響為何沒有調查問題是他法律的規定在中大藝術法委員裡面有一個律定剛剛林俊賢委員講的也沒有說我們有另外一個罷免條款所以如果認為造成人民生命財產安全什麼我就應該要進入調查確實是有這個機制主委你說我們說的都沒有不對但是要怎麼去改變這樣子一個制度 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
9102.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
9116.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
我們有幾個案子今天早上講有一些電動車我們都主動去關切他說這個案子要調查確實是這樣主委我想像我剛剛我要舉一個例子就是我們去年我們台鐵有個內圍案這事主委知道沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
9119.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
9137.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
我們有一個三三三四次的那個去建車的司機員沒有遵守這個SOP進行倒車那這個事情聽起來是說因為還好沒有出事情所以這個我們好像就把他當閒 事之不宜人家給處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
9141.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
9162.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
這個令維這個案子有調查嗎沒有調查沒有沒有對那像這樣的一個制度怎麼去處理我們都總是這樣被動這個被動式的一個調查這樣一個機制難道不應該檢討嗎還是我們應該建立一個高潛在風險的一個事故的一個立案機制我是不是請提到主人好請說 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
9165.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
9188.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
委員跟委員報告內圍站這一個案子我們有主動去了解那過去台鐵有幾次的這一個司機員停車位置不當不管他有沒有通報我們都會主動了解那沒有立案是因為他沒有到達立案的門檻但是我們有持續關注那是情況我們會啟用報案條款去立案那我舉一個例子過去在年底 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
9189.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
9214.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
那台鐵有幾次這個吊車的事件因為我們發現到它的頻率很高所以我們在今年就啟動霸王條款那立案調查以上主委那我請教一下像這樣子一個院安會一個專業跟人力的資源的部分我記得上次我們一直在委員一直在討論到目前為止我們相關的人力跟這個專業的這個資源的部分還有什麼不足的地方嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
9215.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
9227.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
目前我們的利害OK但是委員剛剛提的這個風險導向確實是一個很好的idea因為因為我們如果調查的報告做最後導出根本照樣的說我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
9229.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
9245 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
報告的過程中會有說跟風險因素有關係的我們也會有做重新分析所以類似的東西類似的事件出來的時候我們都會會做定性定量都會是啦這邊還是要提醒一下主委因為我們現在的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
9246.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
9272.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
運具的領域都不一樣啦所以需要的一個事故調查的人力的部分也要有涵蓋包含像智慧公路無人機還有自駕車這些的那個新興運具的一個調查的一個專業嗎是不是這樣才能夠去符合這樣的一個需求嘛對我們現在也用AI的技術引進來每一個組都有在用開始在引導了所以這本應該還是要趕快去盤點應該去落實啦你沒有人是可以做這個工作 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
9276.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
9299.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
主委 我想這個沒有客氣 應該是要補人就要來補人啦是是是那另外我想 主委 我們運安會是不是有面臨一個所謂的資料取得困難甚至是一個多頭管轄的問題議員的了解 你們在調查這個鐵路事故的時候要跟台鐵索取這個行控資料調查飛安的時候要跟民航局跟航管中心借這個資料 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
9300.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
9329.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
而且有時候還涉及外包的一個維修業者那主委如果一旦事故發生那院會能不能在第一時間取得完整沒有經過篡改的關鍵資料目前為止應該沒有這個現象取得都是OK的這樣是不是有必要我們來推動一個跨部會即時資料的調閱平台跟一個事故資料的備份機制來避免我們的調查過程受到阻礙這有沒有這個必要性 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
9330.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
9358.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
要不請執行長你看看這個因為這個涉及多模組的報告委員目前我們在包括航空包括鐵道的一個部分我們在取得資料的部分目前各單位都是相當的配合沒有問題目前為止沒有聽到有任何的一個困難那有沒有必要來推動這個跨部會的即時資料調閱平台謝謝委員這邊的一個關心那如果未來我們有 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
9359.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
9364.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
有相關的這樣子一個需求的話我們是不是再請委員再協助本會 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
9365.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
9390.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
我想這個是很重要的一個機制啦這個我們也應該是要立即取得資料趕後來做調查那我另外還是要提醒主委因為我們現在我們運安會的這個調查報告有時候等半年甚至一年才會出來這個我覺得這個時效真的是太慢了而且對於我們社會來講大家知道事故發生之後就是要知道真相但是我們現在都一直在等等幾步等沒這個消息 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
9391.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
9408.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
這個部分的那個機制主委要怎麼去做一個階段性的資訊公開的制度怎麼樣讓我們這個社會大眾能夠盡快了解一下這個進度這部分有沒有做這樣的一個規劃委員這個意見真的非常好因為我們是一個參與式的調查 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
9410.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
9434.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
那麼調查過程中我們會有一個叫做調查期間的安全通告那最主要我們中間前半段還有一個事實資料報告但是事實資料就是會跟社會大眾講說這個案子最主要有幾個幾個幾個現象發生讓他知道真正的原因因為我們的原因尤其是水路如果有當然我們要精準啊對對對我們有設計賠償保險理賠所以我們會不會要很精準 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
9437.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
9463.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
但譬如說我們第一階段一個月之內能不能有個初步的一個報告三個月之內能不能有一個進度的一個報告我們其實有初步報告是啊 我覺得這樣對社會大眾有一個高台我們往這個方向來努力啦每個案子都有初步報告主委我再請教齁如果說你們報告交給主管機關之後我們的對方不採納我們這樣的一個建議我們有什麼樣的一個機制 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
9464.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
9487.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
事實上我們的事實資料報告出來監察院都會拿去看那看監察院就直接根據我們的事實資料報告就會跟 欸你這個單位有行政疏失啊什麼但是我們不是要以處罰為目的我們是要找出根本的噪音這才是我們的關鍵啊 對對是啦 要等到這個不接受報告這個事情後續還是不改進這個怎麼做處理後續 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
9489.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
9506.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
我們會流程上看看用怎麼樣對社會大眾關注的案子會讓他更體貼我們可以適時的可以總是找出問題一定要改進啊改進我們也要去追蹤啊要去追蹤你們做的報告有什麼意義沒意義啊事故還是會發生啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
9508.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
9519.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
這個螺絲還是會掉滿地啊那我們一般行政院列管的時候我們跟行政院列管的時候我們跟行政院講行政院也有政務委也在有時候會定期開這個會請交通部、鄉會主管那個局處會來 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
9523.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
9540.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
所以針對剛剛我提的那幾個點齁能不能在一個月之內給我們一個書面的報告針對我講的包含這個階段性的資訊公告還有一個所謂的一個調閱平台的部分我們是不是做一個研究好不好沒問題啊沒問題一個月之內給我一個報告好不好沒問題沒問題好謝謝好謝謝委員謝謝徐副國務委員現在請廖先祥委員執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
9557.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
9566.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
好 謝謝主席喔 麻煩邀請我們林主委好 應安會林主委阿維好主委好 這剛剛 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
9568.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
9597.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
我剛剛聽到這個林俊憲委員的這個詢答啦那有提到說可能台鐵發生事故的時候那都會說等運安會的人來到現場所以等了一些時間其實我自己本身有這樣子的一個經驗啦在之前有一次連假的時候那也是在大概在平溪縣的時候有一個出軌啦出軌的事情那他們也是用這樣子的方式回答我說要等到運安會的人到了現場把該採集的資料採集了完了之後他們的工程單位的人員才能夠去做 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
9598.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
9619.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
後續的一個搶救跟復救的一個工作當然等我們的人來我們這個可能在上班日或者是連假的時候我們人員到達的時間總是比較沒有一定因為我們畢竟不是像他們那種大的單位隨時都有人駐守那我想確認一下我們運安會針對各項的事故那可能尤其是公路的運輸或者是鐵道運輸這個可能會比較影響到這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
9623.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
9631.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
通勤 民眾通勤的一些問題我們有沒有在不同的時段要求我們的同仁抵達的一個時間的限制就自通報期 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
9634.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
9659.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
