| IVOD_ID |
165679 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165679 |
| 日期 |
2025-11-20 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-4-19-11 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期經濟委員會第11次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
11 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
19 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
經濟委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期經濟委員會第11次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-11-20T10:47:41+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-11-20T11:05:26+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:17:45 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/972124280c86b9132219d7024cbce8c5558ea7a01fa75879fa443352b7318b893175bca7e66acddc5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
謝衣鳯 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:47:41 - 11:05:26 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-11-20T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期經濟委員會第11次全體委員會議（事由：邀請國家發展委員會主任委員、經濟部部長、數位發展部首長、國家科學及技術委員會首長、教育部首長及勞動部首長就「攸關臺灣未來的競爭力，值此ＡI時代，臺灣如何贏得新人才戰？」進行報告，並備質詢。
【11月19日及20日二天一次會】） |
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所以我說我們經濟文化很溫和的來 信任委員請我想要請工部長還有葉主委謝謝 葉主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
23.834 |
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47.307 |
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我先就教你們 你們兩個昨天很硬對不對在那個政大金融演訓院你們說怎樣 沒有台灣病是不是經濟學人 你們剛經濟學人嘛 對不對你們兩個說沒有台灣病啊 是不是我是說台灣的經濟發展不錯 他應該是一個模範生 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
49.411 |
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台灣的經濟沒有生病所以你否認你延遲批判經濟學人指稱我們有台灣Disease對不對 沒有這個東西台灣Disease沒有台灣沒有病沒有病那他提到的是我們的匯率長期的被就是低估他認為我們應該要升值嗎 你覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
80.475 |
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91.247 |
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他的意思好像是這樣子但是我不曉得他真正的意思他的意思是這樣所以你認為台灣的產業現在還是以出口為導向 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
93.53 |
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119.669 |
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還是我們應該要發展內需型的產業以台灣的市場有沒有辦法發展內需型的產業出口為導向是對的所以未來台灣還是要走出口為導向的這樣子一個國際市場為主沒有錯啊國際市場為主對不對所以你認為台幣合理的匯率區間是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
120.851 |
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132.4 |
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我沒有辦法認定 這個是市場來決定的你現在是經濟部長啊國防組委站在你旁邊 你們兩個怎麼那麼硬你們現在就講啊台灣以出口為導向合理的匯率區間是什麼我們沒有操縱匯率嘛但是你以經濟部長的身份而言你要講啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
149.109 |
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162.106 |
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匯率不好啦 因為央行的組織 我不好在這邊沒有 這跟他沒有關係你講你的 他講他的你講的他也不一定會照做啊 是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
163.167 |
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179.043 |
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你為什麼不講因為匯率來講的話事實上從過去到現在台灣的匯率說實在話相對於其他國家你現在是經濟部長喔你知道嗎你不是國發會主委喔等一下國發會主委要講他的喔你經濟部長要講經濟部長的喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
182.436 |
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202.613 |
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對我是說以匯率來講的話台灣相對於其他國家相對是比較穩定的那其他國家事實上有上上下下的確是這樣但是也沒有因為其他國家上上下下影響到說台灣在國際間這個出口事實上表現很好的這個情形所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
203.524 |
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226.546 |
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事實上顯然匯率它不是單一因素可以主導這個出口的好壞就好像我們今天是出口好是因為AI這個情形但是對於傳產而言匯率事實上關係不對你說的是AI嘛半導體他們不會受到就是說第一個啦他們公司大啦他們甚至於海外的避險多啦那 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
227.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
255.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
但是對於傳產中小企業而言匯率對於他們來講就非常的重要所以這一直是傳產以及我們中小企業長期以來對於我們匯率這是經濟部長要去對央行提出的要求嘛 對不對所以我在央行理監事會我是希望我一直要求就是說要維持匯率的穩定因為你波動太大的話它報價都沒有辦法報 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
257.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
280.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
一下子漲太多一下跌下來那這樣的話報價沒有辦法報這個生意也沒有辦法造尤其是以中小為企業以製造業為主的話這樣是不好那七大工業國他們也說就是說基本上政府是不應該干預匯率的但是如果因為匯率波動太大的情況之下這是排除的這是可以介入的 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
282.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
297.955 |
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可以介入我也表達我也表達好那我們問一下葉主委啊葉主委你在你有參加央行理事會嗎我沒有你沒有是不是所以你對匯率你昨天不是說了嗎台灣沒有沒有那個沒有經濟學所說的那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
