| IVOD_ID |
165666 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165666 |
| 日期 |
2025-11-20 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-4-22-7 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期教育及文化委員會第7次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
7 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
22 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
教育及文化委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期教育及文化委員會第7次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-11-20T09:58:28+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-11-20T10:14:04+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:15:36 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/972124280c86b91349ab382b9dbbb0d2f94607883e6102ae43079a982cb9ebe0083d1f73e27fc1505ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
葉元之 |
| 委員發言時間 |
09:58:28 - 10:14:04 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-11-20T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期教育及文化委員會第7次全體委員會議（事由：邀請教育部政務次長劉國偉、數位發展部及國家通訊傳播委員會列席就「如何防範不當之短影音及社群平台兒少內容，加強數位及媒體素養」進行專題報告，並備質詢。） |
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主席好 麻煩請那個次長請梁次長教育部次長喂好那個次長好今天大家討論那個題目教育部的報告裡面是講說抖音小紅說很恐怖啦所以要兩個方法嘛一個方法就是學術網路要禁嘛第二個方法是加強有關於相關的試讀能力嘛 對吧 |
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我接下来跟你讨论一下如果说讲到社群媒体可能会对小朋友的影响应该是不同的媒体都会有吧但是我不知道为什么教育部第一个在上个月特别针对小红书发了一个叫做不迷小红书青春不迷返的一个专区就是只有针对小红书做专区 |
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那我有看到上面你們列了一大堆啦其中很大一部分都在講說小紅書裡面有很多詐騙行為市長知道這個事嗎是的 有知道那麼這樣讓我的感覺是怎樣就是好像小紅書只有詐騙其他社群都沒有詐騙我們事實上也對其他的但是沒有詹區啊 |
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沒有專區啊所以你今天只宣布你今天只在這個地方成立專區那大家會產生一個錯覺啊覺得他詐騙特別嚴重然後其他好像就還好大家就有這個錯覺啊那其他怎麼沒專區我們在臉書跟IG都有相關的 |
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我專區喔其實跟委員報告就是如果針對短影音的這個教育或是社群平台的教育社群平台教育我們也有那個臉書IG的專區沒有啊你們也沒有特別宣傳啊我也都查不到啊是 |
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委員這個部分我們主要是以那翠有沒有專區如果委員建議這個我們回去可以再加強你們現在說小紅書的詐騙很嚴重嘛400多件嘛你知道翠的詐騙幾件嗎 |
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146.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
你看這個是你們特別發文給各個學校啦然後有學校在網路上把它貼出來啦就說因為根據警政署165打詐疑標版縣市案例列有423件使用小紅書遭詐騙的案例423件 知道萃幾件嗎你知道昨天萃有幾件嗎 猜一下市長你猜一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
147.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
164.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
應該數萬件吧昨天的萃我查了六千四百六十六件這個就是警政署的打炸儀錶板啊結果你弄一個小紅書專區說他炸變嚴重啊四百二十三件結果萃六千四百六十六件沒專區 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
166.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
192.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
我覺得教育部那個標準相當奇怪相當奇怪所以如果你是要以詐騙假訊息這種角度禁止或者是提供試讀能力的話那我不知道這個只針對小紅書或者是抖音是不是政治考量啊並沒有我們真的沒有那為什麼你看以詐騙來講的話光一天一天就六千四百六六件你卻沒有成立專區 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
193.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
205.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
我們事後會專程...事後?所以沒有來質詢就沒有?就很奇怪嘛這個標準很怪嘛很怪嘛然後第二個喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
206.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
231.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
你剛剛是講說因為會有治安問題嘛所以特別要禁抖音跟小紅書那我問一下主要是因為抖音跟小紅書是中國大陸那邊的嘛對吧覺得會有治安問題嘛那如果以後這兩家社群忽然間不屬於中國大陸的話那就不禁了嗎基本上是的所以因為現在Ttalk確定會變美國抖音 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
232.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
255.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
所以只要在TikTok變成美國抖音的那一刻TikTok就解禁了教育部的立場是這樣我們的立場是依據我們今年九月通過的治安法上面是說不能裝置或錄製中國大陸製的資通訊所以沒關係我就確認一下嘛所以這個抖音變美國抖音就解禁 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
256.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
284.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
所以換句話說今天教育部去禁抖音跟小紅書其實你們比較重視的是治安的問題啦對於你們報告裡面寫一大堆什麼假消息啊詐騙啊什麼那個小朋友看了訊息之後看了訊息會進入一個兔子洞然後因為社群會不斷推播他有興趣的東西他會一直看下去嘛其實這個東西在所有的社群都是這樣這是演算法的問題所以你們比較重視的治安但至於說其他部分主要是要透過試讀來解決 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
