| IVOD_ID |
165961 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165961 |
| 日期 |
2025-11-27 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-4-19-12 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期經濟委員會第12次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
12 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
19 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
經濟委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期經濟委員會第12次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-11-27T10:06:38+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-11-27T10:18:45+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:12:07 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/0f4b7ea395815859c04b42b1138594f4bd93e540dfe0040e432a9691d58560b2f1956145e7c495575ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
張啓楷 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:06:38 - 10:18:45 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-11-27T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期經濟委員會第12次全體委員會議（事由：審查：
一、 本院委員賴瑞隆等17人擬具「森林法部分條文修正草案」案。
二、 本院委員陳冠廷等18人擬具「森林法增訂第八條之一條文草案」案。
三、 本院委員蔡易餘等17人擬具「森林法部分條文修正草案」案。
四、 本院委員馬文君等19人擬具「森林法增訂第八條之一條文草案」案。
五、 本院委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等18人擬具「森林法第二條及第十五條條文修正草案」案。
六、 本院委員伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe等17人擬具「森林法第十七條之二及第五十六條之三條文修正草案」案。
七、 本院委員盧縣一等16人擬具「森林法第九條之一及第十五條條文修正草案」案。
八、 本院委員游顥等25人擬具「森林法增訂第八條之一條文草案」案。
九、 本院委員黃仁等29人擬具「森林法第十五條條文修正草案」案。
十、 本院委員羅廷瑋等16人擬具「森林法第二條、第十七條之二及第五十六條之三條文修正草案」案。
十一、 本院委員陳亭妃等16人擬具「森林法部分條文修正草案」案。
十二、 本院委員林岱樺等16人擬具「森林法增訂第八條之一條文草案」案。
十三、 本院委員楊瓊瓔等26人擬具「森林法第二條及第十五條條文修正草案」案。
十四、 本院委員張雅琳等19人擬具「森林法部分條文修正草案」案。
(第十三及第十四案如未接獲院會交付審查之議事處來文，則不予審查) (僅詢答)） |
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請張祺凱委員質詢請陳部長叫林保守的林署長我們請部長跟署長 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
33.32 |
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我一開始執行的題目啊 跟台南的陳亭輝 高雄的林黛樺是一樣的我自己就是三區的鄉親 包括最近中天民間特徵主義都來投訴說的問題就是他們世世代代住在山區 |
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53.263 |
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結果啊 已經墾戶 現在變成爛墾戶了政府強拆他們的房子 要他們還地還逼出了人命 逼死了這個人命剛才伯弟說要看禁錮 我給你看他們站的禁錮來看上一張 上一張上一張這是清朝啊 光是年間的這個資料阿公的阿公那時候他們就在這邊開墾了政府 清朝的政府 |
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82.701 |
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發了證明給他們 你看 這是民眾給的 那個下一張在上一張那個 剛才看的是清朝對不對 嘉慶軍由台灣嘉慶軍五年的時候 開墾的時候 更借的那個地址 那個文件 他們都拿出來看啊再下來 日據時代明治35年啊這資料都有在啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
108.137 |
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你剛講去看杭仗圖當然當然也是一個我更要進一步的跟部長跟署長提醒以前的政府怎麼處理這件事你看看啊變成總統的時候他不只沒有拆沒有去拆房子耶沒有要你還地耶他是接見嚴肯戶在陳水扁當總統的時候馬英九當總統的時候都沒有這些事情喔 |
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158.488 |
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包括剛才在說的 到管政府在管這個事情的時候 也沒問題啊後來移交到了農業部 遺憾的事情就發生了剛委員會再提醒 財政部的國有財產署 他的認定標準都比你還寬鬆所以齊凱 今天是我們的山區的一些鄉親 他用血淚在控訴 都逼出人命了 |
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159.793 |
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所以齊凱今天很沉重的提了幾個很明確的這個呼應來我們看我們的建議現在很嚴重的就是有些房子被拆了房子被拆 能不能先暫緩停拆 |
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174.434 |
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191.032 |
