| IVOD_ID |
165657 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165657 |
| 日期 |
2025-11-20 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-4-19-11 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期經濟委員會第11次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
11 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
19 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
經濟委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期經濟委員會第11次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-11-20T09:32:57+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-11-20T09:47:30+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:14:33 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/972124280c86b91354525c1e035870a6558ea7a01fa7587926f9ed453590123b9ece5cc56f5d9c585ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
楊瓊瓔 |
| 委員發言時間 |
09:32:57 - 09:47:30 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-11-20T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期經濟委員會第11次全體委員會議（事由：邀請國家發展委員會主任委員、經濟部部長、數位發展部首長、國家科學及技術委員會首長、教育部首長及勞動部首長就「攸關臺灣未來的競爭力，值此ＡI時代，臺灣如何贏得新人才戰？」進行報告，並備質詢。
【11月19日及20日二天一次會】） |
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接下来我们请杨球英召委咨询谢谢主席 杨球英发言 邀请国发会国发会委员长 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
21.114 |
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48.874 |
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主委早我們政府全力的在推動AI指導但是算力的基礎設施背後的能源成本似乎被刻意的來淡化但是據我們媒體報導在5月30號的時候國家高速網路與計算中心的三部超級電腦一年電費要多少主委你注意到這個新聞嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
51.19 |
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71.307 |
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主委你在推動AI指導你是很重要的推手你怎麼連媒體在5月30號所報導的這個訊息你都不知道那你怎麼樣能夠去預估呢 |
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72.495 |
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91.433 |
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就部件呢本期告诉你据媒体的报道他是说这三部超级电脑一年的电费要破亿元再以台积电的用电来看2023年是230亿度那么预估在2030年的时候要330亿度 |
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92.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
112.93 |
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單一個企業幾乎要佔據了消耗了全國11%的電力隨著企業大規模的導入AI的訓練跟運算需求我們的國力 電力 綠電 水資源的缺口也正在擴大甚至出現綠電被大廠買光 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
119.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
135.728 |
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綁了買光的一個壟斷現象但是政府到現在你沒有提出算力能源的評估標準也沒有跨部會的去協調能源的預算所以導致 |
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137.422 |
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162.862 |
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這個面向也就是產業盡力努力去衝但是能源不夠用那AI的戰力可能會從國家的戰略變成是能源的黑洞所以本期首先要請教我們政府要全面的推動整個算力作為國家級的一個基礎建設那麼國防會你現在面對面對這樣子的超級電腦 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
166.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
179.861 |
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AI的訓練中心跟先進製程的一個極速拉高電力的需求的情況你認為整個的能源總量的控管你要做怎麼樣的 |
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182.437 |
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207.237 |
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預估 評估 佈建 請說說跟委員報告就是說其實經濟部在對於中長期的用電已經有把這個部分納入考量所以就是說預估來講的話未來十年納入考量你連我們國家最重要的國家高速網路與計算中心的三倍超過這個三部超級電腦一年要增加多少你知道要增加多少嗎 |
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210.1 |
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232.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
這個經濟部的資料裡面他有考慮他們預估每一年大概會增加1.7%的用電的成長但是告訴國發會主委既然你的主責要推動AI指導你要怎麼樣去提出明確的能源總量管控以及配套你們會不會提出啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
233.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
260.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
這個部分我們會跟經濟部跟國你什麼時候要提出我們會盡快盡快是什麼時候請告訴我們因為產業一直在前面衝但是他很害怕到底我的電力夠不夠算力超級電腦請做說明你們預估什麼時候會提出這個部分我必須要跟那個經濟部跟你說的很快是什麼時候你告訴我一個時間點嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
261.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
275.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
因為我要跟那個經濟部這邊所以你的頭腦所謂的很快是隨便答一答你沒有時間點嘛 是不是不會是什麼時間點我也沒有辦法給委員很明確因為我必須要跟那個經濟部這邊沒有辦法給本席嘛你也沒有明確的時間點嘛好 那我們請經濟部長來我們一起 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
287.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
302.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
我們前一段時間本席跟廖院長 中研院院長討論過電要從哪裡來而且我們看到2030年是2800億度 2050年是5000億度而且廖院長說還不止 大概是2050年大概6000億度 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
309.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
324.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
但是他認為這個數字是沒有加入剛剛本席跟國防會主委在討論的算力以及超級電腦的這個部分喔是沒有喔所以本席也請問了廖院長你知不知詞 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
325.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
352.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
合二合三重啟的這個立場他是支持的他明確的說支持而且他說台灣不只台灣的技術還有國際的技術我們是有能力的這是廖院長在教育委員會的時候回答本席的議題因為我們知道加入了算力加入了這個超級電腦我們的電力務必跟原先的一個規劃是不一樣的 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
353.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
370.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
它是增加的 它是增加的所以為了不讓我們的產業在前面衝怕能源這些電力是不夠的所以本席來請教請教那麼部長重啟核二核三您的立場呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
372.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
388.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
行政部門是依法行政您的立場呢合法已經修了嘛讓我們可以有這個依法對 而且送到你這邊啊送到行政院啊 合下來的沒有他說這個禮拜要合啊 上次你答覆本席的啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
389.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
395.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
