| IVOD_ID |
165749 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165749 |
| 日期 |
2025-11-24 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-4-35-17 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期外交及國防委員會第17次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
17 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
35 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
外交及國防委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期外交及國防委員會第17次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-11-24T09:22:46+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-11-24T09:33:53+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:11:07 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/f813cb5f76f78103fc775d9111cd00720652d1d50d7223a572a482d9327719e91cf611dc18aaa0c55ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
陳永康 |
| 委員發言時間 |
09:22:46 - 09:33:53 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-11-24T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期外交及國防委員會第17次全體委員會議（事由：邀請國家安全局、外交部報告「日本首相高市早苗『台灣有事說』及『安保三文件修正』對區域安全及台海穩定的情勢研析」，並備質詢。） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
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主席有請外交部次長以及國安局副局長兩位兩位請 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
16.972 |
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33.628 |
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两位首长好这个大家都承受了这个很大的压力面对国际动态局势的变化那么听取了今天双方啊有一些很深入的报告我这边提出一个建言第一个我们跟日方的沟通啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
34.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
51.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
不要用台湾有事用台海有事台海是一个怎么讲一个是泛战略性的议题就说台海有事是中共出招台湾有事对中共来讲是外力介入所以用台海有事台海的范畴没有明确的定义 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
52.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
73.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
但是台湾有事就变成属于管辖权主权问题就特别复杂了所以第一个用台海有事当台海有事的时候它会链接到南海东海甚至到朝鲜半岛台湾海峡每天通过的货柜运输量占全球的25% |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
75.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
80.506 |
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那麼這個經濟的量在海線交通上佔全球的15% |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
84.448 |
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110.786 |
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台海有事 中国大陆也有事为什么呢中国大陆在长江外面的阳山港舟山群岛除了战略除油以外阳山港是全世界最大的货柜码头它一个阳山港的吞吐量超过美国所有港口的总和一年进出的货柜4730万个货柜 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
113.092 |
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138.516 |
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这个货柜又占了中国大陆吞吐量进口40%台海占全球25%这个25%里面有到台湾有到日本到韩国到中国大陆但中国大陆又占了进口的40%这个支持它的一带一路如果台海有事中国的一带一路也受损所以用这种方式来函结没有赢家 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
139.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
159.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
如果起冲突大家都是输家所以要维持区域性的和平对等跟友善的盟邦对话这是很重要的另外就是说我想两个单位除了看了这个中方的这个威责恐吓的言辞以外还有日本的论述以外 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
161.124 |
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187.114 |
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我们对对话过程还有中间谈话的过程除了文件内容以外请问两单位有没有对政治思想或者是心理学去判断他们谈话的心态我给您看一下这个照片国际谈判除了事后分析谈话的内容以外聚焦四个重点眼神方向 嘴部表情 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
188.393 |
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215.132 |
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脸部表情嘴角的示意肢体的距离你看左边上面这个习大大在看这个高市首相的时候我看你怎么说那高市首相是顾左右言他一个是用硬实力去压对方一个是说我有软实力你在看右下角这个图你看这个川普总统说我看你说什么那 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
216.263 |
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229.615 |
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这个高市首相是说你想听什么因为川普总统啊是说我用锐实力但是呢首相说我有韧实力所以在这种国际情势中间呢政治是在务虚 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
230.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
256.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
产业经济是要务实国家力量是靠整合最后是要发挥任实力今天这个谈提到了日本在日本政府在2022年修订了保安三文件安保三文件第一个国家安全保障战略它的英文版就是国家安全战略national security strategy然后国家防卫战略 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
258.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
285.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
防卫力量准备计划这三个跟美国实际上1986年的高尼法案是一样的美国有国家安全战略然后有国防战略美国在2017年把它的四年期国防总检取消了QD取消了改成四年发行一本国家安全战略然后军事战略我们国家我一直本席一直在强烈建议我们政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
