| IVOD_ID |
16566 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16566 |
| 日期 |
2025-04-07 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-15-8 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期內政委員會第8次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
8 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
15 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
內政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期內政委員會第8次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2025-04-07T08:30:32+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-04-07T12:30:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
03:59:28 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/eeffa975d6a1e3ea391d75eca066790eef3840653eac67e36e2c503bbdfdf4b6c55127d7a1a419525ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-04-07T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
(變更議程)立法院第11屆第3會期內政委員會第8次全體委員會議（事由：邀請內政部部長、交通部就「市區道路品質改善計畫執行效益與檢討」進行專題報告，並備質詢。
【本次議案係114年度內政部國土管理署及所屬「生活圈道路交通系統建設計畫(市區道路)」業務費預算解凍條件之檢討改善專案報告】） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:30:32 - 12:30:00 |
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by bwd6 |
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1411.316 |
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嗯嗯嗯嗯 |
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2142.196 |
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2150.484 |
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大家早安,請主任秘書報告出席人數報告委員會出席委員14人,已足法定人數好,我們現在開會進行報告事項,請宣讀上次會議議事錄 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
2154.062 |
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2181.66 |
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立法院第十一届第三会期内政委员会第七次全体委员会议议事录时间一百十四年三月三十一日星期一上午九时一分至十二时四十分地点红龙二零二会议室出席委员麦玉珍委员等十四人列席委员黄建豪委员等九人列席官员内政部部长刘师芳及相关人员住民组委员会副主任委员钟兴华及相关人员海洋委员会人事处副处长郑中坚及相关人员客家委员会综合规划处处长陈瑞荣劳动部常务次长陈明� |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
2184.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
2210.057 |
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主席牛召集委员许婷报告事项宣读上次会议议事录决定确定讨论事项继续审查今年日及节日实施条例草案即25案决议一委员牛许婷等22人所提第3条第4条第5条第6条第7条第13条条文相关委员提案内容委员牛许婷等50人委员麦英珍等5人所提修正动议之相关条文及委员会初步审查修正条文均已并保留 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
2210.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
2227.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
2.第一条修正通过条文修正如下第一条为彰显纪念日及节日之特殊意义并规定放假日期及举行纪念庆祝或纪念活动以纪念国家发展历史传承各族群传统民俗及促进多元文化发展特制定本条例纪念日及节日之时是依本条例之规定 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
2229.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
2244.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
三审查通过这条文条次引述条文文字及相关法制用语授权主席及议事人员整理四并案审查完据拟据审查报告提报院会讨论需交由党团协商并推进刘钊锦委员许婷于院会讨论时作补充说明其他事项二案一 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
2245.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
2264.709 |
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应纪念日及节日实施条例草案仍有多条文未能达成共识原建请本会应令定期继续审议以求完备不应尽送委员会协商本案才举手表决方式表决结果在场委员13人不喊主席赞成者6人反对者7人赞成者少数本案不通过提案人委员王波义等6人 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
2265.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
2291.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
委員李博義等6人 而針對本次會議決議在場委員表示異議才舉手表決方式表決結果 在場委員13人不含主席 贊成者7人 反對者6人贊成者多數本案照主席宣告之會議決議通過 宣讀完畢好 請問各位委員 上次會議議事錄有無錯誤會議囉沒有好 那我們議事錄確定 謝謝大家那我們今天繼續進行本日議程的報告事項 請宣讀 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
2302.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
2317.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
邀請內政部部長交通部就市區道路品質改善計畫執行效益與檢討進行專題報告並被質詢本次議案系114年度內政部國土管理署及所屬生活圈道路交通系統建設計畫市區道路業務費預算解凍條件之檢討改善專案報告宣讀完畢好那我們現在介紹在場委員跟列席的官員首先是張志倫委員賴玉珍委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
2332.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
2356.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
吳慶民委員 吳慶民 不好意思 張宏祿 趙偉 王美惠委員蘇巧惠委員 黃潔委員 還有李柏毅委員好 官員的部分 我們內政部 劉世芳部長國土署 吳興修署長 還有我們交通部 公路局的林聰立副局長 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
2359.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
2372.96 |
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好 接下來我們請內政部的劉思芳部長針對今天的專案報告主席請張宏祿召委好 請張宏祿召委程序發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
2379.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
2400.871 |
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沒有我想請教趙偉或跟竹密這個以我們議事規則來講的話我們今天如果要審這個預算解凍這樣子是可以審嗎你可以請竹密說明一下嗎好我們請議事人員做一下補充說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
2403.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2425.672 |
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跟委員會報告 依各委員會組織法第四條之一各委員會的議程應由輪值召集委員決定之不是不是 我說今天就我們立法院的議事規則來講我院會也還沒有交下解凍案的預算案任何的那個那我們今天可以審解凍嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
2427.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2454.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
報告召委今天其實就今天的程序來講今天就算是專案報告事實上他也不能做解凍與否的決定所以我們今天只是專案報告那下次如果要遇到這個我們不用再一次專案報告解凍案還是要等院會交下來才可以處理吧是不是好謝謝請李博議員程序發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2462.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2475.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
謝謝竹密我沒有聽得很清楚你說今天我們做這個不算是解凍的專案報告但是不算解凍案在真正的我們這個預算來講它不是解凍案對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2477.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2499.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
解凍要怎麼樣?祖民你說明一下報告委員會,立法院的解凍還是要行政機關把它相關的你講立法院的部分?對,它還是要從院會交付才能做解凍程序的準與否 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2500.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2518.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
對,所以我們院會目前沒有辦法交付的原因其實我們也講得很清楚院會目前沒有辦法交付的原因是行政院針對被統三的這些預算還沒有辦法真正算出來怎麼樣送到立法院,立法院怎麼樣來進行解凍 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2519.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2535.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
所以造成包含行政院包含各地方政府他目前才化法已經實施目前所有的預算真的沒有辦法做一個完整的整理進入到立法院來這才是真正的原因 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2536.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2549.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
那我也很樂意來討論這個專案但是這個專案的背後他會有中央政府跟行政院跟地方政府的這些分配比例的問題這部分我們等一下會議進行之後再來做檢討 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2552.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2574.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
謝謝李博議員,我說明一下這我們跟議事人員有做過確認就是說在解凍案還沒有交付進來的情況之下能不能先排專案報告,那這個結論當然是可以的這個目的是我們今天先進行專案報告,未來解凍案的程序是這樣行政院提出來之後交到立法院大院,大院附委之後進到內政委員會來審查這我想是大家都清楚的事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2575.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2589.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
但是中間如果有專案報告作為前提的話你萬一後面一次送進來很多其實會造成大家排案的困難所以我們在前面的時候我們先把幾個跟比較重大民生建設相關的一些解凍案的專案報告我們先把它走完那未來這個我想 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2590.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2617.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
在不耽誤建設的一個情況之下行政院未來在交付的時候我們在處理解凍的時候可以比較快這我也相信今天在尋答的過程中如果當初提案的委員或者是關心的委員可以充分的尋答其實都有助於預算的解凍所以我想今天排案的狀況應該是沒有問題的那就希望大家有把握今天的機會趕快來針對生活圈的道路的部分來進行充分的政策對話跟討論好 那麼還有各位委員還有要程序發言嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2618.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2621.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
好那我們就往下走囉謝謝請內政部劉思芳部長針對今天的主題進行報告謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2629.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2635.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
本次委員會召開的會議是討論內政部有關於道路建設相關的議題它的背景說明跟大家做一下簡單的報告有三個第一個生活圈道路交通系統的建設計畫系辦理市區道路新闢跟拓寬工程 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2649.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2665.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
第二提升道路品質計劃細微針對既有道路進行改善第三永續提升行人安全計劃及辦理人行環境建置及義照式路口的改善現在的辦理情形如下一生活圈道路交通系統建設計劃 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2666.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2673.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
自111年迄今已經核定244件道路工程歷年達成率高達98%以上114年度的預算總共編列72.99億元預計辦理的92項工程達成率預估大約是95 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2687.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2712.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
2.提升道路品质计划从106年9月执行至今主要效益已经完成无障碍人行环境改善660公里改善道路品质长度有959公里3.永续提升人行安全计划截至114年3月底已经核定457案执行内容包括人行环境改善及799处行人依照市入口改善 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2713.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2739.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
其中一兆市入口屬內政部夜館一共有601處部分截至114年3月底已經完成595處完工率高達99%第三有關辦理成果的部分一生活圈道路透過完善的道路網絡改善瓶頸入口與打通節點提升通行效率減少擁塞堵塞促進都市交通順暢流動 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2740.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2757.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
第二永續行人以行人安全為核心透過道路漸減調查增設人行道庇護島與無障礙設施提升長者與行動不變者的通行便利性並且建置友善步行區改善社區生活品質第三道路品質透過 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2757.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2775.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
互面平坦度的检测优化沥青工法等技术提升路面平整度与安全性透过道路断面检讨调整路形及改善人行环境并且推动绿化与管线地下化减少开花提升城市景观与环境品质 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2775.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2801.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
第四在執行檢討的部分內政部包含國土管理署為了促進計劃能夠執行更加完善就相關事項檢討說明如下一零星個案因為有民意整合的問題用地的問題還有配合周邊計劃整併等特殊因素調整原來提報的效益第二部分縣市政府由於道路基礎的建設不足連帶考核成績不佳 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2801.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2822.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
如果因此降低中央補助的資源恐難有足夠經費加以改善故透過本計劃改善基礎建設第三將請地方政府於案件設計階段邀請交通工程專業相關專家學者與會以提升案件的品質第四有關補助計劃辦理基本設計審議給予意見以及決議 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2825.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2847.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
以及決議供執行單位精進設計成果部分內容則賦予執行單位依據不同環境習慣特性民意等調整內容五結語的部分內政部將持續推動人本環境提供適當補助協助地方政府共同改善全國道路品質也透過內政部道路建設相關的計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2848.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2874.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
即使財政較弱的縣市亦可以透過提案來申請補助逐步改善道路基礎建設另外同時推動強化入口安全設計的新思維降低入口肇事機率以擺脫人行地域的包袱以上簡要的報告請召委及各委員參考謝謝好謝謝謝謝部長的報告那其他的部分我們就參閱書面好不好那我們現在進行 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2876.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2877.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
詢問各位同仁有沒有意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2901.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2908.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
沒有 好 謝謝現在我們進行詢答首先請登記第一位的麥玉珍委員發言主席好 有請國土署署長好 請吳興修署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2934.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2948.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
署長好今天的專案報告有看到就是分為三個大面向就是生活圈道路系統檢討還有永續提升行人安全計畫以及 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2948.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2969.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
提升道路品質但是其中就提到了為了強化行人安全而針對改善行人道路的地方補助計劃根據我們的國土管理署的統計全國市區人行到普及率110年 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2970.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2984.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
的年底為36.68%112年測為38.4%只有微微增加但是我看到你們的報告裡面的說98 95%以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2988.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
3002.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
這樣的數據連預算中心在113年都指出成長幅度非常低落所以請教署長全國市區人行道的普及率是目前是多少還有明確的數據嗎這我想要請教一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
3010.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
3032.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
跟委員報告我們大概每年因為全台灣當時都是計劃道路開闢的時候人行道德施作比例的確很低那所以我們透過相關的計劃包含生活圈包含提升道路品質那也包含了這一個後來的這一個危險路口的改善以及現在的永續的那我們大概每年都會成長1%多到2%的狀況來進行那因為這樣因為全國各縣市都 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
3039.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
3048.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
普遍存在這樣的問題那所以我們的確是用這樣的目標持續在努力那也透過相關的預算在編列對但是我沒有看到短期的預期達到的目標啦過去這個計畫有沒有明確的改善計畫或者是說我們的進度控管還有是考核我是沒有看到我們看到的報告就是這幾頁就結束了 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
3065.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
3087.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
所以感覺剛才也看到 還有另外一句說你剛才說成長率就是但是我們的人行道現在列名的什麼 地域二名就是我們的人行道這邊好像地域一樣其中社會大眾關心的重點就是說我們人行道的寬度 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
3089.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
3109.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
還有依據我們的人行道的寬度還有交通量的最低的限制但從110年到113四年近寬不足最低標準的人行道也距離超過兩成所以我們國土署的問題檢討成果 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
3113.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
3141.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
都沒說都說達成率多少但是這個具體都沒有去講清楚所以我們的預期的什麼時候我們全國就是在低的標準寬度的人行道是在哪裡所以我們沒有看到你們報告裡面跟我們報告其實大約每年在跟大會在大院在做相關的這個預算執行報告其實我們的相關的計畫裡面都已經有提列 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
3141.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
3164.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
那因為各縣市所面臨的這樣的問題困難度不一那道路寬度呢也有寬窄不一那所以他要去劃的不管是實體人行道或標線型人行道那或者是施作相關的庇護島每一個道路的條件都不同所以我們每年都在協助地方政府把這些去做加速的執行那我們跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
3164.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
3183.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
大院報告的是說因為我們的預算執行率每年都高達98%以上顯示我們跟地方政府齊心努力每年都在改善這一些道路的人行到了寬度所以我們剛剛也提到大概每年是以1%到2%之間的比例再往上再提升 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
3184.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
3192.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
同時呢也在加速的訂定各項的規則在協助地方政府把這個做出來但是我們看到今天是不是要來說成果報告還有檢討報告對不對但是我看你們的檢討跟成果 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
3198.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
3217.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
都沒有檢討都是報告如果是做得那麼好的話為什麼你看我們台灣行人五大地獄現象12月的死亡率你自己看嘛所以說我們是說做得那麼好還有說一直在關心的是解凍解凍的費用但是有沒有關心說剛才你說的費用是足的 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
3224.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
3233.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
非能讓你做得夠的 但是我們看到的是這樣子的面向 跟委員報告其實如果認真要去做改善其實 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
3236.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
3245.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
所以我希望說你要有具體的計劃具體的計劃要送給我們辦公室可以嗎不是用講的 用講的講個幾句回去啦所以說事實上具體的計劃我們沒有看到每年的預算執行率都超過98%以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
3256.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
3267.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
所以才會希望大院對 預算98%以上執行率不到60%這樣子的話我們才要去凍結預算希望說你們要有計畫但是今天我看到的就是報告就是了了幾張就報告了事所以還有就是說我們在國土計畫上一起生活圈的道路裡面我們剛才有說裡面有九個 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
3285.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
3307.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
未能如期完工的工程 延到111年到延到116年但是在我們在其中三個案件在112年就是也提出多次的流標又沒有人來去標案 所以沒辦法去執行比如說我們彰化大補鄉這邊 我們大陸的寬度規劃 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
3312.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
3325.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
所以說也是 就是緩慢還有呢 我們工程的費用就一路上修原油就是在我們訂的11億現在增加到21億 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
3327.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
3355.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
七千八百萬但是新增的佔領就原定的餘額就是四十點三五趴結果呢從我們一零八年前就計劃要核定當初是要說今年十二月就完工了但是呢一直拖拖拖到七年十月份再宣布說再封路三年 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
3356.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
3378.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
這樣的計畫的形成所以說完全沒有在去做好所以呢又再編列預算所以這樣子的計畫什麼時候才看到說我們真正的執行的評估在哪裡經費又要管控在如何去製作才會達到說我們的 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
3380.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3409.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
交通道路讓大家可以安心嘛但是我們沒有看到所以如果是做得好的話大家就不會去去申訴啦所以這個部分也多次的流標所以這個報告是不是可以要拜託你用一份給我們現在讓你看你說你怎麼樣有什麼就是措施或有什麼方案真的是達成不要一言再言 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3411 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3436.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
經費預算在算 又一直在掙扎事情沒做 錢一直在拿好 感謝委員因為其實在過去幾年的確因為工程預算就是在流標的問題比較嚴重那大概在11年到11、12、13年之間其實我們大概全國各地的公共工程都有類似的情形就是說整個的這個營建成本快補了 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3437.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3455.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
快速的上漲導致這些道路無法決標那其實在過去幾年都陸陸續續在做改善那現在都已經在執行當中那對於我們的預算來講其實預算上漲代表我們在這個地方呢他還是很受地方政府的這個支持工程要完成 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3457.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3467.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
預算上漲是沒有問題因為有新的道路有地方要改善但是執行經費95%工程執行再延後三年再來編列預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3473.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3477.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
這樣對不對所以說這個都是我們人民的期盼前不是說一直要預算但是工程又流標又來編列預算所以我們希望的執行的目標就要提升我們的區道路的品質與安全交通安全還有打造就是行人的與汽車的環境還有改善我們的交通 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3502.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3518.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
都是路口的轉彎的點的功能還有強化道路的排水還有照明我們的景觀的措施所以推動智慧交通的整理這樣的管理 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3518.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3521.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
這樣才真的是我們的目標但是我們不能在報告裡面執行力的預算我們跟你申請多少預算問得開嘹嘹但是你要報的說你們的執行的措施執行的效果在哪裡的目標在哪裡我們要的是這個對我們的人民才真的幫助不是說你們便利預算有花完達到預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3548.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3567.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
就是执行率95% 98%但是我们的措施我们的道路执行率达不到一半60%这样子的话我们就是要消耗力算不是真正的执行的目的所以希望我们的商项以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3568.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3583.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
