| IVOD_ID |
165567 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165567 |
| 日期 |
2025-11-19 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-4-19-11 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期經濟委員會第11次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
11 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
19 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
經濟委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期經濟委員會第11次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-11-19T09:52:49+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-11-19T10:03:47+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:10:58 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/9c5448532e3833d1dc10ddadb1440fce56e0913f8e9ddf6f9ed37f72173c5d0936b0844119b6f4c45ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
張嘉郡 |
| 委員發言時間 |
09:52:49 - 10:03:47 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-11-19T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期經濟委員會第11次全體委員會議（事由：邀請經濟部部長率台灣中油股份有限公司董事長及行政院公共工程委員會首長就「中油三接案第二期遭檢舉浮報工程款項爭議」進行報告，並備質詢。
【11月19日及20日二天一次會】） |
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SPEAKER_02 |
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SPEAKER_02 |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
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謝謝主席我想請工部長我們再請工部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
27.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
53.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
部長長 我想知道你認識這個羅維仁嗎有見過面你有跟他深談過嗎 有交換過什麼意見嗎就是我以前當台積電董事的時候當然有做過一些說明那你認為這個人的人品如何 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
55.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
58.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
你客觀判斷當初覺得還不錯那現在是不是覺得判斷錯誤了 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
64.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
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| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
就是說有一點意料之外意料之外吧真的就是大家都難以想像說台積電的資深副總而且是掌管研發的資深副總在卸任之後馬上可以到對家去上班完全沒有禁業禁止然後也沒有旋轉門條款你覺得這個合理嗎因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
90.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
103.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
理論上競業晉職他要簽署事實上之前要簽署是那這個是說他不能到其他地方去任職而且他還是公園院的院士耶然後他在離職之前印了20幾箱有關於這個2奈米的先進製程什麼A7 A10全部資料都印走了你覺得這是妥當的嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
119.774 |
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| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
這個實際上到底運走了什麼可能要由台積電比較清楚說明是 但是本席今天在這裡要提醒部長台積電大家都說是我們的護國神山結果我們護國神山就從裡面大家都中空把它挖走所以希望部長一定要能夠關心這個案子希望未來不要再發生這個類似的情形如果假設別人說他也可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
147.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
161.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
別人也覺得我也可以呀 是不是所以 高檢署已經啟動了是不是違反國安法的一些調查那我想我們經濟部也會全力來配合那這是屬於國安層次是 當然 至於第二個層次 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
162.629 |
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170.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
整體產業的影響我們也會看看這個持續的關注它有沒有會造成利害所以這一點我也希望說部長不是只有關心這個個案而是要怎麼樣保護整個產業你要能夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
179.053 |
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| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
提出一些可能規範讓這個產業是有規範的否則大家都覺得他可以我也可以哇那他這樣子出去薪水又更高搞不好那資料還賣錢對不對我們我在這裡提醒部長那接下來我想要請教部長包括還有中郵董事長現在三接的弊案國人相當關心我們請中郵董事長 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
205.885 |
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226.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
那2021年為了這個行政院宣布說為了保護生態環境那三接必須要外推455公尺的時候那個時候行政院說這個工程需要增加150億那當時規劃的總經費是多少部長或董事長知道嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
228.186 |
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244.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
是當時所講的工程經費增加150億那是就外推的部分去做說明但是實際上最後是增加了305億305億我知道所以我就想知道說既然行政院 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
245.018 |
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| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
說增加150億就能完成外推那實際總經費從660億變成965億整整多了305億那多出來這一倍的經費305億從150億到305億是多了一倍耶那這些錢到底用在哪裡是 因為還有其他的因素 譬如說物價的一個調整譬如說環境的因素啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
274.385 |
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279.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
或者是說一些間接工程假設工程這些等等的增加 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
