| IVOD_ID |
165555 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165555 |
| 日期 |
2025-11-19 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-4-36-9 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期司法及法制委員會第9次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
9 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
36 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
司法及法制委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期司法及法制委員會第9次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-11-19T09:17:56+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-11-19T09:37:36+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:19:40 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/9c5448532e3833d18dd3f4e8ceadba5d7e24dce8f91e16eef2a9d4295e9d8f3adf384419043f4e855ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
黃國昌 |
| 委員發言時間 |
09:17:56 - 09:37:36 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-11-19T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期司法及法制委員會第9次全體委員會議（事由：邀請司法院副秘書長、法務部部長、法務部調查局局長、行政院打擊詐欺指揮中心指揮官、內政部警政署署長、數位發展部、國家通訊傳播委員會、經濟部、金融監督管理委員會、個人資料保護委員會籌備處等就「太子集團涉詐案、跨部會防詐及打詐成效，以及參考新加坡打詐鞭刑入法之可行性評估」進行專題報告，並備質詢。） |
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好 謝謝主席 有請法務部部長 調查局局長以及金管會 今天是銀行局局長來嗎來 有請局長請幾位機關的長官來到請盤 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
23.806 |
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44.358 |
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好 三位好 時間的關係不宜問候太子集團這一個跨國詐欺己前的集團的案子啊 切漏了以後我想台灣社會非常的震驚也讓全體的國人開始問一件事我們的政府講打詐國家隊講得很大聲實際上 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
47.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
64.706 |
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實際上對在我國境內所從事的這麼大規模集團的詐欺也好幫忙洗錢也好卻是渾然不覺等到10月8號美國聯邦檢察官對陳志等人提起公訴了以後 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
66.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
77.298 |
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14號美國的財政部宣布制裁那個時候變成公開的資訊引發台灣社會軒然我們的北檢才在15號匆匆的分案當然這個消息出來了以後 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
81.906 |
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100.833 |
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台灣的人民非常的震驚 舉國花瀾同時也對我們的打炸國家隊到底在幹嘛大家是充滿了非常多的困惑不過也沒有關係 當政府出事的時候我們的綠媒很快就幫忙大內宣了 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
101.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
116.763 |
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大內宣是什麼本報掌握我國調查局很早就掌握九家公司捲入太子集團犯罪也持續跟美國進行情報交換我每一個字都是源於媒體上面所說的 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
117.623 |
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130.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
來先請教一下調查局局長他說調查局很早就掌握九家公司捲入太子集團犯罪所謂很早就掌握是什麼時候掌握本案大概在108年銀行有陸續申報108年就掌握了 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
132.561 |
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161.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
不是委員聽我說他108年銀行有陸續申報一些可疑的交易那我們就從108年開始我們也陸續有經過銀行的申報以後我們有延編了一些金融的請知分送給這個相關的執法機關以及我們的國際的指揮相關的執法機關是誰包含調查局包含那個調查局不就是你們自己你們自己分送給自己喔對那個洗錢防治署它是一個金融情報中心它不是一個辦案單位是是 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
162.217 |
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181.858 |
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所以就分給你們自己調查局嗎也有警政署的部分也有警政署嗎然後也有國際友方的部分然後呢對 所以就是透過這樣子的一個金融情質逐步的建構我們才發現說這個集團在我們國內你們什麼時候發現的這個可能要在110年以後110年發現的110年以後 是 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
185.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
201.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