299.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
328.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
因为其实经济学人有一个很大的一个他可能没有考虑到就是说其实我们的出口的那个结构在三四十年前跟现在的出口结构其实完全不一样那你假如说拿三四十年前的那个论点要适用到现在其实有一点点不是那么合适啦我的感觉是不是那么合适那现在我们的整个出口的那一个那个品项啊产品啊其实是比较属于特殊性比较高的就是说其他国家生产不出来的 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
328.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
347.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
那傳產裡面也有特殊性高的這個部分嗎我是說你不能夠以半導體來講那傳產中小企業它並沒有所謂的特殊性的問題尤其是我們目前的這個機械以及就是我們現在的這些傳產的這個裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
350.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
369.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
怎麼樣子紡織業而言你怎麼樣子有就是說就是除了匯率以外還有其他的替代性因為跟委員報告我們台灣在三四年前其實大部分集中在傳產那經由這三四年之後的話我們其實半導體相對的比重比傳產多一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
369.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
386.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
那即使是在传产的话也有一些产业其实它有在经过一些产业升级比如说像纺织纺织的话它有一些就开始去用一些环保的素材像以前比如说像在FIFA的时候的话他们那些运动服其实都是我们做的 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
386.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
401.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
所以其實類似這樣一個獨特性的產品其實不會因為匯率的差異性而會影響到它的出口同時很多跨國的企業其實它本身都有在做避險所以另外一個就是說在結構上面來講的話你講的會不會是大型 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
402.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
426.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
第一個就是我們的外匯市場裡面的結構裡面的Prayer其實成分都已經跟三四十年不一樣了也就是說廠商拿到錢不見得直接馬上換成台幣他有可能存在國外的戶頭或者是說他直接去買美債去做避險所以你可以看到說最近這幾年那個台幣通常持穩在一部分的一個區間有一部分原因是因為這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
427.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
449.906 |
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那你再去看我们那个整个外汇市场的那个player的话其实你去看真的是从贸易方面去去去为主进入到那个汇率市场的话其实比率相当的比较少一些大部分都是国际的资金的流动所以那个部分其实对于我们的汇率的影响是比较大一点但假如说 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
451.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
476.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
经济学人认为是我们出口然后是因为汇率然后导致出口这个连结关系相对的比较没那么明显我的意思这样子你是认为说汇率所导致的应该不是因为说我们的出口会成长你认为不是因为汇率的关系所以是因为我们产品的这个关系尤其是像AI这一块因为它其实别人没有办法生产那就只有我能提供的话那你汇率高低对我来讲没有 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
476.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
503.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
那我对啊你都还是回到半导体啊你们两个都还是在半导体啊你们还是要关注传产但那个传产这个部分其实有啦因为有一些传产在最近其实都已经在做一些AI的一些转型那我再来这也是你们两个的议题啊就是说今年六月的时候我们所谓的就是要培育AI的人才就是在国内的大学或硕士毕业生是一加二嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
503.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
526.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
那東南亞的那個外籍生是2加4嗎那這個部分是不是你們還會繼續做2加4那個部分我們會跟教育部合作變成2加22加2新型障礙者專班還會持續做就是橋外生的部分是2加2 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
528.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
541.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
對 僑外生來 2加2沒有錯對 外籍生嘛然後東南亞的外籍生是2加2是不是對 一樣是2加2然後那個1加2的方案的話就不做了是不是1加2是我們國內的對 國內的部分也會持續推動 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
545.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
559.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
所以都會持續推動嗎所以未來這個就是我們的一家沒有因為換部長所以怎樣那個國發會就人在培訓還是會持續只是說資源稍微做一個整合就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
561.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
579.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
原來是2加4好像經營部要自己做那現在我們就是2加4經營部要自己做我們現在變成2加2事實上跟教育部事實上是合作那是有什麼樣的改變你能不能說明一下部長2加2就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
582.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
609.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
這個學生在國外他念了兩年書以後到台灣來再念兩年書那我們給他一些獎學金然後給生活費但是他要在我們台灣工作兩年那一加二呢會做什麼改變嗎一加二是台灣的學生畢業以後受訓一年那一樣是會留在那個單位兩年這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
610.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
622.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
就是那那個企業要先給他錢嗎當初好像是說企業先給他錢現在呢是我們政府會付這一個部分我們政府先給他錢然後企業後付是不是對對對 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
624.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
646.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
是不是 所以這個部分也會維持好 謝謝那我想要請問這是剛才好多位委員也有提到的就是我們現在就是速發部所講的我們的這個AI人才面臨的就是數量不足跟需求不符就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
647.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
673.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
