| IVOD_ID |
16565 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16565 |
| 日期 |
2025-04-07 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
聯席會議-11-3-23,36-1 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期交通、司法及法制委員會第1次聯席會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
1 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
聯席會議 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
23 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[1] |
36 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
交通委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[1] |
司法及法制委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期交通、司法及法制委員會第1次聯席會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2025-04-07T08:30:16+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-04-07T13:06:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
04:35:44 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/f826c2e4afc302dd391d75eca066790e445fc32f41448fc06e2c503bbdfdf4b663db1c9b304c5da75ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-04-07T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期交通、司法及法制委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：審查一、委員蔡其昌等17人、二、委員林宜瑾等27人、三、委員楊瓊瓔等21人及四、委員徐富癸等17人分別擬具「國營臺灣鐵路股份有限公司設置條例第十條及第二十三條條文修正草案」案。
【以上各案詢答完畢後，進行處理】） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:30:16 - 13:06:00 |
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現在開始開會 初期委員已足法定人數現在介紹我們在場的委員 洪孟楷委員 鍾瑞雄委員王一聰委員列席官員 |
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2161.718 |
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2184.113 |
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列席官員有我們交通部我們的伍聖元次長我們的公共運輸及監理司律福山市長還有我們的陸鎮及道安司我們的衛瑜代理副市長 |
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2187.133 |
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2193.258 |
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法治處許宏達處長會計處張信一處長秘書處黃定環處長鐵道局楊振軍局長台鐵公司馮輝升總經理文化部 |
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2217.489 |
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2237.793 |
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文資局季嘉琳專門委員內政部國土署都紀組廖建順副組長財政部國產署公共公用財產組陳志華組長國庫署債務管理組黃勤文組長 |
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2251.451 |
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2269.975 |
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主計總署基金預算處代群方專門委員法務部廖江縣參事本日會議進行國營台灣鐵路 |
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2274.178 |
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2299.619 |
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股份有限公司設置條例第10條及第23條條文修正的審查先請委員說明提案要旨請機關代表報告交通部我們的吳次長謝謝 |
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2312.505 |
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2330.946 |
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主席各位委員各位女士先生大家好今天應邀列席貴人會審查國營台灣鐵路股份有限公司設置條例第10條以及第23條的條文修正草案的會議敬請各位委員指教那有關這次本次的 |
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2332.607 |
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2347.404 |
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國營台灣鐵路股份優先公司設置條例的修正主要是為了台鐵局原來的台鐵局剝入資產以及債務管理基金的一個資產希望能夠採多元活化的運用方式來積極提高資產開發的效益 |
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2349.727 |
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2368.921 |
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同時來兼顧文化資產的一個保存循序創造現金流的一個收入來清償原台鐵級寄存的短期的債務實現行政院因為歷史包袱所造成的債務由政府孤單的承諾事項來協助台鐵公司健全財務以及永續的經營 |
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2370.697 |
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2393.691 |
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另外本次的會議就蔡委員齊昌等17人林委員怡瑾等27人楊委員全英等21人及徐委員富奎等17人相關委員拟據了國營台灣鐵路股份有限公司的設置條例第10條第23條條文修正台灣共識案的修正提案的一個建議那本部已經拟據建議了具體相關建議處理意見 |
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2396.713 |
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2401.879 |
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那接下來我就請鐵道局楊局長向各位委員詳細說明進行各位來指教謝謝 |
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2413.379 |
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2435.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
主席 各位委員 各位女士 各位先生今天應邀列席貴委員會就蔡委員齊昌 林委員怡瑾 楊委員瓊英及徐委員富奎等四位委員跟相關委員所提案的台鐵公司設置條例第10條第23條修正條文草案提出交通部的處理建議供貴委員會在處理時候的相關參採 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
2436.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
2463.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
那有關本次委員所提案的修正重點以下分就三點來做說明第一點是希望使本基金的資產管理資產得以開發處分以及收益就設置條例第十條第二項增設明定該等接管的資產不受國有財產法第28條之限制且處分開發收益及其他相關事項之辦法授權由交通部定制 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
2464.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2491.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
第二個修正重點是使資金的經營管理資產得依文化資產保存法規定辦理容積移轉基金管有的土地部份都已經劃設為所謂的古蹟或歷史建物包括台北機場、一萬一吐的低密度開發區以及高雄港、臨港縣等相關資產原來由台鐵公司繼續持有本來就得依文化資產保存法第41條規定辦理容積移轉 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
2494.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2515.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
但是因為配合政策將該等資產轉移至基金之後呢由交通部鐵道局擔任管理機關極受文化資產保存法第41條第一項不適用該等土地管理機關為政府機關之限制考量該等土地上需透過活化產生收益以償還台鐵局原 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2516.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2540.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
寄存之短期債務 原允許管理機關得依文資法相關規定辦理容積移轉建議新增第10條第三項第三個修正重點是有關本條例修正條文的公佈施行日相關處理建議如下第一個有關蔡委員其他等17人的相關條文其中修正第10條與政策方向一致 本部原則支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2541.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2568.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
但是該條文的第一項後段增設該基金存續期間以30年為限以交通部鐵道局為管理機關一解考量基金存續期間存有不確定性且基金管理機關已明定於交通作業基金收支管理及運用辦法建議不需要增訂第二個修正條文第23條委員提案增加第二項本條例至中華民國某年某月某日修正之第10條 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2569.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2579.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
公佈日施行以建議採原則性方式來做修訂的條文及本條例修正條文自公佈日施事以作為後續相關修正條文之一體適用 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2581.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2609.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
第二個有關李穎委員醫警等27人擬聚的相關草案修正條例第10條跟前述的方向一致我們也是表示支持至於其中有一個分號的部分我們建議來增加以利區分第二項前段跟後段相關之間的文字明確第二個是有關修正條文的實行日期本部原則支持並尊重貴委員會審議結果第三案有關楊委員 裘英等21人修正草案 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2610.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2630.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
第一點修正條文第四條跟政策方向一致第十條第三項默劇增訂不受管理機關為政府機關之限制一解尚不影響文藝且更真明確將尊重委員會審議結果修正條文第23條明確修訂條文施行日期本部原則之此 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2631.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2654.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
第四案徐委員富奎等17人擬聚的修正條草案跟前述楊委員求營修正草案一致本部原則表示之此結語本案修正草案對台鐵常債基金之常債能力及政府負擔相關利息關係甚具感謝各位委員提案的相關草案請提供本部處理建議如上上請各位委員參採以上報告謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2665.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2681.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
謝謝那今天是司法跟我們聯席所以人數比較多所以我們尋答時間就縮短一些那尋答時間出席委員5加1分鐘列席委員4分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2684.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2700.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
委員發言登記於10點半截止各委員如果臨時提案請於10點前提出以便議事人員會診暫定10點半休息10分鐘中午原則上不休息現在請登記第一位委員侯孟楷委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2714.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2715.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
好 主席謝謝 麻煩請吳次長請次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2726.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2747.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
市長台鐵最重要除了安全還是安全那我們不希望說有發生任何的一個事故但這一次清明年假其實台鐵也發生兩起媒體有報導的意外事故其中有一個是在台中太原站有普悠瑪號因為有落軌的意外有沒有查清 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2749.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2775.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
述實真相為何是 我跟委員報告這一個案件是發生在剛剛講就清明這個年假裡面是那天我們把那個錄影帶調出來可以看得出來它是輕生的也就是說它在那個月台等著那個累積快進站的時候快到的時候它突然往月台裡面跳它並不是一個意外的跌落好 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2776.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2797.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
所以這是親身的一個事故但不管怎麼樣在現在的過程裡面其實很多人更想要了解的是台鐵的公司化一年多的時間了那有沒有把我們相關的不管是準點不管是我們最基本的安全有沒有到位 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2799.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2806.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
市長 了不了解我們公司化之後我們的一個統計的狀況準點率所以我跟委員報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2809.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2835.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
過去去年大概從2013年成立嘛它的準點力過去跟過去來比事故事件是確實是比過去稍微多一點公司化之後反而過去還要多對 但是主要大概有兩個有一個原因比較大原因就是剛講天海災害去年的那個地震比較多一路清的部分比較多就像剛剛講的那過去我們也發生過有那個車子它會開到我們的那個從頻道裡面開到我們軌道裡面去 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2837.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2863.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
那個你開到裡面去我們不曉得他為什麼開到裡面去一耽擱就耽擱了一千多分那像這個如果把這個排除以後啊我們的準點率其實還可以到97.5來 市長媒體有幫你做統計跟報導準點率公司化之後下降了再來近十年異常的行車意外跟件數上升了 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2865.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2881.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
2024年這都是客觀的數據你剛剛特別提到去年4月有大地震所以4月之後有可能因為天災的狀況而造成我們這個準點率比較低好那我們來看一下前三個月也沒有達標啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2883.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2906.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
四月之前四月發生地震所以你說四月五月六月給你三個月的時間讓你比較寬鬆沒錯嘛你看到四月的時候他突然降到81%就代表是說確實有受到天災的影響我不否認但是一月二月三月的時候你也比之前還要來的低啊所以不要推給天災 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2908.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2919.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
天災沒有辦法控制但重點在於是說我們當初要求或說期待的是台鐵要公司化之後能夠準點能夠安全能夠到位 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2920.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2938.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
到目前為止有做到嗎來 市長本席一直關心 因為一直都在交通委員會我們0402的太魯閣號的事故確實大家都非常的難過也是讓台鐵真的公司化的一個很重要的關鍵我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2940.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2960.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
4月2號我也出席了我是唯一一位立法委員出席我們當天晚上的紀念音樂會但是本席當天其實也有感覺到為什麼大家也都在討論我們花了八千多萬去做所謂的燈光的吊唸紀念 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2962.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2989.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
台鐵這兩天被大家全都砲轟講說安全沒有到位準點沒有到位人員的改善沒有到位工作環境沒有到位我們還多花八千多萬金額高低一回事可是台鐵現在給我們的解釋居然講說是家屬的建議又要推給家屬啊家屬情何以堪啊台鐵做的決定然後現在講說是家屬的建議那大家是要再針對家屬嗎市長 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2992.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
3015.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
能不能說句公道的話 到底我們現在花了這八千多萬有沒有把錢花在刀口上我跟委員報告 確實這個案子外面的外界對這部分都有一些意見但我跟委員報告 這個原來的案子我們最早是希望在當地就事故地點立碑的方式 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
3016.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
3038.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
那當然那時候跟家屬在討論的時候他們認為這個太過於傳統他們希望一個不一樣的所以後來才變成協調是由所謂的在隧道裡面設置燈光的方式那因為它比較偏遠所以它的相關的一些單價還有必須在就是停班以後才可以施作所以相對的一些這個費用會比較高一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
3038.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
3067.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
我想這是讓我們台鐵一定記得這樣的一個事情就是四年前的零四零二的問題當成我們的一個最大的教訓我想在安全的方面台鐵的改革是永無止境的當然台鐵改革是永無止境的但重點是用了大家都記得我還記得那個時候就是在清明連假結束之後的交通委員會9點28分到的時候大家都在討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
3070.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
3097.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
我們也希望能夠台鐵永遠記得這樣的一個事故不是說用經費用這個燈光重點是改革嘛安全嘛是好所以來市長想請教一下怎麼會突然間讓大家也覺得很訝異董事長就請辭了那我們備位的董事長您這邊是站帶嘛是無預警的提出請辭這也讓大家覺得說很訝異啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
3099.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
3117.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
有沒有去了解 來是不是說明一下你的代理會代理多久代理還不曉得目前在尋找適合的管理人所以董事長的請辭沒有給我們交通部有任何找紀委人選的時間他就是要離開 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
3120.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
3143.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
他是生涯規劃啦我瞭解是這樣子我看到啦你們新聞稿寫生涯規劃嘛是但重點在於是說台鐵公司這麼重要重要重要是啊那怎麼會我相信以董事長之前也是一輩子的台鐵人了是那連多一點時間給我們交通部去找說專業的董事長來接任也不願意 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
3145.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
3172.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
中間溝通出了什麼問題我所理解的應該不是這樣子啦我想這個過去他有提出來那當然我們有一直在慰留他嘛那因為他後面的行程已經排定了所以我們大概只能尊重他所以你預計代理多久也不知道應該很快什麼時候能夠提出來人選你是次長你總該可以了解吧沒辦法跟委員報告你這算是救火是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
3173.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
3195.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
這是目前因為現在還沒有一個適合人選那先由我來暫時代理是嗎所以你講到重點嘛在於是說台鐵的公司那麼重要合適的人選還沒有找到然後就任董事長就離開然後讓你要來代理那我們行政部門或說我們民進黨政府到底哪台鐵公司當然是什麼我想這個部分最後來 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
3197.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
3224.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
我看到我們台鐵公司剛滿一年但是向交通部要提出希望能夠爭取公司考積列甲等但目前掛牌首年虧損了137億點多事故又更多大多數又是人人為的事故所以市長是台鐵爭取考積列甲等交通部會同意嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
3226.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
3252.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
這個交通部沒有既定的立場因為這個考程它有相關的規定這個列出來是前董事長的指示還是你的指示這是他們把過去之前嘛對 之前的時候就已經依照各個指標然後把資料送上來那由交通部先做一個初審那你現在接代理董事長你滿意現在台鐵的指標嗎看到剛剛的事故有改善的空間 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
3254.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
3277.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
有改善的空間有努力的空間換言之其實到目前為止國人在一年了公司化還是沒有感受到台鐵有脫胎換骨改善的決心更不要講是我們今天還在討論你要活化資產不是不能活化公司化本來就是有更彈性的空間但重點 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
3279.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
3304.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
請真的不要忘記因為後面還有其他委員要質詢本席只想強調請不要忘記不管是公司的話不管是台鐵大家對你的期待其實重點在於是安全安全還是安全沒有做到安全什麼都是白談是不要本末倒置不要讓國人覺得台鐵記取事故教訓只是射燈射燈光 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
3305.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
3313.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
只是每年行李如宜而沒有真真正正把台鐵的改革放在心上是謝謝是 謝謝委員好 謝謝我們現在請黃國昌委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
3335.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
3356.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
謝謝主席,麻煩有請交通部政務次長,也是台鐵的代理董事長請次長委員好次長好,台鐵有很多事情其實讓納稅人看不太懂我一樣一樣來跟您請教,第一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
3358.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
3384.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
志強號EMU3000型的列車當初說是台灣最美的列車結果跑我們的東部幹線座椅不符合人體工學民眾坐得腰痠背痛充電器難用這些事情之前交通部的部長陳士凱在這個委員會接受質詢的時候也說了說他自己做 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
3385.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
3393.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
都覺得有這樣子的問題這必須要改善現在目前這件事情改善的進度如何 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
3394.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
3420.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
我想跟委員報告我想為了這個座椅的關係我們大概也不好意思你就直接講現在改善的進度如何我們現在已經找出最優方案已經找出來了那現在要進行所謂的所以還沒有開始進行對不對還沒有開始沒有關係第一個那你們現在改善的所改善的方案要花多少錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
3423.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
3434.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
改善方案要花多少錢大概1.7億左右來看一下一列改裝的費用是369萬有50列乘起來是1億8450萬這個數字沒有錯嗎沒有錯我現在問題來了你們當初跟大家號稱 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
3445.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
3471.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
還有什麼人體工學小組一堆專家參與結果搞了半天新的椅子做了難做還要花一億八千四百五十萬這個錢誰要出這不是舊的車子喔這是新的車子喔新的車子以後發現椅子很難坐處理的方式是在花一億八千四百五十萬來改這個錢誰要出 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
3475.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
3503.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
沒有人要負責嗎還是沒有關係這納稅人的錢盡量花隨便花亂花反正又不是決策的人要出這件事情交通部有檢討嗎台鐵有檢討嗎還是一億八千四百五十萬在台鐵的眼中這小錢啦藍三的啦沒有關係啊是這樣嗎說明一下這件事情誰要負責 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
3504.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
3514.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
我再強調一次喔這是新車喔這不是舊車喔這不是舊車老舊要去換設備是從新的車開始座椅就有問題連交通部部長都承認有問題結果再花一億八我們的政府很有錢還是台鐵很有錢來說明一下誰要負責 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
3530.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3547.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
我想跟委員報告因為這個當時他的座椅的材質是所謂的防火的耐燃的部分所以他比較硬一點那確實大概做起來大概補片的就覺得反應說比較硬這個我剛剛都講過了現在我要問你的問題是誰要負責沒有人要負責嗎沒有關係花納稅人的錢啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3559.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3588.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
現在大家看不懂啊我們的政府到底在做什麼決策粗糙品質爛新的車的座椅沒辦法坐沒有關係再花118來改還不是只有這件事喔再往下看普悠瑪完了以後又搞一個列控4.0找了一個詐騙廠商啊叫李立 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3590.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3618.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
怎麼勾上線的我有一定程度的了解李立啊現在是把我們啊國際桃園國際機場T3航廈的自駕車的系統搞得亂七八糟啊搞到要解約啊現在這廠商啊躲到哪裡去了不知道但是這個詐騙廠商啊政商關係良好啊關係非常的好之前搞一個列控4.0 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3619.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3648.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
花六千萬結果我又問應安會說系統根本不能用來你們這個列控4.0還要再搞第二期嗎公務員報告齁這部分我們現在還在評估啦還要評估多久還要評估多久我們會在我們董事會的那個安全我老實跟你們講啦當初錯了就勇敢承認錯誤啦不要以拖待變啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3649.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3674.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
所以要評估18個月這種爛東西需要評估18個月喔笑死人了啊你們反正就是用時間來拖延嘛之前花6000萬你丟一顆石頭到水裡還會動一聲啊你花了6000萬搞這個列控4.0是有什麼用什麼用都沒有啦我跟你保證你18個月買以後絕對不會繼續做啦為什麼不會繼續做 這東西太爛了嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3678.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3701.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
當初六千萬拿給這個廠商胡搞瞎搞有什麼具體的成果什麼具體的成果都沒有啊政府很有錢啊納稅的錢國家的錢這樣亂花都沒有關係啊改椅子1.8億列控4.0再丟六千萬錢多得不得了啊再往下看台鐵遮斷器 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3710.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3736.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
1424號耗費近4.8億什麼時候裝得完本來預期什麼時候要裝完現在什麼時候裝得完跟我們報告現在這個我們評估因為涉及到電源的關係現在有關老舊所以變成電源的部分要先一併來做更新那現在我們評估大概會在明年的7月可以完成明年的7月吧是遲延多久了大概延了一年多 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3737.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3758.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
一樣啊爛的不得了啊從花蓮裝到彰化遮斷器放不下來之前我已經質詢過這件事啊來看一下現在進度啊本來要裝1424號本來去年8月的時候就要做完了現在裝了396套加上42套工料我的資訊有沒有錯 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3760.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3776.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
沒有錯沒有錯嘛什麼時候做得完 你說明年七月 上一次我問喔你們給我的資料是今年年底要做完但我看這個進度根本做不完嘛絕對做不完嘛現在要延到明年七月喔誰要負責任 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3777.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3794.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
第二個我上次來這邊問前董事長杜威跟我講說這個遮斷器之前出現了很大的問題因為那是鐵路停交道這牽涉到人命的安全我上次質詢的時候我說這家公司安全嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3796.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3823.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
裝到髒話都不想要裝啊說不要來裝了啊會出事啊上次杜威跟我講說這個問題有收斂真的有收斂嗎到目前為止有收斂嗎我跟委員報告確實這些原因有在收斂中一個比較過去兩個月有沒有發生事故因為他遮斷器的問題有沒有發生事故有沒有造成人受傷 有還是沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3826.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3847.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
有沒有台東的部分有一個對嘛這是你們上次跟我講的說現在安全沒有疑慮我上次質詢的時候台鐵回函給我安全沒有疑慮結果呢結果你們內部的人看不下去說那個董事長胡說八道說謊你們新聞蓋得很好這個是內部的人傳來給我的 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3854.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3868.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
又造成事故了啊又有人受傷了啊結果上次我站在這邊質詢啊你們台鐵董事長還跟我講說安全沒有疑慮現在呢今天還是拍胸脯保證安全沒有疑慮嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3871.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3884.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
我跟委員報告剛提到的這幾個原因確實是前面幾個因素已經弄得已經收斂差不多現在就剩下電源的部分那電源部分因為舊的電源比較不穩定我們現在要講電源就來講電源 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3886.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3915.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
