| IVOD_ID |
165528 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165528 |
| 日期 |
2025-11-17 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-4-26-11 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
11 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
26 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
社會福利及衛生環境委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-11-17T13:37:43+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-11-17T13:52:18+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:14:35 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/ff1e125e807f56ab745547e2c9cb953dbfb6dfa65ed0fc1d3a9647aa96f21cfc3afc8281b51035285ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
楊曜 |
| 委員發言時間 |
13:37:43 - 13:52:18 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-11-17T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查
(一)委員黃健豪等16人、委員陳超明等16人、委員蘇清泉等17人、委員呂玉玲等16人及委員柯志恩等16人擬具「勞工保險條例第六十三條條文修正草案」案。
(二)委員陳瑩等19人擬具「勞工保險條例第五十八條條文修正草案」案。
(三)委員許宇甄等19人、委員林國成等32人、委員王育敏等20人、委員蔡其昌等19人、委員羅廷瑋等16人、委員蔡易餘等18人、委員王美惠等17人、委員徐欣瑩等22人、委員翁曉玲等19人、委員楊曜等25人及委員王鴻薇等22人擬具「勞工保險條例第六十六條及第六十九條條文修正草案」案。
(四)委員邱鎮軍等19人擬具「勞工保險條例第三十一條條文修正草案」案。
(五)委員李昆澤等25人及委員賴瑞隆等17人擬具「勞工保險條例第六十九條條文修正草案」案。
(六)委員廖先翔等18人擬具「勞工保險條例第十九條條文修正草案」案。
(七)委員葉元之等21人、委員何欣純等17人及委員陳超明等16人擬具「勞工保險條例第五十八條條文修正草案」案。
(八)委員陳秀寳等21人擬具「勞工保險條例部分條文修正草案」案。
(九)委員王鴻薇等17人擬具「勞工保險條例第七十四條之二條文修正草案」案。
(十)委員林倩綺等32人及委員傅崐萁等19人擬具「勞工保險條例第五十九條條文修正草案」案。
(十一)委員陳瑩等19人擬具「勞工保險條例第六條條文修正草案」案。
(十二)委員李昆澤等19人擬具「勞工保險條例第二十九條條文修正草案」案。
二、審查
(一)委員陳玉珍等18人擬具「就業服務法第二十四條及第二十七條條文修正草案」案。
(二)委員涂權吉等17人擬具「就業服務法第二十四條條文修正草案」案。
(三)委員許宇甄等18人擬具「就業服務法第二十四條條文修正草案」案。
(四)委員翁曉玲等22人擬具「就業服務法第二十四條條文修正草案」案。
(五)委員蘇清泉等18人擬具「就業服務法第二十四條條文修正草案」案。
(六)委員廖偉翔等16人擬具「就業服務法第二十四條條文修正草案」案。
(七)委員洪孟楷等16人擬具「就業服務法第二十四條條文修正草案」案。
(八)台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「就業服務法第二十四條條文修正草案」案。
(九)委員柯志恩等18人擬具「就業服務法第二十四條條文修正草案」案。
(十)委員王育敏等17人擬具「就業服務法第二十四條、第二十七條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。
(十一)委員楊瓊瓔等27人擬具「就業服務法第二十四條條文修正草案」案。
(十二)委員郭國文等19人擬具「就業服務法第二十四條及第二十六條之一條文修正草案」案。
【綜合詢答，僅詢答】） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
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好 謝謝主席 請一下洪部長請洪部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
15.509 |
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37.476 |
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不然我們今天委員會就是審議勞保條例跟就業服務法的修正草案的大體詢答那我看是這樣子就是在勞保條例的修正當中不分黨派的委員大概就 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
38.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
60.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
政府撥補成為勞保基金的財源跟勞保的財務由政府負擔最終給負責任是大家很有共識比較遺憾的是各政黨的委員有共識可是看起來是行政立法沒有共識 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
62.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
90.488 |
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我從上一個會期就要求勞動部必須要救這兩個相關的規定提出版本可是我看你們也不提啊我們很願意在審議的時候我們一起來討論部長你知道審議的時候支持跟提版本的差異嗎是你說說看 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
92.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
118.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
呃 當然呃不像我們其實對這個事件的聲音我們還是是很開放的意見啊開放喔欸 民進黨長期都講說欸 國家在 勞保不會倒可是卻不願意讓它入法安定 安定全國勞工的我們沒有不願意 我們是同意的喔 那你們假如同意就是行政怠惰啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
120.793 |
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146.579 |
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你們假如同意就是行政怠惰我在上一個會期就跟部長要求過兩次希望執政團隊可以表態勞保是超過一千萬人口啊等於台灣兩個人就有一個人是投勞保的那執政團隊連 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