提出更具體的預算還有怎麼樣的方案讓我們真真才了解你們做到哪裡才能說到最後如何再去解凍因為我們要的 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3585.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3600.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
凍結預算就是要讓你們要有具體的方式具體的目標才能照這樣去執行好嗎 可以嗎好 謝謝委員 我們會再做一些說明 謝謝好 麻煩你再把計畫交到我們的辦公室可以嗎好 謝謝好 謝謝麥立正委員下一位我們請張志倫委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3615.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3640.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
好主席好各位委員各位官員大家早是不是有請吳署長吳署長有請好委員好好謝謝署長首先還是要對國土署這個非常辛苦表示這個感謝那首先今天要討論的是有關於市區道路品質改善及執行效益的檢討那內政部其實過去一集以來表示為了改善我國 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3641.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3660.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
市區道路品質跟人行環境的安全已經分別提及推動相關計劃中央現在的計劃是我們的第一個生活圈道路交通系統建設計劃以及提升道路品質計劃我們有投入大量的預算尤其在112年起我們標榜以人為本的規劃理念 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3661.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3678.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
那可是第一個我們想要請教署長的事可是實際核定人心改善相關的補助案件的比例從這個剛開始開始以後從106年主要的補助案件超過50%是有關於人心 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3680.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3698.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
人行環境改善的比例是比較高的非人行改善比例的是比較低的可是到112年的時候這幾年來講逐漸下滑下滑到超過50%下滑到32.67所以我覺得一般人民最關心的還是過去 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3699.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3713.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
很多委員所擔心的人行地域跟高齡者寸步難行的一些問題是不是可以請教署長為什麼人行環境改善的類別是人民所關心的比例從百分之五十幾一直下降到112點我們所收到的資料是大概百分之三十三左右 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3714.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3732.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
感謝那其實這也是委員所問到就是我們政策上做了一個修正也就是說過去他是把人行跟非人行放在同一個計畫那我們從112年開始開始分類出危險路口跟人行道的改善就把這個項目裡面再分為人行跟非人行 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3732.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3750.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
是那所以呢甚至後來再有了永續這樣的一個計畫出來所以我們把它徹底分成兩個那這樣可以分類的清楚因為在許多道路上它尤其是非六都的它有很多是純粹是屬於提升道路品質改善道路的 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3750.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3775.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
那有一些是可以做人行道的那過去混在一起看起來你就會好像全部都有那事實上我們再把它做詳細的分類以後那所以就會這樣表上看到這個就好像比較少事實上是另外有一個單獨的計畫來幫它執行是這個意思那選校署長這人行環境改善類別因為現在都是主要是以人為本的那有沒有機會未來在核定的跟計畫上可以多推動一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3776.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3805.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
因為過去100過去大概106年的時候其實他的比例是上升的嘛是他是超過50%的嘛有沒有機會就是說未來再調整的部分說還是以人行為主因為人才比較容易就新人才比較容易受惠的到嘛所以我們現在分兩個計畫以後在永續類的還有校園環境的這一個部分他的經費我們大概每年都有在編列120億當然如果各縣市政府如果執行效果真的很好我想我們也會再跟院 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3806.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3822.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
來爭取跟行政院再爭取再多但是呢也跟委員報告我們還是希望說這些預算喔都能夠讓我們如此的來進行因為畢竟各縣市政府都是需求非常殷切的所以我們預算如果以後執行好還要再增加我們會再來努力 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3822.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3851.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
沒問題好因為也跟署長報告其實我們在這個道路道路提升道路品質計畫過去是用前瞻的預算來做那未來的話就像您所說的我們會把它改成永續提升人行安全計畫的部分那預算的部分本來一年是50億50幾億也會提升到140幾億120億所以整個預算我會大幅的提升我希望可以為人行的這個可以為台灣的未來人行地域的部分可以做一些改善 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3852.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3870.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
那第二個我想要請教就是有關於我們這邊手上有個資料就是各地方政府其實市區道路人行道的普遍及普遍率的情形其實還是有一些真真簡簡那我們要請問說就是說因為國土署有一個人本交通手冊它是我們就是要載明 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3871.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3889.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
未來就是過去可能是以這個車子為主那未來是希望轉型以人為本的這個道路規劃為主軸可是六都之一的新北市這個人行道普及的率看我們現在手上的資料看起來是有倒退的一個傾向大概是倒退這個快要2.7% |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3890.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3916.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
那是不是有一些可以說明說是不是新北市目前有申報的併貨合併或合併的人行道的改善的數量經費是不是有倒退或被駁回的一個情形說明一下大概這個原因有兩個第一個就是說因為我們過去在劃人行道的標準的時候道路寬度是要超過8米以上甚至要到12米以上12米我們才會要求那後來大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3917.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3938.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
為了這個行人的安全問題所以我們統一把它下修了那這八米路以後八米路也可以化人像所以你的分母變大第二個尤其在新北因為這幾年新開發案比較多像這個溫宅駿這一類的開發案比較多所以它化設的道路的數量又增加了所以它整個分母都變大所以才會呈現但事實上我們可給 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3939.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3964.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
新北市的計畫其實一向都核給的數量是蠻多的啦所以我想大概以永續行人的話大概我們每一年大概都會有9件到15件之間啦那所以都是協助新北市政府去不斷的在提升這樣的一個道路品質那所以我想這一個計畫都有賴於大院這邊盡量的支持我們我們都還是會盡量協助地方那至於有一些是在 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3965.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3975.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
非六都的部分他們對於提升道路品質的部分的要求就會比較高也就改善現在道路品質不佳的部分那這個是屬於前瞻的部分這個也需要大院這邊來協助 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3976.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
4000.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
是好那我再請教一下齁請教這個署長一下齁那未來我們現在很多不管是在這個市區道路過或是人行道路的部分的改善喔那剛剛有提到從我們會從提升道路品質計劃改後續前瞻在114年度會借其改成永續提升行人安全計劃來接棒每年大概會有100多億的這個預算案喔那未來不管是 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
4001.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
4022.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
我們改善的一個狀況不管是人行道或是道路的改善有沒有一個這個成效的評估的一個來檢討的部分就是我們修完這些道路或人行道以後有沒有可能給人民或是給一些一些外部單位來做一些審核所以我們現在修完有沒有多的經費審核完了以後的一個品質的一個檢驗 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
4024.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
4041.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
感謝委員的確我們在過去來講大概都是以一般的檢討會議來就是說我們會委託專家學者那還有一些相關有施工經驗的或是一些身障團體都會去做一些檢視這是第一個那第二個就是說我們也透過這一個車禍的車禍的調查 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
4044.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
4067.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
也就是說完工前跟完工後的車禍的頻率還有車禍的原因那我們現在也都有在做一些調查分析那確實它以我們之前所調查的成果來講大概以過去113年跟112年相比的話大概平均的車禍的降的數據我印象沒有記錯大概會降低了百分之四十幾%那所以其實它都會有效的改善 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
4067.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
4080.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
那至於這整個完整的品質的話我想都還有賴於我們後續會找專家學者跟深藏團體一起來做檢視這個我們會每年都會做出相關的檢查好 謝謝署長 那未來繼續加油好 謝謝署長 我們是請劉事芳 劉部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
4089.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
4114.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
周委員好部長好我覺得今天開這樣子的一個專案說明會我覺得我們非常感謝我們召委主席排這樣的案子其實就是希望說很多跟民生相關的一些重要的預算是可以趕快來提出解凍案那我們知道解凍案它是必須一個程序行政院要送到立法院程序委員會才能報院等等這樣的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
4115.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
4137.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
部分所以我想要請教部長這邊是不是因為我就我所了解其實開議以後我們就很關心很多的解凍案那我相信各部會其實你所屬的內政部很多部會其實也把解凍案我相信就是很積極想要來處理那我是不是想請教部長你們有沒有一個所謂的時序表或是說有沒有哪一些的部會現在還沒有送案子到你這邊來的 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
4139.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
4144.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
跟內政部相關的其他署包括警政、消防、移民等等這些我們的會計單位本來就一體的所以一點都沒有差別導致重要的部分就是說我今天早上有對媒體來說明的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
4162.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
4180.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
就是行政院到目前為止對於立法院所有通刪的部分有個636億要行政院自己去自行去處理刪減跟凍結這個部分目前為止還沒有跟立法院達成一個共識就是刪減哪裡凍結哪裡所以我們現在也只能用 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
4180.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
4202.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
所有的預算就是以前已經發生過的或是已經持續性的預算如果是新增的部分的話呢包括我們要新增的社會住宅的興建那我已經下令國土署跟我們的住都中心就先暫時不要動因為沒有新預算進來的話我們自己善加利用恐怕會違反我們預算的這個執行的程序 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
4202.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
4226.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
所以我還是要請教部長所以因為有些我個人認為有些的這個預算案的凍結有些是書面送出書面就可以解凍有些是要提專案報告才能解凍那這些案子本席是認為說應該就像我們主席召委我們今天所提的有些案子是我們認為是可以送進來是不是可不可以請你們內部再溝通檢討看看哪一些報告員 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
4228.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
4257.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
有沒有一些案子是可以送進來先解凍的報告委員這個就是原等於說這個解凍案如果送進來以後其實這個案子就撤案了嘛那未來在整體的整個政府在所謂的整個預算的使用上其實是可以拆炸彈嘛一個一個炸彈拆可以解開來我認為是可以讓整個政府的效率可以變更佳的報告委員那個立法院的預算解凍程序應該不是像委員所說的先由委員會處理應該是立法院的院會交辦下來沒錯沒錯那我們就要按照立法院交辦的程序來處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
4258.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
4269.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
好那希望說還是我們這邊還是要希望說部長有些比較容易或者民生重大案子的解凍案可以趕快請行政院送到立法院來好嗎好謝謝是好謝謝張志倫委員的質詢下一個我們請張宏祿召委 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
4287.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
4289.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
我請署長署長有請委員好署長我剛剛當然每個委員有每個委員的立場剛剛也有委員質詢有說到你們就是都做得不好所以刪你們預算要來解凍要看條件要好的話才要解凍你認同嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
4324.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
4339.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
其實我想這個都是中央跟地方通力才能解決的問題今天也不一定是完全說預算編列到非常多地方政府就能夠完全執行因為每個大家執行的量能都有一定的程度那我們每年都在做這樣的考核 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
4340.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
4362.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
那不斷地在檢討看看地方政府所提案的內容因為事實上尤其做人行倒是一個很辛苦的事情因為現有的道路已經以車型為主要再改成人行的話那地方政府在執行過程當中我們也體會他要跟民眾溝通的一些困難所以在每年都會不斷地去檢討考核看看他的提案數量 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
4362.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
4389.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
那所以其實大家都已經盡力在執行那這個也不是說單方面說我只看一個數字而是事實上要去看到執行後的效果那所以到目前來講我們是認為我們的執行的成果是非常的好你認為你的執行成果好啊可是人家剛剛人家有的委員就認為你的執行不好啊對不對這個也不是我剛剛你自己有沒有聽清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
4389.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4417.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
有沒有你剛有沒有聽清楚有對嘛所以我剛我剛問你的我請教你的我要問你的時候他說你們資訊不好所以他刪你們預算啊啊凍結你們的預算啊啊你們用的好再來啊我只問你這個你你贊不贊成呃其實我反而是覺得要替地方政府在你只要回答我講清楚因為我們其實是執行的效果是非常好不是啊你只要回答我你贊不贊成啊呃其實 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4419.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4448.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
我是比較尷尬你比較尷尬我為什麼要問你這個我只能說我們盡力去處理啦我為什麼要問你這個我跟你講每個委員的看法都有他的有道理之處他要刪你的預算你要怎麼亂有人說亂刪有人說什麼我覺得各自表述但我是不大認同為什麼不大認同呢要看要看全國 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4449.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4467.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
你不能只看你的地方啊因為你們這些都是跟縣市政府合作的吧是對不對每個縣市政府的能力態度不一樣吧沒錯的確是這樣我想說你說錯了沒錯還是錯每個縣市政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4472.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4478.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
他的積極度他的能力他什麼都不一樣你不能用這個很差的縣市政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4479.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4505.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
啊來說全國都這樣所以你去看一個報表一個什麼要來刪這個預算要來做解凍的依據我個人認為不公平你對那個積極認識的縣市首長是一個非常不公平的事情那你本來就做不好的我說真的你要去動他去什麼的我覺得還說得過去但很多是積極在做的吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4507.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4528.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
是不是其實大多數都非常非常積極你也不要跟我講大多數啦我覺得這個我坦白跟你講署長你說大多數這就是官話了啦我們看得出來有的就不積極啊有的也是亂搞啊對不對我之前一年前了我請你們 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4529.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4551.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
對人行道 改善行人的這一個去訂定一個補助的標準 考核的標準我不知道你們做了沒 做得如何跟委員報告 因為過去去年才剛執行第一期所以它其實相關的考核是今年才會開始而且是在鼓勵提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4551.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4577.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
所以我們是先在目前為止都先用鼓勵提案的概念先鼓勵地方政府下去做我跟你講齁去年我去年你們去看你回去看我的諮詢我就諮詢我就要求啦你一開始做我就發現問題啦我是不是就覺得這個有問題啊你們要去做啊對不對你們現在的要求地方積極的來地方就給你報一堆案子來 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4578.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4603.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
到最後第一個沒有能力做第二個他報給你的案子跟他實際執行的內容是不一樣的啊對不對我是不是在去年就講了我說像這種的你就下次要補助你可以不給他你管他是什麼市長啊我們要把錢花在刀口上欸他給你申請人行道結果他就完全去做綠美化結果把人行道搞得亂七八糟 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4604.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4631.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
這樣合理嗎我覺得這筆錢就不能這樣花啊對這個我們在審查的過程當中都會去抓出這些問題都會去抓出這些問題不是除了抓出問題之外我是不是要請你們要做一個考核的不要又不是我錢給他的你就不管不會這我們事後都會去考核因為中間都會有列管的會議啊會列管跟檢討的會議你事後考核他都已經發包出去了然後 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4632.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4640.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
地方的發包他就依地方政府的發包去執行了啊等於他報給你中央是A計畫他地方執行的B計畫對不對那個B計畫他發包了你已經來不及處理了我們在設計階段都會有審查 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4649.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4653.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
都會要他把設計的報告會送過來我們會再做實際的檢查來確認他的這個預算的內容我就舉一個例子給你啊我們新北就很多啊對不對那像我就跟你講啦我們的長江路對不對他報給你A計畫他做的是B計畫啊對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4668.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4695.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
阿這樣可以嗎因為像那種計畫的話就是說我們只能合我們要求的這一個部分我只能給你我的部分至於你要額外增加的一些綠美化那就是你自己的經費要去做處理啦我們通常都會把它切開來經費處理是一件事情我們對齁配合你的生活圈道路你的什麼齁還有你主要幹道15分鐘之內要到交流道什麼這都是你們的政策餒對不對它的人行道 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4696.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4702.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
如果亂做影響到車流你那個15分鐘的計畫能達成嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4704.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4730.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
這個是環環相扣的你不要以為這一個降下去就沒事我覺得這個不對我剛舉長江路的例子就是全國也有很多這樣沒有縣市長那麼笨我跟您要一筆錢然後我自己再多加一點然後我來做什麼綠美化或做什麼我跟你講塞車是你的問題綠美化是我的政績 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4731.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4756.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
阿可以這樣嗎這筆錢重複的這樣子就會受到很大的影響所以我才說要做一個管考啦我覺得這一點真的很重要我想這個我們在現行的管考我想會把委員這個意見我們再加進來來檢視一下這些計畫的合理性應該是說它的內容的合理性你上次就這樣跟我講啦這個我們其實在管考會議都有在討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4758.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4780.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
我覺得這是一個要嚴肅去面對的問題啦既然有這筆錢我們希望他花的好啦而不是這樣子你如果把他執行的好我跟你講我不相信有哪個立委要再來說這筆錢怎麼樣做的不好怎麼樣我跟你講他如果這樣子敢這樣子講如果你把他廣告好的話全台灣都看得出他的成果的時候誰會去說這個不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4784.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4802.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
我覺得他自己就要就要面對人家的檢驗哪一個人能夠睜眼說瞎話我覺得你只要做得好人家就無法挑剔你啦所以在這樣的情況下像現在啦現在啦再給我30秒現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4804.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4829.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
你所有的前瞻計畫如果有-1萬這樣子你很多的補助沒了喔是不是很多都沒了很多都沒了你們會不會挪用這些去填那裡不會因為兩個預算項執行內容不一樣我知道執行內容我們在行政機關那麼久了啦可以怎麼樣我們大家都清楚我的意思是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4831.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4839.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
該什麼樣的就是什麼樣的不要去做別的啦反正前瞻計畫被刪了現在已經是事實了 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4840.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4863.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
不能給的就不能給了 我覺得也只能這樣啦我們這筆錢應該用在它原來的地方地方你管它什麼幾期幾期 那個另外想辦法也不是現在可以解決的前瞻一直沒有通過的話 大概不是只有要核定的案子會受影響可能連執行中的 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4863.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4883.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
都會受影響執行中的也會受影響那你執行中的你現在也沒辦法啊你內政部你也不可能拿出其他的錢來了啊你反而要趕快讓地方知道錢就已經到這裡了要怎麼收要怎麼去那個可以現在處理你不要現在不處理到時候又衍生一堆問題來我覺得應該是這樣子啊錢都已經被刪了啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4889.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4918.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
對不對 你不可能去伸出錢來吧沒錯 所以我們其實在之前的管考會議都已經有通知地方政府了就是原來預計核定的案子都停下來那執行中的案子我們就撥付到一定程度我們就不再撥款對 要先跟他們講我覺得這個要讓地方也有一個應變那像我們今天在討論的這個我必須要說一句如果預算沒解凍 你要先跟他們講 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4919.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4943.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
是沒有就是沒有啦不要現在他說他要繼續發包到時候發包完再跟你講說他已經發包了我覺得不應該欸這個是浪費錢欸浪費地方政府的錢欸他不要再去做任何發包的程序了了解因為生活圈是一個長期的計畫對一旦有中間有一個預算受到影響其實他連帶後面整個受影響是 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4944.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4968.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
但我的意思就是說你說的是沒有錯但是如果你他是他會地方政府有的或承辦的他沒有去管他他就先照計畫去發包那你發包完了反正也沒錢第一個浪費你去發包的錢第二個你沒有錢下來你反而衍生一堆問題到時候承包商到時候要來找你們什麼我跟你講他到時候推給你內政部說內政部就沒給我錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4971.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4984.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
這些我認為現在都要去預備我們這個預算這樣子因為我們剛也問了就是說行政院內政部也還沒有辦法去確確算出多少錢來我們也沒有去做解凍的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4985.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
5013.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
那沒有在這個情況之下我跟你講現在已經四月了啦可以預期今年很多都不能做了啦也做不了了啦不要浪費人民的納稅錢你反而要他們集中精力做哪些可以做的那這些長期計劃性的看明年的預算可以明年再補給他們我覺得這樣子才是解決問題啦不然你會變成中央跟地方空耗 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
5014.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
5024.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
沒有錢的空號是蛤這個我們已經有在檢討會議跟地方政府做說明請讓議委因應謝謝好謝謝張宏祿召委下一位我們請王美惠委員主席我們請署長你怎麼知道我要叫你啊我叫你你就站著是來主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
5043.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
5057.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
在這 署長剛才很多我們的好董事有說過今天就是要探討我們市區的生活簽署剛才最為你跟紅綠紮尾說的說你們想辦法我想不想想什麼辦法第二天前瞻的第五期到現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
5072.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
5079.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
