| IVOD_ID |
165531 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165531 |
| 日期 |
2025-11-18 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
院會-11-4-9 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期第9次會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
9 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
院會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期第9次會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-11-18T10:29:36+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-11-18T10:45:28+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:15:52 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/15ce70573aea8c159737cf667f67b2f602704d746941b037f3e180e0dcccc9c6f6fa5687ff727cf65ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
陳瑩 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:29:36 - 10:45:28 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-11-18T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
第11屆第4會期第9次會議（事由：一、討論事項：本院民進黨黨團，針對第11屆第1會期第9次會議報告事項第33案委員丁學忠等19人擬具「公立學校教職員退休資遣撫卹條例第三十七條條文修正草案」院會所作之決定提出復議。是否有當？請公決案等16案。二、行政院院長、主計長、財政部部長、行政院公共工程委員會主任委員及相關部會首長列席報告「中央政府花蓮馬太鞍溪堰塞湖災後重建特別預算案」編製經過並備質詢（11月18日上午）。三、對行政院院長施政報告繼續質詢（11月18日下午）。四、11月14日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。） |
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950.51534375 |
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953.18159375 |
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謝謝主席 我們麻煩請行政院長以及農業部麻煩再請卓院長 農業部長備詢然後後續接下來的問題再請環境部跟經濟部準備好環境部 經濟部請準備陳委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
40.993 |
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院長好 次長好大家辛苦了我想對於這個馬太溪顏色湖的這樣子的一個災難我想我們大家都非常的心疼災區的災民 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
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也對於所有參與救災的志工們還有所有的我們工部門的所有的同仁表示最大的敬意那我想有幾個問題來救教你們在這一次的特別條例裡面呢農業部編列了43億元那其中我有到現場 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
87.364 |
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到花蓮的災區有去看其實在整個大面積的農田是被大量的垃圾跟沙土都給淹沒了清起來看起來好像是耗大的工程非常的耗大我想先請教一下次長就是在盤點之後有多少的農田面積 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
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是被這些殺土垃圾被覆蓋住了是 非常感謝委員關心目前我們所做的這個估算被這些土砂淹沒的這些農田總共堆積土砂有達到600萬立方米 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
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600萬立方民那你們現在就是目前大概有已經有定案要怎麼處理了嗎還是說現在還討論中是我們已經分為短中長期短期的話我們對於這些被土砂淹沒的農田短期我們會給他這些農作物的這些天然災害受損的這個救助金第二個我們會給他這些農業方面的 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
164.672 |
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190.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
他的設備還有機器相關的這個補助那個次長不好意思我想請教的就是說對於剛剛您講的這個六百萬立方米六百萬公噸的這些沙土還有垃圾你們要怎麼處理要把它移走還是要就地就擱置看用什麼樣的方案去處理是我們現在是這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
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有我們調查了之後有528公頃那個是一般受災的他的這個土的掩蓋是在50大概只有幾公分50公分50公分以下的這個我們可以把它就是直接來翻耕還有這個土壤改良機他馬上就可以在那邊這個就說那些沙土的這些土質是適合的嘛對對那另外有246公頃他是被淹沒淹沒到最高達到 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
221.906 |
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240.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
6.5公尺那麼高我們已經跟農民開過五次的座談會有300多人參加那聽他們的意見他們有的希望說能夠再做農地重劃有的說是不是以後就照林等等那目前我們會按照民意來作為下一步的這個所以現在是還在討論當中沒有最後的定案嗎對 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
242.134 |
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257.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
因為就本席的了解在這整個過程當中當然有幾個處理的方案但因為它現在大家看起來目前都還沒有最後的共識也還沒有最後的定案大概已經慢慢的形成 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
257.945 |
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278.322 |
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有一些是他希望能夠再復耕有一些是希望能夠說他認為說已經煙那麼高的話即使要復耕都還很困難所以他們希望現在這個問題本期是比較擔心因為有種種的可能就是說從剛剛您講的就是說就地的處理因為那個量真的很大 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
280.564 |