151.084 |
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174.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
讓最終己負責任入法都不願意我們是願意的那我就說只要願意就是行政怠惰嘛我們是很清楚我們是我們其實現在在這部分這本來就是我們的政治部長我就說自題版本是一種表態審議的時候贊成是一種附和 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
177.335 |
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201.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
特別是以行政機關來講委員之間有的時候在審議的時候表示贊同是因為委員要負責看的法案太多所以我沒有注意到這一塊那某一個委員提出了 我表示贊同那你們對於自己主管的業務的法律 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
203.902 |
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221.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
一方面表示贊同一方面覺得應該做另外一方面不提版本不提版本就是到時候通過的條文就是委員版本並不是民進黨執政的行政院勞動部提的版本 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
222.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
247.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
我這樣講有沒有道理跟委員說我們在審議的時候我想我們會對版本的內容包括是文字上面我們會提出我們很明確的意見文字上面我還真的不知道你能就這幾個字我不知道你能怎麼你是不是可以把給付責任改成支付責任還是怎麼樣要不然大的概念大的概念你已經放棄了 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
248.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
266.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
你難道要到委員會來就很細的文字問題來做溝通這個你覺得是勞動部應該要做的我不是說文字不能修正我只是說文字的修正是知為末節的東西 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
269.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
278.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
站在主管全國勞工權益 保障權益勞工政策的勞動部 這個沒有版本本席對於執政黨非常的失望因為我已經上一屆不談 這一屆包括部長來接部長以後 我大概就提醒了三次 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
293.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
320.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
因為這個是草野大家不要說草野委員這個是全國人民共同的期盼為什麼呢因為我們的經濟奇蹟來自勞工的努力可是國家因為勞保的設計讓退休的勞工的生活一直處在很不安定性的一個狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
322.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
348.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
執政團隊連做這樣子的宣示都不願意我其實還蠻絕望的 部長我說真的特別是這個會期 已經那麼多委員的版本進來了你們不願意 那你們覺得說討論法案的時候 只要你們有參與意見只要你們表示贊同 就是你們的立場那要這個行政團隊幹嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
352.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
381.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
不然我這樣說有沒有道理還是你還是覺得說可以沒有版本然後作為主管機關的勞動部對於這麼重要的一個法案可以沒有版本然後就討論的時候就說 欸 贊同楊耀委員的提案跟委員說明 其實在 因為這個議題跟這個議案其實也涉及到很多在行政院裡面很多的單位 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
382.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
411.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
尤其也是涉及到包括財主單位那 喔 喔 部長你是勞動部的部長那勞工保險條例由 由衛王委員會審議所以你就提你的版本就可以了至於後續的後續的行政團隊之間要法案過了並不是你不提版本法案就不過啊民進黨是少數黨啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
412.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
428.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
不一定有跟條文有什麼意思委員我們對於條文是有想法的然後我們也贊成這個概念有想法沒有做法我們有想法的然後我們也有相關的其實我們在這裡面的評估的眼裡那我們在審議的時候我們會很清楚表達我們的看法還是你現在要表達看法嗎你現在想想看反正後面也沒有委員啦我耽誤耽誤稍微一點時間沒關係啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
439.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
464.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
你現在講講看委員在大的方向上當然我們是同意包括撥補的入法包括最終責任這幾個入法的那裡面當然也會當然我們認為其實應該要對檢討的時間點那檢討的時間區段那我們也會有一些看法所以那你們為什麼不提版本呢我這樣子講啦齁保定政府撥補其實是 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
468.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
496.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
各黨派的委員在幫你們做後續的補救因為你們已經坐在前面了只是把他入法由政府負擔最終己負責任也是民進黨政府先喊出國家債勞保不會倒我不知道你們為什麼這樣子的法案推不出來啊我覺得太不負責任了 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
