| IVOD_ID |
16550 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16550 |
| 日期 |
2025-03-27 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-19-5 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期經濟委員會第5次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
5 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
19 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
經濟委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期經濟委員會第5次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2025-03-27T08:30:37+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-03-27T12:00:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
03:29:23 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/16eb79f0bb3b77dbaa0a16addb122639561c77e525e498817692a6bdb7e2f09fe83e3c43432a88235ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-03-27T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期經濟委員會第5次全體委員會議（事由：邀請國家發展委員會主任委員、農業部部長、內政部首長、財政部首長、行政院主計總處首長就「鄉村發展總體檢討及如何提升城鄉發展韌性之規劃方向」進行報告，並備質詢。【3月26日及27日二天一次會】） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:30:37 - 12:00:00 |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
399.488 |
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399.569 |
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谢谢观看 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
515.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
515.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
谢谢观看 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
557.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
557.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
MING PAO CANADA MANGA |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
611.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
640.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
字幕志愿者 杨茜茜 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
692.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
692.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
谢谢观看 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
753.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
760.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
谢谢观看 欢迎订阅 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
888.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
888.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
谢谢观看,下次见! |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
1127.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
1127.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
谢谢观看 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
1577.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
1579.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
谢谢观看 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
1753.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
1753.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
谢谢观看,下次见! |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
1808.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
1809.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
谢谢大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
1854.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
1874.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
好繼續開會現在進行報告事項請宣讀邀請國家發展委員會主任委員 農業部部長內政部首長財政部首長行政院主計總署首長就農村發展總體檢討及如何提升鄉村城鄉發展任性之規劃方向進行報告並被質詢宣讀完畢好 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
1876.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
1898.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
本日議程排定鄉村發展總體檢討及如何提升城鄉發展韌性之規劃方向進行報告並備質詢我們先介紹在場的列席機關首長那首先有我們國家發展委員會我們的副主任委員彭麗珮彭副主委好 謝謝還有我們行政院國家發展 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
1904.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
1927.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
基金管理會副執行秘書施明山好你好我們農業部政務次長胡忠一胡次長好還有我們內政部國土管理署我們副署長徐彥興徐副署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
1929.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
1949.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
以及我們農村發展及水土保持署副署長蘇茂祥 蘇副署長還有我們財政部的國有財產署副署長李正宗行政院主計總署基金管預算處處長黃淑娟好有 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
1958.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
1964.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
好那我們是不是先請國家發展委員會彭麗珮副主委進行報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
1978.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
1995.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
主席 各位委員先敬大家早感謝委員會今天安排鄉村發展總體檢討及如何提升城鄉發展任性之規劃方向專案報告以下請就本會辦理情形報告如下 敬請支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
1996.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2004.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
首先為落實賴總統均衡台灣的施政方針同時因應國際經貿情勢以及我國產業數位近鄰雙軸轉型的發展趨勢本會結合相關部會共同規劃六大區域產業及生活圈以國家整體觀點推動產業發展及 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2018.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2046.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
公共建設均衡佈局六大區域產業及生活圈規劃內容已於113年12月12日提報行政院經濟發展委員會第三次會議討論通過經過全面盤點各地方在地特色及資源規劃北北基宜為首都圈黃金狼帶桃竹苗為桃竹苗大細股中張投雲將推動成為精密智慧新核心張南 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2049.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2065.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
嘉南高坪以大南方新矽谷推動宜花東屏南則朝東部漫火城鄉發展金馬鵬發展為低碳熱火離島等並將在全國各縣市推動包括軌道公路 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2067.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2084.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
醫療、居住、農業、水資源、文化、觀光等超過152項重要建設配合六大區域產業發展中央將攜手地方政府完善周邊九大生活機能生態圈推動包括供水供電 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2085.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2112.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
居住教育医疗文化交通旅宿生活购物及净零废弃物等配套措施及基础建设持续带动更多的在地就业机会提升员工薪资所得让国人都能够共享经济发展的成果并连带提高国家的人均GDP有效缩小城乡与贫富差距加速区域平衡发展 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2113.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2119.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
提升國家整體競爭力確實達成徵就業提薪資繁地方的三個目標 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2121.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2142.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
其次為立各縣市政府提出因地制宜且具有任性的法定鄉村空間計劃內政部將鄉村地區整體規劃納入國土計劃法規範1114年1月20日公告之修正之國土計劃法第八條第三項規定直轄市縣市主管機關擬定直轄市縣市國土計劃時 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2144.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2170.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
得辦理鄉村地區整體規劃並是實際需要研擬鄉村地區計劃納入直轄市縣市國土計劃並得另以覆測方式定之內政部為協助直轄市縣市政府推動鄉村地區整體規劃作業透過依法設置的國土永續發展基金以分別於110年至113年補助直轄市縣市政府辦理鄉村地區整體規劃作業經費待鄉村地區整體規劃完成後 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2174.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2188.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
得據以進一步轉化研擬鄉村地區計畫依照審議程序納入直轄市縣市國土計畫制定因地制宜的空間計畫或土地使用管制最後 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2189.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2218.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
推動城鄉及區域均衡發展為長期之工作本會將持續會同相關部會積極推動並且透過六大區域產業及生活圈規劃國土計畫及鄉村地區整體規劃進行縣市合作跨域之規劃整合部會資源投入關鍵公共建設以均衡城鄉發展並得以減緩偏鄉的人口外流以上報告敬請各位委員指教謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2224.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2231.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
好謝謝我們副主委很精彩的報告來下一位我們請農業部胡中醫次長進行報告來請次長還有我們科學委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2241.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2264.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
在今天我們本部就國土計劃法修正展連後之政策因應作為及如何提升城鄉發展任性之規劃方向提出專案報告願針對本部擬推動之政策因應作為進行說明敬請各位委員不定時交首先國土計劃法經大院在去年12月31日刪除通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2266.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2281.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
將直轄市縣市國土功能分區圖公告期限延後6年經查截至3月24日除了南投縣之外21個直轄市縣市政府均將國土功能分區圖報請內政部國土計畫審議委員會審查審議 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2286.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2301.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
本部亦積極參與各級國土計畫審議會表達本部立場引導各職轄市縣市政府合理化設農業發展地區與維護國人糧食安全保障農民權益 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2303.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2319.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
農業部後續處理規劃第一點我們將配合省市農業發展地區分類劃設條件針對直轄市縣市政府提報內政部省域之國土功能分區圖本部系依現行全國國土計畫及各直轄市 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2320.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2347.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
縣市國土計畫指導提供審查意見然直轄市縣市政府功能分區圖公開展覽及公聽會辦理期間就農業發展地區各分類例如農一農二化設條件所提出因地質疑方式及各界所提出的爭議問題本部將嚴厲納入農地品質程度高低例如灌溉能力等等 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2350.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2371.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
農產業價值鏈等發展需求等因素提出分類合理化設因應做法以落實國土空間合理配置第二點我們將因應國土計劃法管制體系原理農業部主管法規修正作業那目前我們已經修正 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2373.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2379.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
本部主管的農業發展條例、山坡地保育利用條例、水土保持法、森林法等相關法規 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2381.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2405.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
那第三點我們將確立農業施政資源投入範圍以農業發展地區為原則那由於農業發展地區是以農業生產環境維持糧食安全功能及曾經投資建設重大農業改良設施進行發射並按農地生產資源條件予以分類所以本部農業設施資源應以達成扶植農產業永續及農村發展為目標 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2411.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2430.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
自應已投入農業發展地區的原則對於既有施政資源投入農業發展地區以外者將應應國土規劃原則規劃或建立退場機制此外本部將依農業發展條例第八條規定輔導直轄市縣市農業主管機關擬定農地利用總和規劃計畫引導農村合理發展促進農地資源永續利用與發展 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2439.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2452.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
第四我們將強化農村規劃策略首先我們將全面檢討農村整體規劃建構層級式規劃體系本年度起輔導縣市政府修正縣市農村再生總體計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2454.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2474.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
執行農村再生計畫引導農地明智利用集中投入農業輔導資源其次備套修正農村再生條例及農村及農地管理相關法規完整農村再生法規體系及農地管理相關規定第三 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2476.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2500.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
針對農業發展地區第四類及其附近地區將推動農村再生相關計畫研擬農村規劃空間及土地使用計畫促進農村活化與產業創新加強農村基礎建設及服務提升農村生活品質發揮農村、農地及農業整體之多元價值打造韌性、安心、永續發展之農村 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2501.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2530.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
最後國土計畫法帶來的影響不僅是土地使用管制重大變革更牽動農業在整體國土空間發展方向農業部門當以農產業及農村發展引導管制之思維參與相關制度規劃結合跨部會資源共同打造農村永續發展藍圖確保農地資源及促進六級化產業發展以上報告敬請各位委員支持與指教謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2535.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2537.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
好 謝謝我們胡次長的報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2538.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2567.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
那我們現在還有內政部跟財政部有書面報告請委員自行參閱並刊登公報我們現在開始進行詢答委員質詢前原例做以下宣告每位委員發言時間本會委員5分鐘必要時得延長1分鐘非本會委員4分鐘上午10點30分截止發言登記我們現在請登記第一位曾聽非委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2577.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2600.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
我們請國發會好有請國發會委員長副主委好我想了解的是如果依照你們做統籌的部分那請問我們國土計畫現在延後6年那你認為我們下一步要怎麼去做 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2604.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2624.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
國土計畫當然展現了六年那目前也增列了一條就是第八條第三項那這一個部分其實蠻重要的就是鄉村地區整體規劃那有這樣的一個在鄉村地區比較上位一點的指導那個土地怎麼樣使用再訂定鄉村細部計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2625.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2650.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
那這個銷售細部計畫就會落實到空間上面那不就是要把我們所有現在已經送到我們內政部這些各縣市送到內政部要再退到各縣市還是怎麼做我現在要了解的是說你認為現在不知道怎麼做那我們內政部一起上來應該是不會退對 那怎麼辦沒有 現在所有的鄉親都在 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2651.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2677.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
疑問是原本4月30號那真的很感謝就是說我們的政府有聽到地方的聲音所有的民眾本來是焦慮的現在鬆了一口氣當你今天把一塊土地然後讓他覺得說今天被劃下去之後可能未來沒有發展的空間有可能是 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2679.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2703.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
這塊地會變成無用武之地他內心的焦慮是那是他的財產是所以當我們聽到了地方的聲音我們中央也做了一些改變延後了六年好那現在民眾在問了是可是他們現在已經被送上去的這些資料尤其被畫了農醫是 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2706.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2723.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
因為農醫其實限制是最多的是 跟委員報告因為現在到各縣 據我所知待會再請副署長內政部這邊再補充據我所知因為這個分區圖它是比較接近現況的編定那這邊大概都已經編定完成了 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2723.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
2746.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
那這些的分區界定好之後其實在落實上面其實各鄉村或是各鄉鎮市他們其實或是縣市政府 直轄市縣市政府對他們的空間使用其實要有一定的想法而不是說就我現況這樣子就就是所以他們可是他們的現況跟民眾是有落差的就是說今天我被畫色農醫 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
2748.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
2763.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
我會發射農藝之後我被限制了就是他們所得到的訊息其實是不對等的像我跟他們說其實國土計畫對你們是好的沒有一個人聽得下去因為他們已經被錯誤的訊息然後 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
2764.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
2782.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
放在他們腦中裡面所以現在他們所擔心的是好那麼如果在這樣的狀況之下我們有做了一個所謂的增加條款再去做整個鄉村地區的一些重新調整或規劃那這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
2783.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
2802.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
那他們該跟誰講因為這個案子像台南都已經送到內政部啦像農一被劃的被劃農一啊農二的被劃農二啊可是這六年當中我們要怎麼做來我們這個到底現在要問誰在做這個統籌現在是國土署在做統籌我是不是請國土署這邊來做說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
2811.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
2825.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
謝謝委員的插詢第一個委員所問的部分第一件事情是現在甚至是南投縣政府還沒有交到中央做縣市的國土計畫的最後的工程分析劃定的這部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
2826.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
2847.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
其餘的部分已經9個通過 剩下在審議中我們董事在114年2月10號的時候有拜會南投縣的縣長副署長我知道 這些是現在的過程但是我們4月30號本來要上路 現在就確定要延後6年了 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
2848.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
2875.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
我現在要詢問的是這延後六年的下一步我們要怎麼做當然你們是匯集所有各縣市目前的狀況好 六年會改變很多欸對不對難道你要把這一本現在各縣市然後做的這一本然後一直放放放 放到六年後再執行嗎是這樣嗎那跟現在大家的單憂有什麼不一樣還是一樣啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
2877.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
2897.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
那怎麼辦你要跟大家說下一步啊所以1月20號的部分我們除了延長的這件事情就是相規的這個制度把那個法定進去之後那我們現在相規可以做兩件事嘛一個事情是相規就可以再相規就可以去review現在的工人分區的相關部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
2898.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
2916.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
從他整體規劃的部分可以去調整所以你的意思是說可以用這個相規的部分然後由各縣市政府再去做檢討是這樣嗎在補資料上因為畢竟六年啊是不是這六年可能有很多的變動 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
2917.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
2936.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
