| IVOD_ID |
165577 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165577 |
| 日期 |
2025-11-19 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-4-36-9 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期司法及法制委員會第9次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
9 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
36 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
司法及法制委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期司法及法制委員會第9次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-11-19T10:14:12+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-11-19T10:33:05+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:18:53 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/9c5448532e3833d11766b2092a2ffcc37e24dce8f91e16ee9ed37f72173c5d0948780db23e8b7b075ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
羅智強 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:14:12 - 10:33:05 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-11-19T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期司法及法制委員會第9次全體委員會議（事由：邀請司法院副秘書長、法務部部長、法務部調查局局長、行政院打擊詐欺指揮中心指揮官、內政部警政署署長、數位發展部、國家通訊傳播委員會、經濟部、金融監督管理委員會、個人資料保護委員會籌備處等就「太子集團涉詐案、跨部會防詐及打詐成效，以及參考新加坡打詐鞭刑入法之可行性評估」進行專題報告，並備質詢。） |
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有請司法院理聽長法務部政部長調查局陳局長內政部張署長金管會佟局長好 麻煩剛剛羅委員點名的這些長官們到台前 謝謝首先我想請教我們佟局長 |
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就你現在所監管的業務或是引以至極的感覺詐騙嚴不嚴重台灣我們都有配合嚴不嚴重嘛也答不出來換下一個來署長你總答得出來吧 |
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詐騙嚴不嚴重啊詐騙是嚴重的非常嚴重我們剛剛我們的那個吳宗憲委員說幾乎是民怨第一名這個人民的感受沒錯吧現在普遍現在大家的感覺也都有這樣的感覺那不過我們打詐是有一些成效啦好 再說啦來 再想請教一下我們司法院我們的理聽長 |
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89.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
剛剛署長說詐騙真的是人民生物痛舉所以我們吳委員說是民怨第一名你認同嗎我認同認同 謝謝再來請我們的局長局長 你認同吳委員說民怨第一名嗎我相信現在目前這部分民怨還是很高謝謝你 來 請部長我不太理解 部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
90.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
114.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
為什麼吳委員說民怨第一名你可以讓你炸鍋到這種程度還叫他拿出證據出來沒有他是說我們國內我們台灣市全世界那我告訴你吳委員講得很清楚啊我不認為那你問是不是民怨第一名嘛那當然是民怨這是我民怨之所來來來我告訴你啊但是那不能過部長不用緊張但是他們說我們那個炸雞的成效部長你又來了來我們請局長上來 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
116.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
144.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
我請局長上來部長我請局長上來啦第三次部長我請調查局局長上來啦好不好學學局長啊局長也認同是民怨第一名啊那麼解釋那麼多我說民怨很高啦好沒關係啊你要修正民怨很高也可以啦來我跟局長問局長不要緊張嘛我還肯定你咧謝謝我也很肯定你知道TVBS最新民調 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
147.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
164.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
92%的國人認為詐欺嚴重只有4%的人認為詐欺不嚴重民怨有沒有很高啊人民深受其害痛苦啊所以我覺得真的很無聊光針對民怨第一名可以跟他們吵半天 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
166.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
181.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
你詐欺工作做得很努力我們的很多第一線的反詐人員我也要數大拇指敬佩他們啊我有否定他們的努力嗎 有沒有沒有啊但是今天我要說為什麼今天會有太子集團的這個專案報告在 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
184.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
202.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
人民能夠相信嗎 這個我後面會一一來詢問人民看到政府的做法 難道不擔心嗎我們也是基於期許希望今天我們的政府當然做得更好一關一個民怨第一名 人家TVBS民調做出來就92%認為嚴重啊只有4%的人認為不嚴重啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
206.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