還沒處理的時候,有的地方,你們補助是因為前瞻的地方,這樣他一定有發泡 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
5084.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
5100.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
像這樣要怎麼處理 來 署長你回答一下第一個就是說 第一就是說 生活圈的部分其實都是有家庭 政府統治啦因為生活圈是比較長期的 就是說一個居委可能四五年所以它中的部分 我先說今年 如果我這個部分你怎麼說 公文給他們我們在檢討會議 我們檢討會議裡面都已經有跟他們說明了 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
5114.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
5125.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
後面我們只能看預算的處理情形再通知他們所以這就是中央跟地方大家互相搭配但是前瞻就比較明確 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
5128.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
5150.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
你原地準備要合訂的,現在都先停了,那沒有了,沒有合訂這件事事情就是說,去年已經合訂在這行程的我就說,我就拔錢拔到這個位,照進度我拔到你那裡,出那裡沒有了因為照去年的尤省,我可以框訂的額度到多少,我就框到那邊給你那出那裡,平時你要自己預約營運,這都在檢討會議都有給你說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
5152.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
5153.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
現在有的年輕大嘛 有的是社區跟學校目前現在都有做的 目前 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
5169.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
5172.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
本心本性有跟你們提議,因為一定要市政府跟管理商,我們才有辦法去農曆嘛,因為如果沒有商,也不知道問題出一隊,還是帶一條路,不要帶一個學校跟路 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
5187.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
5192.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
社區要走的,不好走的,要改善的,一定他們要有提議出來嘛把提議出來,你們自己覺得說,帶一條陷害,可以先做嘛我們在這裏面,像你說的,這樣沒錢,這樣就海融融了這確實啦,有些地方,我們可以,有些地方變成暫停提案啦,不讓他們再提了 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
5213.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
5228.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
那有一些尤其是像剛才說的提升人行安全還有就是道路品質的部分那道路品質大概對有機廢料都大概衝擊是比較大 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
5229.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
5233.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
對非六都衝擊是比較大因為很多都要靠這個來把這長年失修的道路要做一些改善因為我覺得不是在六都裡面都怕人家說 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
5245.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
5248.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
提議有三件項目,中央的審核項目,內政可以投入,當局一來,局外可以緩修,可以溝通好,人生要走也很安全啦在這個安全當中,現在我好煩惱的就是說,要仰賴中央的步驟,結果沒有了啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
5270.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
5272.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
這是很煩惱啦像說我們今天大家有什麼問題可以做探討我們要謙證他站出來的時候 交付我們的內政看怎麼處理 如果做得好 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
5288.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
5296.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
我們還可以處理這個經費的時候因為以我自己來說我自己中央學校的步驟我認為有改善過你們有時間去騎去走都做得很好啊評測也很好啊所以為了這個醫生暫時凍結的時候對我自己來說應用費最大是 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
5318.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
5326.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
因為你如果知道我的個性,我不分藍綠,不分誰在地方執政,只是把義氣的建設做好才好,不要讓義氣的白色領域,兩樣的區域,地方什麼棟沒工,寶座就沒工 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
5343.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
5345.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
這是很大的侮辱啦所以署長在這裡 你要知道我真正在那邊要順路騎摩托車的時候 把你收回整個日本啦你要知道 把你持 非常需要 中央的合作啦尤其現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
5364.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
5367.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
像剛才那條路擺好之後 本縣一直發表對應的建議 對應的計劃 已經漸漸完成了現在八十月的十二條路 署長你知道這條路嗎 要怎麼處理嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
5387.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
5394.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
因為現在可能就暫時無法及時發佈了啦因為現在暫時有部分先暫停下來所以我就是站在我的地方的立場我最高興的啦本來認為班俠會的交通用這條路來改善結果現在沒辦法啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
5409.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
5418.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
市長,那有什麼方法?現在有先跟市府有說我知道有說,那你中央有什麼方法?我也是希望這比較快解凍,這邊的部分我們就可以儘速來核定這部分這樣就是說,解凍後對家役及本社會的責任就能夠做了 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
5434.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
5443.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
我認為市府也認真發表 因為我講實在的市府也認真 我們民運代表也認真所以我們就是要手牽手為了地方的建設來發表有的人擔心 有的人擔心他說不知道地方的感覺怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
5465.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
5469.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
所以署長,在這,我認為,長久以來,在過程中,我開台北的時候,你已經知道地方的需求是什麼,要改善的是什麼,所以有做到不好的,我們也要改善,本身來說, |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
5488.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5496.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
我們忙在人行道做完這個登彎這個關節的時候讓登彎的騎摩托車騎卡車的人慢慢危險這是我們中央跟地方要去看好做好不是做了好 把我們改善了一點小細節會因為一個車禍來地上很多危險的人 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5518.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5529.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
市長,在這裡面本身要跟你說,這是很多,因為大家也看到自己的改變,自己的水平也好,這裡的大廈也好,學府也好,這裡都漸漸已經改變了,你會很後悔,所以這裡不能等 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5542.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5549.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
拜託 國境有什麼計劃 什麼好處理可以早日在第二次的建設 國境配合不像你們說的 加上發寶雲也沒辦法跟大英說 這就沒辦法 還要想出辦法不是沒辦法啦 有的很大方向啦三三的 有的沒的啦 當然啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5570.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5580.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
謝謝王美惠委員下一位我們請黃婕委員質詢好謝謝主席我想先問一下我們立法院的預算中心有代表在這邊可以回應一下嗎沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5599.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5604.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
沒有預算中心基本上是運作的除非有特別的事情否則不會來備詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5605.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5631.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
因為我看我們開會通知上面有針對這個副本都有請預算中心然後我們總務處 副本啊對啊對啊因為這今天的案子跟之後的解凍是有關係的啦所以應該是有一個複製的動作啦我的理解沒有錯的話應該是這樣對 但是不表示他會來備詢啊今天也沒有要處理解凍案嘛因為我剛剛有講過嘛這個程序是行政院提出來之後 復委之後我們才能夠進行解凍的處理但專報可以先走啦 好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5632.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5650.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
這就是我的疑惑因為今天這個排這個專案報告會變成說我們在這邊不太知道用意為何既然不是要針對這個預算的內容進行解凍的討論那我們在這邊是不是有一點浪費時間呢所以呢我會覺得說大家如果早知道說這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5652.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5662.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
解凍就是有一定的程序那立法院過去的程序也都是必須要先由院會交付下來進到委員會我們才可以走這樣的解凍程序那我們在這邊竟然沒有辦法討論實質的解凍與否那在這邊討論這個專案報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5668.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5681.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
好像沒有任何實質的意義也沒有任何效益所以我是覺得說之後是不是就是不要這樣浪費時間了對所有的委員也不是很尊重啦那我們是不是先請那個國土署署長來吳署長有請 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5691.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5712.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
好 署長好其實剛剛很多委員都有提到說大家在各個選區擔心自己相關的這個人行道的工程的計畫延宕或是停擺那我在這邊也要幫我的選區來請命因為其實我的選區剛好去年我也很努力爭取到了一個是我們高雄中央公園周邊的人行道的計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5713.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5736.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
那另外一個是我們高雄火車站周邊也有整體人行計畫的改善那甚至我們到現場也都會刊了非常多次好不容易有了新的進度結果因為今年的這個預算大砍大山大洞然後導致剛剛舊署長的意思聽起來是就算已經核定的也可能接下來走不下去是這個意思嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5736.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5758.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
根本報告大概第一個就是在有關生活圈的部分有一些提案我們就會請他先暫緩因為我們在排那個每年的預算執行的時候會把執行中的優先那有些新提案的部分如果預算在執行過往當中的確排不進去我們會請他暫緩 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5759.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5774.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
那第二個大概就是前瞻的部分大概是衝擊最大因為很多縣市政府是把前瞻跟永續它是混合在提案的那這混合提案的話前瞻的部分沒有的話那可能連帶了一些案子也會受影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5777.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5793.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
謝謝署長的報告我聽完真的是要吐血了去年好不容易爭取到這個人行道的計畫對我們高雄市區的整個行人的改善非常非常之重要再加上去年上半年好不容易我們內政委員會通過了一個行人設施條例也順利三讀通過了 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5794.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5804.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
那所有全台灣的人民期待的是整個全台灣人行的計畫開始可以大動作的開始進行改善結果現在跟我說因為總預算被亂刪亂砍亂動導致我們原本的計畫必須停擺必須耽擱那這樣我們要怎麼對我們選民來交代呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5816.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5829.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
所以我是覺得非常遺憾啦再次還是要表達從去年下半年省預算到今年上半年的復議案再到現在我們要進行這個無關解凍實質與否的一個專案報告的討論都還是發現說 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5834.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5848.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
這個預算根本就是亂砍的啊對民眾來說不只沒有福國利民而且禍國殃民我是覺得非常非常遺憾那我還是希望接下來有可以有盡快補救的措施包括說現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5849.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5852.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
因為我也知道說其實政院還有636億因為通刪要叫我們各個部會要自行刪減然後自行刪減之後才會確定到底刪了多少數字我們才有辦法進一步的討論怎麼送進立法院然後怎麼討論解凍這個就是現在因為亂砍預算然後沒有目的沒有章法的亂砍之後導致到已經今年已經到4月囉已經到4月了 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5877.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5904.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
還沒有辦法好好討論到底如何解凍這些預算這是我是覺得非常頭痛啦這件事情那也會很直接的影響到我們地方上的計畫那除了這兩個我們我的選區的計畫可能很可能受到影響之外我也還是要問一下啦因為其實我們還是很關心全台灣人行道的普及率那其實到目前為止我們全台灣市區的人行道普及率也只有38% |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5906.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5925.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
那這個就是為什麼我們去年上半年那麼急著要把人行行人設施條例通過是希望說接下來可以普及的快一點可是呢到目前為止以目前的缺口來說我大概算了一下如果以目前38%我們想要達到百分之百人行到普及還需要大概170年 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5928.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5951.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
以目前這個做法的進度下去啦還要170年我們全台灣的人行道才會讓大家在各個大街小巷都看到人行道普及那這是我這種很擔心說現在這種歸宿前進的建設進度到底要怎麼樣加快進度那當然預算的爭取是一個很重要的趕快立法院錢下來我們才有錢來加速的前進嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5955.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5981.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
那還有沒有其他的方式是可不可以就是如果我們財政問題一直沒有辦法解決一直被被這樣子亂砍亂刪之後我們到底還可以怎麼樣去改善的根本報告其實因為在實體人行道的建設其實他是需要比較多的經費因為實體而且實體人行道他在過往當中以前有道路來講他要需要更多的溝通協調那但是標線型的 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5981.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
6010.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
人行道當然是一個比較次要的那有時候也會民眾講說感覺上他需要更多的交通控制的手段來協助標線型人行道那相對成本是低但其實這兩個做法是可以混用但是呢以經費不足的狀況下標線型人行道跟小部分的路口改善是可以先行那這部分也是我們在另外在推相關計畫的時候會來來盡力來協助地方政府達成而且 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
6011.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
6030.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
標線行程行道跟路口改善對地方政府來講財政的壓力是相對比較小這個我們同步也會協助地方政府來執行尤其在一些狹小巷弄裡面這些都可以來做的這是我們同步可以來做但是如果希望大幅度的改善當然最終還是需要財政上的一個支持我想做這樣的報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
6031.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
6046.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
好謝謝署長這個部分再麻煩你再督促我們各地方縣市政府如果大型的這種實體的人行道沒有第一時間因為錢下不去那是不是可以先讓他們先普遍的做這種簡易型的人行道呢是好謝謝署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
6051.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
6077.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
好 謝謝黃婕委員我再次跟委員會報告說明一下今天的這個有一些議事的流程跟規則啦這個如果對於這個程序不是很了解其實我都覺得可以多請教一下議事人員我再次講一下這個解凍案的流程如果要解凍要處理就是由行政院提出 復委之後再委員會討論但是很多解凍案當初提案的條件都要進行專案報告經同意後 使得解凍換言之如果今天沒有開這個專案報告之後也是要開的 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
6078.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
6104.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
那我們如果可以用現在前面的時間多排幾場跟解凍案有關的專案報告未來這個行政機關在送解凍案的時候我們從議事效率的角度我們可以一天處理好幾個因為實際上巡達的程序都走完了也不用好幾個專案報告都拼在一起然後到最後造成這個會議發生的一個狀況所以用前面的空檔先排專案報告先把前提條件處理完跟解凍案是不衝突甚至是有助於解凍的流程要推進在此特別跟委員會報告說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
6105.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
6113.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
這我想行政機關心裡很清楚我們早一點排到底對解凍是有幫助還是有害我想這個大家都很清楚啦好 謝謝接下來我們請李博弈委員質詢署長署長有請今天是專案報告不是解凍 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
6132.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
6152.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
那今天這一個專案報告的前面的名稱是說市區道路品質改善計畫執行效益檢討專案報告這是來自這個我們去年度在審預算的時候在台灣民眾黨所提出來的這一個凍結案凍結這一個專案的25%的凍結案 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
6158.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
6187.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
那也從剛才台灣民眾黨的委員他質疑這個執行率98%以及地方政府有沒有需要這些相關的這些計畫的內容看到台灣民眾黨到現在還是沒有任何希望解凍的這個想法那在這邊我要非常剛剛主席你也講到你今天排這個其實是要為了未來解凍方便我跟你說啦主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
6191.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
6213.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
這一個道路品質的專案報告裡面還有這個生活圈道路還有提升人行安全計畫還有提升道路品質計畫有三個你要不要做三次這假的啊那也跟解凍無關啊今天就是大家好好來檢討這些專案報告我想要請教署長的 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
6216.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
6234.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
我從去年一直在爭取包含這個我們內政委員會到高雄考察那我跟剛才的黃婕委員我們也一起考察了高雄車站旁邊的這個人行道人行道的專案計畫那個時候我們剛通過行人安全行人交通安全設施條例 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
6236.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
6260.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
所以國土署這邊也提出包含六年幾百億的預算的計畫我想這個剛剛也講得很清楚有被延宕了署長我請教你我們另外一次考察的翠華路跟德明路提升道路品質計畫這個會不會受到影響這個高雄市對我們來講對高雄市的整個預算來講 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
6262.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
6288.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
兩條路鋪設道路品質要達到兩億的預算喔這個有沒有受到影響我一個一個問完第二個新台17南段工程我也帶你去看了這個接受路的拓寬也是需要兩億多的生活圈道路這個有沒有受到影響還有新莊一路用地改善計畫新莊一路整個下水道 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
6289.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
6314.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
計畫都已經送過來了現在是不是要停下來了這個有沒有受到影響我們擔心的是這些計畫有沒有因為預算的統三600多億再加上財劃法好你現在財劃法下放給地方之後這一些我剛提到的這幾個有沒有受到影響 署長我簡單說明那前瞻的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
6315.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
6334.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
立案前瞻的部分是確實啦就是說新的核定案都先停下來新的核定案就是原來在今年所以啊新的S7難斷這個是新的核定案啊對那這是第一個第二個就是說生活圈的部分也很明確就是說優先給已經發包執行中的 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
6335.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
6365.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
又先給發包執行中的署長我這一個新台17還沒有發包執行因為後來國防部這邊有提出另外的需求沒錯沒錯已經協調好了又被影響了是好不容易行政院已經協調好了對所以有關於生活圈不管是新台17或者是後面講的這個道路拓寬案大概這個部分就是屬於新的案件的話我們也都是先審但是沒有辦法核定 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
6366.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
6393.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
現在就沒有辦法 因為我們預算是優先給執行中的蘇長我不知道你收到公文了沒有這個行政院已經協調好國防部對於他的戰備然後對於他的這個攻堅計畫 待拆待限的計畫這個已經協調好了包含工程會已經協調好了那我也希望這一部分因為已經協調好的話國路署這邊可以一樣來做一個審查至於您剛剛最後提到還有裁劃法的部分因為裁劃法也是我們現在在等最後的結果 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
6395.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
6403.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
因為才化法的部分會對於這一個永續跟這一個生活圈的部分大概又是另外一個因為現在我們也在 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
6404.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
6430.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
最後在等院的最後的結果那到時候也會跟地方政府再召開看看是後續的執行案件的分配比率經費的這個分擔比率或者是說對於核定案件的內容是不是大家要重新做調整這個我們就會有相關的因應的做法再來做跟地方政府來做溝通我也會跟高雄市政府一起找內政部一起找國土署來做這些相關的討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
6431.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
6458.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
因為我們這個好不容易從劉仕芳立委爭取到劉仕芳部長到現在好不容易把最後的代差代鑒還有這個戰備都已經都已經協調好了然後現在因為被國土署被內政部認為是新的計畫可能會有延宕來我要請劉部長新台17啊劉部長有請委員好報告報到齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
6462.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
6478.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
最後這個代菜代件還有戰備這個都已經協調完了在這個行政院都已經協調完了那剛剛署長說這個可能會屬於新的計畫可能會延宕到新台時期接下來其實已經可以動工了但是算新的計畫可能沒有辦法動了 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
6480.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
6505.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
這個請問部長我們要怎麼接下來處理目前因為新台17縣確實是分成兩段南段這部分我上個禮拜已經卸掉了如果是屬於一個已經執行當中的計畫然後是跨年度的話我們來看看原先的計畫可不可以容納進去但是如果是全新的話可能沒有這個行政院或者是立法院講好未來要煽動的這個預算數有沒有包括這一項那如果沒有包括的話我們才能執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
6506.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
6527.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
那簡單講 也跟部長說明一下現在的進度到這個中正 到介壽路這一段 其實算舊的計畫但是從介壽路再往南 我跟署長去會堪的這一段兩億多因為後面有牽涉到古蹟公園 遺蹟公園等等的這一段可能算新的計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
6528.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
6538.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
但這兩億多新的計畫來講對台17來講就是最後就是差了那麼一公里差那麼一公里就到中華路沒辦法非常可惜齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
6539.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
6567.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
這牽涉到我們整個南門也要做一個改造把原本的六個路口的圓環要改造成兩個大路口也就是從成峰路接古山路從左營大路接中華路然後合併我們的這個新台時期我們希望這一個計畫也可以來創造包含這個財化法實施之後那財化法當然現在可能也在示現財化法如果實施到底高昌市政府這一步 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6567.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6584.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
這一條道路剛市政府可能原本分配的比例25他可能要變成70或多少這可能都要必須大家一起來協商有可能114年的總預算可能要跟財化法一起連動才能夠處理委員所說的這一段道路要施工的計畫總經費的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6587.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6602.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
謝謝部長這個我們還是要一起來努力啦雖然我已經接手你繼續在處理新台時期了現在遇到的狀況那部長也非常清楚那也希望部長可以指示國土署這邊新台時期要讓他如期在明年完工我們來努力謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6611.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6628.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