事實上我們有24小時在值班你們都24小時值班我們一通報就是第一時間就同仁如果是下班時間馬上就會調回來所以各組也都會有都有各組24小時值班我們運安會有一個24小時值班人員值班人員就負責通報所以航空的水路鐵道什麼就通報各調查組的人該回來所以休息的時候就會把他們Call回來沒有錯 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
9660.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
9666.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
包括他們休息的時候我們也都會有待命的就是說我們雖然是休息但是可能也都會有相關的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
9667.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
9692.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
待命的輪值表就是說如果說在這段休假的期間有需要的話雖然說你休假那我們會優先找誰會有這樣子的一個機制嗎有各組各組放假日長假日都有輪值表就是說你下班你雖然是譬如說前面一節假期嘛四天那你是輪到的你不准離開大台北地區你不可以到南部去有都有那有相關的要求抵達時間的一個要求嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
9693.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
9710.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
呃最快的速度都會快最快了都是一到就包計程車就過去因為可能台鐵都會說我們的人先到了但是運航位的人還沒到我想這個這個是誤傳誤傳好好那沒關係我們現場調查總是要一些時間啊我想有時候呃各自單位會有不同的立場啊那 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
9712.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
9739.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
指責別的單位都是最容易的那就是可能之後在相關的摩擦或者說在怎樣的情況下我們台鐵能夠做哪一些預制的準備動作可能在等我們運安會在調查的時候人員到達前或者是調查過程收證的過程中我們來一些處置桌子有時候我們也可以跟那些比較頻繁發生事故的單位有一些在時程上面的一些合作的模式希望說我們後面能夠多一些協調少一點摩擦這樣子是因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
9742.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
9763.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
因為我們最快的時間尤其是鐵路因為他很快就要復舊要恢復他的運轉我們會最快的時間去事實上還有一個原因就是我們最快的時間去會把證據流失我們要蒐集證據我們要帶著儀器不是空手去我們要帶著儀器有的儀器是重型的有的時候是輕型的不一定要看case by case |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
9763.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
9782.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
是好那就後續再麻煩是謝謝委員長那另外啊再看我們的這個今天的報告啊因為之前去年有一個那個入籍的船隻嘛那在野柳外海擱淺嘛那我就看了一下我們後面針對各個單位啊針對各個單位我們預案會提出的缺失未改正的一些統計表我們發現 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
9784.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
9812.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
有些單位跟其他單位落差的還蠻大的包括航港局他的總案件數就是自己一個人高高在上這樣子那三年以上的雖然說案件數沒那麼高但是台鐵這個單位確實也比其他單位的數量明顯的增加了許多我不曉得我們實際上在跟這兩個單位在溝通的時候我們是提出了哪些東西讓他們好像沒有辦法達成有沒有辦法做一些減要的概述 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
9813.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
9834.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
可能今年到了這個我們颱風季要如果說有任何的水域發生事故的話對我們的漁民大家都是非常擔心的啦我們也是希望說避免那看到這樣子的一個未達成缺失的一個案件統計大家真的還是會比較擔心的能不能針對這兩個單位的缺失狀況跟大家說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
9836.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
9863.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
呃有些單位像台鐵台鐵他的被安全感他的那個項目裡面的設計台鐵的組織要調整譬如說他要安裝這個駕駛式的影音記錄器設置等等他要設計法規的修訂等等所以這些對台鐵來講就是屬於就是他幾十年來沒做突然要做他需要制度面甚至他必須要跟同仁所以跟經費有關嗎還是單純管理面的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
9864.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
9887.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
有的是經費有的是管理面有的是觀念的溝通好那可不可以會後就是針對台鐵的這五項的缺失我們三年以上的沒有改善的這五項具體的一個項目我們的可能給他們的資料也給我們也給我辦公室或者是給交委會一份這樣子沒問題那另外港港局的部分20多件 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
9889.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
9904.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
香港局齁都是飲水人的這個安全管理的問題飲水人辦事處啊 強制飲水區啊或者是這個VTS系統的整個制度內的改善等等他也是長期以來所累積出來的問題所以他需要較多時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
9905.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
9935.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
所以就是長期累積的問題所以這個算是岸上管裡面的問題還是航行上面的一些管裡面的問題都有但是最主要還是在岸上這邊的問題岸上這邊的問題嗎那陸籍的船隻的這個部分我們預計五月提這個會有先會有一個中期的一個報告算是一個中期的報告嘛那年底的時候會有一個完整的報告那在這段時間那大家當然還是會擔心啦那有沒有部分的東西是可以先立即要求航港局去做改善的 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
9936.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
9958.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
我們可以給委員一些資料就是說他有分階段分期之後我們可以把資料給委員參考就是分階段就出判的時候就會有一些可能希望他們改善的項目然後中期的時候5月的這份報告也會有部分的改項目包括最後期末的時候今年年底的部分也會有一些具體的改項目是這樣子分階段嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
9959.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
9985.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
都沒有說分短中長期的但是我們調查報告過程調查過程中是就如我剛剛講他有有譬如說事實資料報告然後調查期限當前通告等等那這些過程中因為水路單位 港港局 港務公司 交通部因為每一個調查案都是屬於參與式調查他們都有派員來參與所以他們在參與的過程中就會知道他們都已經知道都會知道嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
9985.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
10004.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
所以很多調查案到我們最終調查報告出來之後然後提出安全改善建議結果他安全改善一下就提出來因為他過程中已經開始在做了那到目前野柳的這個個案我們目前所認定可能最大的為師會是在哪一邊就是需要最具體改善的項目 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
10005.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
10030.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
就是我剛剛講制度沒有就飲水人的問題嘛飲水辦事處的問題等等嘛那有沒有具體的就是哪的這個制度的哪個問題有就是他飲水瓦他要蓋嘛他修飲水瓦花很多時間他已經花了一兩年的時間因為那個是一個很大的一個花有沒有辦法用比較白畫的方式就是可能他造成這次事故最主要的原因啦白畫一點好我請水路組調查一下因為他比較細好 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
10033.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
10052.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
有關於那個是玉洲起航他從基隆港離開那個時候剛好是颱風他去避颱他到廣東的附近避颱這個避颱的過程中因為外面的颱風外圍環流非常的強烈所以他沒辦法順利的到達他的目的去避航 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
10052.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
10077.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
那這中間他就被這個強烈的風就吹到這個就是這個岸上擱淺那這個案子呢他最主要的事就是剛好談到他避台他如果去因為他是在這個港區裡面碰到颱風的時候我如果及時讓這條船出去但是他之前又破有個案子他把兩個這個他把一個喬斯基給推倒自己喬斯基也壞掉 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
10078.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
10095.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
所以這個案子本身又要賠償他談賠償需要時間所以這個賠償的時間也耽擱到這個後面的離港時間所以是一連串的包括是在港區裡面他什麼時候要離開港區需要飲水人所以剛剛我們主委提到這個飲水人的事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
10095.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
10114.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
所以就是說這是一連串的事情就在一起到最後他就沒辦法這個順利這個去避台所以這中間呢我們就牽涉到的是有飲水欄的啦有這個防台措施啦還有這個這條船呢因為他是擱淺在這個我們的北海岸這附近但是這個時候因為天氣非常不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
10115.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
10131.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
它雖然是一條非常大的救難船但是我們國內目前其實並沒有這麼大型的救難船已經知道它會擱淺但是它還沒擱淺之前能不能趕快把它抓回來這是一個我們要討論的議題所以後面這個也是我們運安會調查的重點就是事故發生之後處理的緊急應變問題是以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
10134.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
10147.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
好 那就是今年颱風季也要到啦 去年每年都有颱風 那就希望說大家擔心的事情我們能夠督促我們的香港局不要再讓類似的情況再次的發生 再麻煩我們領養會 好 謝謝謝謝委員 謝謝謝謝廖先祥委員現在請蔡其昌副院長執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
10165.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
10189.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
謝謝主席 大家早請林主委好 應安衛林主委主委早這個有兩個議題想跟你分享一下一些意見跟看法第一個大概就是這個剛剛應該今天早上或許應該有委員也問到這個陽梅休息站 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
10192.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
10211.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
一個分隔島這幾年我隨便查了一下應該好幾起事故都撞這個分隔島今年最新的就是今年的1月25日撞了分隔島結果就有起火造成了傷亡 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
10212.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
10223.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
