| IVOD_ID |
165799 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165799 |
| 日期 |
2025-11-24 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-4-26-12 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
12 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
26 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
社會福利及衛生環境委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-11-24T12:51:52+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-11-24T13:01:21+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:09:29 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/f813cb5f76f78103ca5b2205c133d19a408e1b0d34147d14c138493249f8885807ad918d6d5f52c65ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
葉元之 |
| 委員發言時間 |
12:51:52 - 13:01:21 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-11-24T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12次全體委員會議（事由：邀請環境部部長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。
邀請環境部部長就「聯合國第30屆氣候峰會之後台灣氣候治理方向與如何提升台灣『氣候變遷績效指標』名次，落實2050淨零排放路徑策略」進行專題報告，並備質詢。
【業務報告及專題報告綜合詢答】） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
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主席好 麻煩請環境部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
16.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
41.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
我們現在關心一下高雄垃圾山事情因為那一個廠商原本是民進黨里長後來被開除黨籍就是民進黨都覺得他做一些很違反黨域的事情那他是四年有13次違規的堆置然後他堆置廢棄物還引發兩次火災但是他卻可以一直營業然後他被裁罰了總共六七萬居然十萬塊錢賴皮不繳 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
43.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
51.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
我問一下 這個當然部長你會說這是高雄市政府的事情啦但是你作為一個最高的環境的主管機關你覺得看到這樣的事情你覺得會不會很離譜 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
52.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
80.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
這當然很離譜啊這個但是我們還是要依法行政啦然後我會再了解一下他為什麼不叫你覺得很離譜嘛然後依法行政就代表說現在的法好像已經沒有辦法符合現狀了嘛那中央就應該從制度性的做一些改變啦我們有要修廢清法好那現在喔這一個案件大家覺得誇張的是他的模式是這樣啦就是他租了一個鐵皮屋廠房嘛然後當作垃圾的站置區然後趁大家不注意的時候又把垃圾偷盜到越視界嘛是這樣嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
81.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
95.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
那這其實也凸顯一個管理上的問題啦其實這應該是全國性的問題就是說他們去申請那個執照很容易然後申請執照然後這個不換的違規又說沒有關係可以繼續的營業然後罰單可以不繳然後 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
98.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
122.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
所以還可以隨便找什麼轉運站然後隨便找一個轉運站就可以堆置垃圾然後再找機會去偷盜然後他去挑全國各縣市哪個縣市管理比較鬆嘛當然你會說那高雄管理比較鬆這不是中央的問題那高雄鬆不鬆那就是高雄的問題但是在制度上一定是可以改變啊否則的話為什麼會會出現這個情況呢所以您說要修廢清法修了之後就可以改善嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
123.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
148.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
第一個是加重刑責第二個是我們會透過自由智慧維力的方式明年開始會啟動像這樣的話會抓得更快會抓得更快現在等於是說要有一個時間差要去看那對於這種那對於這個清運業者 清除業者因為他申請執照很容易嘛然後他到底這些垃圾去哪裡感覺上好像一開始沒有辦法防避嘛你現在都是事後嘛就是他偷盜之後嘛我現在講的是在事先的管理面 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
149.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
166.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
管裡面的話當然就要對這些清除業者要加強他的這個管控那你剛才講過他的罰則並沒有很好的不是罰則 罰則是事後啦我是講說因為其實本來制度上就有一些事前的管制譬如說GPS啊或者是各種做法但現在看起來 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
167.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
195.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
看起來沒有用嘛所以我覺得環境部是不是可以討論一下就這些清除業者的管制上不能讓他這樣子隨便偷盜這個因為現在包含了最近的廚餘也需要已清的業者來清理那當然已清的業者只有清除業者我們必須也要再重新一些思考能夠能不能更有效的管理這個是第一個第一個問題就是我覺得不能都推給高雄啦因為當然高雄最近問題很多這也不是我們今天在立法院要講啦但是中央應該是要 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
196.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
222.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
站在一個制度面看看就跟地方討論一下說現在的管理到底出了什麼問題明明機制在那邊就是會有那麼多不但漏洞不過還是就是想做壞事的人他就偷雞摸狗做這些事情這是我們一定要但是我剛舉的那個案例你都覺得很誇張啊13次違規然後兩次火災然後還可以繼續營業這真的很奇怪啦齁那第二就是台南現在垃圾山火災的事情相信部長你也都很清楚嘛剛剛很多人在問啦齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
223.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
245.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