230.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
難道不值得政府警惕嗎政府在這一方面一直是列為施政的重點非常好謝謝局長是謝謝委員那我想請教局長一件事你有聽過最近有個案子有一位清潔隊員因為同情拾荒老婦他把回收站台內一個堪用殘值只剩32元的電鍋轉送給他 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
232.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
259.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
你知道檢方最後是以貪污自罪條例起訴你有聽過這個案件嗎有 我有聽過有沒有他說黃姓清潔隊員康他仁之凱不該助長易賊廖天丁的錯誤概念來 部長你覺得32元的電鍋以貪污自罪條例起訴然後檢察官說他康他仁之凱不該助長易賊廖天丁的錯誤概念 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
260.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
280.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
這個的確是情形法狀我講一個清潔隊員的那個感想你來評論一下那這部分我們也你據那個貪污之類條例的一個修正草案很好很好你亡羊補牢很好這個我們一直在做這樣的一個提討來我跟部長說部長你要聽我講嘛部長請問現在我要跟你換位子嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
285.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
313.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
你是質詢我還是我質詢你啊我要到我的答案了嘛你可不可以聽我質詢好不好 質詢時間有限我也不想耽擱後面的人質詢啊我還算客氣吧 部長謝謝你喔那位清潔隊員感慨啊他說很後悔他不敢倒好人把這32元的電鍋送給一個處境堪憐的一個拾荒牢婦他很後悔可是我跟你講 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
314.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
326.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
現在很多人看到啊太子集團囂張九年啊你不要說後悔當好人可能很多人要後悔沒去加入太子集團啊難道這個不是個警訊嗎那我就要再問了真的叫捐鍋者豬啊詐騙者猴啊捐一個電鍋給老婦貪污啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
347.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
372.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
詐騙45億台灣啦 全台 全球全球多少 1500億美元1500億 對不對這樣的炸雞集團啊在台灣45億的不法資產爽九年啊然後現在剛剛所有的資訊我聽到最後都覺得今天我們的 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
373.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
396.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
法務部 調查局 好棒棒啊 都做得很好啊沒有任何可以檢討要反省的地方啊我聽起來是這樣啊在台灣爽九年啊 不是嗎來 我想請教 再下一個問題我想請教我請教部長今天我們看到 我們請局長好了 來 局長剛剛我看資訊很多重點嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
403.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
422.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
你們說你們2019年就接獲銀行的申報的金融資料然後2021年就已經接獲相關情資展開調查那我想請教一直到今天美國方面 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
424.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
452.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
這個美國的法院10月8號起訴美國財政部10月14號對陳志等人實施制裁然後接下來我們看到檢方動起來了分工辦案扣押不動產然後搜索集團幹部具體主要幹部通知證人到案全面擴大偵辦我想請問一下局長跟部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
454.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
478.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
這些包括所謂的偵辦的作為扣押的作為搜索的作為這些直接打擊所謂的詐欺銷唆的作為請問為什麼不是在今天美方10月8號起訴之前你剛都講從2019年到現在6年了吧這6年奇怪了有搜索嗎沒有嗎來 部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
484.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
512.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
有對太子集團展開搜索嗎有沒有報委員我可不可以回答可以啊請你這個本案是一個大型的跨國的一個犯罪的組織我知道啦那我們接到這個異常的這個通報的時候其實都是每一筆的交易我們如何從這每一筆的交易勾勒出整個集團的架構跟成員我們倒個袋倒個袋我只問你一個yes no嘛有針對太子集團開始搜索嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
513.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
534.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
有扣押資產嗎就本案在11月4號的時候之前沒有嘛我沒說錯嘛但是如果委員你有注意到外媒的報導這個其實是跟其他國家在國際間同步的一個行動我告訴你我辛苦你啦我都說辛苦你了對你也是很禮遇啊對不對辛苦你啊辛苦9年啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
536.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
555.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