主委你大概知道這個事情你們也開始著手進行調查公路組應該有在調查那現在調查的進度是什麼現在調查進度 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
10227.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
10245.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
跟委員報告那目前我們已經去收集相關的資料並且把這個電動車拖掉到我們的一個消防署的一個場地裡面去做整個車輛電池的一個檢查那我們預計預計會在這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
10255.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
10270.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
七月份的時候會出一個事實資料的一個報告那再來會去做分析跟審查所以最晚會在明年的七月去完成這個調查報告的一個發布好好組長那個你你 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
10272.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
10293.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
那一個分隔島每次撞都是電動車嗎或者是都是含有自動駕駛或者輔助駕駛系統的車子嗎就你們的現行的資料裡面我先不管那個調查最後那個結果跟原因啦就是說以目前可見的這些撞上去的是不是都是電動車輔助駕駛系統的車子 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
10297.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
10309.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
跟委員報告我們已經收集這個歷次的一個資料那你撞了幾次你現在手上有的資料撞了幾次就那一個分隔島每次都撞那一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
10311.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
10326.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
對 目前有大概比較我今天手上比較掌握的大概有七件七件對 那有一個是遊覽車也撞那一個對 也是撞那這七件裡面的車輛是否都是 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
10327.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
10357.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
自駕系統 或者有輔助駕駛系統那大概有三件是有開啟那駕駛說他有開啟 先不管他有沒有開啟是不是都是有這樣的車子並不是 還有是一般的車輛也都會去在初步你不覺得很弔詭嗎就一個分隔島撞七次的就你有的資料啦至少他就撞七次了那你會不會覺得這個現在不是七月啦 不談玄學就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
10358.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
10379.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
這裡面的原因我覺得是值得探究因為老是撞這個地方這很怪那當然今年1月這個是有媒體報導是有開啟輔助駕駛系統那本席從這一題裡面我其實很擔憂一個事情科技一直在發展跟進步 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
10381.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
10410.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
所以未來這個運具當中它所包括以後AI的運用或者等等它勢必會越來越多的對人類看起來更方便但是它的安全性它必須跟因為它的安全性不管你雷達不管你用攝像鏡頭就簡單講現在我們可預知的科技的概念跟體系它基本上跟環境都產生很大的關係 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
10411.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
10437.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
那我當然不知道這個雲南會調查這個結果是不是因為譬如說標線或者其他的裡面的環境的裝置物讓輔助系統去誤判這個我不知道因為要等你們專家來調查出那個結果但是這個結果啊還要一段時間你7月才公布你所收集到的這些事實狀況那你要再進行調查可能又要一段滿場的時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
10439.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
10454.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
可是這些科技國人同胞每天正在使用輔助駕駛系統大家也逐漸的熟悉而且我相信很多人或許他就很習慣在某一些時段或者某一些路段他就開啟了輔助駕駛系統 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
10457.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
10476.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
那如果這樣的問題不趕快解決我覺得這個其實是一件蠻令人擔憂的事情蠻令人擔憂因為大家都在做這個事情那我講過它跟環境會有關係嘛因為它是電腦所以它透過雷達透過攝像鏡頭然後讀取快速判讀 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
10476.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
10499.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
然後這個輔助系統它就會依照這個判讀的結果去做操作但如果這個環境我們沒有辦法細緻的去掌握到特別是一個地方老是撞那裡那這個有一點危險就簡單講就是說下一個會不會又開了如果假設它跟輔助系統的判讀錯誤有關 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
10502.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
10524.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
那會不會下一個在那個地方開輔助駕駛系統的人又再來一次所以有時候有一些案子它是有急迫性的就是說它可能對你其他運具或載具的這些使用發生事故 大型事故或許你用比較長的時間 因為它不常被發生 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
10527.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
10554.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
所以或許他時效現場可以容許你做一個比較完整性依照你們的進程跟流程去做調查但是本席比較擔心的是老是撞這裡然後這裡面又有一些是開了輔助系統我不知道這有沒有關聯性但我覺得像這種事情應該是不是有一種機制你們應該要緊述的去做至少把它至少把這個可能性先排除說應該不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
10556.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
10573.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
開輔助系統的問題所以主委你現在懂我在講什麼嗎這個可不可以先來去調查了解或者做一點排除或者讓大家安心或者你警告大家最好這裡不要開輔助系統因為它有可能是原因之一 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
10575.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
10599.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
對 委員這個分析的非常透徹這個案子的調查重點我們是分成三個組在做一個道路環境分組還有車輛跟紀錄器的分組還有一個操作生涯因素因素其中有關道路環境分組裡面特別講要檢視道路跟它的交通工程設計它是不是符合法規就剛剛委員講的跟我們的方向是一致的 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
10600.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
10624.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
所以我的意思是說至少你如果沒有你一定要等到這個115年以後才可能把那個調查這是你們預估嘛那可不可以再事先做一點警示或者是狀況的排除就它不是最終報告但優先去把它做一點了解跟讓提醒我覺得這個可不可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
10625.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
10646.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
這個案子我們已經立案調查那過程中我們有跟高空局有在聯絡高空局事實上他已經對這個路口已經開始在看要怎麼改善他已經在研究了所以是不是輔助系統不知道所以我的意思就是說這是攸關人命 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
10647.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
10667.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
所以我但是我知道你們有程序你們要嚴謹因為你們講的話或許會對社會或者對產業的有一點衝擊對但是我的意思還是老話一句人命無價如果說你說一件案子老是就是就發生過一次可是在你的手上就七次都撞同一個地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
10669.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
10694.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
這件事情我覺得不能夠跟一般的案件等閒失之沒有錯好不好主委你去研究一下看什麼方式去做一點提示提醒或者說確定排除這個應該可不可以提早一下可不可以我們可以研究一下謝謝那第二件齁這個就是我們助理在非安報告裡面早上好像委員有提到這個耳機掉掉到那個椅子那個事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
10695.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
10719.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
所以這個是這樣子 像這些東西第一個我們不可能禁止大家不戴耳機然後你也不可能禁止不戴那種單顆會掉落那種耳機的確是很容易掉落我自己使用的經驗來講 我也常常會不小心就掉落那要不要制定一個系統 因為後來這個案子的處理方式是拆椅子 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
10720.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
10744.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
就是叫飛機先不要飛因為那個耳機裡面有電池嘛那怕產生危險所以我們叫飛機不要飛航空公司也算負責叫飛機不要飛然後拆椅子拆完之後把那個耳機取出然後裝回去然後再飛那像這種案子啊這個以後我認為他掉落的機率蠻高的 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
10745.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
10760.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
所以那這個要不要我們來有一套SOP或者使用什麼樣的方式可以來比拆椅子更可以快速排除啦因為你動不動一個不小心掉了那飛機可能一耽誤又一個小時兩個小時甚至更久 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
10761.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
10784.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
那這個對我們在航空業或者說對旅客的甚至商務的方便性跟效率上面這個都會造成很大的衝擊所以我的看法是第一個不可能叫人家不戴耳機第二個不可能影響飛行安全我們就給他飛了所以我們一定要有第三種選擇就是怎麼樣可以快速排除所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
10786.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
10811.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
運安會是不是找至少國航裡面椅子的設計它有多少種樣態那這些樣態可能如果發生這種情況它掉落的位置在什麼位置有可能可以做什麼樣處理這個是不是可以來做一個SOP或者一個簡單的指引這種東西我們可以來研議看看好不好或是把它綠定出來對就是有建議他們找大家來討論一下看這個因為這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
10813.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
10838.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
