| IVOD_ID |
165686 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165686 |
| 日期 |
2025-11-20 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-4-15-11 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期內政委員會第11次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
11 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
15 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
內政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期內政委員會第11次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-11-20T10:30:27+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-11-20T10:43:01+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:12:34 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/972124280c86b91330fdc5766d860875c4841f031bc0ad0afa443352b7318b89d511c68266aedb1d5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
牛煦庭 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:30:27 - 10:43:01 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-11-20T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期內政委員會第11次全體委員會議（事由：邀請海洋委員會主任委員率同所屬列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。） |
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謝謝主席 管主委有請現在管主委你委員好主委早安最近這附近的局勢不是太穩定美國駐日大使格拉斯最近有講美國堅定對日本有防衛的承諾包含尖閣諸島也就是我們所稱的釣魚台 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
25.683 |
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那當然啦 這個中日之間的一個衝突當然會造成區域局勢的不穩定那當然就會觸碰到釣魚台的敏感神經那 按照我們的憲法等等這些規定而且歷來我想不分藍綠在執政的時候都有共同宣示嘛釣魚台當然是屬於中華民國主權的領土範圍 對不對主委同意這句話對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
45.397 |
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我不但就是說在不久前我也公開在媒體說主權是我們的這個沒有退讓我最近所發表的政策白皮書也都宣示這個中華民國的主權無益那我要問大概遇到這樣子的一個不穩定的狀況大概有兩種兩種做法啦也分別在我們不同時期前總統都有實踐過這個2005年的時候我們陳水扁前總統就有到彭佳瑜然後去接紀念碑的這個揭牌儀式 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
74.063 |
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當然就是宣示 順勢就宣示說我們政府對釣魚台的立場並沒有改變這是一種態度的展現 這是一種做法那麼馬英九前總統的時候則是講說用一個比較寬的心態 用一個合作為基礎的心態 |
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89.921 |
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他拋出了所謂的東海和平倡議後來催生了所謂的台日漁業協定那都是某一種層面都是面對這個問題然後宣示這個問題的一種方式那請問主委你有沒有跟行政院的平台等等或者甚至到總統等等針對最近這段時間我們打算因應這樣子的一個這個問題找上門來了嘛我們打算是用哪一種方式處理呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
111.616 |
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我們是打算比如說像陳前總統一樣也做出在某一些時刻某一些場合做出一些強力的宣示或者是說我們按照馬英九前總統過去講的所謂的和平倡議呼籲說大家把局勢穩定下來然後大家按照國際制度協議的方式來做處理現在我們政府比較傾向走哪一個方向各位委員報告我們穩定海域的這個局勢這個是我們堅持 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
138.871 |
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那在這個部分我們有透過我們所及的外交的行動來表達我們的期望那另外我們的最主要的工作就是護魚跟執法那護魚跟執法的話我們今天下午也會開會在這個部分呢我們就是要很謹慎的來做好這件事情一定要保護我們的漁民在這個緊張的局勢之中我們要做好護魚的工作 |
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167.496 |
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185.143 |
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讓我們有派一艘大艦在東北的海域這個絕對不會打折扣那至於說國家要不要以政府的立場去做主權的宣示這就不是海巡署他要去觸及的領域了我們就是做好我們的本分 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
185.643 |
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那其他的部分我們依照國安指示來處理本席是希望在藉這個機會喊喊話這當然本席是建議當然是按照馬前總統的宣誓來走本來我們就是希望局勢穩定和平過去也有和平的倡議跟相關的協議 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
205.592 |