好謝謝李博義委員我還是要再次跟委員會說明一下這個專案報告要排幾次要怎麼解凍大家都是商量過了包含今天的題目剛剛有他質疑說今天的題目怎麼練今天的題目是跟國土署商量好的不要打錯人自己打臉政府很奇怪如果真的要排三次 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6628.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6654.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
如果解凍要排三次如果民進黨委員趙偉要排三次要以求完備這我們當然也會尊重好不好但我們認為道路圈這個題目一個案子排一次把它講清楚有些人關心品質有些人關心人行道有些人關心建設進度把它講清楚了對於解凍是有幫助的再來這個會議不是假的喔趙偉該排該處理好的該溝通好的都有做前世的溝通這不要到最後弄起來好像是民進黨委員不想解凍是不太好看好不好好 下一位我們請蘇僑會委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6667.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6669.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
好謝謝主席我們請劉思芳劉部長劉部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6676.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6680.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
部長好 在開始之前我們剛剛主席剛好在我上台之前講了這一段這個我也是想表示一下這個主席可能本身沒有提這個相關主席本身應該沒有提這一案的這個這一幕的預算案嘛可是 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6694.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6696.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
事實上我們今天為什麼要花這麼多的時間在處理這一幕這一個專案報告甚至是討論是不是要解凍呢老實講我們手上可以看到就是這樣子的一個案子這個案子是 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6711.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6719.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
這個國土署的第七款第二項第七目的第三在生活圈道路交通系統建設計劃跨號市區道路也就是今天的會議通知單上面發的這個所謂解凍案的這個部分名稱可是啊這個案子我們怎麼看左看右看這個案子沒有在委員會討論過啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6732.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6736.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
這個案子是用黨團的名義直接送交到院會去啪一個就出現了然後就凍結了預算然後我們就必須今天內政委員會又要召開一個專案報告來討論是不是要解凍這一個預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6750.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6773.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
好 那要解凍預算對 是要經過這些詢問沒有錯所以主席說程序上我們是加速了我覺得也是辛苦主席了因為這真的不是主席的意思不是主席個人提出的這是別的黨團提出的我想主席也是很委屈啊可是我們再細看這個黨團你說他如果提的內容很有道理那我們也就認了 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6773.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6779.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
表示內政委員會都不夠專業沒有提出他的案子沒有像他想的這麼周延所以我們就花時間在內政委員會來討論這個案子可是我們看看這個案子你看前面在講的說他是要來討論這一幕生活圈道路交通系統建設計畫那下面是什麼他下面是說因為內政不好在提升道路品質計畫這個項目做得不好所以第三段 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6802.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6808.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
原動結該預算這兩個計畫好像不太一樣部長我想請問你一下您剛剛在部長你提出的今天的這一份專案報告裡面第一題就破題很清楚的告訴大家本業務業管道路建設相關議題有什麼有哪三項部長可以請你簡單說你櫃部業管道路建設相關議題 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6831.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6853.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
有哪三項 各自代表的是 重點是哪一些嗎是 我先跟委員報告一下只要簡答就好了在委員的那個書面報告裡面確實講得非常的清楚就是我們現在所要那個辦理的這個事項應該不是只有剛剛你所提到這個由這個台灣民眾黨所提的這個部分而且這些幾乎都是法定的預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6854.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6861.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
是啊 你這邊就很清楚的寫嘛第一大段就寫了本部的夜館道路建設相關議題有生活圈道路交通系統建設這個主要是在打通打通我們道路的瓶頸耶然後在造橋鋪路這樣的部分那它可能有市區的部分 沒有錯但是打通瓶頸造橋鋪路好 第二個呢我們有永續提升人行安全計畫第三個 我們提升道路品質計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6882.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6886.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
結果剛剛的這份提案是在講提升道路品質提案做得不好所以我來凍結這個我們打通瓶頸的道路交通系統計畫請問這到底是哪一門子的提案我們為什麼花時間在處理這種提案我真的是不太理解啦好啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6901.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6912.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
所以我先用這個運算案回應一下剛剛主席這樣說我覺得主席真的辛苦啦但是這個部分剛剛第一位質詢的委員他看起來也對部會的報告相當不滿意所以到時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6917.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6945.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
預算到底要不要解凍啊因為他剛剛不滿意啊那這樣結論到底是什麼到底到時候如果院會交下來了以後到底是要解還是不要解所以我想表示的是我們當然想解凍啊可是這整個問題就是今天的立法院完全亂的套啦完全亂的套啦你提預算審查的這個案子可以不在委員會直接提不在委員會提出直接到院會去提提的案子又是叫A和B倒來倒去不知道到底怎麼去 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6947.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6968.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
然後最後現在來質詢的速度 院會根本還沒有交辦下來我們今天到底在處理什麼亂了套 一切都亂了套好 所以我要從我的PPT這一頁開始接起來來啦 公務預算亂山亂洞 錢在預算根本不管啦因為 大家也覺得很好笑對不對 我也覺得蠻好笑的因為我也不曉得要怎麼接了 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6970.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6973.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
我要來看看 這個我們公務預算亂扇亂動啦公務預算 來 部長我自己看到這一次國土署的這個預算被煽動應該是有這四項吧這四項都是跟民生計畫相關的目前可以看得到煽動經驗大概是有這些狀況這沒有錯嘛 對不對生活圈道路交通系統建設計畫汐止的白袍無色宅 租屋補貼業務費 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6995.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
7022.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
這四項沒有問題吧對不對都是有受到影響的很清楚嘛來我想請問新北受到影響有多少有統計嗎新北現在案件有多少因為新北的部分大致上是在大概一個白跑虎大概就是最明確啦因為白跑虎的部分是1.241啦但事實上他還會涉及到更大因為後續的 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
7023.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
7050.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
周邊的這個建設我們也通知新北市政府都暫停了是啊 秀宅就暫停了嘛那我最關心的我去年剛剛爭取到這個林口巴黎的105市道的這個部分是不是有受到影響因為我看到它也是在設備及投資這個也是在生活圈道路交通系統建設計畫裡面嘛對不對報告大概現在大概是因為105是剛開始的計畫對所以它還比較沒有用到錢但是現在的A3 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
7052.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
7059.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
現在A3就是他接過去的那一段就從林口市區接到105的那一段A3進化道路的新闢工程就會受到影響對那已經直接受到影響直接受到影響影響什麼樣影響是不開工因為你剛剛有說我們工程不是去買東西我今天10個本來預算10個然後現在預算少一點我就買5個工程是整個就不能開標了 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
7073.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
7093.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
不是我們是要求他在進度上我們要控管就是他沒有辦法讓他執行太快因為我們錢付不出來所以本來可以執行速度會減慢是第二個就是像土城那個鼎福安居旁邊的那一個12米道路12米道路也是增加了一個喔那這樣的那我的櫻桃安居一定也會受到影響囉對櫻桃安居也受到影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
7094.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
7119.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
好喔 那這個什麼時候可以因為這都是114年本來預計要的那我們現在都是給先執行中的所以可以看到嘛我們今天這樣子煽動預算下來最後受災的都是我們的民生計畫啊那我就不曉得現在這個解凍案到底要怎麼排怎麼速度是如何因為院會什麼時候要交下來根本不知道啊院會會說那是行政院沒有送出來啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
7120.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
7139.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
可是問題是你現在這個統三三成這個樣子數字到底要怎麼排根本現在也沒有人算得出來所以我還是再說一句一切都亂的套一切都亂的套這就是現在立法院的狀況但我們還是很希望如果內政部這邊可以多給院會給行政院多一點意見看怎麼配合的話當然我們是希望預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
7144.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
7157.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
可以早一點解凍因為該有的程序還是要有然後可以讓整個工程整個甚至國家恢復秩序我是覺得這樣是比較好啦好那最後呢那個謝謝部長跟署長我想請問一下交通部交通部的代表 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
7161.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
7179.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
公路局副局長林副局長我在去年4月的時候有跟其他委員共同舉辦了道路交通工程改善公聽會我在公聽會上的時候就有講出我覺得要改善交通環境其實有很大的重點就是我們可以從工程面直接來改善 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
7180.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
7202.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
這同意嘛 沒有問題嘛 對不對剛剛其實劉部長也是這樣說嘛從工程面直接來改善交通環境所以我要求交通部要針對這個十年來喔只有修正過一次的交通工程規範來進行修正當時交通部在公定會上答應我兩個月要提出來啊從去年四月兩個月就是去年六月啊現在是 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
7203.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
7223.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
又是四月了請問進度整體的交通工程的指引這個都已經發佈而且我們整個規劃案都已經發佈在實施了已經發佈在實施了對那你為什麼跟委員辦公室溝通這麼差對啊你確定是已經修正實施了你修正了哪一些公務員13-5號已經正式發佈了 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
7226.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
7237.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
那規範的部分在持續還是有的部分有的急迫了我們有檢討那規範有些部分我們持續也都在檢討所以到底是修正完了沒有你修正了哪一些啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
7240.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
7260.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
報告委員我們現在修正的大概有兩個規範第一個是交通工程規範第二是公路路線設計規範那這個我們有是啊這都是公聽會當時要求的那我們現在都逐步就是跟著有一些規範因為跟內政部國度署稍微有一點差異現在我們要把它融合在一起所以我們就相關的我覺得你們這樣的態度難怪當時會沒有辦法讓各界都接受 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
7265.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
7285.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
因為連委員辦公室要表達的意見我也沒有參與到整整一年的狀況我這麼關心還開了公聽會結果你現在不但沒有送資料來然後連修改了什麼也沒有跟我們說明也沒有讓我們表示意見那現在是什麼狀況我要求你現在你說你修正了而且甚至公佈了請你把資料送辦公室來我們來做一個討論謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
7290.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
7294.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
好謝謝蘇喬惠委員的諮詢下一位我們請黃建斌委員諮詢謝謝主席主席我們有請內政部六部長跟國土署的吳署長六部長吳署長有請 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
7313.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
7340.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
委員好部長早部長大家都知道我們114年的中央政府總預算案在今年的1月21號就已經三讀通過那我們賴清德總統則是選擇在法定期限的最後時間也就是3月21日壓線公佈中間隔了整整的兩個月然而許多部會卻一直不斷地公開說總預算被凍結的金額有多少會造成許多政策自然難行 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
7341.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
7363.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
結果我們現在看到的情況是明明有許多預算提出解凍報告就可以來解凍 競速來解凍但中央卻沒有看到任何一個部會送解凍報告甚至我們有媒體揭露說有些部會官員脫落早就已經準備好報告但是長官還沒有下令 首長受到壓力不敢批核我想這明顯就是透過這資訊影響到我們公務人員 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
7365.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
7384.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
我想中央部會不提報告就算了我們許多部會的首長甚至還在民進黨大罷免的場合裡面大肆的造謠我想民眾的眼睛是血亮的部會裡不趕快送解凍報告一方面又說凍結預算的假消息我想這政府這樣子對整個行政效益是有問題會造成社會動盪 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
7388.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
7416.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
立法院提出預算的凍結案這行之多年這就是因為發現中央政府在編列預算跟執行預算上有不周全的地方甚至監察院跟審計部也會提出來檢討所以才要求中央部會你要提出報告我們告訴全國人民我們的錢要怎麼花要怎麼改進而不是手裡拿著人民的納稅錢你愛怎麼花就怎麼花本席這邊要提供幾個客觀的數據我希望中央政府不要再做巨嬰了 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
7417.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
7430.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
民國95年陳水扁總統執政的時候總預算的凍結比例高達13.24%那陳水扁總統怎麼做他就想盡辦法趕快跟我們立法院的在黨來做理性的溝通盡速來解決預算的凍結 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
7432.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
7447.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
那台推動我們的政務馬英九政府之後102年的中央總預算被凍結是達到10.06%那馬政府依然一切都正常運作為什麼到了今天賴清德總統的時期我們預算被凍結4.06%中央政府說我們什麼都自愛難行我想這前後比較國會人士有公平 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
7454.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
7473.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
今天內政委員會邀請內政部跟交通部來進行市區道路品質改善計畫執行的效益跟檢討專題報告我主要就是針對國土署生活圈道路交通系統的建設計畫業務費的預算的凍結條件本期這邊要先肯定我們內政委員會的劉許廷召委我們比內政部還要進展 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
7474.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
7503.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
還有我們內政部的委員我相信態度都一致就希望能夠趕快來報告我們盡快的來審議讓許多預算可以盡速來解凍執行我想部長你照理應該要請內政部各所屬機關趕快來準備解凍的報告我希望內政部之後能夠拿出更積極的作為態度那我們今天回到今天的主題就當初為什麼會有這一項預算的解凍案就是因為國土署沒有好好的監督地方政府執行社區的道路養護 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
7504.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
7533.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
我們明明知道有些地方政府執行不佳就不斷的給他預算給他經費造成政府部門的這個效益不彰甚至是惡性循環那更重要的這個執行效率不佳不是立法院說的這是審計部跟監察院的報告裡面都明明白白的指出有許多需要檢討的地方因此這個預算的凍結案是基於非常客觀的事實我希望內政部能夠盡快的檢討以提出改善的方案首先我們看到審計部在 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
7534.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
7538.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
中央對地方政府補助管考及執行情形的報告中指出 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
7539.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
7565.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
內政部國土管理署補助地方政府辦理提升道路品質計畫但是補助計畫的審核及修正作業未曾周延完工後效益指標未達原定目標獲得交通補助經費是地方政府連續多年考評成績不佳交通施工品質及完成後的效益欠佳影響整體計畫目標自達成 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
7568.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
7592.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
必須檢討改善這是審計部說的那審計部更舉了許多的例子像是你沒有落實審查或審查作業未經嚴謹導致部分的補助計劃核定之後地方機關的提報是做項目卻不是我們補助的項目的範圍如果這樣都可以補助代表我們中央的省的非常的善慢那還有對於我們部分的地方機關填報補助計劃 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
7594.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
7603.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
他完工之後的效益指標明明就沒有達到預期的目標中央也沒有督促檢討原因就給予他審核同意結案 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7605.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7626.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
這個對於連續多年數區道路的養護品質考核不佳的地方機關你有沒有作為之後我們來申請補助計畫的審核標準甚至還給予更多的經費來補助我想請問這樣子如何有效的督促我們地方機關來改善那而且地方機關考核成績不佳的原因主要是因為交通 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7627.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7644.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
工程的施工品質還有完成後效益有待改善等等這個部分中央也沒有督促針對問題的正確點做通盤的檢討我想這樣要怎麼樣來發揮補助的成效我想每一分的預算都是人民的納稅錢這個代表中央也要好好 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7645.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7666.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
來督促這件事因為你沒有做好這件事代表你們沒有好好的善用人民的納稅錢我想不只如此去年12月10號監察院的林聖峰等監委也有提出報告他發現國土組的生活區的道路既有補助計畫他這個計畫主要是以建設改善市區道路為主人行空間改善為輔 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7668.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7691.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
這個對於我們人行道路設計的改善的優先順序缺乏通盤的這個整體性的規劃機制任由各縣市自行來提補住案希望國土署能夠來改善這個是我們經常願提出的我想因此今天的預算解凍案我就希望內政部國土署及相關部會可以針對這些缺失好好的來審視自己 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7692.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7707.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
跟國人報告我們要怎麼改進而不是說自己做得有多好我本席絕對支持市區大陸品質改善以及友善人行環境的提升那對於報告中提出檢討的事項也希望內政部能夠盡快來做到要針對審計部跟檢察院的意見盡速來改善 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7709.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7730.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
我想今天的專案報告是一個好的開始我們再次呼籲我們劉部長好好的負起責任請內政部所屬機關盡快的來解凍報告我們儘速審議 儘速的來執行那以上本席的資訊到這邊 謝謝好 謝謝黃建斌委員我們休息五分鐘不用說明喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
8190.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
8196.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
好我們現在繼續開會那接下來請劉許廷委員質詢謝謝主席啊這內政部跟國土署有請我們請內政部長還有國土署的首長趙偉豪部長這個早安啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
8215.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
8242.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
這個今天的質詢當然跟解凍有一定的關係但其實每一個題目凍結都是監督的延伸所以我們希望透過這樣的東西來做一下政策對話今天本期的質詢有兩個重點第一個我們探討一下你未來這個生活圈的道路補助的一些用法跟未來因應也許財化法等等上路之後要不要做一些檢討我們可以先進行一些政策討論第二部分我們要針對道路品質的部分跟內政部來請教一下相關的一些規範好 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
8245.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
8268.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
第一個我們有看這大部分的生活圈的道路系統建設計畫就本席的了解這個計畫大概基本上都是補助各個縣市政府各個地方政府針對這個轄內的市區道路做打通也好或者是新闢或者是整修等等的一些相關計畫當然就是希望改善各個城市內部的交通路網的完整性 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
8269.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
8287.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
那這樣的方向其實本席都認同我剛剛聽了我們國土署吳興修署長的這些說明其實也蠻清楚這個東西當然申請都非常非常的踴躍從中央政府的角度來看只有很困擾因為這個餅不夠大大家都希望可以來爭取補助所以執行率也非常好這一點本席都非常肯定不過本席要藉這樣一個機會來進行一些討論這個未來這個財化法要上路對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
8291.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
8306.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
那換言之一定會排擠到中央的預算也一定涉及到市權的調整這本席充分的理解那我希望跟內政部來做一下討論啦就是說我們國土組現在有很多的道路補助計畫其實直接下給地方政府但是你如果財化法之後各個地方政府的經費是增加的 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
8307.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
8327.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
對不對那增加的時候那當然中央沒有辦法像過去一樣有這麼好的預算規模可以全部來做補助所以我今天要討論的是市權的調整的部分我現在要請教我們的部長請教我們署長的地方是說我們現在有除了這個生活圈的道路交通建設計畫是針對各個縣市內部的道路以外針對跨域的道路啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
8328.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
8349.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
這個中央政府有沒有特別的想法我舉一個例子比如說我龜山一個非常大家期待的一個建設這是我們龜山的大平頂地區有一個瘦山路就從我們龜山的平頂地區要銜接新北的新莊地區這其實是一個上班族通勤每天都會塞車的那以前因為龜山的地勢嘛因為有山路的關係所以很狹窄上下班的時候難免塞車嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
8350.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
8376.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
那加上這邊的A7重化區 很多的鄉親搬進來那當然都希望交通可以再改善那這件事情 桃園市政府跟新北市政府其實有做過一些協商好 可是問題來了從桃園的角度 很多人要來長庚醫院來華亞科上班我這邊的住戶也變多了可是從新北的角度 它不見得有助於對新北的這個交通需求來講 它就沒有很大就變成說常常這種跨縣市的道路建設常常有這種 有一個很想做 有一個不太想做 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
8377.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
8402.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
那這個東西如果兩邊沒有達成共識他其實工程就進行延宕的一個狀態像現在桃園市政府其實有一個概念嘛我就進行拓寬然後進行環形高架這當然就有大建設但請問這樣子的一個建設除了兩地縣市政府要自己達成共識之外中央有沒有角色可以報告一下因為過去的確在指引跨縣市的時候那如果同屬生活圈的部分大概都會 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
8402.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
8431.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
也一定會有這個協調啦跨部會因為尤其像這種跨縣市的很可能都會涉及到內政部跟交通部之間也要做跨部會的協調才有辦法那這是第一個第二個就是說這也涉及到經費分配的原則啦所以加上如果未來加上財化法這樣的一個方式那很可能在以後的這個第一個是市權第二個是財化法以後整個經費分配那更需要跨縣市跟跨部會 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
8432.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
8451.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
來做一個整理 像這個案子應該也是其中的一個會遇到的一個案子我覺得我今天提的概念是這樣你現行生活權你講五年要兩百多億嘛對不對每年數十億的這樣一個經費你都是補助各縣政府在縣市內的嘛城市內的道路嘛對不對那這個東西一定會降下來嘛因為我如果財化法我要允一部分出去撥給地方政府對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
8452.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
8477.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
但你也不會全部歸零嘛我想應該不至於會全部歸零你中央還是會有一部分可以調度的經費本身就建議嘛就是說如果未來財務法上路之後我地方縣市政府自己城市內部的經費變多了他城市內部的道路他當然就自己要負責的比例就更高那相對來講你中央的餅雖然變小了我希望中央可以調整一下政策邏輯也就是說我中央可以調度之後我就要以資源跨域的為主嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
8477.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
8486.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
就以資源跨域跨域的建設為主嘛像這樣有些比如桃園想做新北不要那麼想中央來多幫忙是不是就降低這件事情這個成功的門檻 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
8487.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
8513.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