那所以我可以再以相規來做調整是不是這樣子說有相規這個機制可以調整做復健然後列入到那個做復健可是問題是它裡面被化色了農藝啊什麼叫復健它就可以進一步做下一階段的調整嘛那這部分就是要先進行 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
2937.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
2954.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
所以我是可以我不用復建啊我做復建問題是今天我的土地都已經化為農醫了啊我用復建我到底是可以做什麼樣的一個處理不是所謂復建意思是祖文的部分是依法的相關的程序所定的祖文的計畫書的祖文 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
2955.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
2970.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
附的部分因為有相規這個配套機制他會放到這邊去補充去做一些相關的所以我可以用相規這個附件把我前面認為我要經由調整的我再來做一些處理之後再由附件再送上來嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
2971.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
2997.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
對就review完整合完之後review完他該有的農地的相關的所以目前都尚未定案嘛對不對只是把各縣市的案子有送上來就只有南投還沒有其他都送上來那未來我們就可以用鄉規這一條再去做復建補強的動作對在下一階段就可以做這個做調整那什麼時候預計什麼時候可以做這樣的調整 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
2999.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3014.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
我們現在主要其實是一個是在審議中的送上來的審議我們也得把它審議完第二個部分是這個南投的部分一進來之後我們也要做審議不是你審議完了現在大家擔心就是這樣你審議完的標準是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3015.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3039.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
你審議完了 那如果說今天在地方因為鄉規而有說需要調整六年耶 副署長不是六天 不是六個月這個國土計畫已經延後六年這六年你知道會發生什麼事嗎所以你現在你審議了之後是用了審議 然後再放六年嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3041.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3066.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
另外一件事情其實是現在因為還沒有全部公告還沒有公告實施現在全部的功能分區嘛那這樣子的狀況之下現在還在趨近的這個審議的階段那有相規去做檢討部分就可以指導跟指導的部分你要把這個訊息給各地方政府而且你要定一個時間這六年我要再強調 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3068.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3090.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
國土計畫延後六年不是六天也不是六個月六年當中會發生什麼事情沒有人知道一個孩子出生也六歲他會改變怎樣也不知道所以你要定案之前你要定一個說到底我們要在什麼時候要做一個最後定案 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3091.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3114.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
這個部分很重要你不要去核定之後然後又叫他們補強那個又會引發人心惶惶所以我只是提醒因為4月30號是我們這一期原本要執行的可是因為延後了6年所以整個情勢都改變所以我們的時間點一定要再重新訂出SOP出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3117.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3136.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
提早定大家才有依循的方向否則有可能又變這一次一樣可能六年後又要再延六年你先把我們這六年準備要做的全部公布大家照著這樣的劇本來走可以嗎好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3139.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3161.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
好 謝謝亭飛委員事實上亭飛委員剛剛質詢就是我今天排這個議題的重點這6年應該要盤整出一個6年計畫那鄉村的這個整體規劃是要解決國土計畫法把這些地目把它分類那我們現在要讓它可以更合理化 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3162.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3184.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
讓整個鄉村是因為國土計畫法是可以連動讓鄉村發展的所以鄉村規劃既然是一個附件是一個配套那重點就是在這個配套配套沒做好以後國土計畫法還是會卡關所以這六點很重要我們也是希望整個經紀委員會必須要盯著這件事情好來我們下一位請楊瓊英委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3192.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3193.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
謝謝主席 楊全元發言 要請國發會 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3202.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3221.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
我們看到國土計劃法的相關配套規定不是很明確所以導致自來難行所以立法院才會在去年底三讀通過國土計劃法部分條文修正草案將原定 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3222.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3238.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
要在2025年4月30號實施的國土功能分區土公告期限延後6年到2031年以減少整個在計畫執行的衝擊以及民怨在這樣的一個情況之下本席要請教副主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3240.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3261.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
國發會是作為我們整個國家發展總體規劃的核心單位那當前的國土計畫法的分區管制跟產業發展的需求之間仍有很多相當的一個矛盾那例如說地方政府反映部分的農業發展區域或者是特定地區的使用限制影響到經濟的發展 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3263.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3290.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
那國發會你在整個因為我們延長六年了這個時間非常的寶貴你在整個國土規劃與產業發展間你要如何的取得平衡請做說明是 跟委員報告就是我們現在已經在剛剛有報告過就是六大區域的這個我們從產業角度出發跟生活圈的角度出發我們去規劃六大的這個區域發展的一個規劃 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3292.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3318.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
那這個比較從產業面出發的就是希望把經濟部產業園區國科會的科學園區這些比較大重大的那加上我覺得目前看起來是鄉村地區其實也有一些是需要有一些農業現在農業產業不同的產業能夠一起整體考量的這樣子的一個方式呢放到這個我們大的重大的國家重大的角度 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3318.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3332.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
國家發展重大的六大建設裡面六大區域發展你講到重點國家發展重大的方向因為我們的國土是非常的珍貴要怎麼樣遞盡其力 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3334.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3348.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
這是非常的重要但是也就是在我跟您的這個題目當中也就是說我們在整個國土規劃跟產業發展要如何怎麼樣去取得平衡那這個就是國發會要必須用心好好去做規劃我們會繼續來這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3352.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3362.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
追蹤這樣的一個方向我們也希望達到這個均衡點那達到三全其美的一個概念一個現象那接下來我也請農業部也一起上來因為我們鑒於城鄉發展嚴重的失衡 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3368.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3374.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
嚴重失衡農村的人口外流因為基礎的建設不足導致我們整個農村經營的環境日益惡化政府在整個農地管理上採取了嚴格的保護但缺乏發展的規劃 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3390.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3406.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
導致農地雖然被限制開發但是缺乏有效的經濟活化的一個制度那如果經濟活化沒有去達成當然我們整個農村的衰退是會劇烈的那我們又看到其他國家比如像日本 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3407.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3413.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
德國他們透過了就是農村創生的這樣的一個政策結合當地的一個農業發展農村觀光跟農村的技術所以我經常說的我們台灣的農真的是我們國家的寶 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3424.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3451.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
保障我們要怎麼樣能夠讓農村的經濟跟農地保護來並行所以市長農業部你是不是要加強跟其他國家成功的這樣子具前瞻性的方案去做探討能夠達到我們真正的保護我們的農村發展我們的經濟的一個結合成功 請做說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3451.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3462.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
是非常感謝楊委員的關心其實我們過去啊從民國99年農災條例通過之後我們就一直在輔導目前已經輔導有2788個社區當中我們已經核定他通過的這個社區已經有 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3471.504 |
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3485.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
1084那這些社區我們每一年去做輔導不是只有產業的發展還有當地的文化保留還有綠美化以及整個讓鄉村國活化所以我們過去十幾年來已經陸續跟德國還有跟日本 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3485.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3489.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
那邊的優良農村在做交流市長你談到這裡當時我們推動的農村再生條例大家都全力以赴所以這段時間那你核准的2700多個社區現在所培根的現在所認證的大概是1084這個還有成長的空間 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3506.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3530.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
而且我們認為我們目前所做的機制我認為你必須先把你的機制再去做調整再去做調整做精進本席今天這個議題主要跟你討論的是這個方向因為如果政府在一段時間十來年了這一段時間我們再去精進跟世界各國成功的範例來做整個的結合 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3531.783 |
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3547.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
一定會達到更高的一個效率出來因為我說了你眼睛睜開怎麼樣都離開不了我們的農那這一些這麼好的資源資產我們要怎麼樣把它活化這是非常重要你去親近然後方向給本席 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3548.779 |
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3554.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
接下來我也請內政部也一併上來我要請教 農村長期面臨人口流失 設施不足農業轉型 它的確會有困難尤其現在整個軟化的這個問題尤其現在資訊科技一直加入在這個情況之下 內政部視農村為低度開發區也缺乏了完整性的發展規劃 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3576.381 |
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3590.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
導致我地方的這個經濟呢它是農村地區年輕人想要回來但是還是怕怕的那我們非常的希望年輕人可以回流我們運用的各種方式不管是農保的保障啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3591.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3601.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
各方面我們都努力在做但是我似乎看到成效還是有很大的空間來精進所以年輕人沒有辦法仿香作業我想會衍生更其他的一個議題所以請教副署長也就是說在針對整個國際城鎮的案例裡頭我們要怎麼樣提出具彈性的土地規劃跟基礎建設的投資讓我們的農村它不是只有保護農地 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3620.106 |
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3645.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
同時他也要激發非常重要的激發地方經濟的一個活力能夠城鄉的一個共榮跟平衡請做說明好謝謝委員的推詢第一件事情其實農地或鄉村地區他主要的目前的機制相關東西比較大的問題其實是要成就一件事情是那個生態圈就前後的整件事情都完備 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
3646.468 |
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3675.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
人家才願意住進去或發展或做他的產業等等的事情所以剛才也有講農業部有相關的那個農債也好農種也好這相關的東西就從產業生活生態相關都會去做然後這次的國土計畫大家可以看到農業我們叫農業發展的這個功能分區在裡面又1141月的部分我們也加了這個相規的機制這個相規就會把這些事情重整之後接下來在我們這邊主要是空間部門 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
3675.59 |
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3699.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
就在這空間部門就可以做功能跟土地使用相關的調節然後相關東西我們也可以跟其他的工具主要的農的公共設施工具相關工具我們就可以整合進行整體的規劃你現在說我們國防會在這裡內政部也在這裡農業部也在這裡你就可以很清楚的聽到現在是各行其事沒有做整合 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
3700.482 |
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3720.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
所以本席這一題的議題也就是討論請你們三位同在一起來討論也就是這一個不要在各起形式應該要做一個整合的工作所以我就要請我們這個國發會好好的來做整合的工作好嗎是好謝謝謝謝委員好謝謝楊瓊英委員那下一位請李玉玲委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
3735.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
3738.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
謝謝主席 請彭副主委委員長 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
3746.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
3774.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
副主委我們今天要討論的就是我們國土計劃法在2015年完成之後就分三個時間時段時程來做這個實施那全國的國土計劃法跟縣市的國土計劃法都已經公告了那國土計劃法也讓我們國土的功能分區圖延長了這個六年的時間那副主委你對這個延期的個人有什麼看法想法呢 |
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3777.943 |
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3796.45 |
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當初在修法的時候其實有一些爭議所以在這個為了解決爭議所以大院就有做這個展延的決定那這個修法之後其實在這段期間其實我們可以做很多的事情一個就是剛剛提到那個項規就是第八條第三項這個指甲師先生我必須要做的這個內容 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
3797.35 |
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3818.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
另外一個我覺得在這段期間區域計畫它還是要執行就是說因為國土計畫法公文分區還沒有完全的公告那在公告之前呢這個現行的都市區域計畫的這些執行也必須要做所以有關這些譬如說開發許可的過程可能就要跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
3819.918 |
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3829.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
最重要的就是因為如果這土地被劃定之後的話不能隨意變更所以未來只有五年做個通盤檢討才能變更所以就是被劃定它的地目的話就不能隨意所以才會在延長六年時間好好的讓我們政府去做個宣導 |
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3839.926 |
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3849.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
去規劃最重要也是各地方全國的各地方縣市政府的話在地方的發展上能夠統籌出一個功能的分區圖出來才是最重要的那在這點的話我們也要我們國發會特別要了解現在雖然說我們國土計畫法的主管機關是內政部但是我們國發會負責的是國家的整體的政策的規劃也負擔的 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
3867.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
3876.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
所有我們國家的資源分配跟我們各部會做一個協調者你們是各部會整體的協調者所以你看到經濟部的話他們所主管的是產業的園區國科會的話負責的是我們的科學的園區農業部的話是負責這個農地 |
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3888.763 |
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3904.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
是所以你們既然要各部會去整合的話應該是本席是建議說應該是用國發會來主導你們從中的協調才會更加的順利是不是你們那個負擔起這個責任嗎是跟委員報告其實我們現在就負擔這個責任因為我們所以主管機關是應該有國發會嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
3907.336 |
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3911.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
我們本來就在做部會之間的協調工作因為內政部還有沒有辦法跟跨部會來做協商因為這橫跨的經濟部還有國科會跟我們的農地農業部等等還有其他部會的所以你們必須在資源分配上還有統整各個意見上你做個協調者你就應該來承擔這個責任你們願意嗎 |
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3930.59 |
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3938.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
國家層級的這個譬如說六大區域產業這個我們確實要去做這個責任所以你們願意承擔這個責任嗎所以我現在說你們願意承擔就應該由你們來主管好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
3946.801 |
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3956.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
你們在推責任了嗎不是 沒有國家的重大政策的規劃者你卻不願意承擔這個責任因為我本席為什麼會這麼說就像是我們大矽谷計畫它是我們桃竹苗地區的這個包括我們這個資通訊還有半導體 國際物流生醫跟生技等產業的聚落 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
3967.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
3994.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
那我們希望是讓我們的產業更擴大這個產業的效應能夠帶動整體的薪資水平更增加我們就業的機會所以我們希望說我們國發會就可以來做一個統整讓你看看桃竹苗也橫跨桃竹苗各縣市它的分區的功能區分圖要做出來所以我們這個國發會來做統整做協調是更加的讓這個事情能夠事半功倍 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
3995.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4018.994 |
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是 我們已經有一個機制了你都一直點頭了 那就沒有問題了不是 我們有一個區域治理的平台那譬如說桃竹苗大氣谷其實我們也都在開像昨天我們已經開了第二次的協調會議把各部會都找來那昨天我們都開了滿長的一段時間把各個細部計畫還有配套措施各單位他們所在桃竹苗的地區所做的這些建設我們通通一一的檢視跟計畫方案我們都檢視過 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4019.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4037.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
整個國土計畫如果說在國發會來統整的話可以讓我們產業的用地更加的通盤跟長遠的規劃可以做得更好所以這點你們希望你們回去再討論一下好不好謝謝 不然的話你看包括農地 農地有農一到農五 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4038.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4052.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
他的農地如果被你們劃定特定的工業功能區分圖之後的話他是不能隨便變更的那農民的權益呢要如何去保障所以你還在跟農業部去溝通嘛我們樂於協調啦樂於協調就是協調者才必須把這個責任更加的擴大好不好那針對於我們地方今天還有排一個地方的創生計畫看到很多地方的創生計畫的話這個執行率到現在是怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4069.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4088.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
很多人來申請計畫嗎執行率有沒有過半跟委員報告我們在地方創現在分幾個部分在推動第一個部分是各縣市或者是民間團體他都其實在問你是你執行率如何執行率其實都有超過你統整這個創生計畫的話你是總經費是多少我們現在執行都有超過八成以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4097.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4125.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
這個數據再給本席因為我們看到數據沒有超過60%啦那最重要我們地方的創生是希望我們年輕人可以回鄉服務讓他能夠離外地方來為地方來做一個貢獻服務嘛那可是很多的計畫沒有來申請的是什麼原因我之前在質詢的時候也請你們去了解是因為我們的門檻太高呢還是我們的流程太過繁複讓他們沒辦法來申請你們調查結果是怎麼樣還沒有回答本席 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4126.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4147.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
是跟委員報告因為我們現在除了鄉鎮公所能夠提案之外我們也有一個叫多元提案就多元提案的方式其實不只公部門、私部門甚至於NPO他們都有可能去提案所以這個提案其實我們希望就是由下層比較主動式的那希望鄉鎮市區公所或者是縣市政府他們能夠輔導或透過我們的輔導機制 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4150.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4164.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
所以我們國發會還沒有實際了解為什麼沒有來因為我們也在在地看到很多一些創生的一些年輕人他們在做的時候都有那股熱忱但是的話為什麼沒有永續下去或者中途就作罷了那當然就是虧錢沒辦法沒辦法只好作罷 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4168.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4196.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
那我們看到我們要年輕人回鄉來做這些事情才給了地方的創生那地方的創生很多的計畫因為是年輕人那我們是不是說不只是年輕人我們可以讓地方的長者他們很多的經驗跟很多的想法可以跟他們結合起來的話讓我們年輕人結合年長的人一起來做這個地方創生再更可以相輔相仁是更好的才能永續傳承下去這個可以一個方式 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4197.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4213.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
