| IVOD_ID |
16563 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16563 |
| 日期 |
2025-04-02 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-23-5 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期交通委員會第5次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
5 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
23 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
交通委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期交通委員會第5次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2025-04-02T08:30:16+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-04-02T13:25:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
04:54:44 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/f826c2e4afc302dde38e399d34f1f0d8445fc32f41448fc06e2c503bbdfdf4b6ba7ce1f9dd95139e5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-04-02T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期交通委員會第5次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查國家通訊傳播委員會函為修正「應經核准之電信管制射頻器材」、「電信管制射頻器材製造輸入及申報作業管理辦法」及「電信管理業務規費收費標準」第十四條條文案。
二、審查(一)委員黃健豪等19人擬具「電信管理法第五條、第八條及第七十九條條文修正草案」案、(二)台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「電信管理法第五條及第八條之一條文修正草案」案、(三)委員鍾佳濱等21人擬具「電信管理法第五條、第九條及第七十九條條文修正草案」案、(四)台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「電信管理法第九條及第四十條條文修正草案」案及(五)委員陳俊宇等19人擬具「電信管理法第七十五條條文修正草案」案。
【上午詢答、下午處理】） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:30:16 - 13:25:00 |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
1811.735 |
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1821.961 |
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好 各位請就座好 出席委員已足法定人數現在開會請議事論言先讀上次議事錄 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
1833.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
1854.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
立法院第十一屆第三會期交通委員會第四次全體委員會議議事錄時間一百一四年三月二十七日星期四上午九十至中午十二時五十二分地點本院紅樓二零一會議室出席委員李坤哲等十五人立席委員黃國昌等十二人立席官員國家通訊傳播委員會代理主任委員陳崇樹等 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
1854.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
1881.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
主席許昭及委員致捷報告四項宣讀上市會議議事錄決定議事錄確定邀請國家通訊傳播委員會列席報告業務概況並備諮詢本日會議由國家通訊傳播委員會代理主任委員陳崇樹報告後藉由委員洪孟凱等20人提出諮詢均經代理主任委員陳崇樹及相關人員分別予以答覆決定一報告及詢問完畢二為有號等二人所提書面諮詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
1882.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
1911.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
均列入記錄並刊登公報三委員於諮詢中要求提供相關書面資料或未及答覆部分請國家通訊傳播委員會盡速以書面答覆散會宣讀完畢好那個議事錄等一下再請處理現在我來介紹今天列席的那個官員我們國家通訊傳播委員會的代理主委陳崇樹主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
1913.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
1922.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
主任秘書黃文哲主任秘書綜合處處長溫處長基礎處處長陳春木平台事業管理處副處長黃天陽電台與內容事務處林慧琳法律處處長蔡志魯 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
1943.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
1960.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
北區監理處處長蔡國棟數位部政務次長林怡靜次長資源管理司司長曾文芳法治處副處長吳怡倫數位產業級檢證機政嚴坤鴻 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
1971.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
2000.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
法務部我們政次黃士傑政次參事廖江憲副司長簡美惠這個我們檢察司的副司長內政部刑事警察局副局長邱少洲詐欺犯罪防治中心科長林耕宇科長好以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
2002.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
2023.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
以上這些官員介紹那現在是不是請我們啊代主委陳代主委針對今天的這些打醒跟各位委員所提案的個案啊也就本日進行 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
2026.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
2039.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
應經核准之電信管理設平器具及電信管理設平器具製造輸入及申報作業管理辦法電信管理業務 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
2043.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
2061.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
歸會及收賄標準第14條之條文等行政命令及電信管理法修正案的審查針對這些請我們現在NCC我們陳代主委來做說明那時間在15分鐘以內 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
2067.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
2076.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
主委還沒有報告以前我再來補充介紹我們本會召委先進行報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
2088.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
2106.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
主席各位委員各位女士先生大家早安今天應要列席貴委員會就電信管制設明器材製造輸入及申報作業管理辦法及電信業務規範收費標準及應經合整則電信管制設明器材條文提出本會說明進行指教一 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
2107.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
2136.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
關於修正陰莖核整電信管制設備器材部分首先是第一級電信管制設備器材的納管納管的主要項目有干擾箱、遮蔽器等第二部分是第二級電信管制設備器材新增海上倖存者電位裝置修正電信管制設備器材製造輸入及申報作業的管理辦法的重點第一個是第三條增訂第一級電信實驗第一級電信管制設備器材項目 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
2138.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2158.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
第二個重點是第七條及第八條增訂第一級電信管制設備器材使用計畫申請程序及應付文件的規定第三個重點是第三條增訂第二級電信管制設備器材進口核准政治進口用途新增供外國傳播或外銷傳播使用第四個重點是 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
2158.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2169.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
第三條增訂得憑審驗證明即可進口之器材種類簡化行政程序第十七條增訂救災人員用之專用代碼 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2171.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2197.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
第六是十八條修正應分別申請進口核准證之情勢第七第23條明定取得電台執照視同已完成申報第八第24條增訂業餘無線電台可憑審驗證明解除列管第九第25條增訂特殊用途器材免報請主管機關解除列管第十第26條簡化未經形式認證業餘無線電機之管理方式 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2201.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2218.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
第十一 第三十一條增訂主管機關得委託他機關辦理業務之授權規定那第三個執法規定電信管理業務規費收費標準十四條的修正他重點有四個第一個是用第二級電信管制設備機材輸入核准審查費 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2220.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2245.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
第二 第二級電信管制設明器材使用計畫審查費第三 電信管制設明器材進口核准暫期審查費這些都是為了反映行政成本結語 為回應最新民意本會業或財政部同意停徵自用第二級電信管制設明器材輸入核准審查費一年現在也已經啟動退費作業程序將陸續聯繫進口人確認相關資料後進出退費 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2249.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2277.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
本會議將針對這段期間各界所提保規意見進行研析規劃在一年內檢討相關法規並完成修正作業那今天的第二部分是關於電信管理法的部分委員所提的修正重點包括委員黃建豪等19人提案修正電管法第5條第8條及第79條修正條文的草案重點是第5條應辦理定義事業登記的情況 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2280.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2293.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
也增訂未辦理電信事業登記者視同電信事業以及利用行動寬頻專用電信網路連接公眾電信網路者為電信事業之登記第二點 第八條 增訂第五項 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2296.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2313.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
那第二大重點是臺灣民眾黨團提案修正電信管理法第五條及第八條之一的修正案重點有二第一第五條修正為提供電信服務者應向NCC辦理定義事業之登記第二新政第八條之一規定定義事業應進行確認客戶身份程序 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2314.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2332.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
第三個提案是委員眾嘉賓等21人提案修正電信管理法第5條第9條及第79條修正條文重點有二第一第5條應辦理電信事業登記的情況增加MVMO以及境外銷售事業所提供之語音及速遞公眾通訊服務 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2334.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2361.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
第二重點是第九條增訂第五項規定電信事業或銷售境外所提供的語音或數據等公共通信服務之經營者銷售用戶號碼應核對及登錄用戶資料第四個提案是台灣民眾黨團提案修正電信管理法第九條及第四十條規定第五個提案是委員陳俊宇等十九人提案修正電信管理法第七十五條修正規定加重這個罰還額度 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2364.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2372.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
那第二部分是NCC對委員所提案的修正的回應說明第一個配合打在修正的相關議題的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2374.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2400.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
上述所有委員所提的案子相關提供電信服務的業者或經營MVMO轉售或使用智慧訓練號碼及物聯網號碼以外的用戶號碼ISP及應納管的部分這一部分利益良善但為配合打造而要求所有的電信服務都要代辦理登記可能會將管理或者治理的思維跟總意 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2402.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2421.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
網際網路的這一部分跟資訊服務兩個層面涵蓋在內會依託電信服務它僅僅涵蓋基礎網路層營運層的範圍實務上因為上南明確界定電信服務的範疇這個會大幅改變電信管理法的管制架構另外 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2422.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2443.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
像一般第五條我們目前現行第五條規定使用電信資源者有強制登記的義務但是資訊服務業者等像LINE或Instagram等如果沒有辦理登記後續的是否處罰會產生執行上的困擾那第二部分是關於這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2445.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2472.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
提議建議說應該要從事MVMO轉售服務的包括ISB以及是否納管這一部分本會的內部的討論的結論是採正面態度那如果MVMO要拉伸到母法來列管這邊我們也予以尊重但是我們就這個ISB的部分因為現行的業者大小規模 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2474.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2495.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
動態範圍非常大如果登記以後都以相同義務來要求恐怕會違反比例原則那我們希望說能夠在就營業規模營運型態風險管控能力對供應影響屏住等需要有個層級化的義務再者上述的定義事業應該落實KYC的義務這一部分在打造條例去年7月31號 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2498.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2510.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
施行公佈之後這些提案大部分是在這個打造條例施行前所提實務上我們已經在配合落實打造條例的不管是17條18條19條23條等都已經在落實所以這一塊已經有已經有以納管 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2516.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2534.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
另外我們一例電信管理法六四條授權規定定的電信事業用戶號碼使用管理規則也已經將KYC等等予以納管所以在六四KYC的部分目前法制工具上升完備是無需要修正電信管理法來增納KYC的義務 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2535.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2551.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
那另外加入DSRPG機制配合解析的議題實務上DSRPG機制僅能避免使用者接取惡意或不當的域名名稱但是無法避免使用者直接以IP Address來登錄來進階的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2554.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2580.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
這種情況所以我們覺得說況且網際網路的接取義務它不涉及到網路內容的偵測與審查所以這部分我們覺得還有待討論的空間另外根據TEDaMIC的說明DSRP是志願參與的機制成員除了ISP也包括教育部的學術網路所以即便是沒有登記為定義事業也能夠加入 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2581.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2600.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
第三個是關於提案的內容的重點是包括增進網路流量紀錄部分這一塊也是在去年通保法修訂前所提但是去年7月31號通保法修正後這一部分已經在該法已經有一所規定那今天的法務部的報告也有對這方面有所呼應結語 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2602.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2626.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
本會尊重各委員提出的修法意見但電信管理法除了防制詐騙外 攸關產業發展 市場公平競爭與消費的權益等除了參考大院委員所提的草案是否增管服務類型管制正當性法律架構調整管制方式是否符合比例原則等我們認為需要通盤考量也要與外界通訊溝通以降低修法衝擊 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2627.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2655.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
本會感謝大院對於電信管理法修法議題的關切期待行政院提出修法草案後即時再請大院指教與支持 謝謝好 謝謝陳代主委那接下來我們就數位部林次長報到的請準備來準備一下那我來補充介紹我們本會委員我們洪孟楷委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2658.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2663.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
張祺凱委員好現在我們請我們數位部林次長來報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2674.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2690.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
主席各位委員大家好今天的會議主要是審查NCC函請的兩個提案以及各位委員針對電信管理法條文修正草案等提出的五個提案本部受邀出席向大家簡要報告相關情況也請各位委員指導 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2692.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2711.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
首先為了讓政府發送的簡訊更容易辨識並防止詐騙分子冒充政府發送簡訊本部推出了111政府專屬短碼簡訊服務現在所有政府機構都可以使用111這個專屬號碼發送簡訊讓民眾一眼就能確認收到的簡訊是不是由政府所發送的 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2712.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2729.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
目前已經有394個單位使用111短碼簡訊服務並截至今年2月底已經有超過1105萬條簡訊透過這項服務發送出去了各位有緣的提案將第二類電信事業的相關業者納管強化客戶風險所謂的KYC機制 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2733.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2758.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
及新增調取網路流量紀錄的規定以打擊詐欺協助攔阻設兒少性侵不法網站主要涉及的主管機關是NCC的權責本部敬表尊重以上是本部的報告敬請各位委員指教謝謝謝謝我們數位部的林次長接下來請法務部的黃次長來報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2770.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2786.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
主席、各位委員還有所有的與會同仁大家早安大家好本日封邀列席貴委會全體委員會議審查相關的法案及委員會命令請代表法務部列席並提出報告如下 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2787.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2805.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
本部為落實打詐綱領嚴懲詐欺犯罪任由賦予執法機關運用科技偵查手段法律基礎是必要並須完備相關的法制片以精準打擊詐欺犯罪故好前經行政院同意你具打詐釋法經大院陸續 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2808.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2823.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
113年7月12日7月16日三讀通過詐欺犯罪危害防治條例通訊保障及監察法下層通保法以及刑事訴訟法特殊強制處分專章以及洗錢防治法的修正草案 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2825.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2849.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
其中有鑒於近來詐欺案件氾濫且資安攻擊事件或網路恐嚇信件平仁均為利用網路匿蹤這案件為了溯源追查上開案件犯嫌之真實身份新修正通過通保法已經增訂調取網路流用紀錄之法定程序並且也在通保法的第三條之一的第三項 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2849.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2872.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
明定好網路流量記錄之相關定義好那麼另外的關於網路流量記錄系統的設置方式保存方式保存期間查詢的作業程序調取之項目監督費額及其他相關事項之辦法依依照通保法第十四條之一第六項的授權由本部會同內政部並會長 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2874.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2902.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
國家通訊傳播委員會及相關機關訂定完成了相關的授權執法於113年的12月27日發布網路流量紀錄的管理辦法針對這個相關的系統的設置方式調取的紀錄項目及保存的時間電信事業及設置公眾電信網路者的協力義務以及調取網路這個流量紀錄的費用等等事項均以強加規範 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2903.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2924.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
是以這個草案第9條來增訂相關授權規定之必要性 建請大院參酌主管機關之意見來進行審議各草案其餘規範 電信事業登記及管理相關事項 試涉各該主管機關權責 本部競表尊重 以上報告 敬請各位指教 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2933.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2948.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
好謝謝我們黃市長那因為現在在場有三位委員那我們的那個議事錄我們確定一下請問各位委員有沒有意見好沒有意見我們的議事確定好謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2967.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
2969.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
現在我們就來試試看現在我們就來試試看現在我們就來試試看 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
2993.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
2994.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
今天有幾個案還有那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
3003.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
3018.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
呃另外我們那個喜智捷我們召委齁我們召委來抱一下吹一下的齁剛才沒介紹好我們陳靜林陳委員齁再補充進好接下來 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
3020.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
3043.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
我們因為今天有好幾個案也就是現在列席的台灣民眾黨有提兩個案那現在我們首先請我們張祺凱委員來做提案說明針對電信管理法修正的提案黨代表及委員說明的要旨那現在首先請我們張祺凱委員來說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
3049.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
3053.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
陳進寧的來的一毛鐵案 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
3060.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
3080.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
我今天是代表我們主席林國成林委員來做提案說明這次台灣民眾黨提出的是修正第五條跟第八條之一重點在於說為了要加強二類電信的管理跟兼顧通信市場的公平競爭所以要修正 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
3081.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
3102.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
第五條跟第八條之一的這個草案要規定電信業者要跟政府登記而且要接受管理同時呢要加強電信服務業者這個客戶風險的這個管理的機制比較具體的條文修正條文在第五條我們明定 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
3104.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
3127.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
提供電信服務應該向主管機關辦理電信事業的登記違反前項規定者沒有向主管機關辦理電信事業的登記由中央主管機關除以新台幣100萬元以上1000萬以下的罰款而且要通知限期改正屆時沒有改正者要按次 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
3130.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3147.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
處罰而且勒令中斷服務我們在法案裡面這樣一個明定另外在第8條第8條之一請條文大家可以參閱然後這個規定在最後有明定就是違反第一項第三項規定及第四項鎖定犯法者由中央機關 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3149.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3175.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
處電信業者新台幣100萬元以上600萬元以下的罰款而且通知限期是要改正的這一期沒有改正者得案次予以處罰那另外第二部分的修正重點是在增訂網路流量的記錄的定義跟制定保存網路流量的記錄的辦法跟授權的規定這個重點是因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3177.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3198.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
台灣民眾黨認為要同步修法 刻意電信事業跟設置公眾電信網路業者他有保存網路流量記錄的這個義務所以我們明確在這個第九條的條文提出一個修正案對網路流量的記錄做一個明確的定義另外呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3199.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3223.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
也明確的提到這一項的網路流量紀錄的保存期限跟他的方式還有他保存的這個資料的範圍還有收匯這個方式跟其他相關的事項由主管機關來定之另外在40條修正案裡面特別是要強調網路流量這個紀錄把它加上去我代表這個我們這個主席林國成做這樣一個提案說明 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3225.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3232.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
好 謝謝我們張祺凱 張委員那大概提案的要旨都已經講得非常清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3233.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3261.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
那另外特別跟主委說明一下因為我補充說明一下這個也就是40條修改這些網路流量的紀錄這個部分是提供你們參考那因為我們有幾個華就是打造的華都已經把它放進去所以這個我們也原則性這個是我們黃國昌委員他特別非常重視所以這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3262.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3289.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
也就是可以提供你們參考但是不以修正這個部分我們可以不以修正好所以這個我特別說明一下那至於就是第八條之一這個部分我們蠻在乎的因為現在我們整個打炸的法定修訂過程當中沒有提到這一塊那真正的問題現在所有的破口最嚴重的就是這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3290.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3311.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
所以提供給主委還有我們有關單位的代表提供這個參考所以以上這些提供給我們NCC我們陳代主委這裡參佐好不好好接下來就請我們提案人陳俊宇委員來做提案說明時間3分鐘拜託俊宇 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3331.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3338.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
主席我們在場陳主委還有各席的我們主管還有各位委員大家早 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3341.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3364.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
我們針對這個電信管理法第75條的部分來做一個提案說明那由於我們近年來這個詐騙案居高不下並且犯罪的手法一直在翻新造成國人相當嚴重的一個財產損失那我們根據警政署的這個打詐儀表板的這個數據顯示假投資詐騙還有網路購物的這個詐騙依然是我們詐騙手法 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3371.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3376.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
內最大宗的而有關這個電信詐騙的這種犯罪多為詐騙集團透過申辦人頭這個門號辦假帳號來聯繫受害者並且進行後續的相關詐欺的這個行為 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3389.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3410.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
那有鑑於這個詐欺的犯罪需要電信業者積極的協力共同來預防那參佐本法第37條所顯示設置使用電信資源的這個公眾網路者應該將這個申辦門號者之身份查核作業與審查納入營運的這個計畫當中業者在這個前端門號核發的這個作業 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3417.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3426.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
流程上有落實審核和管理的責任而在第75條原定50萬以上500萬以下的罰款恐有過輕之餘 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3435.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3452.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
嚇阻效果有限所以本席在第一會期便提出電信管理法第75條的修正希望能夠透過提高違規的成本以敦促業者來落實對於門號申辦者的這個身份進行查核 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3453.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3470.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
那對於條文的修正我所要強調的是電信業者必須要落實KYC的義務以賀止人頭門號被詐騙集團進行犯罪所用那從源頭來阻斷犯罪 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3470.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3492.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
進一步避免民眾的財產損失我相信這才能夠根絕詐騙集團利用我們電信業者的手法來做詐騙以上我請我們NCC相關部門應該要來重視看能不能來做一個適度的修正以上 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3493.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3518.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
好謝謝我們陳俊宇等19位委員提出他這個電信華的75條的修正案所以拜託NCC及有關單位就這個針對這個提案特別去研議一下來那接下來就請我們鍾嘉斌委員來提案說明鍾嘉斌委員等21位修改的 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3519.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3525.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
第五條 第九條 七十九條以上的查案請宗嘉斌委員來做提案說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3526.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3553.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
謝謝主席戴維宣讀本席等21人的提案條次有鑒於通訊傳播業已經進入到中高度的匯流過去依照基線設備就是包括基礎跟管線的有無來進行分類管理比如說第一類第二類但是為了因應當前國際網際網路服務的形態原本依電信法許可的第二類的電信事業提供電信服務 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3553.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3581.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
現在都不用再申請合佩他只要是沒有申請合佩無線電頻率電信號碼的業者比如說他是經營虛擬行動網路服務轉售或使用智慧虛擬碼及物聯網號碼以外的用戶號碼使用他電信事業提供之無線電頻率等這種情況的業者那麼應該妥為的因應並且避免漏洞發生 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3581.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3608.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
那現在呢我們詐欺犯罪危害防治條例已經增訂明定相關的機制和技術線措施比如說限制瀏覽移除流量管制以及停止解析和限制接取這種方式來遏止詐騙顯見要求網際網路接取服務提供者就所謂的IASP來執行限制接取已經成為我們堵詐 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3609.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3638.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
和網路治理的重要工具然而在我們兒童及少年性剝削防治條例以及性侵害犯罪防治法等法令也都明定IASP有配合執法機關執行限制接取的法律義務但是唯有目前電信管理法對於提供網路接取服務採自願登記造成目前我國現有的IASP的數量未明 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3639.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3656.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
主管機關無法通知所有ISAP執行限制接取導致民眾仍然可以接取不法網站的執法漏洞考量到主管機關可能因為新興電信服務業的發展 監理還有考慮到消費者權益等需要 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3657.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3670.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
