| IVOD_ID |
165654 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165654 |
| 日期 |
2025-11-20 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-4-19-11 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期經濟委員會第11次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
11 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
19 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
經濟委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期經濟委員會第11次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-11-20T09:21:54+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-11-20T09:32:46+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:10:52 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/972124280c86b913984c20406738029a558ea7a01fa7587926f9ed453590123b0ee1a9492a26f8aa5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
邱議瑩 |
| 委員發言時間 |
09:21:54 - 09:32:46 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-11-20T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期經濟委員會第11次全體委員會議（事由：邀請國家發展委員會主任委員、經濟部部長、數位發展部首長、國家科學及技術委員會首長、教育部首長及勞動部首長就「攸關臺灣未來的競爭力，值此ＡI時代，臺灣如何贏得新人才戰？」進行報告，並備質詢。
【11月19日及20日二天一次會】） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
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請做詢答好 謝謝主席我是不是請一下經濟部跟國科會好 請兩位就很好 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
28.974 |
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50.138 |
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部長好這個國科會今天是副主委嗎部長這個我們今天主席排定的議程是要討論AI時代到底台灣如何贏得人才戰但我今天要跟您討論在討論人才戰之前不能動 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
56.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
69.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
在討論人才戰之前部長我想要讓您看一下紅色資本已經入侵台灣直接掐住了台灣半導體的物流命脈 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
71.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
94.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
部長這個我不曉得您跟國科會有沒有掌握這件事情在我們的南科跟竹科這兩個園區裡頭唯一的物流業者叫做科學城物流科學城物流現在的經營權掌握在誰的手裡掌握在家裡大榮物流這家公司 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
94.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
114.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
那這一家公司呢現在被發現這一家公司的董事長其實具有中國的政協背景我們很擔心所有園區內的高科技業的機密資料是不是會全都漏 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
115.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
136.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
部長讓你看一下科學城物流公司的這個經營權的轉移時間軸從2011年馬政府的時代我們核准台灣家裡投資去持有家裡大榮過半的股權一直到18年新竹物流去取得科學城物流55%的股權 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
140.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
167.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
2019年新竹物流把科學成物流的股權賣給了嘉里大榮2021年順豐控股收購了香港嘉里物流過半的股權到2023年郭氏集團也就是嘉里控股的董事長郭孔華跟郭惠光分別擔任北京跟上海的政協委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
168.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
182.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
這一張關係圖可以很清楚的讓部長跟國科會去了解我剛剛所談到的順豐控股跟家裡控股公司之間到底他們的關係鏈結是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
186.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
201.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
順豐控股是中國最大的物流集團它具有中國官方的背景跟中國政府的投資而順豐控股在2021年收購了香港家裡物流過半的股權之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
201.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
228.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
形成了一個非常清楚的控制鏈就是順豐控股然後接下來是嘉里控股接下來是KLN然後是嘉里大榮的台灣然後是科學城物流而科學城物流就是我們南科跟竹科唯一的倉儲科學城物流嘉里大榮現在持股佔有科學城物流60%以上的股份 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
230.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
258.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
為什麼說紅色集團入侵部長我讓您看一下郭孔華是家裡控股的董事長2023年開始他擔任北京的政協委員郭惠光也是郭孔華的姊姊2023年擔任上海市的政協委員我今天要提起要問請教兩位到底這個郭氏家族的政協角色 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
260.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
282.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
在我們政府的認定 它是否已經就是實質的中資當時我們認為港澳投資台灣是基於一國兩制高度自治的這樣的一個前提之下現在的時空背景已經轉換了2019年開始香港已經完全失去了自治中國全面掌控政治 人事 法律體制 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
283.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
312.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