諸葛我不知道你有沒有使用啦你應該沒有使用啦像我就是有使用的可能我年紀還算輕啦不知道這沒有老人家的問題啦很多老人家我看他也在用我在公園看到那個老人家在運動的時候他也帶跟我相同的耳機可是我覺得這個耳機真的容易掉真的容易掉像我們家買這種耳機啊最常發生的原因就是掉了一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
10840.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
10868.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
就是小朋友不小心掉了或者我自己又不小心就掉了掉了一顆所以我覺得掉落是會容易會容易發生的事情所以研議一下啦好沒問題我們來先走幾個開會對這個應該不宜拖太久啦看怎麼處理好不好三個月半年內就把他把這個排除的方式有一個指引啦是謝謝好謝謝好謝謝蔡其章副院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
10870.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
10890.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
請遊浩委員執行謝謝 協會主席 那有請主委好 運安會林主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
10895.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
10925.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
委員好主委好剛才在會議之前我們有遇到感謝你誇獎我都對運安會不錯但是主委對於包括會內的業務那我也希望說對於不錯是真的讓我們的運安會不管是人力資源物力來講都能夠充足才能夠對於我們社會各界符合這個期待來展現這個主委的魄力 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
10925.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
10941.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
那同樣的延續之前我們碰面的時候那時候跟您就教了那這個人力補充的部分啊那從在去年的時候就跟主委有提到那時候跟人事行政總署反映的一個情況想問一下主委目前進度為何 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
10942.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
10959.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
目前人力因為我們高峰期過了那我們內部當時也在做這個每個調查官的主要專長次要專長那我們也在做這個我們成立一個叫做檢視資源小組就是說在不是那麼專業的Domain Knowledge的情況之下 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
10960.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
10983.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
因為我們調查的過程有五個階段嘛一個是通報現場直接可以回答我預計在今年或明年有沒有機會能夠來增加人力或是過大變質我們希望這樣子啊那目前人事行政總署的回覆是如何但是我們知道困難度很高如果委員會幫我們push一下我們非常感謝我們當然樂意push啊那目前的話就是回覆來講的話是說沒有辦法嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
10985.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
11006.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
如果說沒有辦法的話那我們就接著來去質詢人事行政總署看他如何來協助那麼重要的一個單位那這個攸關在整個國內的這個包含運輸安全的改善那我是覺得說必須要讓大家有充足的能力甚至還有充足的一個資源因為這個部分必須要用人才來能夠去決定還有這個所謂調查的結果 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
11007.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
11034.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
那沒關係那個我還是現在來講目前還沒有人力上面能夠更好的消息那我也希望說要如何能夠協助預案會提高人力的這個部分那我們是希望說能夠有所進展那這樣子我相信也是同仁們的期待那接著要請教一下主委這個預案會我剛才聽國城召委在質詢的時候也提到解凍案可以趕快送那目前來講有準備要送了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
11035.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
11062.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
準備要送了 在鎖上 都已經寫得差不多了寫得差不多 對好 那我相信如果說那麼重要的一個解答案我們看到其實在任何的一個預算不管是凍結或者是刪除案我們一定是基於預算的使用我們要為人民勘緊荷包那所以說這個部分不應該成為這個所謂他們在操作大罷免來添柴火的這種題目那尤其是運安會 大家的loading那麼重 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
11063.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
11085.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
所以是希望說盡快將這個解凍案能夠送交委員會那讓這個過程趕快盡快來加速如果說可以的話我看其實許多的部會其實都已經送了我看如果可以的話運安會早晚也在這邊提出了呼喊跟期待嘛那我是覺得為了同仁啊那不管是行政院這邊給怎麼樣的壓力啊那我是覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
11085.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
11094.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
基於同仁跟部會機關來講大家的業務來講可以盡快送出的話那在這個月的話是可以完成送出了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
11101.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
11119.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
同樣的就是說在上次的話本席在諮詢的時候交通部長他那時候有提到因為當然大家每個同仁在處理的這個報告是非常的多還調查世界也都是重大影響交通運輸安全等等的一些事項才會進行調查又是可能是相關的造成傷亡 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
11119.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
11139.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
那時候其實在交通部長陳時凱有提到當然說最好的一個時間是希望3到6個月那可是現在目前來講也首先與這個人力的關係那所以幾乎要到1到3年那所以本席想要這個就交部長在這個行政程序法他有一個51條有一個即時性原則 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
11140.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
11158.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
那如何能夠在運安會的報告在取得重要的一個交通議題的調查中它能夠有階段性的一個資訊揭露機制就是在重大的一些議題上面來講可能初步來講調查的因為同樣的這些許多的事件都是社會大眾所關注矚目的 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
11158.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
11174.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
那在這個階段性的一個機制 揭露的機制那尤其是大概在三個月內中大事件能夠先有一個初步的一個內容那我想請問一下主委在這個機制上目前的安排進度為何目前這個機制實際上應該還算OK因為每個調查 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
11176.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
11202.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
事故的案件進行的過程中都會有一個叫做所謂調查期間的安全通告那麼在事實資料報告公布的時候被調查機關的單位他們都有事先因為他參與一次調查嘛從一開始來參與組織婚婚會議啊參與這個研討找證據的時候他們都在裡面所以他們就是我們一邊調查他一邊也在改善他也都知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
11202.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
11229.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
但是最主要是因為運安會他有公信力在那所以說像這樣子未來來講在重大的這種在調查的事件來講那是不是可以在三個月左右在階段性的揭露那運安會可以有這樣子的機制來回應我們有一個新聞發布的一個處理重要點如果在某一個階段裡面這個案子是屬於社會重大關注的案子那我們會事實被揭露出去 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
11230.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
11248.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
那所以說時間上的話大概是什麼時候它不一定它是每個case都不太一樣那我本席在這裡是希望願會如果社會關注有重大事件其實這個大家都能夠可受公平的那在三個月左右的話能夠有一個初步揭露讓同仁能夠把重點先做一個社會的回應這樣子可以達到嗎這個是可以做得到的OK好 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
11249.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
11272.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
那接下來剛才許多委員都針對ADAS的這種先進駕駛輔助系統還在進行諮詢那本市長要接著問在這個包括後面的一個調查報告要改善的一些過程中那前端在調查資料的時候這些民間的車廠或是他們提供資訊或是配合調查的一個情況有沒有遇到什麼樣的困難 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
11274.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
11299.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
目前還沒有耶所以這些車廠或是民間業者原則上都會配合運安會那在機關的平行聯繫上面來講有時候需要進入約談一些可能要訪談的對象或者是甚至有一些相關的一些技術面的部分甚至有涉及到司法檢調的部分他們也都全力配合運安會嗎目前都OK的都全力配合好那沒關係那我覺得要就教就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
11300.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
11326.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
那各模組尚未完成改善建議的這個部分就這個列表的部分那其實運安會有時候都要承擔一些比較吃虧的就是做出了許多改善建議建議事項那他可能受建議單位不僅是交通部可能包含各部會可能包含縣市政府那他們在配合運安會受建議的改善建議內容他的執行情況如何 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
11328.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
11349.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
這一兩年確實是那個完成率提高很大大概有10%到15%左右可以配合運安會嘛那在於各部會來講的話哪一個部會的配合率最高哪一個部會的配合率難度相較來講也高都還不錯啊交通部最高嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
11351.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
11370.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
交通部就底下就還 你是走部本部還是底下高空局當然是涵蓋啊涵蓋都OK啊好啦沒關係在這裡不要讓你得罪其他部會那本席還是在這裡要提出啦就是還是要建議運安會能夠跟行政院這邊溝通就許多的一個改善建議的單位啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
11370.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
11388.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
他們現在來講在運安會所提出的建議啊那如果他們沒有辦法去配合完成或是他時間有時候配合到修法他需要曠日廢時或是有時候需要配合到計畫的經費來去做類似像機場的改道標籤的設置甚至塔台的重新的調整或是甚至路線的修改那可能曠日廢時 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
11389.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
11404.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