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另外呢 要制度性去解決問題 都去補了跟內政部 你跟對岸政府要成立一個跨部會的小組趕快把它共同處理 我剛才說的人家歷史的文件都拿出來了把它做個整理 分類去管理另外做一個嚴懇部的一個調查的一個清澈另外給一個很強烈的建議 |
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192.473 |
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219.743 |
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歷史的事情要有時間來處理阿旁邊這台北市那一尊違建的問題很嚴重啊所以那時候建立了一個制度民國83年以前的列管以後就緩拆了到現在都沒拆全國用的都是這個標準那個林署長我特別請你上來你算是我看過的文官裡面比較有溫度的比較文化的在處理這個事情的時候不要只有看到林保 |
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221.314 |
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249.942 |
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人命是人命關天特別是一個文明的社會就是對弱勢者對年長者的照顧要越好這些人真的是非常弱勢我以前都沒讀書啊我們爸爸阿公的師弟他們都沒讀書連水電都沒有啊所以要用更柔軟的心去幫他們好不好這個我就做了四點建議好不好部長我們就先這個要給你們時間我知道因為今天要審這個森林法而且這個事情人命關天最明確的我是要求 |
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250.922 |
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275.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
先不要拆 要去整體去處理另外我提一個點也很重要你現在行照圖去看你會發現有些地方可能跟原來不一樣所以你就去拆它嘛可是你們出了一個很大問題喔它說有徵件那你全部怎麼 房子全部都拆掉咧你要拆頂多拆那個徵件的部分喔而且你如果徵件的是那房子那麼古老 古早期的那一齣它有時候是為了安全耶 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
277.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
303.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
好不好 從寬去認定 好不好這個事情我都做了監理 請去幫他們好不好 保證給我處理好 接下來問一個很重要的事情一樣是土地生意的就是工地放領那總統啊 這幾天說到說工地啊 要開始要放領這個事情可能要進一步去推動了我先注意到一個點非常奇怪 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
304.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
329.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
我先問你 我們的榮保是什麼時候開始事辦什麼時候開始正式的實施78年你看右邊 那你總統怎麼這樣說總統說他做行進一年時間推動改革啊只要是切實從事榮作不管是擁有農地或者是租的就可以參加榮保 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
333.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
349.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
對 我們那時候 現在就是說過去農保一定要有農地那現在只要是實際耕作者他如果被證明是有實際耕作者 有租地的話也可以成為農保對嘛 這72年七月一號正式實施嘛 對不對啊我們的中度當期當中107啊蛤 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
353.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
377.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
民國七十八年七月一號就開始實施了嘛那是農保那是農保對嘛我們總統快點說他在行政年限去推動這個農保那個是實際耕作的以前的農保是要有耕地要有土地那在一百零七年的時候我們就開放了民國七十八年的七月一號 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
379.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
405.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
農保在74年的10月24號事辦嘛對不對78年7月要正式實施開辦的時候是什麼就包括租地的人就可以辦農保委員你這邊可能資訊有誤喔我剛才說的78年開辦農保是一定要有土地然後107年的時候我們是說只要是口頭約只要租地是實耕者就可以加入農保那是後來放寬的部分是在107年這是我在問過 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
409.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
414.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
農保應該問農業部會比較清楚問農業部應該會比較清楚我剛才說的嘛主管計劃是我們開放的口頭約只要你有實際耕作者也可以稱它農保是107年 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
428.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
435.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
我另外問一件問題 第一牽扯到農民的福利 第二個最近總統是不是常講錯話沒有啊 這個沒有啊 這個沒有講錯話因為107年 講到2527年跟兩年後 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
443.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
473.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