上次我就講了發刀的時候沒有做好就開始東拉西扯說電源有問題然後你們之前還編了1.9億啊你事情沒做好國家還要再編預算花1.9億讓你去花1.9億讓你去改善電源來我們看一下這個是你們本來追加1.87億嘛這是你們台鐵本來台鐵電廉智慧化提升計畫裡面的內容啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3917.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3939.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
是吧我公開諮詢完了以後說這個不能給同一家特定廠商做這也出事了說現在要公開招標說3月要發包絕標了嗎還沒有這樣還沒有絕標網路的絕標什麼時候要發包還要再拖多久1年的4月就會發包 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3945.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3965.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
我再講一次你們112年回函的內容是什麼?遮斷感沒有電流不足的問題結果現在廠商東西搞不好廠商東西搞不好我們政府解決的方法很簡單納稅人的錢拿來花我再編預算再讓你改善電流 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3966.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3995.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
現在我有個最根本的問題這個廠商當初在投標的時候他不知道既有客觀環境是什麼你們當初還跟這個廠商講不要去牽拖電流的事情結果現在最後政府讓步了政府讓步解決的方法是什麼納稅人的錢編啊用納稅人的錢去幫這個廠商啊之前給你4億多搞不定不僅遲延安全還有問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3997.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
4002.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
現在解決的方法非常簡單我在編預算再給你錢搞我為什麼說納稅人看不懂我們政府很有錢啦預算這樣亂編亂花都沒有關係啊從頭到尾沒有人要負責嘛我有說錯嗎錢這樣花整個交通部看也沒有關係台鐵也沒有人要負責 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
4043.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
4070.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
謝謝台鐵改改善的還很多那個市長可能要先跟總經理現在整體要再思考一下有很多問題我之前問過了有很多問題沒有解決好我們現在請陳培鈺委員好謝謝主席那有請市長謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
4073.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
4073.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
陳社長 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
4081.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
4110.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
委員好好 市長辛苦了台鐵真的有很多問題需要改善喔這兩天的新聞我相信你一定都非常清楚不管是這個月台門的問題或者是這個安全的問題還有這個人翻覆過翻爬過去的問題我很好奇喔台鐵在相關事情上的規劃進度因為我知道台鐵一直有在做這個相關的規劃目前為止就您所掌握的進度不管是規劃事辦安裝纜繩月台門或者是安全門跟日本接近的這個部分我想要知道你們目前的進度 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
4111.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
4137.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
我跟委員報告這個月台門部分我們做一個試辦的一個工程是在高雄車站那這部分目前的展示的部分已經放上去了那後面的功能目前在設計我們預計在年底可以完成整個一個測試那在明年的三月可以把這個完工完工之後我們再來評估是不是在其他的月台的其他車站的部分來進行這個月台門的一個規劃好 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
4139.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
4168.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
我很好奇這個關於評估的標的到底是什麼因為你說年底完工然後就開始試做試辦然後看看這個績效如何狀況如何但我很好奇台鐵內部或者是一般人因為只要每次台鐵上了新聞相關的那個鐵路鐵道迷的朋友們的留言都是幾乎是網路上最熱烈但我很好奇台鐵內部自己專家的意見或者是專家學者的意見或是你們那個評估的標的到底是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
4169.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
4190.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
我跟委員我跟委員報告因為台鐵的車種非常多那這個為什麼是事半就是剛剛講的我們把它弄完之後我們去針對每一個車型然後去做一些討論有些的功能是不是應該增加有些功能是不是應該減少我想就是在這個時候我們來做所以才會到年底的時候才把這個事半的部分完成 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
4190.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
4211.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
其實市長你講到關鍵就是因為車型的樣態非常多然後每一個月台的狀況也不一樣還有呢就是如果這些狀況搭配組合起來那個排列組合的樣態會非常非常多那如果其實在這些為什麼一直有嗶嗶聲那個手機轉接一點好不好不要吵到大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
4219.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
4227.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
好主席我的時間好沒關係好其實日本在這件事情上我相信台鐵應該有接近日本的經驗那日本的經驗他們 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
4229.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
4256.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
的狀態可能跟次長您也講的差不多就是呢月台的樣態非常多元然後車種的樣態也非常多元所以排列組合起來他們所必須做的事情其實也非常非常的困難那日本的經驗他們其實已經告訴我們了相關成本非常昂貴保養的維運也很花時間又很花錢而且在現在各行各業普遍缺工的情況下這件事情做起來更加困難還有月台門也可能因為故障失效反而變成另外一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
4256.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
4266.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
另外一個危安的因素所以我也很好奇台鐵在這件事情上後續到底長期的規劃是什麼或者是說我們只能短期短期來看我們沒有辦法往長期去想 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
4267.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
4286.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
我想還是剛剛所講的因為它是個師辦那這裡面我們一開始其實研討加了很多功能那過一陣子我們剛剛講了開始做了以後我們去討論這些功能是完全不要那我們這邊是希望是自主開發居多還是以日本的系統搬過來用然後做一些改良為主 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
4287.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
4314.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
我們不見得說一定是參考以哪一個國家的金額為主我想是依照我們目前我們台鐵公司的樣態來做比較實在好如果是這樣那代表我們會有自主開發成分是高的那如果自主開發成分是高的我要拜託次長不管後續您或後續的董事長是誰我認為在中間實測的過程當中我們在自主開發所會遇到的困難不管是經驗上的困難或者是人力上的困難專業上的困難 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
4316.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
4330.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
這件事情我們到底如何解決還是我們每次都只選一些固定的站點做一些示範然後好像就可以對安全這件事情有所交代我認為人民還是有疑慮的所以要拜託次長要把這個問題帶回去繼續作為一個非常重要的施政參考 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
4331.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
4360.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
那我知道台鐵在2019年曾經有做過智慧影像辨識的事情當時我們討論到因為有隱私的問題還有相關系統可能有中國製的產品的問題所以就喊停那我要提醒次長2019的AI到了2025的AI樣他已經不一樣了那台灣有沒有能力自己做這件事情有沒有相關的評估你覺得我們有沒有機會往這一段去評估用AI重新啟動作為輔助防止越台旱事的可能性 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
4361.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
4368.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
這確實在2019的時候曾經有想要試辦那剛剛就提到了因為有隱私權大概那時候外界對這有點意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
4370.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
4391.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
那現在剛講AI應用很普遍我想除了我們編播之外我想這部分我們可以來研討看看好 那我希望你們帶回去研討這件事情因為我相信台灣是應該有能力自己做這件事情如果按照您說的剛剛纜繩月台也好 安全門也好台鐵有更多自主研發的空間我認為一併把AI系統納入應該是可行的好嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
4392.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
4404.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
好這題我們之後也會往下追喔在接下來小年夜北中南電纜遭到接連破壞當時王定宇委員提醒說可能會有國安的疑慮我想問一下目前這個案子追查的進度是如何 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
4405.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
4423.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
跟委員報告,這個案子已經破案了,應該只是附近的相關人士為了貪圖,他要去賣那個銅線的這樣的物料,獲取一點金錢那這個已經破案了,我想這後面,我們後面會好好再去處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
4424.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
4439.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
所謂好好處理值的事就是剛剛講的我們會跟我們的路警局可以這個橫向溝通更清楚因為其實他們對周遭的哪些的人員可能會去做過切道這樣的一個動作應該都有掌握 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
4439.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
4457.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
好 所以次長你已經說出兩個字你認為這是單純的竊盜事件對 目前看的案子是這樣目前看是這樣好 沒有問題我們可以接受這個說法但是我們也是要參考我認為相關事件真的很有可能在台灣發生在巴黎奧運的開幕當天法國鐵路網就遭到惡意的攻擊 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
4458.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
4475.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
那我認為在目前的情況下台灣不是沒有機會遇到相關國安的問題在台鐵的整個系統當中你自己有沒有想過這件事情在台鐵目前系整個運作系統當中的因應能力到哪裡或者是整個因應系統的準備我們現在做到哪裡了 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
4476.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
4502.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
是,這個我想這個我去台鐵以後,我有發現這個問題我覺得它真的很重要,因為台鐵畢竟是他們的一個骨幹,藝術骨幹那針對治安的部分,我想那時候跟我們的資訊處我們希望能夠針對整個驗證導入第三者來做治安可以達到A級的這樣的一個等級我想這部分我們後續會再去做努力 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
4503.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
4525.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
資安的部分歸資安 我剛剛提的其實不大是資安但是我覺得我很感謝你提到資安的部分如果在您的代理董事長的任內真的可以完成相關A級資安的認證我認為這件事情是會讓國人放心也會讓台灣整體社會的韌性是因此提高可是我要提醒 相關台鐵的演習劇本目前都只有停留在列車事故 對吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
4527.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
4548.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
對大部分是這樣那所以你們的目標是動員災防反恐是對好可是相關社會任性的概念目前我們放進台鐵的演習劇本當中連賴清德總統都要親自主持社會任性因應防疫委員會那我不知道台鐵作為台灣運輸主要的骨幹尤其如果在各種緊急狀況的時候我們有沒有這樣的能力去面對這個事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
4550.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
4572.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
這個部分剛講任性的部分我們目前也會把它導進來這是我們未來要努力的這個我們來做好 這個你們來做我就先把這個概念提出來那到底加入社會任性這個部分要做哪些事情我相信台鐵應該有能力去研究就算如果台鐵自己能力不足也許可以委託外面的專家學者或是跟社會任性防疫委員會討論好 最後一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
4575.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4597.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
這兩天有這個新聞要突襲檢查關於駕駛室的事情因為我們說有這個列車駕駛停車失檔然後台鐵的回應是說要增加突襲檢查但是我看到相關的新聞有公會的代表受訪認為突襲檢查會增加駕駛員的壓力那我很好奇到底這件事情你們未來要怎麼做 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4599.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4628.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
我講說這個其實第一個我先講那個不叫所謂的突襲檢查可是你們新聞是這樣說的不是絕對不是突襲我們是剛講會加強飢餓但是絕對不是用突襲檢查的方式他是靠站的時候我們過去裡面到裡面去看也就是有點是一個指導員到裡面去看他的一些動作有沒有正常之類的那至於影音的這個價值式影音的這個記錄問題其實在幾年前就已經一直在談那當然同仁有一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4629.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4646.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
有一些不一樣的考慮到說隱私的部分之類的我想這部分我覺得最終正道應該是這個還是比較比較正道啦應該要去設置這個影印這樣記錄一個問題因為包括北捷啦其他的大概都有設置這個我們後面會來繼續跟同仁來溝通 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4648.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4672.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
好謝謝次長有承擔自己主動講出關於這個影音紀錄的問題因為如果要增加突襲檢查或者是所謂集合員進到駕駛室其實你需要增加人力而且如果駕駛員是有反彈的我認為需要溝通可是我知道我前一輪的質詢其實我在去年六月我就有問過影音紀錄的問題我知道當時很多工會的成員是反對的我們就公開的說但是在工會成員反對必須要兼顧他們的隱私 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4673.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4690.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
又兼顧國人的用車安全這件事情上我認為是需要溝通 需要討論如何讓所有這些工會成員認為他們是被尊重的不是被窺探的 不是被監視的但是我們的行政機關還是願意對國人的用車安全表示負責我認為這件事情非常非常的困難 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4691.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4708.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
所以如果次長您剛主動講到其實連北捷高鐵都有這個所謂影像紀錄這件事情但如果台鐵要加裝會遇到的困難要拜託次長真的積極的解決也許跟工會成員討論也許我們還有更多社會溝通需要進行是這是我們應該做的好謝謝謝謝次長謝謝主席謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4722.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4738.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
謝謝 我們請廖先祥委員好 謝謝主席 麻煩邀請我們次長請次長委員好 次長好 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4749.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4773.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
這幾天台灣最大的新聞大概跟交通比較沒有直接關係大概都是全球這個金融的劇烈的震盪那包括大家今天台灣的股市廉價完了之後開盤之後就是收盤了那這個當然是一個很不幸的一件事情就是短期的金融的震盪那我提醒次長就是在發生這樣子一個巨大的金融的風暴的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4774.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4799.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
尤其我們的軌道運輸相關的安全的提升可能要提醒一下我們現場的所有的從業人員無論是駕駛或者是戰務的戰務的這個服務人員安全的部分一定要在這幾天要特別的提高警覺尤其我們我們自己本身同仁的身心狀況可能因為我們都是負責第一線的安全的維護自己同仁的這個身心狀況可能主管要多加注意啦好不好謝謝委員提醒 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4800.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4828.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
那這個在劇烈的這個金融這個事件之後啦那我們不曉得川普這個對等關稅的這個問題啦會對國內的這個經貿產生多大的衝擊那全球目前都是一個非常悲觀的狀態如果說他不調整的話那所以說未來可能會有一些國內也會有一些其他的可能這些經濟部優先要關心的事情就是從業人員會不會有五星價還是對國內的產業鏈造成一些裁員等等的 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4829.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4858.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
那其實在過去我們交通部過去一直以來都是非常的積極在不管是我們的台鐵或者是公車的司機等等這些長期以來其實都是缺員非常多的情況啦那未來可能經濟部會提出一些多元就業的安定計畫等等的那我希望我們的相關交通部所屬除了我剛剛提到的單位過去長期以來可能有缺員的一些職缺我們可能可以儘早來提出來以後你之後如果說真的 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4859.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4874.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
造成了更大的危機的時候也都可以第一時間提供給經濟部穩定安定我們國內的就業我想我們交通部雖然說我們不是事主但是我們可能也可以盡我們的一份責任因應這樣的一個狀態那接下來我想跟市長討論的是台鐵票價 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4875.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4894.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
那台鐵票價其實在這個立法院休會期的時候有許多的討論啦其實我都在想是不是要趁立法院休會的時候趕快來放放風下來看看怎麼樣然後這個來一個措手不及啦那目前我們這個董事會通過的方案大概是28%嗎26.8%不好意思口誤26% |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4900.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4920.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
過去其實以來我一直的主張就是合理的公共運輸的一個票價提供給民眾一個穩定舒適安全的乘車體驗我想比一枚的鴨子票價來的重要那有些部分如果說經濟比較弱勢的對票價有負擔壓力的 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4923.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4937.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
他可能是透過他應該是透過社會福利的方式去給他協助而不是說我們降低票價讓我們的公共運輸的服務品質沒辦法提升這是我一直以來我一貫的主張所以說我對於台鐵的票價我一直以來都沒有反對但是誠如剛剛所說的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4942.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4963.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
這個全球的金標發生很大的問題國內的經濟可能短期內也會有很劇烈的波動那我想確認一下這短期內的一個經濟的劇烈的波動會不會成為我們台鐵我們原本是預計六月就是要調整票價會不會是影響我們票價調漲上路的一個因子或者是調漲票價幅度的一個考慮的一個因子 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4965.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4972.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
跟委員報告因為這個案子其實行政院已經核定了那我們現在目前還是依照大概依據在6月26號 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4975.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4999.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
要進行票價的一個調整那因為他其實剛剛提到的我們大概只有26.8%其實以這個利潤課運的部分我們的利潤大概只有抓0.3幾%而已所以幾乎是0也就是說幾乎沒有所謂的報酬率啦所以我想我們已經考慮到所以我還是要提醒一下我們交通部啦或者是我們台鐵還是要考慮一下這個社會的觀感啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
5000.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
5020.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
當然如果說短期內這個經貿的風波過去了當然最好大家都樂見這樣的情況那如果說這樣子一個經貿的危機或國內經濟的問題持續的在升溫的情況那我們台鐵又在相關的運輸票價裡面去漲了20多%那包括高鐵前幾天有新聞出來嘛票價有可能去做一個調整 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
5022.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
5039.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
那其實民眾對於我們這個相關的觀感我認為你們必須要審慎的來評估考慮啦或者說我們當然現在平益是20多%其實我也是認為一次20多%的一個比例這當然是長年累積起來的一個結果不一定責任都在你們的身上那只是說既然要調整的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
5040.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
5064.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
一次20多%其實民眾會感覺是非常大的一個改變我會建議啦就是說逐年的來提升譬如說我們一年或者說因應這個我不會說遇到了金融的問題我們就不調漲我們總是要走第一步但是一次26%如果說到時候國內的可能經濟問題就業問題逐漸浮上檯面之後我們有沒有其他配套的方案能夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
5065.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
5071.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
讓民眾對我們交通部或台鐵不要那種好像我們生活經濟已經很困難了結果你們還在漲票價搶錢這樣子的感覺 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
5073.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
5102.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
我跟委員報告其實剛剛提到票價的部分如果以短程來講我們所謂T-pass所以它其實並不受短期就是我們通勤的並不受影響假設你沒有加多T-pass又沒有T-pass的時候譬如以台北到板橋大概就增加7塊錢比公車比捷運都便宜很多所以並我覺得這樣對應該這樣是有考慮到整個社會的一些接受程度 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
5103.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
5112.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
我還是建議我們的台鐵啦當然這個是核定是政府部門的權責我還是會建議一下這相關調整的比例或者是我們目前面對的國內的一個經濟的一個動態 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
5115.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
5135.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
我們是不是可以考慮我們知道我們長期來台鐵都是在補貼都在虧損補貼的那我建議是不是能夠分年度分段的來調整來避免對我們民眾的衝擊太高以上給我們希望我們能夠多多參考啦好不好再拜託幫幫我們的市長謝謝委員謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
5147.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
5161.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
謝謝 我們請李鴻哲委員謝謝許志傑召委 請一下次長請次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
5170.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
5188.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
市長我們先來討論一下有關於高鐵票降是否調漲的這樣的一個議題那每年的4月交通部會依台灣地區的消費者的總指數來訂定高鐵的一個基本的匯率那他的 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
5189.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
5208.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
時程 流程大概是每年4月的時候先由交通部來訂定票價的一個基準然後高鐵去調整這個票價送到董事會經理有同意再送到立法院來做相關的備查流程應該是這樣沒錯的那我們在 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
5210.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
5224.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
2015年的時候其實交通委員會就有決議這個票價是要送到立法院來備查那為什麼會有2015年這樣一個議題因為在2013年的時候高鐵有第一次的票價調整 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
5225.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
5242.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
那時候在2013年我就提出高鐵的問題是運量而不是票價的這個問題那到2015年也因為財改以及高鐵的營運狀況停滯不前所以又調回原本現在這個票價 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
5244.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
5259.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
我們2024年跟2025年我知道我們交通部依照台灣地區消費者物價的總指數訂定的基本匯率是每公里4.55億元 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
5261.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
5281.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
如果按照這個匯率啊台北到高雄的單程票價它累積有230元的這樣的一個漲價的空間那當然啦我們在2013年我提出這個高鐵的議題啊其實就是它是醞釀的問題而不是票價的問題那高鐵 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
5287.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
5315.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
針對調漲票價與否他主要有內部成本的思考以及外部就是相關的社會經濟環境的問題以及相關的供需以及市場競爭的這樣的一個狀況來做調整那其實我們來看是否有調整的空間我們來看高鐵的運量跟營收其實都是有增加的 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
5316.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
5344.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
高鐵旅客的總人次在2019年的時候總人次是達到他的總人次是達到達到6700萬以上那6億啦 應該是6億人次以上那高鐵的旅客我們來看他的日均人次啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
5346.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
5365.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
六千 這個我們來大家來做確認高鐵旅客的日均人次在2019年的時候是達到18萬人次那2025年2月的時候他的日均人次達到22萬4千人次以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
5366.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
5373.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
那高鐵的營收增加2023年的營業增加營業收入是498億2024年他的營業收入是531億他的營運 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
5379.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
5393.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
他的旅客人士他的收入都有明顯的增加我認為是應該要維持原票價那今年我們就不予同意來做這樣的一個調整這是我的建議來市長簡單說明一下說明一下確實剛剛就如這邊所提的 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
5397.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
5424.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
它運量一直其實在提升比如說以昨天的那個高鐵運量它又32萬比剛講的22本來2月的時候就24萬昨天又創了大概32萬就算是很高我講的是日均人士你講的是廉價期間的這個人士對對我意思說它的其實它不斷的運量不斷的在增加那目前我們確實我個人我也覺得不太適合去談票價調漲的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
5425.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
5447.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
也許過兩年之後那新車進來以後那新車進來以後它一些成本可能會一些增加那時候才是一個比較適合來談票價調整的一個時機好 這個是我們對於高鐵票價調整與否的一個基本的態度那我們接下來來談相關的高雄計畫就是鐵路地下化 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
5448.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
5456.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
它原本就是高雄計畫鳳山計畫以及左營計畫它的總經費是達到998億元那統稱為高雄計畫那這個計畫其實在目前我們來看它相關的這個經費的議題它的總經費是998億那其實到114年 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
5473.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
5477.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
累計總共編了803億元那其實計畫還有195億元那這個我認為鐵道局應該繼續來辦理修正計畫的一個展延這個期程 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
5490.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
5505.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
讓這個經費剩餘的195億還能夠做充分的一個運用那因為我們來看高雄的這個鐵路地下化當然第一階段都已經正式的通車新增加7個通勤車站 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
5506.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
5528.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
然後我們也做了綠園道相關的立體化設施 路橋的拆除 地下道的填平都已經陸續的完成但是還有很多計畫我們還要繼續的去做改善跟充實例如我們的高雄車站與周邊道路的相關的連通 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
5532.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
5547.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
這個楊局長也應該知道我們高雄車站經過一個九如路另外一邊是建國路要到路的另外一邊要橫越馬路我認為應該要做地下通道如果地下通道要做商店街的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
5549.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
5577.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
地下街這樣做商業營運的話是必須要跟高雄市政府來做協調跟處理如果單單是通道的話我們鐵道局就可以去做規劃就可以去做那車站也應該要更智慧化的這樣一個提升那還有車站的一個界面的整合包含這個跟捷運黃線還有相關的這種聯通等等都必須要去 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
5578.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
5606.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