謝謝委員建議其實這個我們也在這樣子做那譬如說我們的青培站其實我們青培雖然他是年輕人當頭可是他其他的這些成員我們需要他能夠有五個跟他相關的團隊成員這些通通都沒有限制也就是說我們希望年輕人能夠反向可是他因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4214.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4230.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
地方中高齡化那個還是需要一些年輕人在那個地方對 我說相輔相屬 相輔相成跟我們年長的一些經驗跟他們累積的這個做法可以一起讓我們的創生計畫可以更加茁壯非常感謝委員好 謝謝好 謝謝李玉玲委員那下一位請張琦楷委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4258.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4266.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
請農業部的這個胡宗一副次長叫國發會彭副主委來請好請胡次長跟我們彭副主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4270.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4293.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
胡市長,國內農糧跟公糧是重重競爭的所以我今天利用這個時間,你今天剛好來因為立法院第一會期就通過了公糧收購,今天要調高五塊錢大家都很努力,這個第一個是立法院通過的第二個經過跟行政院長、行政院的協商 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4294.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4315.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
那部長 包括部長都有說要這個完整的這個配套要好好再推動嘛那目前 目前只調高了三分之一就是一塊八左右 本來是三塊嘛那顯然分階段還要再去調整那我請你要前提去促成這個事情 好不好主管現在很緊張啦一級二層參加層很緊張部長答應我就是說他最近會安排例如說我們下鄉去傾聽這個農民的聲音嘛這個我們要趕快做 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4321.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4345.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
好因為我們這個上個會期有動了今年度的業務費30%我本來認為說你們跳票只做了三分之一嘛因為立法院過的是一公斤五塊錢你現在只調了1.82嘛那本來是要刪減這個你們的業務費的後來經過大家草野協商包括玉嶼他們都有進來一起協商所以沒有刪減可是凍結了30%那就要趕快去解決這個問題我們會尊重 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4347.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4358.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
照顧好我們的農民啦一方面你是農糧的專業你對這個事情最了解一方面是我們要好好去照顧我們的農民好不好是是沒問題沒問題當然這事情就滿你好不好我們盡快去達到每公斤調高五塊錢這個目標好不好我們會全力來做好謝謝市長謝謝來副市委是委員長來看一下你們這個網頁啊國發會定名 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4371.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4395.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
國外的網友說你們在促進產業發展上面你們去協調推動能源政策跟相關的計畫結果現在發現你們去協調完之後我們的能源結構還是出了一堆問題過幾天就要漲電價了漲電價對產業也會有很大的衝擊不只民生啊對整個產業也會有很大的衝擊啊我現在要問幾個很重要的問題經過你們協調 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4399.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4411.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
再生能源有沒有達到你們國發會本來預定的這個目標你看一下喔 總統府本來在108年的時候總統府說再生能源在2025年的今年就要達到20% |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4414.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4436.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
不只跳票 跳得太離譜了現在大概只到12%嘛 對不對這是一個 國發會你說2050年要達到60到70%看起來這個目標看起來也不容易特別是 我們用最近的來檢驗你說2030年就要到30%2035年要達到再生能源36%你覺得你們國家檢探新目標這再生能源有辦法達到嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4442.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4468.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
跟委員報告現在2025年再生能源佔比是百分之二十啦那目標是延後到2026年才要達到再生能源夠不夠今天通訊的12%而已啦12%啊你們總統府本來說要20%已經跳票了嘛那現在延到說要往後一年可是明年度總統府說賣你比較高可是看起來是跳票啊你們國發會訂的是2030年要30老實講 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4472.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4489.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
難度很高啦我今天的質疑點就是說你國家發展很重要 你是領頭羊啊你訂目標要確合實際 對不對 這是確合實際嘛如果訂完之後就一定要去達成 好不好來來來 我跟你講更嚴重的來不只達不到 你來看一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4490.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4506.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
童子賢啊 童子賢是國家氣候變遷對策委員會副召集人 召集人是一代總統啦童子賢是副召集人 他怎麼說他說20 現在 現在如果他用前年2023年的這個用電來算我們全國用了2821次 億度的這個電 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4512.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4537.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
他說這個電如果全部都是向你們推再生能源用光電板去算會很恐怖耶這影響到我們全台灣人的生活空間他說如果全部用太陽能來發這個國家要用的電要需要10.5個台北市的這個面積就像台灣啊全部的面積有8%台灣有高山嘛對不對可以用的大部分比較精華都是平原嘛平原的30%三層全部都鋪蓋這個光電板 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4542.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4562.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
太陽光電板不可能嘛那這樣的話台灣就活不下去啦生活空間啊所以顯然在推動這個你說你不要去協調這個國家的這個能源的時候這個要非常注意好不好好 謝謝還影響到生命的這個健康喔是生命的健康我先給大家看一個2019年啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4564.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4576.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
國際大型的公衛研究發現,你如果是燒煤,燒煤這個每增加1000瓦男性罹癌的這個比例就會增加59%女性更高,85%他們還進一步推估說,2025年全球的這幾年 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4590.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4611.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
全世界啊 有137萬個標準化的肺癌這個病例啊 跟燃煤都是有關的那你們應該有責任啊 你們訂了目標 而且你們要推再生能源啊結果煤越燒越大 你看今年的發展是什麼把河山廠的一號機停掉 馬上又要停二號機了以後就非核加鹽了 低碳 低碳的 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4613.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4615.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
核能沒有啦 零喔 增價是什麼? |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4615.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4628.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
九年啊 賣掉 我們跟他買電本來是已經停了對不對結果又延長 你看婚姻 嫁妓 中華台中那些人多可憐這個我希望國泡會要好好注意喔另外還影響到什麼? |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4628.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
4632.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
很多國人的生活的支出面 過去三年漲四次 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
4633.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
4649.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
事業一躍於人賊又要這樣第五次這個人民生活受到影響企業也受到影響好第四個台電的財務man我今天給他看一個很重要的財報這是第一次出現的財報台電一月份啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
4651.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
4668.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
虧損累累 光是一個月份就虧損了97億有夠恐怖的喔台電以前是金雞模 他以前每年都可以剩餘兩三百億還給我們國庫了現在光是一個月份虧損了97億大家看一下 何冷幫他賺了8億他雖然虧97億 何冷還是幫他賺錢的喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
4673.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
4694.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
結果在最近5月17號核能要停掉那虧損不是更大嗎另外一個恐怖的數據你看風電喔1月份我們買風電的時候可以買得太貴就虧損了56億天然氣虧了13另外除了自己台電自己的虧損用天然氣虧損13億之外外購的去外面買的又虧15億這個都補不了啦不只是撥補1000億2000億 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
4702.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
4729.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
這個無底洞補不了你在漲電價一直漲也沒有辦法解決問題嘛這個是多嚴重的一個問題這是第一次我給大家看的這是台電自己的財務報表一個月虧97億光電特別是光電請大家看一下光電跟風電那個損害有多大然後你又把最便宜的核電把它拿掉你說你要幫這個企業企業碰到一個很大的問題企業馬上就碰到碳配的問題對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
4731.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
4748.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
副主委馬上看到碳費的問題碳費核電是低碳嘛幾乎是零碳啊結果你現在燒煤燒天然氣啊這個錢就附加在你的碳費就附加在這個企業的這個身上了嘛影響了企業的發展跟他的競爭力嘛好最後我做個結論 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
4750.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
4776.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
好好去檢討剛剛五個面向的這個大問題好不好好健康的這個問題是我們人民生活的這個整個面積環境的這個問題還有這個電價的這個問題是最後建議我做四個建議第一個我們好好去檢討能源的政策的錯誤包括是不是應該趕快要重啟核電第二個現在行政院長跟美術都在講說要重啟核電碰到一個問題要社會共識 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
4778.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
4797.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
現在民調都很清楚 以和養立公投也都過了你如果應該遵從民意可是行政院到現在都一直在講社會共識那我們今天鄭重的呼籲依照公投法第14條第一項的規定行政部門也可以倡議開始公投你們要社會共識 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
4799.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
4808.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
行政部門提案我們來公投一次到底要不要重啟核電另外加速去處理核廢料最終處理廠的這個問題這是法律上規定行政部門要做的 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
4809.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
4836.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
到現在都沒有好好做要加速第四個檢視核電廠的運作的這個安全好不好趕快去做這四點更重要的我現在今天拿的是你的網站上面的你既然要去協調要去檢視整個我們的能源政策要去振興產業這四個建議趕快做好不好而且從剛剛五個面向是一定要照顧到人民要去振興我們的這個景氣讓我們的能源政策整個回到正常好不好不要再這樣一直錯誤下去好 謝謝主委好 主席謝謝好 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
4839.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
4867.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
好 謝謝張祺凱委員那下一位請鄭天才委員質詢主席 各位委員有請這個副主委請副主委還有內政部的 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
4876.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
4888.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
我們先請教內政部國土署在今天內政部的報告裡面特別提到國土功能分期土審議的作業進度 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
4891.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
4919.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
除了南投縣政府外其餘21個直轄市縣市政府已經將這個各該國土功能分析草案送到內政部那這個已經送來的內政部審議的情形怎麼樣好 報告委員目前除了南投縣的部分其餘21個縣市都已經送進來了然後那個委員的簡報裡面也有寫這9個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
4921.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
4944.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
包含基隆、新竹、縣新竹市、嘉義市、宜蘭縣、花蓮縣、澎湖縣、金門縣、連江縣這9個已經過了那其他我們還在審議中然後南投縣的部分我們的政治董事長在2月10號有拜訪南投縣縣政府然後就相關部分也做相關的溝通 以上好 2月10號有去溝通嘛那縣議會現在目前進度怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
4949.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
4974.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
我记得二月底三月初那个县政府有就他们的问题提出来我们也有一些公文回复回去了然后县政府应该现在正在跟县委会做一定的沟通如果经过沟通协调都顺利的话所有的县市政府也经过你们的审议完成的话那接下来呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
4975.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
4995.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
我們就陸陸續續依他提報到中央的部分依相關的原則我要問的是說這個修法延長這個怎麼處理修法 剛剛前面有一個其實是延期嘛 延期部分就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
4995.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5021.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
盡量讓這件事原來的期限可以往後那第二個部分其實是入法就剛剛講的相關的入法的部分那相關入法的部分就要整合大家就他那個農村或是其他非城鄉地區他如果有相關的這個功能分析或土地使用的相關的問題就可以就那個部分去做那個討論然後在這個過程當中還沒有公告實施的過程當中原來的區域計畫我們也會用 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5023.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5040.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
因為陸續也有一些相關的整合的計畫就要做這個指導來做一些相關的協助那個講得很複雜一般民眾不會那麼清楚其實這個我在列政委員會諮詢過很多次這個鄉村區這個部分農民最重視的其實他 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5050.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5069.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
他居住的土地能不能好好的蓋能不能依法來蓋現在就是沒有辦法依法因為法限制太嚴而且不合理為什麼我常常起我不知道你有沒有看過我常常起基隆 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5070.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5097.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
基隆的山坡地包括林口新店比一般鄉村區還陡他們一樣可以蓋大樓鄉村區也沒有要蓋大樓卻不行了這個才是真正關鍵這個部分也請內政部這個部分我之前建議的部分一定要把它納入好不好請回座 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5100.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5107.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
我們副主委國會的報告在上次業務報告裡面也提到了 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5109.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5137.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
這個六大區域產業及生活圈特別提到這個宜花東東部慢火城鄉的發展是這個看到這個慢慢火我們本來就應該了在花蓮台東很需要但是很多目前現在的這個政府的建設慢了真的慢 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5139.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5163.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
我來看要請國防會來協調交通部這個因為0403的地震造成了北威鐵路河冷到崇德這一段所以必須一定要改善台鐵漁花東地區鐵路設施安全改善計畫需求的經費是64.1億元這個部分已經 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5171.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5196.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
從行政院長都去過了交通部長也去了好幾次但是這個計畫一直還沒有核定所以這個部分請國防部協調交通部趕快核定好 我們再來協調交通部這個是一個很重要的第一個再怎麼慢 交通不能慢另外就是這個樹花庵 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5197.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5222.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
蘇阿安如果我們看了108年12月20號行政院核定可行性研究到現在花這麼長的時間這個交通部曾報到行政院當然已經經過你們了所以我們已經復院了對到行政院去年12月9號到現在所以這個部分也要請這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5225.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5246.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
國發會要去跟幕僚行政院的幕僚來去做一個你看說法改的很快就核定了沒有幾年就核定了所以這個部分這個說法確實要那麼久這個部分要去說明要去溝通 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5247.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5268.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
我以前也是常常去說明溝通我以前常常去國發會包括以前的經建會 研考會都要去溝通說明讓這個有疑惑的能夠把它講清楚說明白 好不好謝謝委員加油好 謝謝委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5273.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5297.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
好 謝謝鄭正全謝謝鄭天才委員不是 我在想誰等一下誰要幫我帶來誰謝謝鄭天才委員好 那我們下一位請張家俊委員發言主席我想請這個農業部次長跟我們國土署的副署長好 請 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5303.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5327.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
早 早那國土計畫法在去年年底完成三讀修法那確定再展延六年那這是連我們昭緯我們這個經濟委員會大家都一致支持的那去年立法院之所以通過展延修法呢是一個補課的機會我們看到我們希望期待看到一個完整的配套明確的路徑 積極的溝通請問農業部跟內政部這三個月來 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5332.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5360.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
有没有什么具体的规划为之后做准备呢是我们已经把涉及到土地管制相关的规定的六个法六部法律啊全部把它修好而且已经送到行政院那其中四部已经完成行政院的这个审议另外还有两部行政退回来给我们要我们再做修正那这个的内容呢这六部法的内容大概会跟我们的农业部跟我们的农民有什么相关呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5360.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5388.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
對就是裡面涉及包括農業發展條例還有這個農產品市場交易法還有漁業法森林法以及稅都保持法還有這個農地管制上坡地保育規則這些都跟農民的權利有直接的關係那接下來我再請教國土署一個問題就是說你知道國土計畫法跟執法的專區網站是你們設的嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5390.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5414.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
是那你知道最後一次更新是什麼時候嗎你不知道上面寫的那麼清楚去年的12月25日到今天為止顯示能有七項執法尚未完備就是剛才次長說他有通過的法你也都還沒有update那到今天喔已經三個多月了 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5415.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5437.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
完全都毫無進度那這個是否說你完全沒有實質進度那如果有進度為什麼網站不更新那如果連基本的資訊揭露都做不到你要怎麼談說你跟社會跟地方有合作呢好 跟委員報告那因為一月份要延長之後我們所有的剩下這些執法的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5437.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5465.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
我們原來都在布裡面已經在進最後的階段的部分我們就退回來依現在的法還有相規還有農業部相關的調整我們正在去所以這三個月內都沒有什麼值得可以update的東西嗎不是還是你們現在已經覺得已經延遲六年了所以我們慢慢來沒有關係我現在想說的就是其中最關鍵的國土計畫土地使用管制規則到現在連草案的定稿都看不到 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5467.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5491.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
這個你們訂稿了嗎我沒有草案訂稿可是這個專區是最後的結果嘛法定程序完成那你要讓大家知道說我們訂稿中啊民眾要怎麼討論地方政府要怎麼準備你完全都沒有任何的information你特別設了一個網站你也可以不要設這個網站你設了一個網站之後你三個月都不update假設今天我不告訴你 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5492.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5497.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
搞不好明年的今天我問你 你也都還沒有update那接下來我再請教那個農業部次長喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5501.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5527.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
當初這個農業部有承諾說會處理農地分區的爭議也說了農業堆疊式補助然後也跟這個可能跟國土計畫法並沒有說相關直接連結的扣在一起那我也想請問一下次長那請問這三個月以來有沒有針對農一農二劃分的準則跟補貼的辦法有新的進展呢劃分的準則本來就已經就有 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5528.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5535.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
我知道 但是大家很有疑慮啊你劃分的準則大家都覺得太粗糙啦你有沒有一些更細緻的規劃呢還是你覺得不需要改變這個是我們在榮譽榮那個很早就已經訂了而且已經有共識的 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5544.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5573.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
