| IVOD_ID |
165532 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165532 |
| 日期 |
2025-11-18 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
院會-11-4-9 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期第9次會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
9 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
院會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期第9次會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-11-18T11:00:49+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-11-18T11:16:29+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:15:40 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/15ce70573aea8c1509b4c6242a37914502704d746941b037c41b491b5b6fc7ad14d5e53a528fd4095ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe |
| 委員發言時間 |
11:00:49 - 11:16:29 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-11-18T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
第11屆第4會期第9次會議（事由：一、討論事項：本院民進黨黨團，針對第11屆第1會期第9次會議報告事項第33案委員丁學忠等19人擬具「公立學校教職員退休資遣撫卹條例第三十七條條文修正草案」院會所作之決定提出復議。是否有當？請公決案等16案。二、行政院院長、主計長、財政部部長、行政院公共工程委員會主任委員及相關部會首長列席報告「中央政府花蓮馬太鞍溪堰塞湖災後重建特別預算案」編製經過並備質詢（11月18日上午）。三、對行政院院長施政報告繼續質詢（11月18日下午）。四、11月14日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
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謝謝主席韓院長有請卓院長麻煩再請卓院長備詢吳委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
18.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
37.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
院長好 辛苦了院長我上次來這邊做丹拉斯特別條例預算質詢的時候有跟您提過就是我這幾年的心得就是極端氣候之下災害年年有但是特別條例並非年年有 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
38.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
59.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
我們公務預算所預備的這些災害準備金也不見得能夠去容納做好這些年年發生的災害案件今年很特別因為繼16年前的《莫拉克災後重建條例》之後今年有兩個災後的特別條例 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
60.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
75.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
除了上一次我們三讀通過的丹納斯及728特別條例這一次我們又有了這個所謂的馬太安煙色湖的災後特別條例我們來看一下像丹納斯特別條例它的預算規模是600億 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
77.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
98.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
它的範圍是苗栗西部以南一直到花東總共有12個縣市這一次的馬太安顏色湖的特別條例我們看到之前用災行法的時候它公告的就是馬太安它的比鄰的像是 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
101.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
124.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
萬榮鄉 光復鄉 還有鳳林鎮那我為什麼要特別這樣子講就是這個特別條例的第二條他其實有提到他說以行政院公布的災區為準所以我第一個問題想要請教一下院長就是這一次這個馬太安顏色湖的特別條例它的災區包括哪些地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
125.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
150.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
工程會來主管報告委員因為華家沙風災的時候工程會單獨開立這個受災的這個公共設施災損的需要的這個專案那除了花蓮之外各縣市如果因為華家沙颱風受損的會依照這個專案來來申請工程會來受理各部會來補助來來做協助那關於 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
152.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
174.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
驗社府的部分就是針對馬太安溪因為驗社府導致的災害所以特別條例只適用這個範圍那就包括三個鄉鎮就是光復還有鳳林還有萬種並不是其他的縣市或地區因為花家沙颱風不會受到關注不會的工程會另外有開立一個專案在處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
175.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
204.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
那所以意思就是說這個命名啊因為他就已經命名了嘛就是他叫做馬太安顏色湖的災後特別條例嘛花蓮馬太安溪那我就是想要請教我舉個例子我在這邊列舉一些案件同樣是花蓮同樣是光復萬榮復進的像我以秀林鄉來講那圖上應該有顯示像這個河人部落的野溪整治 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
205.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
232.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
跟上游的土砂威脅那個土勢我們可以看得很清楚其實在地居民都很緊張或譬如說崇德部落管制站上方邊坡那個很危險我現在念的都是還沒有處理好的還有我經常經常被族人問的就是富士十二林部落後方他的這個山坡都很不穩定他們需要一個很穩固的擋土牆 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
233.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
257.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
富士村的第10林有80戶200人他也是受到上方整個裂開然後危險的一個威脅又或者說在秀林道拉斯部落野溪整治他們都告訴我說非常迫切因為旁邊有很多住戶或者是說像那個三戰村三戰部落他那個土石堆積很高因為我前天才去 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