需要將特定服務業者呢納入管理以利減和相關的服務項目和營業概況那也避免成為網路犯罪的漏洞因此呢本修正草案將從以往需 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3672.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3700.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
經主管機關特許或許可時的經營改為登記制之後其中虛擬行動網路服務業者確實使用政府所核發之無線電頻率及用戶號碼等資源應向主管機關辦理電信事業登記其次用戶號碼為電信資源其轉售使用用戶號碼之行為無明確法律管制措施來集合實名制認證 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3701.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3718.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
造成犯得以利用此漏洞來脫逃罪責那應其可與或合配用戶電號碼的電信事業提供電信服務應登記並予以管制那另外智慧虛擬碼及物聯網號碼無轉售情形純屬機械使用的那沒有這種前述風險就排除 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3725.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3749.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
那另外為了補足並強化現行電信管理法將用戶實名認證納入電信事業一般業務明定電信事業及經營者在銷售用戶號碼之實名認證的責任才能有效的降低網路犯罪重上我們提出了電信管理法第5條第9條及第79條的修正草案將相關業者納入管理以避免類似情況重複發生 以上好 謝謝我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3753.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3773.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
我們鍾嘉賓委員代表21個提案說明接下來我們黃建豪委員等19位那現在請我們黃建豪委員來做第5條第8條79條修正草案的說明現在請黃建豪委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3774.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3794.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
好 謝謝主席那本席今天提到的這個是電信法第5條第8條第79條條文修正的草案那主要也是要針對這個預防我們的詐騙集團掛鉤的問題那當然這個修法的源起也是源自108年我們從電信法轉到電信管理法之後許多的二類電信在新的 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3795.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3824.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
電信管理法裡面是沒有被管束的那本來在電信法裡面是針對二類電信其實是有管的那現在是沒有所以我們針對這部分在電信管理法第五條裡面有幾個比較強化的部分那第一個當然是新增對於尚未辦理電信事業登記進行轉軌的業者應該視為他同樣是電信事業直接納管那這樣的做法我們希望有利於主管機關對於該事業登記的時候重新檢視他目前提供的服務內容跟營業概況避免他成為電信詐騙的這個漏洞 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3825.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3851.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
那在針對虛擬情動網路服務業業者部分因為他已經也確實的使用了政府所核發的無線電頻率及用戶號碼等資源所以也應該要強化要求他向主管機關來辦理電信事業的登記那在用戶號碼為電用戶號碼本身就作為電信資源但他的轉售跟使用用戶的號碼的行為目前的這個電信管理法裡面沒有明確的法律管制措施用來稽查實際用戶的身份 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3851.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3872.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
所以可以看到很多的詐騙集團有些人士他是利用了這樣的疏漏逃脫他的不法行為所以我們也希望說透過這個第五條第一項第六款的修正讓他能夠提供登記之後一樣能夠有這個有管制的作為那其他使用其他電信事業提供的無線電頻率者因為他一樣可以獲得 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3873.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3897.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
無線電頻率或用戶號碼的電信事業提供相關類似的電信服務我們想這部分目前也沒有管制我們希望也把它列入納管裡面那再來有一個第五項第五條第一項的第八款裡面我們是授權主管機關可以是各項的犯罪行為不斷的日新月的情況下來考慮新增納管其他的電信服務項的業務 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3898.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3923.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
那在第8條的部分主要是希望說能夠強化防詐的作為將核對和登錄用戶的資料一樣一併的納入電信事業的一般義務裡面有效的降低詐欺的犯罪那也明定電信事業的銷售用戶號碼KYC就是Know Your Customer就是查核身份的這個責任我把它增訂在第8條第5項那在第79條的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3925.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
3951.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
是為了避免二類業者採取不登記電信事業的手段規避原先他們本來就應該負擔的責任的義務跟罰則所以將違反所謂剛剛提到第五條第一項規定未向主管機關辦理電信事業的這個業者要納管那也明定電信事業沒有落實KYC沒有落實這個身份查核的責任我把它定在79條第一項第25款第26款以上說明 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
3956.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
3971.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
謝謝我們黃建豪委員的提案說明那現在我們要進行行打先告以下事項行打時間出席委員6加2分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
3972.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
3988.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
列席委員4加1分鐘委員花言登記到10點30分截止那各委員如果有臨時提案請以10點前提出以便議事人員的會診 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
3989.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
4019.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
那暫定10點30分休息10分鐘那另外中午休息的時間因為牽涉到我們各委員的醒打時間所以在這裡就比較反衝的特別跟大家宣布也就是我們下午是否要體檢那這個是打醒時間而來做決定所以特別跟各位來做先告 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
4019.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
4040.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
那另外現在我們就請登記第一位的洪孟楷委員來巡打請洪孟楷委員好主席謝謝麻煩請陳代理主委陳代主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
4046.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
4075.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
委員長好 代理主委早我想我們先請教一下因為緬甸在上禮拜發生大地震那我們有看到說有電視台在報導時候誤用網路的AI生成影像那NCC也發出三點聲明應該要落實事實查核那這電視台有做更正啟示但這件事情我們凸顯幾個部分AI現在是大家使用越來越頻繁尤其是生成影像也越來越方便對吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
4075.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
4089.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
我看到我們NCC之前在113年還有做一個調查也特別把AI使用給放進去那就新聞台的這個案例來講未來新聞台到底能不能用AI生成影像來播放新聞 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
4092.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
4120.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
根本報告AI的使用部分像有些電視台一定用它來播報氣象公視也有相關的一些報導但是那個是它所謂的虛擬主播嘛那我現在講的是像這一個案件裡面NCC發出三點聲明就說有新聞台用AI生成影像去播放地震那這一個未來NCC的標準是什麼可以允許新聞台在播放新聞的時候用AI生成影像嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
4122.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
4145.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
我們是回歸到到他們的編輯自主部分要他們follow他們自己的自律規範他們內部的內控管理那這部分我們有提醒他關於這個你的標準在哪邊主委這個我覺得是很正面要大家看待的因為有可能這樣的事情會越來越多那NCC的標準到底在哪裡第一 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
4145.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
4171.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
完全不能用第二可以用沒有就是反正大家自主但第三用但是要加警語譬如說要告訴很清楚明白告訴大家這不是事實因為主委你應該有看過現在AI生成影像可以以假亂真非常真實甚至可以用我們之前講Deep City有可以用你的人臉然後直接變成這種 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
4173.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4184.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
影像那如果說未來有新聞台他想要播放什麼樣的一個新聞他直接模擬AI用一個名人的畫面行不行 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4185.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4214.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
我們要求他這裡頭必須要追求這個事實查證的部分如果需要標示的話需要標示的部分都需要標示那可以允許之後用AI生成譬如說今天立法院的一個狀況他沒有拍到那個畫面但他可以生成我的臉你的臉然後我們來對話是一樣可是可以生成你的臉我的臉來還原那個場景嗎他要揭示他要揭露說他這個影像是只要揭露就可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4215.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4227.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
而且還要事實查證也要事實查證那事實查證誰來查證如果說他是一個沒有辦法去好我另外一個角度法院 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4228.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4252.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
以前因為法院裡面不能設以聽取判決或是說審理期間所以我們看到很多新聞台他是用素描對不對他是請人進去素描然後畫那個圖片出來那未來能不能直接用AI生成影像把當事人把法官他一樣啊他說他有進去看啊那用AI生成影像把那個畫面以前是用素描那我現在直接變成是AI影像 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4253.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4268.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
基本上我們是要求他要有標示要有自立那這一塊部分他們工協會衛廣工會他們也有採訪的一些規範主委身為主管機關我們難道不需要防範衛然嗎我覺得這個是大家都可以想一想喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4269.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4293.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
AI生成影像已經那麼普及了未來只會多不會少如果我們NCC主管機關都沒有一個明確的態度的話我覺得這樣子反而沒有標準那你為什麼會在這一次緬甸大地震新聞台用AI生成影像然後NCC馬上有聲明但是也沒有處罰嘛看起來這個新聞台要不要被處罰 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4294.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4310.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
根本報告我們其實現在有待未來的AI運用我們正在找那個外面的委員會都是製作會來製作AI人工智慧應用的指引都是廣電業者的AI人工智慧應用指引正在討論正在行程當中 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4311.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4341.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
主委本席要就是說你們現在應該要著手亡羊補老猶未完矣但你不能現在連羊跑了你都還在那邊還在那邊講自主還在什麼什麼時候你們可以提出應該新聞台一體適用標準我沒有針對哪一家新聞台因為這可能是未來都會面臨的但是我們NCC要有態度要告訴大家那該處罰要處罰先講出界線讓新聞台知道而不是什麼都推給說自主自律 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4342.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4368.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
各位什麼時候可以做到這塊我們那個委員會執行出來之後我們會找業者來討論然後看看是不是一個公版的治理規範請他們日後來落實是什麼時候時間點我們這個執行應該是今年的案子嘛應該快的話第三季應該第三季快的話那就下半年現在才4月2號 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4371.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4386.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
我們回去再請我們的湊頭單位再請大家加緊腳步看看有沒有可能更提早一點主委本期期待是宜快不宜慢因為這是一個標準來再來第二部分下半年喔你講的喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4388.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4403.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
我們需要能力越快越好了 那目前的schedule是這樣子 標準出來讓大家有規則可循再來第二個部分我想今天我們審查有一個很重要的一個方向就是也是所謂的750元之亂現在因為NCC這邊已經有講到是說我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4411.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4431.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
這個公眾平台也已經有通過要求重新討論收費標準那以謙卑的態度面對各界的意見思考使用者收費的合理性跟執行的妥善性所以我們現在進行的方向為何合理跟妥善你會以哪個方向來做 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4433.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4445.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
我們兩個都會來進行那現在也是正在程序進行當中就是我們在跟財政部申請停政之後就已經持續進行業務宣導以及內部的這個法規是 所以現在沒有堅持750元的統一標準 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4447.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4477.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
就是我們在研議過程在檢討過程裡頭這個應該是朝向這個最大主流名義目前最大主流名義是免徵嘛免徵 這個應該是我們主要的考量方向所以本席剛剛跟我們召委我們有一個提案就今天的這個審查我想前面的相關條文我們沒有意見因為尊重NCC委員NCC提出來的一個行政的作業但是對於後面付表的收費我們是予以不予通過我想這也是主委你剛剛講的一個方向嘛對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4479.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4501.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
報言這塊我們是建議免予通過然後做成要求我們再盡快的完成法規修正是當然啊就是要你們趕快再補後續的作業嘛來那免徵之後所以未來現在有眾說紛紜的說法有人講說是免徵一年有人講說是伺機而動等風頭過後之後再提出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4502.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4522.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
各位跟委員報告因為我們是停政一年一年期間我們是期許我們能夠完成法規所謂標準的修正那如果說標準沒辦法如期修正完成我們會有再跟財政部再申請繼續展現停政的可能當初要收這個750元的時候有沒有考慮過到底影響會多廣多大 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4523.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4539.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
當初的標準的作業程序對外徵詢意見我們都有做都有落實那你有評估譬如說一年可能因為這樣的一個標準可以收多少錢如果一年兩萬多件每一件750多件都呈上去就是這種數據 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4545.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4556.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
現在數量又在增加所以這個數目字會再高一點本時看到你們去年的預算書啦稅率多增加了在審查費用多增加了一千萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4558.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4575.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
所以換言之其實你們自己也知道是說這個只要收費上去之後比去年就是至少會多一千萬以上的稅率嘛那你之前有講說如果說是四萬台一年的話那750元就更多嘛等於是兩千多三千萬嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4575.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4600.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
對不對是那但重點在於是公平合理的收費標準以及不要讓大家覺得是說政府在搶錢這才是我們民意代表以及為什麼說一天裡面政府公共政策平台可以五千人達標我想這是民意的反彈請代理主委一定要聽到民意的真實性可以嗎可以我們現在就是朝這個方向在檢討 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4601.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4620.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
最後今天有幾個委員都有討論到這個法案的一個修正本席也很重視打炸的必要性以及電信管理法我看你們給大家的一個這個修法建議也沒有反對你裡面也講到很多是說充分溝通降低修法的衝擊但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4621.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4648.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
尊重各委員提出來的修法意見嘛是不是那其中你有提到但是希望電信管理法修法議題能夠跟行政院提出的修法草案一起來做討論那我想請教現在行政院電信管理法修法草案進度在哪裡目前還在我們會內的還在NCC還在NCC因為我們現在也還沒有送行政院 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4650.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4669.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
那院版也就還沒有辦法出來那什麼時候可以出來我們期待盡快你這不就是拖延戰術嗎 以拖待變不是 因為我們現在委員會沒辦法組成代理主委很高興你又講到這個了代理主委上個禮拜很多委員都關心嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4670.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4692.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
那到現在一個禮拜過去了有沒有再請示一下了解一下我看行政院上禮拜的發言他不敢用正式回應他講政院人士表示持續徵詢中那有沒有去了解上個禮拜你在這邊很無奈的也講說上級機關這個是行政院長的權責要提出委員名單那您知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4694.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4719.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
我在講一個數字給您了解我在講一個真實狀況可以了解您知道上一任陳建仁院長所提出來的四位委員名單什麼時候復委的嗎應該是去年第二季左右去年7月16號在第一會期的最後一天我們處理所有議案的時候那一天就正式復委 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4721.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4748.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
一個會期就正式復委那請教 您知道第二會期交通委員會是做NCC委員的審理嗎第二會期開了十幾次交通委員會有藍的召委 有綠的召委你知道有排過幾次NCC委員的審查嗎權責不在我這邊你不知道 權責當然不在你這邊啊 你是代理主委啊這個是立法院的權責啊 但我只是請教您知不知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4750.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4764.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
第二會期十幾次交通委員會開會有藍的招委有綠的招委NCC委員名單已經在7月16就覆為了但第二會期有排過幾次NCC委員審查應該是沒有零次 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4766.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4789.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
所以現在在講嘛誰的責任民進黨的召委也沒有想要排NCC委員審查那直到了11月28號因為我們NCC組織法在三讀通過變成行政院要重新提人11月28號到今年現在是4月2號四個月過去了行政院長提的新的人選在哪裡沒有那所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4794.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4810.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
NCC現在在講跟我們講行政院提出修法草案電信管理法修法我們在拜託大院指教跟支持我也很想支持啊但是你們行政院的版本在哪裡沒有NCC |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4814.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4840.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
幕僚作業中幕僚很辛苦啊公務人員很辛苦啊那沒有辦法開會因為現在委員沒有辦法補齊沒有辦法補齊誰的責任行政院長不提人四個月過去了到現在還是只聞樓梯響沒有任何委員名單出爐我甚至看到啊代理主委有媒體講說有可能要等到今年行政院現在最期待的罷免 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4841.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4867.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
結束告一段落才要再提人還要再拖半年啊您覺得這樣子對NCC的業務會不會造成衝擊這部分我沒有立場表達意見你什麼沒有立場表達意見你是代理主委你現在連講說對NCC的業務有沒有衝擊你都不敢講了衝擊部分當然是有當然是有嘛主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4871.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4886.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
就是論事專業我一定會質詢你你就就專業回答因為NCC是什麼獨立超然專業自主的機關不受任何執政者所影響這是你應該有的風骨謝謝謝謝委員好 謝謝孟愷謝謝我們洪孟愷委員的質詢好 現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4904.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4926.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
好 感謝現在第二位林國成委員質詢主席請陳代理主委好 請陳代理主委來 黃竹密你也上來好了來 黃竹密教委好好 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4929.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
4954.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
好 謝謝主席 各位我們官員其實陳代主委因為我跟黃竹密跟你確確實實都時常有在溝通你們的問題所在但是我不希望我不希望我們在那邊跟他們參與政治因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
4955.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
4963.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
我們這個單位是獨立單位兼有專業的單位所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
4964.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
4988.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
不要跟政治有關 這點我蠻在乎的你如果不是獨立單位 或者專業性質的單位 我不會要求他們要有政治聯想 他們有政治意圖 或者政治作法 我沒有意見但是我們NCC 我千拜託萬拜託陳代主委 你還是要有擔當 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
4990.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
4998.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
該你的業務 該做的就做不要穿插有政治性的東西這點我想我上次也跟你提醒過嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
4999.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
5025.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
因為我說實在我在當這個召委能做的我一定做能協調的我會幫你們協調讓你們的業務可以啊講快一點不妨害的情況之下不影響老百姓以及不影響你們的尊嚴監督的立場基本上我都會支持的我都會支持所以特別跟主委所以我不希望 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
5026.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
5053.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
你們有正製兩制的把所有的意志放下去這點我極度反對好 那個陳代主委還有黃祖密因為花園人是你但是我就感覺到很奇怪還是老話一句我上個禮拜也已經請教拜託陳代主委也就是我們王政加NCC的委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
5054.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
5081.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
他可以隨隨便便指控立法院不審你們現在跟他溝通的怎麼樣你們認為這是言論自由我絕對不會接受言論自由可以批評立法院啊今天你們NCC是一個獨立單位如果我們事實的東西我沒話講可是不是事實的東西他公然招搖公然招搖這種東西好嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
5084.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
5109.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
主委我說實在你現在是代主委沒錯他這個委員也是立法院通過的那怎麼會船過水無痕呢今天最起碼立法院都已經任命他為NCC委員他怎麼可以去指責這些這是你授意或者他個人的意思來主委你說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
5111.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
5123.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
跟委員回報應該是他個人的言論上禮拜召委有指示我們回去大概查一些相關辦法大概是這樣子依據全區部所訂的公務員發表職務言論同意辦法 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
5126.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
5142.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
它有兩項第一個前提是植物言論的定義是它必須要代表機關或者使用機關的職稱那它在社交媒體的部分它並沒有這些東西所以它不代表是植物言論的發表 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
5144.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
5172.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
那第二個是他是政務人員他發表言論不需要機關同意這是那個辦法裡頭的規定那另外職務言論的定義在這個權益部所定的辦法裡頭是說所謂的職務言論是說你是跟這個機關的業務執掌有關那他這一部分他上次在社交媒體所講的是委員提名這一塊因為委員提名這一塊的執掌 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
5179.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
5190.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
陳代主委你不要再講那些規定了他很明顯他現在做NCC的委員你不要忘了這NCC委員相當於部長級耶 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
5192.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
5221.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
經過立法院裡面通過的他怎麼講話他可以關在他家裡面怎麼罵立法院我沒有意見公開上網就是公開的東西我管你幹什麼你現在除了他辭掉的隔天他去表示意見我沒有意見可是你現在還是在職還是待職你不要去拐彎抹角那個人事總處的有關公務人員之規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
5222.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
5249.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
這你不要說這個啦來日本他就是要探討問題對就對不對就不對我到現在認為NCC這個王振嘉委員他不可以這樣去指責因為跟事實有出入所以就變成公然的造謠那當然我也不會去指責現在有些部會的部長也是公然造謠你不要所以我一直在講獨立單位 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
5252.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
5280.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
專業單位千萬千萬不要有政治的連結我說實在的其他那些單位他是政府官他要怎麼做怎麼可以公然去造謠說我們不審這一點我很在意因為我都願意排啊我是在野黨啊我願意排啊你們為什麼都不表示意見我就感覺到很奇怪所以不要再跟我講這些今天我第二次去問 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
5281.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5309.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
你如果沒有妥善一個解決跟說明我第三次我還是會問問到什麼問到我這個召委卸任不然的話他就辭掉他辭掉我就不會問了所以主委這個我特別再次跟你叮嚀再次跟你叮嚀沒有一個說法跟這個你不要拿那個法令來跟我講很明顯他現在是現任NCC委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5310.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5326.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
相當於正物質請他不要忘了他要去拍馬屁是他家的事拍馬屁不能公然造謠以及汙衛立法院這是我的言者注意我再第二次已經跟你們講我希望 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5328.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5350.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
這個祖密你也要協助主委一下我跟你講你什麼時候跟我承認我什麼時候才不會問不然我會繼續問下去這個我特別跟主委你講好來接下來我們打詐當然有關啦打詐當然跟數位部啊跟警政署等等都有關但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5351.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5375.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
我們二類的電信也就是我提案這些東西也是二類確確實實現在是打詐的破口打詐不分黨派大家都支持你們從你們的預算從你們的徵購預算我坦白跟你講這個打詐還是我們黨團黃總召帶著我們去刑事警察局 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5376.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5399.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
還有去調查局等等這些把基層的聲音他們儀器的問題法規的問題等等所以一次把它修但是我們修了以後總是難免有遺之之憾也就是二類電信不納管我坦白跟你講這非常大的破口所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5400.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5427.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
我們才提出這個二類電信納管這個部分所以主委要拜託這個要把它正視為一個非常嚴重破口的要納入管理當然會感覺到很麻煩但是這些對打炸是有幫助的所以我要拜託我要拜託我們主委這個要把它正視這是非常重要的一個破口好那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5428.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5449.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
好另外我特別要提醒我們NCC不要到現在還是我們本縣有不同黨派的立委在那邊造謠說我們的預算你們的業務費被刪了只剩下一塊錢來 主委到底有沒有刪只剩下一塊錢有沒有嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5450.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5476.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
包招委 這個是在當時的記者會是當時我們是提醒說這個案子如果通過的話 會有這些後果沒有啦 你不要跟我講這個啦 主委有沒有三一塊錢嘛結果沒有嘛 對不對提案的人都已經撤掉嘛 是不是所以 我坦白跟你講 現在還有一個政務官 還有部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5478.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5490.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
還有立法委員還在造謠什麼3到1塊錢你們真的喜歡3到1塊錢嗎他的表意可能是凸顯說不要啦 主委你不要幫他們講話沒有就沒有 有就有 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5491.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5519.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
你們還剩下 還剩下四千多萬怎麼會只剩下一塊錢所以 這個不攻自破啦所以 主委 我才不跟你講這跟你 這不是你說的但是跟你有關當然我們就執行你啊所以這個部分好 接下來主委來 我們現在很窮什麼時候要送解凍案上來我願意排我用我的時間來排什麼時候要送上來 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5521.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5542.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
我們要盡快 我們內部會加緊作業我希望 我都公開的我是在野黨的召委 我都願意排了請問一下 你們還要研議什麼東西所以主委 別這樣一天到晚就要哭窮人家是很同情 不會啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5543.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5571.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
解凍案我願意排趕快送上來不要耽擱業務不要耽擱你們的業務所以我不希望在這個部分在這個部分主委連你都有政治性的這些業務推展這是不好的所以最後我還是真的要呼籲主委呼籲主委就是不要有政治就是用你的專業去把NCC做好至於委員什麼時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5573.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5598.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
當然這個是行政院長的權利啦但是你是單位現在代理負責人你還是有下請善打之責任啊你要讓行政院長知道你們很需求這些委員趕快補齊啊好不好所以這個部分你們那個完委員的事要盡快 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5599.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5605.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
