| IVOD_ID |
165580 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165580 |
| 日期 |
2025-11-19 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-4-19-11 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期經濟委員會第11次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
11 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
19 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
經濟委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期經濟委員會第11次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-11-19T10:22:54+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-11-19T10:35:24+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:12:30 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/9c5448532e3833d153ebab4bcd6e45ed56e0913f8e9ddf6f9ed37f72173c5d097a419371ec2b560b5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
楊瓊瓔 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:22:54 - 10:35:24 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-11-19T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期經濟委員會第11次全體委員會議（事由：邀請經濟部部長率台灣中油股份有限公司董事長及行政院公共工程委員會首長就「中油三接案第二期遭檢舉浮報工程款項爭議」進行報告，並備質詢。
【11月19日及20日二天一次會】） |
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751.01909375 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
0.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].end |
27.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].text |
我們接下來請楊秋瑩召委謝謝謝謝主席本席邀請那個工部長跟忠祐請工部長跟幫董事長召委好是我想這一段時間大家聽到 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
30.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
58.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
理論上的一個討論以及媒體的一個報導但是主席 事者單位還是在在座兩位所以我們也非常的希望可以得到真正的答案到底是什麼人民要的是真相所以本席要來請教也就是在剛剛的部長您的說明當中跟董事長的說明當中你們說過在2022年的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
61.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
84.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
当时发生了这个事情但是有人在113年检举的时候你们也去查了你们认为是查无不法那请问你们当时的查无不法你是查什么人查什么公司查什么内容你所谓的不法到底是什么请做说明 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
87.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
96.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
是 在113年的檢舉函裡面是那麼裡面所談到有兩個關係人之間的一些行為 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
97.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
125.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
那麼這封檢舉函並沒有署名是誰檢舉所以因此在接到這個檢舉函以後那內部就去做調查到底有沒有這樣的一個實際的情形也就是說94變成最後的256裡面提到256那在這個公司內部的所有相關的程序書面的資料以及相關的沒有這種情形 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
125.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
144.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
那麼同時對於主辦的這個單位的人員也進行約談那麼沒有查到這樣一個事實的一個情形過程是這個樣子所以你們所謂的你的查無不法是剛剛董事長所說的那這個有沒有記錄 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
147.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
164.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
這個在公司內部有記錄而且有呈報到經濟部的證封處那部長那你這個更應該可以公諸於世啊因為大家人民現在最希望的是能夠得到真相啊那像你們說你們113年查無不法那你可以公佈啊可不可以公佈 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
165.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
193.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
可不可以公布 問一下政風看看 對不對這是公開的嘛 您所謂的你已經查無不法嘛因為這個羅生門啊 我本席不希望讓整個社會啊不斷的在質疑 不斷的在質疑喔可不可以公布 來 請說八位因為我剛才問了政風以後 他說這個是密件啊但是我們還是會把重要大家所關心的議題對外做說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
194.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
216.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
這個是密件 那到底你已經說查無不法那可不可以公佈因為是密件密件你要怎麼樣再公佈你剛剛說你要擇重點公佈那你這個邏輯有奇怪啊可公佈就公佈 不可公佈就不可公佈啊我們依法行政嘛 對不對那到底可不可以公佈 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
218.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
243.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
欸 整個報告是不能公布嘛報告不能公布 好所以現在又有新市政剛剛你們也特別說了新市政你們要重啟政風的調查 是不是對 對是不是 所以我們再往前推你在整個巡駕跟訪駕中油公司到底做了哪些角色啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
245.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
262.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
這個重點是如此啊在你整個案子你必須在未開票以前你要尋家跟訪家那綜合公司你們怎麼樣委託委託之後的結果怎麼樣去做你的流程怎麼樣去拍板定案變成253億這才是重點啊部長這才是人民希望聽到的對這個也會在調查的過程當中在什麼時候調查 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
271.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
292.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
這個是中國公司說這個 振豐啦 他們振豐會調查大概12月中之前會報告會提給我們12月中之前大概一個月他的報告會給經濟部所以再請教你們現在所謂的有心事政有心事政那你們要查什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
293.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
320.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
你要查什麼人 你要查什麼公司你要查什麼流程你的訪價 你的這個這個巡駕到底你們會不會朝這樣的方向去查不要再打假球人民不希望如此 希望給說明清楚你會朝本席剛才所說的這個方向嗎所謂這是新市政就是這個錄音檔嘛是新的市政那請問到底有沒有這個錄音檔我沒有聽過 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