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228.579 |
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照著協議來走讓局勢降下來恐怕是一個比較適合的角色啦這樣我想也不失中華民國的立場主權當然是我們可以稍作宣示但是和平更重要嘛我覺得這些事情是可以適時宣示但沒關係我也尊重主委的回答因為你今天不是總統對不對所以沒有關係但你有提到說護愚的部分絕對不打折扣這一點是很好的主權的部分我剛剛也已經宣示了一次好那我們就進入另外一個題目就是說 |
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這政治的問題處理跟宣示是一種層面但是實際上包含你海巡執行業務的時候我們還是要討論到政策的核心也就是人員徵補的問題稍早我有聽張志倫委員跟你的質詢我也是問相關的問題因為審計部的審計報告裡面其實有講就是說海巡人力的徵補作業雖然你把希望的緣額拉得很高但是實際上徵補進來的狀況這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
252.674 |
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281.051 |
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好像是比較有限比如說111年度及112年度的軍職人力並沒有辦法彌補流失是淨減少的狀況113年到10月截止審計報告的結果就是說稍微有增補但是離你的計畫目標還有很大的一段差距那麼這個軍職短缺的總體缺口從109年底的47人擴大到113年10月底的867人也就是說我們都知道大家都希望海巡的人越來越多但實際上補不了這麼多人 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
281.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
309.371 |
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這個人力缺口並沒有辦法有效的來補適啊這個 這個 主委啊我們軍人待遇條例修正之後啊這海巡署有沒有幫軍人加薪 有沒有邊境預算跟委員報告 預算的問題我想大家都知道答案了我也知道委員很包容我們在這個部分 我的立場委員也知道那人力的部分的話我們今年到年底會縮短那個差距 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
310.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
339.155 |
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會縮短到792人就是說我們會縮短到792人以外這個是我們招募的部分然後另外EWE會撥補所以會大幅的縮小我現在就擔心的就是說你如果要把這個數字的缺口彌補起來你當然從EWE裡面去增補一些人力當然也是你可以講這是沒有辦法中的辦法嘛但是其實我們當然希望海巡現在的角色其實是最吃重的嘛對不對又要護魚然後局勢又不是那麼的穩定 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
339.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
358.338 |
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所以其實壓力很大嘛對不對所以最正本清源的方式還是從專業的君子人力去彌補嘛還有科技我們明年科技倒入以後人力會受到我覺得最重要的還是人力的增補因為你回復審計部你是這樣說的你說我的人力成長第一要多元管道經用這大家都知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
358.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
382.737 |
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第二你要講人人都是招募員其實就跟一般這個志願役弟兄在募兵的時候大家都要協助招募的概念是一樣的但最近唯一能夠有效提升招募優先的其實就是軍人待遇條例的落實總統在四月份的那一波加薪已經有相當程度四月一號已經有 但顯然你的額度還差很多嘛你如果說這一波的加薪有效果的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
383.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
410.992 |
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你不會要調151的人去補缺口我最近在算一個數字就是說如果軍人加薪到我們三獨通過的版本的話那我們警職要加多少 文職要加多少這是我待會要跟你討論的問題那警職呢 警職如果沒有加的話我們海上更辛苦沒錯 這就是但是海上待遇卻我們一段一段來解決問題啦我想主委也不會反對當然這個一樣 跟剛剛那一題一樣我覺得是需要配套我覺得是一定要人事行政專業 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
412.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
424.838 |
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一起協商去把配套全部處理好目前這樣真的是僵局我就直接問主委一個問題直接幫軍人加薪有沒有助於招募的效果有沒有 你覺得有沒有幫助委員四月份的那個部分給予軍人的士氣很大的提升那也穩住了我們軍警文這種機構之間的橫向的平衡 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
438.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
467.14 |
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那現在就是說出現了橫向不平衡是一個新的問題好 橫向不平衡那我就順著這個問題往下講所以這個僵局我非常希望來這個僵局我非常希望應該要本於專業然後用協商來解決好我們現在就是靜待視線這樣靜待視線好嘛反正我講你沒辦法做主就是這個原因嘛沒關係我也不為難你艦隊分屬有講啊就是人力缺口的部分艦隊分屬上庭了我們都一直在演繹我們都一直在演繹 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
468.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
494.874 |