你要給我答案 為什麼他會做這個事 好不好好 以上好 謝謝現在我們就請我們陳雪生委員他來執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5628.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5633.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
好,謝謝主席,謝謝趙偉是不是請陳主任委員主委我接續剛才林國正委員的發言黃正佳是你們貴會的委員嗎?是他可以隨便在外面發言嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5654.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5683.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
他也有他私領域的發言的自由是,他個人的身份嘛,是不是?是那你也可以用個人的身份到外面發言嗎?都不代表NCC啦你們所有的同仁都可以針對個人的意見來發言嗎?我也可以針對個人的意見發言嗎?可以這樣嗎?你們是個團體耶,是個機關耶要有所節制吧嚴厲的譴責他,我告訴你自己什麼身份啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5684.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5712.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
那你甩鍋給立法院立法院有時候不跟你審查你們所有行政院送來的委員NC委員的名單我們要到單全收嗎什麼叫審查嘛那就不要審查了嘛是不是怎麼監察委員怎麼考試委員不要審查還行使什麼同意權啊你送來幾個我們到單全收嘛是這樣嗎我想王正佳委員應該有點學問嘛是不是也念過一些書吧不然怎麼可能提名他做委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5715.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5741.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
這個分際應該很清楚嘛你怎麼可以講說個人的行為發言可以這樣嗎北一女中歐老師也是以個人的行為發言啊為什麼電視上每天在報他你們媒體有沒有報王振嘉委員多報啊每天報啊檢討吧怎麼可以這樣呢你這樣回答我們召委你可以這樣回答嗎個人的身份 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5742.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5771.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
我請問將來你們還有個人的身分要發言了嗎你關在廁所裡面你關在家裡面去講嘛誰管你啊是不是你是公眾媒體的人物欸你還管這個媒體的你這個單位還監督媒體的單位你怎麼可以這樣講你在委員的名單趕快送來嘛剛才也有委員問到你們現在錢夠了嗎還是不夠好那你現在為什麼不解凍 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5772.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5798.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
我們加緊作業加緊作業 錢夠嘛不是 錢還是不夠 如果扣除租金的話大概如果我們租金是在協商延後支付要不然如果是要付給他把扣留下來大概4月份就斷催了行政院有沒有叫你們不要解凍 有沒有沒有沒有我個人是沒有收到這個那有一位部長回答我們委員質詢的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5801.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5828.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
他說你們立法院要解凍我們哪一個項目請你把那個項目送來我們要送去給他他才來公函有這樣的怪事欸那你到處全省各地去先講說我們立法院不給你解凍不給你錢用那你不給你錢用你錢不夠你來申請解凍啊你解凍後要你解凍後什麼時候送來我請問我們盡快應該是盡快是多久 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5832.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5855.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
應該是最近的時間內應該可以送出今天本席在這邊質詢你是你應該今天回去吧,明天後天就送來了吧還儘快,那可見你有壓力嘛你有上級的壓力嗎我告訴你啦你六月份送來,我們解凍案解凍你一半啦是不是這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5857.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5885.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
因為你已經過了半年了嘛,你日子過得好好的,還是有飯吃沒有餓死啊是不是,我們擔心你餓死,所以你撿的話趕快送來啊謝謝委員盡快是多久?你回答我應該是,因為相關還有主計的那邊作業啦什麼作業?主計,因為解凍室跟倉庫是我們的會計主任有沒有來?沒有,沒有今天沒有來我是搞主計的啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5886.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5912.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
我是搞主計的啊你了解沒有我在主計處待過啊你這騙誰啊市長也好 機關首長也好 下令的話馬上解凍案弄出來我告訴你今天晚上日夜加班 明天早上就出來了啦你有壓力嘛 你坦白承認有沒有壓力你申請解凍有沒有壓力 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5914.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5928.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
我是沒有收到這方面行政院叫不讓你們解凍嘛,你懂了沒有不讓你們解凍好造謠嘛,各部位錢都不夠嘛,連廁所衛生紙都沒有嘛是不是這樣不要這樣騙人家啦,不好啦盡快什麼時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5933.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
5959.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
應該是這一兩個禮拜有機會好 跟你兩個禮拜有機會喔 機會在你手上不是在我的手上還有機會不是我們主席體系那邊我還要去確認一下什麼主席 主席來了沒有 明天請他到我辦公室來我來好好質問他 他有什麼困難主席一定講說 主委叫我不要送 一定是這樣講的 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
5960.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
5986.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
主委叫我不要送叫我不要加班,我想加班我這裡預算啦,各單位來申請錢我已經發不出去了主委叫我不要送,一定是這樣可以這樣搞嗎?不可以你不借題嘛,搞大罷免嘛你騙誰啊?騙鬼啊?王振嘉委員,我嚴厲的譴責他 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
5989.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
6016.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
我希望你們NEC的委員,位高權重,部長級的不要隨便對外面亂放話立法院沒有虧待你們,你行政院趕快把委員的名單送來我們審查我們到底要知道他是誰啊像這一種委員,黃宗嘉這種委員你說他偏藍還偏綠還是中綠,還超然獨立,他絕對不獨立我告訴你 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
6017.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
6041.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
這個委員絕對不獨立你將來叫他再送來好了如果以後有他的名單我告訴你,本人第一個表示反對我告訴你今天是審查國家通訊傳播委員會電信管理業務規章收費的標準等條文第二個是審查電信管理法第五條、第八條還有七十九條修正條文的草案 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
6045.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
6062.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
NCC發言人叫什麼黃文哲先生嘛有開了例行的記者會現前的法律是確定將收費750塊嘛是不是但回應民意咧 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
6063.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
6086.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
回憶民意啊,因為民意有反彈了嘛所以暫緩進行750塊收費儀式問題是你前面已經收了一部分啊我沒有退費你收的部分是完全全部退費還是什麼?全退全退啊?是那你們講說未來的價格只會低不會高啊?是不是?我們會朝主流民意方向來檢討不過你們強調說 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
6093.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
6110.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
收費的目的是為了要防堵代購業者大量的貸貨嘛是不是並沒有要針對一般自用的民眾進行收費但因為涉及到法律的問題如果不修改法令會請業務處召集實務界的專家學者 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
6116.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
6143.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
如果要收費的話要透過委員會來討論嘛是不是這樣對就是要修改收費管理辦法必須要好我有幾個建議啦請妥適的研議收費標準跟對象不要增加老闆爺的負擔好不好是好沒問題第二個是盡速完成今年度已經徵收民眾的退費措施好不好你再趕快做好不好好沒問題我們在進行中第三個是針對僅具備藍芽功能的設備 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
6145.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
6168.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
你要不要收費來進行檢討都一併納入藍芽屬於低功率,屬於自然的範圍內因為無人機這些射頻怎麼都會干擾嘛對不對是都會做干擾,這個沒問題吧我們都會,沒問題我們會納入一併考量好那麼另外台馬第二條第三條的海嵐已經修復完成了 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
6169.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
6198.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
那麼雖然我上次質詢,因為中華電信出的錢嘛,跟速發部跟你們NCC是沒有關係的不過將來這已經是一個重要的基礎設施了所以速發部持續,我希望它能夠補助個1.5億或是2億好不好,如果有預算的話長遠福島速發部應該會審做另外那個第四條海岸現在什麼時候要完成 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
6198.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
6225.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
預計明年六月明年六月?你們進度掌握了沒有?我們持續都有跟中華電信在聯繫,目前看起來應該是進度掌握當中目前進度可以?可以另外今天中華電信沒有派人來嗎?沒有列席?沒有沒有你告訴中華電信,我們在地的用人很重要你看最近他招考一批人,我不曉得中華電信會不會來了,不過請你轉告 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
6229.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
6254.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
我們那裡缺一個人,他就招考一個招考一個,這個人在哪裡?在舉光好了,比如在舉光很偏遠的一個島錄取了,他不來不來,然後重新再來招攬人員那一考試又是兩三個月、三四個月那我們沒有人,因為那種小地方可能只有一個同仁或者兩個同仁 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
6254.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
6275.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
那你的同仁沒有補的話,那要從馬祖這邊公司這邊派人去支援嘛,去支援的話相對影響到這邊的業務那我說招考的時候,我希望因為什麼?因為台灣的青年鄉親去考考了以後覺得太遠,他不想去啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
6276.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
6283.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
那馬祖仁那就不會啦所以我希望就是說中華電信在地化的部分已經做得很好了 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
6286.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
6314.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
那我希望呢,長此以往,希望繼續我們在地的青年優先能夠錄取好,我們一定轉達但是你不要錄取一個啊你起碼來個備取,備取弄個兩三個嘛你備取弄個兩三個的話,第一個不來的話,第二個可以補啊你就不用再考了嘛你一直考一直考是不是,人員一直沒辦法到期好不好,這一點很重要不用理我們一定轉達主委我憑良心講齁,你們預算被刪了一半 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
6315.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
6343.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
你們自己要檢討,你們打仗是不是打得非常的好那麼多同仁在這邊我對NCC非常友善的在交通委員會裡面我對NCC是最友善的那主委你也到我那邊去過啦我也曉得你的意思我也很想幫你的忙我不只在黨團裡面幫你忙,我也希望跟民眾黨這邊、國城召委這邊,我也跟他們溝通所以你解凍案我們很善意的 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
6344.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
6373.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
你錢不夠用趕快送來嘛你不是對外去放話啊你人不夠你趕快把名單送來嘛你錢不夠趕快把解凍案送來嘛我們如果不同意你解凍,那是我們的問題嘛你怎麼可以把解凍當作刪除勒好不好我想你這解凍案盡快送來好不好,希望你兩個禮拜之內送來因為你不要把責任推給主計人員 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
6374.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
6394.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
我自己本身是主計人員,我現在退休還可以領主計人員的退休分我還可以領,我服務公職40年40年我名義代表、縣長、立法委員這些除外,我自己本身有我有這個證照,有會計審計的證照的人所以你這一部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
6396.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
6422.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
我希望這個主委還是加油了好不好好謝謝謝謝好謝謝我們陳雪生委員那現在請林郡縣委員執行好感謝主席本席邀請我們NCC代主委好陳代主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
6429.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
6442.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
委員長主委長因為剛剛在講預算的問題喔主委你要講清楚啦你延期金沒有辦法運作不是凍結啦是刪除的問題啦對不對對 刪了你的業務費你的單位業務費7517萬你被刪除多少4000多萬嘛刪掉將近55%對不對你剩下3354萬啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
6455.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
6485.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
你的房租一年要兩千五百六十二萬存三千三百五十萬啦儲水一天兩千五百六十萬啦你大概剩下八百萬啦你一個月的業務費大概要四百多萬啦所以NCC不是凍結的問題啦你趕快來 趕快送來解凍啦如果我們在野黨的委員要幫忙那很好啦但你凍結只有多少錢你只有凍結四百多萬嘛十趴而已嘛對 業務費凍結給你解凍你要多活一個月啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6486.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6510.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
你現在4月你就沒錢了 對不對如果按照你目前可動資的預算對 如果房租你4月沒錢 好 趕快解凍啦 活到5月啦那6月 6月怎麼辦 6月以後咧還不是沒錢 重點在刪除50%啦哪一個單位可以讓你刪50%還能活的哪一個個人 你的家庭 你一半的收入給你砍掉你的生活不受影響的 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6511.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6537.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
那就不可能嘛 你們要跟我清楚但是要解凍好趕快來解凍 多活一個月也好啦好像到五月 五月過後再想辦法你剛說你怎麼解決 請房東先不要再收房租喔延後租 延後收 你看所以我們立法院草野刪預算刪到房東要付出代價女兒拜託看看啦 女兒你們出頭要拜託一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6538.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6562.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
好 我要回來講今天我們大家要關心的第一個就是7.5的問題嘛是這7.5現在我想NCC政策轉向很清楚你現在是不要收嘛對 現在是停徵狀態但目前是停徵狀態嘛不過因為你去年給他通過這個收費的辦法 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6564.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6587.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
這是個行政命令嘛對 行政命令 法規命令也就是說如果依NCC自己公佈的行政命令 現在要收期150但是因為外界大家反對嘛所以NCC你現在是跟財政部談好了財政部有同意嘛對 用規範法的方式去停政就停政 目前是停政狀態嘛那你要把這個問題解決就是你要把你那個行政命令給拿掉 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6589.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6604.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
對不對 要修改嘛對 把它修改那你就把它修改成不收這筆錢嘛對 如果不收的話就是要把原來收費這個項目要改掉你現在命令要改掉那你現在能不能改現在命令現在沒有辦法不能嘛 因為你沒有委員嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6605.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6633.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
那沒有委員的話我們只能先用停徵那我們希望未來的時間朝野能夠有一個共識希望能夠解決NCC目前沒有委員的這種狀態不管用什麼方式但是在新的NCC的委員產生以前在還沒有修改目前規定要收費的行政命令的狀態下我們只能持續不斷的停徵是不是這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6635.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6652.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
對 目前的情況是這樣這個大概是行政單位還有朝野的共識所以目前就繼續的停政一直到你把這個辦法修改完沒錯那修改之前的前提條件就是NCC要委員產生不過還有一個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6654.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6676.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
因為畢竟這個會產生費用啦因為我就看一下你這個二級電信管制設平器材的輸入案件越來越多啦因為現在網路大家都在忙碌買東西啦我看從兩年前的一年兩萬兩千九百多件現在到四萬件了啦那四萬個piece你一定需要一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6679.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6694.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
行政支出嘛 你不要再去檢查 第二你現在又沒有業務費了 還要用抬一半而已第二 你如果不想讓人家收這筆錢 那你NCC如何來解決這些案量 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6696.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6712.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
來我們這邊是加強用引入這個類AI的方式對你要用類AI啦為什麼我們要給他收750因為他目前的檢查其實比較落後啦你都要請人工啦我調查一下大概要請五個到六個你才能處理這麼多件 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6714.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6740.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
這些人在幹嘛 只是在對照他的規格啦還有說明書啦 看有符合沒嘛還有確診書確診書啦 其實都需要用人的眼睛去對啦基本上等於是都靠人力勞力所以你才需要去給人家收集白虎嘛其實你只要提高力的那個效率啦你用導入AI 類AI的那個技術 你可以節省這些人力 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6741.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6770.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
其實你就不用想這麼多這樣你必須要徹底解決辦法也請委員支持我們明年會編這個預算我們也會支持啦當然你謝謝委員那也希望也要跟那個我們再一黨立委溝通一下啦開始把你抬這樣喔你的單位根本沒辦法運作嘛什麼靠那個 靠人抬一半我都不想讓你那你五月以後怎麼辦啦好 再來另外今天大家討論的另外一點喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6771.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6783.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
就是關於我們目前在網路上一些像那個SAP的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6786.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6807.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
就是如果我們政府已經把它給封鎖的網站那很多人會利用這些ISB或者是MVNO這些管制方法其實最主要就是你那個電信管理法修法你把它修掉二類電信都不用管制了你當時是因為說產業變化很快幹嘛但是後來確實產生一些問題了 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6812.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6821.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
你現在二類電線的問題現在看起來國衛這邊是希望你們要趕快納管否則會有一些失控的狀態那你現在看法呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6823.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6851.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
就是村局委員這張簡報所提示的MVM這塊我們目前在執法納管那如果母法也拉上母法裡頭明文列在那邊我們是尊重也支持啦那ISB我們內部討論本來也本來就是有在支持但是現在要提出代表NCC的條文這邊現在是有困難就是委員會的關係但是我們目前的階段的內部幕僚作業都支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6853.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6872.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
對 那其實應該要有ECC的版本啦因為今天都是立委的版本嘛我也有連署本黨宗教兵委員的版本就是我們要管制二類電信還有ISB嘛那至於要怎麼管我想你行政單位你應該負責任的話 你應該也提出你的版本來啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6873.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6897.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
我們內部都有研議但是要提出代表機關出去的就是現在卡在這個一般的正常程序SOP必須要委員會一通過的目前是比較有這個方面的挑戰好另外你所謂的二類電信你現在目前呢就是你電信管理法修法又改為自願登記制嘛是不是這樣是 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6899.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6927.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
那也跟委員報告原來的電信法下的二類電信它範圍很廣包括這邊所講的MVMISP還有包括其他的一些跟資訊服務很接近的一些服務那比方說是語音會議語言會議服務視訊會議服務這些都變成APP了所以那些納管會比較有困難也會影響這個ICT產業但是你所謂的志願登記制現在有幾家來登記 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6929.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6952.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
ISP的部分目前有六十五家登記有六十五家來登記是什麼沒有啦 六十幾家啦全部六十幾家 六十幾家都有來登記嗎他原來 但是有些是他結束營業不收但是電信房實際是有一百多家啦 現在是有六十幾家但是你知道有六十幾家嘛對 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6954.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
6980.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
那實際上他們目前是在沒有管制的狀態下嗎有一些黑數但是有來登記的是六十幾家沒有來登記的我們是有黑數的部分如果比照電信法實際當然會有一些落差但是有些是因為他經營不足所以你要登記大概六成五成嘛那其他的黑數怎麼辦所以你採用志願登記之後實際上看起來你沒有辦法落實你的管理 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
6982.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
7007.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
那因為社會也發生很多的事件啊所以現在才希望啊在NCC在這方面的管制應該要重演啊對所以這塊我們也是支持ISAP要跟那個那如果行政單位跟內委這邊跟國會這邊大概都有共識的話那這個部分的話就是如何管的問題啊我想管制二類電線管制ISAP這個應該是大家有大家你們也都同意嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
7009.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
7035.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
ISB是二類定性裡頭的一部分但是跟打炸相對比較有關聯這邊我們是支持好謝謝主委謝謝主席謝謝委員好謝謝我們寧靜縣委員特別跟大會報告也就是我們稍等一下到習滬葵委員執行完畢我們就休息十分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
7037.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
7047.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
那現在請何欣淳委員執行好 謝謝 謝謝趙偉我們是請主委好 陳代主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
7056.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
7075.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
主委好我今天也是在關心這個ISP的問題那個納管的問題那我針對這個中嘉賓委員的這個提案版本我自己本身有提出一個修正動議那本檔很多委員都有連署那等一下我們可以在討論的時候再好好的來討論但是呢首先我想為什麼我會針對這個ISP要納管 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
7082.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
7091.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
因為創意私房這個案子我想引起軒然大波而且國民大家深惡痛絕覺得是罪無可赦所以我們很多的民間團體包括家長包括所有的國人都認為這個涉及到兒少性剝削的犯罪的網站 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
7105.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
7116.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
應該立即要限制接取那上次我們在去年也有提出這個兒少性剝削防治條例的修正我自己也有提出修法的版本在提高這個刑期 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
7118.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
7140.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
那我們呢除了在法的部分修法提高他的犯罪的這個刑期之外最重要的是當事情的發生之後被告發之後能不能在這個兒少的性影像的即時處理斷網限制接取這個是最重要最重要的喔那NCC在這個部分呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
7141.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
7163.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
必須要主動而且要立即的有態度有立場而且呢能夠呢有方法來遏止來限制這些的所謂的惡意違法的網站那所以我只是請問一下陳代主委未來如果再發生類似像創意私房網站我們NCC第一時間可以直接封網嗎我為什麼會問這個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
7166.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
7188.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
是在於媒體也說了雖然這個創意私訪已經遭封網但是仍有漏洞可瀏覽這個漏洞其實就跟我們今天在談的ISP是有關係的我們在現行可以提供民眾上網服務的業者你們現在在電信管理法裡面第一類的電信三大電信業者是以及納管強制對不對對 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
7191.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
7209.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
那第二類電信你剛剛回答其他委員像是我們平常有線電視公司在接一般我們個人家庭的一個用戶也好或者是HiNet或是SoNet等等這些所謂的這個網路的一個服務業者上網民眾上網服務的這個業者 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
7212.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
7234.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
那我們聽剛剛主委說的 我們現在是要求他自律 然後主動來登記那你說去年有發函給所有的ISP業者 請他們加入自律平台那你剛剛回答 我如果聽得沒錯的話 你說有100多家裡面 現在有60幾家有加入 對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
7235.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
7245.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
有來登記的也有營業的都有加入DNSRPC有來登記的都有加入那沒來登記的就是黑數你剛剛講承認有黑數嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
7247.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
7266.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
黑數是指沒有來登記的對啊對啊對啊那所以我現在聽得很模糊從剛剛其他委員問你可不可以再給我精準的數字啊你說有來登記的到底有多少家那你認為的黑數沒來登記的到底有多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
7269.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
7292.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
根據電信法轉軌過渡期間110年那時候有二類ISP有150幾家那到了現在114年有60多家所以這個過程裡頭大概落差了90家左右90家左右不代表他每一家現在都還在營業那你有沒有掌握 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
7293.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
7311.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
不代表他現在正在營業那你有沒有掌握說在有落差的90幾家到底是哪幾家有在營業哪幾家沒有我們大家盤點了嗎我們大家只有掌握就是剛剛委員說的我們在去年發函給這些ISP業不管他有來登記沒來登記我們請他要加入DSRPG那時候我們有進一步的去過濾去 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
7312.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
7326.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
如果你有掌握的話那為什麼你今天回答委員都是150多家60多家那到底如果你有盤點你有掌握的話你去年就發函了那到底是幾家 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
7328.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
7343.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
因為沒有來登記的我無法掌控那就是黑數嘛所以你剛剛跟我說你要請他們來登記那你有掌握但是沒有來登記的你又沒有辦法盤點你沒有辦法盤查那到底有幾家是黑數我們是依據說他當年電信法實際有來登記我們一樣放在給他請他陳太祖偉是 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
7347.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
7373.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
我是希望啦我們NCC應該主動主動主動我講三次因為很重要你可不可以主動的去盤點能夠有效的掌握到底有到目前為止有多少家那有多少家是有來登記的沒有登記的裡面有多少家是還在營業但是他卻沒有來登記為什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
7376.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
7378.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
那有多少家是已經沒有在營業了 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
7380.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
7406.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
我為什麼需要你給我精準的掌握數字因為我們為什麼在這一次今天要談這個不管是兒少的保護或者是等一下我要講的防詐騙我們如果連基本的資料都沒有辦法掌握我們連這個所謂的漏洞或是黑素的業者都沒有辦法掌握那我們如何告訴國人說 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
7407.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
7430.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
如果有事情發生我第一時間我就知道去哪裡封網抱歉跟委員報告剛剛同仁給我最新資料是有掌握的是有掌握的要講清楚啊總共216家已登記65家未登記150家還有一家是中華電信那他是綜合業務大概是這樣子對嘛那你自己聽看看你的數字跟剛剛 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
7432.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
7457.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
跟林俊憲委員講的數字 你看落差有多大登記的部分是一樣的登記的部分是一樣 那沒有登記的部分就不一樣啊你講的很籠統啊那好 沒有登記的這150幾家 150家那你又要如何的去有效的掌握所以為什麼要提修法 你現在叫做自律啦自律就是沒有強制性啦沒有強制性你就是沒有辦法掌握啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
7458.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
7481.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
這個我覺得你必須要在立場上跟大家講清楚啦不然國人會對我們NCC啊這個所謂的公權力啊是沒有信心的你知道嗎如果再發生類似的這樣子的一個創意私房的網站我們如何告訴國人說我NCC可以第一時間就直接掌握就直接封網因為你根本剛剛的回答告訴我們你沒有掌握嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
7487.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
7516.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
所以我要拜託主委我為什麼會談這件事情我一直在強調保障兒少的權益是全國人民的共識那NCC在兒少的傳播這個網路的一個權益的一個政策裡面你知道我現在google到的你們的網站上面所有兒少通訊傳播權益的政策白皮書還停留在2011年就是呢速發布還沒有成立的時候那當然你們在去年2024有提出一個初稿 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
7517.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
7543.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
叫做網際網路傳播政策白皮書那三件事平台自律、部會協力、共識治理那在你們提出的這個政策白皮書的初稿裡面也有提到兒少關鍵字60次但是呢雖然你提了兒少提了60次但是我們還是看不出來到底我們在 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7544.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7551.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
網路的這個相關的治理政策裡面為了守護保護兒少我們到底要怎麼做 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7554.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7580.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
這塊剛剛委員所提到這個白皮書是有是兩個白皮書我們最新的是網際網路這一塊我們已經完成了那個專業諮詢那接下來要進行這公聽會那裡頭涉及到兒童的部分我們大概是大概是跟委員這邊所提示的一樣我們必須就是兩方面業者端平台端他的那個專業的培力包括還有民眾端素養的這邊的宣導教育這邊我們都是從這兩方面兩端來進行處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7582.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7609.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
