| IVOD_ID |
16546 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16546 |
| 日期 |
2025-03-26 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-36-4 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第4次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
4 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
36 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
司法及法制委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第4次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2025-03-26T08:30:58+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-03-26T11:42:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
03:11:02 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/8d241381c4f8c7fc5d3f5f5d43d00e8421a0c6ed6363745a7692a6bdb7e2f09fce64bf7e1ad1f3cd5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-03-26T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：併案審查
（一）司法院、行政院函請審議「刑事訴訟法部分條文修正草案」案。
（二）委員羅智強等17人擬具「刑事訴訟法第二百零五條之二條文修正草案」案。
（三）委員莊瑞雄等18人擬具「刑事訴訟法第二百零五條之二、第二百零五條之三及第二百零五條之四條文修正草案」案。
（四）委員林楚茵等17人擬具「刑事訴訟法第二百零五條之二條文修正草案」案。
【僅進行詢答】） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:30:58 - 11:42:00 |
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現在開始開會我們進行報告事項宣讀上次會議意思錄 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
1753.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
1780.219 |
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立法院第十一屆第三會期司法及法治委員會第三次全體委員會議議事錄實踐中華民國一百一四年三月二十日星期四上午九十一分至十二時二十四分地點本院紅樓三零二會議室出席委員黃國昌委員等十二人列席委員鍾嘉斌委員等十人列席官員行政院人事行政總處人事長蘇俊榮等人主席莊召集委員瑞雄 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
1780.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
1804.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
報告事項一 宣讀上次會議議事錄決定確定二 邀請行政院人事行政總處人事長列席報告業務概況並備質詢本次會議有委員黃國昌等17人提出質詢決定一 報告及詢答完畢二 委員質詢時要求提供相關資料或以書面答覆者請相關機關盡速送交個別委員及本會宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
1808.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
1833.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
因為人數在場不足三人所以我們稍後確認我們接著再介紹道場委員及應邀列席官員首先介紹道場委員 羅志強委員接著我們介紹應邀列席官員司法院副秘書長 王梅英副秘書長法務部政次 徐向政次 你好還有嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
1836.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
1860.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
齊委及介紹的列席代表請參議院名單不再逐一介紹並列入公報記錄本次議程討論事項排定並案審查司法院行政院函請審議刑事訴訟法部分條文修正草案等事案先進行提案說明及報告提案說明發言時間三分鐘請提案人羅志強委員進行提案說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
1869.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
1896.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
主席我們所有列席的官員近年來三級及新興混合毒品私用的案件大幅增加但現行的法律跟執法工具對於毒價的查緝仍然有重大的缺漏那影響執法成效跟公共安全所以因此為了要遏止毒價在符合憲法一旨條件之下所以我們希望能夠儘速推動這個刑事訴訟法205條之二的修法 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
1898.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
1927.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
那目的就是要完備第一線警務人員查驗毒價跟毒品私用的法源依據那首先就是說在憲法判決對於現行採尿機制的影響那根據大法官4至111年憲判制第16號的解釋現行的刑事訴訟法205條之二雖然規定授權執法人員對於犯罪嫌疑人採尿液取證 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
1928.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
1948.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
但此規定違反憲法正當法律程序原則那侵害人民資訊飲食權身體權所以被認定違憲因此目前執法人員在執法過程當中如果駕駛人拒絕提供尿液將無法以獨駕罪來移送它也導致法律實務上出現了重大的漏洞 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
1949.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
1974.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
那2023年就曾發生過這個有男子車禍昏迷那醫院警方從醫院的產料發現有安非他命的陽性反應那雖然向檢察官來取得鑑定許可但法院還是認為說他不是經過拘捕的嫌疑人或毒品人口那這個做法他認為說是這個排除他的一個證據力 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
1976.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
1996.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
那因此這些種種的一些因素都造成說我們今天發現警方我們在查緝所謂的毒品的時候尤其在查驗毒價的時候會有很多機制漏洞所以我們希望就針對這個問題今天我們的修法能夠把所有的狀況一併的來去思考 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
1997.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
2025.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
因為現在的那個販毒的問題毒品的問題 氾濫的問題真的是已經嚴重的衝擊我們社會的安全那尤其很多新興毒品它的那個影響甚至直接衝擊到用路安全那毒價的問題越來越嚴重所以今天我們有一些提案就希望大家我們可以一起來想辦法找出一個解決的方法能夠完善我們的一個法規讓我們第一線執法人員可以來守護我們這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
2026.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
2049.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
社會的安全跟秩序 以上 謝謝我們接著介紹道場委員 黃國昌委員羅委員 不好意思 稍微等一下請問各位 我們先確定議事錄請問各位 就上次的會議事錄 有錯誤或遺漏沒有的話 上次會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
2051.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
2071.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
那我們再介紹王益川委員那上次的會議事錄確定好那我們接著我們接續請機關代表報告那發言時間5分鐘我們先請世保院王副秘書長報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
2083.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2110.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
主席各位委員各位先進大家早安那今天貴院司法及法治委員會的全體委員會議呢並按審查司法院行政院含情審議的還有委員羅志強委員莊瑞雄委員林楚英等人所提的這個刑事訴訟法205條之二的這個修正案那本院那個奉邀前來列席報告主要如書面進行指教那以下補充幾點 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
2112.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2133.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
首先就是說那個司法警察他所為的這個產料處分呢他性質上是屬於身體檢查的一個干預處分那這個涉及了資訊隱私權還有身體自主權不受侵害的基本權那這個必須呢是符合正當的法律程序那現行的刑事訴訟法205條之二規定呢他 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2137.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2154.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
是規定說司法警察他因為蒐集證據的那個必要那對於這個拘提跟逮捕到的這個犯嫌呢可以直接違反他的意思直接採尿那以上的這個規定呢依這個憲法法庭111年憲判16 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2157.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2176.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
的判決明白的宣示就是這樣子的那個規定呢他是不符合憲法的正當法律程序這個抵觸那個憲法的意旨因此呢司法院就因應了這個判決召開了多次那個諮詢會那個提出了提出了 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2177.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2196.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
在今天审议这一个司法院的那个版本那主要的呢有三点第一个呢就是修正205条之二呢对于非侵入方式的这个材料呢主要是采取了层级化的法律保留还有令状原则 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2198.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2223.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
對於這個司法警察那個採尿呢規定事先要報請檢察官許可那如果說有急迫的那個情況呢他可以直接的非侵入方式的那個採尿那事後在採尿之後的24小時報請檢察官許可那檢察官如果認為不准許的話就要在三天之內來撤銷之這第一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2224.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2249.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
那第二點呢 增訂了205條之三呢有關於檢察官呢 他這個許可書的記載那許可書的這個記載呢 反面的也就是說就規範了司法警察他要報請檢察官許可的那個內容那另外呢 還規定了就是說這個執行的時候呢必須將這個許可書送交執行機關跟受採取人 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2250.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2260.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
那第三點呢就是規範了在205條之四呢規範了那個司法警察他如果進行採尿的時候的一個事後救濟 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2264.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2280.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
司法警察如果是依205條之二第二項的後段進行採尿處分的時候那受處分人就可以向該管的法院申請撤銷時間是從採尿之後的十天來申請 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2281.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2308.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
那相關的這些救濟程序是準用抗告編的那個規定那這以上是主要規定那另外有一點說明就是說原來我們提的這個草案呢有增訂第70條之一的這一個植物期間回復原狀的規定那這個條文呢已經在113年7月31號修正公佈生效了所以也沒有必要再那個增訂 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2309.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2334.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
那以上呢 就是會嫌行政院的過程中呢對於這個205條之二呢 兩院都有那個達成的那個共識那205條之三和之四呢 就只有一小部分有不同那個意見好 那以上報告 謝謝好 謝謝副秘書長 那接下來我們請法務部徐次長報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2346.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2364.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