至少從你知道的開始六年吧如果你跟我講三個月你沒動作你一年沒動作我都解釋得通啊來台灣九年你知道有六年你開始關切調查有四年了結果到最後是美國動手我們這邊還開始又搜索又扣押又傳證人 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
558.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
583.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
那我就 你說說今天國人沒有在質疑這件事情國人有些質疑 難道不是應該的嗎跟委員報告其實很多的這個國際的這個情資我們是不方便啦但是如果委員你注意那個外媒的報導你就可以知道說這個其實在同一個時間是國際之間同步的執行包括美國 英國 新加坡 香港都是在這個時間點同步執行大點時間給部長啦部長我的結論很簡單啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
588.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
600.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
你們一直在想這安靜你們多努力多努力多努力我剛剛講的搜索扣押傳證人通通都沒做嘛有嗎在美國動手之前有做嗎就沒有嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
601.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
625.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
三個月半年一年兩年你沒做我沒意見啦就像我任農局長講的嘛大案件嘛對不對你要很多的東西要做要查要做嘛這個要長期的一個說證嘛左九年右九年九年過了再九年是這個概念嗎改改左三年右三年過了三年再三年剛好加起來九年啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
626.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
655.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
委員這個是辦人的一個專業部長你人生有多少九年可以做你有多少九年的部長可以做這個長期的修正部件這個長期要釐清92%的人認為詐騙嚴重請永遠記在心裡面這種的才叫進行來來來我請署長我請署長委員好45億啊沒錯吧是45億應該是很大的金流吧對不對非常大的金流 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
656.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
680.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
哇 神不知鬼不覺啊九年在那邊跑來跑去沒事啊然後現在我們部長跟署長我們局長跟部長兩個都覺得自己很努力啊這努力能跟國人交代嗎這才重點吧來 請問我們的金融我們的金管會的局長童局長45億的金流不算小吧對啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
685.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
710.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
你們有通報吧 對不對對啊奇怪我不懂耶人家天靈靈地靈靈我們這天不靈地不靈啦政府也不靈啦是這個回事嗎我在這邊沒有用很苛刻的方式來要求部長跟局長喔真的沒有喔可是我就講一件事情我還是那句話嘛今天金管會通報你一年兩年 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
712.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
730.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
你無知無覺 我可以講說案件太大對不對 抽絲剝繭詳細謹慎不是耶 照調查局局長說就六年了嘛你通報他們六年了嘛 對不對 沒錯吧他們局的底報告是這樣寫的 六年啊啊他就說來九年啦所以這才我跟哥哥講 為什麼講台灣現在多何其荒謬啊捐鍋者諸 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
742.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
770.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
詐欺者喉捐個32元電鍋好心捐電鍋貪污起訴然後呢詐欺集團有八成人抓到是被交保3萬到100萬特助15萬交保搞得今天院長還震怒咧院長震怒啊打擊詐欺人員士氣啊只要罵錯人了 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
773.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
775.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
他罵法院來來我們來請廳長來我再重複一遍剛其實有問過了是院長罵法院罵對了嗎來 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
785.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
810.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
我還是要跟委員報告一下 這個在上個禮拜台北地院已經發了新聞稿澄清沒關係嘛 我不知道新聞稿你幫我講嘛 內容重點是什麼就罵錯了嘛 沒錯吧對嘛 檢察官訓後交保跟法院沒關係跟法院沒關係 不是法院裁的沒錯吧 就罵錯人嘛來來來 部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
813.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
832.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
這個院長應該是院長的意思是指太子集團的生押的核心幹部有一位交保是交保在一個圖信的一個被告交保30萬那這部分檢方是認為是不符所以這邊有看到所以這部分我們核心幹部就要收押 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
832.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
839.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
聽長請上來 聽長請上來部長那麼盡責 我也覺得委屈他啦我請聽長上來嘛我請聽長上來啦 謝謝部長我請聽長上來啦沒有 部長你很盡責啦 總統太太喜歡你啦沒問題的啦是不是罵錯了 請問對不對 聽長也很無奈啊講那麼多 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