你跟誰的共識 你跟農民的共識嗎農民也有 也有學者專家還有各機關都有目前 目前喔 據我所知非常多的農業縣都對農一農二劃分的那個粗糙方式有所意見所以是農業部到現在不知道說有這樣子的大家有這樣的意見嗎還是你公文都隨便看一看 然後我們要仔細看嗎這是國家大政不能開玩笑的是啊 不能開玩笑啊我們變得非常清楚 這個委員可能 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5573.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5589.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
可能是你所講的定義跟我是不知道你的定義事實上農醫那個都很清楚你的農醫把一些沒有重化過的土地也化作農醫沒有農路沒有水路也可以當作農醫嗎那個是各縣市政府在劃分的時候把它劃進來那個是你們給的規範 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5593.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
5609.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
但是你們給的規範這不是委員可以讓我來念一下農醫的定義不需要我現在不需要你在這裡念我現在要提醒的是不管是農業部也好不管是國土署也好展延六年是希望能夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
5610.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
5618.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
展現出更妥善的一個成績單 而不是說你們可以研製六年 延宕六年 放著給他發燒 不是這樣子 六年不是一個無限期啊可能時間一晃眼就過去了 那如果到時候問題一樣存在的話那還是基層亂啊 民眾怨啊 民眾罵呀 這樣的法案就沒有辦法轉變社會的觀感 那當初他的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
5637.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
5650.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
政策正當性怎麼辦呢所以我很希望說我們今天既然是要討論國土計劃法這個延遲之後大家要怎麼把它完善我本席希望你們不要告訴我說我們都已經規劃好了 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
5652.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
5656.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
規劃好了為什麼不能實施為什麼不能實施就是因為有疑慮嘛現在已經有22個縣當中剩下南投縣沒有提出來我知道但是他們提出的還是有疑慮否則為什麼民進黨黨團他也支持要延役呢他也支持要延遲6年呢就是大家朝野 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
5673.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
5689.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
唯一的共識就是這個法不夠周延需要再把它完善包括這個國土署絕對不是只有農業部你也背負非常重要的這個責任甚至國發會也是啊跨部會的協調要怎麼協調總不能讓他們自己他們兩邊對不上是不是國發會也要負一點責任呢我問國發會啊好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
5703.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
5712.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
國發會針對這個國土計畫法有沒有在橫向溝通有沒有在協助農業部有沒有在協助內政部我們一直都有很密切的在做討論那我們像怎麼討論我們有找那個國土 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
5718.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
5741.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
國土署還有我們農業部這邊我們來討論但實際上我們也發現有一些執行上面其實目前這六年可能也必須要急著要做的事情對啊這六年本席是希望說國發會你既然要幫忙整合的話你應該要有時程出來可能幾年到幾年你要完成什麼部分幾年到幾年你要怎麼樣多辦公廳會 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
5743.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
5761.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
你必須要有一個期程而不是說漫長的這樣子等到可能要執行的前一年然後又突然發現這五年你們什麼都沒做是吧是是是這個應該我覺得國土署都目前都已經有進度而且農業部這裡也都看得到那進度也沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
5762.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
5776.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
今天委員會的內容也都沒有任何的報告啊哪一個時辰要做什麼事情會後我再跟他們來討論是 如果你們討論之後也希望能夠儘速向本委員會提出報告說明 好嗎謝謝 謝謝委員好 謝謝張家俊委員那下一位請鄭正前委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
5798.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
5806.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
謝謝主席我想請一下國發會副主委然後我們農業部政次還有國土署副署長都準備一下謝謝那跟市署官員請 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
5813.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
5829.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
副主委早我想說今天主席特別安排了一個農村發展總體檢討及如何提升城鄉發展任性之規劃方向但我覺得很清楚就是要因應國土計畫法延後六年我們這六年當中要做什麼事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
5830.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
5846.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
那才能夠讓我們的國土計畫能夠更為適當所以我想這些很重要的部分那在國發會這邊的時候有特別提到一個部分就是說對於整個六大區域產業及生活圈是接下來我們主要的發展的一個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
5847.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
5870.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
那針對這部分當中的時候有一個桃竹苗大細股計畫桃竹苗這邊就是桃竹苗大細股計畫這邊那我想說因為之前的時候也都納入重大建設重大建設我要特別問的要到一個部分是針對新竹市竹科X2旗這邊竹科X2旗這個都市計畫目前範圍大概有多大 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
5871.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
5885.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
那因為之前審議出來的跟地方的需求有很大的一個落差那在接下來的時候我們這邊要怎麼做因為我剛剛聽報告你好說你最近其實也在重新召開接下來的一個會議對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
5887.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
5890.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
昨天下午開的會的時候呢是各部會有沒有找地方政府相關一起來參與目前我們是先把 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
5905.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
5930.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
部會之間的所有相關的譬如說配套措施或是他們的策略推動策略先做一個整合然後把各個不同的部會的方案跟計畫做盤點然後把他們的里程碑跟他們的推動策略因為我看了一個我們之前桃中環大西湖計畫當中很多都是原本原有的計畫把它整個併在一起所以事實上對新竹市來講的時候呢就是我們併進來的計畫裡面有兩個是民間提出來的一個計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
5934.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
5960.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
土地開發計畫可是是市政府不通過的我們也把它納進來了所以我在想說我想講一個部分就是說既然這個六大的那個區域產業區域的跟生活圈的計畫很重要的時候然後你昨天也開了一個會那開了會既然是各部會在走的時候我想說不只是中央因為土地都在地方所以我們很需要讓地方的意見能夠很清楚的進來我剛舉個例子比方說 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
5961.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
5980.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
我們納進來的有兩個那個產業的一個區域那基本上那兩個產業區域是市政府基本上並沒有認同的一個計畫可是我們也把它都納進來了所以這表示中央在做整個桃園文化大憲武計畫當中跟地方的溝通有很大的一個落差再加上 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
5982.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
6006.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
以新竹市為例 新竹市這邊針對整個桃園大西湖計畫有一個很大的一個期待希望把竹科X2旗的一個都市計畫範圍能夠擴大納入那原本納入的範圍大概有390多公頃 可是我們這邊省出來的狀態大概只剩7、80公頃那有一個很大的落差 所以我在想說既然已經開始開這樣的會議的時候 是不是應該把地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
6006.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
6033.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
的意見一起納入才不會變成是我們中央自己開了會之後到時候地方完全沒有辦法配合是 各位說明那我們好像是在1月我記得是在1月的時候其實由我們主委跟四個市的市長然後一起共同開過一個會議那這個會議中間我們成立了一個區域治理的一個平台針對桃竹苗大矽谷中央跟地方之間的該協調的事項 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
6035.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
6064.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
那這個部分呢其實就是針對各市他們可能會碰到的一些問題或是跨部會協調的事項會在這個平台上面做協調那這個是跟地方之間的關聯那昨天開的那個會是我們自己的推動會議那沒問題那我在想說就針對新竹市竹克S2期的一個範圍當中因為可能跟國土署這邊會有很大的一個關係那我在想說也請副主委這邊能夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6065.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6080.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
加緊腳步把這部分把它給整合起來那我接下來想請教內政部國土署這邊因為這邊有提到說我們在目前除了南投 縣政府這21個縣市都已經有提出了一個國土功能分區 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6081.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6103.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
然後你這邊也提到了有九個縣市的國土功能分區圖已經經過那個國土計畫審議會議通過我想問一下因為裡面包括新竹市我想特別關心這事情就是說如果因為接下來這六年如果地方政府他們對於這個國土功能的分區圖還有意見可不可以再提出申請 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6105.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6127.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
一國土計畫法的部分下一階段就是兩個部分一個部分就是通盤檢討的部分那另外一部分就是它如果有相規的適用也可以從相規適用去這六年當中的時候就還是維持這個狀態還是說地方政府他們如果說對原本提出來的那個國土功能分區圖有意見是不是還可以再提出來新的版本 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6129.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6145.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
因為現在以現在的狀態南投如果也上來假設也上來審完審完通過就可以進行下一階段的剛才講的那個機制的部分那就可以去做討論了因為我們那個國土計畫法延後六年 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6146.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6175.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
那國發會這邊也提到要將鄉村地區整體規劃納入國土計劃法的規範這大概原本的文字裡面有那因為它延後六年的時候我們就發現農地違規使用的狀況我們在這六年當中要怎麼樣去完善去改變然後讓農地變更申請的案件請問一下這半年來或者從去年一整年大概整個農地變更的案件大概量有多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6177.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6179.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
跟委員報告你應該是講說在這個階段用趨跡適用 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6190.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6214.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
因為有很多地方的有些媒體或者說有一些不動產開發業者他們其實基本上他們在這段時間因為知道說國際化會延後六年他們其實就不斷的去push一些農地的owner那他們是不是在這狀態能夠去做變更使用那針對這六年過程當中的時候那我們對於農地變更的時候會不會有一些不一樣的一個做法 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6215.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6241.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
跟委員報告目前我們也補助了那個幾十案的相規的部分那相規部分在縣市政府有在期末階段其實他也有一些看法跟相關部分那我們就尊重他的規劃部分那這樣子因為趨跡階段還是審議嘛那審議會的時候這個東西原則我們就會會在這個原則裡面去做參裁那讓這件事情還是朝向計畫引導的方向去推動 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6241.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6256.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
OK那我想最後一個部分針對農業部這邊因為我想說我們國土計劃法很大一部分是想解決就是區域計劃當中非都市部分的一些相關的問題就是對於整個農業的一個保障那我大概有看到一個資料就是說2023年整個糧食年報當中的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6260.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6286.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
那我們看到台灣的糧食自給率就是還蠻明顯的一個降低蠻明顯的降低所以我想說這六年如果說再碰到比方說大家很多地方他們想要搶就是國土計畫法延後六年這狀態想要不斷去變更農地可能會讓農地更破碎化或者是讓未來的農業的發展會更不利那對這部分的時候我們農業部對這接下來的這六年 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6286.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6309.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
是不是會有一些什麼樣的狀態要去確保農地的完整性然後讓臺灣的糧食自給率能夠持續維持在一個比較好的一個盆地是 我們會確保這些優良農地的保存特別是農一農二還有農山在山坡地以及林地的部分還有在這個都市計畫區還沒有變更為都市計畫的這些優良農地這個我們會去把它做一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6310.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6326.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
良好的規劃然後給他做一個更高的高強度的輔導跟協助那我最後就提一個狀態因為國有計畫法會延六年草野都認為應該要延有一個很大的地方就是覺得跟地方的溝通不是那麼夠所以我們也希望說國發會這邊還有 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6328.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6355.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
比方說國土署這邊跟農業部這邊能夠跟地方做更好的一個溝通那需求能夠具體去滿足地方的一個需求那在我們六年的一個延後才會真正的有意義好不好對對謝謝謝謝委員的指教謝謝委員好謝謝鄭正前委員那也拜託我們接下來請一下蔡易瑜召委 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6368.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6388.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
好謝謝那我們是不是有請國安會副組委以及農業部次長和內政部國土管理署的副署長還有那個農村發展及水土保持署一樣是副署長我們請四位一起謝謝好 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6396.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6422.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
針對今天安排的這樣的一個命題那主要我們事實上都很關心從剛剛所有發言的委員大家都在關心說國土計畫法展延了六年那這六年我們究竟要做什麼事情那我想先還是就整個台灣的一個前提雖然我們知道台灣的鄉村是在凋零這個台灣的鄉村凋零這件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6423.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6450.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
是非常的速度非常的快比少子化的問題還要嚴重就是鄉村凋零所以你來看喔在2022年的時候在那一個年度天下雜誌就有做出了一個就是說他已經統計說當一個年度他在那一年已經說有11個村里台灣有11個村里是連鎖5當沒有新生兒 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6451.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6469.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
包括新北也有苗栗南投我們嘉義縣的布袋的考試里梅山的壁虎里台南高雄宜蘭澎湖都有這樣連續五年沒有新生兒然後在2022年那一年全台灣有179個叫做五子村里 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6470.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6489.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
那新北市是居冠,就是那個枕頭沒孩子出生那這代表的原因是什麼呢?背後意涵的意義是什麼呢?就是枕頭變沒路用的枕頭為什麼會變沒路用的?就是鄉村裡面的建地 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6490.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6511.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
第一個 地權 地用第一個 地權的問題鄉村的建地因為價錢的關係持分越分越細持分變細理 基本上後面的人要輸贏賣贏本來我們這個家族有一個人他財力比較好他說好我來把過去家裡的三合院我來打敲一敲的 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6512.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6537.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
哇 可是家裡不同的人有意見啊不同沒人幫的有意見那我就不能使用所以你看整個鄉村大概年輕人想要回到鄉村去說我回來我出生的這個部落我要在這裡恢復是沒有機會的這是第一個第二個咧整個鄉村是讓他的機能不見了過去喔過去我們在鎮卡路是騎腳踏車 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6541.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
6549.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
現在的交通不是只有車,現在差不多都不用車你看整個車都是小型的,一台車要塞進去就要有工夫、要有技術整個就老實說,小型車 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
6557.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
6575.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
所以我要跟我們在場與會的我們各位長官我們一直在講說鄉村的社區要有所謂的三生我們可以說地方創生的三生是什麼要有什麼生態要有生活要有生產 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
6578.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
6593.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
這我們都講得很好聽,大家都會...我都會背啊問題咧?我們鄉村的蒸頭咧?有...沒關係啦!對不對?沒辦法洗碗沒心酸就...加蒸頭的一間乾媽店看起來要維持就有困難了過去那種用酒乾媽店哇!充滿著我們過去故鄉的感覺都不見了那間乾媽店沒辦法生存啦生態也沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
6607.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
6635.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
所以我具體要說的就是說既然我們這六年的時間我們要有所作為啊這個作為咧就是這次我們打鄉規入法那鄉規入法有一個很大的重點就是我們要怎麼樣協助每一個村莊尤其是越偏鄉的村莊越沒人住的村莊十分越複雜的村莊我們要怎麼協助他們整合產權 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
6639.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
6664.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
叫他們整合產權 這要有時間 大家要去等他們他們要有整個 而且你們這個鄉規路法你們要把一些鄉規 鄉村規劃的模擬範本要告知這些人就是說這一個鄉村裡面要有多少的建地 建地要重整道路用地 路要變大條這個鄉村裡面要有多少商業機能 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
6666.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
6684.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
就是要有多少地方是用作生意的你這些東西都要處理要怎麼處理呢?很簡單的你要求一條錢你要有一個基金這個基金我們看要用哪些保險基金怎樣大家來談你要有一個基金要大家的氣氛 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
6686.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
6699.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
才會氣氛太貴以為如果我是所有權人我覺得這個池噴對我來說是一個負擔了他可以用合理鑑定後的一個價格把這個他的土地池噴賣給這樣的一個基金 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
6701.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
6721.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
你要賣給他 讓這個基金開始大家的氣氛湧起來未來在鄉村 在做於整個鄉村的這個都市計畫檢討的時候這個基金它等於就可以分配到土地分配到土地 那就是可以做未來這個政策的公共設施 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
6723.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
6730.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
這就是我們要做的方法好 我都說完了我想要聽一下我們國發會我們國土署跟我們農業部三個單位的意見好謝謝謝謝趙偉的 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
6740.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
6757.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
覺得還蠻興奮的那剛剛提到的就是如果我們就激動就是舊的一個社區其實尤其是農村社區其實它的吃份還有它的產權這些是相對複雜的所以我看看 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
6758.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
6772.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
看委員的報告裡面其實有特別提到就是有關比較公的部分怎麼樣去做處理那我覺得這個其實真的可以從內政部這個有一個國土永續發展基金然後可以從他的鄉村地區整體規劃 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
6774.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
6800.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
甚至鄉村的細部計畫這邊能夠去做一些可能的處理那當然我覺得過程是要溝通的因為要地方這麼多的人然後他們都有一些共識這需要時間所以我們這次還有六年我們這次的展演不是說兩年三年六年是要做事的六年協助整個鄉村把它活絡起來來我想再聽一下我們這個內政部我們國土署 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
6803.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
6824.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
謝謝趙偉跟蔡委員的質詢兩個人是同一個人是那第一件事情其實因為相規的制度它這空間制度就誠如您剛剛講您講得很清楚啦就是說我們在鄉村地區既有的很多的政策還有很多的計畫那這部分現在最後一路應該是所謂空間 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
6825.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
6852.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
包含產權的分合跟建築的部分這個部分還有一塊這個部分那相關的設計其實在這邊就可以做第一件事做平台把這些資訊跨這邊去就如您所講的到底真正要集村集村要多大過去那些東西怎麼調節然後再來其實是相關的配套例如農寵這些相關的配套把它整進來然後還有公共設施的錢那麼跟委員報告如果要做這些除了錢之外我個人認為還要忍 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