下一步必須要去進行這個施作那還有高鐵南沿的這個計畫到高雄車站相關的介面整合跟先前的工程也都必須要先做處理來我希望這個經費能夠繼續展現來說明一下是跟委員報告謝謝委員的這個提示確實剛剛講的高雄計畫目前大概還有剩錢到他計畫到114那現在我們大概請鐵道局要進行所謂的修正計畫因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
5608.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
5627.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
從這裡面剛剛提到其實周邊還有很多事情可以去做包括像現在我們的高鐵要進到高雄車站跟過去已經不太一樣所以這整個環境必須要再做一個整合我想這個後面我們大概會依照這間委員這樣所一個提議我們會去做辦理修正計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
5628.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
5640.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
另外針對高鐵的一個年度的旅客總人次我在這邊做個補充更正2019年的總人次是6741萬人2024年的總人次達到7825萬人次以上這個搭乘人次是越來越多最後我簡單問一下我們的台鐵 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
5657.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5685.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
北回的這種改善的初步評估計畫就是所謂的轉股計畫因為和平跟崇德之間我多次在交通委員會要求做改善短期的我們針對落實偵測邊坡的這種處理加強他的安全的韌性這是短期的計畫那交通部在我們的要求之下也進行了這樣的一個初步的評估計畫我知道大概有兩個方案第一個方案 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5686.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5711.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
是在仿造這種攔回在海濱設置高架設置高架一個替代方案另外一個就是走比較內陸是做相關的隧道的一個不管是民隧道或是挖隧道來做一個安全改善的這樣的工程那這個評估報告1月的時候已經有送到交通部了對不對來說明一下目前的期程 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5712.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5724.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
沒有,這個大概是還在台鐵內部的一個評估啦剛剛提到這是一個很初步的一個評估你跟台鐵對一下,1月的時候有一個初步的報告有送到這邊,現在在做審查啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5726.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5742.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
沒有那你們現在目前的進度是什麼先要剛剛講這個是一個很初步的評估裡面剛剛提到大概有幾個方案去做一些探討那這邊牽涉到所謂戰場的問題還有第一個如果是走邊這個海邊的部分就是說高架橋的部分當然有場戰的問題還有安全的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5746.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5765.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
還有他的強度的這樣一個韌性的維護還有相關的生態的衝擊等等這都是相關的這個在評估裡面其實市長你都已經初步有知道這樣的一個初步的內容我就說1月的時候就已經有送到交通部初步的東西有讓你們去了解 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5766.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5788.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
那這個我就不跟你爭論了那相關的資料我等一下給你看那相關的有關於台鐵票價問題就已經確認今年就不予討論了是不是這樣票價我們因為行政已經通過我想我們大概還是不是我講的是高鐵高鐵不會高鐵不會高鐵剛剛講的目前還沒有接到通知會議會計調長 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5803.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5816.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
謝謝坤哲委員這個那個希望交通部注意一下這個高鐵鋼的承諾這對人民是一個很重要的承諾好我們現在請魯明哲委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5829.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5852.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
好 謝謝主席有請我們這個現在變董事長 吳董跟次長請次長次長就請教一下我們現在剛剛這個台鐵啦台鐵的一個票價它的一個幅度它的現在進度14日期確定沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5853.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5865.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
跟委員報告我想這部分因為行政已經核定了大概我們預估什麼時候實施目前一定是6月23日要調整6月份 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5868.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5894 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
其實我們當然看到每一次任何費用要調帳的時候我們勢必會有一些民怨產生但對台鐵幾十年票價沒有調過然後大家又對你的安全包括你的新車包括你的革新有很多期待但這一次我在坊間聽到的當然我們有些民怨肯定是有 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5894.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5912.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
但我覺得對於你們一個調帳的這個部分民眾更在意說他的錢用到哪裡去了再來就是說這樣可以促成你什麼樣的一個革新安全怎麼樣去提升我相信這個部分在台鐵也有這樣的一個認知吧是有好 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5914.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5930.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
錢用到哪裡去這是一個感受的問題你自己的每天的財務報表年度的部分只有你自己的看到民眾的一個感受啊我就覺得不管是台鐵交通部甚至現在代理董事長你們真的要去注意這個問題啊市長請問一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5934.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5960.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
這個紀念燈光八千萬 超過八千萬主任你是不是事前知情 還是推手之一這之前是有台鐵局 台鐵公司在處理的我是大概是當天知道的八千多萬 但是我知道報紙出來 你跟我們一樣 報紙出來你才知道不是 那個隧道燈光我知道 有做這個隧道燈光但是那個價錢是哪一天才知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5961.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5986.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
好那接下來是不是台鐵封什麼這個因為最主要是這樣第一個8000多萬這個是經費讓我們所有的人民感覺是怎麼會相對這麼高第二個是它這個燈光不是每天開大概按照你們的規劃每一年的4月2號開到4月6號就一年365天營業5天 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5989.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
6005.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
那我就請教一下這個總經理來回答了那你這個部分為什麼不每天開會不會造成什麼平常列車的一個什麼樣的一個影響為什麼不每天開你說一下包委員先要做回應第一點是剛才說設置其實在 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
6006.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
6030.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
在112年的過程中我們跟家屬討論好幾次就包括要設一個紀念碑、牆還有地景的一個形式那過程中因為還涉及到這個是太魯閣國家公園的一個保育地區所以也不適合做大量的一些設施所以最後才家屬有提出來說那用光影的方式來紀念所以我問你為什麼不每天開啦一年只能開五天 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
6031.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
6056.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
好這個前面有說明第二個是說開放的啟用時間主要這個這個光影紀念燈光隧道紀念燈光他目的是在在追思然後在反省讓讓台鐵可以反省讓社會大眾能夠這個看到這個燈光能夠再提醒警惕台鐵繼續完成安全改革所以基於這個目的所以在選定在事故發生的4月2號為期5天的時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
6059.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
6082.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
這會造成行車安全上面的一些顧慮對 在過程中其實在決定這個用隧道紀念燈光我們也經過充分討論我們所有相關部門包括機務的部門 行車的部門都有做討論這會對行車的安全整體如果每一台列車都開的話整體評估會不會對於你們火車行車的安全是降低還是提升 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
6083.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
6109.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
我們是盡量避免他對司機員行車的影響所以那個燈光是在我們駕駛艙過去以後才會開始起你花了八千萬是第一個問題第二個問題是說你採用一種降低可能降低行車安全的方式來紀念一場非常慘的行車的事故我覺得對於往生者傷亡者的紀念 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
6111.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
6135.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
對於我們現在家屬的安慰最大安慰是什麼就是台鐵的革新跟安全體能就這兩項而已就這兩項你現在用一個開燈可能會造成不管是司機員反光或者因為光太亮如果有異物進入的時候不易發現你用減損安全的方式來紀念我個人覺得錢是一個問題我是覺得蠻大的一個諷刺 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
6139.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
6163.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
第二個 這也是你們台鐵第一次在紀念這樣的一個事故我是覺得值得紀念但是你們第一次採用直接在火車的軌道 隧道 行車路線上去擺設 設計這個紀念這是很恐怖的二 我們普悠瑪 普悠瑪事件也是 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
6165.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
6184.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
很糟糕啊在哪紀念呢你們都是異地嘛去台東火車站前面的紀念公園你們現在擺到軌道中啊我跟你講要不要人去維修要不要回修你說都沒事反光可以忍過看不到衣物那就每天在比運氣然後再來呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
6185.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
6197.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
什麼時候要去維修呢肯定要維修嘛不然隔一年這五天怎麼會亮呢誰進這隧道維修他要不要開機具進去每一個都是安全風險的因子啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
6199.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
6227.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
我真的是覺得你們在普悠瑪的一個事故花了836萬836萬在這個異地在台東的一個車站前面借那我不知道為什麼我跟你講不要扯到家屬家屬說換一種敬念碑的方式並沒有說你一定要用燈光說要用燈光並沒有說要花8000萬花2000萬不行嗎這是你們設計你們後面的一個制度啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
6229.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
6252.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
我想這個時間不夠啦 最後我也講 因為你們兩個監理單位不同那剛剛第一件事你們自己去思考 監理單位不同 裁發標準不一樣正好112年9月之前 是我們當時的伍聖元你當鐵道局的局長 你現在是次長那我們現在楊振軍是現任鐵道局的 接任你的一個局長我覺得很奇怪你知道嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
6253.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
6264.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
那台鐵一直每天開每天開都不變問題大到小小都有結果奇怪了在112年9月11號以前居然監理單位沒有裁罰過 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
6266.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
6289.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
你知道嗎 即使在110年的時候太魯閣出軌 甚至更早的時候普庸馬我們當時的監理單位居然沒有開罰我們調資料沒有開罰發生什麼大事都是小事只要蓋得住 掩得住 藏得住都是小事但是我們看到112年9月11號之後是因為楊局長你上任之後這個革新勵志嗎 還是怎樣 我不懂啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
6291.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
6304.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
連續17個月開了12件那我覺得這個你去研究吧是以前太混了還是太認真了還是台鐵越變越差為什麼 什麼原因但是我最後一件事我真的要提醒你們 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
6305.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
6320.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
很多常在細節你現在是看小事一個小的裂縫哪天變成大裂縫的時候你們來不及你看看這12條裁罰的一個理由啊你請問一下注意看第三跟第五淺藍色標示那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
6322.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
6339.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
就是你們規定要九冊就未實施九冊也可以上去開那是什麼原因我是想不通啦到底為什麼這麼鬆散當然這112年的現在倒過去就罰那接下來呢有六件事情用紅色底的這個標示全部都是 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
6341.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
6358.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
體檢不合格的人上去運物站值班站長或者執行行車工作他就不合格我們陸海空相關的有一些職業人員你必須經過體檢因為他有一定的公共的責任車上幾百人 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
6360.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
6369.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
結果我看都高雄站我不知道在肯定誰知道哪一個司機員哪個體檢過哪一個體檢不過只有內部知道但你內部再怎麼鬥或者有什麼問題剛剛提的是對的啊而且鐵道局也下去去確認啊你是不合格體檢不合格的人不斷的去這個你覺得是不是不應該 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
6387.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
6403.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
不適任體檢不適合的人不斷上去 總經理你答體檢不合格我們是不能派任擔任不能派任 為什麼派了呢我們現在都有特別按照鐵路法的相關規定我們體檢合格的人員才會擔任執行官 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
6405.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
6422.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
第二十二項是一百一四年才發日期當然你發生日期是一百一十二年我最後也是希望鐵道局去研究一下你開個罰單要延遲兩年去檢驗現在一百一三年都沒問題嗎一張罰單一百一四年都沒問題嗎我覺得你這個東西要立竿見影 次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
6424.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
6442.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
督導一下有問題輔導期之後你說三個月對不對四個月你罰單就要開出來為什麼讓他公司能夠有這個依據內部一個懲處嘛像高雄站發生這麼嚴重的事這麼多次他的管理單位他的高層發生一次你處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
6443.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
6447.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
我跟委員報告 鐵路法是在112年修訂那剛提到那些 其實我現在要求鐵道局他針對台鐵的所謂的退行 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
6469.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
6484.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
耗資冒進這些要加強來處分也就是講白一點就是裁罰如果違反這個規定這是最基本的也就是說你的燈號沒有依照燈號去做這是很基本的所以這部我已經要求鐵道局這個要來嚴格執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
6485.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
6504.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
好 希望鐵道局能夠加快這種從看到這個事件到最後開罰因為你們在處理我們調資料也沒有 對不對到底113年發生什麼事到現在我調不到但我覺得這不好啦你委員也是好心在幫你們去push這件事情抱歉 耽誤很多時間 謝謝謝謝委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
6517.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
6534.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
謝謝我們請林郭城委員黃主席請我們正式我們吳董事長還有我們馮總經理請市長還有馮總蔣委好 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
6542.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
6550.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
好正次我問這個題目台鐵董事長什麼時候產生 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
6553.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
6578.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
你說未來的事?對你現在是代理嘛對我現在是代理因為我現在問你是問政治長官有在努力在找這個適合的人選好那現在都還沒有確定就對了好那個其實政治我們很可惜的就杜威董事長其實他蠻 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
6580.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
6602.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
聽底下的建議其實工會給我的意見對他的離開有一點依依不捨啦依依不捨其實他還是老台鐵所以當然這是一些所有所屬員工的一個心聲其實未來要找他既然堅持要找 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
6604.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
6623.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
未來要找還是要像可以聽見工會聲音的董事長所以這點我特別跟我們正式要做一個建議讓部長考慮到這個問題千萬不要以顏色之分就是專長取勝 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
6626.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
6652.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
也就是用專業人才來經營台鐵公司這樣的成功率會比較高所以我特別跟政策去做一個建議現在吳董事長現在你們在做任何決策有沒有考慮因為我們台鐵有兩個工會一個企業工會一個產業工會他們的意見你們有沒有採納 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
6654.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
6679.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
工會的意見 度威的時候不要講啦就是你現在在代理董事長的部分是 我跟委員報告工會意見其實我們都有在溝通他的意見我們都會來來聽聽他的意見是怎麼樣那當然如果說有不一樣意見我們會進行溝通這個部分我們都溝通的管道很暢通好 吳董事長我給你提供一個意見工會有四大問題第一 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
6683.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
6703.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
維修預算不足的問題這個那個董事長聽完以後再來做回答另外就是留財待遇方案失敗的問題還有新人招募落後的問題還有人事政策錯誤的問題這四個問題董事長 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6709.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6725.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
總經理也可以回答到底有沒有聽得進去那我看這四個題目很簡單耶當事人 總經理這四個都是為公司好的議案啊那你們為什麼他們提出來的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6726.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6749.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
你都不要聽這是什麼意思 我也不知道因為這裡面四個主題當中他沒有行私為他加薪或者為他要爭取什麼獎金等等都是為了公司經營這四個方向董事長 你的看法這四個問題到底你有什麼看法 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6752.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6777.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
剛講的預算不足我現在上任以後其實也跟到工會去跟他們談過 溝通過那我想只要他提出我們目前的預算一些急迫性的預算我們這邊都一定...他講的是維修啦 維修預算不足的問題啦我想有他急迫性我們一定會處理因為這涉及到安全問題嘛招募的問題呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6778.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6806.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
招募問題我講這樣子因為現在我們台鐵公司有分兩個制度一個就是原來留任的留任就是原來自衛制的人所以他適用原來的那現在這個所謂的從人員他大概目前行政院也核定了一個新級的的一個那個薪水的一個方案那這裡面啊我剛看了因為我們的他從人員他可以4.4個月原來的就職的部分留任人員大概只有2.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6807.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6837.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
我想這4.4就是一個機率另外最近我們在跟部裡面我們在爭取所謂的從人員的那些危險加急還有這個偏遠地區加急的部分如果這些的部分從原來的我們的起薪大概3萬6大概可以達到4萬4左右最高可以到4萬4好啦吳董吳董我們說實在的啦 工會的意見當然我們要重視啦其實我看完這些啊還有一個最重要的 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6837.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6845.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
我希望吳董事長要去注意就是人事政策的錯誤 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6847.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6871.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
這個要特別因為所謂人事政策的錯誤講快一點嘛他不是這個專長然後你們擺在這個專長這個是非常嚴重所以當然這種實力也不需要一一攤在陽光下可是我必須要讓吳董事長還有馮總經理你們要去了解在整個晉升方面不能因為啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6872.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6890.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
親疏遠離有所差別這樣的話就沒有公平競爭當然所有的員工他就無法去用賣命的心態去做我們的員工該做的事所以這個非常重要非常重要那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6892.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6920.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
來總經理我現在就是說以為台鐵國營公司化之後應該在國安因為每一次我都問到那個安全的問題那安全的問題當然我一直在拜託各位領導幹部也就是說你應該要比照高鐵的風險管理也就是風險的監控這個部分我們接下來看 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6921.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6927.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
我們來看一下 112年我們還是國營的時候改為公司的話 113年為什麼他的事故本來7770件那為什麼113年又增加1009件 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6944.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6962.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
董事長為什麼這樣?總經理你還可以回答我先講一下再請總經理補充這個部分我想跟委員報告一三因為他的有零四零二就是去年零四零二地震造成尤其是花東的部分造成真的比較大的影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6963.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6977.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
那以最近來講像前陣子我們發生過我也不曉得為什麼會車子會從平台開到我的軌道上因為這樣導致我雙向都變成沒辦法通影響我一千多分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6978.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
7000.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
這我想對我們來講都是一個很大的問題扣除這些應該是跟原來可能跟去年應該是不然應該要更進步啦因為你說實話之後有很多事情就像我們下午要幫你們鬆綁了這些有關法令的限制這些等等基本上我們都支持嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
7001.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
7016.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
但是你不能公司化以後比國營化的時候因為國營化它法令限制比較多嘛那公司化以後它依照公司化的經營那範圍會比較大所以我還是希望最後一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
7016.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
7044.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
我想特別要提醒董事長跟總經理也就是應安會給我們台鐵公司的應安改善的問題你們都只有做半套喔做半套這點我要提醒啊董事長就是公司的安全就是客戶的平安所以你們不能因為啊就是這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
7046.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
7062.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
應安會給你們的東西你們都遲遲不改進這對理科是沒有保障的所以我還是希望董事長跟總經理要針對這些問題啊特別要去做一些適度的改進那當然我們也希望 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
7065.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
7078.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
公司化之後當然範圍比較寬那也希望著重在旅客安全跟我們的運安安全的方面要去投入更多的改善那我憑良心講 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
7080.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
7100.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
我從來不做台鐵那我為了這個事情我一直去做台鐵那做台鐵主要是試看看你們有沒有改進確實多部分的班次你們說做到準時的這個問題所以我還是要勉勵啊特別勉勵我們吳董事長還有馮總經理特別要去註解第一 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
7106.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
7119.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
工會的問題第二該改進的要改進這點我特別拜託兩位可以做到這樣對理科安全平安才會有所幫助好不好這是我們應該做的好謝謝好謝謝委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
7129.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
7149.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
謝謝等一下陳樹岳林軍那個王逸川諮詢完畢休息10分鐘我們現在請陳樹岳委員歡迎謝謝主席請主席邀請吳代理董事長請那個次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
7156.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
7185.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
委員好 吳次長早安 早我們知道台鐵公司化去年是第一年公司化第一年就遇到了花蓮的強震也遇到了多個颱風的侵襲我們看到台鐵的員工在天災發生了損害之後冒險搶修讓我們交通可以趕快的恢復所以在這邊本席也感謝我們台鐵所有的員工的 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
7185.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
7211.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
辛苦可以說是冒著生命的一個危險所以在這邊本席要關心的就是說有關我們台鐵員工的這個危險津貼還有夜點費還有地域加擠這個部分因為我在去年的10月的在委員會裡面我也有關心這個相關的議題那當時部長也有回覆說會盡速來研議那現在也過了半年多了我不曉得說這個部分我們到底有沒有進度 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
7212.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
7228.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
我跟委員報告,這部分剛剛提到的所謂危險津貼夜點會第一佳績的部分最近我們已經報到部裡面,我們在跟部裡面爭取,應該我想我們加強溝通,應該會希望能夠很快就可以下來 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
7229.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
7252.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
很快大概什麼時候預計我們再跟那個部裡面再做溝通我們是已經報上去了這部分我們也希望就是說為我們這個辛苦的還有這個非常在這樣子一個危險的工作環境裡面的台鐵員工爭取應該有的福利另外我們大家也都非常的關心這個台鐵的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
7254.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
7269.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
人力的一個部分因為我們台鐵肩負著這個交通運輸一個重責大任那這個服務品質也非常的重要當然也是牽涉到整個行車安全那我們看到目前我們截至113年底我們台鐵的員工確數仍然高達1628人 是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
7276.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
7295.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
那在這個部分我不曉得說對於這樣子的一個人員沒有辦法補齊然後也在沒有辦法補齊的狀況下也有同時這個在流失的狀況所以這樣子當然對我們的經營可能會更加的一個困難所以這部分我們有沒有什麼樣的一個對策 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
7296.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
7317.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
我想跟委員報告因為第一批大概去年的三四月的時候已經招募了那第二批次也是在最近也在招募我想我們會依照目前招募的情況如果不夠的話我們再進行第三次那剛剛我這邊要特別提的可能有外界在講說那為什麼沒有人報名 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
7318.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
7342.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
那最近我在內部討論的時候,我是跟同仁講剛剛提到的就是剛剛前面所提的危險津貼、低佳餘這些如果不明我們爭取到了,我會希望把它放到我們的招生簡章讓有報考的議員能更了解如果以現在我們最基層的大概是三萬六起跳 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
7343.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
7362.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
那加上這些幾個危險津貼啦這個這個偏遠地區的家籍這些啦月點費大概最高的可以到4萬4我想這部分我們會把它放到裡面讓那個有興趣的這個外界的更清楚我們的薪資的一個待遇 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
7364.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