主席各位委員各位女士先生今天奉邀列席貴委員會代表本部列席報告並被質詢那報告如下敬請指教第一有關司法院行政院函請審議刑事作法部分條文修正草案案 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2365.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2392.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
第一 有關司法院版草案第70條之一現行法已有規定 無需鎮定剛才副秘書長也有特別報告到這一點第二 有關草案第205條之二竟表同意第三 有關司法院版草案第205條之三建議採行政院版草案因為 瓜福音本法416條有關准看告知救濟期間 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2394.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2413.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
並非以送交後起算那司法院版的草案呢無意起算就計期間官府二本條所規定是許可書跟本法204條之一的許可書同樣是屬於鑒定許可書內容跟執行方式呢應具一致性 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2413.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2443.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
避免實務運作產生混淆跟困難自執行錯誤而產生證據能力的爭議那關五三行政院版草案無礙於受處分人救濟權之行使第四有關於司法院版草案第205條之四不得抗告是屬於重要事項並參酌本法245條之一之規定的體例建議採行政院版草案就是單列不得抗告 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2446.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2449.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
抱歉那個好那 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2453.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2474.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
第二 有關於委員羅志強等17人擬具刑事訴訟法第205條之二條文修正草案案一 草案第一項尿液以外檢體之採證客觀上是不存在於侵入性採取之方式明定以非侵入性方式採取 請再審酌 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2476.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2497.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
第二 草案第二項之體例將造成檢察官核發鑑定許可書後是否可自為撤銷得救濟之課題是否包含經檢察官事前核發的鑑定許可書等適用上的遺例進而跟本法第416條產生漢格 見請在座 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2500.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2523.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
第三 草案對於鑑定許可書應記載之事項及執行方式、救濟等未有相關配套規範 見請審酌第三 有關於委員莊瑞雄等18人拟據刑事訴訟法第205條之二、205條之三、205條之四條文修正草案案 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2523.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2537.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
第一草案第205條之二對於採證發動要件呢就系基於有相當理由有客觀事實或何者呢而逐認為採取尿液得作為犯罪證據未予規範進行著參第二 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2541.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2563.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
草案205條之三 競表同意草案205條之四 得否抗告呢 攸關重要事項予以明定 見請在座好 第四 有關於委員林楚英等17人擬拒刑事訴訟法第205條之二條文修正草案案有關 第一 有關於尿液之採取要件 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2563.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2584.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
建行法律程序均有別於該條第一項其他檢體體力上建議將尿液採取的依據、藥件、程序等完整規範於同一項建請再酌第二草案對於鑑定許可書應記載四項執行方式、救濟等未有相關配套的規範建請審酌 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2586.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2613.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
最後本部再次對大院費薪修法表示敬佩之意以上報告敬請各位委員先進指教謝謝各位好謝謝次長好那另外內政部警政署有提出書面報告那請問警政署有無口頭報告沒有好謝謝好那機關代表報告完畢相關書面內容請各位參閱並列入公報記錄 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2617.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2634.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
提案說明及機關報告已經進行完畢現在開始進行詢答本會委員詢答時間為8分鐘必要時得延長2分鐘非本會委員詢答時間為5分鐘並不再延長上午10點30分截止發言登記我們現在請登記第一位黃國昌委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2641.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2669.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
謝謝主席 麻煩有請司法院副秘書長 法務部政務次長好 麻煩副秘 麻煩次長兩位好 上一次啊 朱國榮啊這種有錢有勢的人啊 棄保潛逃整個社會啊 非常憤怒那時候我們的司法院啊 跟法務部啊 大家都在裝忙所以啊 開會 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2671.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2695.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
討論啊 精進防逃措施司法院發了新聞稿 開了會最高檢察署發了新聞稿說要防逃 說絕對不可以 再讓他們跑要提升科技監控使用的效能這個是之前在2023年的時候啊 發生的事情結果咧結果咧 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2698.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2713.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
結果跑了一個諸葛隆以後從司法院到法務部全部的人都在裝忙要開會精進沒想到我們的綠色權貴我們的洗錢大亨關係非常的好從一開始的時候幫保和會這種暴力黑幫在辦特見讓老大 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2726.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2753.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
去看小弟啊付安家費一通電話就搞定腐敗的不得了我一路追下來結果這個人啊厲害的地方還不僅於此啊交保的時候是民進黨的議員去幫忙辦交保審判的時候是民進黨的立委幫他推動修法想要脫罪啊這些全部都是客觀事實全部都是客觀事實 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2754.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2781.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
我盯這個案子 盯了好幾年我盯了好幾年我本來以為啊 朱國隆跑了以後不會離譜到連中文字都放掉吧結果呢 好不容易等到三審定讞判決確定合計三十年五個月 三十年了三十年的有期徒刑啊最高法院沒有定執行刑啊 所以要給檢察官定我後來恍然大悟啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2782.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2806.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
為什麼會沒有定執行刑不需要定執行刑不需要定執行刑為什麼不需要定執行刑根本沒打算執行我上一次正在這邊執行的時候在那邊站的是法務部部長我還問到中文字的案子結果離譜成什麼樣子棄保潛逃了 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2809.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2827.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
那時候我看到這個新聞我不敢自信啊因為諸葛龍案以後第一個被電子監控的就是中文字啊結果竟然跑了我在想是他破壞電子監控設備嗎我非常的驚訝我非常的驚訝結果 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2829.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2854.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
結果原來是高院說增加保證金2000萬就好了電子監控不用再搞下去了第一個問請教司法院之前我一直在追法學資料檢索系統判決裁定要完整公開請問在2024年10月的時候增加交保金額的裁定就關鍵嘛增加交保金額不用電子監控這個裁定為什麼不公開為什麼隱匿不公開 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2863.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2885.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
丟臉嗎丟臉嗎要迴避公眾監督嗎來請司法院副秘書長看啊這個是我今天早上來質詢以前我在check我找這個裁定找半天啊不敢讓社會大眾知道啊只有提高交保金啊不用電子監控啊去年我們在質詢司法院的時候信誓旦旦啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2886.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2893.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
說沒有現在的判決裁定啊全部公開沒有隱匿了來先說明一下去年10月的這個裁定到哪裡去了報告委員這個裁定依法是應該要公開的那為什麼沒公開剛好就這麼剛好你有沒有看到我整理出來的東西啊是這直接截圖我沒剪貼啊裁定到哪裡去了 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2916.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2943.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
事情大調了還是一開始法官就心虛連裁定都不敢公開可以腐敗成這個樣子喔回去三天之內把裁定公開上網可不可以可以太離譜了啦就剛好是中文字就剛好是不用電子假聊的裁定連公開都沒有公開 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2944.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2973.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
更離譜的是什麼結果事情發生了以後司法院跟法務部啊繼續裝忙從朱國隆開始就在裝忙到現在還在裝忙來我先先問清楚喔當初朱國隆當初中文字要不要電子監控的時候來請教一下法務部高檢署到底有沒有明確的表示應該要繼續施以電子設備監控有還是沒有有 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2974.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
3001.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
有嘛來再請司法院司法院為什麼你們發的新聞稿是檢察官沒意見誰在說謊誰在說謊現在法務部喔說高檢署說喔有要求要繼續電子監控喔但是我們從高等法院這邊所看到的聲明說檢察官沒意見誰在說謊連我們的司法機關都可以公開說謊喔誰在說謊 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
3004.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
3014.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
說清楚 請司法院誰在說謊 請司法院不敢講話 誰在說謊主席時間暫停啦我問了一個具體的問題沒有回答問題 在浪費時間想要用拖的喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
3030.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
3035.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
確認什麼啊 這問題我發文問多久啦我發文問多久啦可以了嗎不知道今天來要面對這個問題嗎誰說謊那可以回答了嗎 可以回答我們時間就繼續誰說謊 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
3057.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
3081.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
為什麼高院跟社會大眾講說檢察官沒意見誰說謊黃委員我們先要繼續嗎我等他回答因為立委的詢問現在大家可能看了還以為畫面在靜止因為如果說不知道那你要必須回答不知道而不是說沒有回答麻煩你們 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
3083.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
3098.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
這個部分據高院的那個回覆是說他們在詢問那個檢察署的時候那個高檢是回覆說那個沒有意見對啊所以嘛現在法務部他不就打臉了所以我現在要你們兩邊對清楚啊現在誰說謊請問誰說謊 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
