| IVOD_ID |
165541 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165541 |
| 日期 |
2025-11-18 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
院會-11-4-9 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期第9次會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
9 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
院會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期第9次會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-11-18T15:02:15+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-11-18T15:32:07+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:29:52 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/15ce70573aea8c154ed8135c463e8cc302704d746941b03703a347d547cf20ed135377653bbc0bde5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
魯明哲 |
| 委員發言時間 |
15:02:15 - 15:32:07 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-11-18T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
第11屆第4會期第9次會議（事由：一、討論事項：本院民進黨黨團，針對第11屆第1會期第9次會議報告事項第33案委員丁學忠等19人擬具「公立學校教職員退休資遣撫卹條例第三十七條條文修正草案」院會所作之決定提出復議。是否有當？請公決案等16案。二、行政院院長、主計長、財政部部長、行政院公共工程委員會主任委員及相關部會首長列席報告「中央政府花蓮馬太鞍溪堰塞湖災後重建特別預算案」編製經過並備質詢（11月18日上午）。三、對行政院院長施政報告繼續質詢（11月18日下午）。四、11月14日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。） |
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明澤委員質詢 陳超明委員請準備好 謝謝主席 有請我們行政院卓議員長麻煩再請卓議員長 交通部長備詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
30.236 |
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51.781 |
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好 院長 部長好謝謝 盧委員好好 今天直接切入主題今天主要談的是桃園航空城這是一個簡單的示意的願景圖我們看到在過去十幾年桃園航空城不斷被行政院列為十二項國家級的優先建設黃金十年國家的願景 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
52.622 |
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79.597 |
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它是一個國家級的重大公共建設連舊有的機場總共這個都市計畫將近45平方公里4567公頃其中3100多公頃需要做區段徵收旁邊也包括左邊的R3第三跑道那這個部分我想請教一下這個卓院長像這樣的國家級的重大建設你個人的一個願景可不可以簡單表達一下未來會發展什麼樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
82.932 |
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102.062 |
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桃園航空城應該是現階段以來國家最大的一個投資的計畫跟工程的計畫它不僅關鍵在國家的門面也對整個區域的土地的高度利用以及對人民生活品質的改善是具有極大的功能的未來整個我們桃竹苗大溪谷 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
103.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
114.013 |
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產業的進出要仰賴整個航空城來帶動所有產業從垂直的供應鏈來做各種的這個配合我想這個是國家具體的發展目標 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
116.033 |
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130.886 |
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謝謝院長因為剛剛我們先把這個主題對焦它確實是一個國家級的一個最重大的一個建設計畫第二個呢它是一個根本從桃園國際機場為核心所發展的一個重大的一個計畫這兩個是一個主題 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
134.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
158.842 |
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說真的我這幾天看到我們民航局我講次長也有去 林次長也有去嘛2025年的桃園國際機場的一個論壇一百多位的學者在那邊交流深度的一個溝通也勾勒出未來我們桃園機場發展的一個願景其實我們看了覺得是很高興但是我今天要講的不是未來有多亮麗 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
159.986 |
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179.76 |
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是要講說過去很多養魚的人看到浴缸那個抱歉魚缸裡魚缸裡燈光一打真的是非常璀璨五光十色的魚水草但是我們今天要談是永遠待在腳邊的那條垃圾魚那條青稻埔 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
180.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
207.269 |
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各位光鮮亮麗魚缸幾隻垃圾魚在吸著魚缸上面的一些廢藻一些廢的飼料當然未來我們桃園航空城要這麼亮麗他的廢棄物垃圾這個清道夫垃圾魚到底是要往哪放那我請這個院長部長看一下簡單來說 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
209.125 |
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228.832 |