7384.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
司長剛剛有提到 事實上我們也都有看到就是招募的狀況不理想那同時這個人才的流失也是很嚴重那剛剛司長有提到就是起薪的問題那所以我們在看說我們比較就是交通部轄下的國營事業起薪台鐵公司可以說是最低的 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
7384.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
7411.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
雖然說我們還有這個危險津貼還有夜點費等等可是這個應該是他們這個工作的一個性質的一個額外的我覺得這個部分不能夠算在內我覺得應該去考慮整個起薪的一個部分這樣子應該才比較能夠吸引這個人才或者是說吸引這個有興趣的人可以來投入我們台鐵的服務的一個行列是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
7411.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
7434.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
是這個我想剛提到的這裡面我是不知道他們這裡面的起薪的部分他因為當然跟工作的性質有點關係不過如果光是以這樣的一個數據來看我想未來我們大概目前是應該3600大概是目前報出來的那未來我想如果有那個機會也許我們可以再考量一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
7434.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
7451.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
是好因為有關這個人員缺額的部分也牽涉到整個服務品質也牽涉到行車安全因為我想這個都是大家非常關心的那我們看到台鐵公司的話到今天已經屆滿一年了可是這個安全問題卻層出不窮 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
7455.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
7459.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
因為我們看到這個事故率在113年度事故數是976件比這個112年增加了202件這個增加的幅度高達26%可以說是創五年來的新高那這半年來這個陸續發生的這個事故裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
7474.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
7502.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
又有好幾件事沒有依照這個SOP的這樣子的一個執行程序這個就牽涉到人員教育訓練的一個部分那因為流動率高然後招募不到這個新的人才我想在這個教育訓練上可能就是會有發生斷層的一個問題或者是不足的問題我想這個對整個行車安全是一個很大的問題跟威脅所以在這部分不曉得這個伍次長有沒有什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
7503.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
7530.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
好的對策來改善這樣子的一個面臨的狀況我想剛剛講這個半年這五次幾乎大部分我們去檢視大部分是因為人為人為因素就是沒有一招相關的SOP去做那這中間到底是他訓練隊長那個環境的不熟悉還是訓練的問題我想這部分我們後續第一個心理一定會去加強第二個考核部分我們會加強考核 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
7530.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
7539.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
那當然這個人力不足的部分我們會盡快來補足剛提到如果說我們的招募上有缺額我們會繼續再進行招募 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
7540.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
7564.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
是好我想就是我們也看到次長在你的臉書也有提到就是員工是台鐵最珍貴的資產所以我們應該也要從這個方向去思考然後能夠就是有比較好的一個條件來吸引人才留住人才然後有完善的教育訓練然後這樣子才能夠確保整個這個行車的一個安全然後有更好的一個服務的一個品質 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
7565.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
7589.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
所以我想就是說針對其實今天很多委員都是一直在關心的就是這個台鐵安全或者是員工的減輕他們的負擔或者是提供員工的待遇等等這個台鐵目前面臨的幾個大的一個課題我們希望就是說台鐵這邊要用心審慎的去研擬更好的一個方案對策來解決這些問題是 我們來努力好 謝謝好 謝謝委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
7603.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
7631.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
謝謝 我們請王逸川委員好 謝謝召委我們請伍次長跟馮總經理請次長跟馮總委員好好 次長好 最近這個台鐵公司的在交通部的考程 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
7632.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
7659.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
引發一些爭議我先請問一下這個台鐵的票箱收入佔整個台鐵的營業收入大概多少報告委員我們票箱收入佔我們營業的整個收入如果不含政府補助是79%那如果含政府補助大概是55%左右那台鐵自從這個公司化以後 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
7661.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
7664.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
一般照公司的邏輯要賺錢可是一個國營的公司應該以賺錢為目的 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
7669.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
7692.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
我問次長,你覺得一個國營的鐵路公司不全然,社會的責任還是在所以有些時候要配合政府的政策所以我是建議交通部在對台鐵公司做考程的時候這部分一定要納入考量 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
7693.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
7711.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
因為它跟譬如說中華郵政不一樣它跟一些交通部所屬的這些公司在做考程的時候不一樣因為台鐵像現在也要承擔TPAS也要承擔各縣市的敬老愛心卡 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
7713.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
7741.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
那這個部分對台鐵來說多這些業務跟以前在台鐵局的時候這個差很多那這都給走給了雖然中央政府最後都還是給了補貼或者縣市政府給了補貼但是你說要變成做了這件事情多賺到錢其實很困難所以這塊請交通部務必在台鐵公司做考程的時候把這一條納入考量第二這個我們現在推動這個TPAS |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
7743.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
7770.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
占台鐵目前的營業收入大概多少T-BUS目前占我們的收入大概是20%左右那如果占票箱收入占整體票箱收入就占我們的整個票箱收入是14%占整個票箱收入14%這一塊也是交通部也要補貼 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7772.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7791.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
對 這個部分其實台鐵TPAS是只收9折的票價那其餘的就是交通部還有地方政府他們有一個那個這個金流庫那台鐵公司因為執行了TPAS的計畫對台鐵的財務造成負擔還是對台鐵來說整體是好的 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7798.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7822.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
這個部分在台鐵的運量部分如果從整體運量我們的運量從TPAS執行以後是有持續在增加但是因為我們還有負擔社會責任就是有9折的票價所以整個就整體收入而言我們是還要承擔部分的社會責任好所以站在公司的立場這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7824.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7837.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
台鐵公司 去執行T-PASS的發起者敢不敢收嗎就剛才證實說 我們還要承擔社會責任讓大家的通勤能夠更便利 還有可以負擔 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7838.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7863.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
好 那台鐵因為公司化以後的薪水分兩塊那原來的員工 尤其是跟技術部門有關的員工我想台鐵公司也一直希望能夠把這些員工留下來那因為既然公司化 跟一般的公務體系不太一樣公務體系就是你時間到了 烤雞到了就往上升 對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7864.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7889.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
那公司化對於比較這一個公司希望他留下來的這些人才在薪資上就台鐵公司目前的薪資結構上有沒有彈性這部分跟委員報告因為他那時候選擇的是選擇原來的資位就是留任所以他還是適用原來的薪資薪資量一個制度所以沒有彈性 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7891.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7906.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
可以這麼說 彈性很小那可不可以把它變成有彈性一點現在我們在考慮他那個主管家級看可不可以去做中間做一些調整對 因為你現在新進的員工在技術上可能也補不上 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7907.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7921.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
那資深的員工可能留下來還要做傳承他時間一夠 薪水還沒去他可能就想要走這都很有可能所以在留住資深員工尤其是技術部門 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7922.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7944.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
那個客服部門這個重要不是這個有沒有必要把他那麼留下來用那麼高的薪水把他留下來就跟技術部門相比就不太一樣所以技術部門的這部分我建議你們一定要能夠把他在談薪水上能夠有彈性是那剛剛提到這個你們的徵才有時候不太容易 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
7945.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
7971.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
那現在台鐵公司有沒有具體跟技職體系的學校真的有具體的合作計畫也就是說他可能念高中開始 念高中開始其實就台鐵員工的一部分那台鐵介入到這個學校的授課那他高中高工念完三年之後其實就馬上上位了那台鐵派員工到學校去上課 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
7972.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
7992.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
那這些學生很快就變台鐵員工目前有沒有具體的這樣的計畫我們針對這個就所謂的產學合作目前其實是有在推好像是八所的高中高中職針對這部分我們跟他合作那這個有沒有保障 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
7993.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
8007.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
目前是只有產學合作的管道他們還是要透過考試我覺得你們應該介入他們的課程然後保障他們這樣這些學校也很好招生是就是說國中畢業他去讀這間高中他就叫台鐵科 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
8011.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
8032.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
台鐵科啦不要模模糕糕的台鐵科他高一級就開始在技術工開始二你們派資深的員工去做老師然後這樣訓練三年那上課實習的場域都在台鐵的維修場域在技術部門的場域三年後他的他就變台鐵公司的員工啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
8033.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
8045.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
像你不用訓練啊學校就幫你訓練而且你們的資深員工就剛好是老師不然這樣有時候你們雜入這樣的產學而做啊有點在牽MOU的感覺 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
8046.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
8070.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
有點在形式上我建議這一塊他能不能跟教育部大家討論一下怎麼樣讓他能夠具體的落實最後一個問題是當時台鐵從這個政府部門變成公司化的時候台鐵公司也提出如果台鐵公司化可以提升行車安全你們要記得這個承諾那這個承諾目前達成的狀況是怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
8075.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
8087.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
目前現在目前的數據看起來是還有很大的空間關鍵在哪裡我想安全文化的意識沒有升值 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
8087.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
8115.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
好就是說公司化那義士安全義士全體員工都要一起加強對應該一起加強那這一塊就是要台鐵跟這個台鐵工會跟所有的員工尤其是領導的階層大家要一起成長一起努力否則你們當時答應台灣社會說這個台鐵公司化行政安全會提升的當時要公司化這是很重要的關鍵 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
8116.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
8130.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
那如果沒有達成那當時公司化的承諾就是跳票所以這一塊希望台鐵公司從領導階層到最基層的員工大家一起對行車安全一起努力好 謝謝好 謝謝委員好 現在休息十分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
8166.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
8166.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
謝謝觀看 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
8188.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
8209.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
謝謝大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
8236.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
8236.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
蜂蜜 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
8249.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
8249.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
謝謝大家 下次見 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
8252.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
8282.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
然後這個叫做花開嗎?這不是花開嗎?這不是花開嗎?這不是花開嗎?這不是花開嗎?這不是花開嗎?這不是花開嗎?這不是花開嗎?這不是花開嗎?這不是花開嗎?這不是花開嗎?這不是花開嗎?這不是花開嗎?這不是花開嗎?這不是花開嗎?這不是花開嗎?這不是花開嗎?這不是花開嗎?這不是花開嗎?這不是花開嗎?這不是花開嗎?這不是花開嗎?這不是花開嗎?這不是花開嗎?這不是花開嗎?這不是花開嗎?這不是花開嗎?這不是花開嗎?這不是花開嗎?這不是花開嗎?這不是花開嗎?這不是花開嗎?這不是花開嗎?這不是花開嗎?這不是花開嗎?這不是花開嗎?這不是花開嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
8282.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
8312.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
8314.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
8315.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
謝謝觀看,下次見 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
8336.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
8359.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
謝謝觀賞 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
8374.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
8377.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
我底下 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
8405.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
8406.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
謝謝收看,下次見 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
8429.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
8434.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
這間餐廳的餐廳是一間餐廳的餐廳 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
8451.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
8451.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
蜜蜂 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
8496.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
8498.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
鸡蛋糕 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
8506.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
8513.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
我們需要一組多點擔當 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
8535.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
8564.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
我們現在要做的就是,我們要做的就是,我們要做的就是, |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
8570.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
8572.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
谢谢观看 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
8578.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
8596.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
這間餐廳有很多不同的餐廳 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
8607.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
8617.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
謝謝觀看,下次見 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
8622.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
8622.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
謝謝大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
8666.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
8682.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
嗯嗯嗯 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
8693.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
8702.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
響鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
8766.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
8768.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
放在一边 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
8792.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
8795.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
嗯嗯 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
8809.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
8833.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
法定人數不足 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
8840.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
8866.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
響鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
8915.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
8916.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
再問一遍 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
8958.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
8977.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
好 先來繼續開會 我們請林俊憲委員好 感謝主席 本席要請我們交通部五次長請次長我們鐵道局 鐵道局楊局長局長 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
8979.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
9006.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
文化部今天是文治局專委上文治局專委 委員好市長好本期要先來關心我們台南火車站就台南市的鐵路地下化現在非常重要的就是具有台南火車站的工程現在第二月台要如何處置第一月台是要保留 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
9008.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
9036.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
這屬於文化資產保護啦這個第一月台這沒有問題像是第二月台的問題那第二月台好像之前鐵道局是說那個下城市廣場以北的部分第二月台保留但廣場以南的部分第二月台要先拆掉到別的地方再重組這個如果做文物保留本席沒有意見我現在擔心的是會不會影響到接下來的地下化工程的進度 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
9037.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
9066.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
因為之前在地下化工程施工的時候就曾經會挖到文物遺址嘛已經停工兩年了當時就已經延宕兩年現在處理好了現在又遇到了這個火車站站體本身第二月台的問題好像在前幾天有開那個審議嘛是不是這樣有審議結論怎麼樣那第二月台有沒有共識第二月台處理有共識嗎現在有沒有人知道沒有人知道知道知道好來來請回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
9070.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
9093.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
第二月台的部分它對我們來說是報告案那原來他們希望的部分是讓它是之後是會在原地重組不會讓它移到其他的地方所以可以先拆除在原地重組嗎對所以大家跟文化界人士已經有共識了是是是是海上委員會沒有提出報告好那局長那這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
9097.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
9115.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
會不會再耽誤到我們台南市鐵路地下化工程好 鮑偉我想這部分對第一階段的下地通車沒有影響也就是說後續怎麼樣去幫他控住你上面車站的問題對對對上面車站的問題那現在我們下方的軌道都跟相關的隧道工程都在積極的進行當中好 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
9116.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
9139.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
希望能夠盡速如期的我們來完成台南市最重要的一個公共工程這之一就是我們的鐵路地消化這個也是我們賴總統在他市長任內這個可以說是全力推動你也知道在這個過程也遇到一些困難但是我們都逐一的克服這個對未來 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
9141.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
9158.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
整個台南市的發展可以說是非常非常重要將既有的救市區因為鐵軌分成兩邊我們把它封合起來希望能夠如期完成 好吧好 這個沒問題那我現在那文哲舉可以 可不可以坐 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
9160.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
9181.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
我現在要請教兩位知不知道在今年年初過年小年夜的時候曾經發生我們的台鐵列車大霧點就是因為我們的號誌整個突然間故障號誌整個都亂掉了 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
9182.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
9206.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
那小連夜正是運輸尖峰的時候那突然間怎麼會造成這樣的一個大霧點後來去查原因就是耗資出了問題為什麼出問題因為電纜被偷減了市長你知道這個事情嗎我知道 我知道這個事情那我現在在想的就是我們的海底電纜發生多次了 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
9207.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
9235.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
被應該說肯定都是中國的船隻用故意的就這樣騷擾你就把海底電纜給撤斷了已經發生很多起了前幾天還發生中國的船隻又撤斷我們的電纜我們把人跟船壓回我們台灣港內來處理的事件那現在台鐵的電纜被剪斷 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
9236.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
9258.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
所以我就好奇 我就去查一下資料台鐵過去五年來它的電纜被剪斷像在2020年就一次了 2021年也一次2022年開始被偷減電纜的次數就大幅增加到去年就被剪斷了九次了 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
9260.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
9274.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
那因為台鐵也屬於國家基礎設施就是它國安設施的一部分所以你台鐵的電纜被剪斷這個要通報國土安全辦公室那也引起了行政院的注意 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
9275.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
9295.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
那這個事情次長你了解嗎我知道跟委員報告齁這個案子目前是已經破案齁目前齁 暫時排除有所謂你都是用竊盜罪嘛對對 那主要是因為那我會擔心嘛不管他是不是真的竊盜罪啦你只要被剪斷啦你整個 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
9296.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
9307.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
交通動線就受影響是乘客的權利就受影響對 上次小連夜就是因為這個原因所以造成我們整個第一個 我那時候懷疑就是說為什麼小連夜小連夜正式啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
9310.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
9337.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
運量最繁忙的時候那你那個時候去檢啊這個小時候你會被逮捕那個絕對會被抓到不是啦就是說那個警方就會有破案的壓力嘛對不對再來早年台灣還有偷加電算啦偷加電那麼去買啦現在很多有人在偷加電那麼去買什麼啦很多人去買這個啦是不是那結果反而相反啦你現在一年發生的次數越來越多啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
9339.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
9368.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
所以我要請台鐵我們鐵路檢查局今天有沒有來沒有來你隨便都把它當成就是一般的缺案就把它給結案了但是我們要做一些預防因為你台鐵是國家基礎安全設施基礎建設之一所以我就請教台鐵我說像你這樣電纜你2024年已經發生了九次幾乎每一個月都被剪斷一次了這還得了 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
9369.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
9397.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
我就請教台鐵 那你如何來反映啦 來回應啦 將電纜被偷減來 處長我給你看喔 局長你看一下這是台鐵啊 回覆給本席的公文啦我問他說你如何去防止 或者是預防 或者是如何去處理你的電纜被偷減你可不可以代替一下給我說 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
9399.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
9402.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
但是你說他要去打警告標語你再給我胡攏音也不要給我亂寫我問你如何去處理你電纜你現在暴增被偷檢的次數啦去年已經到9次了我問他你怎麼處理他給我恢復這個公文啦 出掉了你說他要去打警告標語叫大家不要來逃退啦 大家忙來做菜啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
9429.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
9455.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
跟委員報告 這個說法是確實是比較消極啦不是消極 你隨便給我呼嚨我還是立法委員 我還是交通委員會的委員我問你如果處理 你給我說你沒去圍牆貼警告標語叫大家忙來做菜 大家不可以偷家電 電線電纜因為亂來意那我再舉一個例子給你看我去查一下人家國外怎麼做法 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
9456.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
9485.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
你不努力也要用功一下 查一下這是英國鐵路公司啦英國鐵路公司的網頁他專門有一個頁面是在告訴大家這種電纜的確案他們公司要如何來應對我們台鐵也沒有任何頁面在講這個事情可見你過去都完全不把它當一回事啦但是當你一年有發生到九次從原本一年一次現在一年沒有九次被剪斷電纜 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
9486.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
9508.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
因為偷電纜是很愚蠢的竊盜行為很不容易囂張也沒有什麼人在買那個東西那你如果去防止你也要稍微研究一下隨便給我丟個公文你給我打發說你要去大警告標語就是很亂來的那我再給你參考一下像英國鐵路公司那怎麼處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
9509.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
9534.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
第一個他說因為有去偷檢所以他們用那個是可以追蹤的電纜就增加你囂張就是你這個檢下來就算髒物你就很難賣掉了第二個因為不是每一個路段都有可能被侵入去偷檢所以他在很可能會被偷檢的地方他都有裝置一些像監視設備甚至感應儀器還有他的電纜都是特殊的電纜 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
9539.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
9563.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
這國外有這樣的方法你可以去學嘛而不是貼個標語那如果萬一再發生我現在給你調你的資料你看你去年被剪斷9次那你絕對就是延誤班那個乘客的班車的時間啊 乘客的權利你一年損失多少你自己有沒有算所以切到不是不是剪下來就算了 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