3107.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
3131.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
我想跟委員報告齁這個在10月9號高院公訴檢察官力挺的時候已經很明確記載我這樣講好了啦一個禮拜之內請法務部跟司法院各自提出你們的證據可以嗎可以兩邊都可以嗎可以一個禮拜之內提出證據看誰在說謊這件事情一定要追究責任到底來 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
3133.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
3161.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
結果這個傢伙很扯給他解除電子監控整個社會大眾講說現在是對還是不對這個人之前已經棄保潛逃過還遭到通緝通緝期間還冒名使用他人護照非法出境兩次這種人二審判刑那麼重結果可以不用電子監控這到底是怎麼回事我就開始追了我上一次去年的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
3163.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
3191.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
我們司法院的秘書長說高院可以施壓迴避喔可以施壓迴避喔刑事訴訟法有施壓迴避嗎結果司法院極盡包庇之能事極盡包庇之能事我在司法法治委員會問這個問題的時候還有民進黨的立委跑出來擋所以立委不可以問司法院這個問題奇怪在法治面上我國刑事訴訟法何時規定施壓迴避 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
3194.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3216.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
不喜歡的法官就施壓 叫他迴避不是申請迴避 申請迴避被最高法院駁回了然後呢 高院的庭長跑去施壓他哇 這個中文字有通天的本領啊結果施壓迴避了以後 施壓的那個高院的行政庭庭長司法院有做任何處分嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3218.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3244.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
還是司法院要告訴全體全國高院的法官以後大家都可以施壓有樣學樣沒有關係司法院不會管來請司法院表明立場有關於這個部分呢就是司法院做過調查之後呢那個調查報告我看啊那個受訪的法官說什麼被問的法官他是不是說他覺得被施壓調查報告你有看嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3246.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3264.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
有閱讀了對啊那個被施壓的法官說什麼說沒有啦 庭長只是關心我他沒有施壓啦那個法官是這樣講的嗎還是他覺得很不舒服被施壓那法官怎麼說的那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3266.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3295.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
就那個紀法官他當時就是第一個時間點的那個因為他接到那個電話據他所說那個接到電話的時候時間很短那後來的時候呢他的審判長也有再去求證那可能是雙方對於這件事情的解讀哇 這樣子就輕輕帶過去了雙方的解讀不一樣法官覺得被施壓庭長說我只是去關心我們追求司法審判獨立多久了 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3296.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3325.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
台灣喔台灣人追求司法審判獨立多久了沒想到以前中國國民黨一黨專政搞的事情啊在民進黨推動司法改革以後繼續上演可以湊成這個樣子更離譜的事情是什麼就這張圖仔細看當初被施壓的法官他說要電子監控結果呢結果人家心灰意冷不如歸去啊他把法官給辭了 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3326.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3355.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
非常優秀的法官他不幹了他不幹了可以這樣施壓我沒有任何的結論司法院沒有任何的作為這個法官不幹了結果不幹了非常厲害換另外一個法官就是這個法官解除電子監控的結果中文字很厲害中文字找的律師都很有來歷 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3356.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3385.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
幫他解除電子監控的那位律師 邱昌宏律師之前是不是最高法院的院長是吧洪昌宏對 洪昌宏律師最高法院的庭長他庭長嘛 是邱宗義是不是他的庭員在統一庭 沒錯沒有錯嘛 是現在喔從高院到檢察官大家非常憤怒大家非常憤怒喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3386.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3414.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
周文智去找一個之前的庭長來當辯護人結果他之前的庭員就給他解除電子監控這件事情司法院有沒有下去調查有沒有下去調查調查有關於那個選任辯護人不是啦調查憑什麼給他解除電子監控這個事情不用調查嗎還是覺得司法院沒有關係這個是審判獨立 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3416.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3441.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
高院自家的法官可以去施壓下面的法官然後這種社會矚目群情劃然的案件司法院認為沒有必要調查司法院的標準是這樣嗎是這樣嗎這件事要不要調查我打開天窗說亮話這是法官跟檢察官跟我檢舉的 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3443.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3469.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
這是法官跟檢察官跟我檢舉的司法院都沒有掌握高等法院都不用提檢討還是沒有關係跟社會大眾講我們司法院會繼續開會研議如何精進防逃兩年前那一套那一套宮廷系繼續搬出來演一次就好了司法院要不要調查 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3472.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3486.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
就給一個答案嘛你不要調查就勇敢跟我說我司法院就不會調查嘛這件事情就放水流嘛我司法院現在就是毫無作為擺爛到底嘛要不然你要怎麼樣說清楚要不要調查 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3488.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3517.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
有關於那個裁定的那個部分這部分確實是涉及那個法官審判那個獨立的部分那如果說在司法行政部分有違釋的話很厲害嘛所以你們司法院很厲害啊行政庭長去施壓法官你們調查下去真的有被施壓沒有關係結果法官氣得不幹換另外一個法官就幫他解除電子簽禁哇原來綠色權貴啊再走法院啊是暢通無形啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3519.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3547.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
配合的很好啊不用給社會大眾一個交代還是司法院我就擺爛要不然你要怎麼樣嘛為什麼人民啊對司法的信任越來越低啊搞了七年的司法改革啊搞出這種垃圾出來我很清楚的講 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3548.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3572.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
我在國會殿堂非常負責任的講不是只有我憤怒一堆檢察官一堆法官大家都很憤怒到底發生什麼事啊剛答應的喔兩邊誰說謊兩邊誰說謊一個禮拜之內各自提出證據下一次質詢的時候我繼續追究謝謝黃委員那下一位我們請王逸川委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3592.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3601.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
法務部跟警政署的代表麻煩次長委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3604.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3631.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
今天這個刑法的修正案我想請問一下過去在採取這種尿液的檢查的時候實務上有沒有未經對方同意或沒有任何的文件就讓這個當事人就說你現在去給我採尿液然後我懷疑你吸毒我現在叫你去採尿液有沒有發生過這種事 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3633.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3662.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
是不是那請問一下委員是指逮捕居體的嗎不是 就是說譬如說毒駕酒駕之類的不會一般來講都有其他的事證譬如說在車上有扣到毒品或者是他行車是有不正常的軌跡那他如果發現他有毒品對不對然後呢你就覺得他吸毒是那你叫他採尿液 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3663.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3689.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
那他不採呢不採在法律上規定是可以報請檢察官做侵入性的採驗那非侵入性是什麼意思當時就是食物上的非侵入性是什麼概念對就是讓他喝水然後排尿那他如果都不喝呢都不喝到後來我們就報請檢察官回到205之一採鑑定許可書 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3692.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3694.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
那報請檢察官要時間嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3695.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3720.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
那我們現在修這個法是因為有些時間緊迫嘛 對不對你們認為要趕快採嘛 對不對修這個法是因為我們憲判16號認為說這個部分還是要有這個令狀所以有令狀所以才205-2 205-3才說這個部分有關非侵入性的也是需要經過檢察官的許可所以才增訂了205-2然後-3變成說那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3725.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3733.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
這個處分數的格式許可書的格式裡面是怎麼樣的對 但是現在又認為說這個如果有這個認定 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3735.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3759.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
認定我要馬上裁 後來才報檢察官嘛 對不對那這個認定是給警方或 就是說警方或者這個相關的司法警察有很大的裁揚權 是不是包委 那個是對於 我們現在是這樣子齁我們205-1-2-3是針對具體跟逮捕的 我們範圍已經限縮了那像街頭上的盤查那個部分 那是一定要回歸到強制處分 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3760.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3779.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
那我們是已經經過 譬如說現場已經有毒品了 那我已經經過居體或逮捕那這個限縮這個範圍的對象是已經經過居體跟逮捕那居體跟逮捕在過去裡面 他如果不想採尿 我們可能就是給他喝水那給他喝水以後 所以才會延伸到111年的憲判16號然後憲判16號下來以後 事實上憲判16號下來以後 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3784.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3799.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
我們在整個警政署他整個採尿的一些程序就已經回歸到依照憲判這個16號的相關規定訂定一個SOP那我們現在只是把它法制化那如果這一個當事人他不服 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3800.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3825.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
現在的這個新的規定是說他可以救濟嘛那救濟的話如果檢察官撤銷撤銷是就是採的這個相關的這個市政就不用了是不是是這個意思是不是是是不具證據能力那如果說這個不具證據能力那之前採的就算啦就是就把它銷毀掉啦那當事人也沒有辦法說你當時為什麼給我採 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3827.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3848.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