498.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
508.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
我們並不是不負責任 我們很願意在這個事情上面負起對勞保該負的責任我想行政團隊態度是清楚的我在這裡14年了我不清楚啊我對你們的態度我還真的不清楚啊我連要求你們提個版本你們都提不出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
526.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
555.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
部長你有沒有知道這個應用是什麼這個影響就是到最後是跨黨派的委員照顧體現了照顧全國勞工的決心可是執政團隊對這件事情並不在意我們沒有不在意不是不是你們在意我們如果不在意我們會逐年的都去跟行政院爭取越來越多的撥補的金額這當然就是我們非常在意這件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
556.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
584.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
我現在在跟你討論法案我是說你一直在撥補嘛所以我們提案讓你的撥補有更明確的法源嘛你自己倒是不願意懂我的意思嗎不是啊我不知道你搖頭的意思是什麼啦不過呢就是從具體的事項來看 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
585.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
609.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
你們就是不願意啦你們只要願意 我不相信這樣這麼簡單的條文你們擬不出來而且不是 不是說很短的時間要你們擬出來普通話其實真的喔 欸 是覺得還蠻 還蠻失望的啦就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
611.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
631.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
民進黨在國會弱勢已經一年多了你們難道沒有想到說你們縱使沒有版本也會有跨黨派的不要說在野黨的委員像我執政黨的委員我也要提出來啊為什麼 因為每天都在討論勞保什麼時候要倒嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
633.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
640.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
最少最終 最終己負責任必須要入法 這個是最簡單這個是簡單 再簡單不過的事情嘛這樣說不出來啊我還是要提醒藉由一個最新的民調來提醒部長啊就是說普發現金啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
658.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
679.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
行政院把超徵的稅款拿來普發現金啦台灣的民意調查37%的人認為是立法院給的只有22%覺得是行政院給的部長 很多東西不是說我們自己想自己對就是結論啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
690.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
711.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
我不知道這樣說下去會太久沒 我也問一下好了啦幹嘛拖到時間啊我們在剛才講的普發現金的國安任性特別條例的特別預算裡面有5400多億 勞保基金的撥補只有100億啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
713.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
726.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
部長在分配這個超徵收稅款的時候我就有要求部長必須要去大力爭取結果你爭取不到2%其實我們是在公務預算有爭取了1200不是1200不夠嘛不是說你清二萬落去勞保就一刀永逸嘛不是嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
740.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
765.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
那為什麼有多出來的稅收你沒有能力去跟行政院講要多撥一點好 那你們不撥 你們就自己想說我做一個大膽的假設啦假如說一開始行政院就把這五千多億全部撥補勞保跟健保啊在野黨不敢反對啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
766.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
795.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
我剛剛講過了 健保是全民共享啊老保 台灣兩個人裡面就有一個是老保人口可是你們不做這樣子的處理然後繞了一大圈還是按照在野黨的想法普發現金沒關係沒關係 要結束了這個 我還是提醒部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
797.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
819.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
在國會沒有過半是已經一年半的事情了所以很多政策在推動就是必須要合法、合理、合情為什麼我說特別預算假如撥給勞保大家不會有意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
823.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
849.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
因為第一個原因是因為稅收本身就是財富的重新分配分配給比較弱勢的勞工沒有人敢反對第二個就是經濟好才會稅收多稅收多才會有多餘的稅金可以分配 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
852.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
871.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
經濟的創造者是勞工就這兩個這麼簡單的理由那你們還一直活在全面執政的時代裡面我有很多事情我也沒有辦法謝謝部長 謝謝謝謝楊耀委員發言 |