286.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
315.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
我事實上還根據兒少法我們也在乎他有沒有一些內容違反到法律是不禁止的啦我說法律禁止都不行嘛法律禁止都不行我是說在法律禁止之外你們比如針對成癮或者是其他的部分你們是透過試讀嗎叫他們不要一直看嘛沒有那個OK OK那除了社群之外現在教育部留著NCC可不可以上來一下NCC也上來一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
317.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
342.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
這個我認為啦你們如果要推廣嗜讀現在嗜讀其實社群只是一個部分啦電視新聞還有各種網 廣告都一樣我來跟NCE跟教育部請教一下這是在前一段時間網路上非常紅的一個影片那時候宣傳罷免這個爸爸叫小朋友趕快去做功課小朋友說國家亂七八糟我讀書有什麼用啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
344.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
365.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
那時候讓大家發現文革時代的那種思想出來了天大地大沒有毛主席大讀書算什麼救國才重要所以要搞罷免請問一下站在教育部的立場次長你贊同這樣的觀點嗎就是爸爸叫小朋友讀書然後小朋友說讀什麼書啊我要去搞罷免啊你站教育的角度你贊成這樣的觀點嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
366.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
382.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
我教育的人 我是教育的人我不對這件事情有個人的comment不是 我問你贊不贊成不comment 你在質詢欸你來背詢欸 可以不comment喔這個你怕得罪那些罷免方喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
383.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
412.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
不是啦 這個跟教學無關學校老師在叫學生讀書學生說我不要做功課了因為我要有政治活動我要去從事政治活動各位有沒有老師要從事任何的政治活動我們尊重個人的行為所以教育部連說家長叫小朋友做功課小朋友說我不要做功課 我不要讀書了國家亂七八糟 念書也沒有教育部都覺得OK |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
413.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
435.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
站在教育部次長的角度覺得這樣是OK的我尊重教育部啦這就是我們的教育部嘛就是大家可受公平嘛因為這是你的價值觀嘛這是你的價值觀這是你的價值觀你的價值觀就覺得這樣的事情你是可以允許的嘛沒有關係啦我不知道為什麼你這麼害怕得罪罷免方啦如果是我我就會覺得可以這樣子嗎做出超級錯誤的示範 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
437.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
459.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
如果一百個小朋友裡面大家全部出來 爸媽叫小朋友做功課小朋友都說 不要啦 我有什麼事情啦比做功課還重要啦或什麼 我要去搞罷免啦你覺得OK的 次長是覺得OK的這種示範作用 次長是覺得OK的這就是我們的教育部啦我沒有說OK啊那你覺得可不可以我沒有說OK你覺得沒有不OK 也沒有覺得OK |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
460.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
483.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
你只是不敢表達意見市長啊你是教育部欸如果你今天是民進黨發言人的話你不表達意見我沒有意見啦你是教育部教育部面對這樣的事情你都可以說我沒有意見那你在那邊講什麼嗜讀啦如果牽涉到所有價值判斷都在講說我沒意見那你幹嘛講嗜讀你就說尊重大家的判斷就好了啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
484.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
511.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
沒有 我還是承諾這跟教學有沒有關係如果與教學學習無關的那我們就不應該請問家庭教育跟教學有沒有關係難道老師在學校教學生不希望家長也可以配合嗎做功課 如果說小朋友不做功課不希望教小朋友把功課做好嗎這怎麼會跟教育沒關係不要越講越誇張啦再來接下來 我來問一下這個NCC啦跟教育文化委員會有關的 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
512.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
531.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
我們 我相信召委雖然跟我不同黨啦但是大家很清楚啦有的時候有一些委員因為選區有一些學校可能設備真的很不OK會排考察去看一下那個選區的學校找教育部官員去了解一下這個在我們委員會應該很正常吧民進黨的召委也有幫民進黨的立委排過 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
532.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
551.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
很正常吧結果有名嘴或節目主持人在講說怎麼會去考察呢那個時候我去國中考察結果他說怎麼可能會我去國小考察怎麼會去國小呢要也是去國中啊然後這個講一大堆然後還有名嘴繼續講說什麼這個下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
556.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
582.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
他說很掉漆啊去什麼地方單位都沒來明明地方縣市教育局都有來但是直接在電視上說沒來然後說好奇怪喔如果真的是考察的話國民黨議員怎麼都沒來我問一下那個 趙偉趙偉我可以問一下我們委員會的主秘嗎主秘上次我們有去現場有沒有地方的官員有沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
584.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
606.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
有吧 詢問一下 會議詢問一下 有沒有我記得應該有啊有嘛 那他說沒有議員我們委員會考察會通知議員嗎這個不會啊不會通知嘛然後他說考察小學都是議員層級做的事情那所以我們教育文化委員會一堆委員去考察小學大家都在做議員喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
609.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
633.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