那最後為什麼是美國聯邦的檢察官破案因為本案其實如果委員有注意媒體本案其實是一個很大型的跨國詐騙的犯罪其實他的總部是在柬埔寨並不是在我們台灣我們台灣的部分是他以前藏匿資產的一個點請你聽我講話好嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
205.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
223.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
我不是請你上來演講的請你針對問題回答就好了你等一下就會知道我為什麼會問時間問得這麼具體啊剛剛你說110年你們就開始發現有問題剛剛我問題的重點我沒有期待你們去破獲總部在柬埔寨的炸雞集團 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
225.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
242.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
我關心的是什麼在台灣的犯罪行為調查局掌握了情資也分給情資給各個執法機關開始進行調查接下來到底做了什麼事為什麼我會這麼關心那個不是只有事後大內宣的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
243.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
268.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
是在中間的這個過程當中大家關心的是我們所謂的執法機關到底做了什麼事台灣人民看到的是什麼台灣人民看到的是原來要等到美國的聯邦檢察官起訴了以後我們才匆匆的分案才開始去做強制處分這個時序我沒有捏造 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
270.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
292.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
所以大家會關心嘛關心如果調查局早就掌握的話從110年就掌握啦我們110年持續的掌握然後掌握了以後有分送情資而且在我們的調查局大家共同的努力之下幫助美國聯邦的檢察官破獲這個大型的跨國炸雞洗錢集團 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
295.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
322.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
針對在台灣境內的犯罪唯獨針對在台灣境內的犯罪等到人家動作了以後我們才後知後覺為什麼問這個問題2019年4月詐騙集團密集的購置豪宅掩飾不法資金2019年7月太子集團在台灣的負責人張剛耀高調的受訪這個全部都是客觀的資訊 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
325.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
352.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
到2021年的時候檢警偵辦境外賭博網站的案件柬埔寨太子集團在台的代表人就是張剛耀就是張剛耀這是2021年不起訴處分確定現在我有一點看不懂如果你們在2020年陸陸續續就掌握了這些情資怎麼這個張剛耀當初這個境外賭博網站的案件會不起訴 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
355.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
383.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
這個大牛啊 科技有限公司就是 來來來張剛耀在台灣你們報告上面設立了這九家公司最下面一個就是大牛科技啊那在你們調查局早就掌握到了情資甚至分送情資的情況下結果張剛耀我們的檢警偵辦境外賭博網站案件結果他會不起訴處分確定 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
386.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
414.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
那不僅僅是賭博網站的問題還有背後洗錢網絡的問題所以我現在覺得很狐疑啊你們早就掌握到了情資那這個案子是怎麼辦的誰要回答是你不知道還是發生了什麼事還是檢察官辦案不力還是你們有把情資給地檢署 地檢署沒有掌握 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
416.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
430.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
包委員 這個部分其實是這個太子集團它裡面內訌的問題不是啊 內訌是下一個案子他們裡面的人自己出來告這個張綱耀對不起喔 分兩個部分太子集團內訌是下一個案子 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
431.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
454.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
這是前面的案子你剛講的所謂內訌是下一個案子告侵佔的問題從台灣這邊匯走了9億的資金這是第二個案子我還沒有問到第二個案子請你看清楚這是第一個案子第一個案子是大牛科技有限公司為什麼我會點大牛科技有限公司 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
455.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
476.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
就是你們這是點名的這九家公司其中一個大牛科技有限公司負責人這九家公司負責人全部都是張剛耀我為什麼說我問你時間點是有具體的原因的你們說你們早就掌握了早就掌握了也分送了情資啊那我現在看不懂啊看不懂 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
478.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
500.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
這個已經是境外賭博網站的案件境外賭博網站的案件在我們打詐的偵查上面通常會跟洗錢掛在一起處理嗎這個案子是發生什麼事你們真的早就掌握了嗎真的早就掌握了那是這個檢察官在辦這個案子的時候太廢嗎怎麼會這樣呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
507.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
533.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