是 所以因為這個範圍已經很限縮到具體逮捕這個範圍已經非常小 具體逮捕那我們現在規範的是非侵入性的只要是侵入性的 可能就要回到205-1的鑑定許可書可能請專業的醫生採尿 導尿 或者是採血液等等這些那現在就是205-2-3 現在最主要在規範這些 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3851.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3877.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
那205之三司法院,再請司法院的同仁205之三司法院的版本跟行政院的版本我如果從字面上看起來是有一個司法院的版本是送交執行機關及受採取人然後行政院的版本是要出示許可書 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3879.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3903.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
這兩個的文字上,你們雙方有什麼樣的爭執?像委員報告,之所以司法院版本是規定送交這是因為採刑事訴訟法類似規定的相同法例像34條之一限制辯護人跟其他被告接見通信的限制書還有103條 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3905.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3932.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
就是羈押那個押票那還有203條之二這個執行鑑定留置的這個鑑定留置書都是採相同的法例要那個送交那這個也有一個作用就是說那個送交之後呢這個被告或者是犯罪嫌疑人呢他可以依據這個從這個時間點很清楚的就是說提出救濟 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3933.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3947.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
就是說你送交給他的那一個時間點開始對不對是是是嗎是那你們雙方的文字啊這個行政院的版本叫做初試對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3949.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3965.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
出示這個許可書嗎報告委員我想我想比較我們行政院版跟司法院版的不一樣的地方在於說他們使用送交給執行機關跟受裁員人 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3967.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3987.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
那這一個動作的話在前面一條就是侵入性的205-1請鑑定人採尿的我們只是希望我們只是出示就是這一個許可書加上出示證件就可以完成了程序同樣的是採尿結果現在新的法律規定205-2卻是要送達 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3990.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
4011.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
送交送交給執行機關以及受採人變成跟前面的強制是不一樣的程序我們第一線執行的警察一定會搞混到底是要送交不送交其實送交跟救濟沒有關係因為只要強制準備做了以後10天就是他的救濟期間不需要跟205之一有不同的規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
4012.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
4028.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
我想這是比較接近就是只要出示我們給他許可書然後出示證件這個就可以達到他這個救濟的期間的期算我想就不用再規定這個送交這兩個字了好 那司法員你們雙方的這個就這些文字上的差別 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
4028.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
4056.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
像委員在做的那個報告就是說司法院那個版本呢這樣子的出發意旨是為了讓就是被告或是犯罪嫌疑人他的權利更完善那如果說是在第一線的那個執法同仁他們覺得說是就是這樣子會造成他們困擾的話這個部分司法院其實並沒有堅持就是說採那個法務部或者是那個內政部警政署他們建議這我們都可以的 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
4057.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
4075.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
OK,那這個就進入主條的時候,你們再弄一個,你總不可以說聽的人,叫實際執行的人就在這個文字上在那邊糾結,其實也沒什麼意義啦那最後建議啊,這個以後你們來這裡備詢啊,有人再問個案你不要理他 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
4077.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
4100.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
你們怎麼可以在這裡談個案呢 談到那麼細 談到個別的人 個別的法官 個別的什麼談個案不應該是立法院該處理的 這個到時候你就回答他 個案 委員個案我們不便回答好不好我們先入到個案裡頭 個案有時候是 講到這裡就好了 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
4103.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
4125.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
謝謝王委員那我們下一位請吳思堯委員發言謝主席有請我們的王蜂蜜還有我們的許次還有次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
4136.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
4154.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
兩位辛苦了台灣是法治國家我們當然要依法行政所以我今天直接破題就兩個主題就教於兩位一個就是言論自由不等於無法無天鼓吹戰爭是法所不容更是世界孑然的舉世標準 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
4156.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
4170.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
第二個呢 跟司法院相關現在立法院要用空殼的公投來否決憲判或者是用不存在的公投來進行政治的操作是不是又有違憲的疑慮呢來 下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
4172.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
4199.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
言論自由有其邊界台灣不能再有下一個啞啞在台灣來鼓吹戰爭鼓吹中國侵略台灣台灣更是一個愛的世界我們都不能容許任何人用仇恨煽動歧視的言論來對待他人法所不容而且這是世界皆准 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
4201.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
4220.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
兩位誰可以來跟大家分享一下公民與政治權利的國際公約裡頭它確實保障了意見表意自由保障了言論自由但是它也有排除的限制條款誰可以分享一下複密 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
4223.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
4239.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
這個就如委員在這個資料上面所顯示的就是在那個公民與政治權利公約的第20條呢他有明白講了一些就是言論自由的界限像是那個鼓吹戰爭的這個宣傳那就必須要以法律禁止之這是一個界限 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
4241.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
4264.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
所以非常清楚 雖然公民與政治權利國際公約第19條有保障自由的權利不管是表意言論自由的權利 但是同一條它也揭出了必須進行某種限制因為基於保障國家安全或公共秩序或公共衛生或社會的風俗文化 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
4265.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4288.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
而二十條如剛富密所說的 他更正面的來說明說鼓吹戰爭的宣傳要以法律來禁止之第二呢 任何鼓吹民族種族宗教仇恨會造成煽動歧視敵視或強暴者也要用法律禁止所以這是世界皆准 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4289.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4314.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
也是法之不容而在台灣的國內法兩岸人民關係條例已經清楚的針對有事實族認為有危害國家安全或社會安定之餘者就違反了我們的兩岸條例必須依法該強制出境的該遣送的都要依法執行而台灣的入出國籍移民法再一次的說明了 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4315.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4324.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
昨天政府對於啞啞案的執法都是依法所據是捍衛台灣的國家安全下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4326.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4350.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
所以說我們今天在這裡講法理言論自由是人民的基本權我們絕對的捍衛也跟大家分享吳思瑤從國會助理政治工作到我現在正式第一線的從事民代公職我當初正因為受到鄭南榮先生的感召當他的自焚那時候我十多歲 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4352.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4373.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
有人可以為了爭取言論自由而犧牲壯烈犧牲他的生命受到鄭楠榮先生堅持百分之百的言論自由我決定我今生要從政我要捍衛台灣的自由權利所以言論自由是人民的基本權這也是無數個 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4374.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4397.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
黨外人士民進黨人士用生命犧牲捍衛得來的但是言論自由不是沒有邊界的他必須嚴格的審查所謂的嚴格審查是說對於政治性言論的限制正因為我們保障了自由所以要採取嚴格審查的標準而不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4398.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4426.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
任意的去限縮人民的言論自由而且言論自由絕對不是事前審查不像中國那樣事前透過出版透過你各種的言論進行事前審查我們是事後的限制如果有任何違反國家安全或者是以暴力手段來進行好民主政變政治變革的可能的話事後來予以限制這都是法理上告訴我們的 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4426.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4448.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
保障言論自由我們也要保障公共利益跟國家安全下一頁我想那個次長可以跟我們分享一下美國最高法院的裁決對於TikTok的禁令您知道這個案例嗎知道您可不可以跟大家分享一下美國最高法院 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4449.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4456.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
他們如何認為基於國家安全的考量他們裁決要用合理的方式來進行特殊的限制 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4458.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4481.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
我想因為TICO我們大概都知道它有很強烈的中資色彩那它跟中國政府會有很密切的關係那為了美國的國家安全它可能為了避開國家遭受到一些威脅所以它認為這時候的言論自由權利會在某程度受到限制 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4481.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4500.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
所以美國最高法院的九名大法官是一致認為TikTok與中國政府的關係所構成的國家安全風險遠遠大於TikTok所設的1.7億用戶的言論自由權利這就是言論自由跟國家安全 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4502.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4512.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