什麼時候可以訂稿你們的這個政策白皮書經過專家還要經過公聽會那什麼時候要開公聽會那公聽會開完之後呢大概什麼時候可以告訴我們這一個初稿是可以訂稿是你們的政策白皮書那你們在這個政策白皮書裡面到底可以告訴國人如何具體的在網路的相關的這個治理裡面你們是可以守護兒少的安全 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7610.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7628.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
是的 因為公民會大概是4月份會辦理完成辦理完成之後 照過往這個更久以前這個100年這個兒少政策白皮書是要上委員會議那這邊我們會經過那個程序但是完成的初稿 上委員會之前初稿委員會寫一個報告給跟委員報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7631.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7654.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
所以呢所以就是應該是公聽會完之後內部在現有的資議會議來收斂以後會有一個版本但是要真正比照以前那個兒少通訊傳播權益白皮書那個還要上委員會議所以你的意思是說最後的final的定稿的版本你現在可能還沒有辦法說一個時間出來是因為委員會還沒有辦法組成委員人數不夠是 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7656.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7677.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
那要講清楚啊所以我們也呼籲大家或者是在野黨各黨派大家一起支持我們NCC的委員那委員人數能夠到達法定的一個這個名額的時候那都到位的時候那很多相關NCC的業務都能夠推動那包括這個我們強調的 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7679.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7704.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
網際網路的傳播政策白皮書裡面到底對於兒少安全的保護的具體的一個方向跟措施跟建議我們才能夠有最後的一個定稿那也才能夠讓NCC在這個領域裡面趕快的往前推趕快的做讓國人能夠信任讓孩子的網路上的兒少的安全可以獲得保障不是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7705.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7732.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
是是啊那請書面報告給我一份好不好好謝謝好謝謝委員好謝謝我們何新淳委員的執行現在請習富凱委員執行習富凱執行完畢我們就休息10分鐘謝謝召委有請我們陳代理主委好陳代理主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
7739.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
7758.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
主委長我想剛剛有提到很多關於NCC業務的問題我想在處理業務之前NCC還是要先自救因為主委之前有提過我們目前的業務費預算今天是4月2號有可能這個月就要斷催了到底會不會斷催 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
7760.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
7769.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
我們現在如果是把我們的土地租金扣掉的話4月份一定會斷槌那我們現在是跟地主來協商延後支付 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
7771.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
7799.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
現在我們地主是郵政協會嗎?他們有同意嗎?還在協商當中因為他們也有他們的壓力他們必須要對他們的董監事負責聽說我們也有去詢問相關的單位有在做其他的一個考量我們有跟類似營建署說有沒有其他辦公地點可以供我們搬家他們盤點結果初步是說沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
7801.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
7814.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
你們現在連未來辦公室可能何去何從都不曉得以後怎麼辦業務就是原則上我們希望說跟地主協商跟運動協會協商然後先把眼前的難關渡過這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
7816.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
7841.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
主委我想那個NCC是我們國家很重要的一個機關那當然我們剛剛我們何偉銘在講這個你們目前委員的人數也不夠乾脆工作沒辦法那甚至預算也沒辦法解凍所以在這邊我們也要拜託拜託我們林國成召委這個預算趕快來解凍不然這個未來可能沒辦公室大家都要居家辦公不然這要怎麼辦對我目前 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
7842.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
7857.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
漁務費部分凍結是一小部分主要是剩餘的數額不夠多的部分這個還是我們要持續來努力啦好主委那我想最近發生這個泰緬地震的時候有一個很嚴重的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
7858.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
7880.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
就是我們泰緬這邊的這個民眾有反映到泰國政府花了大錢建置的一個檢訊系統這個預警系統很重要但是並沒有發揮應有的一個作用那我想NCC是我們台灣這個主管防災警的一個訊息的一個主管機關那過去我們都會接到一些相關的一些資訊那這部分我們目前國內的運作機制有沒有問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
7882.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
7907.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
我們因為台灣大概每年都會汛期或颱風期間都會有這些做壓力測試所以三大業者的網路的韌性大致都保持一定程度那他們主要的網路也包括交換中心包括河網那邊大概也列屬在關鍵基礎設施那這邊有數位部的協力也加強他的那個風險管控 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
7907.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
7918.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
防護演練等等所以基本上是任性上應該我們都會持續精進目前大致都還符合一般民眾的期待 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
7919.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
7939.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
主委我想比較應該因為我們是這個我們是地震這個頻率很高而且馬上這個七八月以後就是颱風季節那所以因為我們目前來講我們地震還有包含颱風這些相關的防汛的一個訊息多久可以傳到這個民眾的手機裡面有沒有一個SOP的一個機制 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
7941.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
7956.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
PWS這塊災防告解那一塊如果是國家級的話要看他所在區域那如果一般通信他是電磁波發射那都很快像上次地震大概幾乎是零時差的就傳到該收到PWS檢訊的 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
7959.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
7986.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
的民眾的手上基本上這些都是他因為哪些區域要發布是那個相對的那個頭端那邊的相關機關去負責的比方說地震或者颱風那是氣象署他會把需求提供給這個相關的單位我們NCC這邊負責是傳輸從CBC傳到民眾的手機端這邊但是我們還是要掌握啦是是 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
7986.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
8009.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
那我還是要提醒主委去年我們0403地震的時候總共有172個基地台受到影響那因為基地台如果受到影響也沒辦法發送簡訊這是一個很嚴重的問題那針對這樣一個狀況NCC是不是有做一個基地台的一個演練甚至一個備援電力的一個機制甚至搶修能力的一個處理是不是有做這樣一個規劃 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
8011.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
8034.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
都有 比方說重要的偏鄉或哪些重要據點我們大概都會要求高抗災或者說相對它必須要一個儲電設備起碼72小時這種備用電源用有機的方式當作它發電設備提供它電源這一塊都有歷年下來都有持續在要求精進主委那平常我們大概幾個月會去做這樣一個警示 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
8036.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
8065.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
至於演練的話PWS演練會有定期有些是包括整個系統備援南端北端這些的備援都有演練其他的local地區的測試有時看地方政府的需要我們都每季之類的都會有定期在演練這個我們還是要拜託主委這個督促我們相關的單位我們針對這個國家通訊建設部分一定還是要落實不能這個有發生一個意外的狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
8066.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
8080.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
是我們都會要求業者每年都要辦理演練好所以那我想有一個比較政治性的問題就是最近針對這個政論節目檢舉的案件去年一整年總共發生了大概1000多件的一個檢舉案件其中 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
8081.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
8109.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
去年的第四季我們NCC收到的檢舉數量將近六百件進一步來分析齁其中有三百五十四件是屬於政論性的談話節目那其中第一名是三百零八件就是年代新聞的雅琴看世界那這個部分我想這個雅琴看世界也被我們在野黨的委員提出來要求她要關台齁那這個部分主委怎麼看待這個事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
8110.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
8132.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
我可不可以請我們處長來補充一下對那個300多件是針對同一集的節目那這同一集節目我們已經提節目諮詢會來討論了那討論之後我們要就是要準備要進我們的委員會做最後的決定那最後決定究竟會怎麼處理這會看我們最後委員會的決定 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
8134.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
8156.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
主委處長我還是要提醒一下根據我們NCC接到的檢舉案件來看第一劑183件第二劑有362件第三劑276件到第四劑變成598件那有沒有人是刻意在惡意的檢舉這部分我們有沒有做怎樣的一個不成比例的一個分析 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
8157.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
8172.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
有些是同個案件然後很多人好像報復性檢舉這邊有很多也是他本身權益的部分這邊類型上大概都會有一些整理我們不會 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
8173.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
8200.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
究竟民眾他的動機是什麼我們不會去研析但是我們會就看他的申訴的內容去看是不是有涉及那他們目前申訴內容是不是大同小異這不一定這看還是要看情況但是剛剛有提到的就是某一個節目他確實在今年的第四年第四季他是三百多件好那因為現在我們ACC的委員不夠嘛那能不能開發 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
8204.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
8215.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
因為要考量這個多元性還有過往的行政管理NCC這些行政管理會自我拘束以往這種涉及電視媒體的這些裁罰大概都要經過委員會議所以目前是沒辦法做了 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
8216.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
8232.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
那我們是不是有把這個案件可以送到這個有我們專家學者公民團體跟我們相關的實務工作者組成的一個廣播電視節目的廣告諮詢會議來做審查有這個機制嗎?有,目前能走到最遠的距離就是走到這個諮詢會議目前 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
8234.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
8256.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
那我們會公布最後的這個資訊結果嗎資訊結果是公務委員會的參考所以他是內部意見做成前的一些意見根據政府資訊公開法根據各自法根據行程序法這些都是屬於內部資訊不會對外公布這個還是要主委還是要妥善處理啦是那最後針對我想今天我們很多委員都提到針對這個去年引起爭議這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
8258.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
8276.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
我們這個民眾從國外網站進口兩部以下自由手機或藍牙耳機這個被收750塊審查費的案子那我們後來局議是暫緩嗎對我們現在是停政狀態那我們會期待一年內停政期間來做好法規的修正主委有沒有信心這一年能不能把這個案子處理好 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
8276.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
8299.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
那我們會朝著方向努力但是因為涉及到委員會來拍板那如果沒有的話我們會有想到說會請財政部來繼續再展現這個停政的期限這個還是會引起很多這個民眾的一個不好的一個印象主要是把它當做一件很重要的事情來做處理是好謝謝謝謝委員好謝謝習副委員好我們現在休息十分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
8315.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
8328.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
是不是群打結束之後群打結束之後就說完畢 完畢 完畢人家也是人家也是人家也是平常他那個網案他都沒有發現在說他太簡單了 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
8341.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
8346.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
挖掘層的存在是對的,那我來試試看吧,試試看吧,我來試試看吧,我來試試看吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
8372.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
8376.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
謝謝大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
8406.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
8407.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
嗯嗯 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
8419.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
8436.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
響鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
8438.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
8442.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
這間餐廳的餐廳是一間餐廳的中間餐廳。 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
8466.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
8466.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
好 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
8493.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
8493.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
謝謝大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
8522.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
8524.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
再給他穿多一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
8537.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
8538.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
好嘞。 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
8579.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
8582.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
那我 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
8596.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
8604.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
這間餐廳的餐廳是一間餐廳的一間餐廳 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
8625.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
8625.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
我沒有堅持,我只是... |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
9928.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
9952.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
好各位請就座好各位請就座好現在我們請蔡七章副院長執行謝謝主席請陳代理主委好陳代理主委你好 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
9954.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
9970.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
主委這個我想早上很多委員也都提了有關這個自用低功率射頻器材審查費那我想這個問題從我們這個第一次公告民眾反應很大 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
9971.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
9993.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
那要收費的這個事情,我想NCC也都從善如流啦你們也發現這個不可以,這個民怨其實很多所以你們也決定在今天的這個送交立法院要審查的這個辦法當中啊你們也直接跟財政部溝通750塊就停政一年 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
9995.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
10022.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
那其實大家的主張都一樣啦這不只應該停政一年啦這個應該就是不要收費了啦那所以呢這個我們有提了一個案子嘛除了這個這一件事情除了這一個所謂這個750塊的收費這個之外其他的大家意見並不大所以這一個在被查上面我們就不能因為意見我們你也同意我們嘛但是因為公告當時就是已經750了 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
10024.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
10048.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
所以呢這個這一點這一個就你們回去修改啦那也給你們一段時間去把它調整去把這一條這個收費表格當中的這一項把它做一個修正其他的我想大家意見並不大大家都很有共識那這個是第一個主委你的看法怎麼樣謝謝委員這個方向是我們會遵照的方向來處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
10050.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
10074.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
好那另外今天其他的這個法令包括主要都集中在電信管理法的這個修法那電信管理法修法我想背後其實的重點他還是放在這個詐騙的房子主委你同意嗎 同意好那你要不要簡單跟本席說明一下對於今天的修法從第五條 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
10076.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
10089.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
第五條第八條之一第七十九條第七十五條第四十條這些相關條文你總結來看這些修法對於打炸的房子在NCC的態度是怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
10090.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
10113.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
是謝謝委員那這次五個提案裡頭規納起來有幾個重點第一個涉及打造的KYC的這一部分因為在打造條例裡頭已經有規定了那也可能是因為提案之初是在打造條例公布之前所提的那這一塊因為已經在打造條例裡頭有規範而且我們自己的執法電信事業用戶號碼 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
10114.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
10134.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
管理辦法裡頭也有規範所以這一塊我們是建議說要求業者KYC這一塊是建議說可以不用再增列重複的不用再改啦就已經原來其他法規裡面已經有規範了有處理了那等於是重複修正嘛所以你的意思說第一個重複的不要啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
10135.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
10162.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
那另外沒有漏接企業部分,比方說通保法那邊那因為也是通保法去年七月底公布修正公布之後那一塊的提案的要求部分其實在通保法裡頭都已經律定了那一塊也是可以不用重複在電信管理法裡頭來規定這是第二個沒有漏接企業部分那也是建議那一塊就不用再修了不用再增修好,那其他的部分呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
10163.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
10182.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
其他的部分大概是圍繞比方說IASP跟IASP其實是連帶講DSRPG其實要處理DSRPG其實就處理IASP就可以了IASP我們的立場在報告裡頭也有呈現我們是持正面支持的 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
10183.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
10209.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
那另外這個號碼比方說MVMO批發轉售這一塊我們現在是規定在執法裡頭那委員提案是說把拉到母法拉到法律的位階這個我們也贊同這兩塊我們也贊同但是IASP那一塊因為它的月子規模動態範圍太大了我們會建議說需要有相關的一個層級化的義務的一些方式來納管 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
10210.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
10233.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
會比較適切那大概我們目前的初步立場是這樣子基本上就是注意ISP應該是對應打造甚至於說打造以外的議題比方說關切的像一些涉及到衛福部的相關的一些不當的影像的那些散布那些都會有一些效果那這邊我們也是支持好 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
10234.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
10255.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
這個我想我剛剛聽完主委講的話,基本上我都同意啦第一個部分我想我在這個台上,今天抒發部也在啦這個本席認為我已經多次給抒發部很大的壓力甚至我也跟部長講,你抒發部的保證,那位要借的股,只有一個人最重要的工作,就是打賬 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
10256.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
10277.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
所以一樣的道理我今天啦雖然這個今天書法部也是列席啦但主角在你嘛因為電信管理這個法規在NCC的身上本席立場還是一致啦有關打詐的哪怕打詐的訂了這個法規效果只有一點點哪怕只有一點點本席都支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
10278.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
10306.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
就我們就能夠快步前進的用跑的我們就用跑的但跑不了用走的我們也要用爬的都給他爬到打炸的那個山頭去啦這是本席今天的這個很重要的立場那我也同意法令有規定像通報法等等法規已經修過有規定的如果不重複的原則這個我原則上接受但是譬如說對於這個ISP業者的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
10307.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
10332.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
我知道主委的意思是這個事情要有一些協定要有一些找大家來訂定怎麼去處理效果會最好啦對 要細緻化的一些處理對 這我同意啦但是我的意思就是說打炸的法規就是對於這個電信管理法裡面今天的修法裡面這個我們有幾個委員同仁也提了版本 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
10333.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
10357.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
也提了這個修正動議啦 修正現在的這個版本有修正那本席還是認為打詐這個不能手軟 該過的就讓他過該通過就讓他 但是要怎麼通過是最有效這個是可能本席跟其他政黨的委員或許意見不完全一致但是我想大家希望去做好打詐這個工作 目標是很清楚的 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
10358.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
10383.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
所以有一些版本我同意有一些是可以不用修是因為別的地方已經有了你重複修一次也沒什麼意義第二個部分效果有限我們怎麼讓它效果提升那這可能委員的意見會不一樣那所以我們也有我們也共同提了一個版本希望待會在如果要進行這個條文的討論的時候我們會把我們的修正條文再做一個說明那總而言之就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
10385.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
10410.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
那個NCC也好 抒發部也好 法務部也好我想我們面對打詐的議題啊我們沒有任何妥協的空間啦我們一定要全力去做這個是老百姓心中最care 最關心 也最痛的部分所以我們一起努力啦好 謝謝 謝委員謝謝好 謝謝我們蔡其昌副院長接下來我們陳樹葉委員執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
10421.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
10428.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
謝謝主席 請主席邀請抒發部林次長還有NCC代理主好 抒發部林次長還有我們陳代主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
10438.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
10451.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
林次長還有陳代理主委早安那今天委員會排審就是有關電信管理法修正草案的一個詢問跟處理那我想應該就是很多委員都是在關心就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
10452.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
10481.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
針對目前就是社會這個民眾期待的就是有關打詐或者是說一些就是暗黑的這個網站怎樣去防堵這個部分大家都非常的一個關注那可能就是目前法令還有未就是沒有完善的一個地方那就像舉這個創意私房這個案子來看就是說在去年被查獲之後那之後呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
10482.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
10498.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
仍然应该当时我们这个数码部就有执行这个停止解析这样子的一个机制嘛可是事后还有这个受害者反映就是说被害人的家属有反映说这个性影像还是在流窜就是还是有人可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
10499.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
10528.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
透過不曉得什麼方式可以去瀏覽所以這個就是一個很大的一個漏洞所以在這邊當時有這樣子的情形發生的時候我們也看到新聞報導就是我們速發部也有回應說會持續精進停止解析的一個機制那我想就是說從那個時候到現在也一年了那我想請問速發部就是說這個精進的部分你們有哪些措施那目前進度如何是不是可以簡單說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
10528.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
10551.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
OK 關於這部分像是那個創意私房這樣的網站那我們的做法就是主要是靠著那個所謂的DNS RPZ這個機制我們想辦法降低這些不良的網站的觸及率那其中一個很大的關鍵也是現在還有一些漏洞就是說有些ISP IASP業者他並沒有加入這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
10553.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
10571.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
那個DNSRPZ的機制所以今天我們在這邊討論這個法案這個其實很大的一個目的就是想辦法讓這些原來沒有加入那個DNSRPZ的這些ISP業者看他能不能利用法律的方法或是其他的方法讓他們盡量加入這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
10573.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
10602.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
DNSRPG的機制那這個事情因為主責機關是NCC所以我們也是尊重說NCC的那個想法那是不是可以請那個NCC所以書法部的意思就是說這個還是就是要看NCC就對了就是主責單位相關的措施還是在NCC嘛總之IASB要納管這邊就是目前是這個責任是在NCC這邊我們立場是支持支持納管 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
10602.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
10631.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
是 支持啦 所以針對這個問題我們去年本席跟中加病委員還有林月璇委員也有召開記者會就是說我們要阻絕詐騙還有就是阻絕這種兒少性剝削這種暗黑網站我們就是要求我們要納管IASP就是有關這個網路接取服務的提供者那這個部分我們就是要求管制那不曉得說目前的管制進度如何是不是可以請NCC說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
10631.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
10655.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
是那跟委員報告那在有線電視它有經營這個快明上網都是ISP那一塊都已經有直接或間接加入DNS RPE何謂直接就是它的DNS它都直接加入TWNIC DNS RPG何謂間接它採用三大電信業者的DNS所以因為三大電信業者的DNS已經加入 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
10656.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
10665.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
所以直接跟間接有問題是63家全部加入這是第一個報告第二個報告電信的部分三大電信都有加入那 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
10666.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
10686.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
過往IASP二類電信的IASP裡頭有來登記的有營業的全部都加入那沒有來登記的我們去年有發函去行政指導他們請他們要加入那今天如果有立法有把他納管的話那後續的效果會更好另外跟委員補充那 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
10687.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
10709.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
即便是那些目前沒有來登記目前沒有被納管的因為他很多的寬頻或者電路的採購都是跟三大電信那這邊我們也許可以在過多期間會要求三大電信業者說你跟他TA關係上你可以可以要求他盡可能是用他的DNS RPG這樣子間接也可以達到有加入DNS RPG的效果 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
10710.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
10719.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
對所以目前針對這種ISP的管制我們是採取就是讓他們主動來登記嘛是不是沒有強制性嘛是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
10719.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
10741.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
法規上是沒有強制性因為雖然DNS RPG它效果不是100分但是說是大家都是盡量去努力因為很多技術上網際網路很多技術上不管是他直接打IP address或用境外的DNS都可以繞過但是這個我們能夠為多數的民眾來把關的我們都會盡量去努力 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
10742.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
10761.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
是那如果說我們今天修法將這個就是ISP這個管制啊強制要求強制一定要的話有沒有困難這個部分把ISP熱納管的話我們會在他比較細緻的這個執法的規範裡頭我們可以來來努力看看來要求 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
10761.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
10779.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
是就是因為我剛剛有聽到你回答那個我們蔡副院長的有一個重點你說要層級化的管理嘛是不是就是需要所以這個需要比較細緻的一個層級化細緻的管理所以它因為我們電信管理法有很多因為有些大業者 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
10779.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
10794.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
準這個S&P準這個市場主導者他的義務非常多那這些我們都是比較但是大家共識是DSRPG如果是大家是一定要的話這邊應該是公版的公版的義務這邊應該到時候應該會很有機會變成是普遍要適用的 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
10795.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
10812.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
是我想這個部分因為畢竟你們是主責機關而且你們也是專業的專家所以這個法要怎麼訂會比較完善我想就是也是要由你們自己在做會後或者是進一步的一個擬定這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
10812.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
10838.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