那我覺得中央如果資源變小這樣子來分配來講其實是對於大家都比較好的有各縣市自己要處理的道路你各縣市要多擔負一點責任但是跨域的因為沒有辦法協調可能會卡關對不對所以中央要來多幫忙請問署長你認不認同這樣的政策方向其實中央能做大概是跨域的協調啦因為我想經費的部分最後還是要看分配出來因為其實有時候縣市政府不太想做有時候可能是地理條件的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
8515.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
8537.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
它不單純是經費的問題是地理條件的問題像這條壽山路大概我們之前也有跟新北市政府討論過那它也是覺得因為在它的這個範圍內執行商還要再拓寬的話以現有的地理條件是相對是困難度很高的所以它大概意願度是比較低所以它需要比較多的跨部會跟跨縣市的協調 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
8539.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
8561.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
我想這才是在如果未來要做這件事的話那像我們之前協調這一個和美大橋那就是從台中到彰化那其實就是部會也有協調縣市也有協調他才能有努力的所以那都不單純是經費的問題第四的部分之所以會變成很大的阻力就是因為比如說我要上下山或你剛剛講和美大橋我要跨越河流他的經費 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
8562.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
8579.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
經費是高的嘛所以對於縣政府壓力是大的我才講嘛所以這種跨域的不好處理的你中央要多補助一點嘛我覺得這樣子比較合理也比較公平那各城市內部的未來就是有財務法之後來處理這是本期的一個政策建議不只是這個壽山路的拓寬比如說這個湖山街從我們的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
8580.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
8604.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
龜山的這個兔坑大兔坑地區 銜接到英哥其實也是同樣的道理就因為跨越了縣市的界限但是沒辦法做這我想部長也好署長也好都了解全國各地不只是桃園其實都有很多這樣跨域的道路我希望 因為現在生活圈道路看起來比較沒有支援到跨域的部分嘛對不對其實都有也是有 但是相對來講你如果全部都要照顧的話你一定是增多周少嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
8605.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
8626.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
對不對未來就調整的時候我希望看到內政部跟國土組在政策上面稍微做一下思考怎麼樣在跨域的這樣子的建設上面加大補助的力道讓這些東西可以落地我想這是中央很好的成績啦這是本席的藉由今天的專案報告所提的第一個政策建議希望部長跟署長稍微研擬一下會後用書面來回覆一下可行性可以嗎了解 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
8627.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
8650.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
好 謝謝第二個本期要關注的也叫做道路的品質的部分因為你們這個裡面大概三件事情嘛其中有一段是道路品質的部分很多人都講啊就是說這個路平其實明明就是一個很基本的東西那為什麼幾十年下來大家都執政過中央地方都換過怎麼還是搞不定呢這個希望花一點時間來請教一下這個我們內政部現在齁現在齁這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
8652.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
8666.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
道路品質的問題很多時候都講我們其實都有編列這個重新跑舖的預算嘛然後我們在重新跑舖的時候也都會把品質做好這個我倒覺得問題比較小但只有一個問題是你不可能全台灣的道路都重新跑舖嘛所以一定會有中間的過渡期 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
8667.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
8682.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
那加上什麼管線啊 開挖等等所以真正會造成各地的路不平的問題其實都是有管線工程然後它中間在等待重新跑舖過程中叫做假修復嘛也就是說施工單位先行進行修復的這樣一個狀況好 問題來了假修復就會出事啊比如說這條文化一路這個變成越野賽道 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
8689.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
8714.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
一邊融起來一邊凹下去那其實非常危險那當然就是台電的修復品質不好嘛對不對我想請問的是如果假修復的品質不好現在除了各縣市政府當然我們桃園養工處去開一個罰單除了這種不痛不癢的裁罰之外中央有沒有一套比如說針對假修復的品質有一套完整的規範然後針對沒有辦法做到的有沒有一些懲罰的機制是不是可以請內政部或國土署來做一下說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
8716.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
8737.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
說明一下因為這一個所謂的一個道路管挖修補或者是說在相關的這個建案他必須要接管他必須要做這個相關的挖路在鋪其實在各縣市的這屬於養護的部分各縣市其實都有訂定相關的跑鋪的一個處理的機制那我們在 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
8737.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
8749.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
但是因為他是屬於他不屬於這個條例他不屬於法令所以大概都是用注意事項或者是說在這個復原的部分我准不准許你在我這個做驗收 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
8752.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
8767.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
最常出現大概第一個就是說我的回填品質不佳對這是第一個大問題回填品質不佳那往往就是回填的集配料裡面品質不好那或是說我回填的時候我這個水泥的灌漿的部分也沒有做好那這是第二個 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
8768.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
8789.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
那但是關鍵是在於說他在整個道路養護的部分本來就是地方權責第二個我們也是希望地方政府能夠把它提升到類似自治條例的標準那這樣他才有懲罰的依據否則我們目前知道大多數他是沒有所謂的處罰那因為你有相關的處罰或沒收相關的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
8791.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
8815.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
保證金或相關的那對於這個包商他才會有他才會有這樣的一個約束力這是我們後續能夠要求地方政府來進行的這個部分把它位階提升或許會比較好好我覺得署長今天這個回答非常的具體可以當一回事來處理就是說因為這個道路假修復品質不佳的狀況其實到處都是道路補丁鋪得不好然後造成一大堆的爭議等等 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
8816.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
8831.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
那現有的力道是不足夠的我剛剛其實有看到這個包含當初解凍的理由都在講就是說有關於一些道路的品質啊路夠不夠平啊修復的品質好不好等等其實都是它其實也可以被列為補助的參考我覺得這種東西不過我跟委員報告一下因為我們當時 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
8833.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
8862.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
尤其提升道路品質我們要看的是那一種長期年久失修的年久失修那一個才是因為我們是有整段道路的PCI的這個指數在做一個你既有的標準這我理解因為我看你的書面回覆其實寫得很清楚也就是說其實品質越不好其實表示跟地方政府財務等等他更需要中央的支持這一點我完全同意但我希望未來你把假修復的品質我只是針對假修復這件事情也就是說我有開挖我有請其他人等等然後他假修復修得很爛的 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
8862.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
8882.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
你要有一些處罰的機制它可以是你中央召集各個縣市政府來作為比如說位階的提升啊或者是標準的修正或者是你可以善用你補助的這個額度把它納入一定的KPI或者是核定的辦法我覺得這是可以思考的方向這種東西不分縣市的因為這種東西一定要做好跟大家的生活品質有關啦好不好 是不是針對這一部分我們一樣來研究一下我說明一下好了就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
8886.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
8899.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
大概以中央來講大概第一個就是說我們是可以針對相關的國營事業就管線單位我們大概年度都有做一些檢討那這個部分是我們可以來做但是因為相關的這一個養護的一個標準跟這個條例的訂定 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
8903.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
8932.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
那這個我們是來督促地方政府來訂定這並不是說中央自己單獨立法我理解 我的意思是說你可以召集縣市政府來商量嘛然後大家標準 要說明一下因為其實省紀部他當時的報告當然以我們來講啦以我們來講我們會覺得大概對一些非六都的縣市是相對不公平非六都的條件本來就差那所以即使我做了一些補助他也不可能快速的提供當然不能以這樣的理由 又說他的交通條件不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
8933.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
8962.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
那表示執行不佳其實這有點雞生蛋蛋生雞的問題這個其實我覺得所以我才講重點只有假修復嘛因為假修復大家都有所以我才會跟網友報告說這就是為什麼您當時在提這一件事情說要來提這個專案報告我們也會覺得怪怪的但是其實我想都是尊重大家否則以我們來講我們會覺得原來的這個內容就寫得很奇怪了原來的內容就是寫得很奇怪的東西這個提案的內容都會可受公平這個是大家都已經知道的事情這一段時間了好 等一下但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
8963.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
8975.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
該走的程序都走而且其實喔藉由這樣的東西來做政策研討我覺得對大家來講也不是一件壞事部長要補充說明嗎您剛提到有關道路品質修復不佳的部分那個其實有一些縣市地方政府他們會透過議會來制定這個單制條例 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
8979.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
8990.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
這種單行法規它的約束力才會比較強所以我們譬如說以我們以前高雄市在處理的時候就是你新的道路有的時候已經鋪好了不到一個月就開始要有人要裝電線、水管或者旁邊有新蓋的大樓那其實你只要道路的品質有一條開始破壞掉其他就完全破壞掉 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
8999.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
9017.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
那所以透過養護的這個單位呢它在地方縣市政府的執行率比較強其實我們會鼓勵每個縣市地方政府尤其是非六都的部分它如果能夠有這樣的單行法規來強制可以開挖的單位呢它一定在一定的法定時間或一定的品質的狀況之下才能夠確保否則中央如果幫忙他們的話只會像剛剛署長所說的因為你本來就不好了 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
9024.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
9041.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
然後就要開挖越多然後修復越多那就變成是一個惡性循環那道路的品質就不好就會被審計部然後有告訴我們說哪個地方有很多不同的缺點所以其實這是中央跟地方政府要一起努力的好 謝謝部長的補充說明其實我的概念也是這樣就是說你有什麼樣的方式可以召集可以鼓勵嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
9042.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
9057.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
比如說我願意做單行法規然後加強管束的我又覺得補助的時候優先性高一點我覺得這就是中央可以處理的事當然我會給你空間因為我們想把問題點出來我一定要給你行政機關一點時間去溝通去嘗試然後我們再來檢視成效啦好但這個假修復的問題如果可以在 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
9058.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
9075.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
這個我們這次政府的任內有一個很好的升級對於地方政府中央怎麼都會加分啊所以今天本期提兩個第一個是未來的道路圈的補助希望多增加跨越的部分第二個針對道路假修復的品質要求希望我們的政府大家中央跟地方都要再更積極一點希望我們國務署也好 內政部也好把這次當一回事來辦好嗎好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
9089.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
9093.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
他們換了嗎好好 下一位我們請吳啟平委員質詢好 主席我們與會同仁請郭突署我們的署長吳署長有請委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
9114.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
9137.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
好 市長好 今天針對我們生活圈的道路交通系統的建設計畫本席也比較關心的就是人行道的問題那我在這邊我要首先來肯定我們國土署因為在我的選區 不管是土城 山峽所有的人行道的一個大改變 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
9138.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
9166.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
連市長到土城他也說去經營記者會記者會這個中央路整條道路的人行道都全部都更新這是我們所有的市民最有感然後三峽包括我們三峽的老街的周邊人行道我們也都一併的去把它做改善那你這個經費還是非常龐大光是土城中央路 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
9167.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
9195.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
就兩億六千多萬還有你三峽還有我們的周邊的生活生活圈都是真的做了非常的多啦所以我在這邊喔我也要再次的肯定我們國土署在這幾年真的為我們整個社會做一大的改變那你看一些校園校園的周邊周邊的人行道的一大的改變的安全行走 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
9196.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
9206.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
那我本席比較關心的就是針對我們去年我們的永續提升行人安全計劃113年至116年4年編了400億那未來這個經費會不會因為砍了預算凍結的預算會不會造成排擠 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
9217.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
9246.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
我請署長來做說明報告一下就是說永續的部分其實他在目前來講我們還是持續的在受理審核受理審核其實現在也是在等最後的這個院的這邊因為他有通山的部分還沒有做一個確認所以我們現在到目前是持續受理案件但是審核的部分我們就先審但是要等最後的結果才能再做核定 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
9246.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
9269.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
那去年度的部分照樣執行的部分因為他有去年的預算那所以這個部分會照常來執行那但是接下來就要看這一個後續的這一個解凍的部分那另外一個還就是財化法的部分如果財化法最後通過那最後通過要我們做重新做預算的一個修正的話那這部分我們也會再找幾地方重新來討論預算分配的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
9272.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
9295.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
謝謝,謝謝署長的說明其實你說在這幾年,真的我們國土署預祝到我們地方的建設經費真的是非常多我光是我的選區啦,主席光是我的選區喔你看啦,國土署不管是人行道的改善,還有道路的改善真的這幾年我們都還是很肯定 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
9297.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
9311.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
所以在這我也在此跟署長研究就針對我們三峽有一個N3隧道那新北市他們也要提出計劃但是N3隧道已經會到72億那N3隧道要是打通的話可以改觀到說我們三峽老街太扯的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
9319.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
9323.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
所以這也在我們生活圈裡面是不是說在這個部分我們要怎麼來在我們中央我也知道現在政府都要勤奮但是在我們的先前起步 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
9333.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
9356.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
的部分要怎麼說來來配合新北市不管說整個的隧道的設計經費啦還是我們未來要推動你可以分一二三期多無所謂只要有推動對我們我們的地方他的交通不然你說在老街我們車路你今天就沒辦法走這裡可以說徹底來改觀這個地方的我們的交通網順暢是嗎現在署長說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
9363.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
9367.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
可是這條路這條路其實是另外一個解決三峽 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
9370.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
9397.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
其實地區假日這種擁塞很重要的一條路那因為他也分了三段這三段加起來總經費其實很龐大大概有將近70億的這個預算那所以這個部分其實第一個經費龐大 第二個就是說他出來銜接的這個道路的這個路段那這個當然新北市政府還必須要跟高工局再協商清楚因為他穿過的這個部分到底要走哪條路線因為我們到目前還不確定 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
9398.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
9417.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
那但是我們其實之前委員這邊也有關心新北市政府也有來文有來函表示說他們未來想要增設這一個部分那我們也是請他先跟高工舉先協商好確認那個路線那不過因為確認路線他同時也要做環評他同時也要做環評所以他的關鍵還要等環評 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
9418.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
9440.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
進行了以後都市計畫會送過來那我們協助他做相關的變更以後那就會再把這個完整的計畫書再提交給我們我想這部分我們跟新北市政府這邊都會注意這個進度就會把它實施成我們在行政上能先配合我們會先配合他來進行好 謝謝署長這樣我可以徹底解決塞車的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
9442.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
9459.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
再來一點就是我們上上個禮拜我們到土城的司法園區去會堪那我們那個森林公園森林公園那一個也是我們新北市最大的公園那未來因為停車的問題我們一定要納入停車問題公園那麼大那你停車不方便 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
9467.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
9488.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
也會造成整個交通的紛亂尤其是未來我們地方法院地檢署都在那邊跟看守所所以你的停車的配置我們還是要注意一下要跟新北市大家要怎麼配合這個停車可以來做改觀是啊 因為相關件就是說我們現在都市界已經過了 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
9493.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
9519.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
工廠在做現在如果要增加這個停車場的部分可能就是這個污水處理場用地因為之前新北市政府曾經表達過說可能暫時需要性不高那我們我想這我們有請土叢處地政司跟土叢處這邊再跟新北市政府再做確認如果那一塊污水處理場的確未來在他整個的污水下水道系統裡面不需要留這塊地的話那而且但是呢大家對於這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
9521.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
9540.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
公園的需求又大那或許依照順著地形現在就可以做一個地下停車場然後上面再做這一個公園那這樣大概對於呃民眾的需求大概一件二個啦都夠得到啊還可以包括去森林公園前面停車方便啊所以這部分呃我想放 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
9541.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
9568.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
近期大概部裡面跟新北市政府如果協商確認的話我想就可以照委員的這個就照這個方式來進行那到時候我們也會請新北市政府再積極跟交通部或相關的單位再爭取看有沒有相關的停車場的興建經費那上面我們再用這個重劃的用區段徵收的工程經費再去幫他施作這樣的一個公園綠地那這樣我想都可以解決委員所提到的這個停車場的一個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
9570.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
9594.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
好謝謝謝謝署長好謝謝署長的答覆好謝謝感謝謝謝好謝謝吳啓平委員下一位我們請洪孟楷委員質詢好主持謝謝麻煩請我們交通部公路局副局長公路局副局長有請 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
9600.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
9614.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
來副議長本期間特別感謝曹偉排這個市區道路品質改善計畫不管是內政部不管是交通部這兩大部會其實都對於市區道路有非常重要的責任那 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
9615.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
9641.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
我先讓你看一下這個在上個月就是我們淡水地區關渡大橋關渡大橋因為砂石車而造成急刹而造成整個泥漿翻覆那一天剛好是禮拜五的下午所以說那一天真的道路非常的庸塞關渡大橋我想副局長應該很了解吧是它是交通量可能是最大的一條一個橋墩對不對那在 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
9641.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
9660.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
淡江大橋今年年底完工之前其實都還是大家認為是說關渡大橋他的這個交通量非常需要來立即改善我先請教因為我們看到這樣的一個新聞當然那一天立即有做處理不管是地方的警察或者是我們相關的公務同仁那有沒有釐清到底這個肇事責任以及對後續這個駕駛的球場 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
9664.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
9688.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
公務員報告因為這個案子是我們公務隊在處理所以我這邊沒有了解但是這個依照規定的部分還是就是我們會去追究如果是因為是砂石車的部分我們還是會去追究砂石車的有公共危險相關的法律責任嘛對不對好那本席才看喔我們去打大型砂石車擊殺泥漿翻覆 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
9690.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
9705.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
發覺這不是特例這其實蠻常出現的我隨便搜尋一下2023年5月土石噴一地五股交流道前2025年3月砂石車擊殺害4名騎士慘摔跌還有 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
9709.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
9734.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
剛剛我們吳清明委員所關心的土城也有大型砂石車擊殺還有中壢2024年9月所以大型砂石車不管是擊殺而造成這樣子的一個道路整個的狀況甚至造成後面用路人的一個危險那我想請教不管是公路局不管是相關單位我們有沒有針對這個部分可以來做更進一步的管制或是檢討 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
9735.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
9761.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
跟委員報告就是就法令規定的部分讓他罰處罰這個是一定要的然後賠償一定要的但是假設就是說我們現在討論是防範未來的部分我要講的就是說我們會針對他的肇事資料是哪家貨運公司造成所以如果他一定期間超過幾件的時候我們就開始去跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
9762.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
9777.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
我們監理當然就是直接找混公室直接訪查做教育訓練做處理的是這也是本席想要了解跟本席想的就是說有可能這些是累犯對因為一般來講通常會發生這個狀況有可能是超債 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
9778.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
9792.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
有可能他就是債比較多然後他沒有保持適當的安全距離或者是說他讓前面的摩托車或是汽車來擊殺所以累犯的部分我們有所謂的不要說黑名單啦但我們有所謂的這個警示資料有管制有統計那目前 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
9794.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
9820.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
比較常肇事的我們有哪些掌握資料我們業者我當然不能我還要再查但是就是比如說像台二線剛剛委員談到的有幾個快速到位尤其進出的時候會造成尤其是超速跟超債歡呼的這個最多所以我們都有在管制而且我們都有在注意尤其是業者的部分我們去做輔導 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
9822.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
9848.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
然後做教育訓練這個部副議長這個私下請提供這本席相關資料就是說我們怎麼樣協助業者輔導管制以及真真正正這種黑名單的部分當然如果說真的是交通意外沒有辦法避免但是如果說是有某些業者他特別警示或常出現這樣的一個狀況當然行政機關應該要介入來那另外喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
9849.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
9865.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
淡江關渡大橋確實是非常嚴重那我們之前現在新北市府也在做這個所謂的淡北道路那我們也有在提出說要有關渡新橋的規劃那我想請教副市長淡江大橋管理單位是誰 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
9866.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
9877.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
丹山大橋未來管理單位是我們公路局公路局是關渡大橋管理單位是誰我們也是我們公路局也是公路局是那關渡新橋未來管理單位或是施工計畫建設是誰 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
9880.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
9906.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
這個目前應該是未來應該會納到市區道路那其實它道路定位要看新北市政府未來的規劃的定位才能決定那現在關渡新橋到底是由誰因為很多民眾也在期待啊是目前在新北市政府在辦理可行性評估當中新北市府辦理可行性評估是好可是另外一點喔副議長這個中央地方應該是一體共同同心來去做尤其是 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
9907.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
9936.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
北海岸地區我想你不否認淡水現在人口越來越成長巴黎也越來越多人口成長那但關渡大橋的使用量也是全台最大嘛那關渡新橋連接淡水這一端台二線是管理機關是誰台二線目前管理機關也是我們公路局那關渡新橋連接到巴黎端大家也期待是說他能夠連接到64線64線管理單位是誰也是公路局那你會不會覺得很奇怪 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
9939.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
9965.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
我今天三座橋淡江大橋是公路局關渡大橋是公路局結果我要新做關渡新橋結果是要新北市政府那關渡新橋淡水端這邊連接的道路是公路局巴黎端這邊連接的道路64線也是公路局結果我中間的橋樑是要新北市府那未來如果做起來的話那變成是特立獨行欸 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