但是沒有辦法結案的這個部分其實都還是列在這個運安會上面那所以說本席還是在這裡先提出就是運安會可以跟行政院還是看如何能夠讓各個部會來配合運安會的一個改善建議那來打 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
11406.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
11429.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
提高這個諮詢率啊不然的話院會畢竟許多的專家學者不管是技術或者是法規但是如果說能夠配合來去修正的進度或者是這個比例來講不夠高的話那其實是非常可惜啊那所以本身還是建議就是主委這邊再加強與其他部會的溝通那至於說其他部會的諮詢率的狀況我下次再跟你談好 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
11430.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
11448.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
其他部位其實並不多耶大概都是交通部比較多對啊大部分因為主要是交通事故啊但是裡面其實有涉及到國防部啊有涉及到內政部等等的也都有啊那所以說這個相關他們要改善的一個情況那如何能夠提高這個比例跟他的實效性 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
11449.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
11478.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
這個行政院每定期都有開一個協調會多久開一次大概半年因為我們會報到他們去嘛那我坦白講半年一次這個間隔太長我坦白講那我很希望說下次可以溝通至少三個月要開一次那不斷縮短吧因為這個畢竟這些重大事故的改善建議都是大家心血的結晶那這個也是必須要改善的事那行政院都有完全在掌握啦要掌握得好 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
11479.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
11487.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
好 OK 謝謝謝謝委員 謝謝謝謝優浩委員請邱若驊委員執行好 謝謝主席 主席請林主委好 應安委林主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
11504.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
11516.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
主委好主委我們先來看到台鐵台鐵的部分那我們先來看到台鐵根據台鐵的資料那台鐵目前營運的它的軌道網路它的全長大概是1065公里那從110年的1億5493萬人次那逐年成長到113年的2億3707萬人次那它成長的幅度很可觀 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
11528.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
11536.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
那我們先看到它全線總共有242座車站那現有的鐵路車輛有4709輛那其中它的牽引用的機車有245輛客車有2973輛貨車有1491輛那由此可見啊 台鐵是無國籍為重要的大眾運輸系統那本席就近期台鐵連續發生多起事故請教主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
11556.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
11578.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
那我們來看到最近有發生無起吊車作業有關的意外事故那首先我們來看到113年12月19號在花蓮他花蓮幾乎斷發生洗車線出軌事件那同一天呢在潮州潮州的基地列車他衝撞他撞了子沖檔的事件那在今年的1月3號 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].start |
11580.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].end |
11589.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].text |
那E500型的自強號在歧獨吊車場他吊車的時候作業的時候發生出軌然後造成8個轉車器損毀那情況相當的嚴重8個轉車器都壓爛了那今年的2月11號呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].start |
11596.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].end |
11621.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].text |
也一樣是潮州集體他吊車的機車與PP自強號發生碰撞那我們看到2月18號在七堵吊車作業發生疏失同樣的他的轉換器都被列車壓爛了那主委台鐵在短短兩個月內發生五起重大吊車意外事故那可見他在吊車的安全作業管理上可能存在問題主委針對這些事故 醫院會有做調查嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].start |
11624.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].end |
11627.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].text |
這七個案子都調查了裡面說的 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].start |
11631.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].end |
11656.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].text |
跟委員報告 吊車案件在我們的法規規定不是我們調查的範圍但是因為我們有發現到陳獨剛委員提到的他在短期之內發生的頻率過高所以我們在今年1月3號發生的七堵站這個出軌事故我們就使用這個霸王條款立案調查那也徹底利用這個案子針對於台鐵目前吊車的狀況包括他的規定管理等等那進行調查 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].start |
11657.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].end |
11679.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].text |
所以這五個事故案件中只有調查一件嗎目前就是以緝毒案這件調查那他目前調查進度公委員報告這個案子我們目前預計在今年的7月發布事實資料報告那會在明年的1月前發布最終調查報告我們用最短的時間把這個報告完成 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].start |
11679.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].end |
11688.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].text |
OK好謝謝您的說明那我們可以說我們可以看到那很顯然的台鐵在他的安全管理上面存在問題那這邊院會是不是要介入 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].start |
11691.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].end |
11717.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].text |
來調查針對這次台鐵他們在半年內發生這麼多起事故因為院安會只調查一件可是他卻很頻繁的那每次看到都是在在七堵然後同樣的是在潮州我們可以類似的案子我們可以去把他追出來然後一次告訴他說你這個類似案子這麼多就像電動車當時也是一樣就類似的一起調查這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].start |
11718.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].end |
11741.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].text |
是可以這樣做是可以這樣做嗎那院會什麼時候會介入調查當然我們也會跟台磊溝通嘛我會一直關注他他就會有壓力好那另外請教主委一個問題那鐵道局在2月14號的時候他也針對冒進號車還有推行運轉推進運轉還有吊車吊車時未採取必要之防護措施還有 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].start |
11742.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].end |
11763.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].text |
同一避涉區間同時運轉兩列以上的列車的問題表示他會加強他的執法力度以強化運轉安全所以你認為鐵道局他這樣的這一次他的加強執法作為足以改善台鐵他們在調度上面管理長期存在的問題嗎確實是有有一些問題你要不要請鐵道組長來答一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].start |
11767.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].end |
11793.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].text |
有關於監理機關對於營運機構他所施予的這一些管理措施那原則上只要能夠改善這個鐵道安全那我們都樂觀其成那我們也尊重監理機關的做法本席認為國家運輸安全應該要主動的積極來協助各級政府他們還有機關他們機構並且幫助他們預防事故的發生那本席在這邊想要向主委反映一個具體的情況我們先來看到影片 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].start |
11796.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].end |
11808.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].text |
我們來看一下我們上山列車山西那就是他現在位置等一下位置然後等一下他上山之後他的山西會不會變幽靈列車我們看一下他會不會變幽靈列車先來看 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].start |
11812.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].end |
11827.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].text |
出不見了一股、二股、三股、九股、一股還有車,還有車不見了,但他不到時候就沒了,他要去叫路到那個基地喔沒了,就這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].start |
11828.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].end |
11855.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].text |
這是發生在一樣是台鐵潮州站那今年3月20號那畫面中我們可以很清楚的看到列車明明還在月台上可是他列車運行的狀況他的監視器的畫面卻沒有顯示那該號次的列車還有他相關的資訊那這個車子後他後續也有進到潮州基地進行檢測作業那照道理說這個列車運行的監視狀況應該要如實反映他的位置還有編號所以您怎麼看 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].start |
11861.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].end |
11875.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].text |
報告委員 剛剛看了這個影片之後因為我們目前沒有收到這一個案子的通報也沒有相關的資訊那是不是懇請委員可以讓我們回去我們再跟台鐵要相關的資料進行仔細的了解 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].start |
11876.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].end |
11895.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].text |
OK請 請院會務必要調查因為這個情況非常的嚴重那主委本席請教您您過去是有擔任民航機關的首長那對於飛行安全事故有高度的專業那還有經驗是飛安領域的專家因此本席想要請教主委那如果雷達上民航機突然出現 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].start |
11896.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].end |
11919.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].text |
訊號消失這個問題是不是非常嚴重非常嚴重非常嚴重那我們剛才看到影片是不是同樣一樣這個這個我們同樣的情況要去關注他對那什麼時候院會什麼時候會介入調查什麼時候會向台鐵來做瞭解我們回去馬上做回去馬上做OK那預計他調查的時間要多長有點 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].start |
11922.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].end |
11938.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].text |
包委員那我等一下回去立刻跟台鐵索取相關的資料那我們來研判整個就是事故的內容有沒有達到我們立案標準那不管有沒有立案調查我們都會針對這件事情做仔細的了解請再提供本席就是相關的調查資料沒有問題准辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].start |
