| IVOD_ID |
165625 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165625 |
| 日期 |
2025-11-19 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-4-36-9 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期司法及法制委員會第9次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
9 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
36 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
司法及法制委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期司法及法制委員會第9次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-11-19T12:08:26+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-11-19T12:19:49+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:11:23 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/9c5448532e3833d1b0c0a4dadcbadf627e24dce8f91e16ee90886039ce1be0fd5aed41defc5d99185ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
王義川 |
| 委員發言時間 |
12:08:26 - 12:19:49 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-11-19T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期司法及法制委員會第9次全體委員會議（事由：邀請司法院副秘書長、法務部部長、法務部調查局局長、行政院打擊詐欺指揮中心指揮官、內政部警政署署長、數位發展部、國家通訊傳播委員會、經濟部、金融監督管理委員會、個人資料保護委員會籌備處等就「太子集團涉詐案、跨部會防詐及打詐成效，以及參考新加坡打詐鞭刑入法之可行性評估」進行專題報告，並備質詢。） |
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好 主席 謝謝接下來我也不知道要請誰上來請問如果行政院長要問說現在打炸打得怎麼樣來做個報告誰會上場報告就自己出來好 請打炸中心馬指揮官好 指揮官你是負責報告嗎對 我負責報告那你報告就報告儀表板是不是 |
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報委員不是 其實我們有針對那個打仗行動綱領2.0我們有列管所有部會的績效好 那你們就是報告統計結果也不只 因為跟委員報我們主要是看整個詐騙案它發展的趨勢我知道 因為我看到你們中心的編制你們中心可以開放參觀嗎我們可以 我們只有10個人 很小沒辦法參觀啦 10個人裡面有什麼偉大的設備嗎只有辦公桌跟電腦 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
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所以這個打炸中心聽起來就是一個類似匯報的單位我們是幕僚單位就是定期然後各部會帶著自己的資訊來大家匯報一下而且我們會預先部署很多政策那我請問一下中華民國如果要找到一個負責打炸的單位你就應該找誰 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
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其實跟委員報告我們分散在好幾個部會所以我剛問說行政院長要問這件事情的時候到底誰要負責報告跟委員報告 我們會負責會診但是如果有特定的議題的話會找特定的部會報告那就代表沒有專責機構沒有錯因為我看你們的人員編制裡頭那些都是各單位派來的那派來的那些人都懂打詐嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
117.961 |
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報委 我們都是請部會派最好的人過來我在地方也當過局長我們市府都有一些很高層級的中心 委員會 編組各局處要派人去 都派那個層級很高的然後基本上都沒什麼效果 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
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我們有面談 所以我們跟委員會面談以後好啦 我只是提醒你們說中華民國真的要找到一個專責負責打炸的這個單位現在沒有啦是就是這個在院裡頭可能要討論一下因為國際上應該很多國家也有這種比較先進的設備啦 人員啦這一些編制比較好打炸啦好 謝謝你謝謝委員好 現在我們請這個警政署這個署長委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
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這個基層的員警啊我在這個今年我也好像也問過警政署啊我們的偵查隊啊有人專門在每天都在辦這個詐騙 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
181.69 |
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189.493 |
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大家抽頭 案件都多 民眾不惜 說我又去用詐騙了那我們的員警也披靡本命 因為人力編織的問題披靡本命我請問一下 我們這些員警在處理這種詐騙案件的時候 他們到底有沒有受過訓練 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
200.953 |
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有 包委員 那我們對於員警的偵查犯罪那都會做定期的一個教育跟訓練那會做這樣的一個現行詐欺的整個相關的案例還有相關的這個手法那這些詐騙的這個整個的一個技巧 技術 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
225.461 |
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240.637 |
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我那些都不定時會去做那上上課老師是誰老師是有師資包括有刑事局包括有大隊的刑警大隊的偵查隊的偵查大隊的這些的一個專精的這些的偵查大隊他們學這個的老師是誰 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
243.688 |
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257.232 |
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他這個老師應該有一些也是也有我們業界的相關的這個知識的這些的你不覺得賣相的比較賣相的沒有啦 都賣相的 譬如講現在大學都我請問一下啦現在最主要在於科技偵查的部分我請問一下 警察大學裡頭的老師因為你警察大學都教出來以後當警察嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
266.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
290.179 |
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警察大學的教授副教授 助理教授現在有多少老師專門在研究詐騙目前在學校裡面大概有四位有做專精的研究詐騙中華民國四位警察大學教授還有業界外的外聘人員因為第一線交出來的警察我請問一下這些課都開在什麼系 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
291.906 |
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316.942 |
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那多看看刑事科系刑事科的刑事科我剛查那個相關的科系的老師列出來的專長喔都沒有人有詐騙的所以有些他剛才都做了一半轉過來的啦有的是有的就是說學校裡面的當然他是對這方面有做研究啊我沒有外聘的這個師資我知道外聘的外聘的跟裡面的來做兼任的老師啦對對兼任的老師 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
321.545 |
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328.155 |