對不對 你們台電送給你們你們要給這個行政院嘛你告訴本席 上個禮拜告訴本席說這個禮拜行政院要簽 準跟不準嘛簽了嗎 今天禮拜四勒簽了嗎 12月初啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
407.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
411.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
你說下個禮拜怎麼可能12月數到代對不對為什麼會這樣子呢在這邊都有錄音錄影我們希望好好的給你們力量去協助民眾發展我們的產業又來了一個盡快剛剛國發會主委告訴我 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
426.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
452.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
儘快我問了 最後他說他沒有辦法告訴我時間那現在你又來一個儘快那在你的立場因為廖院長已經正式的在教育委員會答覆本席那請問您的立場您是不支持朝這個方 依法行政當然所以我們也改了這個法律嘛那所以本席再一次的請教你您的立場 因為我們需求量很大 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
454.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
482.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
而且政府也說採開放式的態度去看待核電再重啟以及核電的新技術對不對對那你的立場支不支持核二核三在安全無力的範圍之內呢那麼重啟核二跟核三來增加電力對 巴委員您剛才講說安全無意所以我們現在就在12月初之前我們就看看那個如果安全無意可以大致上可以完成我們就會簽核然後就會開始啟動 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
483.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
500.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
好 所以方向是一致的也就是依法 那你們會行政院你要趕快去追啊因為他追了之後你還要後續要檢查我們還是要安全啊那如果在安全無慮的這個情況之下 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
500.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
516.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
您經濟部長的立場是同意合二合三來做這個重啟增加我們的定力三個原則就是合安合肺跟共識嘛那我們現在就是把合安真的趕快做好好那剛剛這個我們有共識那請教剛剛國防衛主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
520.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
535.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
您說要問經濟部那麼這個算力超級電腦我們增加這個你當政府就一定要超前來部署那什麼時候可以將你們預估的這個電量管控評估 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
537.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
554.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
請告訴社會大眾 給本席我們2032年之前也做了一些估算那當然 呃 國會他們剛剛本席已經告訴你那沒有加入沒有加入超級電腦也沒有加入算力啊國會主委在你身邊啊他說他要問你 你要讓他問啊我知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
555.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
582.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
你知道要什麼時候嗎我們都會滾動檢討你請告訴我們一個時間點因為產業很急一個月一個月內告訴本席你們的這個怎麼樣去計算怎麼樣去佈建一個月內告訴本席接下來本席要請教我們的速發部速發部跟經濟部請留下速發部謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
587.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
604.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
數法部AI人才的培育是國家數位轉型非常重要以及產業升級的關鍵命脈那政府當然責無旁貸必須要去帶頭推動但是我們現在AI的人才在國家級的檢定經濟部是IPAS |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
605.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
629.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
IPAS的部分剛剛部長也說了今年度你們一萬四千人一萬四千人去報名然後有六千五百人通過那初期的部分上個禮拜本席也跟部長在討論也就是你們將初期的部分初期來考試考為中高級所以你在初期的公布通過的認證是38% |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
631.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
647.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
那其實這個部分是希望能夠全面的去推動抒發布我們這個部分是不是台灣既然要成為AI人才島那我們更應該全面去推進嗎是不是 抒發布 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
648.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
663.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
是跟委員報告其實除了經濟部他們就是經濟部處理的這個iPath這個認證之外本席請問你我們既然認為是AI的人才培育是國家數位轉型跟產業發展的關鍵命脈 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
665.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
681.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
那我们是不是各部会因为你现在没有一个统筹单位嘛各部会散布在各部会你让他们去做嘛但是我们要看他的成效啊所以这个原则是不是应该全面全民去推动是不是是是完全是嘛所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
682.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
697.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
他們現在要繳4000到6000元的學費那考試的部分大概1300塊但是我們看到你的認證的部分大家認為教學的品質以及過時的教材這個部分是不是應該要去精進方案 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
707.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
726.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
跟委員報告 這個部分因為是經濟部這邊處理的不是經濟部處理 是施策會現在本席所說的是施策會你是抒發部啊 你怎麼會就推到經濟部呢我們單位主管敬請各位各盡本職既然你要散落在各部會你就應該要負責啊是是 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
728.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
749.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
是不是 所以針對你的這個教材針對教學品質 本席具體要求你書發布要好好的去精進好 精進方案給本席那部長 上次本席告訴你說你考試要公布答案呢你現在公布了嗎 什麼時候要公布 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
750.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
776.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
就是考完以後就會公布你沒有公布啊 你到現在還沒公布啊大家都在等啊一個禮拜 一個禮拜為什麼可以這樣亂答呢本席上次就跟你討論這個問題我們既然要全面的推動你也答覆本席說要公布到現在還在那邊牽扯還在那邊牽扯 還不公布跟你答的跟做的完全不一樣你怎麼樣取信於人民呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
778.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
804.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
AI的認證這麼樣的重要 為什麼要胡亂打連你在現場答覆說要公佈答案到現在還沒公佈 什麼時候要公佈一個禮拜以內現在開始的一個禮拜還是上個禮拜的一個禮拜現在現在開始 好 我們有錄音錄音我希望你盡快公佈齁 還有公版的教材因為你剛開始 部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
806.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
815.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
你剛開始 你要公本的教材你給社會大眾 大家一起來學習這才是我們要的嘛 是不是是不是書畫部部長 經濟部部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
818.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
841.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
為什麼各部會 既然政府現在還沒有辦法去統一那你應該各部會你必須將你的材料 你的教材你考試完公布答案你不公布答案我怎麼知道你給我通過跟不通過是真的還假的為什麼政府要做這樣 連這個都要詐騙不可以如此嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
842.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
864.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
經濟部長 您說一個禮拜內公布嘛因為你中期的快要公布了希望 本期希望你公布答案啊這本來就應該公布的嘛讓大家有所學習嘛 對不對教材的部分我請一定要去精進讓大家全民推動我們才是一個真正的AI之島嘛請照剛剛所說的時間點據此作出 謝謝 |