| IVOD_ID |
165557 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165557 |
| 日期 |
2025-11-19 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-4-19-11 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期經濟委員會第11次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
11 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
19 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
經濟委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期經濟委員會第11次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-11-19T09:31:13+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-11-19T09:42:53+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:11:40 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/9c5448532e3833d129c087e3c63778d856e0913f8e9ddf6ff2a9d4295e9d8f3a06b5fab5b46a0e585ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
邱議瑩 |
| 委員發言時間 |
09:31:13 - 09:42:53 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-11-19T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期經濟委員會第11次全體委員會議（事由：邀請經濟部部長率台灣中油股份有限公司董事長及行政院公共工程委員會首長就「中油三接案第二期遭檢舉浮報工程款項爭議」進行報告，並備質詢。
【11月19日及20日二天一次會】） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
0.51 |
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請做詢答謝謝主席我請一下部長我們再請工部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
21.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
37.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
卓文早部長早部長我想在進入今天的主題之前有一個是攸關民生的部分想要就教於經濟部非洲豬瘟造成台灣的巨大的影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
38.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
57.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
那我們經濟部現在有一個豬肉攤商防疫損失的補助每一攤會補助三萬塊但是現在有一個問題來了就是在我想這個應該不只高雄市啦全台灣有很多偏鄉的地區其實有一些豬肉的攤商他不是在市場內擺攤 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
58.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
77.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
他是在自己家裡騎樓或者是街邊以個體戶的方式去販售豬肉他不是社攤在傳統的市場之內喔那部長我要請教像這樣的狀態他能不能被補助來這是我到這是在美濃的街上我隨便就可以拍了好幾攤的豬肉商 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
79.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
106.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
他們就是在自家的門口或者是在騎樓或者是在街邊那我去詢問過高雄市政府高雄市政府一開始他有點害怕因為經濟部頒訂的標準裡頭並沒有給他們一個完整的規範所以他認為高雄市政府很怕他如果現在把它造冊了之後審計單位是不認帳的所以我想要請教一下經濟部如果依照這樣子的一個標準 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
108.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
136.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
經濟部認不認那地方能不能現在開始去放寬或者是怎麼樣去認列這一些不在傳統市場裡頭的又或者是有一些是在批發市場裡面的豬肉零售商它其實也不在原來的規定的範圍之內喔這些能不能認列那地方政府應該怎麼做可不可以請經濟部回答一下報告委員因為這一次的非洲豬瘟的案件因為它是全面進行全台灣的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
137.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
162.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
所以针对这个生鲜猪肉我们禁止他运送宰杀跟贩卖那实际上就是造成从业人员他的一些损失跟损伤所以重点在于这些人员的认定他有没有受到损伤损失不在于说是不是在市场里面所以我们这一次就从宽认定只要你有真的有贩卖的营业事实那你有受到损失那我们就补助你 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
162.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
176.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
那他提供什麼一些資料真的有販賣的事實比如說像這些照片佐證啊還是說他要有一些買跟批發買賣豬肉的這些收據不是 這個就是我們尊重地方政府他來認定 因為他比較清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
176.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
197.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
因為他在地嘛他很清楚這個豬肉攤他到底過去有沒有在營業嘛只要他認定了我們就認定就沒有問題如果是這樣的話我想可能也要請這個經濟部通函或者是讓各縣市政府很清楚的知道我們的認定標準不會只有在傳統市場之內 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
199.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
215.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
比如說像這一些偏鄉的街邊的在自己自家騎樓的這一些豬肉攤商受到影響的我們一律都是可以認列可以造冊讓地方政府趕快下去做這一些這一方面的協助可以嗎這個部分是不是能夠請經濟部今天 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
216.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
244.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
之前我們已經有發新聞稿那我們可以再發沒有問題你的新聞稿可能寫得不清不楚啦所以我看不只高雄市政府應該還有其他的地方他們其實對於這個列管造冊其實是有一些疑慮到底應該怎麼做這個我想要請部長我們跟高雄市政府有溝通了他們也理解了所以就儘快來做好這個可能要請基金部儘快部長那我要接下來要請教這個比較 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
246.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
264.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
重大的時事議題這個這兩天大概討論非常多包括這個就是有關於台積電的前資深副總是不是帶走了先進製程這些資料那我看昨天媒體有請教經濟部您的回答是說這個應該由台積電來 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
267.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
293.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
回應嘛部長我要請教就這件事情上面其實牽扯到的是整個他有可能會涉及到國安法這是國家先進製程這個是非常核心的這些製程站在國家的立場上面站在經濟部的立場上面部長您對這件事情的看法是什麼你對這件事情的初步了解是什麼能不能在這裡跟大家說明一下跟本席說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
293.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
308.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
是 报告委员这个有三个层面来探讨第一个就是您刚才提到的国家安全层次的问题第二个层次就是整体的产业利益的问题第三个才是个别企业它的利益 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