現在他們要的就是馬上可以上手的這個AI人才但是我們目前到底我們計畫在推動多久以後才能給予這樣子產業所需求的人才其實我也有去看過我們產發署以及技術師他們所導入的就是經濟部所導入的AI的那個就是供應的那個生產鏈AI導入的生產鏈 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
674.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
696.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
但是我發現他非常高的強度仰賴就是說你要去一直給予這個AI的這個電腦要在資料庫Beta DES裡面一直要給予他們不同產業別的數據當然汽車零組件的有汽車零組件的數據那工具機的有工具機的 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
698.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
716.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
紡織業有紡織業的數據那這一種數據的就是培養需要一段期間那你們到底什麼時候我們的資料庫才能夠建就是說整建完畢然後整個可以協助企業因為現在企業人才已經進到這裡了 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
718.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
738.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
可是我們其實需要的是一個怎麼樣子把這個Database可以建立然後對於這個中小企業你真的能夠給予協助還有傳產能夠給予協助那這個人才以及這個資料庫才有辦法回到企業這個東西需要多久 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
739.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
754.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
包委員因為不同的企業或不同的產業事實上它對AI的需求有些不太一樣有些企業它事實上它AI本身AI程度已經很高了所以我們培訓它或者是給它協助的就會比較中高階的 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
755.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
778.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
但是有一些企业基本上还没有导入AI那我们给他就是一些初级的那他们的人员授训也是比较初阶的那这个部分等到满足如果有下一步的需要的时候他要进阶到中阶或高阶那我们会给他额外再加码再做训练是一步一脚印的这样的情况那所以我就说了你们现在这个iPad到底 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
779.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
805.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
有什麼作用你們發揮的作用如何IPS基本上是給數位發展部來就是說給一個什麼專業的人才認證但是到了這些專業人才認證到了跨產業的這個領域裡面的時候到底有沒有發揮作用是IPS基本上大概是一個訓考用一個三者合一的一個平台 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
807.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
834.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
除了我们经济部之外教育部也有参加劳动部也有参加就是说透过训练完以后一个认证机制这个认证机制怎么样跟产业界做结合甚至于这个班要开出来的时候我们都会去问这个产业工协会他们觉得有需要这样的这些AI的规划师设计师以后我们来开这个班然后说过减定的机制通过以后那他们也愿意训练如果在职的甚至于他还给奖励金 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
834.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
846.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
而且甚至可以加加薪就是鼓勵他們員工來受這樣的一個訓練所以它就是一個訓考用結合起來的一個機制我最後還有一個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
848.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
869.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
我覺得就是這個是我們看到這是英國獨立媒體他所發布的全球的AI國力的排行裡面我想請問為什麼我們又你看新加坡是第三名為什麼我們又是21名工部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
875.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
890.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
我們的半導體我們的出口比新加坡強這麼多為什麼我們的AI排名新加坡是第三名我們竟然是21名因為我們是生產AI的server還有半導體是非常強 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
891.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
908.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
但是這個算力的建造還有這個應用我們就是要加強現在我們AI新時代就是在做這樣的事情不是是你為什麼我們在這個軟體的應用上面會這麼差就是希望經濟部國發會還有國科會等等 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
912.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
933.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
你們共同來協助產業導入嘛不能說我們只有半導體強他們需要政府的協助低我們就給予他們協助低但是其實我們忽略了AI未來要應用AI不會泡沫化最重要的原因是在應用嘛 是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
935.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
954.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
是在應用嘛 那你的應用一定要導入所有的傳產所有的機械業所有的中小微企業裡面啊 是不是對 現在就是在做這樣的事情所以我希望政府能夠在不同的產業別都能夠導入 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
956.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
974.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
不要讓我們的AI 我們竟然是半導體為主而且我們AI的生產是全世界冠軍那甚至現在連川普總統都認為我們就是囊括了所有的這個晶片的產量 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
974.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
1002.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
那既然我們有這麼強的時候我們竟然沒有辦法讓我們的傳產我們的中小微企業都能夠享受到我們在AI發展的這個優勢那這個紅利現在沒有外溢到我們中小企業沒有外溢到我們的傳產裡面是不是所以我們現在就是要努力什麼時候可以你預計啊 目標啊什麼時候超越新加坡 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
1005.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
1033.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
主席 什麼時候我們只能說我們加油 我們努力這個會錄音喔 什麼時候超越新加坡你要有信心啊 葉主委有信心你講葉主委你講 你們倆昨天很硬啊 快點講這個真的需要努力啦什麼時候超越新加坡還是努力什麼時候啊 目標盡量縮短 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
1034.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
1060.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
縮短什麼時候 一年一年好不好一年有沒有辦法很難啊 加油請我們的這個官員不要在上面嬉笑好 兩年可以嗎兩年可以嗎 超越新加坡可不可以朝這個方向趕快去努力好 謝謝 |