那我首先我有兩個問題第一個喔這個事情因為火災的地方是一個原本的軍營嘛是環保局借來非製風災的佔置物然後引發火災那事後裁罰的話如果找不到到底是誰中火的話搞不好自燃還是怎麼樣我不知道你有掌握火災發生原因嗎目前這還在調查當中那到時候如果 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
246.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
276.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
找不到調查找不到火災的發生原因的話他就是處罰行為就是處罰就是可以規則的行為人就是台南市環保局啊環保局要自己開罰自己那求援兼裁判那這個部分要環境部要怎麼去監督呢這個以前有太多這樣的案例了要自己罰自己那自己罰自己當然就罰最輕啊因為台南市那個環保局以前在110年的時候也發生類似案子案子啊後來就罰幾千塊那環境部都沒有角色 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
278.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
301.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
這個是屬於罰者完全沒有角色當然我們自己罰自己罰個最輕然後還累犯然後這個環境部都也不關心然後也沒有角色不會啦報告委員這個是一個意外啦意外意外發生我們當然不希望他可以發生那所以我們未來會對於這種所謂的這種戰志的這個場我們是不是來做一個通盤的檢討要不要更好的規範這是我們未來要做的那現在總共類似這種戰志場多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
304.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
313.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
這個有一個叫野埋場那這個戰智場台南我記得這次是風災後特殊的意外有三個全國多少那嘉義的應該清掉了你有沒有回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
315.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
336.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
因為這個佔滯場有的就是我們的規劃說都是放在掩埋場裡面佔滯所以如果真的是放在外面我們這裡的資料大概是七個七個因為風災之後去佔滯七個台南這是其中一個台南本身就有三個那你們對於佔滯場管理是怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
338.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
353.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
目前因為他站置的時間原來規劃的不是太長那所以就是怕去化太慢了嗎就是有一些警衛在那裡看這個環境部也要有一個監督的機制不然放在那邊如果不是發生火災搞不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
354.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
374.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
就在那邊 堆在那邊天荒地老啊所以這個管理的問題啦 好不好 再加強一下好像部長是太辛苦了 所以感冒是不是我最後一個問 因為我看到這個台南的火災事件之後附近的居民很憂心啊 就問一個問題就是說裡面有沒有被丟石棉瓦 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
375.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
396.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
那個我剛剛他們那個有查證明是沒有石棉瓦沒有石棉瓦 其他的有啦所以網友可以那石棉瓦就是風災那個有很多屋頂啊什麼被摧毀了你石棉瓦你分離是不是你把石棉瓦拿到另外一個地方去堆置是不是石棉瓦有特別堆置的沒有做這個分離的動作是不是 有有有 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
398.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
423.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
沒有 那網友比較放心但是 石棉網大家會特別問 是因為石棉它石棉網完整是沒問題但是它如果破裂的話就會引發剛剛可以看到就是很多癌症的問題石棉纖維嘛 吸進去然後石棉其實它你們在處理這個也有一個我覺得也有一個問題跟剛剛我們討論差不多就是它現在你沒辦法焚化嘛對不對你現在是要用什麼方式去去化 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
424.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
447.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
呃他首先第一個是要把他破碎固化掩埋啦要把他固化掩埋固化掩埋只能夠掩埋那掩埋是最終處理方式嗎請問一下我們現在有幾個實棉的最終處理的掩埋場有三個場三個場好那三個場因為我們可以看一下現在環境部要做這個事情的時候我覺得他 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
448.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
472.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
因為風災的關係喔 像比如說以台南來講的話它就有54709棟當然不是每一個都有遇到風災有破損啦但是它產生的量一定會增加嘛一定會增加 全台灣是24萬棟那有一個數據 其實看得非常清楚就是之前環境部說要解決失眠這個問題的時候因為沒有風 那時候沒有風災 112年所以處理的量就是少 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
473.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
495.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
113年開始就開始變多114年因為這個數據統計到七月底所以比較少我相信如果統計到今年底的話因為有遇到七月以後的風災一定大量可是大家現在就會懷疑說我們到底有沒有足夠的量可以去處理這些失眠像你剛剛講有三個掩埋場那個量夠嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
497.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
524.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
因為第一個我們現在50萬噸50萬噸是沒有壞的然後現在這次大概壞了一兩萬噸左右那一兩萬噸去處理這個是沒有問題然後每年有一個固定去化的量我們預估是沒有問題你確定沒有問題沒有問題那我們現在正在研發這種所謂的熱處理的方式把它化學把它的體積變小所以目前也正在研發當中我們希望未來沒有問題那你在追蹤處理之前你也是用站置對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
525.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
554.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
呃 他暫時 實面是暫製嘛實面有暫製好 那請問一下實面專屬於實面暫製廠全國有幾個呃現在大量的就是在晨曦然後大多數 大概幾個 直接請請這個實面的處理的最終廠會直接發生的時候他馬上就運走所以其實有一個流程在那邊好 那 那如果是暫製的話會不會出現台南火燒垃圾山的狀況呃 實面就是隔熱不可燃防火啊對 還那麼大家會喜歡或者是說其他的 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
556.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
566.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
對 環境破壞的方式會不會不會不會他其實就用太空包包在那個地方然後就有侵略者來把他運走好 那因為實名大家很關心啦所以我覺得不會不會好 謝謝好 謝謝 |