6854.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
6867.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
沒有錯因為量很大而且還要專業的培育每個村莊都會有不同的狀況這個在我們的國土署裡面教育訓練這些東西我們都有規劃都在去做努力跟相關部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
6868.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
6888.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
還是需要各部會的一起協助這部分我們一定配合所有的部會一起努力把這個永續跟繁榮的農村把它找回來謝謝好謝謝國土署那我們再請農業部是非常感謝總召這個指教其實我們是總召召委召委的這個指教其實這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
6892.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
6908.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
國土計畫法裡面有城鄉發展區,還有農業發展區,農業發展區的農事,就是剛才委員你在說的,這個部分是我們在農業部,我們的農村再生有在做的。另外就是城鄉發展區裡面,城二那裡,就是鄉村區,它是鄉村,但是不是農業,這也是鄉村區。 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
6912.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
6930.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
所以這大概一半去分布 我覺得這比較有必要的跨部會的整合 由國會出來因為我們現在在做什麼 我們在做就是農村再生 培根計畫 或者是把它合訂然後對地方的公共建設 還有這些跨域的整合 還有教育訓練等等市長 你剛才有說到城鄉區跟農業發展區但是我覺得 就我要跟你指教的啦 我覺得你講的是現況 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
6938.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
6958.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
就是現況它就是它以現況去變 它現在這樣去改變 可是現在現況就是很糟糕啊就是我講的啊 那個蒸頭 聖保羅庸蒸頭一樣的我再比一下 我們如果有一個叫極限村 永閒村 極限什麼叫極限就是那裡老闆65歲以上的 超過一半 超過50%都是65歲以上的 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
6962.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
6983.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
那個部落 都沒有一位要出生所以那個部落的一個整個生命力沒有了好 如果我是在一個村莊的人我跟你說我們六角出了三個署長侯友宜署長 陳國恩署長還有一個比較早的 比較早的廖正豪廖正豪出這麼多老人 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
6984.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
7005.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
出這麼多老人的地方就算我拿著一筆錢想要說我一定要把我的政壇待遇復甦沒辦法啦因為老人就沒配合你啦所以現在國土局法會被人家罵咧就是你們只是把現況換個名字這個現況換一個名字才會被罵嘛因為沒有改變嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
7006.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
7019.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
你聽我的意思嗎我知道我知道 那個所有管沒辦法套我現在是說我們用這六天要套這件事情所以好 我現在具體建議啦第一個 我認為說我們要有一個六年計畫剛才說 因為你要每一個村莊你要叫他們去幾位那裡要有那些人 製作要有一群人來遊說 我們來參加鄉村重新規劃他們要登出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
7033.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
7040.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
他們要投出來 秩序也要投50%出來嘛相關要50% 這50%要怎麼投出來這要有一群人 要有這群人去那裡操縱我們就要有所謂的一個預算所以這六年計畫你們這三個單位應該是要由國發會整合剩下農業部跟我們內政部 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
7054.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
7071.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
六年計劃,要有一筆錢,你就看台灣有多少寶玉,你就除以六,大概一年,需要我們來輔導多多少已經失去生活機能的鄉村,讓他去做鄉規,就要有錢,因為你要訓練這些人,第二,我剛才說的,你要有一筆基金, |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
7076.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
7093.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
開始讓這裡的氣氛 沒路用的氣氛 開始修修回來 修越多 未來我們鄉歸內這一個村莊它才會有更多道路的地方要有公共設施保留地正好裡面也要進去種一個小公園這樣也比較有生態 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
7097.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
7126.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
所以你要有公共設施保留地 你要有可以做太陽枯的間諜在那邊藝學館也可以在那裡做生意這個鄉村才會活起來啊所以這兩件事我拜託你們要有一個進度至少現階段三個月內你們能不能先把所謂鄉規我們理想中的鄉村長什麼樣子的範本先把它 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7127.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7142.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
先把它拉出來給我們看好不好好謝謝這件事是不是這個範本的事情我們會一起努力不過那個國務組這邊是主管機關是不是三個月內三個月內未來走向最後的一個範本 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7145.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7159.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
委員垂詢的部分的高度跟戰略性非常高啦三個月因為我這也不是非常高啦我的意思是說這就是要開始下去處理了嘛我也沒有說這一時三刻有辦法的總是我們先把整個風雲抓出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7161.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7182.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
一起開會可以嗎?好啦,我再來辦公廳會啦,可是你們就是要,不然你們至少把現在有在走鄉規的,就我知道有六十幾個嘛是你們把它都整理出來,然後每一個鄉規完,他們的這個政策,他們的間諜怎麼重新調整,他們的路怎麼圍,我們要看,大家拿出來看一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7186.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7201.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
趕快整理啦 不要嘗試啦 這本來就是要整理的 要不然怎麼輔導別人去做你應該 現在已經有成功 也許做了沒很成功的事情也是一個範本大家拿出來看 要不然我去輔導新的團隊出來啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7203.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7218.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
好不好 你如果這個都不走出來基本上這六年會變成空蕩蕩的六年啦 六年後大家也是新的一輩子 為了反省我們這裡大家不在這裡 也新的一輩子說20年20年10年謝謝謝謝委員好 謝謝謝謝蔡育召委好 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7233.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7235.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
那我們下一位請陳超明委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7245.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7267.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
主席好 首先有請我們農業部副市長我們那個國化會我們澎湖執委還有我們內政部國土管理使我們的習副市長好 那以上幾位委員長早安早安 第一個啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7269.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7290.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
我向你請教一下,那個副市長,你以前住在哪裡?小時候?台南?台南、中華還是哪裡?中華,我住在台南你住過四合院嗎?有啊,我們都三合院,我不是四合院三合院,好,那個彭富主委?是 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
7291.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
7301.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
阿你不讀四合院嗎?我有讀過,因為...你是建築師在台東,我外公家是三合院我們的市副市長我讀基隆你讀國際的嗎?基隆民,七度七度,我讀過三合院、四合院嗎?我為什麼會問這個問題? |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
7317.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
7340.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
其實剛剛我們趙薇講的,我非常肯定,而且很認同,跟我今天問的都是一樣,第一,村落裡面,以前的人都怕分家丟面子,結果那幾代一直傳下來,都沒有辦法解決。所以你要把鄉村的一個提升它的韌性,我告訴你,不是自己說的一樣, |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
7341.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
7346.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
不然大家都在空口講白話講一講 講給農民高興 講給誰高興那都不是做事情的方式我對這個問題 我要來彭斯委副市長 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
7360.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
7386.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
你跟我們的鄉村基路你集團要用七段徵收依照那個面積要有多大包括公共設施要重新劃定下來沒有那個路消防車都進不去那個騎腳踏車才能進去這都我們面臨的問題衛生的環境非常差我們就是進步的國家我們一點在鄉村也不進步所以我告訴你 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
7387.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
7410.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
你要百變這鄉村肌肉,你都要去給器官蒸熟了,跟這裡的人說土地換土地,你才有辦法成功,這第一步一定要有這樣的想法那我今天為什麼這麼講我們國土事務司長你們一定要配合尤其農業部他非常擔心農運團體講話,戶外農事長不用怕啦,台灣的土地還要很多 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
7415.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
7441.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
你要真的改造農村好就剛剛我講的第一步包括我們稍微講的基金要成立起來第二步我跟你講你現在看到幾個會遛毒以外的那個交流道的地區或是中藥聯絡的地區都是在鄉村區裡面你要去改變這個觀念現在這些人沒有錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
7444.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
7465.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
小地址、大電農,那這些都是做人看的,一些有這樣的情形,你應該在交流到那個地方要特別劃幾個地區跟鄉村區互相應用,你才有辦法提升鄉村的韌性但是你現在看我們高速公路聯絡,重要的聯絡道路都在農村區都不能動 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
7467.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
7476.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
第二你要怎麼活啊?因為交通現在變成人生必須的共進,你只要交通方便,大家都會援助回來。還有一點,人往高處跑,水往地處流,你交通不便,他要去外國參加還是要回家。 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
7488.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
7505.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
他只有有賺錢的機會只要生活過得好很多人回來鄉村可以把都市的人口拿過來所以就換了一個大的錯誤都市計畫內的農業道路六都的農業都市計畫農業區都可以改為建築 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
7506.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
7525.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
建地 商業用地 溫泉跟土地怎麼要蓋在那等一下說講人口不夠 哪裡不夠你沒有製造好的環境所以要過來這個要大膽嘗試 要大刀剋武我不曉得聽了這幾句話 你們鄉村長大你們的感受如何 跟我講一下這樣我說的你聽得懂嗎有清楚嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
7533.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
7558.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
我沒有選擇,你也跟我說一下,大家跟我說過,我沒有辦法判斷你這樣有選擇當時管,我都沒有管去做這個,這是內政部的管我跟你說,當時你要協調,很多都是在農業部擋掉啦我按外公社委,我們十幾年的民意代表,這個問題常常存在彭副主委、胡處長 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
7560.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
7581.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
還有我們的副市長真的要去溝通協調沒有一次成功的以前還有農村再生還有地方創生但是這些都是電話死你真的改造農村你一定要想好策略農村改造就像都市的都更一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
7583.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
7610.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
你可以各種狀況去設定如何跟生態配合這樣我們討論想不出來做得出來我覺得彭副主委這個責任很重大我想你以建築師出身為什麼請你來當副主委這跟地方暢生農村再生最重要土地的管理是在我們內政部國土管理室這邊所以三個要密切的配合才能把這個達成有沒有信心 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
7611.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
7636.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
我是很有信心啦我是很有信心,但是...二體的話,我們覺得可以嘛大家一起密切配合,然後...真的要這樣,不然你不能夠體啊,綁手綁腳不敢大刀剋斧,你農村再...農村提升什麼改造農村都不好真的要用新的思維去做啊,在這,國土計畫吧,再給我一下澳門農業縣85% |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
7639.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
7659.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
四山坡頂 阿堤修環坡阿我直接 我要特別跟農業部講你們那時候有一個 那個叫農水什麼?蓋農社的那個 蓋農社 蓋農社喔 那個農村局農田水 水保署啦不是不是 那個農水署跟不是 跟農社的鄉鎮啦 那不是你們在說的 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
7671.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
7694.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
農事的興建是我們去補啦,去補沒有啦,那有的你農業部裡面你管農要補喔,那一個資源永續利用,那是我們發明啦不是資源永續利用,我現在在總科我看一看苗栗縣85%的山坡地,我們一塊地三千平,換你們台北市的一公尺,十平換不去你說有比較嗎?這有公平嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
7698.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
7706.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
我覺得六都的市長也沒有什麼好他靠土地變更來賺錢的他一變更的話幾十億 幾十億的收入 那多好我們的鄉村其實叫做廢落 六都叫鄉村區 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
7713.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
7731.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
我常常在想苗栗縣的地方環境比較特殊它是地區環坡我一直在講您好,我來做成為一個地區環坡示範區你看到美國高級社區的話都是在地區環坡裡面這樣做出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
7733.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
7749.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
你看全政策就是在這樣地區環波做出來現在在山頂沒水、沒工人、沒人去做事一片荒蕪在那一邊你們給人家報索說今天農運團體抗爭沒水夠人家、沒米人家我們糧食生產過剩現在請說山頂沒人要去做 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
7757.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
7786 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
所以我在苗栗縣一直要推遲一個地區環保但是我發現本市長這裏就有一條農舍用地應既行配置以農地之地界線及臨街道路那是北京的農舍改善你山坡地怎麼可以這樣規範再來要兼備給你們改善但特殊地形者中央並沒有定義什麼叫做特殊地形者 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
7786.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
7809.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
你來新的本領要帶動啦人把人已經地球環保做到很好地了 外國都用地球環保是保底捏你正在限制我們農民使用現在沒人敢 越來越軟 還有農民耕種 還要種什麼食材要種 那都好笑 我要剪得漂亮高單價的東西不可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
7810.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
7814.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
市長我不是跟你計較啦 我已經摸了很多了嘛我一直在強調這一點 您給我定義清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
7827.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
7852.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
我們地方來頂頂自治法規我一家五十家一百家我有地方去開路水保都做得好你現在不用怕大家煩惱水保的問題自己的房子自己蓋水保他比誰還更重視你們都沒有煩惱一下排水系統都給你做得很好啊你為什麼這樣懷疑百姓因為你政府你給他限制你不要怕農營團體 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
7854.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
7865.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
現在農民整個財產都沒有,你限制到這裡去我是很良心真心的講我現在農業部這一條我還未再圖出來你那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
7869.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
7898.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
農村農舍的興建尤其我們地區環坡我帶你去看真的很漂亮尤其苗栗特殊台北下來40分鐘就到苗栗30分鐘到每個地方去這個是最好失散人口的地區像我天天搭高鐵上來又回去很近你老爸用這個觀念你用全國統一的一個思想每一個地方的地理環境不一樣啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
7900.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
7909.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
朋友之會 山坡地的這些我真的你跟農村改造這個都要改變公民路來都沒錢了 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
7910.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
7932.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
的確應該要因地制宜啦因為委員這苗栗比較多是散春嘛所以那個村落的狀態跟南部譬如說那個昭緯這邊他們嘉義這邊就比較集村所以村落的所有跟昭緯講給我多講一點他那邊也有那個地球環坡的山坡的地方也有他比較有山坡地那邊也有你那邊是哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
7934.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
7961.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
你還憑什麼跟我闖瘓我現在說什麼來那邊但是這個我一定要改進是我希望農業部要支持也希望國土署你們要喊我怎麼樣就要靠近路邊就要寄生的方針你整天都在想什麼我跟你講這個改造成功你要種什麼食材水果大家種的一定會變成農工隊出來把你地方弄得很漂亮 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
7962.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
7975.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
你如果要跟我說好要再叫你們做你們怕農運團你罵那都沒有種田的人在講話哪比在主會種田的你們這個政府真的要改進你剛才這個看法怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
7978.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
7990.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
現在國土計畫法是各縣市政府按照地方的發展需求每五年可以同盤檢討那如果認為有必要的話可以去做相關的規劃因為我們地區環保占85%你來看來很漂亮 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
7994.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
8021.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
真的很漂亮你去的話 你想說在苗栗圍上 到台北 到台中都會很近臺灣就在掃紙化 去一個飯廚 要賣什麼啊還是要做白粽那個退休的路人家有錢人 人家好人 什麼要賣 什麼人要拿回大鐵大廚的 讓給年輕人我們老人就在這邊 要看身子坐著高鐵上去所以這就跟觀念大家不一樣要賣給什麼人我們要收賣我們要站在 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
8024.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
8035.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
國土長治久安的立場你國土長治久安你把山坡定給都市人禮拜一到禮拜五登峰久定他們在賺錢他們在台北 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
8037.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
8066.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
在那個地啊你把我鄉下禮拜六禮拜天給他們去散步看秋山綠水啊我們得到什麼有啦休閒農業你休閒農業哎喲你思維要改啦這也是一種方向我們做散步地不可以像我這樣適度的開花這涉及到國土保安啦這國家的國土保安的話不差這一塊啦我講真的啦環境會比原來保持的更好啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
8067.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
8091.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
你怎麼常常在國土保安我們要站在公平正義啦我這就叫做公平正義嗎不是你告訴我都市 六都的都市內的農業區一直在改變變更多的自採區 商業區他們在賺錢 其他人要做農奴 去整理 整齊 再讓人家吃飯你為什麼不用這樣反悔 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
8093.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
8116.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
一個市委去判斷你都在顧主席人欸不然這樣整個越來越丟臉 越丟臉我主席管不了啦 抱歉你主席管不了 我跟你說怎樣整個衝就好了啦不然你這個保證叫我來做啦我真的講 觀念的市委要改變嘛我現在跟你說我們已經受到不公平的待遇了 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
8122.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
8149.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
啊你怎麼說這樣社會要改變啊就是不叫農地不要給我變農興都還好嗎那以前農地它現在怎麼可以變為住宅區、商業區去獨立、去暴力為什麼房價會差了那麼多為什麼會少數化所以我今天講齁你這個觀念不變大家平等不合我只在問你一句話 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
8151.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
8175.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
那什麼六都裡面的都市計畫類的農業區為什麼每一個人都在變?那不是天之教主嗎?問題不是六都的人,不是都市的農業區都要變沒有,都市計畫地區如果是農業區要變,也有相關的規範我知道有相關的規範,你跟我講都市在變我現在跟你講,講憑真理嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
8178.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
8206.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
