| IVOD_ID |
165499 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165499 |
| 日期 |
2025-11-17 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-4-36-8 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期司法及法制委員會第8次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
8 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
36 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
司法及法制委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期司法及法制委員會第8次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-11-17T09:45:10+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-11-17T09:58:46+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:13:36 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/ff1e125e807f56ab4b825b41d3523a77c344f506729c478c5fbc24375b25c4749dbd41b275635fa55ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
羅智強 |
| 委員發言時間 |
09:45:10 - 09:58:46 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-11-17T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期司法及法制委員會第8次全體委員會議（事由：邀請法務部部長、法務部調查局局長、經濟部部長、財政部部長、交通部部長、行政院公共工程委員會主任委員、環境部、法務部廉政署、台灣中油股份有限公司董事長、台灣電力股份有限公司董事長等就「中油三接浮報工程款爭議及近年來國營事業貪瀆案件查處成效」進行專題報告，並備質詢。） |
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有請法務部調查局經濟部交通部然後廉政署以及中油董事長麻煩請相關單位的長官列席 謝謝先請中油董事長委員長我先問你三個非常簡單的問題來請你告訴我第一個什麼時候告金週刊 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
42.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
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目前呢 我們公司內部再啟動行政調查我再問你一次 什麼時候告金週刊目前沒有 我覺得現在目前沒有啊 你的報告怎麼寫的你說這些所有都不實報導不是嗎我們講的意思就是說現在重點董事長 我問你是不是不實報導金週刊的報導是不是不實報導我們要啟動內部的行政調查你看你迴避心虛嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
66.448 |
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我直接講結論啦報告不用寫啦還想那麼正正有詞不死你就要告 報告是不是這樣寫第一個就是說我問你嘛 你有沒有看報告不會報告出來你都沒看吧我講的意思就是說行政調查同時我們要配合檢調單位的一個調查結果董事長你光第一個問題都答不出來連報告自己怎麼寫都不知道 |
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91.773 |
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裡面就說只要是不實報道 你們會提出告訴是 只要是不實對啊 那請問你現在進週刊所以你沒有要告嘛那進週刊叫報道就屬實啦我告訴你 我直接告訴你你要告的還不只是進週刊報道你的三接二期的弊案今天 進週刊又加碼爆料你的三接一期都有問題兩單一起告啦 好不好 |
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121.516 |
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不 答不出來 任5秒問第二個問題 來錄音檔內的業者是不是東批公司是不是 告訴我目前不確定不確定啦來 部長 是不是東批公司 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
137.6 |
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154.39 |
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這部分已經剪掉臉我知道啦 謝謝部長休息休息 我知道你說個案不討論啦來 教育局局長是不是東批公司這個我就不方便說明我知道你一定答案一模一樣啦我告訴你們來 董事長上來我再問你是不是東批公司 |
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155.134 |
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目前不確定 不確定啊 非常好啊在我們資料上不確定我來去當 那個部長來去當調查局局長好了啦我幫你們來推估是不是東坯公司 來 我想請教一下最後齁 尋價結果齁 來 董事長黃昌說多少錢269億洪華說多少錢230餘億239億東坯說多少錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
187.163 |
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205.622 |
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256億來來來周刊的報導來告訴你是不是東批公司啊周刊報導說外界說這個工程94億就能做業者錄音帶業者說他提122億的價格你們中油高層豪氣說中油什麼都沒有欠啦錢最多啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
206.892 |
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230.126 |
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不缺錢啦然後等於是叫他繼續往上加他加了多少150億還繼續被中油罵然後呢加到220億再度被中油高層大罵中油高層罵我你這做頭家不會做頭路你都聽不懂你做什麼頭路囂張啊這位中油高層非常囂張喔好來 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
231.944 |
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255.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
這個營造商抱怨啦 90幾億可以做第一次抱120億 他說太低 150億又被罵叫他抱高一點 最後他報價 報到多少 周刊報導報多少 請問 報多少報給你們周郵多少 告訴我 周刊報導 有沒有看不會沒看吧我看了 我看了 名譽這麼重要 有看 來周刊報導 他報多少給你們 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
256.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
276.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
報告委員齁 從這個周刊 答不出來你第二次心虛 你告訴我 你給我數字從周刊的報導裡面 你給我數字啊從周刊的報導裡面 你不要迴避問題喔我問你這麼簡單的數字 最後報給你多少錢我們沒有接到他的報告 我們接到的是我講是周刊的報導 周刊報導這個廠商報給你多少錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
279.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
285.71 |
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告訴我答對了來 請問你剛剛講東坯公司報多少錢哈哈哈哈我去當部長 我去當局長一模一樣啦是不是東坯公司 我再問你來 請問 來 請教部長這麼清楚啊東坯公司要不要約談一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
306.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
325.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
各愛不評論這部分我想那個辦案單位有他的偵查的一個規劃來請局長依常理啦不要跟著部長好不好來局長對你喜許甚深依常理我幫你推估到這種程度了直指東批公司 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
327.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
342.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
總要去約談一下吧 了解一下吧謝謝委員的推估 我們會參照委員的意見好 謝謝你 謝謝局長部長看一下 局長起碼有誠意多了來 我第三個問題要問你來 第三個問題問你我想請教一下我們的董事長請問這中油高層 這位總經理說中油不缺錢報告一點的總經理是不是你 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
354.978 |
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377.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