必須在權衡下做出正確的選擇這就是為什麼美國的最高法院對TikTok來禁止它是核限的 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4513.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4536.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
這就是我為什麼今天一直破題言論自由非常重要但是國家安全不可偏廢而言論自由必須有所限制這是法律的授權規範也是世界皆准的觀念一定要在這裡澄清下一頁那現在對於司法院未來可能很頭痛 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4538.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4551.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
現在有兩個不存在的假議題的公投但是昨天在立法院被弄假成真了在野黨委員非常遺憾用會議外的時間偷襲開會然後 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4554.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4578.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
只為了強行表決禁覆二讀兩個不存在的公共議題一個反廢死一個反戒嚴其實他們的政治目的只是讓公投來綁罷免也就是公投來救罷免下頁這是他們的主文荒謬至極跟你們反廢死他們這個反廢死的你們有沒有讀到這個主文有覆滅有沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4581.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4608.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
我就不在這裡去拆穿這個前後邏輯矛盾那根本是邏輯壞死喔但是我要提到的是下一頁台灣確實存在死刑嘛台灣沒有廢死嘛次長我們最近執行的死刑以及高雄地院何一庭做成的死刑判決您再一次清楚向國人說明台灣並沒有廢死 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4609.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4617.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
在今年的4月1號1月12號1月16號的時候呢我們執行了黃姓的死窮槍決案子 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4627.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4653.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
那再來就是最近高雄應該是高雄地院也判決了對於這一個殺害兩位夫妻的這一個也是判處死刑所以在死刑在嚴格的程序跟情節最嚴重的這個判刑的話事實上我們法院還是有 維持有死刑的判決 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4654.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4669.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
所以說我們大法官釋字第八號也講得很清楚死刑核限對不對只是我們要進行一些更嚴謹的正當法律的程序下一頁所以說國民黨所推的反廢死公投 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4670.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4698.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
他是反對一個毫不存在的事實法界我要提醒跟司法院未來絕對相關法界的意見像陳一錢教授都講得非常清楚這個反Face的題目或是反戒嚴的公投題目都違反了憲法的明確性原則只是把公投當作綁裝的工具蘇子喬教授也好或者是政大的林佳和教授也都說 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4699.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4722.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
國民黨提案的公投並沒有符合憲法的明確性原則而且這個題目既非創制沒有具體的法政策更不是覆決這個公投非常嚴重的瑕疵跟邏輯的壞死下一頁跟司法院有什麼關係 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4724.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4753.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
當初當我們對於國會擴選的法案憲法法庭宣判之後立法院就有一股立委他要提公投法要用公投法的修正來否決憲判而我的解讀剛剛的反廢死公投也某種程度是在對大法官的憲法法庭的解釋他們去做誤導的這些政治操作也就是當 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4754.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4782.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
立法院的委員說司法院的憲法法庭判決不能凌駕立法院那很好啊本來五院憲法機關就是平等相違啊立委認為司法院要尊重立法院那當然立法院的委員不能用修法的方式或是用這種不存在的公投議題來凌駕司法院的權限嘛這件事情非常嚴重喔如果說未來國民黨委員的修法還用公投法的修正來否決憲判 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4784.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4804.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
這就是違反憲法78條司法院解釋憲法的權利也違反了大法官已經做成的185號釋字司法院解釋憲法的統一權限如果任何違背解釋的判例當然是其效力但是任何人都要尊重憲法法庭的憲判 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4805.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4820.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
所以說憲法解釋等同憲法如果國民黨的委員認為公投如何如何那就進行必要的修憲或是修法的程序下一頁非常的遺憾在 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4821.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4838.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
死刑核限的憲判出爐之後我在這個場域立法院的司法法治委員會我一直說立法院的責任是什麼立法院的責任不是去推翻憲判而是針對憲判因為我們都要尊重憲法我們都要克尊憲法 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4839.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4861.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
在憲判出爐之後 立法院的使命是要透過修法來完備制度的配套比如說死刑核限但是我們如何強化法治來避免冤獄的產生我們如何來修法來防堵犯罪人逃避刑責的可能我們更應當來落實修法來推動無期徒刑假釋制度的層級化我已經說過N次了 下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4864.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4885.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
所以在立法院我們要修的法有刑法有刑事訴訟法有法院組織法有監獄刑刑法這是因應釋字第八號解釋之後立法院該做的工作也是行政部門應當啟動的修法配套的研議次長你們進行到哪裡了有一部分是在我們部內還在審查 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4891.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4912.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
那刑法的部分已經送到行政院了是所以行政部門該做的準備都在進行該做的制度經濟那個配套都負責任的進行而立法院我要問問國民黨的委員只會去操作這種空殼公投詐騙空投請問立委你們一直則該啟動的修法做了沒沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4914.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4928.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
自己該做的職責不善盡來提這些沒有道理不存在的議題詐騙公投來愚弄社會來挽救罷免這實在是荒天下之大謬 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4930.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4954.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
請法務部即刻針對必要的制度配套加速已經送院的當然在行政院但是你們內部還在研議中而且要擴大社會民間對話的我們持續進行我再次的呼籲立法院昨天的違法開會違法一決都不應當被認同而我相信我們主持已經有一年經驗的吳宗憲、張偉非常清楚如果開會表定時間到6點 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4956.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4978.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
我們的主席非常有經驗都會按照議事規則在6點前來進行現場的詢問我們要延長會議在場的委員同意嗎這是議事規則的ABC吳宗憲委員也都必須遵從這樣子的規則只是昨天立法院的韓國瑜院長並沒有在大會做明確的延長會議的 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4981.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4997.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
宣讀以及進行院會的公決這樣的會議就是違法的會議就是無效的表決當然連同連帶被偷渡偷襲的兩個公投案當然也無效好 今天質詢到這裡 該做的準備我們做好準備 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
5004.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
5030.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
那個下一位我們請翁曉琳委員那委員這個你剛說我都不評論啊我剛是請教一個程序上的沒有沒有不評論程序上的問題就是說因為之前您有抗議過好幾次我的主持就是讓讓委不是不是我不是討論昨天的事情我說你讓委員不可以問官員今天議題以外的事嘛你以前抗議過好幾次但你剛問的東西跟本日的議題無關是不是以後我們達成一個共識如果委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
5030.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
5056.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
妳在侵犯我的言論自由喔妳在侵犯我的問政自由喔這個是妳當初質疑其他立委妳在侵犯我的言論自由請不要發言喔現在是我發言的現在我發言妳當初抗議過好幾個委員在問跟本日無關的議程那我今天只是確認如果可以說可以說大家都這樣做的話那是不是我們在這個委員的時間內我們都讓委員能夠自由的詢問我只是確認這個事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
5060.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
5088.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
好不好我只是確認這個事情我要讓會議順利的進行所以我要確認我接下來這段時間主持會議我們本委員會該怎麼做那因為之前吳思耀委員多次抗議其他委員在執行台上面詢問官員跟本日疫情無關的案件所以如果今天我們可以讓委員在他的時間內就 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
5089.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
5108.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
被詢問的官員詢問任何種問題的話那這就是形成我們一個慣例將來只要委員在質詢台上面發問任何的問題我們都會予以尊重我們不會像吳思瑤委員一方面抗議參加的委員一方面學會跟本事無關的議程同時質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
5112.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
5129.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
自己也在議場上面詢問跟本日無關的議場以上這個就是我主持委員會主席這邊只是要做一個確認那如果一律不准其他的委員去問跟本日無關的我跟你講你不要罵這個會構成公然侮辱 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
5132.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
5158.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
如果今天我們同意其他的委員包括吳世耀委員可以詢問跟本日議程無關的議題的話那就大家一律適用我個人還是公平的主持會議就是一併大家共同的適用其他人都不用再多說這個是我在主持會議請安靜我在主持會議請安靜不要干擾我主持會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
5159.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
5187.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
請不要干擾我主持會議今天今天我們講的很簡單就是我要確認我們會議的進行該怎麼做所以很簡單的是如果今天各位委員都可以在台上面利用他的時間詢問各式各樣的問題那我們就予以尊重只要不違法我們就予以尊重那我想這次我將來我主持會大概就會採這個模式而不是說像上次有多位委員去 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
5189.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
5200.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
罵質詢的委員說你問的問題跟本日的議程無關那將來大家說的我都會予以尊重那剛剛不當的干擾那就算了我原諒你好那我們下一位請翁曉婷委員發言我說我原諒的時候我不會提出告訴啦請放心 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