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現在整個桃園國際機場垃圾處理現在的機制是民國93年所打造的焚化焚化爐現在已經服役了21年因為服役太久了所以它的功能也退化了從每一天預估可以處理120噸到現在只剩下72噸 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
230.64 |
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254.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
所以現在也面臨了要迎向新的未來嘛那我知道重建計畫也出來啦在今年9月14號可信義評估核定了預估很合理喔過去一二航廈各60噸再加一個三航廈嘛對不對再乘以 再加個60 70噸所以他預估了190噸每日的一個焚化量 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
255.64 |
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281.21 |
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然後他的計畫是用先拆後建你就先把現在有功能雖然只剩下百分之六十七十二工盾每天處理先廢掉然後再開始在上面蓋蓋多久不知道我想這個換部長你講一下吧我想這是機場公司民航局的相關的一個業務嘛你現在你知道這樣的一個情況嗎你覺得這個處理量合不合理啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
282.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
301.723 |
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報告委員我想您大概也會擔心說我們在拆除119到122年中間這一段時間我們的垃圾應該要往哪裡去那這個部分我會請民航局再特別再研究一下去處要先確定才能做拆除的動作如果去處沒有確定這個拆除的動作我認為現在還不能夠這麼快去做 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
303.186 |
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329.617 |
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好 初步看來三卡行下再多加六七十表面看是沒有問題但是你仔細去分析發覺他工程的安排量能的決定跟選址真的有非常多可以檢討政策的一個空間院長其他我們不講20年前民國93年就只有咕咕的桃園國際機場在那裡旁邊都是農地 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
333.305 |
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360.408 |
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坦白講我一個人保全家寶這種觀念我可以接受啦旁邊沒人管東農地啊那就是地方政府處理就結束了可是經過了21年之後我們現在國家級的航空成績計畫以它為核心在那邊擴張這麼配合它的功能結果他現在規劃還是我一家寶我自己寶他讓了他的孩子孫子已經有50人了 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
361.923 |
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364.025 |
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他不是一個多增加三航廈三跑道的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
385.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
409.856 |
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是因為我們國家擬定一個國家級的一個政策變成整個加起來4600多公頃的一個市政包括了產專 自貿 學校 商業 工業 住宅等等還有其他九大專區未來你可以想像的物流 科技 甚至休閒娛樂整個產業我是說真的啦 包括民生的廢棄物 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
410.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
435.071 |
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跟我們產業的事業廢棄物你不能說我就管我自己旁邊謝謝你們物流都以我為中心很棒大家來襯托我桃園國際機場有多棒院級也講了半天然後抱歉你們垃圾抱歉我不處理那國家級以他為核心的計畫居然後面在垃圾處理廢棄物處理是要用外溢 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
436.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
445.944 |
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就移到別的地方哪裡我們不知道所以我這裡真的點出這第一個問題不能這樣不能這樣所以我們看到計畫問題第一個我是鑑於 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
449.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
478.579 |
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這個真的是要部長院長一起努力好我是說真的你現在先拆後建啊你現在只有72噸處理那機場又是 ongoing 現在每一天要進出的然後你把它拆掉然後再想辦法什麼辦法地方政府來支援嘛但地方政府問了嘛一天1300噸的垃圾他處理其實捉襟見軸還要累積50年在垃圾場站置的要去計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
479.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
503.9 |
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那就他們也很辛苦啊有時候釀人不見得可以幫忙那你第二個委託環保公司外應處理其實說真的穩定性啊他丟哪裡真的不知道會不會一個月世界又變一個太陽垃圾世界出來那他到底亂到不是這個我們不能不管耶不管最高處理是縣政府只要是不是誰都不重要當國家有垃圾這樣的亂跑的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
504.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
532.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
我覺得我們行政院尤其在這個在我們機場要處理的能夠幫忙一下這個問題所以第一個在第一個問題我真的是建議老衛市政府跟機場公司在討論整個過程中也參加了他的期中報告期末報告特別提出了希望也建議了兩個新址兩個新址新的地址你不用去把現在正在處理的拆光碼 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
533.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
553.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