11940.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].end |
11967.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].text |
是 那主委我們剛才看到這影片它就像飛機的擂台一樣 它突然的消失了明明列車還在月台上面可是在它的監控畫面我們卻看不到相關的資訊所以請優安會務必要正視這個情形我們正視 我們正視 確實沒有錯如果沒有及時掌握的話這可能會危及乘客的安全對我們不希望發生事故有發生就是傷及民眾的人身安全還是就是生命財產安全危害到然後我們才來做調查 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].start |
11968.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].end |
11994.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].text |
OK 請院會要積極謝謝主委謝謝主席好 謝謝邱若驊委員請黃建豪委員執行好 謝謝主席 主席我們請院會主委林主委好 林主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].start |
12000.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].end |
12023.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].text |
主委好 主委這個今天針對運安會部分本席有一個疑問我想剛剛前面有一個委員提到說就是列管的改善事故台鐵被列管的改善事件裡面有一項包含就是說列車駕駛是能不能依照運安會的調查報告要求來安裝聲音影像的紀錄器這部分剛好今天我也看到一個報導我想確認一下這今天報導我知道運安會知不知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].start |
12024.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].end |
12052 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].text |
雙鐵的狀況多那交通部長也希望說價值上能夠裝監視器那我想請教一下因為這個案子我想從當年從這個普悠瑪事故之後107年到現在今天這麼多年了那我想你們在去年也提出了相關的修法的一個方向那我想問一下到底目前的狀況卡在哪裡那為什麼後來又被退回來是不是公會的反彈還是有哪裡公眾出現問題所以導致這個檢討報告到目前為止雖然提出了檢討但是實際上 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].start |
12053.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].end |
12076.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].text |
好像要在這個駕駛室來安裝相關的監視影像系統好像有困難是不是主委我們的建議是給鐵道局那鐵道局他當然他有他的考量他跟公衛這邊跟台鐵公衛這邊他們有在溝通他裝這個影音或者是攝影機的這個建議事實上是 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].start |
12077.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].end |
12092.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].text |
事實上是可以可以兼顧個人隱私可以兼顧公共藝術安全兩者都可以兼顧的啦可以達到雙贏的主要你可以有沒有機會在這邊說明一下要怎麼樣做到兼顧的這部分因為當然就我們的了解啦其實國外其他 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].start |
12093.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].end |
12117.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].text |
像比如說法國或比如說日本等等的這些鐵道也發展成發達的國家他們的架子是也是安裝那到底當初他們怎麼溝通或是說他們的做法怎麼樣那在這一次的因為在這個檢討報告裡面你沒有特別提到說怎麼樣面對這個有時候這些工會的成員他們要求所謂隱私的問題那主委你有沒有機會在這邊講一下到底要怎麼樣兼顧安全跟兼顧隱私的部分各位請主委說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].start |
12118.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].end |
12139.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].text |
事實上裝這個記錄器 影音或者是聲音或者是影像的記錄器這個他的目的是要為了事故調查嘛那平常平常沒有人會去看因為他只有錄音錄影就是兩小時嘛那兩小時過後之後他就會覆蓋上去 覆蓋上去那國外或者是我們國內像 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].start |
12141.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].end |
12166.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].text |
像我所了解的像桃園集結他就有裝嘛所以說他裝那個攝像機的那個鏡頭角度什麼他只是局部要有一個角度的限制何況裝了之後要去解讀要把它download下來的人還有一定規範的限制並不是任何人可以去看的所以對個人隱私個人各自方面他是應該是 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].start |
12168.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].end |
12184.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].text |
應該是不會有這個議題但是我們想說鐵炮局他也知道這個要因為這是長久以來這麼幾十年來的要突然這樣改變市紀委員公會他們可能有一些觀念要需要鐵炮局跟他們溝通主委謝謝說明因為這個我想 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].start |
12186.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].end |
12204.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].text |
這段時間來我想不管是剛剛這麼多委員提到是剛剛十幾位委員大家都提到說最近這個雙鐵的不管是台鐵高鐵都好都是的確都有些駕駛個人的問題導致失誤的發生那當然民眾一個這個高鐵或一個台鐵上面的民眾幾百人在上面 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].start |
12205.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].end |
12220.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].text |
所以如果能夠確實的掌握到如果萬一出狀況能夠事後來究責知道真實原因在哪裡我想對民眾的安全也是非常重要那當然知道說你們在第一線溝通的時候的確我遇到工會有些反彈但是我們希望你能夠把 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].start |
12221.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].end |
12248.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].text |
其他國家或其他的這個案例明確的能夠執行的方案能夠提出來來降低這個反彈的聲音要不然如果是僵在這邊你看從107年發生調查完到現在已經又過了這個6年的時間了6年7年時間那中間也發生了其他的事故那這意外發生一次之後都是很多的人命的所以我希望說這個院會能夠去加強跟鐵道局也好或跟工會工會是你們溝通嗎還是鐵道局溝通你們只負責調查而已 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].start |
12249.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].end |
12268.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].text |
鐵道局溝通嗎我們是建議鐵道局可以譬如說他們可以去就剛剛委員講的去國外去美國去加拿大他們都有這個綠定去觀摩可以找公會的人一起去看不是他想像中這樣子完全是保護個人的國外這部分其他國家的執行案例是由你們提供還是鐵道局自己去考察 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].start |
12270.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].end |
12291.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].text |
我說其他國家的案例其他國家怎麼執行這件事情的案例是由你們越南會來提供相關的幕僚資料給鐵道局給交通部還是要由交通部他們自己去調查國外的做法我們有提供資料給他們他們就會去做審備他們去看好謝謝主委那後續等交通部來我再問他那接下來這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].start |
12294.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].end |
12318.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].text |
今年2月有修訂的運輸事故調查法來擴大了重大運輸的這個事故範圍那包含了大家很關心的是電動車啦自動駕駛等等的案例列入但是我要跟主委請教的是說從過去幾年立案調查數量來講的話因為你們應該會有分組嘛航空水路鐵道公路那過去這幾年從2018年的數據到現在來講相對來講公路的立案調查數量是最少的 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].start |
12319.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].end |
12334.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].text |
當然有可能是因為公路的過去的定義比較嚴格或是公路的這個真的屬於重大事故的案例沒這麼多這當然有可能是數據上呈現的結果是這樣子那問題是說你今年二月把這個所謂的電動車也好自動駕駛的這個先進輔助駕駛的系統列入事故調查範圍之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].start |
12336.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].end |
12363.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].text |
這就等於是公路組的業務嘛那你在這個事情上既然把它入法了那我想問一下你的人事分配上面你的公路組有提升嗎還是用G有的人力會不會遇到人力不足的問題主委你講到重點啦就是因為現在新興硬具或者是一些校車電動車出來我們要調查所以公路組現在我們就把其他組都調人力過去再訓練 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].start |
12364.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].end |
12371.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].text |
確實是這樣子沒有錯主委我想跟你確認一下你是說因為你本來是分四組嘛那當然各自有各自的專業你比如說我懂航空的人 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].start |
12372.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].end |
12393.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].text |
過去調查的是這個空難的問題或是非常安全的問題來調查那你現在如果公路的量能要提升你們不是重新招考還是直接內部直接調動而已我們雙管旗下重新我們有缺從外面招進來然後另外我們把鐵套組一個調查官的缺調過去所以你們是緣而有變動嘛那人呢我是講就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].start |
12394.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].end |
12416.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].text |
原格當然會變動嘛原格變動沒問題那我講的是專業人才的部分我們擔心的是專業人今天因為你今天既然二月提了二月到現在也才兩月而已啦其實也是蠻近的我只要講說公路組在這部分的專業的部分人是有沒有提升還有另外一件事情是剛好昨天這個教育委員會在修水AIG本法那未來包含自駕車也好或是包含這個駕駛輔助系統 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].start |
12417.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].end |
12441.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].text |
可能也都是列在所謂AI基本法的這個狀況裡面所以我要問的是運安會有沒有隨著科技的進步去應聘 聘用更多類似的相關專業人才因為這個公路的定義它不是在過去這樣子因為過去可能就是真的是大型的可能遊覽車事故啦或是大型的這種交通事故才是歸你們調查那未來會不會有這個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].start |
12441.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].end |