9564.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
9573.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
因為你有成本啦 你要賠人家車票給人家退票你要補償乘客啊你一年因為棄案 撩我的錢 你知道嗎台北縣有沒有來總經理你知道嗎你也要算這個啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
9581.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
9595.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
那鐵路警察局今天也沒有來我因為沒有時間了啦你這個事情我請台鐵給我一個答案好不好你如果反應或者是說預防或者說萬一發生你如果去處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
9596.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
9613.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
已經逐年增加而且增加到不能忍受的一個程度了你居然被剪了九次了我現在懷疑這是不是刻意的啊海底電纜被偷剪那幾乎同時間2022年開始我們陸上陸地上的電纜也頻繁發生被剪斷尤其台鐵啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
9616.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
9631.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
你要去考量有沒有這樣一個關聯性嘛你每個案子你都把它隨便當成一個竊案嘛如果就算是這樣那你也不能讓它持續而且增加發生的次數嘛造成你台鐵的損失你也不處理你也不回復 你看你給我回復到什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
9633.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
9639.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
我們會針對這個議題現在已經跟陸警局有橫向聯防他們有發現可疑的這個竊盜集團都會跟我們做聯繫然後我們現在針對可疑的地點就剛委員提到的我們也會來研議來裝設攝影機來看來加強在監控這個部分我們會持續來來把它 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
9657.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
9657.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
我們請邱若豪議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
9690.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
9691.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
好謝謝主席主席請臺鐵馮總經理請馮總好 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
9708.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
9736.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
馮總經理好是那本席上任以來以分別在113年還有114年的預算提案中要求台鐵要針對第一線執行人員是否應該佩戴密錄器有進行研議那同時也在去年的10月23日台鐵專案報告中也針對該一體進行質詢那隨後呢本席在今年的3月24日有收到台鐵的書面回覆內容表示 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
9737.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
9764.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
本公司已針對員工意願進行調查於114年3月13日提送工時協商會議研議隨身安全配備之發放還有的管理事宜那我回敬114年第一次車班工時協商會議決議出席代表全數不同意購買本案將持續進行溝通研議那對此回覆的內容本席退辭就交總經理那請問本次的調查中 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
9765.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
9784.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
是針對哪一些類別的員工進行調查報告委員我們針對這案子先前發生了幾次員工遭到旅客的一些言語辱罵還有暴力事件所以我們也在員工的建議下我們來做一個密錄器的一個調查 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
9785.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
9806.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
那這個調查我們主要是針對直接面對旅客,包括我們的乘務人員,我們的車長還有我們這個站務人員,票閘口,會跟旅客直接接觸,我們有做一個全面的一個調查那這次納入應該就是要被調查的員工人數大概是多少人? |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
9807.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
9823.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
人數的話我1039人1039人那實際完成調查的員工人數是多少人?實際950人是1139人那實際被調查的人數是900人調查表是950是950人嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
9833.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
9853.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
900人是900人那在接受這項調查的員工當中有多少人認為應該要佩戴密錄器認為有這個需要現在有依照我們業務單位是57人57%57%那總經理您這邊知道就是認為有需要的人數是多少嗎有計算嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
9864.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
9892.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
對沒關係認為有需要的人數是510人那確實他佔了57%那認為沒有需要的是313人那佔34%那總經理那請問在這次的調查有多少員工認為應該統一供發密錄器對這認為有需要的我們在第一波的這個調查裡面那目前按照資料510人都是認為是有需要要 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
9893.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
9913.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
來做一個佩戴實際人數其實是513人那有500那其中那認為就是沒有不需要公發的人數是339人那換句話說有超過一半的員工贊成公發密錄器那加上沒有意見的的員工呢那就是有超過六成那請問總經理這樣的解讀沒有錯吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
9915.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
9932.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
對 如果按照我們先前的做針對我們要保護的對象的調查那既然有超過一半的員工他是贊成公發密錄器那加上沒有意見的那這樣子是打六成以上那為什麼在會議上所有的代表卻一致反對公發密錄器呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
9934.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
9946.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
所以就我們現在目前的了解因為3月13號有召開公使會議那相關的出席的代表老公代表也有表達就是在過程中因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
9947.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
9974.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
公發密錄器還要負保管的責任那我們有參考相關單位他們的一個密錄器的使用的相關規定那因為配發了這個密錄器我們就希望所以總經理您認為是因為要負保管的責任所以大家一致反對還有全程要做攝影他們也有提到這樣的一個沒錯 那個其中他是在第二點乘務執行中應全程開機錄影您認為這樣合理嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
9976.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
10002.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
對 在討論過程中他們也有提到他們舉例說如果上廁所也要開那我們內部是有評估就是有些比較特殊的涉及個人在執行過程中比如上廁所這種比較隱私的確實是可以來做一個關機上廁所也要開確實侵犯到隱私怎麼會有這一點說在執行的全程都應該要開呢為什麼當時沒有排除這一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
10004.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
10015.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
當初訂這樣全程是一個原則性原則性就是說希望發給這樣一個密錄器本身就非常的不合理當初我們就是在討論的時候就是為了要保護員工 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
10017.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
10044.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
那這樣子反而造成他們受到全面監控的壓力增加心理負擔那導致反抗和反感還有抗拒的心理這樣無助於安全那是否要重新來檢視這個管理規範對我們會再跟透過公使會議再跟我們的老方的相關的代表來做一個溝通討論就針對這樣的一個執勤中他們比較在意的一個事項大家去做一個討論不過因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
10046.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
10074.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
密錄器的這個發放它是屬於統一發放那我們還是希望它能夠發揮它的效果所謂它發揮效果就是說在需要的時候它的影像都能夠有記錄完整的記錄下來那才能夠確保我們公共的安全公共門派發密錄器早已行之有年我們來看到這幾個機關像在消防機關它在執行使用隨身影像記錄器的時候它有管理指導原則那財政部那它也有 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
10075.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
10092.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
他也有管理要點那包括台南市政府的社會局還有所屬機關那我們看到這三個單位的共同點都是他們授權佩戴人員他根據現場來判斷是否要開啟錄影他們尊重專業然後兼顧彈性他們並沒有要求要全程都要開機錄影 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
10094.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
10120.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
那台鐵這邊是不是要再重新討論對 報告委員就是因為每個單位每個同仁他的工作的性質是不一樣那台鐵是我們的同仁比如說我們列車廠在列車執勤的時候他是全部的執勤過程中都有可能會碰到旅客有一些這個不當的因為我們常常看到新聞畫面其實很多衝突都是由其他乘客來做側拍 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
10121.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
10144.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
那如果今天就是我們講到第一線的員工他們在執勤的時候如果遇到突發狀況他們身上至少有這個密錄器可以隨時按下然後做記錄那也是一個衝突事件的就可以拿來作為證據那為什麼台鐵一定要硬性規定要全程都必須要錄影那這樣子他們他臨時要去上廁所的時候他也不能關閉這樣是不是違反你們的規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
10145.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
10173.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
對我們可以針對這一塊就是說真正有涉及到他他的飲食不便的部分我們可以來做討論但我們還是希望說既然已經有公發密錄器希望在他執行的過程中都能夠把他相關的一些影像能夠記錄起來那也方便事後可以做這個相關一些責任的釐清那也可以作為相關單位查證的一個參考依據這樣才是保護才能夠有效的保護我們的第一線同仁 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
10174.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
10180.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
總之由於時間的關係,那請再提供我後續你們演繹的內容好,謝謝委員好,謝謝蔡其昌委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
10205.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
10211.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
謝謝主席 請五次長鐵道局楊局長然後台鐵局楓總經理楓總委員好 次長好 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
10220.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
10243.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
市長那個海線鐵道的這個雙軌高架本席知道因為楊局長在之前有到我辦公室因為我陸續都會追蹤那個進度局長也很負責任只要有新的進度就會來本席的辦公室商討報告那現在最新的進度是因為那個財務 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
10245.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
10262.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
台中市政府送到交通部來的財務規劃裡面還是希望財務要中央尋求中央的補助那看起來那個補助好像不符合中央的相關規定嘛是不是這樣所以我們又把報告退回請市政府修改 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
10264.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
10286.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
沒有問題 請局長回答一個報告委員 因為台中市政府在這個報告裡面有提到要求專案協商那按照要點 也就是我們立體化有一個這個審議的要點它有相關的這個計算的版本也就是說現在有按要點計算是A版本那台中市政府希望爭取比較優惠的條件這是B版本 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
10288.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
10306.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
我們這個在呈報過程當中因為相關的審議機關有意見所以我想我們會再來協助雙方來做溝通好 那也私下跟台中市政府講一下就是刪了中央的預算再加上財政授制劃分把那麼多的錢都給地方政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
10307.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
10333.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
所以要這個補助啊不是不行啦講起來獨立的嘛要中央大錢來補助基本上我站在海線立委的立場我不會反對嘛就分配的比例除了公視之外我們盡量來協助地方政府趕快民眾要海線的這個雙軌高架能夠早日落實本席是支持的也就是說在合理之外我們怎麼盡量來幫助地方政府把這件事情做好 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
10334.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
10360.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
但是呢你把財政授權劃分把它切割一大塊給地方政府再來又預算又要刪又要動那又要中央補助哇這個世間怎麼有這種事情所以你們跟地方政府溝通的時候也要跟盧市長講一下嘛你不能這樣你們這個黨不可以這樣幹嘛這樣幹的結果就是就是導致中央沒錢沒錢你又要發公文又要這樣寫這樣怎麼合理 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
10363.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
10391.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
所以本席很支持啦只要中央有能力我們就盡量來幫忙但是要弱化中央又要中央幫忙這個是緣木求雨啦這是做不高的事情所以我會希望那個楊局長緊盯這個公文的進度啦不要只發給台中市政府請他做修改修改之後可能又要過半年過一年才又再修改上來好不好這個我再一次提醒啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
10392.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
10415.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
第二個我想今天這個來講一下這個台鐵這個償債基金的部分我想我就不再多談因為它主要還是放在本席有提案希望在法在法裡面解決你們是希望那個辦法就是償債基金你們打算多久要把債償完市長30年嘛對不對你們辦法裡面寫30年嘛因為這個償債基金它不是一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
10423.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
10446.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
純粹性的啦 也就是它不是一支你們要藏在基金裡面你們要運為 譬如說裡面又有百年企業所以你們就一百年要去藏在兩百年 永久性的 長期性的 不是它就有一個年限嘛台鐵公司土地作價給鐵道局然後鐵道局你要把債務還清所以它有一個年限啦那本息為了 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
10447.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
10465.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
為了認為這個很慎重應該趕快來處理這個土地常在的事情所以本席把它放在法律裡面來處理那你們希望在辦法裡面來處理這個等一下主席在主持這個討論的時候我沒有堅持啦我只是強調不可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
10466.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
10493.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
沒有期限的一直下去那為什麼我擔心這個沒有不能沒有期限的一直下去這個要回過過來你看看台鐵台鐵公司你看這個大家都在講公司化本席也不反對公司化透過台鐵的公司化可不可以提升台鐵的績效讓永遠虧損的台鐵公司能夠步上軌道來賺錢至少不賺錢也不要每年虧損這麼多錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
10496.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
10507.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
那你看我們每一年的預估,你看我再把你們自己的預估表拿出來看你們的預估表當中,你看已經發生的啦你們預估113年要虧損74.9億,但實際上虧損多少?137.9億你不覺得這個預估差距有一點遠嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
10520.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
10537.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
主要是幫委員如果可以給我說明一下我當然要聽你說明因為公司化我們其實做支付金提撥23億當初也沒有在預算裡面被考量所以後來還有等一下那為什麼沒有被考量這件事情是突然之間發生沒有被考量進去 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
10538.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
10564.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
對就因為我們的預算都是113年預算在121年我們就提報112再送到院裡面所以在兩年前我們就在估的時候公司化的政策有配合有編列部分的一些費用預算費用但是大部分的費用沒有編列進去的所以也要特別說明一下那中間過程還碰到電價有兩次的調漲 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
10565.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
10591.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
那鐵路運輸業調漲幅度都很高又高達15%那再來就是我們的優退的一個機制措施也大概也投入了5到6億那所以電費然後薪資調漲所以這種種加起來事實上我們有如果同一個基準來計算的話事實上我們的虧損跟這個預算的預估的虧損是很接近的這個也跟委員做一個報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
10592.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
10617.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
對啦 總經理這個你講這些理由其實我不能說我反對啦但是如果我們以一個公司運營的角度啦一個公司我現在要編假設我要開產114的時候我就已經可以大約預估未來一年除非像黑天鵝啦就像今天川普這幾天川普關稅的事情對不對大家覺得他應該不會這麼狠結果他真的那麼狠 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
10617.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
10635.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
但他有沒有跡象 他還是有跡象嘛所以該避險的人 他在川普可能上他可能當選就是一個時機避險的時機再來第二個川普在談關稅的時候可能就是第二個時機因為他說我們在清明年假的時候他之前要宣布嘛所以有人這兩個他都避了 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
10637.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
10648.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
他就進行相關的避嫌所以你說他黑天鵝嘛是但也沒有到那麼黑啦這個天鵝也沒有那麼黑啦所以我的意思在講說一個公司啊虧損預估虧損74億實際上虧損137億 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
10654.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
10681.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
這個幅度說實在話有一點大有一點大所以電會不會上漲其實我們應該已經會知道因為電會不會上漲我們做政府自己都還不知道電會不會上漲我覺得這個說不大過去你完全腦袋裡面沒有這本來預估電會下跌的結果電竟然上漲我認為應該不會吧因為大家所有的企業都預估電會上漲 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
10683.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
10696.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
就像你要我預估明年我還是會告訴你電有可能會上漲啊因為這是我們可預期的就像川普的關稅也是一樣從他當選那一刻到他宣布4月2號宣布其實都是可預期的嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
10697.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
10721.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
所以我的意思就是說台鐵預估這個數字都讓我感到害怕啦所以你常債基金我叫你三十年金創創的原因就是這個後輩都不遵守這個都不知道要說到什麼時候但我不堅持啦就你辦法上面有我覺得就表示一個態度啦態度先出來只是我很擔心那個態度跟實際執行的結果還是有相當的距離跟落差啦好那台鐵公司114年 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
10723.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
10726.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
從虧損實際上虧損137億我們預計你們的預算是要來預計虧損8.6億預估虧損86億這個差距怎麼弄這個怎麼樣變成137億要虧損86億你們怎麼算的 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
10746.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
10772.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
報告委員就是我們在首先是在收入面收入面我們有預計我們的營運本業會增加到7億元左右那我們的附屬事業包括便當文創商品還有這個IP的授權那也會增加到10億左右今年大概是8.6億所以我們有設定這樣的一個KPI就是營收的增加那還有就是剛才講的公司化 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
10773.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
10791.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
當初第一年有投入的一些支出有減少那接著再計算我們一個人事的成本那人事在支出的費用裡面三大項是主要的一個是用人費用一個是折舊費用這兩項事實上就佔了我們整個公司的支出的八成 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
10791.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
10812.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
那我們所以在114年碰到 營收我們一定會增加我們預估大概都會增加到10%到15%之間那但是資本的支出我們折舊因為這個新車投入了將近1000億開始就要分攤折舊費用所以折舊費用也會同步的增加20到30億所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
10814.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
10838.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
所以我們整體的努力相關的一些費用能夠節流那再開源那整體的這個營收可以相較113年可以減少大概約50億這個虧損以上報告總經理這樣啦因為時間真的是太短就我要認真的每一個項目來問你譬如說營業外收入為什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
10840.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
10856.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
減少的砍了快一半這個我都很希望了解所以是不是總經理你把未來你們的預估的狀況讓我了解一下每一個每一個細項你們到底要增加要增減多少讓我了解一下那個主席時間是不是已經到了 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
10862.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
10890.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
另外那個站票跟坐票的問題我看消費者大家都很在意嘛到底我們的志強號哪一些是可站哪一些是不可站那為什麼站的人跟坐的人都在吵架都在吵架啦那到底為什麼 時間都沒時間 我很想了解這台鐵公司部跟旅客都會忘記每天都在上網 這個罵坐的人罵站的 站的人罵坐的 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
10891.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
10912.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
這個我們難道沒有想要解決嗎有有有有有有有那怎麼解決來告訴我一下好不好時間的關係我沒在跟你忙啦好好謝謝好謝謝委員好謝謝抱歉今天兩個一萬回連席啦時間有比較長抱歉好那我們現在請徐副國委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
10927.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
10934.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
謝謝主席 有請我們吳次長 請次長還有我們台鐵公司 方總經理還有董總經理 方總經理委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
10942.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
10953.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
市長總經理我想我也是我們貴公司最忠實的客戶之一我也是常常搭火車去轉高鐵來台北開會剛剛我們陳宜昌委員提的問題我就是現場的目擊者 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
10960.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
10973.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
我們都在坐火車的時候都會宣導說這個自強號不能持電子票證的人不能上車但是我坐起來之後我發現站的人一大堆我們的列車長在那裡順便順氣 視若無睹 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
10976.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
11004.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
造成很多人的位置被坐了就要被撐起來發生很多的爭執這確實是有很多的案件發生那針對這個問題我們公司怎麼做處理請董事長回答我就簡單補充一下這部分當然之前有提到這個問題那現在我們現在政策是這樣子除了PP可以用電子票證其他大概目前都還沒有那電子票證本來是可以到70公里現在我們要一直把它縮短到50公里 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
11006.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
11020.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
就是你50公里以內也可以上去超過就不行這是為了讓這個剛剛講的有座位的人不要覺得那麼擁擠服務能夠提升但是我覺得在管制裡面出現了問題啊事實上沒有拿到這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
11022.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
11041.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
我們的那個資本票正常的人趕快坐上去啊所以剛講就是現在把它收到我發現說我們自強號的原本是有講說你用電子變成用一卡通的人是不能上去的喔但我們發現還是有很多人上車但是以我過去我曾經因為這樣被罰 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
11042.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
11055.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
喔 很多啦 我就是被罰因為我實在來不及 但是我做過一個就是對號 然後就我想包含剛剛蔡委員提這個問題一定就是都有很多的乘客發現這樣的狀況我們應該要嚴加一個做稽查這部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
11060.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
11086.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
好 那我想我們這個親民聯加也要特別感謝我們台鐵公司的同仁這個不辭心 能見受崗位這個完成這個疏運的任務但是包含我們現在代理董事長跟總經理我們還是要提出這個對台鐵這個近幾年 近一年來發生多起的事故的一個檢討那包含尤其現在從去年6月開始包含我們的花蓮 潮州的基地 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
11087.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
11113.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
還甚至我們基隆的七堵吊車站發生了至少超過大概六起以上的一個事故那顯見我們台鐵公司在這個安全管理設施維護跟風險管理的部分還是有一些的螺絲鬆了這我想當署定員很多人也在問這個問題那包含我們每次委員會我們很多委員都一直在要求這個我們要這個上緊螺絲這個強化管理的部分那 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
11115.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
11140.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
董事長跟總經理 到底我們針對這些事故我們怎麼做檢討 怎麼樣做防範有沒有一個SOP的一個因應對策是喔 我這個說明一下齁我們以這個剛講花蓮這個案子齁我用這個來做一個說明齁現在目前當然是大概鐵道局他在做調查那當然我們應援處台鐵公司應援處也在配合調查那我初步從那個現場去看起來是可能 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
11142.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
11169.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
跟那個木診會有點關係木診的部分那現在這木診我們有一個所謂的軌道安全提升計畫我們現在大概針對所有戰場的木診的部分我們都在全面來開始來做把它汰換掉改為PC診這部分我們大概會在116全部都可以完成因為他為什麼這麼慢主要是因為平常他必須要調度我們沒有辦法去停止只能在他收班以後操班去做這個事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
11170.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
11192.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
所以他時間比較久但是現在是全面性的針對木診的部分全部要給他抽換為PC診這樣現在因為我們每天這個台鐵的運量還是非常的大既然我們找到原因 知道原因我想還是要趕快來做處理要不然這個這麼多人這個生命採取的安全每天都在受到威脅所以我想這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
11193.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
11219.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
因為每次聽到我們這個檢討之後那個更換的時間都很久了這次才是聽到人家膽戰心驚啦能不能加快施程這部分能不能有一個比較具體的一個施程進度因為我跟文包主要是因為他抽換PC診抽換那個木診主要是因為必須一定要收班因為不然平常他在調度所以會影響到他施程比較沒辦法快我想這部分我們再努力看看啦好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
11219.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
11244.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
好那另外我還是要替我們屏東鄉親來請命那之前我有請我們我們台里公司的同仁到我辦公室針對我們屏東縣一個運輸的問題來做討論那因為我們發現這過去上下班的時間事實上這個班次調度是沒有太大的問題但是因為有些區間跟區間塊的問題這個班次的調度出現很多的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
11246.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
11267.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
異常造成我們這個上下班的同仁上下班的上班族還有通行的學生非常的不便那尤其我們很多這個我們屏東的公務人員他們早上要趕著到台北開會要趕九點的會他們必須五點多就要出門趕六點多的高鐵有時候坐不到就不會回來了 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
11269.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
11277.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
那依我們目前來看這個台鐵跟高鐵的這個班次的一個銜接上面還是有一些的落差這部分能不能來做檢討 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
11279.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
11294.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
銜接部分因為主要是這個我想我們可以來考慮看怎麼去把它更無縫接軌因為主要是路線的部分現在利用率已經到90.43%那中間車種太多了又要7000塊7000車號都要的列車 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