5215.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
5228.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
主席好 辛苦了有時候在開會的時候難免會遇到比較暴衝的委員會干擾議事接下來我想請司法院副秘書長麻煩副秘書長還有請法務部次長好了 先請兩位委員長 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
5238.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
5263.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
是 我也是一開始我想先針對剛剛吳斯堯委員提出來的幾個問題在這裡我覺得還是要做一個澄清做一個說明這個所謂的樹葉有專攻這我上來我都不會太去批評吳斯堯委員畢竟他不是學法律的有時候講一些似是而非的事情這個他要 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
5267.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
5294.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
他要把一些不正確的訊息當成謠言一樣的散播出去那這個部分呢我想對於這個懂法律的人來講就會知道他所說的話基本上一笑大方那麼常常就是透過質詢自曝其短他就不是學法律的人剛剛講到所謂的公投依照我們公投法的規定我想兩位應該清楚知道立法院有沒有權利可以提起公投案 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
5299.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
5320.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
請問複密事實上請問對先請問複密您您知道公投法的規定立法院有沒有權利可以提起公投案依公投法第15條那個立法院是有職權的是我們可以提出什麼樣的公投案可以提出那個復決 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
5321.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
5349.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
重大政策的創制與覆決吧是不是我想這個徐司長應該也清楚知道我們現在公投法的規定對不對我們立法院本來就有權利可以提起公投案那至於公投案的主文的部分這是當然是基於立法院的這個經過大家的這個討論提案通過之後立法院所提出來的公投案的主文中選會有權利可以審查嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
5353.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
5373.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
請問兩位知不知道 清不清楚中選會是不是可以審查立法院這個是中選會的職權中選會的職權 看起來兩位可能不太清楚知道我們現在公投法怎麼規定中選會基本上是無權審查立法院所提出來的公投案 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
5374.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
5401.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
我們這次提出了兩個公投案一個是所謂的講說是所謂的反廢死公投案另外一個是反戒嚴公投案其實在反廢死公投案裡面的主文它其實非常的清楚基本上是要讓全民去決定到底支不支持我們現在我們這個未來如果我們要求各級法院判處死刑的法官是不需要一製決 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
5403.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5420.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
因为依照现在宪判之八号里面的这个要求各级法院的法官未来在做成死刑判决的时候是要一致决的而这个情况的确就会提高就是他基本上就已经促成了十字Face |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5421.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5446.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
的這個情況在我們現在台灣本來就是執行死刑很不容易那麼判處死刑其實門檻也是很高但是大法官憲判自8號做成之後其實會更增加判處死刑的難度所以我們這次提出的這個公投案基本上它就是一個重大的政策到底大家支不支持未來我們的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5449.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5466.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
相關的修法和立法的重大的政策我們是不是必須要同意全民是不是同意我們這個是不需要經由法官一致決的同樣的反軍事反戒嚴公投也是一樣賴清德宣布了這17條看起來就是要把台灣這個帶向這個戰爭的邊緣或者是說要實施所謂的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5479.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5509.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
軍事戒嚴那這個問題是很嚴重啊那我們台灣我們支持這樣子的一個政策嗎這難道不需要全民來一起表達意見嗎現在民進黨是在怕什麼他們怕公投通過之後會打臉民進黨因為他們支持廢死支持還死支持準軍事戒嚴所以他們這麼的杯葛我們這次立法院所提出來的兩大公投案 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5511.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5539.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
我要再次重申昨天在立法院的會議整整的浪費了一整天就是因為民進黨委員從會議一開始就霸佔主席台昨天明明應該是施政總質詢要讓他完成結果讓所有的部會首長院長坐在下面耽誤了一整天的時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5542.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5566.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
那只是我也是覺得說行政院非常的不尊重立法院我們所有的委員都堅持到七點半之後才離開這個立法院院長當時就有說接下來叫施政總質詢這院長竟然抗命耶 部會首長竟然抗命竟然不回來這完全是違反這個憲政體制 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5570.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5597.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
權力分立的原則立法院是監督行政院而且行政院本來就有義務要到立法院接受備詢結果他竟然可以自動放假自動休息我們韓院長昨天在立法院等待他們40分鐘行政院離立法院是很遠嗎非常的遙遠40分鐘都趕不過來嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5601.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5627.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
實在是讓我感到非常的這個痛心啊看到現在台灣這個行政院不像行政院他倒已經是背離了憲法所賦予他的職責既不尊重立法院而且還處處就抗議向這個立法院抗議明明政府就是個管家但是他偏偏爬到人民頭家的頭上 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5629.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5647.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
接下來我想請教我們王副秘書長的就是大法官總統府已經公告了大法官的候選人我想這次的名單其實令大家比較訝異的就是司法院院長的被庭人 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5648.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5664.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
是出生於這個檢查體系那麼我想請問就是從司法院的角度來看你們會接受這樣子的一個安排嗎會不會擔心未來的這個院長基本上根本不了解司法院裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5666.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5681.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
這個的一些狀況因為我們知道其實從過去這些年來從民國八十八年來其實還可以推到更早向來的司法院院長從來沒有過是檢查體系出身的所以請問父母你怎麼看這件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5682.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5693.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
有關於那個大法官的提名還有審查呢他分別是屬於總統還有立法院的職權那我想司法院會尊重就是相關有權責機關那個職權的行使謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5696.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5722.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
了解好那麼當然這個最後院長的候選人還是要經過立法院統一通過但是我們還是會基本上從司法院的角度去思考這件事情這個被庭理人這位被庭理人到底夠不夠Qualify他了不了解司法院裡面的一些問題畢竟審檢的體系是不一樣的而且這個可能也會有一些疑慮好那接下來我在 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5724.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5752.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
繼續想要請問的就是在前兩個禮拜因為柯文哲父親過世所以我們也看到了除了柯文哲當然他一定在現場參與他父親的告別式另外我們也看到了陳水扁請問司法院還有法務部你們現在看到陳水扁你們的想法是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5753.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5767.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
他的案子該重新恢復審判了嗎你們知道陳水扁的幾個案子到目前為止庭審多久的時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5769.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5794.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
現在目前是在裁定停止的狀況那這個部分因為是屬於法官個案所以我們行政部不方便表示意見是好你們都說是這是個案但是我要講就是你從個案你就可以看出整個司法體系到底公不公正獨不獨立所有的人台灣的人民都可以清清楚楚知道陳水扁的身體很好 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5795.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5824.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
他還可以幫他的女兒去擔任訴訟代理人但是他竟然沒有辦法沒有能力他竟然這個法院還有我們的法務部這個高院還有最高檢察還有這個高檢署竟然都沒有要求要重新回覆審判法務委員我們已經有這四個案件我們都有那個發函處請我們法院盡速開庭是所以現在責任回到法院嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5826.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5829.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
所以高院什麼時候要恢復審判下一頁下一頁我希望司法院能夠去了解這些事情這個不是單純的個案這已經涉及到這個法官陳審法官他沒有失職的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5851.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5870.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
其實訴訟法的規定我相信父母也很清楚知道相關的規定這未來如果說繼續讓這些案子延誤下去然後造成又是陳水扁的案子免訴他現在已經有個案子已經免訴了是要繼續往下面拖嗎拖到另外三個案子全部都免訴嗎好我認為這個問題其實很嚴重他真的是涉及到國人對於司法的公信力 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5882.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5910.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
不要再這麼消極下去接下來我還再問一下有關於軍審的問題賴清德總統他在最近的賴17條裡面他特別有提到要恢復軍事審判本席想了解其實就目前法院審理有關於軍人案件的狀況是有治安難行之處嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5912.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5927.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
你們認為說法官有沒有能力可以去處理有關於涉及到國安的案件涉及到就是軍人違反陸海空軍刑法一般刑法或是違反國家安全等等這些案件 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5929.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5955.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
好那個謝謝委員就是有關於就是軍事審判現在未來就是那個制度的那個規劃我們會那個尊重就是相關那個權責機關他們的那個的那個決定啊那有關於這個部分呢就是在102年就是那個軍事審判法第一條那個規就是規定修改了之後那還有就是後來的那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5956.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5982.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
