| IVOD_ID |
165538 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165538 |
| 日期 |
2025-11-18 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
院會-11-4-9 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期第9次會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
9 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
院會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期第9次會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-11-18T12:04:34+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-11-18T12:20:05+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:15:31 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/15ce70573aea8c15feaaa15f439f5b6902704d746941b037890588499a138a04ef73f5eace86becf5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
張雅琳 |
| 委員發言時間 |
12:04:34 - 12:20:05 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-11-18T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
第11屆第4會期第9次會議（事由：一、討論事項：本院民進黨黨團，針對第11屆第1會期第9次會議報告事項第33案委員丁學忠等19人擬具「公立學校教職員退休資遣撫卹條例第三十七條條文修正草案」院會所作之決定提出復議。是否有當？請公決案等16案。二、行政院院長、主計長、財政部部長、行政院公共工程委員會主任委員及相關部會首長列席報告「中央政府花蓮馬太鞍溪堰塞湖災後重建特別預算案」編製經過並備質詢（11月18日上午）。三、對行政院院長施政報告繼續質詢（11月18日下午）。四、11月14日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。） |
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謝謝主席 我們邀請行政院長麻煩再請總院長備詢張委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
22.501 |
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院長好 首先我想請教一個裁劃法的問題立法院115年的預算到現在已經11月18號我們還是無法在預算會期開始進行相關的審查程序 |
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42.225 |
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那在野黨藍白認為說已經啟動了財化法修法那行政院就應該要針對我們這115年的預算來進行重新編列但我想院長已經回覆非常多次也清楚了說明就是說這對國家的財政會有相當大的影響但是他們始終無法理解那我就想要請教一下院長就是說我們目前已經給了地方4165億 |
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67.518 |
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93.424 |
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為了這件事情中央都還要調整我們的預算結構明年的總預算都還要舉在2992億那我就想請問因為今天是馬太IC的一些相關的這個特別預算的一個報告如果按照這個藍白的修法明年如果我們又有這麼多因為台灣就是一個多災多難的島嶼那我們如果遇到這種天災我們明年還有辦法因應嗎我們還有空間嗎 |
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94.238 |
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112.723 |
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是謝謝委員雖然編特別預算會排除預算法種種內容的適用跟公債法也可以排除但是總之總之他是擴大了國家的財政的舉債這個是事實無論我們排除任何的法律他就是擴大那今年我們已經剛剛委員所說2992億如果再加上 |
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117.419 |
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133.707 |
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現在要我們恢復的這個計劃性補助2600多億表示我們要增加5600億的舉債已經違反明年度要編財發法的這個公債法的規定說我們是編不出來的況且拿掉4165億的統籌分稅款再把 |
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137.698 |
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158.992 |
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計劃型補助在全數的補助給地方再把一般型補助又不考慮到中央地方的這個全市權的劃分全部都給地方中央可做的事情就非常非常的有限明年再有任何的天災中央要有什麼能力去幫助地方像這次豬瘟也是台風也是 |
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159.954 |
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菸攝乎也是在我們還有像今年特別的是還有國際的這種談判明年如果任何的狀況來我們將沒有能力所以一直削弱中央的國庫一直把政府要把它攤換為主在這裡到底用意何在我想國人都應該想想清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
178.308 |
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對我想就是說因為我們之所以大家也可以看到我們這次在煙澀湖齁光這個疏散地方政府的疏散都出現了問題那整個非洲豬瘟在地方政府的一個管控之下也都出現了非常大的問題所以呢如果我們再持續去削弱我們中央政府的一個應變能力的話那其實對於百姓都不是一件好事我想我這樣子的結論院長應該是認同的對不對是 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
204.164 |
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219.88 |
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剛剛主席總署主席長又提出了馬太安溪我們所已經協助的金額已經有27億租溫也有36億那這個都是我們應急擠出來的那明年如果連這個能力都沒有那真的是叫天天不應呼叫地地不靈 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
220.837 |
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247.159 |
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對 那我也希望請全國民眾一起來思考如果未來如果再發生任何的災害我們讓中央無法有任何的應變能力的話全部回到地方的話那我覺得對全國人民來說都是一個很可怕的一件事情因為到現在我知道行政院已經跟我們很多的不管是各部會也好我們都已經跟地方的局處展開了非常非常密集的溝通跟討論都有討論有關於事權的部分要如何的去切割可是事實上 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
247.679 |
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274.261 |