北京政府當局就要完成武統台灣引起天然大波他自己昨天在總統府的新聞稿裡面還在進一步去改我說這個是不是也是一個口誤呢我們的農民包括如果是用租的在民國78年7月1號107年好沒關係我去問老保那邊主管機關是農業部農業部我們承辦的時候107年所以你的意思是總統當行政院長的時候推動的嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
474.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
499.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
口頭約是總統當選人推動的啊 沒有錯啊對啊 可是也不是他任內受的啊第一個78年 這個把它查清楚啦第一個是不是他講錯話 把它進一步查清楚我就很負責任的講說是107年 我們沒有講錯話所以我說你的資訊是有誤的啊好 是不是78年就開始有 這個我們要進一步來追了好不好78年是農保開辦 107年是開放口頭約就是實耕者可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
500.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
523.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
然後租房租的像工地放領現在在租了這個租的部分租的部分就是107年啊好 這個我們進一步去追啦因為我從勞保局那邊我們的同仁去追的是這個好不好沒關係啦接下來我要問一個很重要的啦工地放領很多民眾應該是贊成的可是不要又變成幫光設置光電開了一個後門所以我具體做幾個呼籲齁做幾個建議來我們看我們的這個建議 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
530.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
547.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
工地放零是土地的正義可是不要變成是光電開貨門他一定要有一個嚴格的限制就是你工地放零到後來應該漏死他是農地農業所以請農業部要很注意這個事情因為總統講完之後內政部已經開始在作業了嘛所以部長這段時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
550.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
563.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
包括漁電共生我跟委員報告工地放領跟漁電共生是兩件事情我們絕對不會說為了光電而去搞這個工地放領 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
565.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
588.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
因為工地放領事本來就有的政策然後透過這些政策可以讓有一些已經成豬的部分能夠有機會擁有自己的土地這個是我想是您說的這土地正義嘛但是不要把它直接連結到光電因為光電是兩件事情這段時間非常多的媒體啊跟那個社團已經出來呼籲了不要變成開貨門既然你也保證說不會開貨門就是要請你明確的去規範好不好這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
594.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
622.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
這沒有什麼好規範的啦工地放領之後又沒開了貨門民眾馬上就會看得到因為漁電共生有漁電共生本身的政策跟他的實施的申請的要件跟審查的機制嘛這兩件事情是不一樣的啊不是只有漁電共生啦就是你的工地放領以後這個農地以後是不是一定是農地農用我們贊成農地農用嘛可是不要弄成上面又去潑了光電板你要做防範嘛不是不是那你說不會部長你說不會我們就等著看 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
622.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
639.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
我說這是兩件事情喔我說這是兩件事情因為工地放年以後它變成私有財產的時候它如果符合光電的設置要點它這樣可以申請啊這是兩件事情喔跟現在目前所有的光電政策它不能把它攪在一起啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
639.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
664.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
那麼多的寫者專家已經是在提醒你就是說現在你工地換零是為了農地農用嘛對不對對啊那你就一定要弱死農地農用如果弄到後來很多去開了貨門一定是農地農用我們絕對不會因為 人民就會譴責你是我今天很明確的要求保定注意不要工地換零以後變成是弄到後來弄了很多光電板人民會注目而且真的這樣做的話會被譴責來最後問一個最簡單的因為謝玉鳳在趕時間啦那個廚藝的那個問題齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
670.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
674.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
除以養豬到底要會不會禁止 你在25號說本週要確定對不對 26號又說下個禮拜 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
678.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
705.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
到底要不要禁止我想這個禮拜的部分我們大原則大概已經確定大概因為防疫的關係我們大概會先禁用家戶廚餘但是廚藝養豬必須要有一個過渡所以我們也大方向我們會有一個落日但是這個落日要怎麼去讓這個豬農有時間去做一個轉型那這個部分因為牽扯到很多食物的執行細節所以家用的會禁止就對了 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
707.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
722.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
對 家用的廚藝是風險最高的是風險最高的餐廳的事業廚藝可能一段時間會引起 可是會有訂個購置就對了對 我們會有一個如果大方向是這樣子的那我們還會跟地方政府做一個有效的溝通OK 好 這是很重要的決定OK 好 謝謝謝謝謝謝張親愛委員長 |