258.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
283.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
那個地方匯流他們也很緊張又或者說像景美村、嘉灣部落、嘉明村他們長年的淹水的問題因為台鐵每次到那邊就會淹水又或者說榕樹部落它的邊坡滑動我也親自去看過那個去年0403地震之後前年就非常的可怕到現在都還沒有處理好那請教一下那這些要怎麼辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
283.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
286.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
那邊坡的部分有的是屬於園民會的有的是屬於農業部的 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
300.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
324.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
但是你剛才所提到的河仁、崇德這一帶因為容易崩塌嘛會影響到公路跟鐵路的運作我剛剛唸的大概也都是有兩年三年了那個交通部跟公路局跟鐵道局還有農業部他們都經常性的編列相關預算在該部會裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
325.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
350.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
我特別念出來就是因為沒有被處理好沒有被處理過我繼續講萬榮旁邊的濁西好了像濁西他們也都很關於秀姑蘭溪橋還有太平村他們也需要一個新建的橋樑這個都是前幾年的災害或者是說他們的花六八線花七三線的道路又或者說像濁西 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
351.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
381.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
你看這是前年他的那個大牌到現在也沒有改善好很多的案件我之所以特別念出來像濁溪堤防你看他已經跟路面一樣高了秀蘭橋的興建也是一直說到現在也沒有山里豐平野溪疏峻塞谷農路復建其實我會這樣子講的原因是民怨很高因為他要去他的農耕用地 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
381.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
394.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
這裡面有的是縣道有的是鄉道然後是縣管河川現在我就是要談這個部分因為他們都會報災那您也知道都有系統的一個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
395.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
414.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
那麼有一些案件就是永遠排不到這個就是我講的如果因為風災所引起的那每一次風災工程會都會開立專案給地方政府包括縣市政府跟鄉鎮公所都可以提出來包括公共設施都有提有時候就是沒有被系統納入 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
415.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
432.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
如果有核定應該都會執行就是比方說屬於他的相關部會他們沒有被核定連被納入都沒有那可能不會光是我講丹納斯的我不好意思講出來我也在這個地方質詢過依舊沒有被系統納入 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
434.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
451.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
但那是風災因為剛才提了涵蓋幾乎一半以上的縣市其實我只是要表達其實我們這樣子全國原鄉跑我們看到的案子太多有時候像我做了將近要6年 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
452.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
474.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
六年 五年 四年 三年 兩年很多的案子永遠都排不到也不知道為什麼但是族人不明白那我要說的是以我們這次的萬榮鄉民力村為例那我們也會在想說到底很多的案子它的優先機制到底是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
475.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
491.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
像這個923那一天其實村長跟地方的族人就有跟我們陳情喔我也在隔天很快速的有發函給我們的水利署具體的訴求喔說未來加高堤防 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
491.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
509.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
因為河床已經抬高二他說可不可以臨時趕快加太空包防汛塊等措施你看族人他要求的具體非常訴求很清楚但是我要講的是水利署也很認真 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
510.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
533.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
立刻在9月26號有發文給九合分署公文副本給我訴求就是按照我的訴求非常明確但是可能公文就存查了後來48天之後發生這樣的事情我們很難交代族人我們很難交代族人所以像這樣的案子 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
534.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
553.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
我們極端氣候下我們不知道哪一天哪一個地點會發生什麼樣的事情我們不知道就像這次的煙色湖我們不曉得說會造成光復鄉這麼嚴重的災情然後也不知道11月怎麼會來一個颱風又造成名利村這樣的災情 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
554.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
580.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
那我怎麼知道12月會不會來一場大雨1月會不會來一場大雨現在沒有被淹到的高處的這些住戶下一次會不會被淹到都不知道但是我們只知道人家告訴我們我們就要趕快有動作那我其實是想了解說這樣的一個機制我不太了解所以未來案件處理的優先順序認定標準 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
582.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
597.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