好在新址能夠做一個處理這個部分我是拜託部長院長可不可以回去研究一下在新址處理的可能性讓先見後猜這種模式可不可以幫忙考量一下謝謝盧委員提出這樣的提醒我覺得非常的重要也感謝如果現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
554.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
583.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
桃園國際機場的這個焚化爐的擴建工程沒有辦法像委員所說的將來這個量能不足的話那我想他在可行性評估的過程當中一定會重新加以考量至於委員所建議的先建後拆先建後拆是不是可以找到適當的地點可以先建後拆這個也請納入另外我也請環境部來跟委員答覆在原來的計畫當中119年如果先拆後建拆了之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
584.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
604.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
他的垃圾怎麼處理以及航空城他整個多起來的量如何處理是不是除了這個地方之外還有其他的文化廠正在計劃興建當中有沒有辦法來滿足這個部分我想一併整體的來向委員做報告謝謝院長已經有了解這個問題的一個主要的訴求了 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
605.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
630.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
那現在計劃的問題 第一個是說能不能有新的地址能夠先見後猜 無縫接軌之外 第二個問題是說量能足不足的問題正好昨天看到我們高雄的越世界一查什麼台南的還名聲垃圾 我以為是事業廢棄物垃圾到底怎麼跑 我們不知道 我們不講那一條只是說在這樣的一個處理的全國量能 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
630.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
649.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
到底是發生了怎麼回事為什麼有這樣的的家用垃圾我們不管是任何縣政府不能處理我也拜託行政院在這樣的一個機會現在你要做一個焚化廠市上不太容易很難那機場公司是現有因為比較地屬比較偏遠 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
650.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
669.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
確實有這個機會我要拜託第一件事千萬千萬不能夠自己保全家保這種想法190公頓每一天是絕對絕對不負責任的思考不周的我們真的是希望能夠擴展至少要到1000公頓每一天這是我個人的一個建言為什麼呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
670.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
699.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
除了第一個要納入航空城未來的發展我們希望他發展的好在我們幾次都市計畫審議跟相關的行政院的會議啊都預估未來20萬到30萬的人口專業人士要去做進駐第二個其實區域垃圾策略處理啊你的爐也會碎休嗎我的爐也會碎休其實不管誰有誰出問題現在都是地方在合作合作不了也是行政院 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
700.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
726.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
環境部在幫忙去做協調處理所以我們國家有機會的時候要一些餘量我覺得這個是必須要去考量的最後一個要考慮的問題我這次真的是要拜託部長院長這次可信性評估剛過還好我認為還來得及啊因為最大的環評啊環評啊如果環評地點要改定那完了就還沒開始終歸環評完全還沒開始他預估64億 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
732.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
742.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
64億然後能夠處理190噸每一天那我們再想一個問題院長我們想一個問題如果64億可以蓋500噸可以蓋800噸 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
746.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
772.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
甚至只要多個五億十億七十幾億可以蓋到一千噸的處理量他自己處理這種是有自償率的一噸垃圾兩千塊誰哪一個哪一個誰要來燒你是要收錢的所以到底可不可以我們希望第三個能不能考量因為投入的成本應該極大化那我們直接來看 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
772.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
792.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
我要拜託一下 待會去參考啦我可以資料到時候給院長部長就講近年遠的不講最近3到5年正在蓋 已經蓋在規劃的一個案子我們現在看第一個就是我們現在的桃園稽查預估的要焚化爐花64億蓋190噸日出力量第二個嘉義市的綠能 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
798.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
805.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
一個也是焚化爐他是63.7億價錢一樣他處理500噸日出力量那張濱工業區的他花了58億錢更少蓋700噸的日出力量 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
813.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
838.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
台南晨曦垃圾焚化爐他花了70億每天處理900噸的垃圾量在這裡能不能去第二個以成本效益來考量土地難得取得有這樣的機會如果投入六七十億甚至八十億因為這是可以自償的甚至我們可以自己蓋桃園新北誰的垃圾來一噸2000塊 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
840.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
862.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
這個的部分我覺得是不是請交通部這個部分以64億你們去評估別的如果可以頓速蓋多有餘量處理我們航空城未來發展是基本有餘量幾百噸未來有可能來支援我們行政院全國的一個垃圾調度我想部長這個可以幫忙嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