也就是說現在的港資是否還是當初我們認定的那個時代的港資如果現在的港資已經不是當時認定的港資那現在的港資是否就等於中資如果是等於中資的話我們的經濟部我們的投審會甚至我們的國科會在對於科學園區的物流倉儲被紅色產業鏈全盤掌控的時候到底政府能做什麼你們會做什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
312.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
333.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
你們有沒有發現這個問題來 部長報告委員因為我們跟中國的關係是兩岸關係條例那跟港澳是港澳條例它是兩個條例不一樣那這是不是港資就視為中資我想這個還要跟陸委會做討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
335.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
364.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
那至於您剛才提到的家裡大王這件事情事實上我們都有一直在關注那您剛才那個圖表面上看起來他好像是用家裡控股他去控台灣跟台灣跟香港是不一樣的但是是不是有實質控制權這個部分我們現在正在實質的調查這個部長我覺得你這個回答太過軟弱了他當然是有實質的控制權順豐控股都已經直接入主家裡家裡控股公司他掌握他的股權 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
367.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
385.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
如果是你這樣子的邏輯的話那你們過去投審會在處理港資跟中資的問題就不會是這個邏輯囉它不是投資家裡控股它是投資香港家裡表面上它是投資香港家裡它不是投資那個控股 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
386.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
412.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
家裡控股 一樣嘛 這個目前上來講的話是有一點不一樣 那我問你嘛 園區如果遇到這個狀況的話這算不算國安層級要去處理的 所以我們現在就是說這個還沒有釐清之前包括你們什麼時候可以釐清包括科協園區的物流或是藥品的送這個買賣物流的話我們就不讓他乘坐了 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
414.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
416.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
你什麼時候可以釐清 來 國客會 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
417.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
446.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
跟我們報告原區的廠商對於相關資訊的外流或者是營業秘密的保護有非常嚴謹的做法那對於物流公司在科學園區的廠商物流公司是一個自由市場那剛剛講的科學層物流是在園區裡面有租地所以對於他的資安的查核我們定期科學園區管理局會針對他的資安是否有外洩的進行查核所以這個部分園區會盡適當的能力來把它做好這一番有關營業秘密保護的事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
446.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
473.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
你們講的是後面的查核嘛很多的資訊流通是直接雲端上傳就回到中國嘛他能不能掌握台灣的產能波動能不能掌握台灣的產線壓力跟出貨的節奏能不能掌握園區裡面什麼時間什麼物料往哪邊送給誰送給哪一家廠商如果他能夠掌握這些東西的話那他其實就是掌握台灣半導體的實際駕動率啊他其實就是掌握台灣的這個國防供應鏈的實際的動力啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
476.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
488.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
那你告訴我你後面才去做查核他第一時間雲端就送回去啦你們有沒有去注意到這個問題很顯然的沒有嘛我覺得你還是消極的在做這件事情嘛國科會你有沒有做過風險評估有沒有你是後面做查核那你在前端這一個你現在如果發現這個問題你們應該早就發現這個問題了啦有沒有做過國安的風險評估那你的風險評估報告內容是什麼你覺得他沒有具他不具備國安的風險所以還是可以繼續讓這一家公司 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
506.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
530.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
持續地做那如果是這樣子衛福部他們為什麼要立刻停掉衛福部因為涉及到醫材的部分這個由衛福部來處理醫材很重要 對半導體的我們這些材料的物流難道不重要但是因為它的半導體是台灣的護國神山這些不重要是是這個部分因為整個半導體產業的能夠乘坐物流的公司有非常多 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
531.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
549.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
那所以這一家公司其實所佔有的比例它是不是能夠掌控到所有的資訊其實沒有辦法的整體的包含優比數包含所有的物流公司都可以乘坐園區的廠商主委 副主委你們國科會在掌握AIAI什麼東西都可以做得到是 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
550.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
574.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
物流業者每天在科學園區裡面這樣跑你覺得他掌握不到嗎你覺得他掌握不到嗎他如果把所有的公司串接起來你覺得他掌握不到嗎那你們我覺得政府的這個國安的警訊這個安全的警訊系統似乎失靈欸我是不是能夠請國科會請經濟部包括你們的投審會認真研究一下這件事情一個禮拜內 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
581.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
590.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
一個禮拜內可不可以有一個評估報告出來跟委員報告其實我們一直都有在關注這件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
592.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
619.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
好如果你們有在關注的話可不可以給本席一個你們現在關注的這些進度報告這些安全報告如果是只有說你有在關注就沒有回答到委員的議題所以他希望你們一個禮拜將你們演繹的方向再跟委員順便說好嗎你現在有在關注你關注的內容是什麼你覺得你現在的對於國安層級的研判是什麼安全性的評估是什麼包括未來的投審會 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
621.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
639.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
對於港資是否等於中資對於他的整個投資 台灣的內容報告安全程度的危害是不是都能夠做一併的報告出來 可以嗎 部長我們現在手上有的內容 因為一個禮拜我們會整理給委員做 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
642.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
651.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
OK 好 謝謝好 那就承諾委員所說的一個禮拜將他所提問的議題跟委員來說明清楚謝謝來 接下來整理一下委員 謝謝 |