11299.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
11315.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
影響實在是真的是比較複雜一點這部分我們盡量來看可不可以先見密切見解當然我知道你們就是有這樣的考量又有快車慢車然後又有調度的問題但是依我們看上下班上下學尖峰這個密度的部分能不能做有效的一個調整 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
11316.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
11335.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
好 這個部分我想我們盡量能夠在十分鐘內就剛剛講轉證的時間 利用十分鐘內看可不可以來轉證 這我們來努力好 那另外除了班次調度 我想屏東目前面臨最大的問題就是我們這個屏東縣這個單軌的問題尤其我們目前潮州到南州 還有林邊到枋寮 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
11336.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
11356.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
各地單軌運行所以台鐵的同仁跟我講說他們不是不幫忙是因為會受到調度的問題那這個說這個我們就很怕啦屏東縣真的是到目前為止還竟然還有單軌的一個軌道沒辦法通行那我之前有請楊局長這邊來做說明一下局長這部分能不能什麼時候來做改善 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
11359.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
11373.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
報告委員 這個我們放在那個南回現行改善這個案子裡面在做處理現在可能性研究已經報到行政院在做最後的這個審查計劃那這部分還是要加快進度因為我們還是有很多的這個需求能夠希望這個強化這個大眾運輸的一個能力 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
11376.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
11401.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
那最後那個次郎我想當然你現在目前待遇啦那之前在杜董事長的任內我們有跟他談到所謂一個產學合作尤其我們現在我們屏東有操作基地那我們希望未來能夠結合我們在地的高中職甚至大學做一個產學合作幫我們屏東的孩子能夠在地升學在地就業也幫我們留住人才這部分能不能再強化一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
11402.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
11423.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
這應該可以啊 這沒問題這包委員我們有在進行持續在跟那另外一個這個我還是要幫我們這個台鐵上班的屏東子弟請命現在很多還在東部還在北部服務調不回來是因為我們的招考的部分一直不順利那我們之前幾位委員一直在提我們如果現行的招聘的 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
11424.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
11439.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
的條件跟薪資不提升的話我相信這救不了人啦那第二個很多很多現在結婚的也因為這樣的因素都選擇要離開台鐵我覺得這個是很悲哀的一件事情這能不能有效的一個做調整 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
11440.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
11464.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
這我跟委員報告,剛提到的薪資的部分,其實我們現在最近在根部那邊爭取幾個預算,就包括危險假期、偏遠地區假期還有一點費所以目前都已經報了布,那目前正在密切溝通,我們期盼應該會很快可以下來如果下來以後,大概最多可以多到八千塊左右 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
11465.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
11479.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
是啦 我們也希望台鐵是一個幸福的企業那能怎麼樣留住人才 留住這個讓我們鄉親能夠願意在這個台鐵公司繼續做長遠的服務應該要有對策 也要有一個好的方案是 這我們來努力好 謝謝好 謝謝委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
11502.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
11503.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
我們現在請吳思耀委員請次長局長馮總好 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
11527.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
11554.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
好大家早安那今天難得針對這個議案我可以把我長期對於鐵道文化保存文化就是前瞻的議題就教於次長還有呃局長跟總經理喔那步步都是文化部這個是在蔡英文總統上任之後我們接駐的最新的文化資產保存的方向也就是過去大家覺得保存文化文資在利用那都是文化部的事不 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
11555.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
11570.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
步步都是文化部那下一頁那先扣合著今天的主題喔呃作為氏族裁員來做長債基金其實是四個面向這個非常清楚我也是在整理這個質詢才發現哇你台鐵公司的話你的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
11571.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
11583.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
管理的土地的比數2,004筆建物的比數136筆土地面積165萬平方公尺然後呢你承接的短期債務1,699億而且預計要30年來清償完畢這絕對是非常嚴峻的挑戰 夏業 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
11591.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
11601.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
所以我是對於今天的法案我支持幾位委員共同的方向排除國產法然後來適用文字法讓你們有比較大的彈性可以來做清償債務的作為下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
11604.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
11626.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
但是呢跟這個議題相關的就必須去討論到我們現在的國鐵公司條例修正案的第十條第二項裡頭呢你們因為不受國產法二十八條的限制未來的開發處分收益及其他相關事項交通部來定其實他新增的業務需求很多包括都更開發的活化 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
11627.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
11649.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
包括資產產權的處理也包括文化資產的協儲就是我本期非常在意的文化資產的協儲包括該保存的保存該修復的修復該活化再利用的活化再利用該公司協力的公司協力或者是中央地方要分工的都要中央地方去分工可是呢人力在哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
11650.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
11675.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
我以你們提供給立法院預算中心的報告裡頭有提到如果要滿足你們新增的這些業務至少要28位新增的人力而目前裡頭台鐵裡頭對於這28個人力的需求你們過去比較專善的也已經有的是專業土地開發的人才那對於文化資產的人才呢誰要回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
11678.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
11702.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
好 包委員這個28個人我先報告一下就目前我們爭取到9個員額是那9個裡頭都是土地專業開發人才嗎第二個有關文化資產回到剛剛前面就是委員提到的幾個面向比如說台北機場那台北機場現在就要作為所謂的鐵道博物館那這個博物館的經營其實是由文化部成立台北機場的這個鐵道博物館的籌備處正在進行當中 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
11704.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
11720.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
那是有文化部來幫忙是的也就是說未來有我今天不講台北機場就講你自己的你自己要做文化資產修復活化再利用的事實上這些作業就是文化部在做我們其實我們就是尊重文化部把所有的土地保留給台北機場來做使用 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
11721.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
11739.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
所以我不講台北機場好嗎我是說其他的部分以你好我剛剛講你有200多個土地2,004筆土地有136筆建物然後有好多好多你要管理的資產價值裡頭可能除了土地開發的人才你還會要有 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
11741.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
11766.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
必要的文資的人才嘛那28個人力需求你現在只討到9個好那另外的怎麼辦我先不要講文資了那其他怎麼辦其他我們再繼續爭取那跟委員報告就是說原來屬於我們處理的策略就是文資的部分就讓文資的專業機關來做處理我們的這個案子我們是把容積移轉出來我知道限定做保留好我來換下一個問法下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
11768.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
11790.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
我次長你看一看這是我剛擔任立委因為我長期待在文化部門我剛剛擔任立委就是2017整理的資料喔二級機關下轄的文化資產數各部會裡頭交通部是第一名你要管理的有137個以列的文資不管是古蹟歷史建築紀念建築等等而 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
11792.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
11809.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
潛力文資數還沒被指定但是他有潛力的交通部是所有部會的第四名另外有143處是潛力文資而交通部裡頭的三級機關以下就台鐵局是所有行政院三級機關要管理文化資產數最高的有84處 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
11811.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
11828.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
我要說這是2017年喔是我們文資法大修之前喔換言之現在因為我沒有再做新的一個調查可能你的文化資產署、潛力文資署包括台鐵的都是會增加很多的下頁所以說我其實是要肯定你們 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
11829.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
11853.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
市長你看齁其實在114年就是你們已經開始想到台鐵公司你們承擔的文化保存修復再利用的時代使命所以你們才會有多了編了1400萬的調研預算不是嗎對這1400萬是幹嘛你們還成立了文資科對我們成立文資科 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
11853.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
11880.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
對不對就是為了要讓鐵道文物保存活化能夠一個定期的platform有專業的人力有一個平台可以列管可以追蹤可以推展目前台鐵有99處是你們在這個計畫裡頭要去做調研的這就是我剛剛說的是對的方向只是你的人力不要一直跟我講台北機場台北機場是因為有文化部他要作為整個鐵道博物館 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
11880.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
11902.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
但是你作為交通部的鐵道局下面的台鐵管理的就這麼多你絕對需要跟上然後我很開心啊我去了解發現你們在組織面在預算面在計畫面都有進展啊只是人力面還要再加強對不對下一頁我要做一個提醒你看看同樣是國營企業台糖台電台水 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
11907.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
11926.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
也都因應了他們第一個文資法的修正需要去由管理機關或所有人來編列預算辦理保存修復管理維護等等這是公有文化資產新的文資法的修正所以呢經濟部向下的這些企業他們都看到他去管理去修繕的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
11928.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
11955.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
文資的責任他另訂了一個文化資產類別的考試然後去聘任相關的人員這就是我剛剛一直在跟您討論的你剛剛28個你現在才補9個9個裡面可能都是土地開發或是都市計劃的人才你要不要學習一下經濟部的這些作為像台電這幾年對於他的文化資產做得非常好他從修復 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
11956.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
11980.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
活化再利用他還辦很多的展覽文化路徑的小旅行跟台灣的設計產業合作讓台灣的水利發電的很多的工業遺址也都成為跟觀光可以結合這都你高通部的事啊要不然你高通部裡面你台鐵也好你鐵道局也好沒人這樣在想借口事啊所以次郎你可以綜合回覆一下嗎你們怎麼來強化這個呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
11982.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
12001.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
我想剛講的比較多的文資大概集中在台鐵的部分台鐵部分剛講我們也編列預算那也成立一個文資科我想這部分大概會後續看人力部分再盡量再補強那至於剛講鐵道局28個人那個事情啊29個人28個人那個事情啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
12002.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
12027.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
9個人已經進來 這個我再請鐵道局再演繹一下是不是這裡面是不是要有幾個跟這個文資有關係專長的部分進來我再請他們再演繹一下謝謝次長 我要肯定你們台鐵已經有預算有專責文資科的組織 有相對應的計畫你們組成了鐵路文化保存及活用小組都很好 但是就差一個人力嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
12028.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
12049.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
在下一頁所以我提供給你們經濟部下面針對文化資產的類別他擴大去招募了我認為這個有幫助我覺得台鐵是應當跟上應當學習的在下一頁另外一個除了你自己管理你自己修復就是擴大合作公司協力是一種模式跟地方政府的合作是一種模式 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].start |
12050.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].end |
12071.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].text |
這是我們前幾天思瑤從議員到立委努力了十多年終於讓新北投火車站從彰化流浪到彰化我們把它遷回北投重組這是一個文化資產異地保存的一個美好的美麗的這個土地的鐵路的故事但是呢這是因為有鍥而不捨的北投的民間社團 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].start |
12072.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].end |
12094.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].text |
文史工作者然後push台北市政府來做所以我們台鐵應當去爬梳你剛剛那個小組除了你自己管的資產之外其實可以擴大去盤點台灣的鐵道文化裡面哪些可以跟私部門合作哪些可以跟地方政府推他一把給予誘因就像我們新北投火車站前幾天109歲生日 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].start |
12096.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].end |
12122.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].text |
我們也辦理了活動不管是這個歷史建築本身的活化修復再利用乃至於我們還謝謝台鐵幫我們找了一個藍寶寶當初在行走淡水淡北線的這個鐵路一起來加入我們這個雖然規模不大但在北投也有一個新北投火車站的鐵道的小小的園區這就是跟地方政府合作所以我今天提供了人力 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].start |
12124.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].end |
12124.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].text |
謝謝主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].start |
12201.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].end |
12215.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].text |
不好意思那個許志傑跟莊惠雄對調好我們現在請莊惠雄委員謝謝莊惠雄你請一下好不好不過沒問題我是很久來你們這裡質詢你們要不要表示熱烈歡迎熱烈歡迎請那個我們交通部次長請次長那個台鐵公司總經理也有來 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].start |
12230.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].end |
12233.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].text |
反正你欠阿好 請放手 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].start |
12236.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].end |
12262.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].text |
市長還有我們總經理本席在上個月在總諮詢的時候也向我們卓院長來提出來關心整個台鐵的一個票價調漲的一個問題那我們現在交通部你們現在是6月23號廣告調漲我想這個問題我必須要在這個地方來再一步來做一個追問就是說對於整個台東跟花蓮兩個縣市的民眾來看的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].start |
12267.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].end |
12287.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].text |
往返的因為有TPAS所以你們這個影響可能也沒有那麼大但是長程的台北到台東或者說你高雄到台東這個影響就大了本席在總之選擇社也提過這個地方再說明就是說你台北到台東 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].start |
12289.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].end |
12300.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].text |
那各種的一個票價平均你的漲幅差不多20%、20%你台東到高雄段 莒光區間 你這到35%35%那還有志強號將近50%到50% |
| transcript.whisperx[424].start |
12308.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].end |
12329.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].text |
那當時呢我記得你們的士凱部長來對本席回應就是說會找台鐵來做一個研議那是不是會有有這個會員或者優惠的方案來做一個折扣當時我就具體的去做一個要求啦不要說台東啦那應該針對整個台東地區的特殊的一個票價的一個方案那我請問啦一個月過去之後你們有什麼樣的針對這個議題去研議規劃會有怎麼樣的一個方向 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].start |
12337.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].end |
12358.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].text |
我跟委員報告,針對這部分剛提到的,對花東算是路途比較長遠,除了剛講的低延低減的這樣一個制度以外,另外我們現在在考慮說,對花東的部分是不是有所謂的在離峰期間給他比較有優惠,這目前我們在研議。 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].start |
12359.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].end |
12387.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].text |
我這幾天一直在想就是說我們東部整個跨區的交通的一個優惠方案你說花東地區因為你有TPAS的方案可以有效的支持在地的一個居民但對於跨區來講的話是不是有可能去考慮推出類似比如說回鄉票東部縣市往返的一個優惠票來減少花東居民到其他縣市票價這樣的一個負擔讓東部的民眾可以更輕鬆的去 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].start |
12388.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].end |
12411.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].text |
跨區減少它的一個負擔這是第一個那第二個就是說你提高跨區的優惠的一個折扣的一個比率花東到台北台中高雄主要城市的一個票價的一個漲幅給這一些長途旅行的民眾有更多的一個折扣漲價帶來的全部都是壓力的那第三個就是說譬如說你週末 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].start |
12412.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].end |
12434.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].text |
跟假日的一個通行的優惠的一個政策那比如說我們針對東部民眾週日或者假日的旅遊的一個需求你推出週末跟假日的一個通行優惠的一個這些票種那這個不僅可以促進整個國內的一個旅遊也可以幫助民眾在假期出行的時候減輕票價的一個壓力這個部分是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].start |
12435.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].end |
12437.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].text |
次長 剛才你們補充說還要討論呢我現在跟你們講這個已經夠具體了不曉得你們的考慮是怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].start |
12445.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].end |
12466.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].text |
優惠的部分我剛看了幾個建議當然委員的建議都非常的具體而且非常的好不過可能還是考慮到所謂的整體的一個衡平原則這部分我想那我們再研議好不好剛提到我們當然會針對於發動的部分盡量想看看有沒有什麼方式可以去做出一些折扣出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].start |
12467.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].end |
12486.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].text |
因為大家的衣衫就算公告,這個衝擊都是難免的反應成本這個都很合理啦,一般民眾其實也不會跟你說這個是太跳通但問題是,你看我剛提到的,不管到高雄,我賣50%的,他企業賣50%的,他很可怕的一個丈夫啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].start |
12489.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].end |
12502.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].text |
也就是說過去當然就是為了減輕民眾的負擔你們把整個成本給吸收了那你現在就合理的反應票價沒有人會說這不對但問題是你這個條幅像比如說高雄到台東的到花東的或者說你從台北 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].start |
12509.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].end |
12529.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].text |
北部到花東的這個漲幅確實是很大所以本席就非常具體的提出這三樣就是說你整個東部跨區的優惠的一個方案還有提高跨區的優惠折扣的一個比率跟週末跟假日通行的優惠的一個政策我相信這個方向來看的話是 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].start |
12530.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].end |
12542.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].text |
交通部這個地方啊 你們擇無旁貸啊你不一定也跟我說會的 你們會討論的我覺得很顯然看起來你們現在還沒有針對這個部分有很具體的措施要出來你們現在只想說六月起什麼要調 要調但是這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].start |
12544.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].end |
12559.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].text |
本來你部長是用折扣的方式來處理嘛對我們現在目前還是朝花東的部分用所謂折扣的方式彈性票價的方式來進行處理啦這個還是我們的方向要這樣去做啦那如果跟委員報告我們現在這個條長其實已經 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].start |
12562.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].end |
12582.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].text |
歸於到社會的一個接受程度我們的客運的部分它的報酬率只有0.36%而已就是幾乎等於0也就是說沒賺錢啦我用多少我就收多少一般之前那個立法案給我們的公司它其實是合理報酬率3到5% |
| transcript.whisperx[437].start |
12584.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].end |
12606.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].text |
我們也沒用到3%我們連下限都沒有用到就是用幾乎用零的方式來做就是考慮到說不要一次漲幅不要那麼大這其實對我們的成本對台鐵公司現在成立公司他的壓力真的也是非常的大這個我當然都了解啦你像譬如說從我們那個佳東訪寮有時候我看你們的那個試驗列車 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].start |
12609.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].end |
12621.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].text |
那一個車裡面如果坐了沒幾個人那車也一定會遼及啊但問題是整個鐵路的一個運輸啊因為我們要肩負社會責任這一定要啦那當然社會責任甚至於單剛起整條鐵路就不是說啊就遼及之後就可以像經營企業那樣修修的不可能啊那也有牽扯到國安的一個問題啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].start |
12631.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].end |
12654.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].text |
那但是這個票價的一個調漲那這一次來看的話有一些區段對東部來講的話因為它的地形本來我們在建置整個鐵路啊你像比如說你說雙軌啊還有你蘭桂龜線那個部分啊怎麼樣去你們現在連那個方案連合訂都還沒合訂啊那長期以來對東部來講的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].start |
12656.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].end |
12679.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].text |
交通上對他們來講的話就不太公平啦就不太公平啦所以你整個票價在調漲的時候也必須要有特殊的去做差別待遇是合理的啦如果說你在西部縣市你全部說哪一個縣市要求跟你說哪一個地方要折扣這又沒道理嘛你沒有理由去做差別待遇嘛但是你整個鐵路建設整個交通建設東部跟西部確實因為地形上 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].start |
12679.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].end |
12704.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].text |
有存在那麼大的一個差異性你這個時候來做差別待遇反而你沒有去做才是不合理啊所以上次在總質詢因為部長也去講說希望用折扣的一個方式那我在此更今天更具體的提出這三樣的一個方式希望我們交通部這邊來進一步做一個思考我相信我們政策你勢必到最後也會往這方面去做思考啦因為你一個調整要到50%有時候真的是那些人動不動啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].start |
12707.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].end |
12726.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].text |
而且你看牽扯到整個觀光,人一定要記錄嘛,你交通成本你也要檢查,大家一定覺得我負擔太大,那你到最後又要來救這個觀光,那你台鐵全部都是交通不可以帶,那這個部分應該是做整體的一個考量,也降低 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].start |
12728.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].end |
12743.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].text |
這樣的一個調漲的這麼大的一個幅度對老百姓這樣的一個交通成本的一個負擔我認為是非常可行的啦這個趕快去做一個思考來做出對社會做一個回應好不好好市長謝謝 榮譽謝謝謝謝委員復軌不是復軌不是可以帶嗎 等一下先存 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].start |
12755.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].end |
12759.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].text |
好,OK,好,這樣OK,好,那現在那個鄭天才委員,質詢。 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].start |
12791.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].end |
12817.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].text |
請次長財政部國產署的國產署委員好好 次長好這個今天有這個國營台灣鐵路股份有限公司設置條例的修正條文那個我先請教這個財政部 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].start |
12820.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].end |
12845.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].text |
財政部國財長署的陳組長 請教你線型的條文 你看一下這個線型的條文線型條文特別提到這個政府因移撥台灣鐵路管理局及所屬機構金管之氏族資產由交通部設立基金處理員機構寄存之短期債務 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].start |
12847.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].end |
12857.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].text |
我要請教的是說以現行的條文這個部分這個原來因為台鐵原來所管理的 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].start |
12858.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].end |
12880.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].text |
有一個是他們自己的財產他們架構進來的有的是原來是國有的土地有的是原來省有的土地由他們來管理的部分對於原來省有或是國有的土地由台鐵管理然後經過公司化之後有了這個條文 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].start |
12882.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].end |
12901.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].text |
那如果政府行政機關需要蓋公共設施需要撥用的時候他還可以依撥用的程序嗎政府移到這個基金的財產的話如果要撥用的話就必須要用有償撥用的方式 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].start |
12902.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].end |
12925.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].text |
好 這個部分所以是需要去檢討的因為這個本來就不是台鐵的財產所以這個部分作為一個國產署這個本來就是公務尤其是針對原住民而言很重要的就是會有本來符合原基法20條增化邊保留地的 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].start |
12926.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].end |
12952.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].text |
這個部分希望能夠繼續來進行這個部分那我了解你的意思請回座好時間的關係這個行政院114年度的施政方針特別提到要優化環島鐵路網優化東部公路交通網這樣的一個議題這我上次也有提出來這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].start |
12956.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].end |
12962.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].text |
台鐵宜花東地區鐵路設施安全改善計畫總共這個計畫的經費是64.1億元這是因為因應0403震災台鐵北回線災禍搶修的復建那這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].start |
12980.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].end |
12992.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].text |
已經送到交通部了這個你們送到行政院了嗎還沒有他這個是在應該是3月的時候送過來那現在交通部目前在審議審議沒問題我們盡快會往行政院來送 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].start |
