| IVOD_ID |
165620 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165620 |
| 日期 |
2025-11-19 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-4-36-9 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期司法及法制委員會第9次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
9 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
36 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
司法及法制委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期司法及法制委員會第9次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-11-19T11:53:22+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-11-19T12:08:19+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:14:57 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/9c5448532e3833d1e08920c2f818c4e17e24dce8f91e16ee90886039ce1be0fda67baeb4ac1f6ae45ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
沈發惠 |
| 委員發言時間 |
11:53:22 - 12:08:19 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-11-19T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期司法及法制委員會第9次全體委員會議（事由：邀請司法院副秘書長、法務部部長、法務部調查局局長、行政院打擊詐欺指揮中心指揮官、內政部警政署署長、數位發展部、國家通訊傳播委員會、經濟部、金融監督管理委員會、個人資料保護委員會籌備處等就「太子集團涉詐案、跨部會防詐及打詐成效，以及參考新加坡打詐鞭刑入法之可行性評估」進行專題報告，並備質詢。） |
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主席各位同仁在我開始請官員上來詢答之前我想針對今天的我們召委設定的主題其實它是有三個部分第一個部分是太子集團個案一個司法偵查中的個案第二個是跨部會防詐及打詐的成效這是第二個主題第三個主題就是剛才我們召委在最後做了論述的 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
38.238 |
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參考新加坡邊這個這個打詐邊行入法可行性的評估大概是三個主題那這個個案的部分我一向個人是非常的不贊同說在立法院的 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
53.412 |
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會議裡面討論正在偵查還在偵查中的個案拿出來立法院做專案討論這部分我個人非常的反對我們這個禮拜三天的委員會就兩天在討論個案我個人是不能溝通的所以這個個案的部分我今天就不質詢了我就不針對這個部分來討論那大概就針對後面兩個問題第一個就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
78.318 |
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這個法務部會打詐的成效另外一個就是所謂邊形入這個打詐邊形入法那我現在是不是先請法務部好 請鄭部長委員好部長好我想今天召委會排這樣的題目確實現在這是一般的民眾啦我們去認為一般民眾都認為台灣的詐騙 |
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107.009 |
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橫行而且甚至會覺得說好像全世界台灣大概詐騙最嚴重大家會覺得說這個好像台灣是台灣的政府執法單位無能所以讓台灣變成詐騙天堂但一般民眾是這樣的感受這個感受其實是蠻真實的就是說因為民眾對於這個詐騙現在詐騙的這個狀況的嚴重性的感受是蠻真實的 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
133.098 |
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但是我們作為一個政府機關作為一個執法單位我們也要讓民眾知道真相就是說台灣是很嚴重 詐騙是很嚴重但不是只有台灣嚴重其實現在這種新型態詐騙不是我們小時候看的金光黨拿一包磚頭去騙人家的金塊那種金光黨式的詐騙 不是的 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
154.734 |
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173.284 |
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這十年來這個詐騙都已經是跨境而且他透過這個網際網路透過這種各種方式的這種科技型態在進行的這種我現在就秀出來這個都是事實的這是在全世界各國現在的詐騙問題已經不是台灣單獨面對的說台灣是 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
178.546 |
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台灣是非常嚴重不是全世界每一個國家的詐騙其實都非常嚴重也就是說現在這個反詐騙現在已經變成一個全球各個國家大家共通要面對的議題所以跨境的司法合作當然也就變得很重要了我看這些新聞新加坡詐騙橫行財產損失260億美國人一天被騙4800萬新加坡剛剛講治安很好的新加坡 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
211.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
218.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
韓國 馬來西亞 西班牙每一個國家都一樣這是全球反詐聯盟的統計2024年 去年全球因為詐騙造成的損失 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
234.028 |
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256.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
全球高達103兆美元103兆的美元不是台幣103兆美元那這裡統計各個國家他的詐騙的受害這第一名是美國美國到到這個3520平均一個人他跟人口做平均 平均一個人損失3252 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