12468.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].text |
不會 其實剛剛委員講的其實不是只有公路我們其他調查組我們從外面新併進來的考題裡面我們都會跟他講說你對AI的這個都會注入這個議題裡面所以我們也跟著時代科技在進步在與時並進那剛剛講到我們公路組就是因為有些信息抑鬱的事故的發生的案子的增加所以我們人一直在 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].start |
12469.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].end |
12482.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].text |
所以現在我們四個調查模組裡面就是公共家族人最多啊公共組人最多嗎對 因為他的案子會越來越多對啊 我就想擔心這個事情那最後因為時間不夠我最後再跟主委提醒一下我們看到一些數據喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].start |
12484 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].end |
12506.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].text |
這之前的絕賺報告裡面有人提醒到說這個運營會的這個剩餘的經費裡面來講最主要都來自於人事費的結餘那我要給主委一個提醒是說像民航局他們在出勤在各項的這個報案說測試等等的民航局是有一個標準每小時支付多少的金額給這些所謂的這個工作人員 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].start |
12508.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].end |
12537.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].text |
我剛提到運安會這部分因為現在既然有所謂新的科技進來那你公務組也要提升相關的人才那你們每年的這個人事費的剩餘也這麼多相對比較多啦這是決算報告裡面提出的這個提醒那我們期待說如果後續在這公務上面你們是不是也能夠訂一個很明確的終點費的支給表讓真正專業人才能夠替運安會在調查過程裡面來服務主委有沒有可能做到這件事情這個我們的研究看看 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].start |
12538.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].end |
12545.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].text |
你研究完什麼時候研究要研究多久我也就看看因為究竟不太一樣因為他們就有一點類似灰心蝦子的味道 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].start |
12546.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].end |
12574.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].text |
對啊但是今天你們這個你們今天這麼多這個因為你們其實我講真的我剛剛有一個時間沒有講到就是你們人事的這個流動率相對還是比較高啦我們當然希望你們留才啦你既然剩這麼多錢我說你每年都剩這麼多這個經費我們當然期待說彈性運用嘛你要幫人才願意幫你做事情那我覺得相關的這個支付的這個標準應該要定出來不要說都是臨時薪水那大家當然算了下來大家就往航空公司跑或往其他外面的公司跑了嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].start |
12574.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].end |
12594.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].text |
那我們期待說預案會是我們我國唯一的專業的獨立機構在調查這種安全事故那你的人才如果能夠留下來透過我剛提到的像參考民調局的方式我覺得對這些專業人才來講能夠有個佳績你留才才有這個方向不然你這麼多人是不是要做什麼 主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].start |
12595.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].end |
12608.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].text |
我們也希望這樣做但是有相關的規範我們還是要研擬研擬看看啦你提出來我們才能夠研擬你要提出來案子我們才能討論嘛好不好主委你回去研究一下啦可不可以好我們去看看好主委謝謝好謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].start |
12612.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].end |
12634.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].text |
謝謝黃建豪委員鄭振前委員鄭振前委員鄭振前委員不在高金樹梅委員高金樹梅委員高金樹梅委員不在陳冠廷委員陳冠廷委員陳冠廷委員陳冠廷委員不在 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].start |
12636.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].end |
12657.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].text |
葉延之現在請葉延之委員執行請那個主委好 應安會林主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].start |
12663.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].end |
12681.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].text |
問一個那個飛行安全的問題因為前兩天華航啊被人家發現說他有一架飛機是要飛新加坡結果到了越南的外海呢忽然間又返回台灣然後後來是在那個小港機場降落我不知道這主委知道這事嗎我知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].start |
12683.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].end |
12692.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].text |
現在這個問題被大家拿來質疑點就是說有一個機師過去的機師講說華航是不是有可能他是因為單引擎故障 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].start |
12694.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].end |
12715.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].text |
那後來看到華航的聲明 華航的聲明是說因為機師是質疑說華航為什麼不是直接飛往新加坡他那時候從越南到新加坡只要一個小時但是華航卻返回台灣 他也多飛了總共飛三小時 等於是多飛兩小時跟飛到新加坡相比 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].start |
12715.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].end |
12736.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].text |
然後來華航的聲明並沒有否認說他可能是單引擎故障只是講他們是按照標準的作業程序而且經過專業判斷所以回到台灣來做維修我想先跟主委請教一下因為這也跟運輸安全有關啦過去有沒有類似的案例 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].start |
12738.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].end |
12754.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].text |
就是說那個飛機飛到一半的時候忽然間可能單引擎故障或者是其他故障這個case有很多啦比如說飛機上有突發狀況啦有人生病啦我是說單引擎故障啦單引擎故障單引擎故障有啦有沒有類似案例但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].start |
12755.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].end |
12770.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].text |
但是要轉向哪裡是由機師做最後決定有類似案例我們現在的法規有沒有規定說單引擎故障應該要飛往哪個機場法規有沒有規定沒有民航法沒有規定嗎沒有民航法有沒有規定說 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].start |
12772.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].end |
12794.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].text |
當發生單引擎故障的時候 應該要飛往途中的備用機場 或者是有沒有規定那你剛用說沒有不是 他飛行計畫裡面 他會填說我在某一個航點某一個位置上 我的備用機場在哪裡 他有填報民航法有沒有規定有規定嗎 主委你都不清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].start |
12795.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].end |
12816.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].text |
所以民航法有規定說如果發生單引擎故障要飛往目的地盡快飛往目的地或者是途中的備用機場有嗎他飛行計畫都要就停有嗎有那請問一下這個華航的目的地是新加坡對那他在越南的時候去新加坡只要一小時但是回台灣要三小時那這樣有沒有違反民航法規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].start |
12819.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].end |
12840.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].text |
報告委員跟委員報告一下就是一般來講像剛剛林主委講的在飛航途中一定會有一些不正常的情勢發生我是講引擎故障這比較危險的狀況引擎故障這樣子比較高風險的目前在國際航空公司裡面他們都會有一個標準的程序按照民航法然後其中是什麼嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].start |
12841.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].end |
12857.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].text |
是所謂的inflight shutdown 叫空中引擎關車那在這裡面呢 就航空公司在現在的現行規定裡面航空公司他的聯合管制中心要中整所有的包含四項基本上四項大原則 第一項就是安全 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].start |
12857.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].end |
12873.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].text |
我知道我現在問說要飛到哪個機場不要答非所問好不好主委已經答非所問換了一個人來又答非所問所以按照規定他是要飛往新加坡還是要在附近越南的備用機場降落還是要回台灣是按照規定是哪一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].start |
12875.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].end |
12891.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].text |
報委員這個要看當時情況因為今天沒有答案沒關係我繼續問那這台飛機是空中巴士嗎350那空中巴士有沒有原廠的規定空中巴士的規定單引擎故障要盡快飛往最近機場是的 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].start |
12892.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].end |
12917.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].text |
所以如果按照民防法或者是民航法或者是空中巴士感覺上飛回台灣做維修都是蠻奇怪的一件事是不是現在民航局跟我們也在去對那所以你們認為這個有可能因為最後最後是沒有事情啊那那個當然是最好是這樣可是如果萬一發生事情是不是一件算危險的事 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].start |
12918.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].end |
12930.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].text |
所以過去我不知道說因為聽起來好像你們剛剛一開始主委說過去也有發生類似的事情可是回答好像不清不楚所以好像不是把飛航安全當一回事 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].start |
12932.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].end |
12959.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].text |