這擺明是假消息啊擺明假消息那請問一下祖密這個要怎麼試讀啊我看過那個教育部的報告他講說我們要讓小朋友知道他們為什麼要這樣子報導為什麼要做這件事情那我不知道這一家媒體綠媒就用假消息他是為什麼要做這些假消息啊祖密 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
635.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
657.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
就是這麼明顯的事情不求證那這個在NCC的角度是要怎麼處理啊我們要兩個嘛一個是事後開罰一個是事前預防然後再來針對小朋友做試讀嘛事前預防大概沒辦法做沒有辦法那你要不要跟教育部討論一下因為我們覺得如果有些社群媒體委員你剛才在說的是那個假消息這件事情因為是那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
658.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
674.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
就是違反事實查證的這個義務我們今天因為我們現在針對小朋友嘛那個市長市長來一下小朋友看到這個報導啊會覺得對一個立委怎麼來學校幫助我們爭取預算呢這不是議員該做的事嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
676.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
696.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
然後就開始覺得好像下次有立法委員去考察的時候呢小朋友就用很異樣眼光欸你來幹嘛其實立委去都是幫忙爭取預算嘛沒錯吧結果他就說你來幹嘛完全錯誤的觀念那這個部分要不要試讀加強試讀一下所以我們希望我們的老師能引導同學共同討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
697.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
720.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
共同討論是不是對 是的那你是不是覺得這個試讀也很重要有一些特定媒體做特定的假消息政治攻擊是的是的後面很多案例啦這個跟我個人有關的去投票當天說我姍姍來遲請問一下祖密投票時間是幾點到幾點投票你投票時間是幾點到幾點 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
723.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
750.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
8點到4點,你沒有投過票喔?8點到4點嘛,你是不是什麼時候去投都可以?10點半去,然後當天投票說直接說遲到,三三來遲這樣子有沒有違反什麼NCC的原則?我們現在就是未報告27條有所謂的違反事實查證違反事實查證,然後也沒辦法事先預防嘛因為這個就直播,就播出去了啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
752.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
762.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
市長是不是也要加強一下試讀特定媒體的試讀好 再來後面還有啦這個民進黨立委吳佩奕啊說我潑他水啊直接造謠啊後來 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
765.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
793.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
後來直接另外一個三立的電視台把畫面還原我沒有潑他水結果有一家媒體他覺得這樣子攻擊不到我打電話給我偷錄音偷錄音之後然後說我說是另外一個立委潑的水偷錄音主委你問一下記者偷錄音這個有沒有違反什麼還是沒有如果假設是那個在公開場合的話大概沒有不是公開打電話 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
795.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
817.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
打電話的話目前這塊是你打電話沒有規範但是有沒有需要所以新聞記者是可以隨便打給人家就就沒有採訪就直接偷錄音的可以然後偷錄音之後還自己亂講那個要跟不同層次來談一個是是不是有刑事責任跟我現在講一下因為趙偉站起來很久我也不好意思 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
818.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
847.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
今天一連串下來大家在討論的是怎麼樣不要讓小朋友接受到錯誤訊息假訊息影響到他獨立判斷精神所以我們要識讀嘛識讀就是要了解這個媒體他為什麼有什麼動機要這樣子做然後真相是如何嘛各方面要破除虛妄了解真相嘛獨立判斷獨立思考不要被影響嘛這是識讀主要的目的嘛社群媒體可能會有假消息可能會有詐騙可能會有治安問題同樣的主流新聞媒體假消息也一大堆啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
849.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
855.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
教育部不用重視嗎不用讓小朋友了解為什麼特地媒體老是喜歡散發跟政治有關的假消息 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
856.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
886.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
然後第二個事後防閉事後防閉教育部現在的做法是屏蔽校園網路那NCC的做法是事後裁罰你們是這樣嘛但你們有事先的機制嗎現在這些新聞自律委員會都不用討論都連偷錄音然後亂講假消息不用查證新聞他們都沒有自律委員會嗎NCC目前啊他們各個新聞台其實都有自律委員會啊那為什麼還會這樣子然後NCC跟好像都不存在一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
887.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
902.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
前一段時間假消息一大堆都不存在一樣NCE都不存在一樣只要有任何的檢舉我們都會依照程序來處理啊所以你們就是有人檢舉你們才會處理嘛是但是假消息沒人檢舉就讓他在台灣社會散佈嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
903.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
930.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
那如果是按照你這種消息態度教育部也不用媒體試讀了啦所以我們包括事先防弊還有閱聽人自己的試讀以及事後的裁罰都要併重嘛媒體試讀NCC加油好不好好 謝謝然後教育部針對新聞做那麼多假消息也希望你排同樣重要的試讀的課程可以嗎我們以後努力以後努力那現在不努力喔謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
934.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
936.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
谢谢谢谢议员支援执行官员请回座 |