| IVOD_ID |
165509 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165509 |
| 日期 |
2025-11-17 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-4-36-8 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期司法及法制委員會第8次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
8 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
36 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
司法及法制委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期司法及法制委員會第8次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-11-17T10:56:48+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-11-17T11:06:56+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:10:08 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/ff1e125e807f56ab85e4bb45b1103699c344f506729c478c80df8a4d5e0e61e306ddca98182fb2df5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
王義川 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:56:48 - 11:06:56 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-11-17T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期司法及法制委員會第8次全體委員會議（事由：邀請法務部部長、法務部調查局局長、經濟部部長、財政部部長、交通部部長、行政院公共工程委員會主任委員、環境部、法務部廉政署、台灣中油股份有限公司董事長、台灣電力股份有限公司董事長等就「中油三接浮報工程款爭議及近年來國營事業貪瀆案件查處成效」進行專題報告，並備質詢。） |
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謝謝主席 我們現在請工程會請工程會副主委還有中油公司中油董事長還有經濟部 謝謝經濟部次長好 謝謝為什麼不請法務部長跟調查局長因為個案裡面也不能講 上來也是浪費時間好不好 好 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
40.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
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一個我看這個經濟部啊針對今天的報告啊你們報告裡頭說中友這個採購案啊在你們看來啊都符合程序嘛對不對目前你的了解是這樣就是說這個中友給你的報告你看完你覺得是符合程序的就這麼簡單沒有任何你們覺得很怪的事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
65.985 |
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78.192 |
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我們就從行政程序上面我們去了解一下這個案子有沒有跟採購法的這個程序有沒有相違接下來我們請這個工程會這個站在工程會的角度啊這個案子不管這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
88.739 |
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107.435 |
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幾期的工程啊這個媒體多所報導那裡面也寫說站在什麼專家的角度看起來好像也不太對什麼先叫廠商報價然後再公告再進行這一個評選 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
111.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
134.532 |
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我們一個工程在進行的時候要多少錢才能做完的這件事情在工程界裡頭不管設計的公司設計建造或PCM在事前把可能潛在的廠商進行相關的詢價這是合理的嗎這是一般正常的作業方法好 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
135.202 |
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153.819 |
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那巡駕完的這些廠商被巡駕的廠商可不可以來投標如果他這個相關的招標的資訊已經公開的沒有迴避的問題好那現在站在工程會的角度這個案子你們看起來有沒有怪怪的 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
155.284 |
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177.912 |
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因為如果照媒體的報導好像問題比較出在是巡價跟顧問公司提出預算的那媒體不管是他自己想像的或者是有人講的或者是怎麼樣怎麼樣如果你們看完這些報導那你覺得在工程上這有沒有怪怪的 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
178.447 |
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201.174 |
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目前我們就程序上來看我們看不出來有什麼特別的問題所以我們會去進行工程的集合集合形式上看起來我們有先去瞭解就形式上看起來不曉得問題是出在哪裡是沒有發現有異常這案子裡面有啟動相關的瞭解多久了 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
202.026 |
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229.098 |
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因為媒體報導當時的那個檢舉並沒有到公審會對 我知道我們是這一次媒體報導以後那麼我們才啟動內部的一個先了解那因為我們的了解只是從相關的政府公告裡面去得知啦那我們要進一步去看個案的文件的話必須啟動集合的這個制度那啟動集合的制度才有辦法去看個案現在還沒啟動 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
230.378 |
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258.509 |
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現在準備要啟動但是先從政府採購的相關的在你們手上的文件嘛因為那都公開資訊就去研判他到底有沒有跟一般的採購案不太一樣那至於這一個個案就是要啟動相關的集合才能夠查清楚嗎現在的這個程序到這裡好 接下來請忠友 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
260.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
284.76 |
