| IVOD_ID |
165588 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165588 |
| 日期 |
2025-11-19 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-4-36-9 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期司法及法制委員會第9次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
9 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
36 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
司法及法制委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期司法及法制委員會第9次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-11-19T10:33:17+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-11-19T10:51:08+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:17:51 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/9c5448532e3833d1a45f97a2f821cb2a7e24dce8f91e16ee9ed37f72173c5d09ead3c9815bd815b75ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
王鴻薇 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:33:17 - 10:51:08 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-11-19T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期司法及法制委員會第9次全體委員會議（事由：邀請司法院副秘書長、法務部部長、法務部調查局局長、行政院打擊詐欺指揮中心指揮官、內政部警政署署長、數位發展部、國家通訊傳播委員會、經濟部、金融監督管理委員會、個人資料保護委員會籌備處等就「太子集團涉詐案、跨部會防詐及打詐成效，以及參考新加坡打詐鞭刑入法之可行性評估」進行專題報告，並備質詢。） |
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好 謝謝主席我先請我們法務部部長好 請部長好 部長好部長今天我們主要是著重在打詐那剛才也講了現在這個民眾對詐騙深惡痛絕也是政府現在民調滿意度最低的一個項目但是我必須要講就是說 |
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34.415 |
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我們為了打詐案件很多但是司法有沒有怠惰呢有的我現在就來直接跟部長請教這件事情我們在整個打詐期這幾年來包含我們成立了國家打詐隊那麼努力在打詐但是有一個案子非常非常特殊 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
57.196 |
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这个特殊是什么呢它其实是类似当年的IMBIMB一样非法吸金非法吸金那这个叫做天逸集团的董事长温丰泰他以所谓的基金队长为名对外吸金而且他的吸金说你保证回本 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
80.253 |
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105.23 |
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而且回收率就是你的報酬率高達6%到12%這種一看就知道典型的非法襲擊的案例那我們剪掉有沒有辦呢有的在2021年的9月當時你們也是大規模的去辦去偵辦然後裡面包含去約談去搜索 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
106.05 |
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131.128 |
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然后这个董事长当年是以200万元交保然后他另外一家叫做天营投资的负责人叫做王志摩他100万元交保当然当时还有一些业务员有60万交保的20万交保的这样一个大规模轰轰动动10亿的一个金融非法吸金涉及诈骗的案子 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
132.984 |
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152.331 |
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部長我請教這樣的案子通常通常應該要多久應該會有比較具體的結果不管你是繼續的約談他繼續的開庭或者起訴他或者說還他清白其實你沒有詐騙你沒有非法襲擊通常這案子應該要多久 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
155.351 |
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165.17 |
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這個謝謝委員關心那的確這個是有吸金這個有涉及到這些不法的那這個金額也看起來也蠻多的 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
165.99 |
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182.78 |
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那這個北檢剛才委員有提到說11年9月份那時候有做一些的有處理啦有處理搜索等等的這些那現在的確是委員講這個是案件還在偵查中還在偵查中通常所以我要問部長像這種大型的案件大型案件如果他擺了四年沒有再開任何一次庭 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
194.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
200.22 |
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也沒有在傳喚任何一個人沒有在任何的偵辦的動作合理不合理部長合理嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
204.116 |
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228.752 |
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這個案件的染疫程度以及收整的一個個案不同據我這邊的資料事實上在去年在12月也有開過庭這部分我想我要尊重檢察官的一個偵查的計畫我想這部分如果當事人如果說被害人這部分對被害人來說他一定認為這個人是不是有 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
232.914 |
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246.679 |
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守候的什麼政商關係可以讓檢調在一次大規模的偵辦然後交保之後最後無消無息我們來看因為這家公司繼續在做營運來 下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
249.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
269.819 |
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他繼續在做營運而且神通廣大那麼他也跟柬埔寨的商務部也有正式的簽約然後另外他又去介入一家上市公司的經營權的紛爭這家公司也後來這個經營權紛爭也涉嫌到吸金的問題我要講的是 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
272.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
301.741 |
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我們一個重大的案件然後被害人這麼多當然人家會盯住說司法檢調在偵辦的之後好一年過去了兩年過去了三年過去了你說去年12月那也是三年之後啦一次開庭對不對那所以我想請問一下這樣子的案子那你如何讓被害人對司法有信心請問一下部長像這個案子 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
303.842 |
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313.892 |