一樣的你幫我留下來重點什麼都不能變大家公平你如果這樣思維你講話我一直很不滿這一點所謂的鄉村區我現在跟你指名就是灰六都叫做鄉村區你們都偏向有選票六都越多的地方你們越重視你們哪裡在關心鄉村區關心灰六都的 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
8209.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
8232.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
我這個一定堅持,這個是叫做不公平生意國土保安大家都會去做一樣的國土保安,六都跟會六都的都要一樣你們只顧他們賺錢,六省的要整個人挖港口怎麼他們可以變,我們都不能變連四都的利用都不可以還有一個是 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
8234.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
8260.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
現在都市的房價會高把這一些開放出來自然的房價就降低了台灣不需要那麼多米以前你糧食生產過剩了天天再講糧食安全以前的觀念帶來現在現在的糧食你們一人成名多少你們外銷虧損多少你拿去你去做那個照明做了多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
8263.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
8287.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
這個觀念要改啊 不能這樣稀稀地啊 好不好 謝謝好 我給你兩倍的時間 好 感謝好 那我們下一位請賴瑞榮委員質詢那賴委員質詢後 我們是不是休息十分鐘 讓觀點人休息一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
8288.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
8312.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
好 謝謝召委 請彭副主委跟主計總署的黃處長好 請副主委跟黃處長副主委 請教你區域均衡發展 城鄉發展 這個很重要那我先問一下 這一次藍白所主導的這個採劃法的修法我認為其他擴大的縱北青藍的這個狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
8313.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
8329.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
甚至有很多縣市中南部縣市會實質的補助會減少那我們看到從初估的數字裡面特別是拿到416億而高雄拿到245億這個差距相當大那台南只拿到163億而在征服裡面的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
8330.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
8352.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
台南高雄最低 49不到50那台南是50.4包括在縣的部分屏東縣也增幅也只有109也是最少的所以從這一次這個修法我個人認為這會讓縱北青南的狀況更加的嚴重我們長期以來希望南北均衡發展讓台灣是一個好的一個整體的發展但是這次的裁要法修法我認為是這樣的發展 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
8354.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
8382.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
副主委你認同我的看法嗎是 我認同委員的看法但是我們現在做這個大南方新矽谷其實也是試圖從產業面跟生活生活圈的改善配套措施的改善來嘗試著去做彌補對 但是這樣的採劃法的修法事實上是造成了更加的重北侵難光台北直接拿到416億甚至原先在修法的時候我看到原來國民黨黨團版本還有首都直接加3% |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
8383.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
8387.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
副主委你同意這種看法嗎首都直接加3%台北直接加3%這合理嗎對 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
8390.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
8408.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
合理還不合理 你認同嗎不合理不合理嗎如果是這樣的話 那首都 那一來高雄那高雄馬上直接加3% 對不對就是說台北已經佔盡了相當多優勢我們盡量努力的減緩南部就是鄉村往城市集中減緩南部往北部集中這個趨勢了結果這樣的採劃法 反而加劇了這樣一個趨勢我們認為這個是有很有嚴重的問題的 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
8414.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
8435.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
副署委同意這樣的看法嗎對對對所以我們對我們要從另外一個角度是這個部分可能我希望後面的部分到我們努力的各種方式來做處理啦但是無論如何將來一定還是要把它努力再平衡回來不然對於這個南北之間的差距會持續擴大我們再來看一下114年度中央對於地方的補助款一般性的是2051億然後 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
8439.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
8441.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
這個計劃性的是2914億2501億跟2911億總數是5412億但是5412億其實就有3753億被拿走了那整個補助款實質上是減少了69%這個下一頁只是減少了69%那 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
8466.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
8494.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
那個副主委或者主席總署這邊同意這樣的看法嗎可能組總這邊會比較更明確一點五千是國家的財源就這麼財餅就這麼大嘛那你本來你補助下去是五千四百一十二億不管是一般型或計劃型就這麼多你現在被切出去切到的地方切出了三千七百五十三億那你未來除非你能夠長出更多新的財源但是有找到其他的 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
8495.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
8517.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
固定性的裁員 不然你的餅就是這麼大而已你一定是勢必將來會影響到補助嘛 所以行政院才會說有些部分要稍微暫緩 就是50%要暫緩嘛是這樣的影響嘛 是嘛所以這樣的狀況下 以高雄來看的話 它原先的今年度有687億的一個補助款如果照著這個新的藍白通過的裁判法的話 它會減少 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
8519.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
8535.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
刪掉69%的話 我會減少474億 只剩下213億也就是說 即使你這個裁要法表面上講 你增加了245億但是因為你從中央拿走了69%之後 實質上高雄會減少了229億副主委這樣公平嗎 這樣對高雄公平嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
8542.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
8549.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
不怎麼公平是不是有比較詳細的說明嗎那個主席總書記要不要說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
8550.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
8576.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
跟委員報告一下就是我們剛剛在提到就是這次財劃法的修正要釋出這個財源3753億的部分那這個部分怎麼來做處理因為相關的我們行政院這邊會會同相關部會還有地方政府再進一步去做我希望將來要公平的對待好不好就是因為還有政府還是有些調配的比例我現在講的是完全 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
8577.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
8601.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
一視同仁那個啦但現在整個財化法修起來是重北輕南那未來的部分我還希望中央對於中南部的支持不能夠減少啦不要讓這個差距不斷的持續來擴大但我們希望有機會把這個財化法重新再修回來啦因為這個財化法其實過得非常的衝突其實照理說這樣子為什麼過去這20幾年來沒辦法修過其實在過去馬英九總統時代想要修也修不過啊為什麼 因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
8601.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
8624.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
難度很高你要整合中央跟地方整合各縣市找到一個公平的很不容易所以很難取得共識所以必須要好好溝通硬是用這樣強行的通過我認為是眾北親南甚至眾南親綠裡面我看藍營的縣市其實都比綠營縣市來的好這樣充滿了政治性的一個修法這絕對是買下了台灣競爭力未來一個很大的一個貨端 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
8625.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
8641.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
我認為對於整個區域經濟發展對台灣競爭力都是一個負面的影響所以我們希望未來有機會再把它重新調回來好好的討論財化法該討論但是不是用這種粗暴的方式直接通過對於中南部更加不利對於其他的一些縣市更加不利 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
8642.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
8667.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
好謝謝 那因為時間很有限 我再問一下謝謝主委總處長可以休息一下離島建設基金原來的時候這個電價的部分因為都是用發電的部分那當時有欠了1000億就是要給台電 現在台電很辛苦現在又要忙又要忙 不吃草不喝水現在還要台電能夠穩健經營下去這個1000億的部分有沒有可能歸還給歸電給台電 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
8671.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
8700.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
是那個跟委員報告現在因為我們也有跟這個經濟部這邊有就是討論過其實現在我們大家共同的看法就是還是希望能夠透過這個追加預算然後由立法院這邊來做審議所以大概也不是走離島基金這樣的一個方式那離島基金其實在過去它已經含榮在那個1000億裡面的一些額度裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
8701.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
8730.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
實際上在討論這個部分其實我們還是希望183年度所以如果當時的政府因為他油價的上漲因為我們禁止他調漲台電調漲電價而導致他的虧損那如果中央因為這幾年經營狀況不錯有盈餘的部分補助給他的時候那整體的思考也在裡面了所以用這樣的方式是最好的方式但是如果在藍白所多數的國會仍然遲遲的不支持的狀況下的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
8731.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
8748.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
那這樣一千億要不要還如果你全部都不給的話你全部都不給他錢又不給他漲電價然後那欠這一千億那是不是應該審慎思考對所以我們還是期待就是因為立法院的刪減是不是能夠再請立法院大院這邊能夠再我們希望副主委還是要審慎思考 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
8749.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
8772.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
那最後一個也謝謝啟京的部分地方創生我覺得主委包括過去的總主委都很支持大家很支持啟京地方創生請加速推動但是我還是要提醒除了啟京的地方創生之外包括比較山區的東高雄這邊的從祁山美濃六龜甲仙山林內門茂林桃園辣馬下人口都是不斷在流失的 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
8773.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
8798.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
因為他的交通不便因為他產業發展比較不容易所以人口一直在流失我希望國發會加大力道來協助東高雄這些的部分好不好我們持續在輔導當中一方面地方創生協助一方面應該支持更多的交通建設進去讓他進出更便利才能夠把人口留下來那另外一方面產業也要支持進去讓東高雄比較靠近山區的這邊的鄉親不用一定要離開他們的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
8801.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
8819.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
居住地點而必須要到城市或者到中北部才有比較好的機會我希望國發會要加大這個力道交通建設產業建設跟地方創生是三條三支箭都要並行好嗎好謝謝副主席好謝謝賴瑞榮委員那我們現在先休息10分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
8869.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
8869.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
謝謝大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
9111.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
9113.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
谢谢观看 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
9224.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
9231.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
感谢观看 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
9254.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
9254.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
谢谢大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
9431.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
9458.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
好 我們繼續開會那下一位請 已經有經過十分鐘完整休息 現在戰力十足的邱志偉委員發言沒有休息十分鐘 我戰力更更大 不減 絲毫不減 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
9459.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
9488.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
但是不管戰力再多強這個論證還是要以理這個行政立法互相尊重但是監督的角色還是不能改變但是監督的過程一定要很理性這個不能咆哮不能噴口水不能問一些這個國家機密我先請教這個農業部我們胡市長好 請農業部那也要控制分配 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
9491.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
9503.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
禮職要契合啦不能禮職氣壯禮職要契合委員好這個五分鐘先開始這個昨天有一個人問問說這個我們的公糧儲備 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
9507.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
9530.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
我們大家都知道工廠儲備會有動態性的檢討那一般大概是8萬到10萬之間您當過農糧署署長所以我們工廠儲備大概一定的SOP大概是7萬到10萬左右那未來有沒有可能會增加 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
9531.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
9556.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
這個儲備的量其實我們一直都超過我們本來安全存量一年是30萬但是像目前的話是75.7萬已經將近8個月就是只有公糧部包括民間的存糧量沒有問題量的儲備我想這個行之有年而且我想農業部是這方面專業但是你相關的配售點 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
9558.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
9587.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
當然是國家機密啊對對不對對這是國安的問題這個國家安全這個糧食也是國家安全啊是國家安全物資如果有個人發文跟你要發文跟你要你會不會同意如果是國會議員的話我們會用密件因為如果按照那個是可以供應給國會議員的話我們當然也要給但是要用密件處理你要用極機密處理好喔對你這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
9589.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
9613.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
這個怕他們馬上就習近平那邊有一份所以你們在處理這些的資料的時候要相當謹慎是相當謹慎這個不要說他一個一個公文給你你就一個一個密字件的公文很多對你應該要把它更高層級如果如果他把這資料外洩 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
9614.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
9638.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
他有沒有相關的責任?當然有所以我是提醒你如果他後續又給你邀資料你們要小心應對喔是 謝謝你的提醒千萬不能把這個呃配售的點的資料啊我要這個對岸敵對勢力又拿一份這個萬萬 我萬萬不行喔我們不能接受齁對好那這個所謂的 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
9640.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
9665.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
農村再生計畫是預算有沒有受到影響我們當然受到影響影響多少我們本來在三年前我們當時是給我們一千多個農村是八萬八億對不起兩年前是六億那去年是十一億那到目前到今年我們才撥出去1.7億所以事實上受到相當有沒有受到財化化的影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
9667.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
9689.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
會受到影響影響受到影響目前我們還沒有辦法 但是我們現在只能夠撥一半那這個 這一檔動山的影響是這比喻算減少多少會減少大概有4到5億左右4到5億那你現在只剩4到5億來做相關的農村再生計畫是今年比前幾年大概只剩一半對 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
9691.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
9697.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
那你要怎麼推動農村再生計畫所以我們就把過去啊已經我們目前已經 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
9698.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
9721.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
合訂的這些農村的社區有1084個那當中啊 尤其我們輔導了好幾年的話我們就暫時那一些就就由我們培根計畫通過這些計畫本來已經都準備好了大家有一些這個農村已經在申請了對不對 已合訂了因為被凍山林就沒有辦法撥下去他就沒辦法執行嘛 對不對對 我們就要選擇比較當初我當初我審查農業撥育論這筆經費是無意全數通過喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
9727.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
9752.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
對,一直都是這樣子簡烈數是零,山東數是零這非常感謝在經濟委員會我們有各黨派的立委在就莫名其妙在草野學生被幾個完全沒有來過經濟委員會的我不曉得是誰,我不方便講講了我就生氣了他完全不曉得農村的需求就大筆一揮隨便亂砍你蔡奇愛在那邊發脾氣 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
9754.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
9778.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
沒有經過這個思考就情緒性、報復性這樣子煽動預算我覺得未來立法院預算審查制度要改經濟委員會中心主主義一定要確實到位要把委員會通過的這個預算決議沒有除非保留到院會處理預算在委員會通過就不能再更改了 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
9780.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
9793.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
結果我們通過預算在抄襲上莫名被改的這個面目全非淪為預算淪為暴政治報復或者政治鬥爭的一個工具受害的是所有的人民的對對 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
9795.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
9807.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
所以我覺得相關的預算層的制度要改你一定要落實這個委員會中心準時間夠了嗎沒有 還有一分鐘好啦 市長謝謝來那個國安會 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
9813.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
9835.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
國安會副主委今天您跟高副主委這個編分兩路是就是說行政院的台美經貿小組來因應川普的相關貿易的這個作為包括關稅是這個貴會是誰代表是主委代表還是您還是高是主委跟高副所以你對這部分比較不了解 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
9836.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
9843.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
我當然看到相關的報告就是說你們要看美國對其他我們主要的貿易競爭國的相關的關稅的狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
9848.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
9877.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
像說台灣如果用貿易加權平均關稅台灣是1.7 美國是2.2那日本是1.9 南韓是8.4那中國是3如果用簡單平均明目關稅的話台灣是6.5 美國是3.3日本是3.7南韓是13.4你們有沒有經過沙盤推演他比較這個美國可能用貿易加權平均關稅還是用簡單平均明目關稅來作為一個這個相關貿易手段 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
9878.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
9907.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
是 這個跟委員報告因為委員都要求我們要很精準的回答是不是容我再整理一些資料再跟委員報告沒關係啦 我等一下去財政問你們好 謝謝 謝謝委員好 那另外啊一個 因為我通常都很準時但是今天我們招委特別容許我再多講兩分鐘啊是這個我還沒有講 不過我現在容許了謝謝 謝謝萬分感謝我下次當招我再還給你 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
9908.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
9923.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
那個離島售電差額這個部分離島基金呢離島基金你們未來要怎麼樣去看待離島基金會不會撥補台電你們這個國會有沒有立場這個今天執密離島是離島是對是我們國土對你未來這個會不會由離島基金來售電來補貼 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
9937.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
9956.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
目前還是希望就是說用最佳預算把一千億又透過如果最佳預算又沒過呢目前的狀態是這樣子那我覺得我覺得按照這個目前這個藍白的策略他們不會過不會過你們會不會考慮用離島基金來撥會嗎對那因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
9962.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
9979.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
我跟委員報告就是說因為原來這個要追加這個一千億裡面其實已經包含了好幾項不同的差價尤其是加上離島的它其實也放在那個追加的預算裡面你不能否認這是一個方案選項之一嘛 對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
9980.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
9993.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
這是一個選項之一嘛如果不是選項他不會拿出來討論嘛那你這個順位順位是應該是如果順位還是以最佳預算來處理的話那如果不成的話這是不是一個選項 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
9996.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
10013.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
這個可能還要好幾個國會在演繹目前沒有辦法直接跟你們回答我想很多事情也不能勉強回答你不太清楚的事情大南方新矽谷的推動方案在我們經濟發展會議總統主持經濟發展會議這些各分區的計畫是誰來做管考 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
10020.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
10044.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
目前大南方新矽谷我們是請國科會這邊在做主導所以像明天可能就會開一個是國科會國發會是在統合六大就是我們整個的六大的產業對所以你針對大南方新矽谷是我跟那個蔡宇都一起在這個大南方新矽谷裡面是所以主政還是國科會 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
10046.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
10056.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