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委員長 這個案子從比較少的經費到比較多的經費你都參與嗎我不瞭解委員的意思 從比較少的經費是值的就是說他後來推出去嘛 本來經費比較少然後往外推嘛 這個過程你也在中游嗎這個過程你都有參與嗎 有參與那台灣世襲在這個案子的角色是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
285.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
314.597 |
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他是我們委託的專業顧問公司做什麼 他從事細部設計港的這個細部設計還有預算的籌編以及招標文件的撰寫那監照也是他們 監照也委託他監照也是他們 那專案管理是誰專案管理也是委託他委託台灣世西就是設計監照 專案管理都是台灣世西好 那台灣世西在這個案子裡頭歷年歷次提出來的 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
315.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
335.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
金額相關的討論你也都參與嗎這個部分沒有比較重大的才會有參與好 我是說從這個現在到幾百億最新的這個數字你有參與嗎沒有 我收到的話就是他們提報的一個238億我知道 我是說這個數字你有看到嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
336.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
364.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
要公告之前 就公告招標之前嘛好 那你們說這個世襲送來的這些資訊啊你們內部會進行相關的你們的名詞 進行相關的這個查對啦諸如此類的事情你們用什麼專業去評估世襲送來的是對的我們當然就是做複合啦對 複合 你們怎麼複合那我們就是對於比較大宗的這個材料的部分那我們自己公司也有以往 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
365.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
388.909 |
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你們是處理材料的單價嗎數量呢數量是屬於台灣四溪他要去好所以在你們這個階段就台灣四溪送進來有單價有數量有各式各樣的工法包括直接工程間接工程假設工程全部都有嘛對不對那在你們這一端處理的就是個別比較大宗的材料的單價是的其他呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
391.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
414.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
其他的沒有 就是就單價的部分其他的 你們也沒這個專業可以處理這個你們如果有專業就不用找世襲 對不對所以說在國內的工程界是這樣嘛因為你要做 你不是負責任的嘛所以你們就拿了一筆錢 請各個工程顧問公司那全台灣也不是只有世襲嘛世襲要來做這個案子 也是 你們也是招標的嗎對 也是經過招標才好所以送進來之後 對中友來說你們就只處理到那一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
420.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
421.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
那你們會有意見嗎當然會經過討論會議去討論我說你們怎麼討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
442.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
460.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
當然先經過會議去討論你們內部也會有專家去檢核譬如說海事工程專家土木工程專家相關的這些專家去檢核世襲交來的東西嗎是啊 是啊我們公司自己也有工程人員OK 所以就是說世襲送來的你們也會做檢核 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
461.687 |
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最後請問董事長 這案子這樣子下來啊照你的瞭解啦 照你的瞭解這個案子啊 中油的內部啊不要管行政程序有沒有瑕疵那裡面內部的事你判斷喔 這個案子這樣下來中油公司有沒有人會被移送法辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
480.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
501.68 |
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我目前來講我不會我對我的同仁非常有信心我不認為我們公司的人有涉入在這整個過程中就你的了解啦我有對同仁有信心OK就是說對你現在你當董事長或之前總經理你掌握的這一個資訊你認為中油公司的同仁在這個案子裡頭啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
502.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
520.048 |
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還不到這一個可能會被相關處罰的問題是就你有信心我有信心那行政程序上呢是有沒有瑕疵行政程序上也沒有瑕疵目前看起來所有檢視資料的腳都按照程序在走就這一個採購的案子 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
520.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
541.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
在中有歷次相關的採購裡頭這個採購的案子你看起來也沒有相關的瑕疵沒有也沒有相關的瑕疵是那這個媒體報導成這樣今天委員質詢成這樣最後你有沒有什麼要跟各位講說這個案子啊你們的最後的這一個態度是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
542.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
571.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
我態度就是說 現在既然有新市政嘛我們重啟行政調查來表達我們中央公司的一個決心當然在這個過程中檢調單位也會再調查我們可以互相搭配如果說最後是有這個事實或者是沒有這個事實那當然所採取的後續的動作就會不一樣好 因為你當董事長負全責嘛這個案子所有相關的文件我相信你想要看你也都看得到 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
572.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
595.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
那接下來包括法務部啊 調局或廉政署接下來或相關的檢察官在查這個案子的時候也一定會跟你們要 對吧那在跟你們要之前我判斷你也應該都會看過或者是你的幕僚人員也都會先看過這些案子的真實的這些資訊嘛所以到目前為止你還是很有信心 是的 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
596.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
606.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
好 那就繼續加油那相關這一個檢察官要的資料不要做任何的隱瞞那就交給這個司法去進行相關的調查好 謝謝 |