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10億然後甄辦都幾百萬元交保然後就擺在那裡如果你是被害人或者你是被害人家屬你做何感想 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
314.851 |
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334.811 |
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我想這不是案件就擺在那裡啦這個檢察官依照這個法定程序來蒐集證據那還是有持續的一個進行那這部分因為這是個案我也沒辦法去做一個干涉指導我今天在講的當然這個是一個非法吸金詐騙的個案 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
336.312 |
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348.896 |
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但是這也是通案就如同剛才在講的太子集團那是我們偵辦的很晚是美國把一些相關資料給我們這個是我們已經有在偵辦然後擺在那邊聞風不動 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
352.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
367.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
我覺得這就是會讓外界認為司法怠惰對於這些連大型的非法欺侵詐騙你們都可以擺4年之久所以拜託部長這樣子害被害人血本無歸啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
368.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
395.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
你本來就要加強偵辦否則這些人說實在這些人200他們現在到處在做生意有沒有出徑對不對照樣還可以去介入上市公司的經營權之爭我覺得這個我們是不是讓這些這種涉嫌詐騙涉嫌非法吸金的人對他們太好了所以剛才羅思強委員問這個事情就是那個院長詐騙當時就是我總諮詢問他 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
398.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
413.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
我問他就是那個太子集團你講那30萬不是我問他是那個太子集團的特助那個城市的特助15萬交保然後呢交保之後臉上出現燦笑開心的不得了所以我就問院長這種畫面你給國人什麼樣的訊號 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
415.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
443.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
所以院長說他也不能夠接受所以像這樣的案子是大家不能接受的事情拜託部長好不好就一定該辦的就辦我說如果他沒有非法進行如果說他沒有涉嫌什麼相關的法律責任你也趕快懷人家清白是不是 也沒有你就把案子擺在那裡這個都不是我們在做這些司法案件應該有的態度另外部長請教你一件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
445.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
466.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
這兩天我認為這個案子非常嚴重台積電又出現涉嫌就是可能又被竊他的機密這裡面是他一個副總高階的副總叫做羅維仁他退休之後他就跳槽英特爾因為部長知道這個案子 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
467.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
482.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
這個案件媒體有報 那高檢署也分案偵辦了你講的是羅維仁嗎對 這一間 就是這一間你們是主動偵辦 還是說台積電已經跟你們這一間是主動分案的主動分案 這正確我為什麼今天要質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
483.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
512.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
因為他之前呢是一個日商的東基威力集團這個也是日本的半導體國家隊友也來是涉嫌竊取台積電的這個商這個他的技術的機密那台積電呢是提告跟我們的高檢署提告然後所以現在在偵辦中那這個羅維仁這是按照媒體報導台積電還沒有確定說要不要提告但是我認為就應該去主動偵辦他那用什麼用什麼法去偵辦他 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
515.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
544.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
這個營業秘密法用營業秘密法會不會用國安法還有那個國安法那個應該是第三條第八條所以現在部長是確定這個羅為仁涉嫌竊取台積電的機密案我們高檢署主動分案調查主動分案調查以什麼涉嫌那個國安法國安法以及營業秘密法 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
544.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
560.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
一頁秘密法就是主動翻案調查這是正確的我覺得政府要拿出態度來因為剛剛有媒體報導說他因為是美國籍啊還不能用國安法辦他我說怎麼會有這樣的事情那個是任何人 國安法的那個是任何人 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
561.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
574.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
對 所以這個部分為什麼我今天要質詢這個我是這樣子我就肯定了好 那時間暫停一下我請一下我們今天有經濟部經濟部是 對不起經濟部商業發展署還有銀行局局長跟內政部警政署署長好 請兩位三位最小的官員請上台 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
592.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
612.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
這個之前我也在這邊請教法務部就是我們太子集團這個案子事實上它是涉及各部會那當時你們在檢方在開內部檢討會議的時候有人直接點名說這個案子的罪魁禍首是誰呢是經濟部就是經濟部的商業發展署 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
615.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
636.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
那是什麼呢就是針對這些空殼公司啊這些空殼公司大量的交易買豪車買豪宅但是我們渾然不覺所以當時檢方點名這件事的罪魁禍首是經濟部來那我想請問一下我們副署長您能夠接受嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
637.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
653.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
跟委員報告我們公司的設立登記跟變更登記都有法定的程序我們依公司法跟公司登記辦法所以這件事情你們有沒有施指針對這個公科公司又買豪車又買豪宅然後進行洗錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
654.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
670.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
公司的設立那個資金我們會透過會計視察而簽證所以那個設立的資金我們會有法定程序處理那我要請教一下那麼當時法務部副部長在這邊他說他們會透過行政院要讓經濟部針對空殼公司進行清查因為以這個案例來說這個案例他透過設立 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
684.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
703.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
空殼公司然後去買車去買豪車豪宅當然機管會是說銀行局說他們有通報銀行針對這些交易他們有通報針對空殼公司要不要做清查公司的營業如果有 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