是 主政是國科會那我們是在匆忙協助推動整個的推動方案好 謝謝謝謝謝謝委員好 謝謝謝謝邱志偉委員好那我們下一位請謝怡鳳召委好 謝謝主席我想要請國發會的副主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
10074.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
10098.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
好請國發會副主委你們國發會說要促進中張投的這個精密智慧新核心那請問這個需要跨部會的合作然後以及要給予就是精密工業精密機械產業有新的技術那你們要怎麼做是 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
10101.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
10113.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
目前這個是由經濟部主政然後整個方案目前在行政院不是你們也有嗎?你們說要組什麼經濟機械的團隊嗎?整體的一個發展那當然在推動方面我們也會積極的促進經濟部跟相關的部會一起來做整合團隊的那個進行的如何? |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
10126.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
10151.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
目前好像方案還在行政院方案還在行政院經濟部他們已經有年齡了那方案還在行政院所以整合不順利目前不順利是嗎 進一步的中部對我們所有部會其實基本上都會參與到所有的這個六大產業跟生活圈的計畫那 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
10155.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
10174.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
對 目前已經有整合了就是而且我們也開過我們也為了就是國發會這邊也為了精密中藏雲頭的精密智慧新核心也開過一次的整合會議那那次我們也特別有特別請那個經濟部這邊能夠後續能夠接手然後把這些後續的主政的事務接下去 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
10174.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
10191.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
除了技術以外還有就是人力勞工的問題我們知道去年底的這個人力調查看到了就是工業及服務業的工作職缺6個月以上的缺工數有高達6.6萬個那其中 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
10195.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
10216.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
以我們中階技術的層次最高是怎樣缺工的人口數是缺工的勞工數是4萬個那在這個缺工又沒有技術然後在整合不力的情況下我們的中張頭的精密智慧新核心要怎麼進行 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
10222.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
10248.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
我們在做這個盤點的時候基本上我們也去整合了尤其是勞動部還有各個不同的人力需求那包含了跟譬如說教育部這邊能夠有的可能培養出來的人才然後跟我們可能對外能夠找到多少的人力那甚至移工我們都有去做討論但是目前這個資料就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
10249.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
10267.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
有三個做法一個就是人才培育一個就是本國的勞動力用本國勞動力來調補補師那另外就是找跨國的勞動力可是在本國的勞動力我就說你們在協調的時候跟勞動部協調的時候其實我們從過去幾次的缺工的這樣子的經驗看起來就是勞動 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
10269.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
10286.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
就是說缺工的就是說沒有工作的勞工跟需要工作的勞工是沒有辦法立即性的做替代的那可能需要一個轉介以及非常長的這個職缺的這個那現在目前 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
10287.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
10306.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
如果就是說即便是在精密機械產業裡面他們也有不同細節的這個技術性的勞工那可以做這個可能做油壓的就不一定可以做模具這相關的這沒有辦法替代那如果今天做油壓的勞工 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
10309.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
10325.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
目前正在五星價那還有沒有麻煩馬上去替代成為做這個我們模具的呢有沒有辦法那在這個情況下如果我們沒有辦法進行高度替代性的時候我們就沒有辦法解決我們這個產業缺工的問題啊那這怎麼處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
10328.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
10354.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
是 當然這個跟我們的人才的訓練還有轉型就是說原來的工作跟不同的工作之間他們怎麼樣去做這些專業訓練的養成我覺得這可能確實是我們可以跟勞動部這邊再做進一步的調節尤其是有技術性的這種中階的勞動需要再訓練是不是 它是沒有辦法只是馬上的進行替代的情況下那你要怎麼處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
10355.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
10376.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
這個部分你們一定要去就是趕快去做準備不然整個我們要做什麼精密機械新核心這個根本看起來在技術以及人才都沒有辦法支援的情況下我相信這是很困難的好不好我們會特別注意這個方面的這個轉就職業之間的轉型怎麼去銜接謝謝我現在再請農業部的次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
10387.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
10413.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
請次長是委員好次長好啊你是農糧出身的對我想要請教你一個問題是就是我們去年啊那個部長跟我說只要今年度的這個口蹄疫拔針豬瘟拔針的時候我們是不是就可以把稻草進口到日本去對那但是要先跟他們談判 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
10414.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
10439.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
阿現在怎樣 進行得成今年五月的話我們會被WOAH宣布為我們是豬瘟的清淨國本來口提我們早就已經是清淨國了那豬瘟是今年五月預定要宣布宣布之後我們就可以馬上跟日本談那你看咧 情況咧我們非常樂觀因為稻草還有生鮮的豬肉我們都可以賣過去阿蜜咧 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
10440.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
10457.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
米本來就可以賣了我是說去年喔日本大缺米我們台灣的米我們在台灣我們在提倡就是說不同的米糧那也希望建立品牌我們的米有沒有辦法輸入我們稻米最近這幾年出口到日本是5000到7000公噸 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
10459.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
10479.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
那今年我們1月2月到3月20號之前我們已經出口了1500公噸所以我們非常樂觀那能不能協助我們將畫有品牌的米能夠輸日是 日本的米它管制得很嚴首先要拿到日本政府的配額配額如果拿不到的話必須要用每一公斤342塊日圓的關稅 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
10483.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
10495.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
賣給他們所以這樣的話大概相當於台幣77塊左右的關稅那如果拿得到關稅就是跟他們的進口商配額的話我們當然可以出去不過也是相當高的成本 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
10496.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
10522.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
那什麼樣子降低成本降低成本的話因為今年對啊因為你一定要如果說那今年我們在糧食足夠的情況下那是不是應該替我們的就是稻米的那個農民能夠找到另外一條出路呢可以可以就剛才委員所關心的這個如果彰化的農民的話我們會先幫他驗這個日本要進口的話要驗600多種這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
10525.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
10550.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
農藥還有重金屬的殘留通過的話才可以出去那當然要優先拿到配合 這個我們會來協助商化那邊以前是米倉從清朝以後就非常有名我是說如果就是說在我們國內糧食足夠的情況下那是不是對於希望說做進口出口的這樣子的一個農民可以給予他們這樣子的協助我們會全力協助 這個沒有問題好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
10555.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
10559.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
好謝謝伊崩召委來下一位請麥玉珍委員質詢謝謝主席有請國發會的副主委請副主委委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
10585.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
10593.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
主委好 副主委好我想要請教一下我們國發會在推動地方政策將134個鄉鎮區列為優先的推動區但是在108年到現在仍有30個整位提案接近三成案子主動撤案或審查未過 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
10611.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
10623.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
請教一下又過了一年了目前30個案進度如何還有很多的少數的案子主動撤案審查不通過這個是可以說明嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
10625.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
10650.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
跟委員報告因為這個我們一開始有一個設定就是說有一些優先的鄉村他們是比較偏鄉比較落後然後比較急著需要的那當然那是在一開始我們設定的時候那後來我們有改採另外一個方案叫做多元提案也就是說本來是由鄉鎮公所去提案那當然就會有一個優先順序那後來我們用多元提案的方式就 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
10651.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
10665.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
讓各個地方政府他們能夠主動的去提案這是第一點那第二點就是說他們在做這個提案裡面其實有時候會成功有時候不一定會成功其實是跟著我們整個的福島的 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
10666.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
10683.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
團隊然後我們都會有請委員去認真的去所以我們想要知道的是說不是說你的過程如何所以我們要的是效率如何有沒有落實因為我們看到就是沒有落實嘛也沒有達到這個效益所以我們才要去再請教 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
10685.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
10700.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
那這30幾個地方基本上也有一些有對剩下29個剩下29個是沒有地方創生計畫但是有一些是有我們的青培站因為我們看到就是在110年推動到就是我們青年培力的工作站的計畫因為我本身也是在做社區一直過來的在我們就是我還有 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
10714.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
10722.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
可以領到就是社區的那個菁英獎所以我覺得對這一塊我很重視因為看到的就是在112年我們已經投入超過4億的這個4億的公帑但是我們是要如何才不會達到說我們投入那麼多錢的效率在哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
10739.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
10742.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
還有促成我們真的我們的青年真的回鄉創意還是說就是計畫就是創意就是有這個計畫有這些青年來去回去回鄉但是後續發展呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
10755.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
10758.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
他們真的是成功了嗎?或者是說有在監督嗎?還真正的生根了嗎?這個是有沒有的績效的評估?還是就是只放了給東姐就沒有啊?青年就沒有後續發展,也沒有後續的輔導的績效在哪裡?不會,我們不會東姐就沒有啊,因為這些的 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
10777.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
10801.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
這些的清培我們希望他們能夠長期就在那邊所以我們把清培的這個過程其實也分了好幾個階段那不同的階段呢譬如說我們有進階組或者是衍生讓他們把他們在那個地方的熱情能夠持續下去那也希望他們繼續對但是我現在要的不是說你在做的過程因為時間有限我要的是說你的績效的評估因為我們沒有看到 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
10802.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
10806.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
介紹的評估或者後續的發展真的是深耕嗎還有就是說我們因為為了要讓年輕人回到鄉下這個好意但是說他們有深耕嗎還說說地方跟中央就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
10819.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
10821.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
沒有連結就斷層了這樣子我們的這些年輕人好不容易鼓勵他們回去到最後就中央就是說我的計畫結束了也沒有該地方連結這個年輕人也沒辦法去發展我們沒有看到啊根本也不知道不會 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
10837.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
10852.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
我們有比如說我們有專案辦公室我們有北中南東的輔導中心然後我們有清培其實這個整個的脈絡其實是一直都一直都延續下來的那剛剛有一些如果委員要一些比較量化的一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
10853.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
10870.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
數字的話我們會後再提供給委員但是我有一個比較自信的就是我現場去看到很多的譬如說我們的親朋友或是我們的年輕人其實我看到那邊我發現一件事情就是他們都很有自信的在跟沒錯但是你那個數據或者是說需要去表揚或者讓他們看到或者你們的網站或者網路我們沒有看到說有後續就是成功發展的讓我們覺得說我們這集開了去 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
10883.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
10885.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
我們會把這些成果再提供給委員那也有一些網站有一些的影片 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
10900.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
10922.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
其實都是很好的成功案例這個之後我們再提供給委員做參考對 就是因為看到我們在地方創生了以國土屬的計畫也是有一個就是整合 落差的整合但是我們看到就是說依據我們國土計畫的制度設計未來所有的土地使用都要收到就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
10924.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
10951.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
功能分區的管制所以看到目前的規劃就是未來的發展區面積很大所以這個部分的話我們如何讓我們年輕人反省的團隊他們可以應用到還有我們這個規劃落差真的是落實因為我們沒有看到這個部分所以我希望說我們的政府的資源我們要配置 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
10952.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
10956.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
要經營 還有第二個就是我們產業發展的資源也不足這個部分還有我們的地方的建設還有設備這樣給我們的年輕人回去有夠嗎 我們的監督的評估還有我們的地方的策略 還有我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
10972.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
10977.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
政府中央要連結就是說找不到人接著說這個是誰的在演藝這邊那邊到來我們的年輕人都羞大所以我們希望這個部分我們的國發會這邊有具體的有評估有這個依據所以給我一份 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
10994.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
11007.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
讓我了解我們要怎麼樣去協助因為在社區跟地方創生跟年輕人這個是我一直都有在跟這個地方的合作好 謝謝委員謝謝 國華會就加強連的時間跟本會委員都一樣來 下一位請吳麗華委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
11027.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
11033.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
謝謝主席有請國土署徐彥新副署長好請副署長委員午安午安我們的國土計劃法在修法之後呢延後了6年所以在國土計劃法的第45條呢也做了這樣的一個修正文字也就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
11055.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
11074.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
直轄市縣市主管機關 要在直轄市縣市國土計畫公告實施後的10年內依中央主管機關指定之日期 以並公告國土功能分區圖所以在這邊先請教一下副署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
11075.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
11101.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
除了南投縣以外21個直轄市縣市政府都已經把國土功能分區圖報請內政部的國土計畫審議委員會來審議那請教一下審了沒有報告我們陸續都在審然後有9個已經審議通過了好 那請教一下那9個審議完成的修正核定之後可以公告嗎 會公告嗎現在我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
11104.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
11121.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
全部一起通告政策是這樣子政策全部一起公告法規也是這樣子定的所以是說10年內公告沒有因為就是現在還有陸續在審的還有你剛剛講的南投所以要全部22個是 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
11125.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
11153.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
全部審完一併公告那我現在就是要來關心這個問題我請教一下內政部有來核定補助原民地區的鄉村地區這樣的一個經費就是所謂的鄉規從110年度那你們最後一筆113年度的最後一筆呢是仁愛鄉對不對那我請教一下今年會繼續補助嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
11157.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
11174.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
會繼續會繼續補助那我再請教一下那沒有審議沒有核定國土功能分區那這些鄉村地區整體規劃能執行嗎因為如果還沒通過就是適用區域計畫法的相關的審議跟開發許可的機制那這個機制因為大家都有鄉規那鄉規 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
11176.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
11200.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
一旦經過這個地方鄉村剛才講地方創生等等東西都會整合在一起對空間有一定的看法的規範那這就會是我們不管是地方跟中央都會依這個東西來做相關的審查所以意思就是說從110年度獲得核定補助的其實他也已經完成了也結案了那請教一下副署長他下一步要幹嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
11201.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
11220.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
你說接下來要做那個那就要經過公告之後我們會有另外一塊下一個步驟的通盤檢討那請教副署長那公告什麼時候您這樣看就我們立場應該是越快越好因為他說10年內公告嘛所以全部22個走完就會公告 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
11222.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
11245.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
對 如果大家都在這個過程中可以公告我們就公告副組長我要讓您了解一下我上個禮拜我有去萊義高中借一個教室去主持一個會議可能您也很清楚知道我們原住民有很多很多的土地問題而且非常難解那這些人其實引頸氣盼 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
11247.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
11265.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
我們國土計畫法如果按照原定5月1號上路就可以解套但是呢他們對於延後6年又要繼續等6年非常的無奈因為他們等了很久那幾戶人家很特別因為呢他們那個地方都沒有所有權那更何況水電表 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
11270.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
11296.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
講難聽一點都是私階也沒有門牌號很辛苦可是呢我現在特別講一下這個仁愛鄉因為這是我上上個禮拜我也去做會刊因為南投縣仁愛鄉他是最後一個他是在紀錄上他最後一筆拿到鄉規那這是他的公墓在例行的一個公墓那他們的部落的村長所有的人呢 領長都一起來拜託為什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
11299.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
11311.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
因為您看一下這個他的土地建物的查詢資料他這個使用的分區他叫森林區他叫森林區那您也很清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
11312.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
11331.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
按照我們非都變更邊定的原則這種森林區是萬萬絕對沒有辦法變更為殯葬用地所以他們當初一直在等這個鄉規啊國土公門分區啊就一直等他們過去想要申請我們的殯葬量能計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
11332.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
11345.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
一直沒有辦法 就在等這個國土計畫是他們唯一的解套 完了要等六年 然後呢 這個殯葬量能提升計畫編到114 也不知道有沒有下一期 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
11346.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
11364.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
其實這樣的問題在原鄉地區很多很多原本以為5月1號就要上路的國土計劃法可以讓這些歷史塵蚵一一的被解決掉完了就沒辦法所以呢我請教一下就是副署長像這樣的一個狀況您覺得怎麼辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
11370.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
11377.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
這個案子的詳細的狀況例如他還有什麼敏感什麼東西我比較不清楚這部分個案部分我們可以會後我們去 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
11379.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
11384.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