287.196 |
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300.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
国家安全法是反渗透防止别人对我们的内部破坏跟国家安全战略毫无关联国家安全战略最主要是整体国家利益做跨部会整合的 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
301.567 |
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319.476 |
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表述最主要是基于你的国家安全战略对于你的国家核心利益外国政府有一个明确的了解这个我们在任何场合都建议我们政府在这个任内一定要推出我们的国家安全战略那我们目前还在学习美国的QDR |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
320.938 |
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343.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
从上一个版本43页对国家安全战略里面的言辞只有1.5页4年后今年出的版本变成59页了对国防讲了大概4页国防报告书也增加了从4页变6页但是这个相对跟我们的友邦友好国家跟日本比起来差太多了 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
344.437 |
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363.371 |
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日本有韩国有这个当然美国是原企英国澳洲都有所以我们这个方面一定要有一个发展出的战略不然呢就说跨部会的协商就会产生出弱点那我请教一下这个自由开放印太是哪一年开始的FOIP这没关系啊这个 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
375.284 |
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384.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
習近平在2013年啟動了一個他的所謂的大戰略就是一帶一路原來叫OBOR後來叫BRI |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
386.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
413.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
那美国在川普总统在2017年就启动了自由开放印太作为对应但是这个FIP完了以后他觉得不够他又成立一个亚太经济机构就是IPAF那都是有对应性的东西那从这个结果我们去看下一张我们对所有的论述就是日方的立场日本的态度日方解义他的意涵 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
414.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
436.568 |
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来看中国大陆他的立场他的态度他的行动这是分析的方法论我们通常都是写一篇报告就是有点像战斗文学但是没有结构性的分析那这个图你可以看到日国人的态度他认为国家存亡及经济发展的关键在台海安全 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
437.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
463.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
台海不要讲台湾那如果台湾的贸易经济受损是全世界都受伤因为你的晶圆进口输出料配件输出你的电力中断所以用台海取代台湾问题这是一个比较好的比较宽容的方法跟所有的友邦接那中国大陆至于呢他不容外界干涉了他这个讲话我们看看就好那再看下一张那 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
465.097 |
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493.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
这个日向高市它的安保东西修正的东西这就是我刚刚提出的我们要建议我们的政府在这个任内一定要公布我们的国家安全战略那才有国防战略那要把QDR四年期总减改成国防战略最后才是你的军事战略那提升GDP我们每个国家的总和不一样那有自己的因素这里面有美方的反应有中方的反应 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
496.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
505.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
最后就是讲到第一岛链是拒止中共军事向外扩张的一个重要防线美日安保条约是必要的军事合作法规 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
506.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
534.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
我们中华民国在台湾是不能缺席的地缘战略的枢纽但是高市对这个话讲出来有什么影响呢比较加剧了中日之间的猜疑增添了美国大国竞争中的变数也牵动了台海和平稳定的复杂程度所以我们的一个回补修正的建议就是说不提台湾问题而用台海问题是比较容易解套的 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
535.109 |
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562.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
另外一个就是说封锁台海是一个意识上的名词它并没有blockade zone的范围涵盖所以说它可能用的是cursive quarantine用微折的这个临检它不需要封锁因为现在每一条船根据这个IMO的你的这个要求都有你的国旗你的数码装载从哪到哪都可以知道所以在海上要拦检是很容易根本不需要 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
563.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
591.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
宣布的封锁所以我们的方法做到和平发展的国家目标以及国际社会的共同期待原则和平必战战备胜战而且要能战止战那做法就是国防民生合一维持两岸对话交流参与国际有盟的机遇我拿这些东西作为像这个次党跟副局长做一个建言我看看是不是请教一下这个次党您给我们一些回应 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
598.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
626.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
報告委員我想你的說法跟我其實是我的說法跟你都一直很類似的我去歐洲在談的我現在其實都不是談說幫忙台灣而是怎麼樣台海的和平穩定安全是大家共同的利益所以大家要盡力去維護台灣的共同利益因為就國際關係就外交上的現實他們為什麼要幫我們有時候也講說沒有那個理由所以共同維護台海利益就是符合那個委員講的我一直說 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
627 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
641.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
朝著發走謝謝委員的建議謝謝副局長這邊您謝謝委員那剛委員提的這個觀點很感謝委員提出來的指導事實上我們看到國際聲稱很多包括美國歐盟 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
642.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
667.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
日本相關的美盟國家都強調台海和平的穩定跟至關重要至關國際的一個重要所以呢這個部分是符合現在的一個趨勢也把台海穩定相對保障了我們台灣的安全所以這個部分後續我們會按照這樣的一個論述來去做密切的觀察國際情勢的變化謝謝委員指導謝謝大家共同努力謝謝主席 |