705.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
733.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
六個月沒有正常的營業那個稅務機關會有這個會營業的事實那我們會有法定程序會進行這個相關的副署長你今天來這個專案報告我覺得你完全沒有準備我剛才為什麼講為什麼檢方直接點名經濟部是罪魁禍首就是針對這些空殼公司沒有做任何的管理 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
733.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
760.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
所以我也支持我們針對空殼公司你沒有營運你也沒有營運資本額也沒多少那開個空殼公司在這邊就是大肆的去買各項的財產當然你說這邊他是買豪車豪宅這個還能夠在銀行裡面去追蹤他如果去買什麼虛擬貨幣買吳京明的債券吳京明債券他也有資金的流動你根本連追都不能追所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
763.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
773.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
针对我们这些空壳公司你们真的应该做一些清查你可以定嘛你可以定一个标准什么样的标准之上你要做清查 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
774.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
793.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
这边所谓空壳公司跟刚刚那个无营业其实两个概念是不同所以无营业就是说他六个月没有经营的情况那这种情况我们有法定程序就是透过这个命令解散跟撤销你讲半天我跟你讲那至于说在正常营业当中因为他在税务 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
794.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
812.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
的程序也都有申報營業稅有這個正常的往來那請問這家空殼公司太子集團有什麼正常營業嗎所以所謂的空殼公司它有正常營業嗎跟無營業公司兩個是不同的概念你怎麼 你在講半天我就說你完全沒有準備而來你們經營部顯然這件事情不干你們的事的 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
813.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
816.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
好像一副不幹你們的事 你知道這個世界變成什麼樣嗎我們變成那種海外的那種洗錢天堂了 你知道嗎台灣有避稅天堂 海外有洗錢天堂 台灣現在變成洗錢天堂設立一家空額公司 然後在這邊把這些錢拿來去買車買豪宅我們渾然不覺 然後發生事情的時候你在這邊跟我爭議什麼有沒有營業 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
838.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
861.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
你們到底有沒有進入狀況啊公司在設立的過程當中會有開一個籌備戶頭那設立完以後他會轉為這個時間關係啊我真的拜託法務部把這些所有相關的內政我想那個署長不會那麼白目啦真的署長人家還有點名的是內政部 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
862.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
888.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
就是呢這個層次已經來十年來已經來很多次還用多國護照一直來一直來一直來所以也點名了也點名了就說這個為什麼內政部這當然不是只有你們還包含海關為什麼都渾然不覺所以在這個部分我們有沒有辦法去做一些做一些防堵我就以太子集團這個案例 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
890.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
910.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
請檢調單位針對其他各部會他應該有漏洞要把他防堵出來我今天雖然找金融局但是我就現在來看你們確實有通報所以我覺得金融局的部分銀行的部分目前是OK的他有在守門但是他說檢調也沒有什麼他說通報以後檢調你們也沒有在積極的作為 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
915.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
922.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
所以你們要把太子集團這個案例我們所有相關的有這些漏洞要捕破網 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
924.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
946.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
這個案子很丟臉啊很丟臉我現在是時間關係我沒有把調查局長叫上來我那時候說四月份人家聯合國已經有報告說台灣涉及東南亞的洗錢有沒有結果你們調查局長講什麼說這個好像有言過其實啊就不是這樣子啊不是這樣子今天跑出來一個太子集團 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
947.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
968.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
我一直說我們要洗刷這種國際洗錢中心洗錢天堂的惡名可以不可以 可以可以 署長我覺得他署長比較進入狀況而且你覺得這個是你的職責你經濟部真的回去好好這個空殼公司是你們經濟部的事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
970.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
994.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
部長最後針對太子集團所有相關部會我覺得你們也不要當爛好人也不要護短你們檢調有什麼疏失你們就直接提出來其他單位有什麼疏失你們就要提出來這個案子用太子集團的案子來做檢討不要明年人家什麼聯合國報告再出來說我們幫東南亞去洗錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
996.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
1024.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
你知道現在全世界都在跟柬埔寨宣戰全世界 美國都說我要派員到柬埔寨去查然後李在明說什麼李在明說你們今天敢動我韓國人我讓你們家破人亡人家總統有這種破例所以你柬埔寨再敢動我韓國人我就讓你們家破人亡我們在那邊我們就在機場舉牌子說大家不要去柬埔寨 小心 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
1026.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
1032.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
這種破例完全不一樣啊所以我覺得要宣戰這種宣戰是要跟國際的詐騙集團宣戰 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
1035.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
1056.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
好不好 惡名昭彰還對他們有什麼客氣的啦不會啦 謝謝委員的指教我想我們打架國會都是對而宣戰那委員剛才關心的就是說我們檢調再辦案把一些我們為什麼會有這樣的情形的發生我們會看檢討把它補漏這部分我們會回饋給各個行政機關各個權管單位來做一個不用當讓好了 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
1056.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
1061.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
而且也不能護膽 也不能護膽誰沒有進入狀況 誰沒有在防堵就讓他們要負起責任這部分我們有收集就是會來防堵這個精進策進作為這部分我們有在做OK 好 謝謝 |