323.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
326.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
你沒有聽過但是到底有沒有你一定要重啟針鋒重啟調查部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
330.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
359.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
有沒有這個錄音檔這個也是調查的一環我們當然會調查的一環換句話說有這個錄音檔還不知道這要調查以後才知道有沒有這個錄音檔在國會我們經濟委員會我們希望讓社會不要有質疑所以特別邀請你們來說明董事長告訴我我沒有聽過然後你們說要重啟調查然後我再問你工部長到底有沒有這個錄音檔要調查以後才知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
361.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
386.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
現在沒有調查你不是已經告訴我們要在12月中你不是已經啟動了嗎你到底啟動了沒有啟動了什麼時候啟動中油公司在13號的那個委員會國民黨的記者會裡面就提出這樣一個事情從那天開始我們就開始啟動13號開始啟動嘛是不是對開始啟動那到底有沒有這個錄音檔 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
389.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
406.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
那當時在媒體上面所報的那個總經理是誰因為你已經有方向啊你可以問啊為什麼不趕快去把這個質疑去清楚報導中所講的總經理並沒有講是哪一家公司的總經理 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
407.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
434.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
這個就是你們要查這個就是你們要查對不對這個也是我們中油公司必須要去了解清楚主旗幟仔是你們啊那到底那個總經理是誰啊這個就是要查但是說老實話中油公司他本身也沒有調查權我們盡量會請相關的市政的相關人員來協助我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
436.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
458.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
那當然檢調是已經在調查了 那我們當然所有的資料都會如果檢調有需要的話 我們都會給檢調你是經濟部長 中油是我們國家非常重要的事業單位出現了這麼樣的一個 這麼大的一個衝擊 而且連續這三年不斷被質疑 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
459.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
476.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
我們中油公司自己內部不需要去調查清楚嗎光光已經指明有沒有錄音檔總經理是誰這些都是最容易讓你可以去清清楚楚明明白白了解到底內容是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
479.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
504.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
那您現在告訴本席說你們會在12月中旬提出你們的新市政的報告跟社會大眾來說明清楚是不是如此 是是不是如此那這是誰調查是中友內部調查還是政風調查你剛剛又說了2022年的時候你說那個那個你說查無不法 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
505.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
510.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
這個政風調查你說不能公佈耶可是你現在告訴我12月中要公佈耶沒有那個只是對外說明不是把調查報告公佈我們會對外說明我們調查的結果對外說明調查的結果所以本席還是人民希望知道到底那個總經理是誰到底有沒有這個錄音檔 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
532.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
559.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
這些都是關鍵啊沒有錯 這個也是我們要了解甚至於這些廠商之間的對話可能他們也只是閒聊或胡說八道也不一定但是我們就是要查本期建議經濟部長你必須要審慎對峙而不是在國會裡頭講一個什麼閒聊講一個這個胡說八道 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
560.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
576.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
因為這已經是三年內讓社會大眾一直質疑一直質疑一個政府沒有辦法給民眾一個明確的方向而且你們已經在13號重啟調查如果你的立場是認為他是胡說八道 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
578.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
603.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
閒聊 那這個立場是不對的喔不對 是不對的喔因為聳動的聲音告訴我們以前有一部很有名的電影黑金他的台詞是說什麼他說了我們國家很有錢啊如果照媒體報導的這些內容這是非常聳動的一個言語耶部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
604.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
615.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
人民的納稅錢我們公共資源的安全性這是政府必須要有責任去穩定之的是不是市長部長 針對這個案子 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
622.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
638.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
人民已經這麼多這麼多的質疑你認為你應該要怎麼處置你的動作你的作為應該要怎麼樣我們還是尊重政風因為政風是一條邊的他們調查他們獨立調查我們盡量可以協助他但是我們不會指導 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
641.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
667.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
所以本席再次強調因為人民知道真希望知道真相本席也再次強調確保整個公共資源以及民眾的生命安全這是非常的重要三接的工程大家是期待很高不管是在公安事件等等大家都勉勵但是不能如此的不清不楚從90幾億如果照媒體報導90幾億到100多億 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
671.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
695.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
100多億到150億 150億要到253億本席再次強調在中油的立場你們的自主性非常的高而且你們也必須要能夠掌控整個市場的樣態所以你們的巡價跟訪價這兩點要怎麼樣跟民眾來交代這是非常的重要啊部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
697.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
726.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
尋價跟訪價應該是4C吧是4C不是中油4C查出來之後再送給你們嘛你有沒有自主權你有沒有自主權所以本行一再強調你的尋價跟訪價當然台灣4C所遞送的這個建議的預算253億的話中油公司當然要去複合要去審核好 就這一句中油公司必須去複合跟審議所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
727.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
750 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
本席就非常希望 就成如部長您所說的下個月中 必須要提出給社會大眾說明清楚不要再讓民眾成為不法人士的一個提款機謝謝楊初英召委部長請回 謝謝 |