9967.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
9993.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
淡江大橋 關渡大橋是公路局管但是關渡新橋是新北市府那連接兩邊公路局管中間這段橋樑是新北市府所以 局長 副局長我現在先提出來 當然過去有很多的 不管是說我們那時候爭取淡北聯外道路的時候行政部門也是遲遲沒有拍板定案 到最後才拍板那也已經晚了兩三年的時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
9994.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
10011.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
那但是我們現在期待的是關渡新橋趕快來施作那是不是能夠再跟新北市府來共同討論到底現在可行民工做完之後施工團隊計畫發包等等以及後來的維護管理我覺得這應該一比一討論吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
10012.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
10035.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
跟委員報告這個是我們一直跟新北市政府都有在討論新北市政府他針對淡水和兩岸的道路的規劃其實他是整體的整個範圍在做處理的所以他不是主管我們的省道在處理因為整個我們省道是主幹但是其實車流都是區域性 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
10036.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
10062.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
所以他整體的交通的路網怎麼建過是我們是要跟新北市政府一起來討論我們現在就講我當然是要講是一個更上位的計畫要怎麼樣來去做運輸管理因為我們不能只建零不建山只建樹不建林所以我現在在討論的我現在在提出來是說第一什麼時候新北市府可行性評估現在是新北市府這邊公務處要來做報那之後也會報給公務局 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
10066.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
10085.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
也會報交通部審核到目前為止還沒有已經過了兩年了那是不是能夠關心一下因為2022年就核定的計畫嘛那時候就蘇貞昌院長還來到我們那邊拍板說淡北道路然後另外那時候也宣布說要關渡新橋嘛但我真的不希望說我們中央部會到最後只變成是 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
10088.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
10108.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
補貼出錢的單位 而中間的管理維護變成是跟地方兩個 講好聽點是各自負責 這樣講不好聽點就互踢皮球啊副局長 這個是不是能夠 我知道委員的意思啦 你剛剛把層級拉高當然 因為淡江大橋是公路局 關渡大橋是公路局沒有道理關渡新橋 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
10110.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
10129.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
這樣一級吧根本沒辦法 因為關路新橋是接淡北道路市政府管的那他未來要接到底是接台六市還是要應該未來還是接台六市啦所以需要溝通嘛 是兩邊的銜接也是公路局好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
10130.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
10144.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
副議長什麼時候能夠比較明確跟新北市府討論針對關渡新橋的部分他也給本市一個後續的追蹤報告他還在其中報告還沒出來那我們會再催促新北市政府加速趕快來處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
10145.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
10173.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
後續是不是也請給本席相關資料你們怎麼跟新北市府那新北市府現在的一個狀況我們一起共同再來這個是一個起點但是本席會持續追關渡新橋也是我們當地民眾非常期待不要說淡江大橋當然很期待但是淡江大橋也蠻久時間了那年底會完工本席也期待是說我們現在討論關渡新橋不要也拖那麼久時間我們一起來努力好嗎謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
10176.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
10188.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
好 謝謝侯孟愷委員的質詢 下一位我們請丁薛忠委員丁薛忠委員改書面那我們下一位請徐宇貞委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
10201.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
10204.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
謝謝主席 我們請內政部劉世芳部長跟郭圖書 吳興修署長劉部長 吳署長有請 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
10210.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
10230.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
委員好部長好我想請教部長就是目前國土署在辦理道路改善有三項計畫正在進行那目前國土署執行情況也良好而且地方鄉鎮市公所也都給予高度的評價那現在還有幾個問題要請教部長跟署長就是關於經費補助的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
10231.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
10244.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
因為114年的總預算總統已經公布了那立法院針對地方補助經費沒有三減也沒有凍結那為什麼現在補助的經費遲遲無法撥付給地方政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
10245.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
10248.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
報告委員是這樣子就是說在我們3月21的時候呢是確實是總統公布所謂的114年的這個相關的預算但是這裡面有一項我所瞭解就是說至暗難行的部分在於說原來啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
10263.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
10282.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
一共有通山303億的部分我們已經處理好但是有一個就是行政院立法院要求行政院去自行去解決什麼叫山洞的部分有600多億那600多億的這個預算呢目前行政院跟立法院好像還沒有溝通好所以我們對最像是有一定的但是我現在的問題是說我們對於地方政府的補助經費也沒有刪減也沒有凍結那為什麼這個部分沒有辦法 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
10292.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
10301.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
報告委員按照預算在執行的過程當中如果你已經是過去在長久執行的預算正在執行當中的話呢在我們的預算的這個撥補方面比較沒有問題新增預算的話就會有這個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
10311.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
10341.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
有些是業務費的部分也是被凍掉那是不是可以請市長說明一下好了因為如果說是執行中的案子就是生活圈跟這個永續的部分執行中的案子大概都沒有問題那這是新增的提案的部分就是新增提案的部分那就是因為這個院還沒有做最後的確認的話我們也不確定但是我們審查還是維持有審查那也就是說不是新增的部分你們應該經費都要撥下去了是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
10341.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
10367.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
就是執行中的部分比較沒有問題執行中的唯有問題是所以你現在提的是指說還有286案還待核定的這些案件嗎我說明一下前瞻的部分就完全沒有辦法因為前瞻沒有通過前瞻沒有通過所以前瞻的部分是完全我想請一下署長就是說前四次這是第五期嘛前四次四期的這個前瞻計畫你們也常常是遇到先核定 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
10368.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
10395.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
之後然後經費才通過才撥補下去的有這種狀況吧我說明一下好了因為如果說現在前瞻是因為這一期完全沒有到目前完全沒有通過所以我們審查完以後也有核定但是我們就現在告訴他因為預算完全請問一下署長過去四期有沒有這種狀況就是我們的前瞻的預算都還沒審查完我們就已經有這個公告合定然後只是等經費下來再撥補下去我說明一下好了 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
10396.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
10424.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
次期的過去的前瞻有凍結但是都是書面報告而且我們都在1月份就直接提解凍書面書面只要送過來就解決了那現在為什麼不提呢現在第一個這是專案報告第二個就是說就像剛剛部長所提到的因為院還有這一個部分但是前瞻是完全沒有提啊前瞻是在立法院完全沒有排案 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
10426.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
10432.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
不是總預算好那這個部分的話只要立法院有排案的話你們就可以馬上來處理嗎預算沒有三讀前瞻預算沒有三讀對那以往前四期我知道有遇到這樣的一個狀況所以前瞻預算沒有三讀就我們馬上排案的話就馬上可以來處理是這樣嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
10447.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
10474.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
那就要看大院的這個部分那針對這個部分的話我想請教一下就是說因為其實提升道路品質的計畫今年就要屆滿嘛那地方公所人家有改善這個道路品質的需求那所以請問一下這個時候115年的預算正在進行籌編能不能有新的計畫繼續推動沒有因為前瞻就到今年就結束了但是前瞻結束之後未來的這些道路品質改善計畫這些的 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
10476.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
10497.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
這相關的工程那應該是要有什麼樣子的一個方式能夠持續來進行因為它原來就是特別預算在公務預算的原來的編列裡面這個本來就是屬於地方的權責我剛剛講的是115年現在在編列預算嘛那所以你們是不是有應該要提出這樣相關的預算我說明一下就是原來在公務預算的認定裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
10499.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
10507.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
提升道路品質也就是道路的重新跑鋪是屬於地方的全責如果沒有特別預算的話公務預算在過去在編列的時候他是不同意的 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
10508.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
10538.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
那所以你現在的意思就是說只要地方的預算不足的話你們還是可以編列公務預算來去做這樣的沒有就是公務預算裡面因為這是屬於地方的權責所以這個部分在公務預算裡面也就是說現在我們的財化法通過之後那當地方有經費的時候就可以用這筆錢來去做那也是地方政府要自行自行那就是說現在早到這個今年結束之後有關的品質改善計畫就跟國土署沒有關係了是嗎不是是因為我們就沒有就不會再編列了 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
10538.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
10560.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
對 那如果有需要編列你們會不會編列有需要也是要院這邊因為主計單 主計處的 主計中處的就是有需要你們應該也要提出請主計處這邊看是不是能夠整個預算的通盤檢討嘛 是這樣嗎不過因為現在遇到財化法也遇到這樣的問題那就是事權分工的問題嘛 大家可以來好好的討論一下要重新再討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
10561.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
10582.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
那另外這個想請教一下部長就是你最近全台跑透透參加這個人民事頭家的活動那因為您發言的內容其中參雜的一些我們可以先看一下影片那個聲音好嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
10589.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
10591.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
可以暫停一下嗎沒有聲音 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
10602.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
10604.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
這個聲音可以弄出來嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
10638.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
10644.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
等一下 已經有車聲了因為早上有事故 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
10649.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
10664.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
好部長您在這個影片當中提到的就是說我們砍了200億的這個預算喔導致75萬的出戶族領不到補貼喔請問一下我們有哪一個提案砍掉內政部200 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
10665.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
10684.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
報告委員我對於裡面講說公然造謠說謊是完全否認的我跟委員再重新講一次你給我一分鐘的時間第一個我們在今年有送到行政院所謂的300億中央擴大租金補貼住宅補助等這些部分送到行政院要求行政院給我們撥補總數總數是400億的相關的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
10688.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
10698.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
那但是呢在住宅基金裡面呢有一項就是如果他要新撥補200億的話需要行政院的中央政府總預算通過才能撥補給我們那這個部分呢在行政院包括我們的院長他在同樣多次的這個演講裡面也提到這裡面有一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
10708.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
10721.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
總預算可不可以比去年多中央政府總預算增加2806億的時候有一個擴大租金補貼的新建設宅就是200億我現在所指的這個部分但是呢因為有一些委員請問是國民黨還是民眾黨把他砍掉的嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
10723.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
10729.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
我們在那個最後在立法院院會的時候是這樣子舉手通過的行政院的114年度的總預算您再給我一點時間然後再來就是很多人把我們自己在國土署裡面的部分引用的是台灣民眾黨的那個10%然後3%變成41.4億所以兩個黨團裡面所說的部分是指國土署的那個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
10751.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
10763.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
跟我所說的這個200億的這個租金補貼是屬於新要放到我們的內政部裡面來做的住宅基金是不一樣的所以呢我不清楚說為什麼有一些委員呢沒有清楚在所有所講的狀況之下剛剛的影片部長應該有提到剛剛的影片你有提到就是會影響75萬租戶是 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
10773.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
10785.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
報告委員原來在上一年度的時候我們的租金補貼是50萬戶但是我們後來在跟行政院要求的時候就是我們的預估可能會達到75萬戶所以現在所說的200億是從這個75萬戶裡面的比例在往前推的好那請問一下國土府那邊我們針對剛剛講的這個400億中凍結10%的這個41億的會凍結41億的部分會讓75萬人全數拿不到租金補助嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
10803.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
10831.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
這就算法上啦就是說因為我們現在變成說每一個月至少要31億到36億之間的數字所以最有可能就是到11月就完全不夠了所以說到11月嘛 是嗎因為你租金補貼是每個月發放的所以到11月 也就是說11月之前你只要提出解凍案就應該沒有這個問題吧也不會讓75萬租戶拿不到吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
10832.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
10846.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
對因為他變成說因為現在還有一個中央政府總預算的這個統三的600多億還沒有確認所以我們現在變成到底他最後能不能給我們這個我們也不知道請問一下這個414億的部分我們這個案子是凍結10%沒錯吧是 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
10849.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
10870.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
對那所以剛剛你也提到嘛到11月之後可能才會影響影響到12月份的部分那是按照如果說其他都沒有沒有改變的話就是照這個方式對那是不是只要你盡快的提出這個案子的解凍案送到我們這個我們這個委員會來提出解凍的申請我相信我們的招委一定會盡快的排案這個第一個是 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
10871.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
10895.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
對 程序問題就政院要跟立委這邊 立委院要交辦那所以是行政院的問題囉也不是 就是我們剛剛回到剛剛那一個基本的問題因為還沒有辦法自愛難省通案的部分 剛剛你們提到630幾億的這個通案我們覺得可以先跳過 但是非通案的部分其實就可以先提出報告啦非通案的部分咧 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
10896.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
10924.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
通刪的部分303億行政院都通刪了但是以這個案子來說我們就凍結百分之十立法院要求就是說有多的636億要行政院自己回去要看你要刪哪裡凍哪裡但是目前為止我們並沒有這樣的一個定案非常致案難行沒有任何一個提出來致案難行的地方大家共同來討論我們也提出來了嘛就是說有什麼致案難行的地方就提到立法院來大家共同來找出解方嘛而不是現在擺爛你知道嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
10925.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
10942.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
報告徐委員在行政院提出復議案的時候已經把至愛難行跟違憲還有違預算法的部分都已經寫清楚了但是因為表決之後我們還是行政院沒有報通過立法院的這個其實以這個案子啦其實我知道郭平淑都已經在抱怨了其實這個案子早就已經把解封的報告寫好只是 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
10943.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
10972.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
因為長官請問我們希望說自來水我們還是希望大家趕快為了人民為民生為主啦因為部長我覺得我們還是要以民生為主啦希望這個部分趕快的來去處理能夠解凍就趕快提出來我們的召委都已經提前來做這樣的專案報告就是希望節省時間所以只要你們提出來就是要拜託行政院是不是能夠希望立法院的院會可以體現那是不是請行政院能夠提出好嗎好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
10974.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
10998.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
好 謝謝徐立貞委員我再次跟委員會報告說明啦就其實當然我們理解啦就是說因為你有一個通商的壓力在那個地方所以當然壓力會很大不過我想喔這個我們之前有辦過專案報告的幾個案子包含比如租金補貼的四十幾億嘛對不對還有今天這生活圈其實有一千七百五十萬啦那這些東西其實都跟民生建設是有比較高的關聯性我相信即便在內政部裡面討論的時候你大概也不會優先尊嚴這一部分啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
10998.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
11014.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
所以我想這一部分先行解凍應該是不衝突的我們期待趕快來提案 趕快復委我們早一點把這個程序走完 以上好 下面我們請陳雪生委員質詢陳雪生委員 陳雪生委員不在鍾嘉斌委員請質詢鍾嘉斌委員 鍾嘉斌委員不在下面我們請鄭天才委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
11026.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
11046.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
主席 會委員 有請署長吳署長有請署長好 辛苦了今天內政部的報告裡面特別提到生活圈道路交通系統建設計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
11048.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
11050.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
總共這個111到113年度已經編列208.68億元歷年達成率達98%以上這個首先第一個還要請這個署長回去以後 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
11066.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
11074.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
給書面資料補充給我 就是說針對111到113各縣市各縣市的那個核定的一個情形好那這個114年度也是一樣 你這邊已經這個預計辦理92項工程其中工程72件預算達成率預估95%以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
11097.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
11123.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
這個表示你們已經也核定了嘛對不對對就是它是執行中的我知道大多是執行中的114年度喔對對對因為我們這是一個中長期計畫對我知道所以它從開始核到用地取得到好幾年包括114年度也提供給我好從這樣的一個報告也顯示出顯示出 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
11124.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
11149.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
這個很忠實的一個報告好大家一直在關心的民眾黨團的提案生活圈道路交通系統建設計畫市區道路這個解凍條件寫得很清楚一個月內提出狀況報告並經同意後使得動滯好如果我們從這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
11152.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
11178.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
立法院三讀通過中央政府總議算案是在1月20幾號然後當然總統一直到3月才公告中央政府114年度的總議算案就算是從那個時候到現在也差不多一個月了 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
11180.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
11187.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
還不到那什麼時候可以送來什麼時候可以把這個解凍案狀況報告送來 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
11188.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
11215.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
好跟委員報告啦其實也感謝委員就是說了解我們生活圈對這個各縣市政府的重要性那現在來講的話因為剛剛有提到就是說因為院還有一個通山600多億的部分還沒有辦法分配完成這一個部分我們沒有辦法去做一個體驗的專案報告的一個通山是指山簡嘛對不對對好有沒有山簡這個部分到目前還沒有辦法確認不是生活圈道路 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
11216.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
11246.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
桑和謙道路這個寫得很清楚喔凍結的條件 凍結的理由凍結 解凍的條件是就要把狀況報告送來啊跟刪減有什麼關係呢呃 跟委員報告還是有關係你認為你想要刪嗎你想要自己刪嗎沒有 跟委員報告因為這個還要到院這邊還要 還有不一樣刪減通刪是通刪對不對是要你行政院去調整是 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
11247.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
11261.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
1月到現在調整不出來通刪就是給你們一個機會而不是由立法院來決定通刪你們來刪多少比例就按照這個來去刪所以從1月20號假設1月20號立法院刪除通過到現在2月3月兩個多月了還無法 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
11273.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
11297.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
所以這個部分 這不是理由解凍 解凍案喔我了解我們都是事務官出身這種解凍案太多了我們經歷很多各種不同的政黨執政我們都是事務官嘛 對不對所以這個解凍的條件非常清楚凍結多少也很清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
11298.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
11319.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
不要去拿我們作為事務官我也曾經在陳水扁總統執政的時候對不對我做事務官常常要去說服政務官為了人民的權益不要受到政治的影響為什麼會認為說行政院會認為說因為這個通商、刪減到底多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
11327.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
11334.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
我們事務官很清楚就是因為柯建民總召在 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
11336.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
11363.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
韓國瑜院長在主持協商的時候就不協商嘛我想就是因為這樣所以我才跟委員報告就是說因為通山的狀況不明所以我們也很難為通山的狀況不明我們也很難為所以這跟解凍案不一樣是過去的解凍也很容易但是現在的解凍不容易尤其是涉及到人民權益的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
11363.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
11382.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
我們看這個涉及到人民權益的部分這個是國土署在2月17號的一個新聞你們發布的新聞特別提到114年度國土管理業務預算414.67億用於持續推動300億中央擴大租金補貼專案 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
11389.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
11415.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
社會住宅直接興建包租貸款等包括貸款利息補貼目前遭立法院凍結41.47億你的信封稿也是寫得很清楚是凍結41.47億沒有刪減喔所以呢你這邊也是提到啊這裡面呢呼籲 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
11418.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
11435.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
請國會支持相關預算趕快解凍所以現在我們作為事務官為了租金補貼為了社會住宅各方面要趕快把提出狀況報告的 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
11437.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
11462.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
解凍報告趕快送來當然現在行政院下令不能送理由就是因為通山那個根本不是理由因為解凍條件非常非常的清楚而且就算是怎麼樣也要去說服部長甚至要說服行政院所以這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
11462.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
11484.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
都不是理由跟委員報告 租金補貼的解凍報告可能到時候還要跟大院再商量因為當時的解凍的理由是不滿國土計畫但是凍結了租金補貼還有其他項目我們都要去討論沒有關係 就寫清楚所以到底是要就寫清楚 所以這個部分時間的關係這個部分都還要跟大院這邊再討論因為這個部分的確也是我們很少見到的我們來看 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
11492.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
11496.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