報告委員 從這個週刊的報導 所謂總經理上面並沒有講中游非常好 你是指世襲嗎我不知道不是台灣世襲就是中游啊這個部分我不知道來來來 請教你 為什麼直接問你啊我給你呈現一個機會啦三接二期是哪一年招標的哪一年決標的都是在111年對啊 2022年6月29日招標8月2號決標嘛 對不對來 請問 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
383.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
394.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
董事長你那個時候在中油的職位是什麼我是111年4月12號升任總經理所以在4月12號之前我是副總經理 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
395.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
418.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
你說111年之前 升任總經理4月12號升任總經理你就是總經理啊 不是嗎這個事情應該是發生在請購預算核定階段前總經理啊 謝謝你 非常好非常好 總理長我真的佩服你啊原來是前總經理啊來來來 沒關係來 那個部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
424.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
450.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
人家都把總經理都講出來 而且他直接跟你講是前總經理雖然招標的時候 絕標的時候 他是總經理可是他說前面的階段 他不是總經理 那個前總經理的事情前總經理要不要約談一下來 個案對尊重檢方這個我想有辦案單位來做一個好 非常謝謝 那我再提示一下提示一下我們局長啦我給你第二個名字了 對你多好對 給你第二個人 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
452.222 |
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477.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
我不直接問你回答 因為你回答可能也要跟部長一樣啦偵查不公開啦 我們都會參考 謝謝謝謝你參考啦兩個單位給你啦來 我再請教你第三個我想請問第三個單位要跟你講我看你們報告一直在講什麼台灣四溪嘛 對不對來 董事長請台灣四溪喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
479.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
508.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
那我跟局長直接說啊所有的報價的過程當中台灣世襲證據一定在台灣世襲嘛台灣世襲我們現在董事長是誰鄭裕鵬啊鄭裕鵬7月才接我先幫他講啦這事跟他沒關係啦可是他是董事長就我所知崔少哲也有去跟台灣世襲那邊所以請鄭裕鵬也來好好了解一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
509.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
533.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
我給你 今天給你三個名字我最後回頭說啊 我要跟大家講我不認為週刊報導是空穴來風啊你看它週刊報導多好啊256億寫的清淨數今天如果說你給三家公司尋價結果沒有256億這個數字喔 那我覺得週刊胡說八道嘛你給的三家公司有一家就有256億就這麼清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
537.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
565.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
那今天說真的 那麼清楚啦檢方趕快要辦一辦那我再來請教我們的董事長剛剛我們的黃國昌委員說中油實在是檢察官說的中油公司貪腐結構根深蒂固你反對嘛 你不認同嘛 對不對不認同 來來來第一點 我想請教一下部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
567.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
567.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
請教部長我們偵辦從110年到114年國營事業貪賭案移送最多的公司 國營事業是哪一家 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
588.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
617.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
這部分我沒有資料那局長了解啦 局長給的資料吧哪一家移送最多中油比較多中油比較多 謝謝局長謝謝 謝謝委員董事長你中油當然了不起啊 第一名啊那麼多國營事業公司你被移送第一名啊你驕傲啊黃國昌剛剛還是引用檢方的說法你不認同啊來 沒關係 你不認同來 我再問你一個數字 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
618.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
646.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
今天我要把一句話念給你聽 離譜到什麼程度到現在還不敢跟我講 你到底要告不告中油什麼都不欠 錢最多 都不欠錢周刊報導啊中油欠不欠錢中油來講目前負債比很高你也知道啊 你也知道啊過去五年啊 賠了三千億 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
648.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
663.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
錢最多 錢賠最多啦為什麼會賠那麼多報告如果屬實三兆你都賠不完隨便一個工程一家一百五十億還去罵廠商報價報太低勒來給你反駁啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
673.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
701.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
那麼過去三年中油公司負債比從60%提高到93%最最主要的原因在這過去三年裡面中油公司承擔了在國內物價的一個好慮謝謝你的回答啦我告訴你最最主要原因承擔物價啦最最重要原因就是福報工程價格週刊報導的承擔物價這是國家政策我不怪你 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
703.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
731.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
可是今天嚴重到這種程度結果到現在為止你還是不敢講告不告周刊我告訴你就心虛周刊報的就是真的我相信周刊我真是相信金周刊啊對啊你也相信啊所以你不敢告啊他還不只告你不只講中三階二期啊他今天爆料三階一期也有問題啊中友還在說沒有貪腐沒有貪腐結構沒有根深蒂固 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
732.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
741.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
你拿什麼說服力告訴大家賠三千億怎麼賠就你偉大的忠友啊但今天我對總經理有一句話講得最好 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
742.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
763.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
我本來今天就要好好來質疑你我們要請你自行調查就你跟我講 你的答案我接受你說抱歉 絕標招標你是總經理但是所有事情完成是在絕標招標之前那不關你的事 那是前總經理所以爆料裡面的總經理不是你這個我聽起來有道理 我覺得有道理 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
765.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
776.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
可是今天中油根深蒂固的腐爛你董事長與有責焉啊那為什麼你直接告訴董事長既然是前總經理的事情不要包庇啊該辦就辦鐵腕斷然的去辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
782.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
806.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
可以嗎報告委員我們還是要就這個事情他是不是有這樣的一個情形要把他弄清楚謝謝 弄清楚啊你剛剛不是講弄清楚就是沒這個事啊我們現在重啟調查因為現在有新市政了嘛包括這個錄音黨所以你現在也不確定有沒有事啦很好啊你有自我懷疑精神我謝謝你啊今天中油自己都開始懷疑自己好事情好事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
807.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
811.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
請法務部聯政署調查局好好幫助你來驗證你的自我懷疑正不正確 謝謝 |