好 一定的 我們可以協定一定會來辦我想這個也都是大家的一個共識就是說對於主角詐騙還有主角這種暗黑網站我想這都是大家的一個共識也是社會的一個期待好 那就是有關這個詐騙真的是目前社會大眾一個非常深惡痛絕的一個部分所以在上一次的會議裡面我有詢問 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
10840.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
10857.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
這個陳代理主委有關這個就是簡訊的問題那當然我今天就是針對LINE的部分因為目前就是在這個發商業簡訊的部分我們NCC已經有比較精進的一個辦法就是白名單就是審核的一個機制那我們發現說 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
10859.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
10880.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
經過這樣子的一個機制之後這些詐騙的簡訊它已經轉換成沒有連結網站的就是LINE的這樣子的一個形式所以這個部分我要請教林次長那這部分應該就是屬於我們速發部的業務嘛因為我們也看到目前LINE帳號被盜的通報數有增加了80%那這邊我們有沒有什麼可以因應的措施 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
10881.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
10908.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
OK 事實上最近我們才接到LINE的通知他們最近會改善他們救回帳號的機制就是有些民眾他的LINE帳號被盜就是帳號密碼被盜那他們最近應該是有做在我們的輔導與協助之下他們會有新的措施讓帳號被盜的民眾可以有更好的方法把它救回來那他們最近應該會做一個宣布 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
10908.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
10924.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
他們會做一個宣布那目前的話我們就沒有比較可以就是比較有效的一個方法嗎就是要等LINE的一個回覆因為這個LINE比較特別就是說LINE跟那個Meta或者Google不一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
10925.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
10954.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
因為Meta跟Google它基本上是公開的平台但是Line是那個通訊軟體那通訊軟體牽涉到就是說我們必須依照憲法規定我們必須保障那個通訊的秘密這個自由這是一個權利所以會有這個我們當然是對於詐騙深惡痛絕但是我們因為我們台灣是一個自由民主法治的國家所以對於這個Line那個私訊內容的這個地方我們比較難直接用政府的公權力去涉入 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
10954.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
10960.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
所以這樣子就是會去拖延到比如說遭受到詐騙的或者是說賴帳號被盜的我們沒有辦法及時去處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
10964.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
10989.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
我們會想盡各種方法處理那包含就是我們會希望透過民眾的自願的就是說讓他把一些那個訊息揭露出來讓LINE的那個公司他可以去幫他去檢查說是不是有詐騙的嫌疑但是這個從政府的角度來講我不能強迫民眾說你必須把你那個通訊的內容給LINE公司或者甚至於給政府來監看 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
10990.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
11010.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
是好那我想就是說今天我們在討論相關的一個法案的一個修訂我們都是希望就是說讓我們的法令的一個規定就是更加的一個完善那我想這個部分也是需要我們各部會或者是我們許多的單位一起去集思廣益的一個部分好謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
11012.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
11015.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
非常謝謝委員的支持謝謝陳樹業委員的執行現在我們請魯明哲委員執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
11035.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
11048.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
好 謝謝主席 邀請我們NCC我們陳主委好 陳代主委來我看到那個數位部的林次長還有 問候而已 還有黃次長行事局的邱副局長我們今天來這邊好像都沒問到你們 先說聲對不起陳主委是 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
11063.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
11075.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
首先要跟你請教一下所以我看到NCC大概這個壽命最短的一個政策一個政策五天嘛2月5號 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
11077.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
11101.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
開始收費2月10號就投降就說暫停那這中間其實這個部分750塊目前是先暫緩一年然後有這個機會你上次有說明啦有這個機會把你們再兩年一次在修規定的過程中再把它修沒有現在是朝這個方向在努力是的好那我現在最主要是說這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
11104.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
11119.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
發生這樣的一個最短壽命那個可以講我覺得民眾非常不喜歡那個政策我覺得一定會留下什麼樣東西讓我們所有人可以學習所以我今天在想你們這個整個審查的過程中包括從去年的6月27號 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
11121.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
11141.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
有兩次的委員會決定了通過了收費的辦法然後呢9月5號也講說要跟大家說明一下說明一下9月5號在你們大禮堂也辦了這個收費標準的公開說明會就公開了公開說明會怕大家不知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
11142.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
11162.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
然後10月30號接下來就確定了收費的一個標準2月5號開始收費當然這中間我們看到了都是你內部的一個行政的一個決定委員會的一個考量你們的一個決策當然法律有授權你們這個部分750塊是有沒有經過立法院 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
11164.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
11182.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
你們自己的決定嗎跟委員報告先補充第一點就是對外諮詢意見的話在草案階段我們有對外諮詢意見這是第一點補充第二點補充在今年但是我們法規委員會通過之後我們還有兩次以上在那個會辦理 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
11185.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
11200.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
進口器材的那個官網的首頁有在有在宣告有在公告讓人家知道好那回到剛才的第二個問題這個NAPL的討論其實之前這個在去年六月以來 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
11201.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
11215.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
還有一些非正式的公開說明會比方說有一些報關行等等這些都有在持續在溝通但是自用部分在標準作業程序上在通過委員會議10月30號之前確實這邊是沒有意義的 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
11216.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
11233.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
好 這個部分是你們自己一個行政的一個考量行政的裁量你們覺得一個需要你們行政機關法定的授權但是法定授權在你考量的時候我覺得應該要有更多徵詢到未來會被徵收到你的政策改變它會影響到的部分它需要參與這個意見的一個表達 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
11236.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
11258.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
那這個部分也沒有經過立法院的審議那有跟我們立法院任何一個公聽會或者委員任何一個臨時提案有什麼關係嗎750塊有關係嗎有關係因為這個就是法規命令這個收購標準就是法規命令法規命令的SOP就是你在預告階段必須要灑出去給 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
11258.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
11284.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
不特定的對象還有一些相關機關包括消息機構等等都會來諮詢意見所以那個階段剛剛跟委員報告我們那個階段其實大概都包括這個這次提案那個重開展平台都有在徵詢簡單來講我們很多委員都一樣就公告實施民運開始的時候我沒注意到這個問題那我們現在特別調你資料的時候看到你們辦一個這麼大一個9月5號9月5號 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
11288.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
11305.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
你們辦一個非常盛大的一個公聽會叫說明會啦公開說明會我在講因為你們在整個修正這個規費部分當然可能有很多項其中有一項是個人自用的郵寄兩部以下的這個的部分可能只是其中之一嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
11306.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
11331.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
可是我不知道你們當時有沒有想到說它的影響後座力有多大後面的後座力感覺你們有沒有開始應變啊感覺讓我感覺其實你們剛開始想的好像沒有這麼嚴重那我也發覺你們當時想的我看到囉你們在公開說明會不是說光網路光隨便人都可以來喔你正式邀請了二十幾個單位 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
11333.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
11358.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
從中華電信到相關的一個進口公司 銷售公司包括什麼香港商啊 什麼電訊公司啊所有的企業法案都邀了請問一下750塊個人的名聲 自己用的郵寄你當天安排誰去做這個正式會議的代表你有安排 你有邀請消極會嗎你安排這些公司 誰代表 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
11359.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
11380.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
有沒有嘛 這個不要變啦 有 還是沒有是 跟委員報告這個因為個人自用是不特定的大眾我們在眾開獎平台也有同步在草案諮詢階段也有同步在眾開獎平台裡頭去公告眾開獎平台是個不特定對象就像後來人家在提案那個平台一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
11381.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
11409.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
所以那個是否不特定對象的那個平台我們都有在草案都有放在那邊去諮詢意見好 你在決策的時候在想的事情跟結果發生的事情顯然是差距非常大所以我們現在倒過來說以後不要再發生這樣的事情了啦像這樣的你會面臨很大的我跟你講金額可能是這些企業也許會變動的比較大但是以人數影響到的人 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
11411.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
11437.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
絕對是個人的一個每天在現在郵購已經變成一種現在這個買東西的一個型態嘛所以我是倒過來說啦你當天連消極會或者包括這些不管是電玩代表或者常用這些個人的一個業者其實有一些代表我覺得我相信在第一階段就會反映意見給你我也希望你們能夠注意這個問題好不好好沒問題我們會具體支持教訓 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
11438.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
11465.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
好 那我今天要問的第二個問題那沒辦法 時代在變這個近8年我們看到有限電視訂戶的一個變化從106年我們看到全國2100多萬戶哇 平均我們現在2300多萬人好像差不多2000多萬這樣的因為搞不好一戶有兩個甚至有公司的這個部分那一直到去年113年 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
11467.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
11488.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
下降了16%訂戶逐年下降因為這是一個趨勢逐年下降已經變成一個趨勢因為甚至有限電視業者他自己也改變了他也變成透過網路了他也不是有限電視有些也走無限了那這樣的一個趨勢第一個對你的相關一些業務 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
11489.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
11517.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
或者相關的服務未來想法你的政策我覺得這個趨勢是一個重要的一個點現在在逐年下降的過程中那我講其中一個點廣電基金是隨著用戶量當然乘以它的支費訂戶數乘以支費再乘以1%會變成全台灣注入你的我簡稱有間電視名字太長了我就以廣電基金來看 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
11518.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
11546.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
因為這個趨勢你的廣電基金也從8年前的大概一年可以收3.6億到113年去年2.8億它的降幅啊事實上比戶數降的更多因為為什麼因為這幾年又在討論資費以前都可以收520現在事實上相關的訂戶他搞不好可以特選我只要看新聞台我只要看什麼所以搞不好有些300所以他的 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
11547.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
11565.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
廣電基金大幅縮水這兩個趨勢最後我會讓你回答因為現在廣電基金的分配跟用途分配的用途地方政府我們當然滿關心這個問題地方政府占40%NCC流用30% |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
11567.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
11586.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
捐贈給公司30%那這個部分因為每一個這個包括地方政府公司跟你的用途都不太一樣我們兩個不在那我就請教NCC因為在30%裡面你們具體的計畫是說你分到了這樣的一個廣電基金主要會針對於有線電視的發展災害復建計畫跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
11591.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
11611.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
品質提升的整個的計畫像在這個未來持續的減少可能是一個不可逆的趨勢我想請教一下陳主委你對於這樣的一個趨勢所影響管電基金甚至未來適用的這三個單位你有什麼看法或者未來有什麼樣的建議 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
11612.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
11630.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
各位報告目前的這個規定是在油管法45條它有一相關的規定即便是NCC流用30%裡頭它用的一些規定都有一些條件性質那至於長遠來看這一塊要怎麼處理我們大概有三個方向第一個就是利用這個有限的 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
11631.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
11649.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
有限的油管基金然後請電信請這個有限電視業者要持續改善他的服務品質然後也鼓勵他他們是順應這時代的變化甚至於現在有些大部分的有限電視大型的MSO大概都有 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
11650.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
11667.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
靠攏這個OTTV因為這些現象都是OTTV跟中端設備的一星期所以會有一些這種趨勢的變化那即便是國外有減線槽但是另外一個部分我們沒有比較比較一般人沒有在意是說他的快頻上網其實是在慢慢在環境交叉所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
11668.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
11684.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
對有線電視部分而言我們這邊希望它能夠持續保住它的這個用戶的黏著度能夠保有競爭力那未來部分我們也鼓勵它順應時代潮流發展做多元地方文化等等的一些擴展 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
11685.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
11698.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
那至於這個就電公司的部分那雖然廣電法也有一些規定說未來有空間做一些處理但是現在文化部公司那邊目前他覺得他還是有一些需要那這邊都暫時還是沒有辦法來處理以上補充 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
11702.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
11726.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
好 陳志偉因為我今天質詢的時間已經到了今天這個第二題的一個最主要的一個用意這個已經不是未來的趨勢 是現在進行式啦現在進行式啦你肯定會有一些政策來去配合這方面的尤其有限電視它有些部分隨著用戶的下滑 它基金下滑但是你的有些服務的項目它不是變動的譬如說 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
11728.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
11746.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
我這個線要拉這麼遠過去有一萬戶現在變五千戶不好意思線還是這麼長你必須拉到所以像災害的復建有些品質的提升發展其實你的用的金額是固定的所以我覺得你要先期預備這可能的一個變化 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
11747.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
11768.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
這是我的一個最後的建議然後最後廣電基金因為基金還沒有審也沒有刪你不要回去跟我講說廣電基金已經被刪多少了因為還沒審那我們也希望這個部分我會來支持好 謝謝謝謝委員好 謝謝我們魯明哲委員現在請我們黃建豪委員執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
11782.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
11790.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
好謝謝主席主席我們一樣請NCC代理主委這個陳主委好那個陳代主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
11792.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
11820.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
主委好主委好我想今天第一個當然大家非常關心所謂750之亂的後續那當然過去NCC在10多年前都有規定說如果從海外輸入三部以上的電信管制射頻器材產品本來就要繳交這個審查費600塊的部分那當然兩部以下是以前是不用收費那當然去年今年有本來說要收費後來大家關心之後現在暫緩一年嘛那我想問一下這個暫緩一年是一年後來討論還是一年後會要收 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
11820.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
11838.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
一年內來檢討來修改這個收費辦法好 因為我們這個很多法律剛剛前面委員都討論過然後我再問一個比較直觀的問題就是ACC在這個事件上的說明是因為是要維護這所謂國內的電波秩序那在這個問題上面大家就想要問一件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
11839.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
11855.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
民眾的直覺邏輯是說那如果三部以上要收費那兩部以下你現在講說自帶如果是自帶的話我從國外我不是去買我不是這個網購假設一樣都是從海外取得所謂的電波產品這些產品自己從國外帶回來跟這個網購帶回來 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
11859.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
11872.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
為什麼自己帶的不用收網購的要收難道自己帶回來的就不會影響所謂的國內電波秩序嗎只有網購了才會影響國內電波秩序風險都存在我是不是請我們蔡處長來補充 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
11874.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
11893.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
首先跟委員報告就是那個不管你是自帶或者是那個郵寄的其實他都會有可能風險產生干擾這個問題一定是存在的那後市場管理的部分我們就是去看如果有民眾來申訴他這個地方收到干擾的時候我們才去解決 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
11894.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
11922.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
那前面那個自帶的那個網購那個網購的部位一般一般他都是新品進來嘛所以新品進來的時候他的那個在通關的過程當中他的時間會比較長所以比較有機會因為他要上網去填報這個那個那個切接書對切接書所以我們這邊就可以去幫忙事先的一些審核那攜帶式的我們當初為什麼用五件的方式是以現在的這個社會那個民眾他身上其實 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
11923.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
11938.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
以前就只有手機大不了在一個notebook那現在以他的手機耳機什麼通通有所以他也有可能是在境內買好的完成合格的品所以他因為旅遊的關係而出入境所以他的件數會稍微多 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
11939.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
11961.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
那到底是到建樹達到什麼程度他就會我們認為他不是自用或者是他是商業新聞過去的因為過去的這個規定就是一大舞台是雖然自用嘛沒關係我現在要問的問題是說因為我希望你們今年這一年要討論這件事情我們希望這個邏輯是一致的就是說我覺得很直觀的疑問是說如果今天我從國外帶一次舞台我自己帶進來 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
11963.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
11977.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
是沒有收取所謂的審查費對不對但是我從國外我既然上網訂購任何國外的新品我反而要收審查費在本來的法律邏輯裡面長這樣子那我的意思是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
11979.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
11998.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
因為你們的理由如果你們的理由是說是要為了維護國內的店舖秩序啦那這樣就很奇怪了我自己帶回來我自己出國帶回來你不用管嗎沒有還是要跟委員報告所有的產品進來我們都希望他是符合我們境內的我們國家的所謂規範上面的要求那他還是有可能是會干擾 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
11998.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
12023.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
的確他是會干擾所以我們每年都會處理民眾他曾經的案件說他的電波干擾我們就會透過我們的電波監測站去測如果測得到那就好如果民眾的檢舉有更明確的位置的時候那我們都會出動那個行動監測車到護監區去處理我也跟委員補充報告舉個例子好了Wi-Fi國內跟國外有的開的頻段不一樣有些 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
12024.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
12049.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
假設美國是開100個單位都這麼寬的頻寬國內可能只開70個單位那如果他吸進來那後面30個單位我們沒有開的他在使用的時候就會干擾國內那個30個單位的原有使用者那就是電波干擾主委這些技術問題的確你們之前都說明過我只是很疑惑我的點在於說自己帶5台不用收 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
12051.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
12055.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
網購兩台反正就開始要收這件事情在民眾會覺得我們會覺得說 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
12058.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
12083.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
這個邏輯不一致嘛 很奇怪嘛是 所以這一次這個這一次那個中開獎上面的這個名義所以我們就是決定是剛才主委有報告就是說我們兩台自用以下的我們也不會再收成身材好 沒關係反正今年你們要檢討這件事情我還是希望說第一個你們要去邀請真正的剛剛前面那個魯明哲委也提到了包含說消息會代表消費者權益的這一部分的 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
12083.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
12093.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
的這個聲音要出來了不是就你們的意見了應該要有真正使用者的意見在裡面好不好好沒問題接下來討論一下這個大家看到我們今天有提案所謂修法部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
12094.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
12121.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
可以看到這個所謂電信詐騙因為今天我想這個數位部跟法務部也都在不過我可能時間應該不太夠待會下午再出我們先討論這個就數字來看電信詐騙的部分從110年到現在的確是在攀升那去年有稍微下降一點那這個主因當然我不知道主因是什麼原因啦其中的原因當然是因為所謂的二類電信的氾濫二類電信過去在所謂電信法時代是有管制的嘛那現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
12123.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
12144.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
進入了新的法令之後我們把它等於是要解封了那反而解封之後我覺得本來原因是為了鼓勵產業創新啊但是我覺得創新到現在變成它變成一個詐騙集團很好的一種工具那我要問的主委就是說過去既然能夠把這個惡劣經濟列管那為什麼現在新的法令反而不想管呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
12146.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
12162.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
原因哪裡主要是幾個原因第一個是因為原來二類電信它的很多範圍是跟那個資訊服務業是灰色地帶有互相交融我舉個例子像我們疫情期間很多用的會議軟體在過去二類電信裡頭就有語音會議服務視訊會議服務這些在 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
12168.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
12187.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
疫情期間其實很多是國外的APP如果那些都納管的話這些對應對照回來就會覺得是很難以不可行因為很多是APP而且是在網路層的東西而且很多是國外的東西這個管理上要認定要納管都有實質上的一些困難那另外也補充來點心補充好你先講 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
12188.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
12206.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
就是說舊有的二類裡頭 二類範圍很廣舊有二類裡頭 包括MVMO 包括等等MVMO我們已經納管 已經回頭納管了那一塊是有在納管還有一些家職服務 他有來登記電信室的那些我們都有在納管當中那今天要討論說IAS並這一塊我們的內部討論意見也認為說贊成要再給他 回過頭來再給他納管 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
12214.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
12232.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
好謝謝主委主委我想兩個部分第一個是說去年當然七月大家很努力通過所謂的詐欺犯罪違害防治條例的部分就所謂打砸條例嘛那裡面有提到這個所謂的電信業會納管的部分是被認定是電管法第三條我們第一項第一款指的電信事業 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
12233.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
12259.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
那我今天提的修法版本裡面就是說到底有多少哪些屬於電信事業因為按照現行法令啊MVNO就所謂二類本來的二類電信你們上有列管可是你們納管是你們是請三大業者去做管理耶那我的意思是說為什麼這些所謂二類業者是不能由你們ACC直接管而且如果他沒有被列為所謂電信業者的話他是不是就不屬於這個打詐條例裡面定義的電信事業 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
12261.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
12287.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
跟委員補充回報第一點那剛剛的那解讀是在我們去年電信號碼管理辦法那個發布之前確實是有些MVMO他不想來他沒有來登記然後他就變成三大業者的企業客戶那這一塊就會有剛剛的情況但是我們去年就已經在執法就已經納管了MVMO這一塊其實已經在納管當中那如果今天委員提案說要把他從執法拉到法律位階這邊我們也贊同 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
12289.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
12313.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
贊同嗎 贊同好 主委那這樣的話我們就有共識了嘛那我希望這個稍後的討論能夠稍微加速一點因為我真的覺得說這個三大業者也有來討論也有陳情啦就是說今天過去是把MVNO這些所謂二類電信從電信法時代然後現在變成他們本來是去年變成是三大電信要管他們沒有實權他們沒辦法去真正的去管控這些人嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
12315.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
12335.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
這塊三大業者的疑慮說他怕長臂管理這塊其實我沒有跟他說明過我們最近一次3月20還找他我知道來主委這個我幫他們說明一下因為你是主管機關啊他要你們這樣說他就能這樣做啊所以今天為什麼會有這個修法原因也是因為三大電信也在實務上在執行面上他沒辦法去強迫對方當然最後是罰錢啦可以罰錢沒錯啦但是罰錢是 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
12338.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
12353.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
他們對這些所謂的二類電信業者他們可能在商業上可以處罰但是政府目前是罰所謂三大電信業者那他們覺得說這個頻寬或這個訊號是由政府提供的然後他們變成代理人的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
12354.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
12370.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
那他們沒有實際的所謂的不管是行政權也好或者是這個行事權也好他們沒有辦法去要求或者是約束這些業者他們在轉賣出去之後後續不然說詐騙集團或是剛剛稍微也會提到的像黑妹卡等等這些境外業者他要怎麼使用 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
12371.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
12392.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
所以我覺得這對三大電信業者來講它造成管理上的困難那其實今天我覺得修法核心的目的核心的精神是說把這個所謂的管理權一樣就收回NCC嘛你們本來就要管了只是說以前這段時間是把它委託給三大電信業者管那其實只是把真正的管理權收回政府部門我不知道這件事情NCC支不支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
12394.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
12421.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
第七業者給我的意見應該是在那個MVMO納入執法之前的一些意見後來我們大概都處理之後我們也跟他溝通過其實這邊他們都有共識說只要他有登記定金事業那個責任義務權利義務都會在那個定金事業二類有被納管的二類到時候他登記定金事業他就會有這個義務在身上這部分是當然有共識的所以我們這邊也支持委員就MVMO拉到母法的位階這個我們是支持的 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
12422.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
12443.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
那個登記不登記是強制的還是他們自主的如果把MVMO拿到母法說要的那都是變成強制的就是母法電信關於法有名列的那都是強制的好主委其實這是我的目的啦因為現在很多是沒有登記的嘛那沒有登記其實就他就不屬於剛剛我提到的所謂電信法犯罪那個什麼那個防打砸條例裡面電信法的這個範圍規範的範圍裡面我們希望這些 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
12447.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
12473.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
在灰色地帶遊走的業者他們能夠被列入真正電信法能管制的範圍那這樣子對於所謂的打詐我才有辦法執行啊如果他不受這個打詐法規範的話其實我們今天討論的我們今天打詐法通過討論都是正派經營的業者他們有主動來申請他們主動來登記那當然沒有這個問題那今天問題就是說這些被動的還不想不想來登記的但是他同時他一樣可以使用這樣子的功能的業者我們反而管不到吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
12475.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
12497.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
對 文聚的觀點我們是認同就是說 只要符合跟打造有意義打造的 該納管就納管但是也要注意說實務上的有沒有比例原則等等假設說它跟打造相對無關 比方說舊的二類很多在那邊計算更不可能使用的 從語音服務電話那些東西它更不會使用的 那些其實就沒有必要全部的電信服務都納管 都是我們的意見是這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
12499.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
12524.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
這個事項我們可以來討論啦但是我希望這個原則上能夠往這方向走好不好主委謝謝謝謝黃建豪委員現在我們請李昆哲委員執行謝謝 召委請一下陳代理主委陳代理主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
12530.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
12547.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
主委你好 有關於電信的簡訊詐騙造成國人重大的財產損失 也讓整個社會生物痛絕那在過去我多次的要求NCC必須要建立客戶確認的機制就是KYC的這樣的一個機制 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
12551.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
12567.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
那我們看到KYC的這樣的一個機制的運作以去年2024年3月到12月期間已經有超過三萬五千次的門號因為他單日的簡訊發送量異常所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
12568.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