12995.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].end |
13013.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].text |
這個部分盡快,因為很急,院長也去過,部長也去了很多次,最起碼兩次以上所以這個部分趕快撐合,才能夠符合行政院的施政方針這是第一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].start |
13015.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].end |
13031.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].text |
第二個 剛才謝謝這個莊惠雄委員一再的關心這個台鐵花東票價優惠不應該調漲這個部分我自己也質詢過這個但是很遺憾的在114年2月5號台鐵公告票價將調漲平均調伍約26.8% |
| transcript.whisperx[456].start |
13043.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].end |
13072.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].text |
當初是這樣那我跟趙樂熊一樣委員一樣花蓮台東要盡量最好不要調漲但是你們今天公告了是今天公告的嗎還是什麼時候公告的還沒有公告還沒有公告還沒有公告的話就務必要一定要讓台東花蓮台東花蓮 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].start |
13073.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].end |
13099.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].text |
對台鐵過去的台鐵是賺錢的你們回去查一下台鐵過去因為在西部西部縣因為有高鐵的競爭各方面的競爭所以都虧錢的是靠過去是靠花蓮台東都是賺錢的所以要回饋到 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].start |
13100.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].end |
13106.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].text |
現在不要去調帳如果按照你們這個就一個一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].start |
13107.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].end |
13119.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].text |
像按照你們現在原來的這是原來的嘛希望不要照這個像台北到花蓮本來是440的自強號現在要變成583到台東要變成935自強號所以這個部分要請交通部這邊務必 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].start |
13133.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].end |
13156.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].text |
如果你們已經送到行政院了嗎?已經核准了我剛問你,你說還沒有?我們還沒公告,但是行政院已經核准了今天的新聞有寫6月23啊對,那是要我們要實施那已經核定了,還有什麼方式?我跟委員報告,當然委員剛剛提到這個是應該這麼講,我們當時在擬定這個票價的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].start |
13161.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].end |
13190.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].text |
客運的部分過去立法院給我們的一個合理的報酬率是3%到5%我們現在因為考慮到這個社會各界的一些接受程度我們的報酬剩下0.36左右0.36%喔也就接近一個你是用全台灣來去算的啦對 全部去算你要聽進去我剛剛的建議就是說因為花蓮 台東過去都替台鐵賺錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].start |
13191.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].end |
13216.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].text |
好不好這個還可以改啊因為你6月23號才要正式啊不像剛剛這樣的話就變成我又是虧本了啦不會不會不會因為我現在利潤是已經擔心了就是虧本還不是政府補貼還不是人們的負擔所以他不會補貼已經調完以後他不會補貼了這個部分好好地把它列入你們的一個執行好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].start |
13235.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].end |
13244.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].text |
來 接下來請許智傑委員諮詢謝謝主席 我們請次長跟馮總有請次長 董事長道維好次長好 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].start |
13259.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].end |
13276.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].text |
這個杜董事長突然辭職我們也覺得有一點意外啦但是很多事情我想馮總經理應該還是一直都在嘛所以應該要多了解而且就是次長現在站待 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].start |
13278.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].end |
13305.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].text |
其實台鐵真的我想一想事情真的很多啦公司化以後那舊有的成科新有的挑戰那不管是以前的事故虧損與否等等的這個要改革的東西太多那當然剛剛也很多人我也問到的就是有一些問題的包括這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].start |
13306.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].end |
13327.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].text |
你們的那個燈光啦軌道啦等等的其實我以前也曾經問過軌檢車它的軌道檢查的問題啦就是日本也因為這個軌距的問題產生事故等等的這問題很多所以我是希望說既然已經公司化可能從頭到尾 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].start |
13329.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].end |
13339.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].text |
每一個單位部門你們都要做一個徹底的檢討啦一件一件 因為這太多件說實話還是說不完 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].start |
13342.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].end |
13367.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].text |
舊交通幫恐怕還有一些陳柯在裡面我們不敢說到底是哪個單位很明確但是隱約還是有一些影子沒有完全去除掉雖然主管全部都換了但是有一些小鬼難產的部分我是覺得你們應該徹底做一個新的風氣跟檢討 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].start |
13369.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].end |
13384.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].text |
為了要怎麼樣帶台鐵走向公民政大然後營運能夠很好事故沒有發生等等的這樣一個康莊大道我想這個很辛苦 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].start |
13385.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].end |
13400.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].text |
也不是那麼簡單但是需要用一個不一樣的心態重新去看待每一個部門跟單位這個是希望說語重心長是希望說次長代理董事長那馮總也一直都在 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].start |
13401.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].end |
13430.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].text |
比如剛剛講有人問到說那個師友問到那個文化保存的事事實上我也質詢過很多次台鐵要轉型其實就是六都風法跟鐵道祕境各個不同的點它有它的祕境它有它的文資這個你們如果做一個思考那可能再加上附近的那個你們的宿舍改民宿等等的類似這一種不一樣的經營模態 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].start |
13431.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].end |
13451.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].text |
我覺得其實它是很有機會的當然這也是浩大工程所有的暫停你要做一個縮刻要把它彙整變成一個好的店這個希望說我們的台鐵可以再多一點這方面的思考去把它彙整的更好 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].start |
13453.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].end |
13464.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].text |
那第二個就是我們的那個之前杜董事長答應的我不知道馮總經理跟吳次長這邊是不是延續下去我們的那個百慕達三角洲跟那個台積電站 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].start |
13466.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].end |
13490.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].text |
這之前都講過了 現在就是萬一你們當時有多人 我想問一下這是不是一樣跟委員報告 這部分我們還是目前還是這樣子那當然現在目前剛好市政府正在進行那個那個肯定性啦那這中間剛剛提到那個台積電站還是叫男子的營區站都沒有關係我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].start |
13494.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].end |
13517.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].text |
當時在開會的時候有特別提醒高雄市政府就是說這兩個站你必須要考慮一下它的佔據因為如果太近的話對整個的營運是不好的第二個它一定要代幣的功能如果沒有代幣功能增設這個以後那我就更慘了我分析給你參考你們就評估一下嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].start |
13518.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].end |
13533.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].text |
今天如果是沒有的話就全部都是用那旁邊那個紅色的是捷運紅線嘛嗯是啊剛好在台鐵南直站跟台鐵新左營站都在那嘛對啊所以我出出一路都是要對這兩站的 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].start |
13535.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].end |
13548.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].text |
很多人流嘛那當然就是說如果有這個男子園區站他的好處是這樣就是說他要紓解這個捷運的人流啦你包括對台南車頭對我們鳳山車頭對屏東車頭他就是坐台鐵的 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].start |
13554.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].end |
13569.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].text |
他如果要去台積電上班剛好20多塊就好了不用再去那個兩個捷運站那邊打捷不然你再去新左營站或是去台鐵男子站可以玩捷運是不是那些都會打架 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].start |
13571.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].end |
13585.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].text |
所以這個是一個蠻不錯的想法啦我是希望說最終來這一定是很多人在這裡所以這個我是大力的呼籲我們務必要完成啦希望說我們可以真的仔細去評估 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].start |
13587.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].end |
13604.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].text |
我跟委員報告這部分我想我們會全力支持至於如果涉戰之後我還是希望未來不管是Telelogy在審核或是高雄市在提的時候那個代幣功能一定要放進去不然的話真的會運產那個代幣功能一定要放進去 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].start |
13605.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].end |
13631.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].text |
專業的高威力 帶兵功能放進去以後就是它佔地要稍微寬一點 多些的古道所以我就說專業的交給你們我管的就是怎麼樣去紓解人潮怎麼樣是讓那個各地去上班方便這兩個是我們地方人民的需求嘛專業的就拜託你們多用一點心把它規劃應該的好 還有一項 不好意思 主席我再站一分鐘就好 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].start |
13632.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].end |
13637.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].text |
那個空中奉承我們的吳董事長一直跟他答應說這個標籤就沒問題結果呢 又過流標 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].start |
13643.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].end |
13671.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].text |
現在我們是重新上網2月7號我們就再重新公告啦是那大概6月26號會這個結旨收件啦我們期盤應該看是不是會這段時間4月1號結旨收件沒人遞件就是6票啊不是還沒到啊6月276月26好延到6月20對6月26才到件那結旨收件好那那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].start |
13672.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].end |
13693.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].text |
這個應該是總經理了解比較多啦還有機會嗎應該有啦我們把那個履約年期也拉長然後固定權利金也下降然後稅賦也給他做優惠所以這次公開說明會蠻多廠商來參與我只有一個需求就是可以成功嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].start |
13694.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].end |
13713.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].text |
那至於說技術問題或者是說要怎麼樣跟你的潛在廠商在合理合法的原則下如何去鼓勵他們來來這邊把它招標完成將來可以正式營運這是我們鳳山人的期盼嘛所以應該沒問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].start |
13716.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].end |
13736.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].text |
我們全力以赴啦因為已經三次私底下也都跟很多廠商有交換過意見因為前面一次兩次杜董都跟我說全力以赴第三次跟我說應該沒有問題了那我現在想說哇他突然走了那我想說這個重酌大任應該放在總經理身上應該沒有問題吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].start |
13738.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].end |
13742.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].text |
我們會全力來達成我們越保守走越遠一定會走到 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].start |
13750.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].end |
13769.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].text |
越保守走越遠但是不一定很保守就走不到啦所以還是有一些我覺得你多花一點心沒問題啦就是一定要去因為你那個就是條件問題嘛所以我就不相信辦不到這應該是辦得到的啦好不好把它完成啦好不好好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].start |
13770.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].end |
13772.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].text |
好 謝謝許志傑委員我的月保守左葉園開創 月保守左葉園接下來請審發會委員質詢審發會委員 審發會MOD來 接下來何新淳委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].start |
13796.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].end |
13806.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].text |
謝謝代理召委謝謝我們許智傑召委我們是不是請五次還有鐵道局楊局長請次長楊局長 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].start |
13810.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].end |
13833.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].text |
我第一個當然要 你好 你好這個要關心台中啊所以楊局長一定知道我要問什麼這個我們台鐵這個台中鐵路高架化的最後一里路就是台鐵的大清到烏日段那我們上個會期也有到現場去考察過那請問一下現在進度如何 次長知道嗎還是局長回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].start |
13836.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].end |
13856.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].text |
包委員因為市政府有把修正的報告送上來因為對於經費分攤的方式市政府始終有一些堅持希望能夠做所謂的專案協商現在我們相關的審議機關是認為說就只有一個版本來報行政院所以我們還在跟市政府在做溝通當中 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].start |
13857.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].end |
13885.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].text |
局長我希望盡快啦齁這個溝通要有效率啦那至於呢台中市政府地方政府有他自己的意見我們也尊重那如果迫不得已必須要多案併成我也建議次長這個多案併成也是一個方式讓行政院來做政策決定因為我必須要說這個為什麼之所以重要台中鐵路高加化最後的這一段 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].start |
13886.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].end |
13896.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].text |
沒有高價化他阻礙了地方的發展第二個我也必須再提醒高鐵周遭的一個交通問題是未來未來 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].start |
13898.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].end |
13923.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].text |
可能會是最擁捨也是我們中央地方要共同去面對的一個問題那我為什麼一直希望這個可以趕快加速的核定是因為高鐵特區未來那個shopping mall在成立了之後他現在已經在塞車兩年後shopping mall最大的這個亞洲最大的shopping mall成立之後開幕之後一定會更加的讓我們的整個交通癱瘓 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].start |
13925.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].end |
13946.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].text |
那如果在台中的這個大慶到烏日這一段的高架化可以趕快的核定趕快的來動工那會有助於高鐵周遭的一個交通的一個瓶頸可以有其他的替代方案跟分流的路段這個很重要所以你現在不做你越慢核定那 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].start |
13946.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].end |
13974.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].text |
越會影響到未來高鐵周遭的一個交通的問題所以市長局長剛剛是說台中市政府有送上來那我們現在又退回去請他們再研議啦那我也希望盡速的是不是呢我們主動的去push台中市政府趕快再修正把方案送上來那如果我們需要行政院我也會去拜託左院長我們希望盡速的來做相關的決定好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].start |
13975.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].end |
14001.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].text |
這部分我們來努力那確實委員看到問題點剛聽到蝦皮莫確實是過去委員一直在關心這一塊真的是沒有錯等他開幕以後那邊可能是交通上會很大現在要趕快想對策啊因為你現在不想的話未來兩年我說的這個高價化我上次問過局長如果一旦拍板定案核定這個新工的對不起新建的時間要差不多要七八年 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].start |
14002.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].end |
14019.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].text |
如果說我們現在沒有辦法去想到這個兩年後可能會碰到的大塞車這個又不定案又一直拖拖拖拖我相信這個整個對民眾的生活還有那附近的交通的一個擁捨程度甚至會直接影響到高鐵 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].start |
14020.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].end |
14043.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].text |
我這個是我必須要提醒這個是中央地方大家一起要去努力面對跟解決的好不好拜託第二件事情同樣的也是要解決台中的交通楊局長上次有去參與考察就是台中捷運的藍線跟橘線會在台中現在的車站那邊會有一個交會的一個點那時候呢我們有考察了那一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].start |
14044.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].end |
14069.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].text |
有建議一個新的方案就是希望能夠在這個轉弦的部分可以做一個好的一個討論跟方向那時候我記得楊局長也有提到還有當時候的部長有提到我們有成立一個台中市政府台鐵跟鐵道局三方的一個橫向的一個溝通小組那現在這個溝通的進度如何針對這個案子局長 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].start |
14072.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].end |
14089.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].text |
跟委員報告這個我們在去年11月就邀了台中市政府交通局跟台鐵公司一起來討論那因為這個局限的部分呢原來是在比較上面O16那現在的方案應該就是會在靠近火車站跟南線的位置增加一個車站 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].start |
14090.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].end |
14114.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].text |
就增加一站嘛對不對讓這個橘線跟藍線的轉乘的距離能夠縮短嘛這樣才能夠方便轉乘的這些乘客不管是交通的便利性或舒適性或者是我們未來有一些國際觀光客要來台中台中一定要建立一個友善的交通環境嘛那國外觀光客才會來嘛對不對是的 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].start |
14115.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].end |
14144.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].text |
所以現在有確定了嗎現在這個施政部已經把它修正在報告裡面但是報告裡面是一個構想的概念就是他認為說細部的部分要等到中規才能夠做後續的處理可是原則上就是在他現在的規劃裡面已經有納進去我們當時候考察的建議了嘛對不對好那未來我希望能夠盡速的這個來做決定然後這個橫向的一個聯繫小組的會議也要持續的來進行最重要的是也要讓 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].start |
14145.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].end |
14155.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].text |
台鐵知道為什麼呢因為呢如果我們要新設一站的話那可能要運用到的跟台鐵的車站周遭的整體開發是有關係的 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].start |
14158.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].end |
14177.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].text |
這個我跟委員報告,這個上次委員提過這樣的問題,這部分我已經台鐵公司在我們今年的二月、一月還是二月的時候我們有招商那情況非常的好,就很熱烈,我們也特別講說這邊未來可能就是隧道會經過 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].start |
14178.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].end |
14192.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].text |
但是那確確的位置還沒有還沒有定案因為他現在只是一個構想慢慢的會越來越明朗化我們未來會把這個放到我們的照片文件去跟城商講說會有這樣一個情況因為剛剛講這邊是增設一個其實對台鐵的開發我覺得是 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].start |
14200.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].end |
14217.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].text |
是好的是有助力的是的是有利的是好的那對整體的周遭的不管是交通環境也好或者是友善環境也好或者是工商服務業的發展也好經濟的地方經濟的發展也好都是好事那對台鐵來講更是好事 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].start |
14218.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].end |
14234.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].text |
對台鐵的台中車站的營運更是一大利多所以我建議一定要密切的地方政府台鐵跟鐵道局我們中央一定要密切的溝通合作好不好最後會議照委員的要求我們朝這方向來走好拜託是 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].start |
14234.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].end |
14257.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].text |
拜託拜託最後今天我們在談的是文資我只有一個建議因為我們到目前為止看到台鐵的文資的建物的活化你們呢是給各個管理單位那我建議我們總公司這邊我們在上位應該針對台鐵的文資建物這些文資空間有一個整體的盤點跟思考方向 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].start |
14258.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].end |
14285.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].text |
而且要納入專業的團隊進來就是專業的不管是在地的文史工作者也好或者是專業的文資的團隊也好或是文資的學者專家也好必須在我們台鐵的總公司裡面要有這樣子的一個專業的智囊團針對我們99處或者是越來越多的文資空間跟建築物的活化利用要有一個整體的策略思考跟方向 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].start |
14286.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].end |
14306.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].text |
才不會現在是各個管理單位各行其事啊各行其事有的是委外有的是招標有的是怎樣那我覺得這個會讓我們地方也會擔心譬如說像豐原豐原我們上次去考察我們竟然在豐原車站的一個文資空間裡面現在被當作停車場使用 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].start |
14309.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].end |
14325.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].text |
我覺得這是一個對我們來講是很不可思議的一件事情但是我可以理解我們這個管理單位是為了要活化所以他就只能想出這個活化的方式為什麼他沒有人幫他想其他的方式啊那在我們總公司這邊 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].start |
14327.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].end |
14348.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].text |
總經理應該要納入相關的這樣子的一個專業的文資的學者專家也好或者是怎麼樣的一個團隊這個當然由你們自己去決定但是整體的一個考量跟整體的策略方向總公司這邊必須要有專業的人來幫助各個管理單位嘛好不好這是我的建議啦 次長你覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].start |
14350.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].end |
14374.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].text |
可以嗎我覺得很合理而且應該這樣做才對應該要這樣子做那你覺得需要多久的時間去把這個整個機制建立起來我現在跟委員報告他現在其實台鐵現在目前也有成立所謂的文字科文字科的部分當然他跟那個自然開發處兩個會去做結合那至於剛剛講的裡面可能也許現在的人力我覺得稍嫌不足這個人力啦我們再去 對 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].start |
14375.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].end |
14403.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].text |
人力不足還有加上對於文資的概念跟運用活化的一個專業度還不夠是我們盡量引進一個外界的那樣的比較創意的進來這個我想我們會努力來做那你總共是有一個整體的一個策略方向給各個管理單位作為參考或是指引嘛不要讓他們現在個性歧視我再講一次我們的文資空間竟然活化成停車場這個我實在是大家都覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].start |
14405.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].end |
14413.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].text |
希望啦在他約到了之後我們可以用重新的思考方式來做文資的火化利用好不好好謝謝好謝謝委員好謝謝我們請油耗委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].start |
14434.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].end |
14437.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].text |
謝謝老闆主席有請次長請次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].start |
14446.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].end |
14468.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].text |
委員好市長好那當然還是要肯定市長包括台鐵對南投都做很多的協助那在這裡還是想要先救救一下實事體那像現在來講我們看到股市綠油油今天大家一副就是都是因為受到這個貿易的影響還愁雲慘霧那本期在 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].start |
14469.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].end |
14491.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].text |
禮拜六的時候也看這個行政院這塊的記者會那這個880億那出席的單位跟討論的單位沒有交通部但是其實在交通部底下相關所管的許多的影響的這些汽車零組件相關這些運輸產業不管是進口或出口其實都會大受影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].start |
14491.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].end |
14514.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].text |
那我想就教一下市長那為什麼在行政院的881裡面他在討論的過程中沒有就是邀請到交通部那以及那這些相關的這些產業尤其是汽車產業或是交通部底下的相關的這些產業受到的衝擊以及包括協助的方案為何 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].start |
14515.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].end |
14538.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].text |
我想跟委員報告這次剛講因為關稅的問題嘛主要大概是出口的部分出口的部分主要是在經濟部因為交通部裡面譬如說剛講汽車那部分其實是經濟部在主導的這我知道 是不屬於交通部這我知道 是這我知道所以因為關稅問題所以那天討論的時候大概就找經濟部沒有找交通部是因為這個原因 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].start |
14539.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].end |
14565.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].text |
所以說交通部底下的相關的汽車或是相關的運輸的產業通通都不會受到這些貿易或關稅或進出口的影響因為剛剛講了他對外出口是由經濟部在幹我知道是經濟部為了但是問題是在討論跟邀集部會在跨部會討論的時候是通通都把交通部就沒有邀集來討論嗎還是有沒有任何一個單位就是或同仁是有參加行政院的一個會議應該有嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].start |
14568.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].end |