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我也遇到了很多的局处地方的局处来告诉我他们特别担心这些钱都到了地方没有错但是会不会到教育会不会到各个相对应的局处大家都没有把握我也认为这应该是蓝白必须说清楚的对不对不然这些钱到底要用在哪里到底会用在孩子身上会不会用到他们所谓的房灾身上我们都一无所知 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
274.966 |
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297.294 |
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所以明年我們即使在我們願版的財發法的草案我們補助給地方的一般性的補助當中對於教育就是社福最基本設施我們會要求指定做到一樣的各縣市必須要有非常均衡的發展的前提底下該有的各縣市該有的就必須要做到我們也會在統籌分配稅管裡面要求這幾個重要的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
297.694 |
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322.684 |
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就是地方拿了這些錢至少每個縣市都有的都必須要做出來如果你有好的計劃我們也可以來補助甚至我們用一個公司來設算當過去的補助我們用設算的公司來做也都可以我們設置了有三層的補助的整個層次這個部分我們會在禮拜四的院會當中討論讓他定案院版的中央政府的財政收支劃分法希望大院能夠支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
323.325 |
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343.882 |
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好 我希望這樣子的一個修法才能夠去確保我們從中央拿走的預算可以回到相對應的部會特別是我特別關注的一個教育的預算不會讓最後明明都生長在台灣的孩子可是卻因為生長在不同的縣市而有了不同不平等的一個對待那接下來我也想要請教就是有關於中紀村的相關的規劃 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
345.475 |
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367.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
就是說今天呢 災民第一個時間的問題就是要面對他們到底要住在哪裡那雖然說國土署已經公告了有些住宅已經是無法居住了可是我們好像還沒有看到後續中紀村的一個具體的規劃內容包含說中紀村到底有沒有安全有沒有文化空間是不是會住很久 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
367.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
389.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
我想这都必须要让村民来清楚的了解目前国土署在特别预算里面编列了3亿200万来作为中期安置中纪屋的一个建设可是预算只有编到116年之后就没有再编列了所以我想请问一下我们所谓的中期安置到底是多久是一年两年还是甚至到五年呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
390.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
414.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
中基屋剛剛陳靜德主委講了很多的回應那其他部分還有跟內政部相關的請劉部長謝謝張委員的關心有關中基屋其實它就是一個短期的安置的措施那第一個我們會先針對那個重災戶的部分評估它現住的房子如果是不安全的狀況之下尤其是重災區的這幾戶我們當然會短期把它安置以一年到兩年為主 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
415.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
427.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
所以現在已經有41戶我們希望在年底的時候就可以提出來讓重災戶可以先入住所以中紀屋的概念是這樣子當然很多的居民跟鄉民他們有提到希望能夠離災不離鄉 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
431.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
451.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
那如果是離災不離鄉的話包括很多原住民部落的朋友我們會在定期跟他們溝通有共識之後我們再來看未來他們的安居住宅要怎麼處理會比較好好那我也是跟對這個問題上面來做一些請教就是說因為我們之前也有看過像是小林村遷村到這個山林大岸原區之後呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
452.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
466.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
這個中紀屋它自己後來就變成了宅區所以我也想要請教我們現在的中紀村這個位置有沒有做過完整的地質調查包含像是淹水的一個模式的模擬來確保他們是從危險的區域移植到安全的區域 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
467.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
492.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
是 先跟委員報告剛所提到41戶的部分目前是在台塘的這個園區裡面那裡面的大概已經建置完成而且沒有安全上面的疑慮那大部分的災民 申請的災民也都知道了沒有這方面的問題那未來就是要離災不離鄉的狀況之下我們會再根據尤其這兩次還有其他的堰塞湖的發生會根據他們的需求來做轉換那如果 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
493.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
508.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
需要变更包括都市计划或是简单的乡规计划的话我们会来协助那其实这方面的进度很多灾民都知道因为我们第一阶段已经是针对这个淹水过后的这些房子安不安全已经告诉他们所以他们大概也知道未来的计划 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
509.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
536.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
好 那我接下來想要請教關於他們實質影響生活的部分就是說對於許多的家庭來說孩子能不能不用轉校其實是一個非常直接也非常現實的需求那包含中繼村離原本的學校多遠要花多少時間通勤是不是會有校車那再來就是醫療的問題有許多都是高齡者那他們在目前的中繼村的規劃中有沒有所謂的衛生所分店 衛生室或者是有定期許診的安排 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
537.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
561.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
還是他們未來還是必須要長途奔波來看著第三個就是生活空間因為其實這邊是原住民部落他們生活中需要有這個寄宜空間家族聚落空間搬入中繼村之後這些空間是否會被保留還是會被消失我想請教就是針對我們剛剛講的這些生活上面息息相關的內容目前我們有沒有這些相關的規劃 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
563.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
590.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
報告委員我們是內政部負責的部分是這樣子中基一屋它如果蓋成之後其實就我了解因為他們並沒有離鄉所以小孩子的就學其實沒有太大的問題裡面就幾所學校大概也都知道但是你有提到如果小孩子需要有交通接送等等這些我們來評估需求我們會再跟鄉公所來決定是不是會有類似這樣子的一個shuttle bus這樣的服務 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