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研究一下啦 這裡警察大學啊學校研究一下 跟教保討論一下既然這詐騙啊 現在是新興的這個犯罪這個裡面老師啦 課程幫我們這個員警啊不只警察大學啦 包括我們的警專 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
338.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
340.846 |
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在這個基層員警上課在學校上課就要學一些新的啦不然我們的員警查詐騙的技術遠遠不如詐騙集團我問報告的 我們行事局都是會調全國的各縣市的 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
357.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
361.127 |
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來到中央來做訓練來做訓練訓練完之後再回去當種植的球員都是會做這樣不斷的對科技偵查的一個這樣的一個訓練可是對於偵查隊來講他們的基隆派來做詐騙的真好有時候他就說這個要上那個要上啦回去再辦案啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
376.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
381.241 |
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大家都很累 人力沒那麼多所以我們共同努力對啦 若是說這個學校裡面就已經有到這幾分了他們就會就課程多開一點學生選修也可以那往這個方向可能以後再查這些案子的時候轉捲一點不然你喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
397.165 |
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400.989 |
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外企員派來調查這個他也每天很苦惱的我接著很嚴謹的跟我說 哇這個大約一半的時間都在辦詐騙因為量多嘛 量多啦所以接的案件每一個的量 剛剛有講大概60%大概都在偵辦詐騙這一塊大概跟這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
415.766 |
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432.896 |
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警察大學或警專 跟教育部 大家討論一下看老師 師資的朋友 能夠給你們爭奪給 聘歸的跟專業的老師專門在教這個的啦我們的研究強化啦對 研究強化啦 我想這應該是沒人會反對啦好 接下來我請問一下 這個這應該是金管會銀行局啦 銀行局 好 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
442.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
468.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
我們現在這個詐騙的這個金流或者是洗錢的金流現在對你們來說你們都是一種比較被動的預警被動 對你們發現有異常通報跟委員報告 我們會主動的去相關的金流我們會主動偵測那如果發現有異常金流我們都會主動的好 那你們是單筆異常還是這家公司很異常 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
469.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
481.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
我們會從金流來看那公司本身我們會審查他的一些背景條件我跟你們記一下呢這間公司啊 假設每個月都差不多七百萬的進出通常他要出一條五百萬的 你會預計嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
484.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
513.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
就過去實務上來講這個就是有出現異常的情況那異常銀行他會先做初步的篩選他不會說有跳出來異常他就馬上申報因為這麼多的量他會癱瘓到了我們洗錢防治處他的這個效能所以銀行他會基本的篩選過認為有值得申報的這種情資他才會去做申報那因為這些案子會就是這些洗錢案會越來越多所以相關的這些 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
514.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
537.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
程序上也都已經完成這些通報可是還是讓這些人得逞那這些案子你們應該去彙整要有一些比較新的這個作為才不會說記錄上我們有通報我們有通報後面後端那個就是後邊的偵查的作為我們已經通報因為對後面的檢察官或者這些偵查的作為的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
538.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
557.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
他們也是按照你們的通報才有機會繼續往下查因為你們那一端是最陰暗這端是最快的只是說這個通報的機制按照過去的經驗包括在洗錢洗到各式各樣的硬幣或者各式各樣的這個幣幣的時候你們應該要有更積極的這樣因為這案件越來越多應該都有經驗那國際上大家怎麼洗的 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
564.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
579.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
在台灣怎麼洗的洗到哪裡洗到哪裡的這一些機制啊我是建議銀行局這邊要更加主動去改善啦不是說把事情做好而已因為對後面辦案的這個單位來說他也是接受你們的提醒嘛或者是通報他們才會有作為他不知道這個銀行那邊錢發生了什麼事嘛好這一塊再請你們這個努力啦好不好好那這個馬指揮官啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
595.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
620.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
你交代的事情你要處理 要不然高雄高雄縣長 總統說來報告一下打炸狀況你去你疑問三不知不喜可以表板都要幾件幾件 區市圖往下往上很有作為 說那個就不好說那個就老人 詐騙也是還在的高雄縣總統和縣長給你吐槽這句你又不能做什麼指揮官 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
621.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
650.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
我們總是要有一個你如果說今天你看委員要去參觀打詐中心是不是說10個人5隊多 現在一個比什麼棒這件事情跟院長我抱一下就是說要有一個看起來比較有性的東西嘛我們政府在打詐的東西比人家的詐騙集團都濃厚詐騙集團看你們辦公室看完回去就在笑我們會努力我們會努力這時候要把我們做 要打我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
651.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
679.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
誰被打還不知道我們部會的這個設備跟這些基本上都是夠的我們是做會診不是設備啦 設備要電腦而已我是說那個技術啦我相信國際上你們應該都有去參訪國際上能怎麼打炸那個專業單位回來跟院長報告一下說我們這個要怎麼樣改善不可以讓詐騙集團叫人家說在這邊打炸中心這個對面要跟我們打炸這樣好不好好 好 加油謝謝 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
682.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
682.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
好 謝謝 |