12584.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
被KYC這個客戶確認機制關閉他的簡訊功能但是其中有一萬次的門號他經過重新的查驗後恢復這個有高達28%當然KYC這個客戶確認機制對詐騙集團的這種詐騙的簡訊他的這個有基本防範的一個功能但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
12597.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
12611.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
有超過將近有三成的這樣的一個失誤率那是不是我們這個客戶確認機制的辨識能力啊還需要檢討來主委簡單說明一下好各位報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
12612.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
12633.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
委員這邊秀出來的這張投影片應該是針對個人對個人我們術語叫做P2PP2P的這個簡訊這一塊因為P2P的簡訊基本上是受我們電信電信管理法裡頭包括就是秘密通訊的部分這邊我們比較不能去看他那種因為沒辦法看他那種比較沒辦法設定關鍵字去攔阻 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
12633.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
12654.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
那我們就用行為管制方式模式來處理比方說剛剛提到的如果他一天超過30則我們就會發關懷簡訊告訴他說要注意或怎麼樣那如果超過50則那他就要回到電信業者那邊重新合資那這合資後就恢復就是他們的權利那如果高達28% |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
12657.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
12679.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
不代表全部都是涉障因為有些比方說之前有人反映說他是個人他要辦理結婚他會發很多簡訊也會有相對這種問題這個相關的機制除了他的一個辨識能力的提升之外也關係到用戶的申訴或是相關的這種成本壓力的種種挑戰那 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
12680.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
12690.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
顯示有近三成的這樣一個誤難其實我們也要去思考我們面對這種詐騙的手法它是很快速的演化 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
12690.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
12710.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
那NCC應該要協助相關的電信業者我們接下來如果去提升這種風險的準確的辨識能力那我們是不是有結合跨業的資料或者是AI的風險模型以及來建立這種全國性的風險的用戶追蹤系統來說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
12715.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
12737.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
號碼的部分號碼可以用通話也可以發簡訊號碼部分其實現在我們在打造條例裡頭其實已經有這個機制了簡單來講說如果他被165通報停話或斷話的話那他都是屬於風險比較高的那我們甚至也有這個打造條例的對應二十幾條那邊會有如果他累積三次三次不見得 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
12738.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
12753.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
是同一家 他可能是中華 可能是台哥或遠專 只要累積三次 那他就構成這個未來三年他只能被拘束 只能擁有一支那一支如果他是現在公司就領有了 那他就不能再申請了所以就我們所謂的三正條款 這個機制有在進行 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].start |
12753.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].end |
12779.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].text |
那回到剛剛所講的KYC的部分簡訊的部分比較大宗的是商業簡訊商業簡訊這邊我們就可以引入這個商業機制的部分就可以事先去請這個業者來做查核他的內容不可以有網址不可以有電話不可以有短網址連結有的話必須要是有合過的變成白名單的才可以通過否則的話都會攔阻都不會 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].start |
12780.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].end |
12798.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].text |
主要我們必須更進一步的來探討相關的這種詐騙的門號它的攔阻跟相關的後續作為我們必須來討論一下它的成效我們看到2024年全年的電信業者它總共攔阻了798萬則的詐騙簡訊有922萬這種境外的詐騙來電 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].start |
12807.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].end |
12824.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].text |
並且停用了2395門的這種涉嫌詐騙的門號但是我必須要來討論我們是否這種技術的攔阻啊它的量有提高但是呢無法觸及這種詐騙行為的轉移就是說我們必須啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].start |
12829.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].end |
12835.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].text |
針對這種攬組的這種總數跟詐騙金額的變化以及產生這種詐騙的案件我們必須要去針對攬組的成效來進行這種交叉的比對分析 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].start |
12847.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].end |
12859.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].text |
是不是真的能說明啊男主越多詐騙越少但是看起來男主很多但是啊詐騙的這樣的一個狀況還是非常嚴重來主委說明一下好那簡單來講從結果來看因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].start |
12863.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].end |
12878.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].text |
傳統的可信賴的網路的國際來話我們該警示的警示該攔阻的攔阻所以那邊對詐騙警察員那條路已經幾乎是被擋擋得很嚴重所以他已經轉移了跟中文報告委員所提到一樣他轉移到其他路徑轉移到網路轉移到這個網路電話等等 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].start |
12880.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].end |
12901.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].text |
所以我們原來的防禦措施在在可信賴網路的國際電話也好國內不管是假冒國內的電話那一塊都持續來辦理那新的它轉移到政經那邊我們也加強我們的防禦那比方說網路電話這一塊我們也最近期也會推出一些措施包括攔阻包括一些語音警示等等 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].start |
12901.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].end |
12906.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].text |
好 主委我要請教一下我們現在有停用2395門的這種詐騙的電話來源那我們有沒有建立這種黑名單的追蹤機制 來說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].start |
12914.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].end |
12938.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].text |
詐騙電話剛剛跟委員報過在我們打造條例的三項條款裡頭其實都是有個165的那邊那個資料庫裡頭其實都有建立那各家電信業者還可以進去看說他申請的人他是不是涉障 是的話那他就是高風險客戶就會有一些管制他就這種高風險客戶他有沒有重複開戶的這樣的問題或是假人頭帳號來繼續作案的這樣的狀況我們NCC有查解這樣的情形嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].start |
12943.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].end |
12958.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].text |
人頭部分是比較難查但是這個涉及到說這個他查的他要查破的技術相對比較高早期的話他可能是我們要求電信業者做好KYC比方說他帶著一堆人去門市去申辦那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].start |
12959.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].end |
12975.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].text |
業者的風控機制就可以過濾到處理的很多那現在他們慢慢也變得比較靈活那這一塊的KYC還是要持續但是說這個效果有在遞減但是我們會採用新的要求電信業者採用新的風控的方式來處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].start |
12976.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].end |
13002.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].text |
我們NCC針對這種KYC的客戶確認機制或是對相關的詐騙的電信簡訊雖然有初步的作為但是成效民眾還是很不滿我們還是有很大的這種檢討跟改進的空間最後的時間我要來請教第一級電信管制設平器材的這樣的一個使用那我們看NCC的說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].start |
13003.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].end |
13024.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].text |
本次新增的第一級電信管制設平器材使用計畫的相關的這個規定那它的原因是第一級的器材它的功率強大而且它的影響範圍非常的廣泛那管理器材必須要嚴格而明確那NCC是否有準備 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].start |
13025.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].end |
13047.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].text |
足夠的人力資源來因應可能增加的這種申訴或者是行政負荷來說明一下兩點回到第一點第一集的這個像這邊所顯示的最簡單就是像機場或者CIA所在地的一些防止無人機來入侵干擾的需要有電波遮斷器那一塊就是典型的地類 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].start |
13048.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].end |
13073.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].text |
電信管制生命器材第二個委員提到說我們自己同仁來審核的部分那因為量的增加從過往兩萬多變成一年四萬多那我們也提升規劃朝向類AI或者自動化方式來處理來減輕人力的負擔這塊我們打算編在明年的預算裡頭來處理那目前這樣可以因應相關的這種申訴或者是行政的負荷嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].start |
13074.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].end |
13091.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].text |
就是勉勵前行我們會持續來來就做同仁辛苦一點那等到我們那個自動化的相對應的軟硬體到位之後可能情況會比較改善必須要加緊相關的作為了是是謝謝委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].start |
13104.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].end |
13132.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].text |
好謝謝我們李坤澤委員現在請邱若驊委員執行謝謝主席好主席有請陳代主委好陳代主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].start |
13138.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].end |
13151.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].text |
主委好 我們今天的會議主要是針對兩項議題進行討論嘛 一個是將干擾無人機訊號等相關設備納入第一設平器材的管理規範那再來是針對電信管理法的審查那本席今天就今天 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].start |
13152.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].end |
13169.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].text |
所列之審查一案就叫主委本期在去年的10月7日打詐專案報告中曾經就第二類電信業者是否應該由NCC直接管理提出質詢當時是溫柏中副主委備詢我們先來看到法務部的統計資料顯示 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].start |
13171.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].end |
13193.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].text |
雖然113年的詐騙案件數跟112年比起來略有下降可是還是高於111年的16801件這顯示出詐騙案根本沒有趨緩的還是不斷的在發生那今年的1月至2月全國地方的地檢署他新收到的電信詐騙案呢他的案件數則達到3075件 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].start |
13196.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].end |
13225.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].text |
根據打詐儀表板來看同期間的詐騙案件數為兩萬三千八百九十三件那詐騙的金額高達一百五十六億兩千七百三十五萬那不管是哪一個單位的數據來看很明顯詐騙依然橫行受害的人還是不斷增加那我們接著看到電信管理法在一百零八年六月二十六日的時候公佈了那當初立法的目的是在於接個原電信法的制度沒錯吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].start |
13226.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].end |
13240.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].text |
是部分接軌它但是也要創造一個讓業者有服務讓整個國家社會有服務創新的一些空間跟動能所以會解除相對跟資訊服務業比較接近那一塊的區塊我們就比較解除列管 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].start |
13241.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].end |
13258.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].text |
謝謝主委那當時也有要求單位要三年內完成轉軌那隨著轉軌完成那至此第二類的電信業者他不用再向NCC申請那他也不再受到NCC來監理而是改以公司法為主要規範那目前是在經濟部作為主管機關 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].start |
13260.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].end |
13287.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].text |
所以沒錯吧但是還是會有原來二類還是有持續來登記因為他有些他登記完之後對他的營業會比較有利比方說他要投地方政府的一些標案如果他來登記的話對他而言是一個加分的就目前的登記數是多少就有二類目前登記數是60幾家是60幾家那當時電管法上路108年7月的時候當時的全國第二類電信業者大概有幾家 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].start |
13288.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].end |
13303.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].text |
就有的是216家216家因為我這邊本席這邊看到是386家108年7月的統計那隨著專會完成目前這些業者他有沒有收到NCCC |
| transcript.whisperx[440].start |
13303.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].end |
13332.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].text |
實質的監理跟我們報告我剛剛講是純粹IASP因為二類的範圍很大它裡都有IASP有MVMO也有其他價值服務之前是386家是所有的二類家種我剛剛因為你有提到IASP那本席今天要跟您討論的會是著重在MVMO那我們現在我們看到有386家那轉軌以後大多數他們都沒有登記也不受到實質的查核那這些業者是否現在還在提供VOIP還有簡訊SIM卡等服務 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].start |
13335.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].end |
13354.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].text |
這邊簡訊信卡的服務其實如果他是做MVML的話他可以兩種身份一個是他用MVMLMVML現在還是有一家業者那如果他是他不想用MVML身份那他就變成三大業者的企客那他現在很多他現在很多都是他目前是第二類電信業者那都有走在監理的邊緣您認為這樣的架構合理嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].start |
13357.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].end |
13373.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].text |
就是我們在全能說維持社會公益公益打仗也是社會公益之一是我們要全能還有這個業者的創新發展我們在一直在動態的所以既然您提到打仗那電信轉軌制度已經上路那可是第二類的電信業者頻頻捲入詐騙案這是您清楚吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].start |
13375.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].end |
13397.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].text |
原來的這種情況我們知道我們現在看到前年的2月桃園地檢署查獲不效的第二類電信業者與詐騙集團合作都在發送了1193萬封的詐騙簡訊這個數量非常的驚人那不僅如此還有中華電信合作的第二類電信業者涉嫌將民眾的個資外洩以防治安危機那更嚴重的是呢前年4月爆發三家第二類 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].start |
13398.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].end |
13416.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].text |
的電信業社詐騙案那檢方也查出NCC的前委員也擔任其中一家的業者顧問並且透過他兒子的帳戶每個月收取1500到1600的酬勞那對於這樣的現象第二類電信業者他已經是打詐的破口之一了主委您怎麼看 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].start |
13418.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].end |
13438.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].text |
就是針對打架部分我們要針對說比較跟打架有關的我們都持續在努力我們去年就已經把他納管了那ISP這次的報告我們也提出我們的看法我們也認同說ISP要適度納管要適度納管那可是目前現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].start |
13441.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].end |
13468.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].text |
所以納管的 您納管的定義是你們有做出什麼樣的管理跟約束比方說FMMO它目前有來登記的在119年轉軌的中間它是7家那電管法施行之後它有7家只要它有來登記它就是電信事業電信事業就會要承擔電信管理法裡頭那去年事業開放電信事業任務號碼管理辦法那您目前掌握到的總共幾家 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].start |
13469.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].end |
13498.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].text |
如果MVM的話就7家就7家所以他不到10家那這項辦法他有沒有強制力呃有有他有什麼樣的強制力就是說他違反的話因為他是母法授權他違反的話一樣受到電信管理法母法的一些一些罰則注意請教第二類電信業是否一定要向NCC申請看他有沒有符合就我們現在第五條的規定說他要取得一些頻率資源那有申請的才會被NCC視為第二類電信業那沒有申請的叫做什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].start |
13499.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].end |
13517.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].text |
我們是自願登記的自願登記那沒有申請的呢沒有申請的話廣義上他就是廣義的資訊服務業者沒有申請的是不是叫企業用戶他是不是以企業用戶的身份存在如果他是跟電信業三大合作的話他是他的企業客戶那是誰來做管理 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].start |
13518.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].end |
13538.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].text |
如果是契克的話那他跟三大之間是有契約關係靠契約關係來約束那目前是不是由第一類的電信業者來做管理MVMO那一塊目前因為他有來登記的話他就是要自己承擔責任義務他自己要承擔責任那請教主委這樣的制度第一類的電信業者有法律上的公權力嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].start |
13541.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].end |
13559.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].text |
我知道委員要反映說業者反映說有什麼長臂管理這塊是沒有的我們跟他說過好幾次所以我們都知道第一類的電信業者他不具備法律上的公權力那這樣情況下第二類業者他真的會完全配合第一類業者的約束跟管理嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].start |
13561.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].end |
13565.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].text |
如果您是第二類的電信業者,那當第一類的電信業者向您調閱客戶資料的話,你會不會提供? |
| transcript.whisperx[452].start |
13582.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].end |
13605.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].text |
這一部分我們並沒有要求也不在規範你的要求我是說假使如果你是第二類電信業者你會把你的資料交給第一類嗎這一部分應該必須要符合法規法規上不允許的話我是如果是我我是不會你是不會啊那所以你怎麼會覺得那第二類的電信業者他會據實以告所以這一部分我們的執法委員並沒有要求要做這種事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].start |
13606.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].end |
13626.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].text |
所以我們都看到第一類的電信業者來管理來監督自己的潛在競爭者也就是第二類的電信業者你覺得這樣子合理嗎這是他們誤解啦其實他們有一個過例這是不是制度上面的一個漏洞 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].start |
13627.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].end |
13644.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].text |
我沒有跟他說明過關鍵的動作是檢視其實他只要做到一般的檢查義務我們不是要他做到高階的善良管理人的義務本席最後認為因為有鑑於現在第二類的信業者已經是詐騙案件 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].start |
13645.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].end |
13659.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].text |
裡面的破口那每次都是第二被查出都是第二類業者的關係那也希望NCC可以重視這個問題那提出具體的改善修法好沒問題我們會努力謝謝謝謝委員好謝謝邱樂華委員現在請廖先祥委員執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].start |
13683.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].end |
13688.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].text |
好 謝謝主席 也要麻煩我們這個陳代理主委好 陳代主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].start |
13693.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].end |
13717.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].text |
好 戴主委你好 這個昨天啊 這個又有這個相關的演習嘛 軍事的演習那兩岸不斷的衝突對抗當中 我想大家可能會比較擔心 會擔心一點就是如果說真的發生什麼事情衝突的時候那我們國內民眾 因為畢竟通訊是維持社會安定穩定人心非常重要的一個功能嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].start |
13717.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].end |
13745.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].text |
那如果說兩岸發生衝突的時候我可以預想到可能會有兩個問題嘛第一個就是連外這個外國的網路可能會因此中斷只能可能用這個地軌衛星來做一些必要時的替代第二個是電力的問題因為像這個天然氣船也因為這樣子不敢來台灣就造成台灣電力的問題所以就這兩個部分我來跟助理做一個請教跟討論啦就是假設我們這個台海發生一些問題導致連外的 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].start |
13748.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].end |
13773.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].text |
電纜發生問題那我們目前使用的一些可能通訊軟體有哪一些他可能是沒有辦法用的簡單來講就是說如果那通訊軟體的他的server是在國外的假設對國外的通訊路徑上已經終止的話那大概是沒辦法用但是他目前業者的部件大概是多路由的都有備援基本上他的韌性會相對比較好 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].start |
13773.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].end |
13799.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].text |
那也有一些他S7是MIRROR的其實在國內境內都會有一些對應短期內衝擊還不大如果是真的對外完全斷網但是任性的部分部件包括衛星的海欄那邊只要維持住的話其實應該都不會不通就是假設連外的海欄都中斷的情況下那像我們一般的LINE剛剛主委有說如果說他在台灣有使用機房的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].start |
13801.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].end |
13824.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].text |
如果說通訊業者在我們國內有地方的話或許還是可以通訊的那以LINE來講因為LINE是我們台灣最廣泛使用的嘛或者是臉書的Message或者是可能WhatsApp這三家可能是大家最常用的啦那他哪一家他們三家在如果說真的連外網路斷掉的時候那哪一些可能是分別可以用的可能先讓大家民眾心裡有個底這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].start |
13825.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].end |
13841.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].text |
直接講結果講到機制如果海欄都斷了還有衛星那衛星的話因為頻寬有限所以大家要搶衛星對那一定是國家優先嘛對國家的訊息優先那這三家就是都斷了情況下這三家通訊軟體有辦法用嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].start |
13843.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].end |
13866.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].text |
有沒有機房在我們國內國內自己的衛星應該會以這個公共利益的為主就是剛剛委員所講的可能也許是公家機關或者軍方或怎麼樣來為主國安單位為主那如果是國外的衛星但是我要跟主委確認啦就是這三家在我們國內目前是沒有部件機房的所以說聯外中斷的話我們是沒有辦法透過這些通訊軟體去做聯繫的嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].start |
13868.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].end |
13885.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].text |
理論上是這樣子那有沒有哪一個軟體應該是我們可以推薦給大家是可以用的應該不存在這種我記得我們國家之前不是有推過一個也是通訊軟體嗎什麼挖的還在嗎JokerJoker還在嗎應該還在我想這個我們總是未雨綢繆啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].start |
13891.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].end |
13906.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].text |
那如果只在國內使用當然沒問題就沒問題嘛就另類的intranet一樣所以你們可能要去確認一下如果說真的當聯網網路斷掉的時候我們國內的民眾可能用哪樣子的一個通訊軟體他是有辦法維持我們聯繫功能的包括我們國家可能要發送訊息的時候也是相對 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].start |
13907.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].end |
13929.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].text |
我希望說我們來盤點一下那後續我們當然是會可能要積極的是不是來爭取這些國外我們大家使用的一個通訊軟體的業者我們在台灣也能夠有相對應的機房能夠維持通訊的一個順暢如果說沒有辦法連到他們的國外的機房的話我覺得這可能是我們必要後續要做的不知道主委認不認同認同 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].start |
13930.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].end |
13949.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].text |
認同嗎 好 那就麻煩我們的主委那第二個就是當然通訊是一個問題那第二個就是基地還需要電力嘛那電力通訊業者我們就是三大通訊業者佔我們台灣的總體電力的消耗率大概佔比1%而已其實沒有很高 大概1% |
| transcript.whisperx[468].start |
13950.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].end |
13971.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].text |
那當然如果說台海發生一些狀況的時候一些天然氣船可能進不來但是我們國家對於天然氣的儲備的天數也是有限的嘛可能第一天沒問題第二天沒問題但是一旦發生這樣的情況政府一定會開始限電主委您瞭解就是我們基地台的一個限電的編組他是在哪一類嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].start |
13973.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].end |
14002.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].text |
這部分我不清楚應該是台電他們的規劃但是跟委員補充報告兩點如果是短時間的市電市電就是台電供應的市電中斷的話其實我們在基地台那邊有要求業者要做好一些備援的台海被封鎖不可能是幾小時的事我知道你們基地台都有備援電源那這個就是法定有規定幾個小時但一定是我們一定是討論可能幾天幾週或是上月的一個時間所以你們並沒有跟台電了解你們我們的限電邊阻 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].start |
14003.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].end |
14015.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].text |
我不知道但是我可以確定一點是因為通訊這些都是關鍵都是CI我相信CI通訊的CI算是所有的東西的一個根本應該是優先訊號還蠻高的你後續就跟台電確認一下就是保障我們國內通訊的韌性 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].start |
14019.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].end |
14042.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].text |
光網路的部件不夠我們要有電基地還要能夠運作那通訊才會順暢嘛那就後續因為我知道台電有分就像之前台灣可能停電的時候都有分誰先停電誰先沒有停電嘛醫院不會停電嘛重要的國防設施不會停電嘛那我們通訊設備會不會被停電我想這是我們NCC可能後續要去了解的那或許是不是也是去爭取一下如果說它的限電編組 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].start |
14044.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].end |
14066.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].text |
使用電力的流線順序是比較後面的我們是不是要爭取在比較前面一點要確保電力通訊的安全好不好這一點沒問題我們會世界的轉達反應好那就是這兩點那主委這個今天你也站滿久了你休息一下好了謝謝委員謝謝委員那今天我看這個好像法務部次長有來我請教一下次長好了來黃次長黃次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].start |
14069.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].end |
14073.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].text |
因為都沒人去找我們 不好意思沒禮貌 我們的錯 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].start |
14077.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].end |
14105.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].text |
市長好不好意思今天您來了但我當然要問你跟這個可能今天的這個主題沒有關係但您來就問你法務部的事情因為今天早上有這個相關新聞你非常清楚就是共諜案那有可能被調查然後這個被這個交保的情況嘛那我想確認一下他被交保了嗎我們法務部後續會不會有抗告的行為啊就認為這個危害國家安全重大這個不可以放出來怎麼可以放出來這個案子你了解嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].start |
14106.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].end |
14131.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].text |
不好意思因為我今天早上很早就過來這邊了那這個是我們檢查機關在辦理那法務部是做法務行政所以對於個案我們都尊重檢查機關的偵辦那是否有抗告我相信檢察官會以法審著作來處理因為我不是很確認今天早上的新聞這個交保是法院裁定的還是檢察官直接命交保的所以這個部分讓我們在我想站在國家安全的角度啦因為最近都有一些這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].start |
14134.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].end |
14154.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].text |
縮壓禁建的新聞嘛譬如違反各自法縮壓禁建就兩件了嘛對不對結果就很多的民眾在質疑怎麼違反國安法然後把機密資料外洩給可能總統所說的敵對私利結果居然交保出來了那大家會擔心你交保出來之後你家還有沒有什麼如果說你平常就有在洩密的一個的習慣的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].start |
14155.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].end |
14164.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].text |
那你家裡有沒有藏一些機密平常就把一些政府的一些公文重要的文書copy在家裡那你出來的時候你還是有些什麼的可能啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].start |
14165.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].end |
14188.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].text |
我想這一些都是相關的案情那具體個案的狀況都不一樣好不好 我就請我們的次長站在保護國家安全的情況下審慎的來檢視這個案件啦那檢視我們再提出抗告說要的必要以保障我們國家的機密的資訊有任何外洩的可能好 謝謝我們會回答相關的檢查單位 謝謝謝謝廖先祥委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].start |
14195.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].end |
14219.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].text |
那接下來由鍾嘉賓委員執行主席在場的委員先進列席的政府機關司法官員會長公眾夥伴媒體記者女士先生有請我們陳代理主委MCC還有蘇發部的林次長蘇衛部林次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].start |
14225.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].end |