我們請我們組裡面 科裡面去看是怎麼樣可以去幫忙那就是來我辦公室看怎麼協助解決嗎可以嗎可以好 謝謝那副處長我請您看一個圖一樣就是國土計畫法它在第15條它有寫直轄市縣市國土計畫每5年通盤檢討一次這個是沒有修的但是你看這個圖 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
11403.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
11408.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
直轄市縣市國土計畫已經公告在110年已經公告那現在問題來了國土公能分區延後就是到120年那剛才我講的相規從110年就開始做了 直到現在 您說也會繼續補助 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
11420.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
11437.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
好那現在呢按照我剛才念的直轄市縣市國土計畫通盤檢討沒有修所以他是維持每5年檢討一次所以預計他是會落在115年我現在就想問那鄉村地區整體規劃他到底是要等120年的還是等115年應該是全面實施之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
11444.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
11458.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
所以我就是想要來請教一下副署長您的意見我認為是為了不打劫也不違法我是希望內政部就乾脆就以115通檢來做一個標準 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
11461.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
11489.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
我希望各縣市國土功能分區先到先審可以先公告核定那第二個部分就是我也希望內政部這邊殯葬量能提升計畫能夠持續的提報編列經費因為很多地方都還很辛苦特別我提到原住民族地區從日本人來從室內葬要在戶外葬戶外葬之後土葬現在又要改成火葬 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
11489.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
11507.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
我們其實是一直在適應國家的法令要有一個適應期但是我們也希望我們的政府能夠體恤也能夠給我們繼續的來等候我們所有的人都願意跟上政府的政策計畫副組長這樣可以嗎有關這個先審先核定因為剛剛已經講在法裡面的規定我們也必須要依法決定那可以以115為基準嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
11518.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
11537.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
應該現在法院沒辦法去做這件事情但是因為已經有相規指導的跟我們區計在審查的相關的這個配套跟部分那個署長也有指示我們組裡面去看去盤整看是這些指引跟準則跟地方線是第一線的問題這部分我們來做調節應該可以解決 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
11540.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
11566.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
一部分的問題好 那我希望這兩個部分我聽起來就是有不錯的一個態度的表示那我們就希望到辦公室來看怎麼樣來解決這些遇到困難的部落好不好是好 謝謝副署長 謝謝主席好 謝謝吳立華吳委員然後再請我們這個國都署針對這個案件看能不能用相規的方式來做一個解答好不好好 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
11567.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
11583.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
來下一位請廖先祥廖委員質詢好謝謝主席麻煩我們一樣國土署我們徐副署長好請國土署 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
11591.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
11615.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
委員吳安副主任吳安那我想請教一下這個我們的礦區民眾居住權這件事情在上一次選舉的時候有被充分討論嗎那我們國督署在陸陸續續都有發表一些可能要這個可能不要汙名化或者是說協助他們爭取應有的居住權這件事情可能到去年我還有看到相關的新聞媒體報導在披露 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
11617.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
11638.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
那我想確認一下因為我的選區除了我們總統的老家有礦區外其實我的選區各個選區各個行政區都很多礦區啦許多人關心相關的進程不曉得礦區權益這個的編定的進度最近有沒有什麼新的消息因為這還是要尊重新北市啦那新北市你們會有原則嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
11641.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
11663.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
相關審查都已經都有原則然後新北市會我們會去到府服務之後新北市會依程序如果要送上來的我會送上來進行接下來的審議程序所以你們給地方我們現在的邏輯方針是先請地方我們有頒布一套辦法嗎那套辦法叫什麼有頒布了嗎哪時候頒布的 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
11665.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
11692.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
因為地方政府如果要辦理土地編定的話他們一般來說都會希望愈發有據嘛而不是說我今天想變什麼就變什麼有沒有一個指導原則之類的指導原則的名稱或是哪時候頒布的有相關訊息嗎因為可能我沒有注意到沒有注意到我沒有看到沒有注意到這樣子作業須知是我有頒布然後可是他還是要依那個計畫來呈報那新北市在他也有他計畫呈報的相關的部分這樣我們可以整理出來也跟新北市一樣所以是針對礦區嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
11694.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
11713.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
是 一定在問的部分 相關的東西就是針對礦區 後續如果說沒有礦區的使用那我們相關的一個變更的指導原則已經出來了那提供給地方政府 那後續地方政府你們希望地方政府主動來辦理變更編訂然後之後再 方案再送到我們內部政府來審議 方向是這樣子嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].start |
11716.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].end |
11736.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].text |
目前他如果是閒置,然後礦業主管經費,那這個地方就可以處理了地方政府就可以自行編訂了,也不用再送到內政部好,那我後續就來跟地方政府確認一下他有沒有收到這個東西,那後續他要去怎麼執行那目前有任何一個地方政府有完成這個變更編訂的嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[416].start |
11739.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].end |
11759.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].text |
蠻多的都已經在做了有在做也有發佈的也已經有發佈的了好那謝謝謝謝我們副組長那我後續再來跟地方政府來請教那另外一個就是我再麻煩我們的我們國發會好國發會我們彭副主任副組長你也留步一下請副主委可能農業部也一起好了 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].start |
11761.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].end |
11772.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].text |
副主委 副主委不好意思 請教一下因為我們地方創生啊就是我們的業務嘛那地方創生就牽扯到土管的問題那土地管制成呢是我們青年朋友要回去 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].start |
11773.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].end |
11799.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].text |
這個要做不管是農業發展相關的產業的時候會遇到一個很大問題就是使用分區的管制嘛那使用分區的管制包括這個生活最需要的最基本的可能廁所或者是一些說什麼小朋友去玩要一個洗手台等等的這些可能在我們現有的這個區域計劃法裡面可能農地上面都是不被允許的他可能都要去另外去做相關的申請 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].start |
11800.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].end |
11821.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].text |
那其實這相關的申請也都會造成一些成本的增加也會增加它的一些困難性就是一個抗力一個阻力啦那我們這部分有沒有針對地方創生地方朋友所遇到可能在農牧用地相關比較嚴格的使用分區上面遇到的困難來跟我們的農業部或是內政部來做一些討論來做一些相關的放寬 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].start |
11824.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].end |
11840.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].text |
是 我跟委員報告因為我們地方創生整個的多元提案的程序裡面其實針對不同的個案其實都有一個主管的部會那在他們提案過程裡面呢都會經由這些部會協助他們去做一些審查那 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].start |
11840.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].end |
11860.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].text |
當部會他們同意的時候才會提到我們地方創生匯報我們在最後做決定那但是有很多部分有些是公部門執行的那大概都會用公有的土地然後他們應該本來就具備一些合法的條件那有一些可能是私人的或者是福原剛剛提到那個比較特別的地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].start |
11860.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].end |
11880.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].text |
他其實會針對那個地方去做個案的處理那基本上都會經過那個我們博導團隊的協助其實各個部會都有各個部會的一個責任劃分嘛農業部的立場當然是要保持我們的農地的一個功能的完整那我們國發會當然是在產業的上面那當然其實兩方面本來就是會有一些衝突這是大家都能夠理解的 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].start |
11881.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].end |
11900.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].text |
但是既然我們國發會是在輔導民眾回去創業的時候他們遇到這麼多法令的問題譬如說在農地上面要做什麼東西可能都會有一些放寬譬如說容許使用等等的可能有一些要請專業的水保技師或者是這個建築師去做一些相關的規劃這些成本您也知道這些成本對於我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].start |
11901.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].end |
11915.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].text |
回去地方串聲的朋友來講它是一個很大的一個門檻那我希望說我們國發會後續再輔導地方串聲的時候我們可能長期以來都是注重在產業面怎麼寫出它宣傳啊實質的內容的部分但是土地管制的這部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].start |
11916.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].end |
11932.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].text |
我也希望能夠協助我們地方創生的朋友多多跟農業部來做一些溝通能夠做放寬的 謝謝沒有迫害到我們國土利用的符合我們國發會的一個方針的我們盡量去做一些放寬我的放寬不只是容許使用還要請一些技師去簽證什麼什麼的 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].start |
11933.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].end |
11945.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].text |
而是直接可能在一定的規模以下就是我們直接容許的好不好我希望我們副主委如果地方政府有發生這些問題或是疑難的時候我們再看看有什麼個案我想這已經是現在的問題了現在的問題就看你們有沒有重視這樣子謝謝謝謝副主委謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].start |
11953.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].end |
11974.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].text |
謝謝廖先祥廖委員下一位請何欣淳委員何欣淳委員何欣淳委員不在請李彥秀委員李彥秀委員李彥秀委員不在請奈會委員委員奈會委員委員奈會委員委員不在請蘇清泉委員蘇清泉委員蘇清泉委員不在請高金素梅委員高金素梅委員高金素梅委員不在 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].start |
11976.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].end |
12004.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].text |
請羅明財委員羅明財委員羅明財委員不在請鍾嘉斌委員鍾嘉斌委員鍾嘉斌委員不在請邱毅英委員邱毅英委員邱毅英委員不在請陳冠廷委員陳冠廷委員陳冠廷委員不在請葉元之委員葉元之委員葉元之委員不在來得及嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].start |
12005.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].end |
12014.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].text |
還是沒關係 我就我看文字你要先拿出來 要不然人家跑好 接完 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].start |
12036.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].end |
12054.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].text |
好那針對今天的議程是鄉村發展總體檢討及如何提升城鄉發展韌性之規劃方向那我們是希望相關今天與會的各單位甚至包括今天沒有與會的內政部地政司 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].start |
12056.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].end |
12081.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].text |
這個地政司嘛對事實上都有關於說鄉村總體規劃的一個法規甚至一些關於預算所以我們具體請求第一個請內政部會同國家發展委員會農業部及相關部會針對鄉村地區整體規劃之推動機制配合法令實施工具及 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].start |
12084.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].end |
12103.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].text |
經費等進行盤點並提出未來6年之規劃方向及推動方式第二涉及所需經費及來源請中央相關部會積極爭取預算那我自己再加一個第三點就是說關於這些相關法規 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].start |
12107.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].end |
12125.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].text |
資修正方向請於三個月內提出初步計畫到經濟委員會及本會委員那是以上我的一個裁示那希望相關部會可以加速來辦理好好我們先 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].start |
12133.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].end |
12136.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].text |
他去哪裡了?他現在要跑來嗎?要跑來啊?都要跑來啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].start |
12154.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].end |
12174.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].text |
來剛剛的剛剛我宣示的這個三個要點我們是希望雖然我才是這個三個月不過我想我在這三個月的期間我可能再召開一個公定會那可能也不必會用經紀委員會的程序的時間但是我希望這件事要有推動 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].start |
12175.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].end |
12202.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].text |
因為現在既然有國土計畫法然後已經有把相規入法那我覺得這是很重要的一刻那既然已經入法了就要有它的配套以及它的預算這兩件事都很要緊那我覺得相關部會應該就把資源整合好配套要怎麼用那我相信現在有很多部落有很多村莊像剛剛吳立華所講的就有村莊他現在就在期待了 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].start |
12203.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].end |
12220.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].text |
那我也希望以他剛剛說的那一個個案,也當作我們的一個指標案例,我們怎麼去協助他們,讓他們現在都是殯葬用地,未來他們那塊地會變得更有使用價值,使用更有生產力的土地。 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].start |
12225.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].end |
12239.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].text |
就是國土永續發展基金到2月底他有現金283億可以來運用所以是優先從這裡來做處理那當然後續一定會不夠如果照委員您這樣構想但是現在國土永續發展基金是有283億我補充這個資訊 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].start |
12242.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].end |
12254.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].text |
這個資訊很重要,兩百多億,這個會作為我未來招牌公聽會的經費來源兩百多億可以做很多事了 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].start |
12260.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].end |
12263.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].text |
現在做相關的規劃,然後縣市的通盤檢討 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].start |
12292.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].end |
12305.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].text |
現在主要就是之前的各縣市做的規劃然後我們這些陪伴的協助的這些專業團體所以就是剛剛武力法秀出的資料說每一個縣市還有哪些鄉鎮正在做相規 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].start |
12307.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].end |
12337.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].text |
那些違規的監測還有相關的事情現在都用這筆錢那未來其實我們還有一個機制其實在做富裕那富裕也要用這筆錢所以如果是從重劃的講鄉村的農地的實施重劃這筆錢到底要不要這麼用這件事情其實要重新討論所以我們的會計劃說我們要盤整嘛盤點完沒關係那我們至少知道有一個穩定的經費來源可以真的把原來法要做的其實就要趕快盤整嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].start |
12337.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].end |
12357.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].text |
好 那因為我們陳冠廷委員他對於這個國土計畫尤其未來要怎麼做相規的配套他也是很在意所以他剛剛說用跑的過來所以雖然我剛剛把他已經跳號過去了不過我們再給他三分鐘的時間讓他可以再來詢問一下我們與會的官員來 請陳冠廷委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].start |
12365.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].end |
12367.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].text |
謝謝趙薇 謝謝主席等一下我們開會時間就到展延到會議結束那我們請農業部部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].start |
12377.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].end |
12395.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].text |
部長今天不在 委員好好想請教一下現在雖然說國土計畫法延後6年那這個嘉義的林白亭還有大量的居民數十年都是持有國產署的合法租約那他們依法繳納租金那依約使用土地 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].start |
12395.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].end |
12415.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].text |
那未來如果國土計畫法實施這些長期以來繳納這些繳租的民眾可能沒有辦法納入城鄉發展區那陷入這個困境我想請教一下這個矛盾點就是一方面我們要收租金他認可他的使用權另一方面用國土保育的這樣子的禁止為由將他不讓他劃入發展區 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].start |
12416.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].end |
12436.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].text |
那現在是變成說各自為政政策是前後矛盾這樣子的狀況我想請教一下這個農業部現在的說明一下國產署是認為租約要保障權益劃入這個城鄉發展區那農業部卻反林務局是反對的立場這樣不是有明顯的政策衝突嗎你要怎麼 有沒有一些規劃這些我們會跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].start |
12438.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].end |
12453.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].text |
縣市政府或者是相關的部會來做協調盡可能如果說被劃入國保區或城鄉區的話那這些人本來就要做農業使用的話我們會繼續保障他們的權利我們會持續保障就對了對我們目前部裡面有這個立場所以我們已經去修改這個我們的農業發展條例裡面的相關的規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].start |
12461.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].end |
12483.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].text |
這個是我們很正面看待因為我們是很希望說讓這些合法繳租的這些居民能夠有一個他們可以去生存發展我們現在不是生活而已只是他們要生存發展的所以這個部分我們真的是希望能夠來去准許這些目前出租的土地來去劃入這個城鄉發展區那內政部也是同樣的看法嗎是不是請內政部來請內政部 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].start |
12492.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].end |
12518.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].text |
報告委員目前主要還是如果是談現階段的部分現階段部分依相關的功能化區的原則去做相關的管理還有我們的圖管的草案去做然後後續就是這一次修法有個相規這件事情對這件事情如果盤整之後是可以處理的那當然就可以做一些調整主要是在這部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].start |
12518.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].end |
12533.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].text |
所以今天聽起來是農業部跟內政部開始有慢慢趨向一致就是要給我們這些被劃入就是以前要繳租金這些不會說不給他們生路而是要給他們一個生存發展的空間開始慢慢有這樣的共識我可以這樣去理解 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].start |
12536.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].end |
12556.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].text |
我還是再次強調就是我們希望說內政部農業部財政部他們可以成立一個專案的工作小組讓這些林班地合法租約的這些租約戶的能夠在這個穀土計畫功能分化這個地方有一個統一處理的一個原則跟規則讓他們能夠在這一個他們的地方來去生存發展好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].start |
12556.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].end |
12584.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].text |
好 感謝 謝謝 謝謝趙偉好 謝謝我們陳冠廷委員精準的使用這三分鐘好那我們現在登記發言委員除不在場者外其餘經已發言完畢 詢答結束委員林黛華 邱益穎所提書面質詢列入記錄刊登公報書面質詢及未及答覆部分請相關單位於一週內以書面答覆並複製本會 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].start |
12589.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].end |
12598.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].text |
書面質詢也再增加代會委員列入紀錄刊登公報本日議程處理完畢謝謝大家現在散會 |