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300.067 |
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另外有些人他希望能够复耕但复耕是要按照他原来的样貌去复耕还是说他可以去转作的复耕那还有一种是还有一种声音就是说希望把那边所有的这些杀土全部都移走 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
301.709 |
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328.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
我在這邊想要提出來的就是說因為現在都是有種種的可能那你也有可能去架構或者說要本席本來也想就是說建議說是不是有可能用換地的方式那既然還沒有定案我覺得在後續接續的討論大家可能都還有一些空間可以去談但是我要提出來就是說也先請教就是說這麼多萬一 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
330.988 |
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356.148 |
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有人堅持就說我們600萬公噸的這些沙土我們全部都要移走的話要請教就是說你們有沒有評估過要做這樣的事情我們大概要花多少經費事實上架構我們是有編列因為要移除的話那個是很大的工程第一個氣質的地方第二個就是它那一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
356.946 |
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384.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
除了棄置之外他那一些有一些根本沒有辦法再恢復但是這樣你這樣移走的經費你們應該有估過多少錢吧所以當時架構的話我們目前是編7.9億我是說那個沙土移走的部分跟當地的這些居民或者是地主跟他們談的結果絕大部分因為在50公里以下那個就是自動可以把它就是把它耕了之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
385.683 |
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404.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
還可以作為這個培養土那我們會給他輔導跟給他這個土壤改良劑等等我想那個次長一直都避開我的問題沒有直接回答 因為我想我今天是我一直這樣 他說600萬立方宮的這個土啊500多萬他可以在當地做復耕對 對246公頃那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
407.541 |
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424.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
另外有一些已經到達6公尺高的那可能跟地主談一下或許就留置在那個地方而不是把他遷走 把他移走但留置在那個地方地主希望是怎麼樣是要提出各種的需求我們現在正在做所以我們的前進我們現在設的這個協調匯報處理的就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
428.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
458.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
東部地區的整個國土的規劃重點在於它的農田的富裕再生的未來怎麼跟地方談到大家都能夠接受目前都是在討論的階段因為很多的討論或者有一些的規劃進到立法院的時候常會有一些變數本席只是在擔心有一種變數就是萬一到最後又有人堅持說要全部移走的時候所以我才說請你們去試算 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
458.51 |
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476.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
因為我有先去跟有去稍微研究了一下大概因為這個挪走的這個經費是不是聽說有大概要三四十億左右全部挪走的話大概要耗費三四十億左右 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
478.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
501.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
有這樣估算過吧市長說的 不會全部都必須要移走有些可以留在現場我們說如何的富裕讓他再生其他有一部分比較高的部分是要怎麼處理現在還在談如果真的要把地再恢復過來那就必須移走移走的工程非常大因為我講的是說因為要你們去估算是這樣三四十億的這個費用 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
504.031 |
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532.876 |
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就是影響的大概有300出頭左右300位左右的這個農民啦那我是說那三四十億大家搬搬的也差不多一千一千多萬啊那這個其實就分一分就省事啦但是真的能這樣嗎也不一定因為後續可能還有到時候土地重劃之後農地重劃之後還會有一些費用的不同所以這個部分我想我只是點出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
533.536 |
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549.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
我們請農業部跟地主或是部落的族人談一談未來該怎麼做他們現在也在進行這個工作是不是可以容許我報告委員一下因為其實如果受到這些土砂埋沒的這一些不管它埋沒的多深或者是 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
549.963 |
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569.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
一二十公分我們去看了之後其實我們已經把界限劃出來而且讓他們來申請每一公頃我們會給他十萬來恢復恢復他本來就可以耕種的另外因為你們有這個休耕的專案那休耕但是我這樣換算這個時間所以你們那個休耕大概要休多久 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
569.807 |
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596.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
因為這個還牽扯到因為我看你們還有編列這個農機具的這個補助那因為現在大部分那個地方可能種我看了一下種稻米 種大豆黑豆的這個比例比較高那你要再補助這個農機具他們可能種的東西都不太一樣現在被淹沒的地區我們是首先鼓勵他們種雜糧因為那邊我們如果在翻土之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
597.554 |
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623.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
他必須要有牛踏騰的行程之後才能夠種水稻所以一開始幾年我們會輔導他來種栽量那這一些其實我們每一期一年兩期做一期給他四萬四一年給每一位還在休耕當中給他八萬八那另外他的貸款我們利息也會補貼給他那最重要就是希望能夠他盡快能夠來復耕復耕之後其實他的收益會比休耕還好 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