14248.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].text |
主委好 次長好今天我們來談防制詐騙而少性剝削要有效那麼新型態的電信事業業者要納管好我們先看最近的新聞兩位知不知道這個京城資訊這是知府的龍頭出現資安就過去這兩天的大新聞有四萬家企業包括航空跟金融而這個企業這個京城是台灣大哥大 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].start |
14249.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].end |
14261.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].text |
他已經要跟他合作要瞄準中央部會還有醫療會那個醫療業那還有跟多家的第三方支付整合請問兩位你們是不是有掌握本案對於政府部門和關鍵機構設施的影響先請次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].start |
14264.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].end |
14291.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].text |
跟委員報告依照我們現在資安署所掌握到的訊息就是資安署主要是要保護政府機構以及關鍵基礎設施的資安目前我們政府跟關鍵基礎設施並沒有收到這一波的資安攻擊的影響這是第一部分我們掌握到第二部分就是說這次的資安攻擊應該是來自於一個駭客組織叫Crazy Hunter |
| transcript.whisperx[483].start |
14291.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].end |
14319.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].text |
Crazy Hunter就是之前攻擊我們兩家大型醫院的同一個駭客組織是然後他們的成員之中至少有一位是中國籍的事實上昨天刑事警察局已經起訴了一位在中國浙江的一位羅姓的工程師我們認為說好 政府就在嚴辦嘛是 但是他人可能就在中國好 那請問一下我們很擔心會不會後來出現暗網出現出售各自的情況 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].start |
14321.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].end |
14347.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].text |
這個目前我們並沒有掌握到這個訊息我們希望不要出現這種情況好來接下來來往下看所謂的電信事業用戶號碼的使用管理辦法這是在去年的4月通知團會就說了我們要訂出這個辦法那其中就要把所謂的虛擬行動網路服務就是剛剛很多委員關係的MVNO要納入責成電信事業要加強管理請問代理主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].start |
14348.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].end |
14369.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].text |
所謂的責成電信事業要加強管理是責成哪個電信事業一類的是不是這邊用語是一類沒錯是一類沒錯嘛好我們看一下根據這個你們就定根據了電管法的第69條你們定了一個管理辦法然後它的法則呢要回歸到電管法的83條沒錯吧是所以裁罰是裁罰一類業者吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].start |
14370.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].end |
14398.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].text |
如果他是他的企科但是如果他登記電視業就是採訪他MVMO業者我可以採訪到MVMO業者因為他登記電視業他如果登記的話好往下看好往下看那這次的修法呢我們是針對呢剛剛說的齁這裡面所提到的所謂的批發轉售啊你這裡呢不能夠再轉再做其他的批發轉售是不是這樣對他這是第一條那請問一下目前經營虛擬行動網路服務業者有沒有納入 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].start |
14399.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].end |
14418.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].text |
目前有居家有來登記好 那麼轉售跟使用智慧虛擬碼或者是物聯網號碼以外的用戶號碼有沒有納入這邊是在我們號碼權管理法裡有規範有規範 好那麼像所謂的黑美卡就是銷售境外事業所提供的語音及數據等公共服務的有沒有納入 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].start |
14419.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].end |
14431.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].text |
黑莓卡他是用國外的電話嘛他來國內只是漫遊那最快我們在打造條例的時候很好 你講到打造條例馬上看打造條例打造條例第14條他主要目的是 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].start |
14432.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].end |
14456.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].text |
預防阻止要做合理的對應措施對不對16條如果對於轉讓的話我們可以限制或停止這都指一類業者他有辦法這樣做第20條是指國際漫遊服務就剛剛講的黑莓卡那麼我們必須確認他們是出境或與其拘留如果有資料不實或異常使用剛剛提到了異常使用就會處理請問這幾條是否包含了這裡的電信是不是就是說從事的用戶號碼批發轉售服務的電信業者 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].start |
14460.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].end |
14489.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].text |
他來登記的話他就是適用就一類好那麼如果他違反了這樣的這個炸房條例那是不是就依法依炸房條例來罰還是依電管法來罰打掉條例本身他是有罰則應該就依好那我們再往下看好那現在呢你們現在的這個管理辦法訂的這個管理辦法呢第十條這個業者本身他要去做實地的仿事對不對你覺得一類業者有辦法對他的下手做實地仿事嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].start |
14490.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].end |
14515.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].text |
這邊我有跟大家解釋過他是做那個一般性的書面就是相對於跟類似類似刑事檢查都是一般性的一般性的嘛對不對好既然是一般性的刑事檢查他有辦法去察覺或確認異常使用啊有沒有在做批發轉售啊有辦法察覺嗎那個在我們這個執法的立法說明有提到是技術可行的情況之下技術可行才可以那如果他沒有辦法做得到 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].start |
14516.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].end |
14544.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].text |
限制或終止合約他只能用限制跟終止合約嘛他沒有公權力嘛是不是這樣往下一個是所以目前你們的法律給要求的這個業者所謂的一類業者他沒有公權力所以他如何去落實執行稽查我們那稽查其實並不是公權就是我們要他做一般的對要他做嘛一般的檢查一規一規好就是KYO嘛那那請問有責無權那他怎麼你們怎麼去落實這個裁法 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].start |
14546.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].end |
14567.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].text |
就是說如果他有登記電信事業的話我們就會罰MVMO業者不會罰這個提供號碼提供號碼給他的或者評論號碼給他的那個三大業者所以呢我最後就是要請你們具體的告訴我們如果要確實執行納管提供電信服務業者有下列行為的時候包括說第一 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].start |
14568.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].end |
14588.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].text |
他透過這個MENO或者是轉售或者是說銷售境外那你們有沒有辦法去執行根據這三種樣態提出一個報告說明好不好怎麼去切實執行當然如果你們覺得有困難的或者技術上不可行的也一併說明可以嗎可以沒問題好謝謝謝謝主委謝謝次長謝謝謝謝委員好謝謝鍾嘉賓委員現在請張祺凱委員執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].start |
14615.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].end |
14616.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].text |
陳代主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].start |
14625.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].end |
14637.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].text |
主委今天很多人關心這750年之亂我看你上來回答的時候前後不大一樣你要不要看看你的左腳有沒有踩到右腳一開始有立委問你說這750年之亂 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].start |
14642.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].end |
14653.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].text |
不只是緩爭啊可能一年後就就往這個不爭的方向你講對嘛對不對各位的報告那是因為當初我們正在要報財政部函還沒回覆之前我們不能把話講太滿 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].start |
14655.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].end |
14681.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].text |
對啊我說立委這樣問你 你說往這方向嘛後來又有立委問你啊你說修完之後可能一年後要增你沒發現你這左腳踩到右腳前後是不一的沒有 就是我們講說符合最大主流名義方式現在最大主流名義方式是不收那就是我們的主要最大主流名義不收所以是往不收的就是不收的嘛那可是你現在看起來是修完掉成以後一年後要再增啊不是 就是我們會 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].start |
14682.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].end |
14700.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].text |
一年期間是停政一年面穩會完成修法修法會以最大主流民意方向為考量那因為修法是涉及到NCC委員會議那NCC是何意志我不能把我一個人的意見當作NCC的意見所以你提到說最大的民意最大的民意現在就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].start |
14701.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].end |
14721.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].text |
不收嘛對不對是不是你目前的理解跟你今天在立法院講的就是不收嘛是不是對沒錯來我給你看我得到訊息好像不是這樣啊來我們來看公文你們給了財政部發函財政部給你的文啊他的文的重點是什麼來我們看一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].start |
14723.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].end |
14749.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].text |
緩徵一年緩徵的理由是你這一年要做什麼辦理業務宣傳財政部還特別提醒你喔你停徵期滿之後要立即恢復收起該項審查費如果叫你去歐約公文叫財政部給你這個函那你今天應該很明確跟民眾講啊你這個停徵是只有一年就是明年的2月5號就開始要重新 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].start |
14750.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].end |
14776.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].text |
正說嘛 是不是這樣 如果照公文來看是不是這樣公文報告 兩點補充 第一點一般理業宣導那是扣合規範法12條的文字 我們必須要符合它第二個 這個停政一年 我們是停政一年之內我們會來做法規檢討 就是收費辦法的檢討那如果字不記 假設一年內法規檢討沒有辦法完成的話我們還可以再跟產政部再申請展言 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].start |
14777.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].end |
14799.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].text |
那你要早一點給他 給他知道啊那更重要的 沒有沒有 我們要做幾個我們是法治國家嘛 做幾件事情第一個齁 來來 我做一個三個非常具體的這個第一個 你們現在 今天為什麼要討論這個因為你給我們立法院一個被查案嘛 對不對是被查案你要撤回去啊對不對 對不對你不撤今天我們也會退回去是不是這樣 法治國家應該這樣處理嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].start |
14800.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].end |
14822.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].text |
你都不爭了啊那你現在還送了一個立法院來叫你備查對不對這是法源這個要先拿掉對不對這是累累對不對第二個你要檢討我先我看了一下你是2月12號就給財政部穩財政部在14號就給你了耶他說很快喔他跟你一樣他也很尊重民意啊可是你們這個公文的往返公文上面呈現的就是一年後是要再爭的你跟民眾的傳達信息 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].start |
14824.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].end |
14851.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].text |
所以我說第一件事情先把你的查詐案撤回去這是第一件事情第二個要跟財政部講我不是一年要收喔你不要跟民進黨說喔我們現在你講有最大名義是往不收嘛對不對好不好今天很明確喔好不好剛剛跟委員報告講因為呢財政部還沒回函之前我們必須要用比較相對比較寬鬆的一些字眼那財政部同意我們停政一年我們會在一年內來修那個收費辦法 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].start |
14853.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].end |
14879.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].text |
只要把所有的辦法修回這個假設啦假設修為免徵的情況之下我們也不會再跟財政部再申請一個展延所以這一年內是說我們取得這個時間能夠處理掉這個問題好啦 你現在強調最大民意嘛那像最新的民意也是就是不曾往這邊走所有的三個要求都很明確啦你再看一下喔除了第二點我剛剛講你趕快撤回撤回你這個被查這個案子沒有的話我們今天我相信今天的會議應該也會決定退回啦這個應該會達成 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].start |
14882.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].end |
14908.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].text |
那第二個你要撤回你這個收費案的時候你要重新檢討當然最好就是不收了嘛那至少你要做到一點要取消用智慧的那一塊那部分我剛剛看你們有在談這一塊嘛對不對能不能做一個言論就至少在智慧的這一塊盡量不要收好不好好盡量不要收那第三個你趕快跟財政部發一個函另外我要提醒你們在檢討一個重點你知道那幾天為什麼明年春天很多人很想去 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].start |
14910.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].end |
14930.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].text |
他們氣啊 他們說 你去拿我這七寶石塊要做什麼你們NCC的講法是說 要拿來做什麼 水電啦開會的人事會啦 自動辨識系統的建置還有一項 引起最大反彈 訴訟會你拿我人民的錢 說我們人民的錢 跟人民打官司那時候整個是雜鍋了嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].start |
14932.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].end |
14945.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].text |
跟我們報告當時確實是有一件以自由民意來進口然後我們跟他有訴訟確實當時是有個案是真實的個案所以你拿我們人民的收費的錢去跟人民打官司更重要你官司常常都打輸對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].start |
14948.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].end |
14975.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].text |
常常打輸 常常打輸的同時最重要 我覺得民眾現在的反感是在你拿我們的錢去打訴訟所以你們如果真的要修 至少把訴訟會這個拿掉 好不好好 把這個訴訟會拿掉另外 我用比較簡短的時間問一個最近大家很關心的就是民視啊 用這個AI製作這個緬甸地震這個事情我看你們發了三點聲明嘛我看不只沒有告誡跟勸告耶 那好像很溫柔的提醒而已 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].start |
14980.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].end |
15002.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].text |
我看今天沒有時間沒有時間看這個這個你要看過這個他這個影片嘛對不對所有有看過吧對不對我相信再說應該很多因為這個很聳動這個為什麼要處理一個AI是一個這個製作是一個新的新的一個技術那電視台到底要不要用這個本來就是好好要去要去討論跟規範的第二更重要的單純就這個事情你看以AI合成這個照片 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].start |
15004.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].end |
15013.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].text |
觸目驚心啊 他跟你講啊用AI合成 這個照片是什麼觸目驚心 整排的高樓幾乎全部都倒了道路像是被撕裂 你看這個會造成恐慌 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].start |
15018.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].end |
15036.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].text |
這個個案我們已經請該家業者來做意見陳述那後續我們會照我們的標準程序來處理那至於通案上的這個廣電世界運用AI部分我們也目前正在嚴厲應用指引我們希望能盡快把這個指引出來然後讓各家媒體來參與用 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].start |
15040.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].end |
15063.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].text |
現階段就是他們要有這個落實他們自己的事實查證跟他們內部的內控的自律機制那這邊我有強調說要他必須要做好這個自律的方面的一些相關該揭示就揭示電視影響力很大嘛那這個事情為什麼這麼重要因為它合成這個畫面非常觸目驚心會不會引起恐慌我們有些台灣人還在緬甸耶 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].start |
15065.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].end |
15091.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].text |
昨天不是一個新聞嗎一個受傷我們臺灣的負責不幸不幸往生了嘛 對不對第一個我們臺灣跟緬甸都是在同樣的一塊OAR大陸這個板塊上面所以這個新聞基本上是引起了一部分這個恐慌而且它是一個假新聞所以它是要處理的好 那我提出我的具體的處理方式我來自媒體嘛我去調了一下你們在一百一一一零零六次這個委員會議的這個紀錄啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].start |
15094.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].end |
15118.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].text |
談到民事的時候你們要求他們要聘請兩位專職的編審兩到三位嘛 對不對那個編審都是很大勞啦就當過裁判主任啦 或者總編輯才能夠當編審的我記得這個決定是好的那現在我就很明確的要求你要去問民事問清楚他的編制有沒有落實因為你要求他 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].start |
15119.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].end |
15140.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].text |
做完這個決定之後的次日期的三個月他就要配備嘛第一個有沒有做到有沒有拚第二更重要的你找了一個大牢有這個鞭治啊你要讓他發揮功能嘛要尊敬人家嘛所以像這樣一個為什麼會出現這樣一個錯誤的假新聞引起大家恐慌的請鞭審能夠發揮他的功能好不好請他發揮功能另外我們就法論法嘛我們來看這個新聞既然出了問題從法律上去看 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].start |
15151.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].end |
15173.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].text |
廣電法第27條第三項的第一款違反法律強制或禁止規定涉違法的六十三之一第五條這個散佈謠言這個假新聞是不是有類似這樣的性質他連罰則都是有的第三項的第四款自播新聞違反事實的查證的這個原則 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].start |
15176.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].end |
15201.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].text |
各位報告我們這塊處理必須要前後一致我們過往這方面的處理都要上委員會議目前我們沒有委員會議所以這邊程序上我們必須要跟過往的我們過往的作為必須會拘束到我們自己所以這邊的裁罰案所以你就該罵嘛你在講說現在沒有委員沒有足夠的委員可以上禮拜林國成林委問你還說你要趕快去反映啊你看一下這個法令的規定我們已經修法通過啦修法通過啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].start |
15204.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].end |
15208.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].text |
我們在去年的7月16號修正第4條11月15號修正的第16條12月1號已經正式實施了明定三個月內要補足 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].start |
15219.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].end |
15240.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].text |
補足是什麼時候 今年的3月1號 會不會四月了 過一個月了之前在行政院啊 行政院要提名對不對 你是代理主委你要趕快去提醒啊你這不是失職了嗎 各位報告 台灣民主黨有提一個案子我們就是有那個程序 我們已經報到院裡頭去了 所以院裡頭應該知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].start |
15240.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].end |
15247.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].text |
所以你去提醒 那真正失職的在行政院院長記不提醒嘛 你看你的業務 你剛講到你說你要裁罰 要討論 委員都沒辦法開 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].start |
15250.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].end |
15273.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].text |
立法院明定的你要趕快補提名時間都過了好不好不要讓院長繼續失職下去好 謝謝委員那民視這個事情我剛講的讓大佬讓那些邊省可以發揮應有的功能請他們要去注意不要再發生假的新聞或者驚悚的新聞這對人民是不好的第二 該有的罰者要罰你不能雙標 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].start |
15275.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].end |
15291.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].text |
沒有我們中天如果發生在中天要關台關一次我們過往做的程序上要上委員會這邊我們必須要做一致的處理所以你是要等委員會OK那就不要讓院長這句事趕快提醒他趕快提名好不好好謝謝謝謝張祺凱委員現在請王宏威委員執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].start |
15303.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].end |
15309.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].text |
好謝謝主席我先請我們NCC的主委陳代主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].start |
15313.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].end |
15338.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].text |
主委剛才就是您有答應委員會就是有關於我們電信管制射頻器材的規費收費標準在自用第二級電信管制射頻器材輸入核准審查費每件750元這個是要把它廢掉我們會朝修正方向來處理修正就是把這一欄拿掉目前最大主任名義是免收 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].start |
15339.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].end |
15355.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].text |
免收但是我要提醒主委在之前今年的2月份我在總質詢的時候那時候你站在我們的卓院長旁邊當時我就在問這750塊錢是亂當時你就說會停徵會停徵那時候院長也覺得這是不妥的 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].start |
15365.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].end |
15375.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].text |
但是沒想到呢在總質詢之後你們NCC就發新聞稿然後呢就加了一個尾巴說停偵一年停偵一年那時候我就很納悶而且我覺得在堂堂的議場之上的總質詢本來說停偵 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].start |
15384.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].end |
15405.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].text |
下來之後 變成新聞稿 就變成停真一年 只停真一年所以我想請問一下 你今天會廢止是指廢止一年嗎 還廢止兩年 還是就是廢止要講清楚啊 不要等到今天的委員會結束之後你覺得反正你那個挨過委員會之後 回去又我刑我訴 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].start |
15406.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].end |
15424.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].text |
好跟我們回報第一點我們當時2月25會當時在院會回答委員的之所以會這麼講是因為第一個時間關係第二個我當時委員要求我們當天要發信用稿我們信用稿是扣活著2月14財政部的回函他是同意我們停政一年 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].start |
15424.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].end |
15439.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].text |
當時你告訴我要停徵啊所以我就說我們應該要留下白紙黑字不要到時候你又沒有再做結果呢你發了新聞稿變成停徵一年所以我要講的我們NCC這個信用會打折扣的所以你這今天的委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].start |
15441.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].end |
15454.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].text |
就是承諾委員會的事情你就要說到做到好不好停徵就停徵停徵一年跟停徵一年跟停徵跟停徵一年不一樣好嗎我們會在停徵一年期間會完成法規修正 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].start |
15456.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].end |
15485.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].text |
之後你應該之前吧不然的話你提針 要針啊對不對一年內我們會把它完整就是要聽針了啦另外請教一下這個過去也有委員在提到的就是你們現在因為我們現在在發展無人機但無人機並不是只有國防的使用它還有很多其他的用途民用的部分通訊用的部分甚至農業等等之類的 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].start |
15486.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].end |
15505.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].text |
那麼現在呢因為在無人機上要佈建雷達一下要收幾千萬的這個規費所以這個會影響我們整個無人機產業的一個發展所以我想請問NCC你們還要收這麼多的錢嗎不會影響我們無人機的佈建不會影響這些所謂的關鍵基礎設施嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].start |
15511.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].end |
15537.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].text |
好 謝謝委員給我機會來澄清這個應該是報導有誤基本上它應該是平均使用費然後呢我跟委員報告NCC所主管的這個網路審查費電台審查費審驗費執照費全部加起來也不過9200然後這個如果它是用雷達它定位屬於專用電信的電台它大概平均使用費會比較貴所以是數位過了再收是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].start |
15538.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].end |
15554.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].text |
但是跟委員報告因為像事業不成立之前是我的主管我相對清楚那以前在桃園機上不是啊你一個人要收多少錢因為我時間有限他可以收0塊錢因為他收的辦法第2條規定說暴行政院符合公共利益是免收 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].start |
15555.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].end |
15581.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].text |
你現在所謂符合公共利益是哪一些呢你準備要哪一些除了因為你現在本來是軍用的免收嘛那但是我跟你講有八大關鍵基礎設施不是只有軍用喔還有交通的啊還有水資源的啊還金融啊什麼還高科技等等能源的我想請問一下是不是只要你符合這些關鍵基礎設施的無人機部件雷達通通可以免收是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].start |
15583.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].end |
15601.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].text |
因為現在權責在數位部好來正好數位部來時間暫停一下來正式對趕快來回答一下如果NC都這麼大方他免收他說他將近收一萬塊而已他可以免收那問題是其他的部分你們再收費的部分呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].start |
15602.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].end |
15624.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].text |
跟主委報告因為這個目前並沒有收到那個業者的申請那因為這個無人機的部分他有雷達的部分也有干擾那個干擾槍的部分那他到底要用哪樣什麼樣的頻率我們並沒有具體的這個資料申請資料所以我們現在很難回答你們現在應該什麼收費因為按照現在電信管理法你們只能按電台收費啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].start |
15625.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].end |
15635.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].text |
是 可不可以委員請我們資源司司長幫忙回答趕快具體回答 跟委員報告因為主要是第一個他設的就是寬頻雷達其實寬頻雷達的頻段裡面有涵蓋既有的行動通信的頻段所以如果是一般人來申請的話他其實有嚴重干擾既有通信的之餘所以這個部分我們會審慎來去審查他建置的費用 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].start |
15654.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].end |
15682.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].text |
如果照我們目前看到有些業者的話他使用的頻寬很寬的話可能會到上達數千萬數千萬對好那因為呢我剛剛講這八大關鍵的基礎設施他們應該都會達數千萬所以因為像剛才NC說只要符合公益性或者是這個關鍵基礎設施因為過去是軍用的部分可以免收那我想請問一下那麼你們以速發部的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].start |
15683.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].end |
15704.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].text |
符合八大關鍵基礎設施還是要收嗎還是可以免收這個我們如果是關鍵基礎設施的主管機關然後評估確有限制的這個需求的話那這個部分我們由關鍵基礎設施的這個主管機關然後提出我現在具體的提出這個要求和建議 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].start |
15705.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].end |
15734.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].text |
因為如果無人機的發展是國家的一個政策不管是產業還有我們作為關鍵基礎設施但是呢我們現在電信管理法它的法並不完備那麼它都要適用於電台所以使得它的規費收費標準變得很高變得很高當然我們現在有一些是商用的完全的商用性的那但是有這個屬於關鍵基礎設施的所以你們就應該把它去做釐清 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].start |
15735.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].end |
15754.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].text |
好不好因為現在看起來聽你們的回答我覺得還是比較模糊的因為時間有限我想可不可以請我們的NCC和我們的述發部針對我關心的這公領運的部分跟你們補充報告我們大概上次交通委員會已經有委員提這個我們今天下午大概就會開會這兩個部會來協調來確認這個後續相關的一些怎麼處理下午就會開會你們今天下午開會會有結論嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].start |
15763.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].end |
15787.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].text |
應該會確定一些原則你們如果有一些結論的話也趕快這樣提供給外界也提供給我們那個委員會還有我們辦公室好嗎好可以吧好謝謝謝謝委員好謝謝王宏威委員接下來蔓依貞委員提出書面的執行所以現在我們請游浩委員執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].start |
15796.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].end |
15811.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].text |
呃謝謝主席那要有請就是陳主委好陳代主委那也再接著也有請我們說話部的次長好那個林次長次長竹山也幫忙難度很多啊那 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].start |
15813.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].end |
15823.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].text |
剛才在延續紅衛委員所質詢的內容那這750之亂那當然說我們也看到NCC確實也要做停偵那時候我記得是紅衛委員第一時間就開了記者會來幫我們民眾的心聲反映出這個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].start |
15830.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].end |
15854.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].text |
那當然說那時候有提到說包括廖宣祥文有提到不應該八三成批嘛那包括不管是原本海關的這個費用包括兩千塊以上的費用還有包括這個再收一次審查費那當然說目前來講也做一個停徵的動作那停徵一年那本席還是希望說未來的話這個相關法會在盡快修訂完之後那就是確定停徵 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].start |
15855.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].end |
15881.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].text |
那接著的話就是剛才廖先祥委員在質詢的時候其實有給我們大家辦公室有很大的一個啟發因為民眾現在可能會很關心一些問題那這可能有些需要請事發布補充那就像目前來講先姑且不論賴清的總統他在發表言論之後造成這個台海的局勢算是嚴重的升溫那現在我們也看到這相關的軍演不管是 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].start |
15882.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].end |
15907.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].text |
陸防那邊或是我國國軍的部分在軍演的這個部分那也都可以看得出來在民眾對於這個兩岸如果發生戰事的時候感到擔憂那同樣的在氣象署他也在前兩天也有特別警示說假如發生大地震的話也請民眾在就是這兩週也要密切來注意那所以說這回歸到許多民眾就開始擔心 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].start |