這個案子不是我們調查局受理的所以跟你們沒有關係 來 那個警政署署長不是啊 因為現在事情鬧得很大了嘛然後檢察官也收網了嘛 到處去搜索嘛扣押 該申請羈押的人也申請羈押了那我們現在回溯來看嘛到底發生了什麼事 因為台灣社會很關心啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
534.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
556.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
我們投入了這麼多資源 成立打炸國家隊相關媒體的內宣也從來沒少過出了這麼大的事情以後 調查局對社會說沒有 我們不是不知不覺我們早就發現了 還提供情資因為我們提供了情資 導致可以破獲這麼大的集團 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
557.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
578.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
我越看越不懂啊那如果是這個樣子的話先不要講我們提供的情資對美國的破案幫助有多大有幫助就好善盡國際社會打擊犯罪一份子的責任但怎麼對我們自己境內的事情麻木不仁不知不覺警政署後來有去了解嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
579.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
603.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
那個包委員那對於剛剛所講這個調查局就是說有提供我們這邊大概在110年有5件的這個金流的這個狀況那我們也有去做分析啦那去做分析就是說不好意思喔 署長剛剛你可能在下面有恍神我的問題你沒聽清楚請你看螢幕這個案子 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
605.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
627.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
2021年檢警偵辦境外賭博網站案件柬埔寨太子集團在台的代表人張剛耀不起訴確定剛調查局說這個案子不是他們辦的如果不是調查員辦的 鐵定就是警察辦的總不可能檢察官自己下去辦吧那跟委員報告 因為這個案辦了這個結果也是有做起訴 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
629.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
651.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
對啊但是張剛耀沒有起訴啊你們下面的工程師都起訴上面的負責人把他放掉這就是我看不懂的啊這可能是證據上的連結的問題證據上連結的問題那現在就來啦如果調查局早就發現了相關的情資也分送了結果在我們境內 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
653.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
668.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
在我們境內早就破獲了太子集團下面境外賭博網站的案件了但是國人看到的是什麼國人看到的是這個集團重要的成員張剛耀不起訴處分確定剛剛電話局局長說 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
672.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
693.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
後來是黑撕黑 搬錢搬了9億 鬧內訌跑掉了他怎麼在台灣這樣洗錢洗9億啊這是我們後續要去追金管會的問題但我現在的問題是完全看不懂 完全看不懂這是在我們境內的案子 調查局也說早就掌握了 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
694.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
721.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
然後也開始進行調查了開始進行情搜了結果搞了半天我們2021年有沒有辦過太子集團的案子有辦過啊怎麼會沒辦過張靚耀的案子就辦過啦但大家看到辦的結果是什麼工程師起訴負責人沒事那負責人沒事以後才發生剛剛局長我說講的第二個案子嘛黑是黑嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
722.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
737.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
黑吃黑了以後搬了9億走現在被通緝當中2021年的案子到底發生了什麼事情我本來以為這個案子現在鬧得這麼大現在鬧得這麼大我們相關的執法部門會回溯去看在這幾年的期間當中我們到底做了什麼事案件辦的結果是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
751.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
760.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
但是從今天各位在詢答上面的表現上來看顯然是沒有做到這件事時間的關係最後來請教金管會調查局一直說有相關的洗錢通報媒體下標是洗錢通報52次然後銀行局說你們會約詢相關銀行檢視是否善盡反洗錢的責任現在結果是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
781.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
795.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
我們有做初步的金融檢查這10家金融機構他們在洗錢通報的過程裡面大概都有依照我們相關的規定進行相關的通報所以通報完了以後還是沒有辦法達到防治的效果嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
797.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
823.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
從銀行局的觀點來看是發生什麼事情在我們洗錢房市的分工上面金融機構一定要去做有效的這個疑似可疑交易這個我了解那現在我的問題是說我們做疑似洗錢通報的目的是要防止洗錢嘛在前端的時候先管制嘛那我現在的疑問是洗錢的通報高達52次剛剛按照局長所講的銀行該做的都有做嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
824.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
849.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
銀行該做的都有做嘛在洗錢房子上面銀行該做的都有做那顯然這個洗錢房子的通報根本沒有辦法達到前端的效果沒有辦法達到前不管是預防還是偵測的效果局長你覺得我說的有錯嗎因為我覺得很困惑啦因為洗錢房子的通報利益良善 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