624.198 |
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630.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
所以你們這樣評估時間需要多久這個條例必須要在116年兩期的話因為這個計畫可以到119那事實上我們很希望兩年內全部都幫他們輔導來修讀 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
641.542 |
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657.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
對現在這個特別預算好 謝謝 次長請回座另外我想要再請教的就是有關於在環境部請環境部備詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
659.076 |
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670.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
在補助地方政府辦理沙土混雜廢棄物的區劃分類的部分還有經濟部麻煩請經濟部長備詢請一起上來我想要請教就是說在補助 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
683.374 |
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703.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
我們在這次的風災有相當大量的垃圾跟沙土是夾雜混合的你們目前都堆置放在哪裡量多少目前是堆在第三站置區所以一般的垃圾靠糖廠嗎對 用糖廠的地 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
704.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
722.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
好 那目前看起來就是說那個陽城會引起那個陽城也非常大嘛所以現在上面有去覆蓋這個防水布就是沒有下雨的時候它可以防這個陽城好 那我再請教一下就是說接下來的你們的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
725.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
751.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
這個沙土混雜廢棄物的這個分類跟去化的這個處理你們是要就是說補助就是地方政府自行去採購這個篩分機器去處理還是說委託你們去就是委外處理業者來辦理目前編列的是補助花蓮縣政府去委外招商來做這個篩分分選跟再利用 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
752.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
770.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
好所以就是也是直接都到地方去處理那現在有一個有一個問題就是在我其實也花相當多的時間在災區那我有觀察到一件事情就是說因為它這個你們在分類 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
771.307 |
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796.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
之後呢有大量的這個砂土的部分這邊可能要請教一下就是說這個砂土的部分也是要洗過之後那就是砂石的部分那我現在了解到的部分是我們的這個在花蓮喔砂石廠其實因為這次的風災已經全部都毀損掉了我不知道部長有沒有掌握這個狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
798.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
817.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
光復附近的部分沙石場還有其他部分像玉里其他部分還有報告委員就是說如果是疏菌的部分就是從河川裡面挖出來的部分我們當然是暫時在有些是作為提防使用有些是暫時在台塘的土地上 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
818.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
847.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
那最終還是要去化那現在看到的齁整個即便剛剛委員提到的就是有一些已經那個砂石廠損毀但是還有的部分目前這量有多少對一年的處理量最多最多可能是150萬方而已那我們現在要清出來的齁輸進出來可能到2026年底的時候可能會清出1000萬方出來所以一定量能是不夠的所以我們還是要想辦法還是要去化 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
848.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
859.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
這個去化因為運輸的問題有成本上的問題我們現在正在考量說怎麼樣讓它比較順暢的去化到台灣其他的地方去 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
860.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
888.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
所以這個部分就是說基本上目前花蓮本身量能沒有辦法快速的處理這些沙土所以一定要請外縣市的一起來協助所以這個部分大概你們的處理方向大概是這個樣子所以有預估大概多久我們現在正在討論說怎麼樣處理方式比較好但是先前段的話還是請這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
890.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
917.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
花蓮在地的沙子廠來幫助但是顯然是量能是不足的好 這樣了解所以你們可能量能不足的部分你們還要趕快想辦法看是不是外縣市一起來處理最後我再請教一下院長在丹納斯重建條例的時候我跟莊惠雄委員有提一個附帶決議就是洋流颱風造成的損害也準用丹納斯重建條例來處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
918.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
944.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
那我们台东在那一次洋流台风的这个灾害其实有很多的这个水利灌溉设施是毁损需要处理的那这个部分是不是在经费上呢所有受影响的这些经费上是不是也准用这个丹娜斯重建条例的经费可以去涵盖是如果因为风灾造成而且在灾区里面的我们就用特别条例特别预算来处理否则未来属于重 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
950.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
952.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
好抱怨会谢谢陈英伟谢谢 |