864.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
884.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
這個部分我們來研究一下我想在機場蓋焚化爐一方面是處理垃圾那二方面也要思考一個是飛安的問題如果我們做一個很大量的那個煙囪會不會很高周圍的民眾會不會要求煙囪要加高這也是另外一個飛安的問題我們可能跟航空城這邊或者是跟淘氣公司我們詳細來研究這個東西一定要研究 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
887.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
904.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
我所了解的一定要找一個平衡點現在的技術已經不是量體煙囪要多高的這你們要去研究如果也確實有這樣的不影響到飛安又可以去解決這個問題的話我真的希望院長部長能夠一併考量最後三點建議剛剛都已經建議過了第一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
906.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
931.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
拜託能夠考量加大處理能量量能是一定要的你至少要先把自己航空程納進去然後可以支援多少我們真的是希望能夠到做一個嘛能夠到一千噸第二個希望能夠星子然後做先見後猜垃圾無縫接軌第三個中央跟地方合作為什麼因為這國家級的計畫剛剛看土地 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
934.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
961.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
交通部兩塊桃園市政府幾塊這是以中央地方合作的國家級計畫我想合作的面向一定不能夠省掉我們廢棄無處理好不好非常感謝盧委員這個三點的建議我們非常的重視我們已經請交通部還有環境部好好的跟委員來討論重點在未來中央地方能夠加強合作這個計畫才能可行我們願意來努力我也期待我們桃園機場成為這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
964.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
976.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
我們核心啊航空人核心的一個願景啊不要變成了機場製造門城水的雪的奇景好這個部分需要來幫忙那部長請回 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
977.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
999.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
那第二個呢 其實不是交通委員會的問題但是實在接到了緊急的陳情 跟地方的一個抗爭也沒辦法 必須透過這個平台來跟這個院長溝通也希望院長能夠帶回去 帶回去能夠協助去處理第二問題是 我們國軍要在全國興建三座室內清兵地靶場 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
1001.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
1029.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
這個部分上面有寫今年跟明年是先期規劃然後116到118是工程的期間他主要的目的第一個室外靶場嘛會吵嘛危險嘛所以要減少居民的抗爭然後兼顧生活的品質第二個降低音爆這是民眾很歡迎的第三個當然是要杜絕維安事件這是要做清兵打場的 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
1030.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
1047.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
主要的一個目的我覺得主要目的如果沒有達到的話這個部分可能目標就有問題所以我想先請教因為國防部長畢竟沒來我也不會很苛刻的那但是院長你有沒有聽過這個計畫我倒是比較沒有聽到這樣的新的計畫你不知道這個計畫我倒是不知道這個計畫那這個計畫主要目的那我們來看一下發生什麼事呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
1059.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
1088.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
那既然你不知道我就不用問了我就直接說了三個計劃這三個靶場從新北桃園到台南三個靶場因為呢你看上面黃誌的自由時報在5月19號還特別特別來幫這個專案做一個報導他的標題就是國軍後年興建三座清兵境的靶場落腳在這三個城市吧都已經很熱了可是一看 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
1089.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
1110.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
三個靶場我們問國防部剛才問說沒有這是很重要的我們地方室內靶場我們都支持只是選址你們怎麼選的要清楚結果我不論不知道一問嚇一跳這個計畫才剛開始啟動我一問說他說委員已經有兩個被消滅掉的兩個打岔了我說我的天啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
1111.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
1124.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
你才剛起步你就左膀右背都打斷了被誰打斷自己打斷你看一下新北新店東營區114年3月20號撤案今年3月20號撤案為什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
1130.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
1154.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
國軍已有其他專案了這個回去給你啊我覺得很離譜你知道嗎國防部管國軍各個部隊然後某一個計畫我要做清兵靶場我編了然後說我是在立法院尋答我整個看經過了非常嚴謹預算都已經選好營區了經過了非常重要的評選的機制選址也是選得非常專業 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
1155.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
1178.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
結果還沒啟動你知道嗎國防部就自己擦後 這個不行哎呀 你怎麼不早講我覺得你這裡面有多頭馬車一個國防部 你在立法院國防委員會講的斬釘截鐵的話回頭三個巴掌自己還沒啟動 滅掉兩個因為有專案 3月20號就撤案右邊的台南 也是有一個海軍的專案所以都是事後 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