國安法19條規定了之後呢其實司法院都有因應成立了相關的那個專庭那我想這一個部分呢就是我再提一點司法院的基本立場因為有關於就是軍事審判呢我們會遵循就是大法官會議解釋436曾經做過那個解釋啊他就說那個憲法第9條人民除了現役軍人之外呢不受軍事審判那這個並不是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5985.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
6001.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
軍事審判機關對於軍人的犯罪有專屬的審判權那有關於這個建制呢憲法沒有明文規定這個事實上是以法律規定那但是呢一定是要那個符合正當法律程序那所以我想 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
6002.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
6021.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
如果司法院必須要提是當時候提供意見的時候呢我們也會就是依就是說未來建制希望是可以就是就這個獨立跟公正還有專業性朝這個方面去建構謝謝好因為本席有看到就是你們其實在112年還113年的時候其實有修過你們的這個業務辦法事務分配規則所以看起來你們自己目前內部應該也有專股或者是有這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
6032.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
6057.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
專門的國安軍事法庭但只是說想了解你們這些法官有接受相關的專業訓練嗎有的那個依法一年是要接受12個小時那個訓練那我們也都每年都有固定開課今年呢剛剛在那個三月間的時候那個辦過那也有那個研討會就是邀請那個國安單位的那個人跟我們那個法院端一起來研討案例 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
6058.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
6076.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
好的 所以從複密這邊的角度就是聽到您剛的說明那看起來就是說其實普通法院基本上還是有能力可以去處理相關的案子而且法官也積極地充實相關的知識所以有沒有必要真的全部恢復軍事審判我認為說這個地方還有值得 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
6082.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
6097.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
這個去深思的這個必要那當然我也期待就是現在國防部就我了解現在國防部自己自己單方面的在提有關於軍事審判法的相關的修法那我也希望司法院能夠加入一起討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
6097.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
6115.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
如果說真的有必要要恢復軍事審判那就是看在什麼樣程度之下是在普通法院底下設置專庭或者是說是透過軍法官參審制而這部分的話司法院都跟司法院有關所以我希望你們能夠積極的參與討論好 以上謝謝好 謝謝翁委員那下一個我們請審法會委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
6137.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
6141.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
好 主席我們請司法院副秘書長麻煩副秘書長委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
6146.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
6166.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
副議長好,有關於今天的議程,有關刑事訴訟法的部分修正條文我想這些部分,事實上大家有滿高度的共識,我相信沒有什麼爭議今天利用這個機會,我就來跟我們司法院來探討幾個我個人比較關心的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
6168.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
6186.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
首先我們在2017年8月的四改國事會議裡面,我們那時候有關於完善行事正路的保管制度在2017年8月,四改國事會議就做成這樣子的決議2017年到現在,2025,經過這麼多年 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
6191.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
6210.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
我想了解說我們有關於這個完善刑事證物的保管制度我們到底做了什麼做了什麼樣的制度上面的變革不要講2017年我們從2020年我們監察院監察院他就有在109年度提出這個通案性的案件調查報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
6211.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
6239.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
也同樣提及有關我們目前刑事案件的這些賬物證物的這些檔券的保管的這個調查研究報告這裡面這個就各機關就這些證物扣押物的這些保管處所他的規定他的列管字號這些相關的這個對於這樣子目前這些證物 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
6240.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
6260.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
照顧他的這些運送包括他的運送包括他的勾基的成本等等是不是能夠這個這個減少這樣證物滅失他掉包的風險還有有助於確保證物的統一性這些部分我們目前我們就從這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
6263.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
6279.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
2020年監察院調查報告到現在也是四年多的時間這四年多的時間我們通盤煎熬的情形是不是請副民長報告一下好 謝謝委員垂詢確實委員問的這問題是一個很重要的問題因為在偵查中就是這些張證物他是屬於那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
6283.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
6299.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
檢查機關他們所保管那到了那個起訴之後呢依規定是要送到那個院方來那所以就是相關的這些那個規定呢就是法院端呢也都有完善相關的那些那個制度什麼樣的完善什麼樣的完善制度說來參考看看 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
6300.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
6325.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
我們分別就是它是在幾個法律底下規定的一個是台灣高等法院及所屬各法院的章政務的管理要點還有一個是第三人保管扣押物的管理要點還有一個是法院處理扣押物的陰性注意事項這裡頭也都有把這些相關的就是說它怎麼去列冊 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
6326.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
6349.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
重要的這些證物它又有一些特別的一些那個比較嚴肅的一些程序這個包括司法國會一直到監察院的報告那時候都認為應該要建立一個國家級的專業的單一的證物保管機關這樣子的方向我們有沒有在研擬這樣的方向你來講好了 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
6353.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
6360.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
國家級的專業的單一的政務保管機關而不是像現在用這個管理要點下去下去這個簡單的由這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
6365.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
6391.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
法官或書記官來保管證物委員好 那有關這個部分我們有跟這個正在跟行政院這邊在修刑事訴訟法的140條這個部分就是有關證物 章證物保管的相關問題那我們有也有參加研議這個所研修經濟證證物監管制度的有12次我們開到第12次的會上上個禮拜3月24號才剛開過好我知道這個過程這個過程應該你們有你們可能開過很多次會那我只問 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
6396.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
6403.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
這個其他你們可能開過很多智慧希望能夠完善這個制度但是我再問一個問題就是說有關於各界建議認為應該應該要建立國家級專業單一的政務保險機關我們有沒有這樣的方向 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
6411.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
6437.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
沒有 到目前為止沒有目前在研議的過程中還沒有出現在沒有是 只讓我們會再把委員意見我現在講的這些都還是傳統的證物跟賬物我們在這個去年的7月16號我們通過通過這個這個有關於強特殊強制處分的相關規定也就是所謂科技偵查的這些現在科技新型態的這些證據證物這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
6441.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
6468.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
他的未來他有可能有可能這個被篡改被銷毀在過程中這個影響他這個證據的統一性的可能性更大我們連傳統的證物的目前的這些相關的這些保管制度我們都還沒有完善的建立目前的這些有關科技偵查特殊強制手段他所得的這些資料我們的相關保管我們現在有什麼樣的規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
6471.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
6479.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
向委員報告因為就是施行這個特殊的強制處分是由偵查機關或者是偵查輔助機關所發動的所以說他取得這些資料是屬於偵查資料偵查之後你進入法院 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
6492.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
6510.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
起訴之後他就這些證物一樣跟卷宗一併就交給你們法院是不是交給法院之後我在講的是進入審判程序之後由法院來保管這些相關的科技偵查的資料目前有建立什麼樣的制度嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6514.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6535.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
跟委員報告一下關於數位證據的部分我們透過司法聯盟鏈這個部分讓大家上網再用一個透過所謂的加密這種方式或是賀許值的這種部分來確認它的同一性這部分這個司法聯盟鏈已經跟法務部我們去年修法的這個刑事訴訟法第153條第153之10條裡面的這個第5項有授權 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6542.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6566.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
授權這個這個依本章實施調查方式所得資料的程序管理及銷毀銷毀陳報通知等等這些的相關辦法由司法院會同行政院定制由這個第五項之後授權之後我們這個這個司法院訂定的刑事訴訟法特殊強制處分執行辦法對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6567.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6592.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
是不是這個是我講的你們所謂的法律依據在這裡但是你們法律依據裡面的你們這個強制處分執行辦法裡面的特殊強制處分執行辦法裡面的這個第13條第13條第4項裡面有提到前項科技設備所屬公司部門或其他機關應訂定有關設備使用人員之資格限制 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6593.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6617.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
領用器材之內容工作日誌清澈使用期間相關規定這些東西這些相關的機制目前建立了沒有目前我們有請他們做相關的所以就是還沒有吧我們的執行辦法已經發下去那各單位也配合在執行辦法發案我在這講執行辦法裡面第13條第4項所規定的這些相關規定你們做了沒有這些 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6622.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6646.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