262.014 |
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285.365 |
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520美元全球第一再來是丹麥再來是斯洛伐克再來新加坡剛剛講資安最好的新加坡排名全球第四被詐騙的狀況那我這旁邊也統計了我們的這個跟各國世界各國這是去年113年被詐騙的金額台灣大概新台幣502億 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
287.438 |
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314.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
我們鄰近的日本去年一年被詐騙的金額高達670億台幣比台灣還嚴重新加坡小小一個國家267.2億美國 當然他國家大所以他被詐騙的案件也多他的經濟規模也大所以他4123億香港 小小一個香港就一年就被詐騙366億 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
318.157 |
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328.878 |
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所以我要講的是說我們確實要重視但是也必須要讓人民知道說現在這個詐騙大家都說怎麼詐騙集團我們政府為什麼抓不到 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
329.878 |
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那就是因為這個詐騙不是我們台灣政府抓不到我們一直在抓一直在抓它現在變成我們現在執法單位大概佔了六成的案件六成以上的案件都是都是詐騙案等於每天的現在我們的警察機關我們的調查局我們的司法單位在處理最大宗的超過一半以上的業務就是在打詐但是打不完嘛不只台灣打不完全世界各國都打不完全世界各國都在打 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
357.509 |
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380.185 |
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所以這樣子的問題是但是我要講人民的感受是真實的認為說詐騙嚴重這是真實的這個我們也必須要了解民眾的感受讓我們政府盡力的來做啦那也有很多人尤其像這個太子集團這種個案之後很多人覺得說為什麼台灣詐騙嚴重因為台灣的刑罰太輕了台灣對詐騙的刑罰太輕了 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
384.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
403.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
那這個我們也要看啊這不是說我們說輕就輕我們說重就重要不然我們就詐欺犯罪唯一死刑夠重了吧我們要看全世界是不是其他的國家我們台灣是不是比其他國家的刑罰來得輕這我們也是要做國際的比較所以這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
406.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
435.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
我們看了日本 日本處時我們現在台灣目前是用這個刑法第339條跟339之4條兩條這個詐欺跟加重詐欺罪那另外我們有特別條例有這個詐欺犯罪危害防治條例用第43條第44條來做一些加重的規定所以我們在比較這個世界各國的刑度其實台灣的刑度並不輕 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
437.096 |
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465.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
那是不是是說我們台灣把他加到多重大家才會覺得說那這樣有辦法遏止事實上全世界大家每一個國家都在想辦法要遏止遏止詐欺的刑度大概台灣並沒有比其他國家輕這個部分我覺得我們法務部也要讓民眾了解其實包括我們未來我們現在正這個我們這個這個特別條例有一個修法已經送立法院了嗎現在那個現在在那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
467.021 |
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483.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
這個已經送大院來審議了已經要審議了 詐欺犯罪危害防治條例這個是高額詐欺比世界各國都還重很多對 我們高額詐欺事實上是而且我們還包括罰金那個罰金是大概世界其他國家沒有這個還沒有採取這個制度 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
488.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
513.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
這個我覺得也要讓民眾了解說事實上詐欺犯罪是現代每一個國家政府都頭痛在面對的問題我們台灣政府並沒有 並不是說政府都在睡覺也並不是說我們都不懲罰詐欺犯罪台灣變成詐欺犯罪的天堂 沒有這些詐欺全部都是跨境全球性的安全問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
515.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
540.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
那所以接下來我們就討論所以因為這樣 因為人民有這種感受所以就有人提出說那是不是要編刑入法是不是要把這個打詐要編刑我看到這個題目在我們立法院司法委員會出現我是真的是滿驚訝的啦至少在邏輯上我們司法法治委員會在邏輯上我們應該是先討論台灣要不要 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
543.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
553.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
有詐欺這個刑罰要不要有邊刑這個刑罰這個是前提啊有邊刑這個刑罰之後才來討論哪一些刑罰是不是要採用邊刑不是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
555.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
583.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