14580.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].text |
跟委員報告一下那個連假期間有關於行政院的會議我們是沒有參加剛剛委員所提到就是說裡面可能會聽得到如果說因而產生這個貿易這個有相關這個調整的部分的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].start |
14584.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].end |
14587.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].text |
所以本席在這裡還是要建議行政院在討論這樣子的一個881的方案不能急就章 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].start |
14599.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].end |
14627.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].text |
交通部的話貴為國家那麼重要的一個部會那在整個的方案的討論交通部沒有任何的同仁或是官員受邀參與討論那我坦白講當然說組的單位是經濟部這個大家都清楚那可是實際上影響的產業跟層面甚至包括後面帶動的整個包括物價膨脹通膨的問題所以說這個部分我會建議交通部應該還是要主動跟行政院反映那這個應該是要 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].start |
14629.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].end |
14644.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].text |
相關這個貿易的關稅站的這一個部分如何來保護台灣的產業而且把傷害衝擊降到最低我覺得交通部應該也要有官員在裡面列席跟參與討論那同樣的我們看到了像現在來講6月23號台鐵的票價要漲 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].start |
14647.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].end |
14669.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].text |
那同樣我們看到這個關稅的這個後面的效應通膨就是一定的啦那是不是有可能是在這個高鐵的部分那交通部也可以秉持著照顧民眾苦民所苦的情況還在他們在下一次高鐵的董事會會討論的時候也表達這個高鐵不要漲價的一個大家的意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].start |
14671.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].end |
14688.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].text |
各位報告高鐵票價的部分目前我們是還沒有接受到說要漲價的這樣的一個請求未來如果他有提出來我想我們會站在剛提到也有包括一些社會責任的問題必須要去考量我想這部分應該 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].start |
14689.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].end |
14705.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].text |
可以來反映嗎對 這個我們可以來想辦法來處理好 那因為時間有限那再來吉吉之縣原定在114年底南投縣的吉吉之縣預計要在115年的7月要完工通車那想要救救一下次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].start |
14706.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].end |
14729.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].text |
那在過去來講有提到說在今年年底的話是可以趕工到今年年底的這個進度那是否可行本來到今年年底的趕工的部分還是可以好那謝謝那明年的七月我想這個我們也會掌握那希望是能夠在今年年底通車那因為那時候有提到這個那我想說再次做對我們今年年底是通車到積極 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].start |
14732.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].end |
14759.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].text |
因為那時候原本有提到今年的年中有機會就是通車到幾級那年底的話有機會全線通車那我在想其實那時候是包括在之前三個月的時候討論到是確實有這個訊息所以還是想要拜託董事長這邊是不是可以加快的來去進行這個好這個我們來努力好那再接著的話就是文化資產的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].start |
14760.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].end |
14781.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].text |
那在目前在集集火車站有沒有機會放置這個老舊的火車頭那我在想其實在鐵道文化那在我們這個集集支線其實確實是需要很多的這個文化資產甚至是文化的故事還來帶動這個鐵道文化集集支線讓更多的民眾成為觀光誘因那在目前來講的話是 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].start |
14782.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].end |
14805.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].text |
以這個養護的方式介於交通部日管處12輛各式的老車還放置在小學堂跟鐵道車程鐵道文化園區那目前來講是在這裡還是要請董事長讓我們來積極來發揚鐵道文化跟文化資產的這個帶動觀光效益的一個方式那這個12個火車頭將來也希望能夠再積極支線不管是龍泉 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].start |
14806.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].end |
14828.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].text |
還集集包括水里車程甚至濁水的部分那與其在這邊放置來來代管那不如的話就讓他呈現還甚至有一些鐵道的故事館把老照片來取出來還到時候來去帶動觀光在這個通車之前那是否可行我想這個跟委員報告剛提到這些帶動觀光的用文化帶動我想這個也是我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].start |
14831.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].end |
14860.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].text |
台鐵公司努力的目標啦剛提到如果說地方還有什麼哪個地方有需求的時候可以提出來我們再討論看看他的可行性我想我這個我們會全力來促成好那如果到時候請這個公司內部大家都研議一下再把這個規劃方案再跟本席是好謝謝好謝謝謝謝委員好謝謝游委員那接下來鍾嘉賓鍾嘉賓鍾嘉賓委員不在王美惠委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].start |
14867.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].end |
14871.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].text |
主席南鄉鎮市市長請鎮市好鎮市好鎮市我利用這個時間跟你研討一個嘉義市火車站那個車頭的問題你對嘉義市的火車站你有印象嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].start |
14895.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].end |
14902.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].text |
我有印象有印象嗎?今天我們去本縣的辦公室說我們鐵路高架開車站要怎麼做可以如何好在這裡面我第一點就是要先給我們政治探討一下方便我們所有的開車的觀光客也好 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].start |
14920.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].end |
14926.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].text |
我們去外鄉 前陣子回來 會怕你死死的坐著飛車回來 把日子也好 我覺得有在我們的飛車站有很多不方便的你知道我們台北現在大家都會坐高鐵的嘛因為高鐵的就是很方便嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].start |
14943.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].end |
14962.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].text |
在這兩邊的時候,我們如果說大人又沒方便我們台北都坐高鐵到泰坡,坐到VRT到嘉義或坐客輪車但是坐到VRT到嘉義的時候,有很多站的,很多站的可以停因為在嘉義火車站停的時候,一定要在澳車站 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].start |
14973.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].end |
14979.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].text |
在澳車頭停的時候 你叫阿公阿嬤也好 觀光客也好有澳車頭要過來 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].start |
14984.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].end |
14994.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].text |
我們的前瞻 我知道你們用心有做一個電腿有做一個電腿訓練 訓練當中 我覺得很不方便的就是你有後車頭坐起來 你會找那個電腿嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].start |
15003.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].end |
15014.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].text |
電腿車要回去的時候,還要一直走,走到我們城鎮再坐電腿坐下去但是坐下去,我今天是要跟你說坐下去的時候,我們應該給坐車的人方便應該我們是可以坐下去之後,可以出站 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].start |
15026.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].end |
15049.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].text |
但是我們的幾位是坐下去之後還要走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走走 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].start |
15050.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].end |
15061.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].text |
真是 我這樣說你有沒有聽到我這個形容這個問題我只要說你車尾踢到後座 要去那裡請站很不方便的嘛 對不對不是你走過來 你要走來請站請站的電梯走下來的時候一般是走下來 我們就可以出站了嘛但是他不行他你坐下來 你要走還要走 走 走 走還要走 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].start |
15081.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].end |
15095.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].text |
一大早才可以出站本身是要跟你說 我們可以在電腿的旁邊設一個出站因為你設一個出站 跟他的卡兩次而已嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].start |
15096.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].end |
15102.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].text |
我沒有要求說你設在那裡讓人進站的時候可能會造成你們的不便嘛要不然要出站就是他卡住了他又可以出去啦所以我認為說 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].start |
15112.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].end |
15115.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].text |
在這段時間有很多鄉親去我們服務處聽證我把這個地方找去看,真的有這個需要我要拜託政府,我們家裡的體育高架,漸漸一直完成 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].start |
15131.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].end |
15137.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].text |
在這個過程當中,我們會說一百十五年的集體會,就可以來完成那一選我也希望政治所謂的單位,要多多關心嘉義市未來的發展,不能再拖延,因為嘉義市的鐵路高架,包括現在做得好 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].start |
15154.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].end |
15158.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].text |
都會整個應用到白社會生活的環境因為這裡面有共和國也好很多我們未來 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].start |
15166.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].end |
15174.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].text |
我們像家用路橋也要拆掉因為如果萬一未來要拆掉營用的時程也很大發展也很大所以真是我們在這裡提供的就是第一點我們要趕緊去看家裡的廢車道要有備性的方便因為我覺得我們這個鐵路的加高鐵的已經差一十多大十了 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].start |
15197.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].end |
15204.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].text |
所以我們一定要平民 服務要好啦不然要怎麼跟人家怎麼檢視好不好 以上好 謝謝 謝謝議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].start |
15215.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].end |
15229.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].text |
好 謝謝我們請黃婕 黃婕 黃婕委員不在高金樹梅 高金樹梅 高金樹梅委員不在陳雪生 陳雪生 陳雪生委員不在張祺凱 張祺凱 張祺凱委員不在葉源芝委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].start |
15246.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].end |
15249.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].text |
那剛剛講那個政策還有鐵道局 謝謝請次長 當局長謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].start |
15257.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].end |
15280.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].text |
市長好 局長好我想關心一下我們那個太阪輕軌的進度啦因為我記得我去年九月當時那個陳思凱部長剛到院的時候我有拜託他就是說我們這個可行性研究已經拖了大概兩年快兩年那時候快兩年啦現在已經兩年多了一直都沒有核定但這個太阪輕軌實際上是交通部前部長王國才的承諾 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].start |
15281.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].end |
15310.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].text |
那時候到我們板橋的另外一區配合張宏祿委員說要蓋一個社後支線那太阪輕軌是主線嘛社後輕軌是支線嘛應該是先有主線才有支線嘛結果現在可行性研究一直卡住那時候陳志凱部長有承諾啦就說盡快盡量不要發現一個問題退一次發現一個問題退一次那我非常感謝他因為後來好像新北市政府在10月底有正式發文的時候就沒有退了但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].start |
15311.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].end |
15338.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].text |
一直要求補件那補件我覺得也是應該啦補充資料是應該可是補件人家送件之後的這個回函特別慢我就講最新一次最新一次那時候有要求市府補充一個捷運開發大樓出售前要提供捷運公司附屬的事業法源依據跟案例那他們是在就我了解是在2月26號補充資料那到現在大概也一個多月了啦也都沒有回文 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].start |
15339.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].end |
15362.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].text |
我是問說能不能在這個行政程序上可以加快一點因為我看起來這不是很困難的回應那甚至於說也不用文來文往嘛如果真的對於有一些細節有一些疑慮的話大家找過來開個會當面討論一下溝通溝通其實也很快啊因為我做立委以來我也協調過很多不同的部會之間你們中央的部會來我們辦公室協調 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].start |
15363.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].end |
15376.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].text |
就感覺上好像都很不熟但是大家面對面討論完之後速度就加快很多所以這部分局長 次長能不能幫忙一下因為這個交通建設也算我們地方的一個因應期盼的一個建設 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].start |
15379.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].end |
15406.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].text |
可以嗎報告委員這個案子因為之前委員有諮詢過我自己本人召開過會議跟新北市政府捷運局來做溝通跟協調他們也確實把報告有再送上來但這裡面有一個非常關鍵的問題也就是所謂的金融比的問題就是他們把未來的土地開發的這種收益納為未來的附屬事業收益 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].start |
15407.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].end |
15415.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].text |
對一般來講我們是土開效益是列為自償性經費不能夠列為未來營運期的一部分營運收入 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].start |
15417.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].end |
15438.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].text |
這個細節我覺得你可以該怎麼樣你可以找他們來再討論嘛因為現在就是五件之後沒有回應嘛我們最新有很快的照片他們的這個如果需要的話我們也可以來幫忙協調啦好不好盡快啦不要卡在你們該做的事情還是要做但是不要卡在行政流程 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].start |
15439.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].end |
15467.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].text |
比如說公文在誰的桌上等半天安排會議為了要借會議室還是配合哪個長官時間就拖一兩個月我覺得盡量不要因為行政程序卡好不好加快速度好第二個請教一個我問一個到案的問題居然可以回座沒關係問一下到案的問題今天早上有一個有一個男子開車撞到一對夫妻那夫妻受傷那男子呢他自己承諾是他自己講說他酒駕然後就照逃了 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].start |
15468.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].end |
15490.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].text |
那這個我想請教一下因為之前交通部曾經針對這個議題就是酒駕兆頭假設有受傷的一回事但是如果沒有受傷的話那酒駕兆頭他可能隔了一天兩天被抓到但是那時候他已經沒有酒精了嘛所以他可能就只能夠罰他大概幾千塊 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].start |
15491.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].end |
15513.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].text |
那比一些酒駕的人留下來乖乖的接受酒測然後被罰是輕很多所以當時就很多團體專家就說那這樣是不是鼓勵大家酒駕要照逃那我有看說交通部好像有說要研議這方面的修法的方向我不知道說你們研議的結果是怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].start |
15515.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].end |
15527.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].text |
你可以看這個PET他講說如果你配合警方9冊的話那最高是12萬罰款再加上刑責但如果說你是肇事逃逸的話大概就最高就罰3000塊那時候交通部有說會研議修法 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].start |
15532.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].end |
15560.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].text |
這裡面就是說針對肇事逃逸因為肇事的部分基本上有財損或者是這個肇事致人輕傷重傷死亡這些相關的部分他裡面的太陽是相對我知道這就是你們之前講的嘛對對對但是就是說是不是就是說每個這個就是說肇事逃逸的一個這一個部分就是為了這個躲避你剛剛有講這個就是去年你們的理由就是這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].start |
15560.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].end |
15575.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].text |
就是說因為造陶不見得是酒駕造陶啦那可能別的原因嘛所以所以一致性的提高造陶的罰則不公平嘛對不對所以然後你們就說但是你們會思考一下怎麼修法去杜絕我剛剛講的狀況嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].start |
15576.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].end |
15596.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].text |
那我現在只是問說那你們現在因為是去年11月到現在也半年了然後剛好因為今天早上也發生就是有酒駕照討的事情所以我來請問一下交通部現在你們現在的進度是怎麼樣所以不用再解釋你的理由我都知道對不對跟我們報告就是說目前我們還是著重在酒駕房子的部分啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].start |
15599.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].end |
15616.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].text |
目前我們還是這個相關房子的部分是在針對這個酒駕的部分而不是就是說在處理通案那要怎麼去解決如果你酒駕選擇肇事逃逸的問題呢有選擇肇事逃逸比配合警方酒駕罰的輕怎麼去解決這個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].start |
15620.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].end |
15643.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].text |
我想只要有肇事的這一個部分的話那這個基本上現行大概都有這個每輛車子都有這個行車記錄器的部分那在這個整個事故處理的一個部分的話我們也加上這個就是宣導如果說相關有肇討的部分的話那周邊的人或是這個當事人就趕快這個報案那我們也請這個就是說警政署 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].start |
15643.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].end |
15667.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].text |
對於這種兆頭然後再處理這個船案的一個部分的話來做一個加速這個處理但是我要跟委員報告的一個這個部分就是說委員在這個之後最近這個媒體上面大概也看到很多這個就是酒駕開車有這些相關部分那警察大概就會加強這個盤查其實這幾天 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].start |
15669.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].end |
15691.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].text |
大概也抓在這個盤查過程當中也抓到很多這個酒駕沒有你跟我講的是不同的事情警方很認真在查酒駕這我也知道然後你們加強宣導我也都知道我現在問的問題是你要怎麼去解決如果是酒駕然後因為選擇兆頭會比他乖乖接受酒測罰得比較輕這個問題我的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].start |
15694.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].end |
15708.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].text |
其實很清楚而且這個問題你也知道所以在去年的時候你們也有對社會大眾也有所回應那個時候是說會研擬方案現在只是問你的方案但現在聽起來是沒有什麼方案你們只會寄過由這個過去在 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].start |
15711.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].end |
15726.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].text |
的相關的防治的做法嗎一樣嘛對不對對好OK沒有我是問個態度而已啦好謝謝我也跟委員長分享一句因為這裡面還介紹到這個刑事法律的部分這個我們再跟法務部跟警政署再共同來做一個研究OK好謝謝好好謝謝委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].start |
15741.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].end |
15744.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].text |
徐新寅徐新寅徐新寅委員不在 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].start |
15754.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].end |
15777.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].text |
登記諮詢委員均已發言完畢 作以下決定報告及詢討完畢委員黃建豪 沈發慧 李坤澤 汪曉林所提書面諮詢列入紀錄並刊登公報委員於諮詢中要求提供相關書面資料或未及答覆部分請交通部及台鐵公司盡速以書面答覆 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].start |
15779.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].end |
15784.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].text |
等一下我們休息五分鐘後就是再審查條文現在休息 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].start |
16069.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].end |
16072.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].text |
我們現在處理國營台灣鐵路國運有限公司設置條例第10條及第23條條文修正案的審查 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].start |
16092.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].end |
16103.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].text |
進行協商同時請議事人員宣讀各提案條文對照表如有修正動議或附帶決議一併宣讀該基金存取時間以30年為限以交通部鐵道局為管理機關增訂第二項天堂基金 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].start |
16123.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].end |
16137.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].text |
處理法條部分第10條如果有修正動議並同處理請交通部台鐵公司說明請那個先委員李昆哲委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].start |
16140.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].end |
16163.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].text |
今天討論的是台鐵公司條例的第10條還有第23條其實我看各版本的重點其實都差不多主要還是在明訂台鐵的債務基金的資產開發處分不受國產法第28條的限制另外就是資產中有關古蹟歷史建築 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].start |
16164.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].end |
16186.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].text |
這些等德醫文資法第41條辦理容積轉移等等那這個部分我所了解這些資產如果留在台鐵公司其實他原本就是不受國產法28的限制也是用文資法第41條那現在是因為這些資產要 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].start |
16189.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].end |
16204.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].text |
轉到台鐵的債務基金所以受到限制所以才有相關的提案這部分要請交通部來做說明其實我認為說如果是比照原本資產在台鐵公司的狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].start |
16206.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].end |
16219.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].text |
我是認為沒有太大的爭議他只是把他轉到這個台鐵的債務基金那但是涉及國家資產還有文資法交通部應該有責任必須要明確的說明來以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].start |
16222.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].end |
16246.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].text |
好 謝謝委員的這個提問我想那個我們常債基金所接收的四大資產其中有三塊都有被指定為所謂的古蹟或是歷史建物那這部分我們會充分尊重文資法相關的這些保存跟未來的這些維護跟使用但是有關這些土地的這個所謂的容積價值 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].start |
16248.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].end |
16262.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].text |
因為過去在文治法裡面它是如果是私有土地的話可以做容積移轉當然如果是政府所持有的這些土地的話是不需要做容積移轉的所以我們這一次的這個法案我想 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].start |
16264.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].end |
16281.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].text |
建議第一個也就是償債基金的土地必須要不受國有財產法第28條的這樣的一個限制否則的話按照我們現在的估計四大資產如果只能夠做所謂的出租使用的話30年期間大概只能夠收益288億 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].start |
16283.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].end |
16307.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].text |
跟我們所承接的將近1700億的債務有1470多億的這樣的一個缺口那會導致政府的利息負擔還有未來的這個債務其實會滾雪球它會變成是一個沒有辦法處理的狀況所以我們會非常感謝相關委員的提案那我們也建議就照這兩個提案的精神來做一個通過好 其他委員有沒有什麼意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].start |
16313.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].end |
16326.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].text |
好那都沒有意見的話那我們就照修正到修正交通部修正條文通過好再來第23條交通部說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].start |
16341.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].end |
16368.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].text |
我想第23條是一個修正生肖日的這樣的一個條例那我們是不是建議按照江部的條例就是一般的法規的使用方法那本條例修正條文是公佈日施行OK那照委員徐富奎徐富奎等17人林立錦等27人楊瓊英等21人提案通過好那大家還有沒有什麼意見沒有好那我們就修正通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].start |
16370.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].end |
16395.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].text |
好 再來 加好 協商完成做以下宣告今日協商結論免以宣讀授權議事人員整理作為決議列入記錄加好 針對今日的會議做以下決議第一 並按審查完略拟據審查報告提報院會討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].start |
16399.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].end |
16418.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].text |
不須交由黨團協商 院會討論時由許召集委員智傑做補充說明另請交通部就本日審查結果補充立法說明以提供本委員會及相關院提供本委員會做審查報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].start |
16419.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].end |
16441.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].text |
好第二條次引述條文部分文字及法制用字授權主席及議事人員整理第三如本次聯席會議為本會期最後一次議事錄授權主席核定後確定好本次會議結束散會謝謝大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].start |
16448.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].end |
16450.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].text |
生死存亡的關鍵 |