| IVOD_ID |
165507 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165507 |
| 日期 |
2025-11-17 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-4-36-8 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期司法及法制委員會第8次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
8 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
36 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
司法及法制委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期司法及法制委員會第8次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-11-17T10:36:05+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-11-17T10:49:33+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:13:28 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/ff1e125e807f56ab21e8db0266265f72c344f506729c478ca41d86124363ebc2bad02b2ffd216a645ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
王鴻薇 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:36:05 - 10:49:33 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-11-17T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期司法及法制委員會第8次全體委員會議（事由：邀請法務部部長、法務部調查局局長、經濟部部長、財政部部長、交通部部長、行政院公共工程委員會主任委員、環境部、法務部廉政署、台灣中油股份有限公司董事長、台灣電力股份有限公司董事長等就「中油三接浮報工程款爭議及近年來國營事業貪瀆案件查處成效」進行專題報告，並備質詢。） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
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好謝謝主席我請一下我們中油董事長經濟部經濟部今天次長經濟部次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
27.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
49.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
好 董事長 市長我們今天主要專案報告是在於我們中油的三接的這個工程那當然因為之前是先提出來二期工程它的整個的金額一直腐爛的報價那今天又有一個新的爆料就是在一期工程的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
50.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
75.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
也有就是跟不合就是一般來講就是先做這個價格標先讓廠商來報價我想請問一下董事長一期的部分得標的公司是什麼公司黃昌泛亞的一個共同團隊來投標 一期的部分第一期那第二期呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
76.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
90.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
第二期也是黃昌、范雅這個團隊的都是兩家同樣的公司那在這個黃昌的部分黃昌部分是他的得標金額是多少他一期的得標金額 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
92.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
101.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
我們先講第二 外推這個部分它得標是235億253億 這應該講二期二期total 253億那麼第一期得標金額為220億第一期220億嗎最佳這個我說明一下就是建港微堤造地工程它的合約決標金額是222億 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
121.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
130.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
那後來因為外推方案的關係所以把原來的這個工程裡面沒有重疊的部分就把它切出去了 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
131.491 |
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149.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
只有在原先不變的部分 留在原合約不是 你這樣有點複雜我現在齁 我們先把它切開來看二期 二期就是我們今天專案報告的二期的工程總價最後確定的是253億嘛253億 對不對好 那一期呢 我講的是一期166億 這樣不就不會搞混了 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
158.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
186.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
一期166億但這個還是有點奇怪因為根據黃昌海市他自己的公告他自己的公告一期是172億172億有沒有修正對那個一期是166但是呢工程驗收結束以後做最終的結算是172億追加了 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
189.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
204.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
對不起講錯了講反了契約是172最後的結算是166是結算166億然後到了第二期變成253億我想起我一期二期的工程有什麼不一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
205.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
224.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
二期的工程它的防波堤的長度比較長這第一點 第二點呢長多少呢大概接近一千米接近一千米有長到 有比較 我說比較長到一千米嗎700公尺700公尺嘛長度多了700公尺700公尺變一千米對不起 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
227.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
243.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
那個水深的部分也不一樣一期的部分水深是在-15米以內我看到的資料如果按照沉箱的部分沉箱的部分二期是144座沉箱一期是138座沉箱 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
247.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
251.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
那當然這個兩期的工程時間距離有點長那有可能是受到比如成本啦或者物料什麼等等之類的無論如何一期跟二期的工程我其實看不出來兩個工程它的難度跟它的規模有差多少但是呢金額大幅的增加 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
271.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
297.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
那這個部分而且在二期的部分黃昌的比例由原來的47%增加到73%所以他得標的金額將近200億186.83億那這個當然現在檢調要去調查這裡面所謂的相關的爆料那另外我想請教董事長你們已經完成你們的行政調查了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
298.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
310.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
第一次的行政調查在去年年底就完成了那現在呢就根據新市政我們已經重啟了調查什麼時候開始重啟 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
312.862 |
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331.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
上週在記者會之後我們就開始了上週開始重啟所以還在進行中進行中那你們在去年年底的行政調查的內容是跟現在的爆料的內容是一致的嗎也就是這邊有服邊然後工程款爆增的狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
332.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
355.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
基本上主題就是這個項目那所以上次行政調查已經結案已經結案所以所以董事長還有部長如果這一次檢調的調查因為檢調現在在調查中如果出現如果確實裡面有所弊端的話那麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
356.184 |
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362.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