我跟委員報告兩件事情過去中央管中央管河川縣市管縣市管河川那剛剛你提的很多例子當中有很多是縣市管河川但是我們認為這樣也不可以解決問題無法解決問題所以我們明年開始 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
598.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
627.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
四年變了一千億就是要協助縣市館河川去改善他的工程但是我們會逐年把該做的部分做進來那至於您說的有可能有一些建議案或許現在還沒有辦法納進來第一年但是會不會努力在第二年第三年那你現在委員要知道的是這個優先順序排列的選擇方式到底怎麼樣是不是經濟部跟水利署的標準來好來部長請對因為中央館我們當然會按照 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
629.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
653.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
這個河川的優先順序緊急急迫來做因為縣市館河川基本上我們是用編預算來補助地方政府來施作的所以優先順序事實上地方政府他會提供他比較重要的一些依據給我們來做一些參考當然像委員這樣子我們也會跟地方政府來做溝通的確有這樣的需求希望把這個東西編進來 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
655.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
681.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
其實我要說就是那個圖也許可以秀出來我們看那些衛星圖非常多的地方的部落它已經是緊鄰河岸因為這些年來坑溝變野溪野溪變河川雖然上游是林保署下來是水保署再下來是水利署但是看起來那個河道其實都一樣的寬 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
682.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
703.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
就像我們當年不知道氣象說玉穗溪25毫里的這樣的雨量怎麼會釀成山洪爆發衝斷整個明霸克路橋不知道這個就是極端氣候那我只是說當我們知道現在極端氣候之下我們不能夠不理會在地人的擔憂 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
704.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
723.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
很多地方河床跟部落都騎高那我舉個例子像我們在地人很直觀的想法看到那個砂石車每天傾書傾書他們都問我們說可不可以把那些砂石去堆到我被流失的土地再築一道堤防來保護 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
725.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
746.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
但是我們這樣的訴求我們很難告訴他們說我們的七一計劃法又或者是我們的土石採取法又或者是我們的營建剩餘土石方處理方法這些等等的法令我們很難告訴他們但是他們只知道說為什麼政府要一直傾書一直傾書一直傾書當然我們可以理解 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
747.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
765.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
可是我覺得老百姓的聲音也要被接納所以我剛剛聽到院長您這樣說我很高興就是有編列更多的經費多給林保署多給水保署讓他們聽到族人的要求的時候竹堤房 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
765.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
779.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
主戶案做親書讓他們能夠也有足夠的經費來做那我是很高興但是還有一些方法要處理的就是老百姓對於親書的這些想法有沒有可能被採納 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
781.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
806.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
那要考慮到工程上安全的問題他必須把堤防做起來兩邊做堤防這要有工程的計畫如果只是把土往旁邊堆那很危險大雨再下來水再下來他一樣造成不可預知的一些狀況所以剛剛您說的我們就是要地方政府你要提出計畫來我們用4年1000億的改善縣市館河川的工程來補助地方政府但這個經濟部水利署 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
807.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
833.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
會監督要求地方政府要落實到整個工程的期限跟品質就是要嚴格監督啦因為我們不是議員啦也不是地方的代表啦我們就是只能夠站在這個地方希望我們的中央能夠透過法令或者是透過公文能夠去監督要求這些我們講出來的東西啦可以啦可以啦委員你認為哪個地方有需要你也可以跟我們反映我們可以跟地方政府來做協調 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
834.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
860.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
現在名利村的族人當然他們會想說他們到底有沒有被納入到這次的這個馬太安煙色湖因為他們看到光復有一些未鑄金的部分他們還沒有等到啊他們說那既然我們都是屬於馬太安煙色湖的災後重建特別條例是不是所有的一些包括未鑄的部分都一樣嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
861.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
884.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
是 我剛剛在報告裡面也提到了現在鳳凰颱風導致的鳳林萬隆等地在本條例災區範圍所致這個災損我們都把它納進來了所以完全比照光復鄉明麗村這個部分是有那我想聽一聽就是像他們那些八戶不曉得會有什麼樣的因為他們要重建嘛他們會有什麼樣的福利 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
885.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
914.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
應該不能講福利啦 對不起我口誤報告委員 這個就是比照燕射湖災害的光復鄉那時候處理的情形未租金的部分每戶有35萬那如果有汽車報費是補助5萬 機車報費補助1萬那還有其他當然相關部會都有一些租金補貼或者是利息補貼等等都有那最重要的一筆未租金就是行政院的10萬加沒有門牌號怎麼辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
915.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
940.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
我們看個案來看有實際居住他們當然實際居住有水電證明就是實際居住跟因為我們原住民住的房子絕對不是我們一般人所想像的那個對他來講就是他每天生活的房子好 謝謝吳立華委員的資訊 |