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艦隊的人力協會它其實就是警職對不對其實有一個合理性在裡面是警職嘛艦隊是不是警職 上庭是不是警職我現在有點擔心因為其實理論上大家認知海巡的工作上庭其實等於是海巡各項工作裡面最辛苦壓力最大的嘛 對不對然後它是警職 所以就會出現這個組委是否同意也會有一點點同工不同酬的狀態也就是說警職人員去做幾乎是君子的工作但是待遇不一樣 會不會有這個問題我舉一個例子好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
496.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
499.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
如果以三讀通過來講的話哼哼哼哼哼哼哼哼哼哼哼哼哼哼哼哼哼哼哼 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
515.507 |
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543.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
警職人員要上庭做的事情其實跟軍人強度其實是差不多的嘛但是制度上的設計讓他有不同的角色不一樣職法的素養很深我問你的是工作的強度嘛職法的性質當然不一樣大家都知道目前當然不是跟國軍的軍職比以海巡來講警職的強度非常的高警職的強度非常高甚至跟軍職都接近或甚至一樣對不對有這個狀況對不對甚至於比軍職高還更高講得真好 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
545.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
567.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
主委你站不站著我們來修正相關的法令幫警職也一起加薪委員真的導入人事行政的專業行政立法一定要透過協商來解決這個問題我不反對透過協商來解決這個問題啊但是都沒有處理的時候行政權就只能夠依賴憲法的解釋先來解套我們今天在這邊討論海巡內部的軍職跟警職是不是有同工不同酬的狀況的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
573.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
590.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
不就是在討論在協商嗎修法以後非常嚴重對不對那所以看起來修法以後失衡非常嚴重主委你應該贊成海巡內部的軍警的待遇警察對不對而且低階的薪水比高階的還要高就差很多嘛有私人狀那支持不支持警察也同步調整 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
591.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
608.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
我們現在要因為你海巡總體面對人力缺口的問題嘛我支持的不是再去單獨然後就沒有人事行政專業導入的情況之下再修出一個又有問題的法這個我不支持我絕對不支持一定無論如何要有人事行政專業導入這個非常重要人力有一個總體缺口你的招募出現了困難甚至你要到你軍警你要人身都是招募員現在我們二等兵 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
618.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
645.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
第一年的薪水跟講師的薪水一樣你把話聽完主席你總要讓他把問題聽完我會給他時間回答啦好不好我們時間也剩不多我們要收個尾現在面對人力征服的問題對不對你講人人都是招募員表示壓力很大你在警職的人力缺口你甚至要去找警大跟警專去調人所以表示客觀的結構來講你海巡有人力缺口的問題加薪是一個可以解決這個問題的方法 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
647.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
669.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
你應該不會反對這件事然後我剛剛還問了是不是有同工不同酬的問題你也講有嘛那大家就來討論請提升待遇你同同意這個方向嘛這非常的堅持這一點我真的非常堅持一定要有人事行政專業我覺得一定要有人事行政專業導入的情況之下才能夠有可行性 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
672.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
692.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
我從不反對你從政府的角度包含考量你的人事行政專業去提一個版本所以4月1號的那一波要不要4月1號的那一波就是有人事行政考量要不要幫警察警職人員海軍裡面的警職人員既然他工作強度都超過軍人要不要幫他們加薪嘛警職人員的加薪我們都正在做我們從他們的海上 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
695.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
704.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
這個海上加擠我們要求海上加擠不能夠三十幾年沒有調我們現在正在處理現在正在那你一開始就講這個事就好了嘛警察的待遇不夠高有失衡所以我要調整對不對那個不是透過修法 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
710.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
735.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
沒關係 你把相關的資料你把相關的資料來做提供因為我們今天討論 花這麼多時間討論辯論就是要解決人力缺口我希望透過改善待遇的方式來處理好不好 你把你的軍警文啊分工薪酬狀況困境通通你一個報告來 大家好好來討論這個事嘛好不好 我不反對用協商的方式處理但是我反對國土不協可以嗎沒關係 你把工作 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
739.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
752.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
工作分工薪酬的失衡跟問題跟可能目前你解決方法跟進度通通你報告讓內政委員會了解這樣我們就了解了啊委員我會跟你報告好可以沒有問題好不好謝謝好謝謝 |