你們行政調查要不要負責任啊因為你們行政調查結案啦所以才會有這個陸陸續續繼續來爆料啊是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
365.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
391.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
就是剛剛跟委員報告就是說現在有新施政出來了所以我們調查的當時有這個錄音嗎當時沒有當時沒有這個錄音所以你們現在就是在行政調查裡面主要針對這個錄音也就是有說什麼中油什麼都不缺啦就是而且錢最多啦就不缺錢所以這個部分你們現在是第二次第二次行政調查的重點 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
393.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
412.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
預計行政調查什麼時候會完成我是希望我們政風署在一個月內把它完成一個月內 如果是說以11月去上個星期的話所以應該在12月初就可以完成整個的行政調查是不是在12月中好了 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
413.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
419.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
我一講你就一個月你要不要又把他拖到12月中好吧就是12月中那麼你們就應該完成你們的行政調查給外界一個交代我要講的是為什麼特別提到黃昌黃昌這家公司在我如果看這個政府採購網 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
435.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
446.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
他在2023年2024年大概政府得標案件大概是100億到200億元之間100億到200億元之間2025大爆發超過400億 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
452.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
476.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
超過400億那當然他其實這個黃昌他的這個得標跟政府得標台北市卻是捷運工程因為他之前那個有包捷運工程然後呢有一些國道工程也有但是這445億裡面貢獻最大的就是中油就是中油而且他過去跟中油沒有什麼往來 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
478.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
497.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
它過去跟中油沒有什麼往來它大部分都是地方的交通工程為主或者都交通工程為主所以過去它的時機其實它也跟中油的工程是沒有這麼相關更不要說這些提防什麼外推工程 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
498.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
522.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
那但是呢 一期給他 二期給他一期得標的比例47%到了二期的比例超過70%確實讓大家覺得說他整個在中油的工程裡面是大爆發的所以我想請教一下董事長這家黃昌你之前認識嗎在所謂一期得標以前不認識 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
527.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
552.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
一起得標之前不認識那得標之後就認識了當然因為有這個契約執行關係嘛對於工程的執行當然就會每個月都要開會就會接觸到就會接觸所以你們個人是很很信任黃昌在這個三接這個重大的這個工程一期二期你們很信任他的品質 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
554.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
566.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
我不能講說很信任 就是有工程的合約嘛那麼雙方依照合約上面所規定的權利義務來去共同執行讓這個工程做得更好 更完善 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
567.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
588.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
因為我要特別提到就是說因為黃昌過去他沒有跟你們中有相關的往來也沒有這些相關的時機比如說你今天如果是一些交通工程交給他我覺得我更認為是比較合理因為他過去他做了很多的不管捷運啊或者是國道的一些交通的工程 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
588.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
617.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
那這個工程金額這麼龐大然後現在又出現了就出現了這些相關的這些質疑那黃昌這家公司以前被人家戲稱為叫什麼黃家公司為什麼黃家那他以前是主要是跟陳水扁前總統關係非常密切因為大家都知道陳水扁總統他入獄的時候正好黃昌的老闆是跟他住同一個牢房 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
618.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
636.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
住同一個牢房 所以過去 過去黃長他叫黃長 但是很多人都叫他黃家 黃家營造那但是在陳水扁這個總統他卸任之後其實他跟這個企業界跟政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
637.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
647.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
就沒有那麼很明確的往來但是現在又突然起了這樣子的一個我們中油的爭議中油累計虧損現在是多少累計虧損接近800億 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
653.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
668.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
累積虧損才800億嗎目前這個財務報表累積虧損大概800億但是因為我們之前有一些保留所以把以前累積的虧損就把它打掉了那目前帳面上大概是累積虧損800億也有800億 到現在為止 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
671.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
700.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
所以就說我們今天過去講到中郵的弊案其實真的非常多啦來我們看一下2022年2022年呢那個時候呢就是在其實他本來是一案變成就像牽粽子一樣他辦一個案子又一簽再簽就簽了好幾個當時2022年中郵曾經陷入多起的弊案之中 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
701.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
727.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
而且後來呢真的都有被起訴有被起訴有收回當時當時的中油董事長李順清他有講到因為那時候一而再再而三的發生這些相關的貪瀆弊案他說啊他說他很痛心這些貪污弊案讓他痛心要貪污賺大錢不要來中油 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
728.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
735.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
我覺得這句話要再次的送給我們現在的中油我覺得同樣董事長也要有這樣的魄力跟這樣的認知如果你想要賺錢不要來中油因為中油是一個獨家的國營事業那確實它每一起標案都非常龐大 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
749.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
762.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
那這些弊案其實如果我不曉得檢調要花多少時間才能夠給我們一個答案那您剛剛講說你的行政調查在12月中可以提出來那我也會希望董事長能夠本於真的要查好弊案如果真的有貪瀆就把它查出來不要互短可不可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
775.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
804.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
可以 一定是這樣做對 不要護短因為如果真的有這個事情的話一定要把他抓出來因為如果說這樣的弊案的陰影揮之不去然後其實馬上因為尤其這些都有一些牽涉到有沒有政商關係他不是單純的單純的貪圖弊案喔他還牽涉到有沒有其他政治的這個關係的話其實對中友絕對是傷害 好不好是 好好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
807.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
809.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
好 謝謝那我們現在先休息五分鐘 |