1180.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
1193.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
講了半天預算就通過了結果發覺市級自費武功啊但我覺得這很糟糕我就覺得這個從選址就已經出了很大的問題國防部裡面到底發生什麼多頭馬車的問題這種椅子的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
1195.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
1222.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
我跟你跟院長報告這兩個被打X的案子齁都是已經其他國防部的單位已經執連執行兩年以上的計畫你知道嗎 國防部他們的市長在要新清兵地靶場要出來選址的時候他居然不知道那個其他專案已經把那地用掉了兩年啊 我的天啊怎麼這麼不精準啊那這兩個是要 那你再看一下下面這個格子喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
1223.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
1240.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
我覺得不能這樣因為我們最近也經常為了預算吵架我也相信院長在這裡講很多都是斬釘截鐵的那這個就很扯你看到左邊新北營區3月20號就申請測案了國防部心知肚明 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
1241.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
1265.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
到了4月24號還寫一個解凍100萬解凍的一個說明書還是在寫我有這三座靶場包括新北的這個靶場我們還是繼續要做所以拜託你凍結一毛都不行你這個東西太離譜了你到了6月11號這兩個都已經自己撤掉了 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
1266.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
1286.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
解凍你來國安委員會然後也不講報告也不說明然後通過之後通過你兩個已經廢掉不做的院長這樣好不好你雖然不知道這整個過程可你覺得這樣的流程是不是有改善的空間啊是呃我應該先了解一下他原構想是怎麼樣那這兩個 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
1289.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
1310.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
新北跟台南的說國軍也有其他的專案是這個靶場移到其他去還是原來這個靶場的用地會有其他的計畫如果是這個靶場的用地有其他的計畫那我可以理解說靶場當然重要但就使用的建設跟使用程度來講它不是一個最精密高度的需求它也許有轉換成其他的需求 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
1311.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
1329.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
好 院長你剛沒聽懂我的意思就是國防部一個單位已經執行了兩年計畫結果我們在決定新年度預算的時候居然不知道國防部另外一個單位居然也要在上面蓋營舍蓋靶場 這是不對的這個靶場的用地已經有其他的用途了這是絕對不對的 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
1330.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
1353.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
因為不對第一個你內部是不是多頭馬車誰也搞不清楚誰第二個不知情的國防部長跟次長在報告跟立委變成每一句都是騙就是明明已經撤銷了嘛你還要什麼預算我覺得這樣是絕對不行的我覺得希望這個部分啊要帶回去啊那就但是現在有個問題啊重大的計畫我要全國蓋三個靶場 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
1355.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
1383.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
然後還沒開始 自己滅掉兩個 現在剩一個巴掌這個計畫已經不成計畫 你知道嗎你整個區域分配真的已經不成計畫了那你知道 剩我桃園的桃園正好在我們中壢現在在幹嘛呢 你看一下那兩個已經自己自飛武功了現在他因為在抗爭中 為什麼他在人口稠密區而且完全沒與地方溝通 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
1384.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
1411.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
好不好那這個部分我也只希望院長你能夠真的帶回去啦說真的啦大家對室內靶場只是有個選址的問題你們有119個全國叫做室外的靶場不給我資料在外面打你任何一個室外靶場當你把它改成室內靶場都叫做優化旁邊的民眾不敢說鼓掌至少你把它改善了我聽不到槍聲砲聲那叫優化 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
1413.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
1432.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
你在桃園隆昌訓練場他是一個閒置我講荒廢國防部說不高興在我的眼前就已經荒廢30年閒置靶場完全沒有任何駐軍你突然要做一個這樣的一個靶場來你要看一下好說拜託這個待會帶回去了好 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
1433.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
1439.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
地方陳情先看中間那一點不分黨派了好不好不要說誰這個什麼我們誰這個在弄國軍號 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
1445.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
1473.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
藍綠五黨局的都有都來連署他們曾經的訴求也希望要拜託拜託你們這整個大計畫已經自己講不通了兩個都已經廢掉了那第三個在人口稠密區包括了在議會質詢包括了台灣市政府沒有接到任何的訊息現在民政局發文給軍方已經10天了也沒有任何回應我也不知道怎麼回事現在地方正在抗爭連署中 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
1474.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