864.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
881.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
他沒罵錯 搞到我們法院還要發聲明欸我不要再跟你吵這件事情 我只是覺得你很盡責你討厭聽洗地兩個字我知道 但我說你很盡責怎麼沒錯吧這不是洗地 這是回應那個委員對的我就說你討厭聽到洗地兩個字 我沒有講洗地嘛這是一個誠信事實啊 這不是什麼洗地部長你不盡責 你要我這樣講嗎我現在很盡責啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
887.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
911.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
我誇你也不行啊別人為罵你洗地你翻臉我誇你都不行啊 奇怪了 我不懂啊你就很盡責嘛 廳長旁邊都說罵錯了你這邊盡責的幫忙辯護不是洗地啦 再強調不叫洗地啦叫做盡責辯護啦最後有一件事情我要跟部長來討論一下最後一件事 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
913.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
932.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
有個80歲的劉老太太照顧癱瘓的兒子50年還要照顧她比她自己大10歲的丈夫因為她確診 心力交瘁她悶死了她兒子那地方法院法官建請總統依赦免法來對被告特赦各界也支持特赦 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
933.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
963.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
那我看我們的總統府是強調說因為這是我叫本會我們的委員會針對陳水扁特赦問題當時法務部就說尚未判決確定的案件沒有赦免法第三條特赦適用的餘地對不對當時這麼講沒錯這個特赦是要判決確定的才有特赦的所以是你的見解那是你的見解所以總統府說將司法程序完成後再回後續 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
964.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
987.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
但坦白講我也有看到不同的法律見解有人是回到赦免法第三條的條文的規定受罪行之宣告的人經特赦者免除其刑之執行其情節特殊者得以罪行之宣告為無效他沒有講確定兩個字但沒有關係我不是要在這邊跟你爭執法律意見我要講的是另外一件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
990.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
1015.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
我的主張是有新特色就特色啦不要讓他再來回奔波反應但如果法務部還是認為說要確定那現在檢方已經不對這本案上訴了嘛對不對那個檢方沒有上訴這是那個被告一方上訴可是我跟你講部長你江心比心從被告角度來講他要不要上訴他也很為難啊不是嗎今天如果他撤回上訴全案定義就符合你的要件了嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
1016.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
1032.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
對不對 定宴以後總統就可以來行使特赦的餘地嘛可以擔心他不上訴 定宴以後他也就要去服刑啊正式就沒有轉 萬一沒有特赦就要服刑那為什麼讓他來去賭好 沒關係 我這樣講我想請教部長 能幫一個忙啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
1033.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
1054.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
就是按照你的 我講的我的叫廣義的法律見解你的叫狹義法律見解 我不講對錯按照你的法律見解一定要確定之後部長能不能告訴我如果確定之後 你作為我們法律的守門人能不能請我們總統對這個個案慎重考慮 不是要求啦 慎重考慮行使特色啦照你說的確定之後啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
1056.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
1067.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
你覺得他有沒有可憐 請問這部分其實跟委員報告其實這個案件在發生之初是我在當北捷檢察長的時候那時候國關案件跟這件會議認為國務院法官的案件那時候轉嫌會議那個嫌疑會議我就講說我們檢察法會悲天憫之心所以這件我們才建議 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
1077.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
1095.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
國官專主的檢察 建立法官是不是改成通常程序不要再受到國官的那個比較程序的一些的這些冗長這一段我肯定你啦好不好那這邊委員你關心的我想這部分當然是總統固有職權那我想總統已經知道了所以總統我發新聞稿 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
1097.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
1126.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
說要程序做完他沒有答應要特赦 只是說程序結束大家都會很關心這件事我不勉強你啦 部長就是拜託啦你不用公開你作為政府法律守門人作為幕僚的話你私下給他建議這件事我們是覺得真的很可憐所以長照杯哥這部分的我們是一直在做這邊的一個檢視檢討在這邊部長你贏給大家一個promise你至少會把這個民情反映總統 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
1126.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
1127.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
好不好 這個是我們會來處理謝謝你啦這個也謝謝委員指教謝謝 |