309.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
337.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
那就国安城市来讲的话我们要确定就是说这件事情是不是有危害到国家的利益跟安全那现在您看到了这个高检署已经开始在调查那我想我们经济部会配合他调查因为什么样的这个核心技术这个是我们定的那我们会充分的跟高检署来做说明那当然什么样的资料被带走这个要由台积电他来认定 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
337.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
355.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
那我們來認定說這個被帶走的這些相關技術是不是符合國家關鍵的技術那這個我們可以充分的負責說明所以台積電的部分跟經濟部這邊做接觸了嗎就到底他被帶走的資料或者是說認定上哪一些關鍵基礎的這個是屬於核心資料的這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
361.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
379.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
你們有進一步的做溝通進一步做討論了嗎就這件事情上面我們有請同仁去了解啦但是就是說到底被帶走什麼樣的資訊我想這個是屬於台積電他的營業秘密啦這個我們不好替他說明如果他說明了也要由他來做說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
379.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
402.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
那我们就讲说企业端的它的相关的是不是符合行业秘密我们也会跟这些公司来做合作他如果需要我们协助提出这个营业秘密的诉讼的话那我们也协助他那至于第三个层次就是整体产业利益的部分那我们会持续的关注这个议题会不会影响到我们整个 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
403.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
417.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
半導體的供應鏈的影響或衝擊或者是對於這些客戶會不會有所影響我們會持續的關注我想這件事情應該也要把它列為經濟部現在現階段一個很重要的關心的議題 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
418.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
447.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
这个关乎到国内的所有的这些半导体产业的发展这个不只是台积电的有可能面临到它的核心基础的这些资讯被窃这个关乎到整个半导体的产业链的基础发展对于国家整体的经济发展是非常重要的所以我要请经济部要密切的而且要百分之百能够掌握这一些进度这个能够做得到吗我们会持续的关注这个议题好 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
448.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
462.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
那接下來我要請教這個主席今天排定的這個議題三接的這個 到底這個預算是不是真的如媒體的爆料要求說你們加價啦 增加一點啦到底這個預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
465.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
482.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
從94%暴增到最後的253%大家看到這個帳面數字都會覺得中油真的這麼有錢這工程真的可以這樣亂編但是我剛剛看中油的這些報告裡頭其實並沒有很清楚的寫出比如說你的預算要從94億增加到253億 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
484.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
495.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
你勢必要經過很多內部公司的討論你的變更計畫包括變更的預算規劃這個應該是公司內部都要經過很多次的討論跟很多次的這一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
497.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
514.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
會議嘛 對不對那這一些會議有沒有可能在不涉及你們內部的機密的狀態之下能夠讓外界甚或事實上立法院很清楚的知道在你們整體的決策過程裡頭到底是怎麼樣處理這個事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
515.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
539.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
我沒有看到中郵很完整的去說明這一段那如果持續的被有心人士這樣操作的話那檢調的調查 司法的調查還沒有完整以前其實中郵就已經被判了未審先判就被已經判定有罪了中郵能不能去就這一點去做更完整的說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
539.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
558.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
有沒有可能 董事長報告員 就是在我的書面報告裡面已經有提到了我們這個案子是委託台灣世西去做預算編列 設計以及預算編列所以對公司而言 我們收到的第一板就是238.4億 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
560.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
565.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
沒有出現過94億 120億 150億這些數字從來沒有也就從238.4億之後呢依照採購法來去辦理相關的程序最後預算的決定是253億那你們這個有針對這樣的報導去提出反駁嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
582.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
601.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
沒有 只有在立法院報告的時候有提到這一部分所以包括媒體這樣的報導從94億到122億到253億您現在提出來說世西提出的第一版的預算編列世西顧問公司在規劃的時候是你說多少 293億啊238億到最後定案的是253億那這個過程裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
611.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
621.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
我認為應該要再對外界做更清楚的說明事實上我們也已經對外做了一個說明新聞稿也做這樣一個同樣的說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
624.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
651.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
這個事情現在應該檢調也開始介入調查嘛所以有一些相關的資料你們應該要提供給檢調的或者是說中油在內部對於整個這個預算的編定整個工程的計畫其實中油應該如果有機會的話其實還是要對外示意啦否則你讓有心人一直不斷的醜話一直不斷的抹黑 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
652.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
675.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
這是我剛剛所講的那到底有沒有這樣的公安疑雲有沒有這樣的所謂的錄音疑雲有沒有這樣的預算膨脹我覺得這個對於國人來講其實是非常關心的三接的工程這個預算到底是怎麼編列世西當時的估算是什麼世西也可以出來講清楚啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
676.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
696.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
對不對你要讓大家知道你這個工程是要怎麼做為什麼會變成這麼多錢即使世新原來規劃是238億到你後來最終決定的是253億這個中間還是有個十幾億的落差嘛那這個十幾億的落差是怎麼來的我覺得你們還是要對外能夠說明清楚好不好好 謝謝 |