凍結率我們看歷年的凍結率114年度是4.6%了曾經最高的是95年度13.24% |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
11505.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
11530.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
94年度12.71%102年度10.06%以歷年的凍結數來講4.6% 104年度算是很低很低的所以那時候為什麼都可以就是大家要溝通大家要溝通而且我們事務官不要陷入 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
11530.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
11558.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
了解不要陷入政務官那種大罷免的那個原因要去製造這個部分我們不要陷入事務官不要陷入這個部分我們長期是事務官好 剛才你有提到財政授之法案法你在別的委員的質詢的時候你有提到財政授之法案法財政授之法案法要修正是賴清德當市長的時候你那時候在台南市政府服務 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
11559.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
11587.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
然後那個賴清德總統當行政院院長的時候也提到要修財政收支劃分法要給地方更多的經費而終於完成了賴清德總統的願望完成了而這個財政收支劃分法我們國民黨的當初提案然後說得很清楚這個經費要從稅出剩餘 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
11588.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
11614.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
每年的幾千億的稅租增益然後超增稅收的每年的幾千億以113年度來講超增稅收5283億從這裡去支付這個三千多億的財產收入房給地方就足足有餘所以我們作為一個事務官要想辦法爭取現在的預算繼續維持 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
11615.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
11633.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
超證的稅收 稅計剩餘拿去給地方這個就是達成賴總統當行政院長的時候一個願望應該共同的支持所以這個時間的關係我們作為事務官要想辦法說服政務官好不好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
11636.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
11647.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
好 謝謝鄭天才委員的諮詢下一位高金素美委員改書面再下一位林俊憲委員林俊憲委員林俊憲委員不在再來我們請李坤城委員諮詢謝謝主席我們請這個國土署的吳署長吳署長有請 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
11666.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
11684.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
來署長好這個本席有看到你們2月9號有發一個新聞稿就是說這個114年度呢包含這一個提升人行安全跟生活圈道路計畫的這些預算有被3減了7.55億凍結了43.8億這個數字是否正確對最後是到目前為止通山是4.0這生活圈的部分是通山4.01億那這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
11697.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
11715.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
業務費業務費有被凍結那也被刪減跟凍結那這個部分是比較明確那永續的部分的話是影響是還好是業務費部分那所以剛剛那個數字後來有變動嗎對後來有變動是就是說這個刪減的沒有到7.55億對是生活圈的部分是4.01億然後凍結的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
11728.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
11748.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
凍結是這個它的部分是業務費啦凍結部分是業務費 對然後會影響到就是說我們不是有這一個提升人行安全的這個計畫這個會不會受到影響這個部分是也是主要是在業務費的部分那所以在目前的話我們還是有這樣在審核凍結是凍結30%嘛 對業務費我記得內政部是凍結業務費是30%嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
11755.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
11768.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
所以這個也含在裡面就對了但是我們現在就是永續的部分還是有持續在受理那就是說你們有一個113年到116年的4年的計畫那包含這個內政部是有140億 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
11770.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
11798.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
內政部是260億 交通部有140億總共是400億的一個提升行人安全的這個計畫那除了這個計畫之外你們還有一個是所謂的街道醫生就是說這個全民參與街道改善的平台就是用民眾去投票的啦那民眾投票我看你們這個去年有這個7月有這個投票的結果然後有八件那八件你們是說這八件就是中央政府會全額補助就對了沒錯 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
11799.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
11817.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
那這個預算會不會受到影響這目前來講沒有因為這是去年已經核定的案子那這個有包含在新北的話有包含這個學府路淡水的學府路是在淡江大學的周邊它的票數是蠻高的所以你們是優先來做處理啦好 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
11819.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
11845.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
目前來講新北市政府在淡水的部分它是一整區在提那三重的部分它有提了三重 我現在就問你三重因為它這個民眾投票這還有包含這個 除了淡水之外在三重有一個文化北路文化北路它也有109票那我請問一下 因為你們這邊說如果說是在這個你們有8案是中央政府全額補助然後如果這個得票數在50票以上呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
11845.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
11871.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
就喊請地方政府來評估這個案件的可行性那如果有需求可以進一步申請經費的補助那我請問一下齁在這個三重文化北路這一段它那個票選票數也是很高啊109票那請問一下那這個新北市政府有這個提案來申請這個可行性的補助嗎是這樣啊 這個提案的部分我們有通過那有請新北市政府提那新北市政府告訴我們現在在評估中因為它一直採取下來啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
11873.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
11890.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
他就是一個算是一個晚上會有夜市啊對對對所以他可能新北市政府還在評估他到底是要做這個變成說部分時段的人行專用呢還是還是他是部分的人行專用這部分我知道他們還在評估當中 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
11891.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
11918.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
所以那個還沒有送上去就對了對對對我們有要他提案但是他還沒有來還沒有來申請因為這個上一次三重區有很多里長也跟我反映就是說他們記得印象中有這個投票那這個投票在文化北路這個票數也蠻高的可是到目前為止好像沒有任何動靜所以目前就是新北市政府還沒有送上去對對他在評估就我們剛剛講他到底是要部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
11919.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
11921.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
部分還是全部 他現在可能還要再考慮 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
11923.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
11952.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
那就是那我也催一下新北市政府那如果既然中央有這個經費可以補助的話這個不要把這個經費浪費掉因為事實上如果按照民眾提案的票數來講應該算是意願很高因為表示造成的困擾也很大對我看這個跟這個淡江大學周遭的只差了大概四五十票而已對他跟應鑽路是同票數那表示其實瓶頸的狀況很嚴重好那我再請教你 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
11953.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
11981.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
就是說這個侯友宇市長他3月24他有到三重區他有一個這個行動治理然後他有特別在提到說三重果菜市場他說他任內希望這個三重果菜市場能夠讓他通過但是我印象中啦印象中就是說國土部署有一直要求新北市政府第一個要做這一個公開的這一個展覽他們還沒有辦另外一個就是說就是說因為當時候他們來申請新北市政府來申請是原地改建 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
11982.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
12009.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
那原地改建後來因為有一個所謂蘆洲的一個重劃區要迎合灣計畫所以他想要把它移過去那可是也沒有得到這一個蘆洲地區居民的同意然後在三重地區的話因為當初我們變更的同意讓它變更成商業區的條件是說原地重建那所以說我想請問一下國土署說目前對於這個三重國債市場目前的進度是到哪裡了 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
12010.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
12033.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
報告一下就是之前因為也有跟新北市政府說明如果你們政策上確定要搬過來那我們就是會請他就已經請他你要把三重的案子重新修正因為他104年通過那當時是市場原地重建所以他必須要回饋的公用設施比例是很低的 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
12034.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
12058.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
那但是你現在如果把它移過來你原地商業區的公共設施的比例現在就明顯偏就會明顯偏低你必須要重新修正你必須要再報一個修正案送過來給內政部小組委員會確認以後你要兩岸並同重新公展那讓市民都了解第一個確定這個案就要移到蘆洲第二個原地的 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
12059.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
12084.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
改建的條件就變更那這樣不會造成兩邊的條件一直不穩定我部都委會要一直移來移去但是到目前為止我們只有收到公文說他希望那一個蘆洲案可以重公斬但是不符合我們另外一個要件是說三重那一個要重新提報一個案件上來的這樣一個要件他蘆洲公斬也還沒有辦還沒有還沒有然後在三重的話因為就像你講的那其實當初讓他能夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
12085.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
12102.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
變成這一個變更成商業區其實是給它很大的一個條件然後其實因為它是市場會在那邊就像你講的這個公共的設施其實比例沒有這麼高它現在如果改成純商業區的話那個比例會不一樣啊對 要求的公設比例就要變高所以它現在都還沒有送過來是是對啊 所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
12106.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
12134.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
這個侯社長他就說他希望他任內能夠把這一個案子把它通過那基本上新北市政府這兩個要先做處理啊沒錯 一定要而且並同處理好我們才會統一來審議然後統一要求他兩個案子一起從公宅所以這個是要並行一起來處理就對了對 這樣兩邊的條件才會一致那總不能一個過了結果這一個條件還不確定那這樣的話到大會是絕對不予受理這樣的案子不會受理去審議的好 最後再問一下這迎新未來城 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].start |
12135.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].end |
12160.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].text |
就是說這個原來這個壁華國中他遷走了那一新未來城那後來這一個新北市政府他們有做一些比例上面一些調整那他供應性好像有把它增加了是是是那他現在這個最主要他有那個他的那個全領全領的這一個出租套房這一個出租套房這個部分衛福部最後也有同意認定了所以這個部分他已經送過來我們有小組會再排審 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].start |
12161.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].end |
12188.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].text |
會再排審那這部分大致上比較沒有問題也就是大家部會的意見也都有共識的話我們來審查會比較明確那大概有沒有什麼一個期限說這部分這個審查大概可以通過了沒有我們會加速這個部分我們會加速來處理因為畢竟這個案子也放很多年了那最近排審的這個都審應該是都審小組委員會那確切的時間我再跟委員在做報告那再跟我說明一下好謝謝署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].start |
12190.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].end |
12192.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].text |
好 謝謝李崑禎委員的諮詢 下一位我們請徐信委員諮詢謝謝主席 本席請吳署長吳署長有請 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].start |
12218.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].end |
12240.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].text |
委員好 署長好 署長請教一下今天內政部的報告是不是貴署所寫的執筆的是不是國土署 是本席想請教我們在背景說明的時候特別提到生活圈道路交通系統建設計畫是辦理道路的新闢貨拓寬 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].start |
12242.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].end |
12271.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].text |
針對目前各直轄市縣市政府既有道路功能不彰危險或交通瓶頸來進行系統整合那我們想了解就是說你們你們現在跟地方的是不是都是地方提案然後你們審查然後撥經費嗎那現在如果地方這個有些路段民眾長期的反應而且一直沒改善那所以你們在 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].start |
12273.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].end |
12298.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].text |
這個審核的時候你們是用什麼樣的機制說明一下就是說生活圈他送來的時候其實我們看的不會只有看那一條路我們其實也是看周圍的環境他改善的效應我把我題目講的更明確一點你們錢一直撥每年這樣預算全國這樣下去但是有些地方他的路段長期一直沒有改善這種情形怎麼辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].start |
12300.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].end |
12311.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].text |
應該這麼說 看它是哪一類它有的是屬於非都市土地 那可能就是我們跟交通部有分別那我現在直接講 新竹產業園區內其實就以前的新豐湖口工業區 它現在叫新竹產業園區 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].start |
12321.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].end |
12332.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].text |
那這裡面我想你應該很熟啊工業三路勝利二路還有榮光路那一段那邊長期反應都沒有改善工業區的部分是屬於在經濟部 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].start |
12335.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].end |
12363.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].text |
工業區內工業區內是經濟部所以縣市政府不能提要提到經濟部他經濟部他之前也有他前幾年我印象他有做但是他不是全部都在做他有時候也會跟我們協商有一些在拜託我們或交通部做那有一部分他自己做可是可是這個如果他是縣道呢縣道縣府不能提案給你們不能改善嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].start |
12364.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].end |
12368.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].text |
說明一下如果工業區範圍內還是屬於它才屬於經濟部的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].start |
12369.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].end |
12393.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].text |
工業區的周邊主要道路如果在獨基內就是屬於我們屬於你們的嘛那榮光路是它主五線嘛主五線是我們縣道嘛是是是對所以這一塊那如果是提升道路品質的部分那就是在前瞻裡面就是它路況是做更新而已而不是有拓寬生活圈是主要你可能有拓寬有有有它需要拓寬 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].start |
12395.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].end |
12415.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].text |
地方要求拓寬多年民怨沸騰所以我現在想知道你們審核的機制到底是怎麼樣說明一下這個部分我想我們再來跟縣府或跟公所了解看為什麼他們過去從來沒有提案因為有可能他覺得那個徵收費用可能太驚人或怎麼樣他有時候也不太敢提案是因為這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].start |
12418.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].end |
12434.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].text |
有可能因為有時候地方政府尤其到鄉鎮公所那個層級他會很在意講到這個我可能要請部長部長您也來一下因為我看到我們這個有所謂的道安總動員平台那個好像是交通部管的對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].start |
12435.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].end |
12457.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].text |
那你看它就是道安道路安全道安應該是道路交通安全道安總動員平台那國土署這邊也負責一些市區道路那這個怎麼整合所以我請部長來主要就針對因為這可能有跨部會的問題如果你現在講的就是產業園區外面的道路的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].start |
12458.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].end |
12474.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].text |
那我會建議說委員可不可以就是說我們國土署跟交通部或者是跟經濟部啊共同去看一下大家把它查清楚就是全署的單位是誰然後來決定然後再跟地方政府來做溝通道安總動員平台它這是一個平台 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].start |
12475.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].end |
12499.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].text |
去年6月24號才上線我們的行政院長都還有開記者會那他一直在定期公佈各縣市交通事故以及開放民眾通報路口改善建議那像這個既然他的利益是如此可是這個好像沒有真正發揮功效因為民眾反應也不一定有效再來就是我們發現 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].start |
12502.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].end |
12517.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].text |
這個系統這可能交通部要上來因為這整合的他這個網站統計到今天我們上去看他還只統計到2月25號所以部長不好意思我請您還有交通部今天是 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].start |
12520.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].end |
12532.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].text |
副局長副局長副局長來對那像這個網站上今天已經四月份了結果四月七號了結果我們現在統計只到二月二十五號這個系統 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].start |
12535.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].end |
12552.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].text |
在放假期間網頁斷線你們這個系統不穩有一個說我要通報路口改善結果完全無從反應所以我也要同步表達就是說這個系統好像完全沒辦法work |
| transcript.whisperx[434].start |
12555.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].end |
12580.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].text |
那個副局長一副這個完全不知情然後這個上面本席也要建議這個應該是應該可以隨時及時更新可是它其實整個直到2月25去年6月我在這邊要凸顯第一個跨部會因為民眾的很多事情它不是單一的單位像今天這個可能內政部跟交通部都有關 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].start |
12581.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].end |
12602.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].text |
那我们的中央政府真的少一点政治斗争多一点为民服务啊那这个去年六月才开记者会的到现在根本不work而且完全的也都好像摊在那里不到一年然后统计整个就好像摆烂在那里 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].start |
12604.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].end |
12613.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].text |
報告委這個系統其實隨時在更新尤其是填報的像回報的民眾一來他直接是上網填報的 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].start |
12614.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].end |
12634.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].text |
它上面就寫統計至2月25號啊你真的要我秀出來對啊統計至2月25號啊然後親民廉價你們應該知道那個民眾很多要反映的我們當然也是在準備質詢稿我們發現完全上機啊你們也沒人知道啊這個部分我們回去再查一下啦但是那個更新的部分是 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].start |
12637.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].end |
12665.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].text |
地方政府這個路口做完了地方政府馬上會上這個網填報完成他是隨時再更新你不要說一套做一套你去了解實際情況那部長你也請回座我最後請署長署長我們今天講道路品質其實現在你應該知道市區道路的話其實人行道跟自行車道的需求越來越大我相信您了解 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].start |
12666.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].end |
12679.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].text |
所以有關人行道跟自行車道的話事好像中央沒有什麼這個相關的一些措施報告我們在去年已經有公布那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].start |
12681.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].end |
12700.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].text |
市區人行設施的這個相關的規範都有了自行車道的建制有統一的標準沒有人行道的部分有自行車道在交通部它有公佈因為我們發現我們三月份新竹縣整個道安事故是您知道嗎這個竟然 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].start |
12703.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].end |
12732.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].text |
去這個三月份今年三月份的統計去年在騎自行車死亡的人數竟然是成長率百分之百那所以這個部分就是說人行道跟自行車道的部分這一塊你們怎麼樣來改善因為我們常聽到民眾跟我們反應就是說我走在人行道上我很容易可能會被自行車撞到 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].start |
12734.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].end |
12760.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].text |
因為自行車道的劃設很多地方不足然後現在UBIKE全國都一直在進行我們新竹縣也在這幾年非常蓬勃的發展所以是不是你自行車等於說騎自行車死亡跟受傷的人數逐年這幾年是不是因為我們整個中央的法規還有我們的這個實施一直沒有跟上民眾生活的腳步 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].start |
12763.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].end |
12782.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].text |
因為過去在人行道的設計上跟自行車到底是共用還是分隔其實交通部都有頒布相關的規定那當然我想在很多老的城市尤其像新竹市區本身道路就比較小那能夠擠出人行道大概就很不容易 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].start |
12782.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].end |
12806.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].text |
那如果要在人行道裡面再去做分隔可能會更難所以我在猜這塊博土署有相關經費嗎沒有 我說明一下因為它是在你的標誌標線上要去做共用或區隔所以這個是在這為什麼是交通部因為在所有的這個道安規則裡面都是在交通部交通部它是執行單位 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].start |
12809.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].end |
12821.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].text |
對 也就是說這樣的還有法規法規的部分那地方政府執行單位那但是經費你們這邊有嗎改善的部分是我們有所以你們改善所以我才會說明他們也有嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].start |
12822.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].end |
12841.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].text |
有他們也有場域不同都市計劃區內的話大概是我們我現在都講都市計劃區內所以我說明一下就是說人行道做好了他到底是要用共用還是分隔就是市政府要決定因為標準都有 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].start |
12842.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].end |
12868.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].text |
由市政府決定沒有一個通用的法規或什麼就是它交通部有頒定的規則是共用跟分隔都可以就是你地方政府依照實際情形去決定是要共用還是分隔那所以可能是新竹市政府還沒有去做好這樣的一個規定沒有啦我是管新竹縣啦新竹縣的部分也沒有去可能還沒有去做好這一塊的這一個分隔的標準新竹縣也很多地方沒有啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].start |
12869.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].end |
12892.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].text |
所以第一個建人行道您的意思是說這是縣市政府的責任應該這麼說人行道的部分經費我們來協助但是做好了你到底是跟自行車道要分隔我從頭到尾問的時候你們在審核經費你們在給地方當然地方都很希望你們給但是民眾跟我們都希望你們給下去我們是看得到成果的 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].start |
12893.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].end |
12916.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].text |
我們當然也不會覺得說你給我那個不好但是你在審核的時候你怎麼樣把經費能夠包括它的執行對執行成效你們有在管嗎有這根委員報告我們大概每年就足跡都會做一些檢討足跡都會做一些檢討每年檢討前一年的前一年對那尤其大概做好以後會跟前一年的 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].start |
12917.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].end |
12929.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].text |
就做好執行一年以後會跟之前沒有做完之前的交通事故去做一個比較所以你不會針對他他做了有沒有符合需求 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].start |
12930.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].end |
12950.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].text |
符合需求的部分當然就是因為你地方政府提出這一些但是剩下就是有一些就變成民眾再來反映的時候那我們當然也會去做檢討這也是我們為什麼會有推一個街道醫生的那樣的一個計畫就讓民眾來提出他們的一些看法街道醫生是國土署提的嗎對對對 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].start |