15908.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].end |
15921.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].text |
那在NCC他管理我們國內的三大電信業者那在目前來講假如發生戰事或發生這個重大災難的時候啊那目前的通訊有沒有什麼預備方案 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].start |
15923.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].end |
15937.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].text |
我們平時會要求他做這個多路由的一些備援備份做好加強他的韌性強度然後業者也做有很多一些替代方案的就比方說他過往的路由可能都不只一條會有兩條 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].start |
15938.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].end |
15952.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].text |
那行網部分它會有一些 假設某個記憶檯失效了它會把周邊的記憶檯做一些來協力 可能加大一些功力來處理那目前這一塊的處理是這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].start |
15953.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].end |
15973.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].text |
那我當然是能夠理解說好那目前基地台加大功率或是能夠互相互補或是能夠擴大範圍但是如果假如是發生戰事的時候局部區包括基地台如果被摧毀的時候假如啦那因為我們大家必須防範未來因為民眾確實也擔憂那像這樣子來講的話包括正常的通訊還能夠維持嗎因為如果是地面上的 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].start |
15979.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].end |
15991.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].text |
掛掉了假設海欄又掛掉那怎麼靠衛星衛星的頻寬有限到時候就是搶頻寬資源但是搶頻寬資源必須基於國家安全會用國家安全相關單位會優先使用那對啊所以說民眾到時候是沒有網路可以用 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].start |
15993.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].end |
16016.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].text |
我知道數位部有佈建一些700多次店但是也是主要是公益使用我根本請數位部來補充好那沒關係我先接著問好了那這樣子目前來講像我們現在都送這種iPhone的手機啊那這種的話都是無線的也必須要就是比方以前大家都會用耳機那這樣子假如暫時的時候沒有通訊的時候那這種Apple的這種手機還能夠聽廣播嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].start |
16020.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].end |
16047.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].text |
早期很多手機都有內建這個收聽FMFM現在比較少必須要選擇購買的時候必須要看一下它貴個行李裡頭有沒有含這項功能沒有的話大概就沒有那所以說假如這個到那種情況的時候那原則上大家說手機不能通不能夠使用的時候大家必須要聽廣播但是現在的大家許多的新手機來講可能因為沒有網路沒有訊號所以也沒辦法聽廣播沒有錯吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].start |
16047.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].end |
16076.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].text |
所以一般一些緊急救護包裡頭會有一個收音機這種設計的原因大概也是在這邊所以你還是希望說大家去準備這個緊急的一個急難包它裡面要有收音機嗎就是看每個人的取捨啦但是這個資訊可以讓大家都知道像一些緊急的地震什麼救難包裡頭大概都會有手電筒啊收音機啊這些 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].start |
16077.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].end |
16104.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].text |
因為我們現在來講不僅是怕有戰事發生那同樣的我們也會擔心說會不會有大地震嘛那所以這些東西都是大家平常需要去做防範未然嘛那再來我要接著問像4年60億的這個災難漫遊計畫那時候是主要是針對這個戰爭通訊我們現在來講可能也會擔心會不會有大型的這種天災地震因為畢竟我們氣象署也提出警示那這樣子的一個計畫目前實施進度為何 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].start |
16106.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].end |
16131.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].text |
跟委員報告如果台灣發生重大的天災或者是區域衝突的時候我們速發部主要是要在網路通訊上面一方面要確保台灣能對外通聯另外一個是我們要確保台灣內部能通聯那對外能通聯的話我們主要就是透過衛星還有微波還有那個光纖海嵐的備援我們盡量做備援避免被光纖海嵐被切斷 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].start |
16132.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].end |
16156.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].text |
然後對內來講的話我們第一個就是說又分成兩個部分來做第一個就是我們確定說我們這個基地台有電力的供應那這個當然需要那個台電等那個就是他們來幫忙那另外一個就是我們在那個手機要使用的話必須有所謂的合網就是那個三大像那個中華電信台灣大各大還有那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].start |
16157.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].end |
16182.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].text |
遠傳電性的那個機房萬一他們機房被破壞或者是因為地震會摧毀的時候我們就是有一個機制就是他們可以互相備援譬如說其中有一家他的機房壞掉了那我們的所有的手機就可以緊急的轉換到其他兩家的那個機房的合網設施去使用所以目前來講假如發生這種特殊情況的時候三家電信業者的機台是可以互相來做備援的 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].start |
16182.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].end |
16207.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].text |
是我們之前提出的預算就是有一些就是要做這方面的工作那如果說那回頭來講我再接著請教NCC代理主委就是如果說像假如發生這種天災或是戰禍的這種情況之下民眾要如何接收消息除了廣播之外電視的時候還能看嗎還收得到嗎還是就必須要透過什麼樣的形式來接收到相關的疏散的或是救難的訊息 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].start |
16209.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].end |
16232.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].text |
無線電視只要它有電源的話應該還是收容到但是前提是要無線電視的那個轉播站台沒有被破壞還存在但是相對的它的架台也會相對是比較有機會還是存在但是廣播會比較更快因為廣播它的架設時間成本都比較門檻比較低比較容易架設 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].start |
16234.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].end |
16243.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].text |
那所以到時候像是電視的部分原廠也比較沒有辦法接收到訊息了嗎只要他發射站轉播站都還在都一樣可以接收一樣可以收得到 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].start |
16244.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].end |
16272.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].text |
好OK那好那我就接著希望說台灣無災啦那也希望說目前來講台灣的局勢能夠降溫啦那但是我們更要讓民眾能夠藉由這樣子的提醒內容來如果說有任何的天災的時候大家要如何反反未然嘛那我想最後再請主委這邊再補充一下如果說除了像是就是廣播的那個收音機之外還有什麼要給大家做提醒的 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].start |
16272.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].end |
16294.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].text |
我相信這個相關的部會應該有在盤點應該是內政部他現在最近都有做一些相關的一些一些宣導宣告我相信那邊應該都會有即便是平時的這個天災颱風等等那些都消防署消防單位都會有這些這些宣導 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].start |
16295.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].end |
16318.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].text |
那我還是希望說在NCC這裡面還是要扮演角色啦因為畢竟管理三大電信業者的話那這個責任也是不管是任何的一個突發狀況緊急的一個情況的時候那還是希望能夠跟三大業者去做協調因為畢竟就是如果大家保持一個良好的通訊那相信很多事情來講就比較傷害跟混亂可以造成最低啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].start |
16319.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].end |
16326.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].text |
會的 我們會要求第三大業者持續精進他的網路服務好 謝謝謝謝委員好 謝謝游浩委員現在請鄭天才委員執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].start |
16346.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].end |
16364.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].text |
主席 各位委員有請國家通訊傳播委員會陳主委好 陳代主委還有數位發展部林次長好 數位部林次長大家辛苦了 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].start |
16367.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].end |
16394.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].text |
這個天下雜誌在2023年的一個報導這個台灣為以開發國家備詐金額最高的國家以網路電信這方面的一個詐騙然後這個監察院在去年也通過了政府防制電信網路詐欺這個是相關的這些詐欺案 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].start |
16395.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].end |
16420.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].text |
嚴重這個非常的也提出這個相關的對策跟檢討這裡面特別提到詐騙國安危機全國招詐500億這樣的一個非常嚴重所以相關這些當然打詐司法也通過了但是並沒有遏止這些詐騙的這個案件 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].start |
16424.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].end |
16452.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].text |
近五年詐欺案件不斷的升高剛提到去年502.5億所以這裡面相關這樣的一個案例層出不窮所以先請教國家通訊傳播委員會到底政府有什麼樣的救年NCC有什麼樣的因應措施 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].start |
16452.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].end |
16466.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].text |
是的跟各位報告政府是這個團隊的合作施炸、堵炸、防炸、堵炸、懲炸是由五個部會來處理NCC是負責堵炸這一塊我們主要是攔阻這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].start |
16469.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].end |
16494.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].text |
異常的電話還有跟簡訊那電話部分大概這邊的成效大概都已經出來所以他都轉移到其他地方簡訊部分特別是商業簡訊這邊我們大概去年9月10月開始推以來那目前的成效大概去年10月到今年1月件數被通報165通報件數都是零但是他大概就轉移到比較偏網路那一塊那這邊我們都會持續協同相關部會來努力 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].start |
16495.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].end |
16521.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].text |
這個主詐這是最重要的怎麼樣讓這個人民不要受到這個詐騙所以這個主詐很重要所以這個部分這個要去持續的繼續的去加強你剛剛說有這個成效書面的資料提供好沒問題那個數位發展部你們有什麼樣因應的 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].start |
16521.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].end |
16550.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].text |
是 在反詐方面數位發展部的職責主要是要避免民眾在Facebook Google以及Line這樣的社群平台上面被騙到一個私訊裡面通常詐騙集團它事實上是有一個產業鏈的剛開始會在Facebook Google或者是Twitter上面講說我是謝金河我賺了很多錢希望你加入我的群組這個時候他就把人騙到一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].start |
16551.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].end |
16579.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].text |
那個小房間裡面那我們速發布就是要避免民眾被騙進去那我們的具體作為有分成兩部分第一個是法律方面法律方面我們非常感謝那個立法院在去年我們通過了打詐專法那從今年的1月開始不管是Facebook Line或者是在Google上面所有的廣告都必須採取實名制我們就確定說只有謝金河本人才能那個發廣告說他是謝金河 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].start |
16579.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].end |
16604.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].text |
那另外一方面我們是透過那個簡訊以及那個我們的網站通告查詢網的方式我們就是想辦法把盡快的把這些仿冒名人還有假投資的詐騙想辦法讓他盡快的下架那我們跟那個Facebook跟Line跟那個Google也都建立很好的溝通管道我們可以在很快的時間裡面把這些詐騙訊息下架有成效嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].start |
16605.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].end |
16632.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].text |
是 那個我想委員我們可以注意到就是說現在在Facebook上面譬如說假冒那個謝金和假冒陳文茜這一類的廣告已經大幅下降了這個我想很多人都注意到 媒體也有報導這個部分這兩個機關要加油 要加強因為我們在整個所了解到的是都是警察在忙啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].start |
16633.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].end |
16654.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].text |
檢查非常忙,忙著這個都是一個需要去加強的部分所以今天這個今天的幾個電信管理法的一個修正非常非常的有它的必要性 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].start |
16656.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].end |
16671.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].text |
這個以NCC的報告裡面這個還要期待行政院提出修法草案事實上立委已經提出了修法的草案到底要怎麼樣會更好 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].start |
16672.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].end |
16698.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].text |
你們直接在審查會的時候就提出來 而不必等到行政院的這個法案因為這個是迫不及待的一個 需要去解決的部分所以這個部分要請這個NCC這邊如果相關的法案 如果條文認為怎麼樣修會更好這個大家都可以共同的來去審查好的 我們會一起努力 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].start |
16699.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].end |
16726.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].text |
這個NCC最後你的經費凍結案什麼時候可以送解凍報告我們盡快因為還在程序中我們會盡快這個1月20幾號立法院就三讀通過了這個預算案就應該先準備好了總統在3月公告了這個預算案應該就可以送來了為什麼不能送來 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].start |
16727.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].end |
16751.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].text |
好 我們會盡快 謝謝委員什麼叫盡快就是我們完成該有程序之後就會送出這很容易啊 照理應該一月二十幾號三讀通過應該就準備好了就應該就可以所以已經四月了呢這個過去三月就開始審查解凍案了呢好不好好 沒問題謝謝謝謝委員謝謝委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].start |
16754.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].end |
16782.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].text |
好 謝謝鄭天才委員現在請鄭振淺委員鄭振淺委員鄭振淺委員不在現在請喜智傑委員執行主席我們請主委好 陳代主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].start |
16787.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].end |
16788.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].text |
各位好 各位剛剛那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].start |
16791.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].end |
16819.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].text |
750元這個審查費已經很多元都談很多了啦那現在就是說我們希望說你們趕快朝免徵的方向去進行嘛是這個部分沒有問題嗎沒有沒有問題所以那個程序上我想我們就不用管那麼多啦那就是說這個是一個精神跟原則那希望說NCC盡快就是所有的程序可以處理的我們就盡快處理我們在處理的範圍內我一定會全力處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].start |
16820.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].end |
16843.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].text |
就往這個方向去處理 我們這個案子三黨好不容易有個共識大家都一致希望說不要再爭了 這750元我們會有個共同的提案 也希望說主委能夠盡量配合這個方向其實你有一個很簡單的觀念 民眾 他們是自己用的 你就不要收了他們做生意我們不會說嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].start |
16845.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].end |
16864.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].text |
我知道你那裡有七類嘛 對不對就是有前六類有做到生意的做到生意的基本上你們有你們的管理方式我覺得那個應該還是可以考量只是說純粹他個人的需要他出國回來 帶一行 帶兩行回來你再叫他 帶一隻兒子回來你再叫他 現在有什麼審查會 現在有沒有比較好 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].start |
16871.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].end |
16877.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].text |
就個人使用的一項或兩項少數的就不用再收了就朝這個方向去處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].start |
16879.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].end |
16906.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].text |
好 那個我們的海嵐船我們的海嵐經常受到那個船把我們的鉤壞嘛 對不對近年來鉤了好很多很多次那我想我們如何去預防那NCC每一次都回答說你們只要有鉤壞啦你們在24小時值班會盡量把它恢復盡量修復等等的啦這個是比較消極的作為那你們比較積極的作為 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].start |
16908.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].end |
16937.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].text |
這陣子有沒有抓到人這幾年來最近有現場抓到是台澎台澎海巡署有把船押回港內我知道我是只要數目字你抓到一件嘛對不對對勾匯了這五年來有多少件五年內我就詳細數據該列了幾十件對不對差不多對啊結果呢只抓到一件 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].start |
16939.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].end |
16962.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].text |
屬於國際海嵐部分因為它是你們不是有要求中華電信嗎對要有運維船海嵐自己修復船的大概養一台海嵐修復船的成本太高當初中華電信也有評估過大概比較所以你們要求他們是說做不到還是怎麼樣他們是認為說目前還沒辦法達到沒錯 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].start |
16963.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].end |
16987.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].text |
好那你們盡快溝通啦我是覺得就是說你總是要有一些積極作為嘛是關老是消極作為人家現在有那個裝甲的電纜技術可以直接沉很深幾十公里幫你剪斷那醫藥事情都要處理不完這個我們會要求中華電信跟都是來繼續努力盡快想一個積極可以處理的作為好不好好 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].start |
16989.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].end |
17007.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].text |
那再來國際詐騙電話其實我要求很多次我看你們是有進步啦有進步你們好像宣傳的不太夠你們那個過濾掉的狀況現在在你們所做的有沒有什麼具體的成果可以簡單描述一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].start |
17009.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].end |
17018.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].text |
簡單來講就是藍組的部分從113年最高峰到現在其實偽造這個國內的電話部分藍組部分大概藍掉87%最高值跟現在的現況來比那偽裝是國內的行動部分藍組 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].start |
17028.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].end |
17043.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].text |
將近98%都攔掉了所以他現在詐騙集團這一塊國際電話的那一塊都比較在165舉報那邊都比較少了我看你那個結果就是國際來話化物量從最多的時候是5000多萬通 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].start |
17046.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].end |
17067.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].text |
現在是500多萬通所以這是你們的成果有成果總是要宣導因為其實我那時候跟你們提過就是說你做一個伺服器那它發出去那有國際異常進來其實你就不要直接你用轉接你這邊如果說可以去計算它的那個進來的化量在一天裡面異常 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].start |
17068.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].end |
17092.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].text |
一般國際電話卡進來,若不是詐騙的,做生意的他不會說一天接通電話一直卡到不一樣的地方所以你們用這樣子去攔截這個發號行為也在我們這個防護的一個考量參數之一我的意思是說有成果要講一下,雖然500多萬通過很多啦,大家也是要買啦但是就算你們已經阻掉4500萬通的總是要講一下啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].start |
17095.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].end |
17123.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].text |
這樣好不好 做的要講方針嘛當然你做不夠的 再繼續讓你嘛 好不好再來就是我再建議一下就是說你那個手機的那個接聽警示是不是可以再加強那以及就是你的成果跟防災意識我們繼續來宣導希望說積極啦 照片電話真的是很討厭那我想你們應該是盡量再多用一點心讓國園少售片為主 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].start |
17124.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].end |
17147.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].text |
好 謝謝委員其實我們持續在努力在未來的網路電話那邊也一樣會引入類似的機制好 辛苦 謝謝好 OK謝謝委員 謝謝好 謝謝喜事節召委的執行現在葉延之委員葉延之 葉延之不在好完了嗎沒有了好 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].start |
17149.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].end |
17167.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].text |
登記執行委員已花言完畢 作為以下的決定一 報告及執行完畢二 委員麥義貞委員提出書面執行 首題書面執行列入記錄並刊登公報 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].start |
17168.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].end |
17186.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].text |
三 委員執行中要求提供相關書面資料或未及答覆部分請國家通信傳播委員會儘速以書面答型所以我們的答型的部分就 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].start |
17188.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].end |
17208.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].text |
到現在來接下來我們討論進行討論事項先處理第一案的行政命令部分因為本案是行政命令所以不以先讀條文也不足調審查現在有提 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].start |
17210.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].end |
17231.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].text |
好分別應處理核准之電信管管制攝影器材以及電信管理攝頻器材製造輸入及申請作業管理辦法修正修正案在這個部分我們請邀請 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].start |
17236.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].end |
17257.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].text |
請通常會說明各位委員不曉得有沒有意見好沒有的話我們請通常會說明不需要站起來直接說明就好因為我們謝謝法務部黃政次因為這個業務跟他無關所以請他先請離席謝謝我們黃政次謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].start |
17265.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].end |
17268.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].text |
這位委員有沒有意見 因為他遵照辦理有沒有意見沒有意見就結議 今同意被查 報請宴會存查 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].start |
17290.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].end |
17305.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].text |
好接下來我們就第二案的電信管理業務規會收費標準第14條第14條條文的修正那有委員提案一併請我們先讀先讀 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].start |
17315.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].end |
17344.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].text |
提案一案 規費法第十條第一項規定業務主管機關應依下列原則訂定或調整收費基準並減負成本資料洽商該級政府規費主管機關同意並送該級民意機關備查鑒於國家通訊常務委員會所擬之電信管理業務規費收費標準第十四條附表九修正後電信管制色評器材規費收費標準表資致用第二級電信管制 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].start |
17345.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].end |
17360.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].text |
設平器材輸入核准審查費違依法就所修正之收費項目減付成本資料及修正之具體理由違反規範法規定原依立法院職權行使法第62條第1項 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].start |
17363.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].end |
17379.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].text |
此部分決議部與備查其餘更正相關修法引發社會大眾對該收費費額有無收取必要執行方式比例費額大小是否恰當與能否達到行政目的之疑慮原請通傳會針對該表新針 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].start |
17383.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].end |
17396.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].text |
不予被查之審查費重新審視其必要性與合理性予以修正並為適當之處理其餘部分者同意被查抵押人委員您國懲等宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].start |
17398.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].end |
17417.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].text |
好 各位這個現在我們這個提案是多數委員提案提案委員 洪孟楷 邱若驊黃健豪 陳雪生 蔡其昌 喜智傑魯明哲 廖先祥以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].start |
17419.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].end |
17447.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].text |
還有遊浩遊浩委員那請問一下針對這些修正案除了收賄的其餘部分同意被查但是收賄的部分是不已被查所以大家有沒有意見好沒有意見我們就是通有沒有好的這是提案這是提案這是提案要不要說明一下來陳代書委 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].start |
17449.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].end |
17453.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].text |
其他部分剛剛你已經宣讀過了所以我們就按照正式辦理沒問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].start |
17459.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].end |
17486.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].text |
照案辦理是講這個案嘛好那我們現在就做成這個部分的結議通過結議一項本案其中新增之自用第二級電信管制攝頻器材輸入核准審查會不已被查請國家通信傳播委員會予以更正其以部分准以被查 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].start |
17488.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].end |
17492.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].text |
那各位委員有沒有意見沒有好沒有意見我們就做成以上的結議好 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].start |
17495.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].end |
17518.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].text |
那今天我們另外就是電信管理法審查的部分也謝謝各位委員現在那因為總共有七案的部分七案的部分那這七案的部分我在看主管機關跟我們提案委員在這裡我特別拜託NCC及有關單位在這段時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].start |
17520.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].end |
17548.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].text |
都跟委員提案委員來做充分溝通取得共識之後我們另定期繼續來審查各位委員這樣有沒有意見好沒有意見的話我們要拜託NCC主管機關要跟提案委員去做說明取得一個共識這樣的話我們擇期再審才有一個共識好不好好 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].start |
17550.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].end |
17573.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].text |
好 針對今天的會議做以下的決議一 討論四項第一案行政命令部分應經核准之電信管理設平器材及電信管制設平器材製造輸入及申請作業管理辦法修正案 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].start |
17574.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].end |
17599.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].text |
並按審查完略依據立法院職前行使法第62條第二項規定彌據審查報告報請院會存查電信管理業務規規會說會標準第14條之修正條文修正審查完略依據立法院職前行使法第62條第一項規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].start |
17603.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].end |
17618.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].text |
擬據審查報告連同通過之結議案提報應會討論通過國家通信傳播委員會的更正以上三案部分更正 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].start |
17619.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].end |
17633.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].text |
部分更正以上商案宴會討論前不需交由黨團協商宴會討論時由林昭吉委員做補充說明以上會議的結議有沒有意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].start |
17637.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].end |
17651.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].text |
好沒意見好接下來討論提案第二案的部分令定期繼續細審大家有沒有意見好沒有意見本次會議結束上會謝謝大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].start |
17665.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].end |
17695.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].text |
響鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].start |
17695.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].end |
17711.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].text |
謝謝 |