1482.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
但是為何有這種必要呢是不是為反對而反對呢我們來看現在已經你們打XX的四級廢武宮的兩個營區他是現有駐軍 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
1487.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
1516.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
左邊是新店的東營區啊它就是現有的軍事營地啊現有軍事營地啊它旁邊都是一種工業區啊有很明顯的區隔帶嘛而且它現有營區嘛但是現在不做了第二個台南的新中營區啊它旁邊基本上都是農業區啊跟大型的農地的一個相關的工廠而且它就是我說的就是用現有營區現有的露天靶場那119座露天的靶場我把它來改 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
1517.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
1544.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
我覺得這個東西就蠻好的結果也是不行最後一個看一下現在是中壢在桃園中壢的龍崗綜合訓練場你看一下中間的圖其實我們是將心秉心如果全國就剩下這片土地我們吞也要吞下去可是我說真的這麼多露天靶場該有廢棄可能整個就算桃園也有廢棄20年 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
1546.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
1561.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
空地還在那裡的還軍事營區的有這樣的靶場所以我們覺得這三個靶場兩個在盤點的時候是完全不負責完全不精確所以在盤點才執行的時候他覺得哇這也有問題當時誰提報的 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
1564.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
1586.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
你但凡你去深入知道有計劃就不會訓練表示你在盤點在規劃你就是不負責任的所以包括了龍崗綜合訓練場他是一個廢棄園區旁邊是國民運動中心所以院長國民運動中心都是人口密集區啊他在這邊整個人口密集區中間要做一個室內靶場看左邊 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
1588.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
1601.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
零兩條路而已我覺得當時在選址的時候真的很離譜一條路龍昌路最窄市民我告訴你軍車你要跟民車那旁邊都住台區另外一條比較大的 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
1602.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
1626.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
最窄的地方8.5米 停的車剩6米所以我是在這裡是不是能夠拜託我們院長針對於兩個已經廢棄掉的跟這個我們希望人口密集區現在已經發包400多萬在那邊挖來挖去 弄來弄去那我是在這裡是不是也能夠會後 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
1628.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
1646.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
我會另外送我們地方的連署書也請我們的院長能夠跟國防部相關的單位去了解一下如果當時選舉選址是真的是不精確所以還沒開始就劃掉兩個這一個又在人口密集區 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
1647.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
1667.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
能不能回去來討論來重新研究考量好不好我請國防部就三個靶場以及改變的狀況改變的原因跟這個龍昌靶場他目前還進行規劃的需求詳細跟委員報告同時要兼顧地方的民情反應今天的結論就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
1668.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
1696.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
不要忘記我們國軍的報告說為什麼要做三座室內清兵地靶場開宗明義就是第一個減少民眾的成抗提升民眾的生活品質那就問第一個目標奇怪民眾就在成抗嘛我剛剛也給你看你回去也google旁邊是不是住宅區騙不了人如果旁邊是人口稠密區緊鄰的就是國民運動中心跟公園 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
1696.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
1723.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
大人小孩都在那裡我是覺得我所知道還有非常非常多更適合的我不是說不要做我們支持更適合荒廢的靶場優先來做所以我的建議是第一全面啊現在既然兩個已經停了不是我叫停了兩個都停你光弄這個人口密集區啊我講真的民眾的抗爭一定會不服氣啦所以希望能夠全面暫停目前的規劃跟地方溝通第二個 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
1724.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
1753.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
請拜託拜託國防部在這一次你可以再找三座請三座重新來去評估不要發聲國防部內部別人已經用了你還在去弄對於外面民眾的荒廢的營區要避開我們的人口稠密區所以我們希望能夠優先利用現有的室外靶場把它優化跟營區那最後一個是 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
1753.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
1781.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
避開人口稠密區啦還有交通平均市民你的軍車鑽過去的話我是覺得不要說車不車禍啦整個民眾的住宅區來來去去造成很多民怨這個部分好跟軍民一家我覺得目標也有一點違背這個部分我們真的希望能夠帶回去跟國防部能夠充分考量好不好我請國防部儘速的詳細跟委員做報告說明好謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
1784.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
1786.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
好 謝謝魯明哲委員的質詢謝謝卓院長備詢 謝謝 |