部長對不對我們現在的刑法我們現在目前的刑法規定在刑法第32條33條他那個是目前有有有有有編刑嗎有有身體刑嗎這個是刑法的種類齁刑法的種類組刑的種類沒有編刑對這個所以這是一個一個刑法總則的問題對所以今天提供說參考新加坡打炸編刑入法是可行性評估事實上是應該要先評估台灣的刑法是不是要 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
584.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
606.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
是不是要採納邊形啊如果說我們 召委覺得說應該要採邊形 那就你是立法委員 你就提案啊修改刑法第32條 33條把主刑納入邊形 從這裡開始還對啊然後接下來刑法分責 再來討論每一個刑法分責哪一些刑事犯罪 哪一些構成要件 我們要要刻以邊形啊收受賄賂 讓建商提高這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
614.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
632.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
這個容積率 這個要不要編刑這個就可以討論 這個就是第二步刑法總結完了以後接下來討論酒駕要不要編刑 兒童 兒女要不要編刑然後再來討論這個收受境外資金來跟監人民這個要不要編刑一個一個案子 一種一種犯罪形態來討論這個才是符合邏輯啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
636.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
655.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
那現在直接就說在我國還沒有編刑這個制度之下來討論打渣要不要編刑這個邏輯實在是太跳躍了那這個編刑入法其實大家一直講新加坡編刑我們就來看全世界到底哪一些國家有編刑 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
656.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
680.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
如果邊形是這麼好的制度應該是全世界很多國家都會從沒有邊形去改成有邊形這個才是國際趨勢啊這才是如果說邊形這麼好應該是這樣子啊但是我們事實上我們看到是相反的越來越多的國家 包括沙烏地阿拉伯越來越多的國家是從原來有邊形到廢止邊形這一定有它的道理嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
682.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
709.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
我們不要說人權保護我們今天如果真的要修改刑法總則刑法分則要把邊刑入法可以討論其實人民大家也有很多很多人有這種想法說認為就是就打他就鞭打這個很好但是我們要來看看就如果我們要修改包括我們國內法不要說刑法總則不要說我剛講刑法分則要修改 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
710.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
729.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
你這個 我們現在兩公約是國內法現在兩公約不是國際公約兩公約現在是國內法化了它是台灣的法律如果我們要違反這個兩公約我們自己台灣立法院通過的立法要加入身體刑那我們這個兩公約我們也要面對啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
731.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
757.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
我們自己要國內法說要把兩公約說排除我們兩公約我們通通遵守但是身體型 酷刑的部分我們不遵守入法嗎這個我認為說邊形是可以討論因為畢竟有太多人太多台灣人民都認為說應該邊形不要說邊形啦我們甚至應該要討論說是不是可以開放民眾一般民眾到警察局前面毆打嫌犯 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
759.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
779.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
這個大家也都覺得去打這些嫌犯大家都覺得這些嫌犯該打啊既然大家都覺得該打是不是我們以後開放讓民眾都可以在警察局門口警察把嫌犯押出來先讓大家打一打再進去徵訊這不是我們所以我們討論問題就要從這個問題的源頭來討論這個其實現在我們看到全世界的邊形其實大概 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
789.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
817.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
就是以前英國對待殖民地在英國的殖民地留下來就像剛才我們主席講的在台灣的日治時代那時候日本對待殖民地也曾經有過邊形現在全世界在英國過去英國的殖民地已留下來邊形再來就宗教因素宗教因素 伊斯蘭教的教法他們有一些國家宗教因素他會保留邊形 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
819.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
846.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
我們看到這些國家台灣要加入這些國家的行列成為新的有邊形的國家大家來討論我們看為什麼世界上我們現在沒有看到什麼國家是從沒有邊形現在增加到變成有邊形但是我們確實看到很多有邊形的國家現在取消了邊形這個國際趨勢他一定有他的道理啦齁那我覺得要研議也很好啦那研議我們不是研議打詐要不要邊形 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
848.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
871.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
而是研議台灣要不要編刑 這個問題要先研究出來你們先一個態度我們看這麼多立法委員在這邊喔 台灣大家都覺得說要有編刑所以就在討論一下總質詢說要編刑 一下說要編刑但是我在立法院沒有看到任何一個委員提案修改刑法第三十二條 三十三條就直接說 我提一個刑法修改草案才會納入編刑 我沒看到辦個法案所以這個我是覺得齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
877.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
893.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
一般民眾的感受我們都要尊重而且我們要非常的去理解但是當我們作為一個立法者我們作為一個執法者我們就應該要把這個問題從根源的 全面的來看待認真的來面對以上 |