12952.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].end |
12979.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].text |
也就讓他們提出來有哪一些看法那我們會針對那樣的路口去提出來看看要怎麼去改善或是路段要怎麼去改善那這也就是有時候我們會接受民眾投票我們每年都有讓民眾來投票那還有做醫生 接到醫生的一個檢視是做這樣來協助大家看怎麼樣改善好 謝謝好 謝謝徐信英委員的質詢幫委員會我們中午不休息下一位我們請徐富格委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].start |
12990.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].end |
12994.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].text |
謝謝主席我們有請劉部長跟吳署長劉部長吳署長有請部長好署長好部長我想過去您的這個政治資歷非常的豐富從地方到中央歷練過很多的職務但是我想您也感慨萬千尤其這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].start |
13015.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].end |
13034.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].text |
針對我們這一屆立委這個立法院很多的這個議案的審查甚至很多總預算的一個審查我想你有很多的感慨所以你之前也在開了一個記者會針對我們這個前瞻基礎建設的這個一些相關的規定預算的部分也提出一個看法 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].start |
13035.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].end |
13062.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].text |
那過去屏東縣我想我們在這個財力有限的狀況之下許多的這個生活圈道路還有市區道路的改善是必須仰賴中央來支持那請教一下部長目前這個前瞻基礎建設第五期的預算還沒有完成三讀程序那總共有439個案子卡住了那請教部長目前屏東縣有幾個案子 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].start |
13063.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].end |
13072.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].text |
部長這邊有瞭解嗎那目前來講執行中的有37案那大概3.2億的經費 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].start |
13074.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].end |
13089.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].text |
那後續會不會因為總預算跟財發法的影響最主要前瞻如果沒有審查的話這些案子的後續經費大概就會是但是問題現在目前看起來這個排審的時間也遙遙無期那針對這樣的狀況部長跟署長有沒有什麼樣的看法 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].start |
13095.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].end |
13121.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].text |
跟徐委員報告 徐委員當然對於這些前瞻的預算非常的關心那前瞻預算現在第五期確實到目前為止是遙遙無期所以我們現在國土署也非常的努力就是說原來已經跟縣政府講好的已經是一個既定的然後我們已經有核定的部分的話那我們就先走那其他的話就是縣政府先報上來我們再繼續做審核的工作 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].start |
13121.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].end |
13143.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].text |
那看看說前瞻預算有沒有可能可以比較有其他的方式來做比較好的溝通否則大概是沒辦法就是一直下去因為前瞻這是第五期了那再下來的就我所了解應該也沒有第六期的前瞻預算那這裡面還有可能一部分要回歸到是由中央政府或是地方政府的公務預算來支出那另外一個就是說我們也在考慮 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].start |
13144.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].end |
13163.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].text |
未來的財政收支劃分法如果有確定說是在立法院通過完全沒有其他的複議或是其他的爭議的話財政收支劃分法裡面可能有一部分的預算會要請縣市地方政府自行來負擔部長我想你非常清楚縣市政府對於整個 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].start |
13166.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].end |
13185.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].text |
跟中央的一個權責是不一樣的那尤其過去很多這個事權的部分很多都是必須仰賴中央來支持但是你這樣打下去之後我想未來真的很多縣市即使有錢也沒辦法執行而且這個錢確實也是不夠部長報告委員我沒打啦不是啦我說是可以用的藍白我們國民黨跟民眾黨的立委這樣打下去之後這米還要怎麼結業 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].start |
13192.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].end |
13218.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].text |
確實會有困難第一個現在的中央政府總預算再加上目前立法院還是要求行政院自己要處理636億要刪或者是動哪一個部會的預算那所有的部會包括我們在內政部所屬的部分除了租金補貼還有一些道路的部分然後還有其他衛福部長照有關或者是國防部所以你要刪哪個地方動哪個地方完全是沒有辦法處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].start |
13219.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].end |
13241.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].text |
所以立法院如果沒有跟行政院達成共識的話我們其實很難把114年的中央政府總預算好好的執行下去那如果參照以往的經驗所謂的解凍的部分的話以往我們1月就提這個解凍案可是真正解凍書面而且是書面不是專案解凍完到真正可以執行都是到5月或6月 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].start |
13242.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].end |
13261.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].text |
現在已經是4月這個專案報告也好或是說立法院跟行政院還沒有達成共識說這個636億要如何處理的狀況之下尤其是像我們這個是部會裡面所牽涉到不管是下售到縣市地方政府或者是有些跨縣市的部分的話沒有人敢事先先用啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].start |
13262.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].end |
13280.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].text |
尤其是如果你要有招標程序因為我常常對外講就是我們有一些預算你是一筆的啦一筆10億20億如果你沒有辦法10億20億都給的話我們不可能事情做一半然後好像就變成說只是做一下紙上作業沒有完全做很好的政策的評估的話會有困擾因為我們有時候審查的關係造成我們撥到地方政府的時候他們資訊率也是壓力很大 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].start |
13286.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].end |
13295.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].text |
這是一環扣一環啊我又不能先去找啊也是覺得預算要當同歸我們當然是尊重監督啦但是這個監督能夠好好的那個大家來溝通的話其實會比較好而不是說就砍頭式的這樣把預算弄掉的話對我們來講是非常大的困擾我想我要替我們屏東鄉親來發聲我們也不希望因為總預算卡關造成這個整個這個屏東的建設受到影響啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].start |
13316.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].end |
13344.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].text |
那我想最後一個針對這個我們人行環境的改善署長過去我想我們都支持這個交通便捷也贊成這個人行環境的改善但是目前還是有發生一些的百姓對這個改善後的狀況有雜音那尤其很多的這個商圈包含我們很多的這個原本鄉親這個交通使用的習慣 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].start |
13345.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].end |
13354.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].text |
因為改變之後他們都覺得到底這改是好還是不好包含我們這個有時候貨車要停車的空間也不見了這個要 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].start |
13355.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].end |
13380.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].text |
這個消費者的這個車子也不曉得停到哪裡去這就這樣的一個亂象你們的街道醫生能夠發揮什麼樣的功能跟委員報告啦因為的確在地方政府在執行就會像剛剛委員所講的有時候他的因地制宜的時候他過度強調我就是要做出來我就是要做出來但是事實上像我們人行道跟騎樓也可以並計來考慮 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].start |
13382.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].end |
13409.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].text |
也就是說當你再去考慮這個人行道的時候你跟騎樓之間的互動你到底要怎麼去處理而不是我一定當然有時候委員會建議說你盡可能做實體或做標線但是如果另外一個可能我跟騎樓之間的關係如果處理得好那我也不一定要弄到這樣就不會像委員所講的有時候要擴張出來之後很多停車駕駛不可以甚至下回停車駕駛不可以蘇理你看這個圖面上顯示的 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].start |
13411.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].end |
13414.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].text |
你看人行道圍出來AutoBike |
| transcript.whisperx[472].start |
13416.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].end |
13442.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].text |
車輛人車正道還是沒有改善啊我了解我的意思是說所以他在調的過程當中其實要多一點討論啦尤其跟地方地方民眾的一些討論這樣會比較妥適所以為什麼我們的計畫現在永續的部分不會要求他一定要當年做完因為過去前瞻的部分會需要但永續為什麼要可以讓他有一到兩年就是要多一些時間去溝通去調整 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].start |
13444.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].end |
13465 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].text |
那避免產生民眾不適應我在我們屏東好幾個路口我發現我們的標誌 標線都做到100分可是我們問了很多人 你知道這什麼意思嗎看不懂啦 回過頭啦所以有什麼需要溝通 那些東西需要溝通做到100分的標準 難道不會有車禍發生嗎還是發生啊這是要怪政府還是要怪北省 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].start |
13469.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].end |
13484.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].text |
沒有 當然 我有我們的報告啦我剛剛說的那個溝通那個溝通包括說民眾的使用習慣尤其我們南部都是騎摩托車的習慣他有時候機車的習慣會跟行人的習慣本身就很容易衝突 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].start |
13485.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].end |
13496.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].text |
所以你今天要修正這樣的一個機制出來的時候政府在相關的宣導、觀念的功能上都還有很大的改進空是,所以我還是建議不要等到完工之後再來檢測再來檢測檢測檢測檢測檢測檢測檢測檢測檢測檢測 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].start |
13500.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].end |
13525.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].text |
沒有才子啦 又這個狀況啦我跟你講一下我們以前的經驗啦通常這麼大的路口要改善的話大概會經過縣政府的道安匯報那這個道安除了縣政府以外還有像交通警察或者是地方上的社區發展或者是這個里長一起來提供意見也就是說我們要改善這些路口上面的交通除了降低他的死亡死傷以外最重要是要能夠合用不是好看啦不是好看就好 漂亮漂亮這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].start |
13529.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].end |
13557.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].text |
不是我們要的理由我贊成你的看法是我希望多溝通這個部分但是在多溝通的過程當中就是變成要有頭人在那個地方講清楚大家可以各退縮一下我們也處理過像台北市的一樣那個有收到的人行照就大得不得了就兩三輛的貨車那麼寬可是他們就這樣做那就可以降低他們的市場所以我說的說明會要開說明會一定要開而且不是做交代的開法 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].start |
13558.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].end |
13576.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].text |
一定要能夠把偷人家但是道安會報宅先是這麼希望能夠照開會比較好根據他的案件還是希望這個能夠在有時候在施工或是規劃的時候因為我們不希望說這個做好的時候是為了讓警察去開罰單我想不是這個意願不是一百分的人行環境就能夠解決一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].start |
13576.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].end |
13600.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].text |
不是不是要能夠實用而且要合乎大家的日常生活譬如說我知道你講的部分譬如說圓環或者是剛好在做生意或是夜市那會有晨昏之間的這個交通的狀況需要處理那這個都大家要講清楚那地方上的人提供意見的話通常這個道路施工單位尤其是以國土署為主的都會尊重地方的意見對我們一起來努力謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].start |
13604.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].end |
13617.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].text |
好 謝謝徐富貴委員下一位請吳思堯委員吳思堯委員吳思堯委員不在下一位請何新淳委員何新淳委員何新淳委員不在下一位請王宏威委員王宏威委員王宏威委員不在下一位請張祺凱委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].start |
13636.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].end |
13639.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].text |
現在全民都團結不分朝野都在應對川普關稅的這個核彈可是我發現好像民進黨一直在造謠當中 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].start |
13665.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].end |
13693.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].text |
我看你禮拜三月三三吧還在講這個租租的這個補貼被凍結了兩百億啊大徐議員也問你你為什麼還在拗這個題目還在照樣報告委員我剛講得非常的清楚您可以去看一下包括行政院所公布的或者是立法院所公布的部分所有的在野黨所有立法委員這是有你拿出來給我看有任何一個立法委員提案凍結了你兩百億的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].start |
13695.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].end |
13717.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].text |
租補貼的錢嗎拿出來給我看報告委員我已經講過了在行政院有一筆預算400億那個是我們內政部要求要擴大租金補貼由去年的50萬戶增加到75萬戶所以這個是新撥補的要有200億元到內政部然後內政部呢在給國土管理署的部分的話在台灣民眾黨裡面所說的30%動10%41.4億的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].start |
13722.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].end |
13741.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].text |
那是內政部國督署 但是我現在所指的是行政院給內政部的200億的租金補貼叫擴大租金補貼跟新設宅的部分這也在我們那個卓院長的報告裡面有提到對啊對啊 你拿出來看看 有任何一個立委提了凍結200億嗎報告委員 在立法院的三讀通過的過程當中就是有兩個黨團舉手然後刪掉的 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].start |
13750.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].end |
13775.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].text |
沒有這個提案啊 有嗎 凍結的部分 凍結你拿出來給我看有嗎 中央政府總預算我唸一下可以嗎 您方便嘛中央政府總預算增加2806億那裡面的擴大租金補貼跟新設宅是有200億元也就是說如果114年的中央政府總預算沒有通過的話這個是屬於新增的那行政院就沒有辦法撥補給我們200億給我們的住宅基金 報告委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].start |
13779.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].end |
13806.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].text |
沒有人提案去凍結這200億啊任何一筆都沒有在立法院的三讀通過我是以三讀通過為準所以我有跟委員解釋你把他換成他所有新興的嘛對不對就沒有人砍掉這筆不是不是換成他本來就是新的預算他不是延續性的預算沒有人任何提案去砍了你說的這2000多億嘛更沒有講你說的這200億啊有嗎你提任那個案子給我看啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].start |
13807.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].end |
13832.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].text |
你這個是完全擴大而且是扭曲的跟住宅補貼有關係真正有過提案的就是上個禮拜上次我不是有跟你們講過嗎有幾個關鍵啊第一個他已經排除就沒有砍任何一毛錢租屋的這個補貼對不對這上次我清清楚楚給你看有你有看到我們的提案嗎這是第一類第二關鍵字就是說他一下增加了105%去年是編202億對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].start |
13836.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].end |
13851.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].text |
今年變多少?414億欸更重要的來來我們來上一下小學的這個數學好不好你在講說被動了錢動了40億所以沒幾個人贏對不對你已經增加了一倍414億刪了2.73這2.73還已經排除喔不包括租屋補貼喔好終究是刪完之後動了1%40億 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].start |
13863.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].end |
13891.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].text |
你一年我已經問過你了,我還閒聞去你內政部喔,去國土署門喔你的租屋補貼一年是多少?3870支事實上到目前為止,今年搞不好還花不到372啊你到11月底到12月,錢都夠用啊所以三個關鍵,第一個已經排除沒有刪,對不對第二,你增加了兩倍之後你剩下的錢終究動了10%你都足夠用到11月底,12月底啊怎麼會有問題? |
| transcript.whisperx[490].start |
13892.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].end |
13912.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].text |
是不是這樣這個數學本來應該看得到嘛對不對你錢就44億了啊你變成這個預算清清楚楚啊砍掉了273已經排除喔雖然被砍排除喔你還剩下372億是不是你需要的你今年就372啊有夠啊怎麼也沒夠錢是不是這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].start |
13917.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].end |
13925.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].text |
我要回答嗎報告委員我再把它原來的程序跟委員很簡單報告一下請你給我30秒就好了我們在8月29號去年8月29號的時候有個預算案送到立法院裡面去那國土管理業務的編列預算是414億6726萬2000元裡面含撥補住宅基金400億元 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].start |
13942.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].end |
13965.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].text |
這個所謂的撥補住宅基金的400億元不是我內政部給國土署而是行政院要給內政部這個沒有錯吧好那113年的住宅基金的撥補只有200億所以我們希望行政院呢要能夠給我們400億也就是說我們需要增加200億的這個錢那如果沒有的話只能動資原來的200億多分200億200億所以大家都會混混混 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].start |
13966.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].end |
13974.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].text |
混在一起然後在總統公佈總預算案的時候總統公佈預算案為法定預算的時候呢我們的撥補200億才能動之那所以這個院會表決的過程當中裡面包括有凍結要給致用的預算我現在所說的就是我們的中央政府總預算也就是我們那個行政院卓院長在提到的 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].start |
13992.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].end |
13998.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].text |
中央政府總預算增加了2,806億裡面有一部分叫擴大租金補貼是200億我現在講的是這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].start |
14000.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].end |
14029.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].text |
這部分有任何人砍了它嗎沒有而且這是完全扭曲的這是現在可以用嗎現在可以用嗎報告委員現在我們全部的捅山捅洞的部分是303億那立法院要求行政院自己去處理各部會要刪減的部分有636億這個636億到目前為止不管是立法院有沒有跟行政院溝通或說明好目前為止都是未定案 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].start |
14030.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].end |
14054.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].text |
那既然目前為止是未定案的話我們的部會是在行政院全部統籌之下當然都是未定數所以未來的租金補貼是不是真正能夠撥補到兩百億我們也是有一個問號請委員多指教你說你新增兩千八百零六億後來後來砍了不是我們是整個行政院兩千八百多對不對對這是砍了多少錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].start |
14055.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].end |
14067.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].text |
全部的山形了多少939億左右你說的是桶山嘛對不對不是不是桶山抱歉桶山桶洞的部分我們都處理好了叫做303億整體三讀之後這是104年的整個因為就我的理解20002075嘛那裡面還扣掉1000億的台電對不對是青蛙嘛對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].start |
14078.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].end |
14104.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].text |
跟這個也不是全部砍這個金額啊從全部砍這個金額這裡面還剩下很多啊第二個是你親口剛剛講的你說的是統商部分939嘛對不對統商不是939就是一定要處理掉的939統商的是303億還有636億可能要分散到各部會去那怎麼樣分散到各部會去行政院還沒有從立法院這邊得到一個正確的數字所以我們有一點不太敢輕舉妄動 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].start |
14107.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].end |
14131.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].text |
第一個這樣很牽強啊因為你只有630你636跟2800多這是幾分之幾絕大部分都可以用吧報告委員因為我不是在行政院的這個層級我只回應我的內政部可以處理到的部分我知道這第一點嘛第二點我現在跟你說我剛剛就算給你看你的金額是夠的嘛對不對第二個這個提案你知道因為到目前為止登記租金補貼的大概已經有70萬戶以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].start |
14133.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].end |
14138.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].text |
對 保證還有一個大問題提案裡面還有一個很重要的你三個月內你要提 我上面有問你對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].start |
14139.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].end |
14168.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].text |
你要趕快提啊報告委員我們今天在程序提出來的時候已經有提到了今天算是業務報告不算是解凍報告而且那裡面有提到的是專案報告這個專案報告要立法院依照程序交辦下來才有可能處理對嘛所以我們提案裡面就要你三個月提嘛立法院的院會立法院的院會不是內政委員會我們內政委員會的委員今天都非常的清楚我們今天的報告事項是以報告業務為主 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].start |
14170.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].end |
14199.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].text |
畢竟議會只是交給委員會來審對不對對嘛我尊重立法院的各項程序處理我們尊重立法院的各項程序處理上次連那個主席都有跟你解釋過了嘛那我們提案裡面很清楚你就三個月就趕快提嘛好我歸納一下我們歸納拜託這個事情不要再有誤會因為這牽扯到很多人的權益啊豬補貼多少人拗待補貼等你現在害怕事實上第一個關鍵是什麼沒有刪掉他任何一筆錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].start |
14201.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].end |
14224.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].text |
點解你三個月你本來就要提解凍嘛我上次要提醒你除了賴清德以前公司的那一筆凍結到的格點才給凍結案沒有不過的啦你趕快提三個月時間都已經到了第三個我現在進一步用數學給你看你凍結到10%拿掉你的錢還是夠的怎麼可以不花錢或者是讓人家覺得有恐懼感呢趕快解決問題啦好不好OK |
| transcript.whisperx[504].start |
14228.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].end |
14235.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].text |
不要再讓那個要租補貼的人有沒有擔心主席上次已經講了盡快因為排給我們就趕快審好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].start |
14237.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].end |
14266.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].text |
好 謝謝張祺凱委員的質詢這我們再補充說明一下啦 謝謝這個今天的跟解凍是有關的啦因為解凍有很多要件嘛其中要件如果有要專案報告你就是要排專案報告嘛我如果等你通通送進來萬一送了三五個案子卡在一起這樣很麻煩嘛所以現在先把這走完到最後送進來之後我們還是要進討論事項還是要處理但是就可以審去尋答這個最花時間的流程啦所以是有關的但今天不會處理到解凍案因為你剛剛還沒有送進來還沒有附委嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].start |
14266.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].end |
14275.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].text |
那我們希望行政院趕快送第二個我剛剛聽了不管是徐宇貞委員或者是張啟凱委員針對的租屋補貼還有劉思芳部長之間的200億大家認知不一樣啦因為行政院的擴大新增的200億有沒有編進來其實是有嘛因為113年編200嘛114年編了400嘛所以其實是有進來那張啟凱委員跟徐政委員意思是說我們沒有去刪這個200億嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].start |
14290.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].end |
14315.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].text |
因為卡到其他的東西可能動之一時間有困難所以他誤會是在這個地方但是我想大家都不會反對今天不管是藍綠白委員都想要監督政府但是針對租屋補貼這個事情大家絕對都不會去為難政府只要把事情講清楚就好所以行政院針對我是覺得跟民生最有關幾個其實我們都開始有走專案報告嘛比如說租屋補貼比如說今天的生活圈道路跟建設有關的我想行政院也不會隨便尊嚴啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].start |
14316.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].end |
14341.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].text |
這一部分補充做一下說明好 最後我們請葉院之委員葉院之委員 葉院之委員不在OK現在登記發言的委員除不在場者以外其餘均已發言完畢我們詢問到此結束高清素美委員丁學中委員所提書面質詢列入紀錄刊登公報書面質詢案未及答覆部分請相關單位於一週內以書面答覆並複製本會大家辛苦了本次會議到此結束現在散會 |