279.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
305.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
董事長我同意就是說但是你這些新增的工程到目前為止本席包括立法院今天的書面報告都沒有這些東西應該是說假設照你講的原物料調漲然後什麼樣工程調漲這些應該都要有細項而且應該都是有市價可以就是讓大家公平來評斷的 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
307.145 |
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330.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
那為什麼你不列出來呢你要讓大家覺得它是一個弊案呢如果你把這些事情一項一項細項都列出來提供給各位委員誰還可以說你這個是弊案但是你沒有啊本席已經問了非常多次就說可不可以提供一下這個細項讓我們理解一下到底增加在哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
331.482 |
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| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
中油沒有提供任何資料甚至今天送到委員會的書面資料有寫說這305億用在哪裡嗎有嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
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沒有仔細交代就是沒有告訴大家說如果假設你的這個增加是經得起考驗的你一項一項列出來就是經得起考驗嘛那我也希望說中郵真的不要覺得說可以規避立法院的監督那當初行政院也公開說只會增加150億結果 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
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增加105億都沒有任何的說明那所以今天我想要請問不只是部長還有董事長就是除了檢調現在在偵辦之外呢中油內部的行政調查什麼時候可以公布 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
383.117 |
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400.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
我們行政調查的部分是已經開始了那麼我們是期望能夠盡早完成盡早完成你有一個內部你自己的心理期程嗎我們目標是在12月中把它完成12月中可以完成所以12月中我們應該就會知道你們內部調查的結果是這樣嗎是 我們目標這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
402.563 |
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| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
好 努力那第二個是305億追加的這個經費項目細項什麼時候可以完整的公布呢是不是會後我再補充資料給委員好 麻煩你喔那接下來我想要請問的是大家都今天可能都會非常好奇的到底中油是什麼時候編列這個三接相關預算的 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
430.298 |
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443.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
包委 您是問是整體的計畫嗎對啊 你什麼時候送到立法院來的最原始的計畫是104年編列的那您指的是說修正計畫這個部分是啊 是啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
444.794 |
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451.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
我們是在112年的預算書裡面112年的預算書裡面才編的這筆錢112年才通過那你們是什麼時候決標的121年你覺得合理嗎部長部長我這題往你講這樣夠合理他們112年才送到立法院來可是他們121年就已經決標了你覺得合理嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
473.307 |
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| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
正常嗎 還是中郵這樣做是正常報告委員 這個行政院部長來 部長你講你覺得這樣有盡興沒有你先講 你先講我再讓他講因為這樣喔 他111年行政院已經合訂了嘛所以一定會報所以行政院也是只要他合訂就可以做都不用報立法院你覺得這樣合理嗎所以他預算一定會編在112年嘛但是他已經絕標 他都自己招標了耶 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
503.739 |
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517.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
因為他的預算的動資沒有超過當初這個所以你的意思就是說他不用送立法院他就可以自行決定他要怎麼花是嗎沒有 立法院一定要合計掛錢的程度內你知道週刊裡面怎麼寫週刊裡面寫說中郵在錄音檔裡面大言不慚的說中郵的錢最多 什麼都不欠 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
528.729 |
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530.17 |
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就是這種態度花錢大手大腳而且還不用經立法院把立法院當作橡皮圖章部長你覺得這樣對嗎我可能要稍微說明一下那個錄音檔周刊講的這個錄音檔是講業者之間的對話 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
546.659 |
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551.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
所以跟中油無關是嗎 是這樣子嗎我在講中油的財務狀況2022年虧損2144億2023年虧損169億2024年再虧355億負債比已經高達93% |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
567.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
569.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
2025年上半年再虧159億這當然有因應能源價格穩定民生的責任但是這種花錢的態度這種大手大腳花錢的態度才是中油虧損的主因 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
585.126 |
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594.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
那我真的很不能理解說怎麼會一個負債累累的公司早就如果假設是民營企業應該每一塊錢都斤斤計較結果在法務部上個禮拜法務部調查局廉政署的報告裡面都寫得很清楚所有國營事業裡面中油貪賭的案件就是最多的 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
608.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
623.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
所以呢這個社會當然會質疑說是不是有亂花錢那這個才是三接必按大家會這麼重視的這麼嚴重的一個地方所以董事長我希望你內部也要整頓啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
624.193 |
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650.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
你是不是內部要整頓一下 部長你也要監督他們呀否則怎麼會連連法務部連這個調查局 連政署都說中油是這個弊案最多 貪賭最多的那也希望說這個部長一定要努力監督他們中油能不能重新獲得社會的信任就看董事長願不願意趕快整頓而且呢內部的行政調查報告也要盡快的公布啊好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
654.036 |
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654.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
謝謝 |