報告委員這個在國際上除了國際航空其他的航空公司也有發生同樣的情況那他們考量除了安全以外還有旅客的舒適度譬如說你講到旅客舒適度我問你啦他今天從台灣已經飛到越南了再一個小時就到新加坡了所以一個小時他就到目的地結果你又飛回來三小時那你覺得對旅客而言他會希望直接飛到新加坡還是飛回台灣如果你是旅客的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].start |
12960.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].end |
12979.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].text |
當然到新加坡當然嘛所以這事情聽起來都是有問題嘛這個如果有機會的話查一下跟大家講第二個我問一下運安衛因為之前有很多委員包括立法院法治局一直講說你們調查的時間太久主要是因為人力不足啦那現在你們有沒有擴充人力啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].start |
12980.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].end |
12993.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].text |
調查案越快出來其實對於比如說事故的當事人家屬或者是後續的一些法律的問題調查報告越快出來對大家來說越能夠心安嗎那我不知道在增加人力的部分裡面有什麼計畫嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].start |
12995.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].end |
13011.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].text |
我們有要準備擴充整地沒有錯但是現階段我們自己內部先做在一些點地調控總量管理但是如果說我們未來有一些新興的案子出來的時候我們確實會跟人事行政總署來爭取一波 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].start |
13013.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].end |
13040.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].text |
所以好像你感覺沒有一個很具體的答案沒關係 因為我時間關係我最後一個問題因為剛剛我也有聽別委員也有問您啦因為你們現在是有在辦理那個先進駕駛輔助系統或電動車車上調查所以本來你們重大事務調查的範圍喔是說有一二三點嘛第一點是三人以上你們會調查但是因為有加一個第三點情況特殊或新興運具應該就指的是比如電動車或是有自駕的這種嘛那有一個案例是去年六月份的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].start |
13041.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].end |
13062.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].text |
那個時候有一個這個虎尾自撞那他應該是開自動車他應該是開電動車啦那你們說這個報告很快就出來了從去年六月事故到今年二月大概半年多一點時間就公佈了那這個現在你們調查報告是有發現先進駕駛輔助系統有什麼問題嗎我請郭路徐問一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].start |
13070.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].end |
13092.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].text |
跟委員報告這個案子其實是在調查中那我們調查中去發現說這個駕駛其實是並沒有去啟動這個ADAS的一個系統是一個駕駛他自己分心操作所造成的所以你們去調查你一開始因為他是電動車所以你就會先去調查 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].start |
13093.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].end |
13121.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].text |
但是後續發現跟電動車無關你還是會繼續調查然後調查了六到八個月跟大家說跟電動車無關這樣你們調查報告是這樣子嗎跟委員報告你們如果能力不足的話你如果能力不足的話應該把能力放在比較充分的地方啦好不好 好 謝謝好 謝謝委員謝謝葉言之委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].start |
13122.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].end |
13151.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].text |
鍾嘉斌委員鍾嘉斌委員鍾嘉斌委員不在請張祺凱委員執行請安安會林主委好 應安會林主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].start |
13154.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].end |
13179.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].text |
好 各位好 主委最近這四月十三號啊 特訓飛去新加坡這個章魚機場這次飛去出事 已經過了一萬年了我只有兩個非常重要 不只要立案趕快調查第一個你今天要非常明確的宣示 因為人命關天這個事件啊 當初十三號一陣飛機上有181個乘客 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].start |
13183.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].end |
13205.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].text |
181條人命 還包括所有這個機組員這事情要非常非常的謹慎非常謹慎 而且你們剛剛都提到了 以前都有類似的這個案子嘛這次你要記取教訓 我先跟你講一個最重要的他違反非常多的規定 第一航空器飛行作業管理規則第76條 來 主委你看一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].start |
13209.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].end |
13238.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].text |
如果有發生單邊的發動機失效最久的航行時間是多久六十分鐘對不對它是不是嚴重違反它明明有一個可以在一小時內可以降落的地方而且是它本來設定的目的地耶結果一步就來嚴重違法違反規定再一步就來修改這是第一個非常嚴重的缺失跟違法 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].start |
13239.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].end |
13261.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].text |
對不對 是不是很嚴重 注意嚴重違法 很嚴重 對不對 這是第一項第二個也很嚴重啊飛機起飛一定有備用機場嘛 對不對 有沒有那天的備用機場在哪 目的地來 目的地是新加坡的章魚機場 那個備用機場那天有幾個 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].start |
13265.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].end |
13282.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].text |
他有好幾個好幾個備用的這個機場啊台北我去三處了第一個台北第二個香港第三個馬尼拉第四個遠港第五個福寺牆第六個新加坡第七個吉隆坡沒有小港機場啊這個很嚴重啊你最基本的飛行的這個導引 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].start |
13291.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].end |
13314.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].text |
你之前就做了一個備用機場了你全部都不用你怎麼會跑到小港機場呢這第二 是不是很嚴重對嘛 對不對第三個 剛才你在說國際上怎麼公判呢雙引擎的飛機如果發生單引擎失效第一件事情 其實 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].start |
13315.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].end |
13320.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].text |
最近的嘛所以最合適的嘛這種卡塔富士也要安全嘛 對不對怎麼連這個最基本的都沒有好那這個國際的這個規範是怎麼規範如果飛機的狀態或者飛行受到影響有可能使得飛機變得不安全馬上就要在最近的地方選擇最近的最合適的馬上就要下來他沒有做這件事情第二 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].start |
13345.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].end |
13368.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].text |
剩餘的這個燃料不足也要趕快去處理這是另外一個問題了那天的飛機你的燃料夠嗎你本來四個小時的飛機這樣過去對不對你本來預定到新加坡是7點鐘嘛你冒著燃料不足的這個狀況這又是另外一個危險了 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].start |
13372.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].end |
13395.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].text |
另外一個指引如果天氣或者飛行環境或者附近有可以使用的你就不能飛太遠的地方這些都是國際上的指引嘛所以你看我一路上這樣下來一路練過來這事情嚴不嚴重所以很嚴重對不對是好所以我具體的這個要求我具體的要求第一個應安會 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].start |
13397.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].end |
13420.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].text |
對這個嚴重的飛航事件要立即做立案的這個調查 這是第一個馬上立案調查OK 主委OK嗎因為這個民調局已經在調查中了我們會請他提供我們的粗暴資料而且今天就應該很嚴正的說明我應該是第一個把你所有的缺失 包括違法違規危險性都講很清楚了 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].start |
13421.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].end |
13447.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].text |
對不對你認為很危險嘛 對不對所以不只立案調查也要快而且要很嚴正的聲明這種事情不能再發生這攸關人命好不好第二個你要去要求民進黨參照美國聯邦航空條例FAA的這個規定訂出一個更明確的我們今天有些規範啊可是你剛剛一直在講安全的同時你說有國際的這個規範嘛 對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].start |
13449.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].end |
13472.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].text |
依照FAA定一個更明確的規範跟國際是要接軌的好不好這是第二個可以做嗎可以嗎可以喔第三要求民進黨要盡快對外界的這個餘力要釐清而且做一個明確的規範而且要跟時間賽跑要盡快好不好不然我們現在質詢的心聲有類似的個案又在發生啦好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].start |
13474.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].end |
13497.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].text |
所以這個案子不要拖延好不好因為這個案子目前在網路上面跟論壇上面引起已經燒起來了啦已經整體燒起來了不要讓這把火再繼續燒了要讓人民可以安心而且做一個有能力解決問題的政府應安會若是說請我去買就說你速度太慢嘛利用這個機會 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].start |
13499.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].end |
13521.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].text |
跟時間賽跑 做出成績來 好不好保障某一位去搭飛機的人這個安全 好不好是好 這位老店 跟時間賽跑 交換好 謝謝好 謝謝委員 謝謝謝謝張祺凱委員好 謝謝登記委員已軍花言完畢 作以下決定一 報告及答詢完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].start |
13524.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].end |
13544.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].text |
二委員在執行中要求提供相關書面資料或未答詢部分請應安會及相關機關儘快以書面答覆所以今天謝謝各位議會的官員跟媒體朋友我們本日會議結束上會謝謝 |