590.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
612.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
其他包括在衛生所的部分到目前為止我所知道他們覺得說目前在衛生方面的服務或是公共衛生的部分大概都有按照計劃進行導致我們內政部有一個部分就是說它原來的家屋如果它的污水下水道受到影響的話家屋後面的污水下水道需要重新評估我們也會協助 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
614.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
629.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
謝謝那再接下來就請教一下就是說因為剛剛有特別提到就是說其實我們還是需要跟我們的部落做非常非常充分的討論嘛因為大家的意見可能還是會有所落差那我想根據原住民基本法原住民基本法部落對於重大工程 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
630.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
645.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
建設有參與決策的權利也只有部落參與進來中紀村才能夠符合真正的離災不離村所以呢我想這件事情我們是不是會持續的來跟他們啟動相關的一個諮詢會議呢這是一個持續的動作嗎還是只有 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
646.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
666.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
前面的幾次我也先來回應一下我想我們現在陳金德政委他要主持的是由行政院交辦的各項功能分組我們也知道根據原基法的精神他們在部落裡面未來要做重建的話一定要經過部落上面相關的共識這些我們都會充分尊重 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
667.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
690.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
所以我們這個會議會一直持續定期的去開嗎因為過去的經驗是說可能居民一開始的想法是這樣中間又會有不同的想法所以他還是要持續的去做溝通跟討論確保我們的意見有收集到最及時所以我想要了解就是說我們這樣子的意見收集的模式它是一個持續固定的會議還是只有前面剛開始的這段時間有而已 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
691.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
721.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
我們這個在花蓮現在設計的這個設置前進的這個協調匯報協調匯報裡面這個原民會也在裡面原民會不會把這個部落族人的基本的權利給他忘了所以我們一定會在這樣的一個法律的精神底下會持續的跟原住民的族人一樣像現在中紀屋到底要不要蓋蓋在哪裡什麼時候也都是跟族人充分的討論那這個工作會持續進行下去 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
721.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
746.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
我也希望這個管道要持續的保持暢通接下來就第二個部分我想要聚焦在重建工程的部分目前其實我們重建的工程包含了治山治水家園及公共設施復原產業復蘇及社會重建環境富裕還有防災體系我們也可以非常清楚的看到就是說重建不是只是輕於不塗蓋房子而是做一個全面調查全面調整的一個系統工程 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
747.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
775.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
那針對於映色湖溢流之後呢最大的直接影響就是大量的土石它沿著馬太安溪宣洩而下那現在呢土砂的堆積量非常高包括了河道還有堤防邊坡還有農田與道路兩側呢都出現了後塵的一個淤積那衛星空拍也顯示了局部的河道甚至被推高還有像是河道的行水空間是否恢復也是非常重要的因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
776.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
785.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
如果行水空間不足到下一場梅雨下一場颱風河道可能就會再度溢流所以我想要了解就是說我們這次在水利所其實 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
786.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
812.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
水利署其實確實編列了河道疏峻的預算這個是非常重要的但是我們是否可以公布未來三個月六個月的一個清淤季度呢或者是說我們大概分幾個階段然後我們清多少的量那何時可以完成初步那下一個好雨前是否能夠達標我們是不是可以公布像這樣子的一個內容然後也可以簡單說明一下現在的進度 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
812.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
840.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
可以 我們現在本來就有這樣的規劃本來原來在年底之前要清出100萬方但是現在因為後來又有颱風的關係所以我們現在已經清出200多萬方了所以時程會加快到明年汛期之前就是明年4月之前我們會加清約到600萬方到明年底之前希望清出1000萬方出來我想階段性的我們會對外說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
842.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
861.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
這是可以公佈在我們相關的網站上面或什麼資訊讓我們的居民可以知道相關的進度還是一樣我想這些資料清楚了除了居民知道還有地方政府也必須要知道就是可以知道說什麼時候可以解除風險 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
862.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
887.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
避免突如其來的警報在未來發生同時這一次受災的光復地區還有好幾座跨溪的橋樑橋墩周面的土石都被沖刷堆積物過高變成橋樑的通紅斷面變小之類等等的問題未來都有可能產生新的風險像是在2024年南投廬山暴雨之後我們就曾經看到河床升高超過1公尺導致舊橋在下一次暴水中 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
888.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
909.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
所以馬太安溪的河床到底上升多少是否有上升我想這都需要工程的評量所以是否可以指示我們的水利署跟公路局針對我們相關橋樑再做一次完整的安全檢測是否需要補強然後是否需要做第二階段的橋樑補強工程是否可以報告委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
911.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
925.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
根據水利法的確是如果橋跟那個最高水位如果過境的話是需要做改建的所以相關的問題我們都會在這個特別預算或原來 |