850.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
873.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
但是在第一端的時候常常造成一般的公民很大的困擾一般的公民做一些事情那大家也知道搞得這麼麻煩是為了要落實洗錢防治大家也盡量配合但我現在的問題來了整個社會其實付出蠻高的代價跟成本在幫忙做這件事 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
876.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
889.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
那在太子集團的這個案子裡面有洗錢房子的通報 通報52次銀行端也善盡了責任那但最後看起來是沒有什麼成效銀行局對這件事情有什麼想法 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
890.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
913.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
因為我們畢竟是整個洗房機制的一環那在金融機構的部分他有散盡他洗房衣物的通報那當然如果說相關的有一些那個情資的分享當然金融機構在做相關金流的這個阻擋也會更有效率所以像這一次我們有接到檢方的一個通報我們馬上就把相關的賬戶給凍結起來好最後一個問題喔不好意思最後一個問題來有請刑事廳廳長 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
920.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
941.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
這個案子我們的法務部部長雖然通常說那個行政部門對個案不介入不干涉不評論這個是禮拜一法務部的書面報告寫的對個案不介入不干涉不評論但是太子集團的案子太大了我們的行政院卓榮泰院長都評論了 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
942.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
966.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
雖然是個案他也是評論 因為有委員問他說參效女助理15萬交保卓榮泰怒批法院輕放 重錯打詐士氣這個是卓榮泰講的卓榮泰是選擇性的在個案裡面會發表他的評論他怒批法院輕放 司法院有沒有什麼話要說 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
969.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
995.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
呃 這是個案喔 那對於法院的核心裁定 我們原則上我們予以尊重平常尤其是你完全搞不清楚狀況遇到左翁他也不敢講喔不是 這個部分喔15萬交保是誰交保的上次在上個禮拜我們副秘書長在答詢的時候就已經說出來了這個郵存預的部分是由檢方在訓控交保的跟法院有關係 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
997.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
1005.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
還在那邊核心的裁定你不評論法院有做裁定嗎裁定在哪裡裁定在哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
1009.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
1018.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
然後左榮泰怒批法院輕放撞臭打詐士氣我現在沒有問你啊你急著趕快出來幫左榮泰洗地喔我有請你上來回答嗎我有請你上來回答嗎我現在是請司法院表達他的意見我有請法務部部長回答嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
1040.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
1047.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
所以嘛卓榮泰怒批就不對嘛不管是法院15案還是檢察官15案這是個案欸行政院院長怎麼可以怒批 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
1067.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
1091.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
重挫 打詐士氣還是法務部的立場要看誰怒批如果是院長怒批 院長好棒棒超級有魄力啊 超級有魄力啊院長代表我們的行政團隊代表行政團隊表達政府的立場啊但是如果是別人怒批 這是個案我們不評論 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
1093.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
1119.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
不介入 不干涉尊重法院的裁定尊重檢察官的裁定雙標至極啊雙標至極啊沒有雙標啦這個本來就是依照回到事務的本質再處理嘛是嘛 沒有錯啊你要趕快跟院長報告啊報告院長這要按照事務的本質來處理我們要尊重法院的裁定要尊重檢察官的裁定請院長息怒 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
1120.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
1128.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
不要隨便怒批重犯那個檢察官已經按照那個依照那個法院的一個裁定我們做一個事實的一個主張嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
1129.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
1139.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
不好意思喔 我現在在講的是你應該跟卓榮泰講的啊然後結果你是想到不知道要講什麼隨便上來講兩句話來舔嗎所以我說卓榮泰不能夠怒批法院重放我說卓榮泰罵錯人了 這樣也有錯卓榮泰真的罵錯人啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
1156.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
1176.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
他罵法院幹嘛法院從來沒做裁定啊卓榮泰罵完了以後台北地院司法院還發新聞稿耶寫得很客氣啦但是翻成白話文我跟大家翻譯一下報告院長你罵錯人啦法官從來沒有做裁定好 謝謝 |