其他機關應該訂定關於設備使用人員資格限制包括領用之器材內容工作日誌還有你這個使用期間等相關規定這些規定規定了沒有這個是由各執行機關規定那你們有沒有看上次在刑事警察局那邊他們說有關相關的規定他們都已經建置完畢了 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6647.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6661.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
是刑事警察局的部分啦其他的單位部分我們會繼續再追蹤其他最重要的是我現在要講的就是說我們現在目前的這個刑事證物的保管制度從傳統的這些證據保管一直到 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6662.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6675.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
現在這些特殊強制處分的這些科技的這些證物這些目前我們整個保管的制度事實上是大有問題啦那事實上也很多各方都認為說有關這些相關的證物應該要建立 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6679.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6705.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
一個單一的國家專業的國家的證據的這個保存的機關事實上從過去的許多案例我們看到太多太多的案例司法案例他就是因為這個整個證據證據的過程他的滅屍那造成這個判決上面的爭議這個從過去到現在一直是這樣所以司改國是會司改國是會不是吃飽沒事幹 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6708.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6713.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
來對我們的這個目前的這些證據相關的保管的這些措施提出建言 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6714.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6740.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
那我希望這個部分還是要把它法制化啦要把這個我們的刑事證物的這些保管制度還是應該要把它法制化啦那我希望說司法院是不是能夠在三個月裡面來邀集相關的機關包括這個民間團體來針對我國證物保存跟監管制度我們延伸整個目前法制檢討的會議好不好司法院能不能這樣做 三個月內 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6741.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6754.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
我們會議委員的指示辦理那剛才我們前面委員的質詢裡面也提到有關於這個國安目前的這些國安案件的相關的這些我知道啦 目前我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6755.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6766.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
有我們的法院有這個九個地方法院有設置專庭國安專庭那有19個19所法院有設立這個專股還有9個專庭19個專股那我們相關的這些這些我調你們的資料目前這些 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6780.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6802.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
這些專庭專股的這些法官他們也必須也過去我們也從109年度開始我們就已經辦理相關的這些國家安全的研習會每年好像每年109 110每一年都有辦理國家安全的研習會那我看到這個我們這個表上面我們目前的參與人數從109年20人 110年15人111年45人參與 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6810.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6829.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
112年12人參與整個加起來總計從109年到114年總計有167個人參與這167個人參與是不是有沒有重複的參與就是說我每一年都報名或者是說我可能報名了兩次或三次還是說我們現在目前看到167人是 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6832.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6859.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
我看到的是人次 就每一年辦理下來的人次那究竟這個參與的狀況目前有曾經參與過我們國家安全研習會的人數有沒有統計有沒有重複這個情形我們現在這個統計數上面是沒有辦法這個看不出來我就是因為看不出來我才問你那這個我們如果委員需要的話我們會進一步再去抓這個資料那這裡面也看到包括111年度 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6861.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6873.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
突然從前一年度15人增加到45人那114就是今年度也突然從去年44人增加到將近一倍的79人那這是有沒有什麼特別的 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6875.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6901.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
了解有什麼特別的因素這個是因為司法院深深體會到說這個國安的那個案件法官一定需要那個專業所以說我們也就是大力的去那個宣達那在今年呢就是說我們除了今年本來是預定只有三月這個梯次可是我們後來又增加了一個設計了一個完全不同的課程在六月又多增加了一個班不好意思我時間已經超過一段時間了那我最後我是希望 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6902.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6923.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
有關我們每一年度辦理這個研習法官最後我們都有一個學員的意見調查意見的調查統計都有這裡面大家反映出來有關學員的意見調查他們都反映出在實際審理國安案件的時候有關於目前的實地教學參訪 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6925.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6929.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
他們認為有高度的參考價值有關實地的教學參訪這個部分我們是不是能夠增加每年度我們辦理的實地教學參訪的次數 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6941.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6965.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
因為根據學員的回饋認為說這些實地教學參訪是對他們的這個判決是非常有幫助的那我們是不是增加能夠有考慮來增加這個實地教學參訪的次數同時我也希望說我們這個辦理之後我們能夠評估每一次這個實地教學的這些學習成果好不好我希望說這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6965.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
6973.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
我希望我們司法院來考慮不好意思佔用大家的時間謝謝沈委員那下一位我們請莊瑞雄委員發言謝謝召委有請我們法務部麻煩法務部測長徐次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
6992.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
6995.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
委員長市長有幾個問題來請教我以我們2022年九候一選舉為例就我們法務部受理了6858件的一個賄選案成功的起訴的是1353件 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
7013.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
7036.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
還起訴的102件但是呢這個就怪了我們這個檢舉的時候都有檢舉獎金嘛那我們所訂的一個規矩裡面是你只要檢察官提起公訴以後你就合法獎金四分之一嘛那經過一審二審有罪判決以後再給四分之一那最終有罪判決確定以後再發放剩餘的獎金那我要問的就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
7038.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
7043.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
這個整個獎金的發放你們到底有沒有去關注是不是太過落後了 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
7044.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
7072.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
跟委員報告因為選舉獎金必須要非常審慎的查核因為有時候會發生說說檢舉的時候同時有人檢舉那我們又要判斷先後哪一個人對於偵查案件是有實質幫助包委這個沒有審查好的話將來我們就會承擔很大的所以問題就是我們的規定是把它規定說起訴了以後你要罰四分之一我懂你的意思我怕你 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
7073.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
7078.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
擔心說 哎喲 鬧雙胞啊 那個也減肌啊那個也減肌啊 但是你也撼得太多了嘛你這個成功起訴 你就跟這個還起訴的部分 你就將近的一千三百 將近一千四百件欸可是你核發的獎金才312件欸我的意思就是說 這個要特別謹慎啦謹慎說到底是哪一些人 因為有因跟有果嘛因為這個檢舉人 他所檢舉而導致這個案子來做一個破案 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
7102.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
7123.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
就對整個案件的偵查他有一個協力 他有來幫忙這也是我們這個整個獎金發放的一個制度可是問題是你如果弄到最後跟法律的明文的規定起訴起訴了以後解四分之一你起訴的案件這麼多可是呢你真正你給的案件差又不到四分之一 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
7124.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
7137.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
會不會有這個問題因為不是每個案子都有人檢舉不是所有的案子都所以不能用起訴的量來看合法獎金的量我現在就是有人檢舉我不知道跟你說我檢舉完之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
7140.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
7157.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
這個部分我們因為是層級就是從地檢署開始層級往上層爆那我們也都盡量來簡化它的流程那我們也會要求各省級增加那個審核人力我們會要求審核的效率要提高那當然啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
7157.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
7184.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
但是我們還是有原則 我的意思是說人民願意冒這樣的一個風險去做一個對於這個不法來做一個檢舉 尤其是選舉的一個案件我們政府理當給予他是按照法律的規定給他回饋 這也合理啦這也合理啦那另外呢 我又來就教了就是說這個部分可能就要請司法院司法院那個法務部請回 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
7186.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
7200.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
針對這個鑑定制度我要來請教副秘書長就是說我們整個刑務訴訟法的鑑定制度修法就是說2017年的司法改革國是會議對於鑑定因為鑑定對判決影響非常大甚至 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
7202.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
7222.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
也在講說這個鑑定人等於是穿白袍的一個法官法官你不可能所有的專業知識全部都知道我們就必須要委託去做一個鑑定所以鑑定人在司法審判中他確實有很大的一個影響力可是呢新制啊我看我們新制通過以後啊他就變成鑑定人的資格也更明確了那也 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
7223.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
7245.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
具有實務的一個經驗那當事人也可以去選任鑑定人那提升那個對等性鑑定人的具名並揭露利益關係鑑定人可接受交誤結問促進公平的一個審理這個都新制的一個重點但問題來了問題就你那個我們現在整個醫療的一個鑑定陷入了一個僵局就制度卡關 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
7247.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
7273.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
為什麼會這樣子 我相信副秘書長或者這個次長這邊也很清楚啊你醫師要去據名跟接受結問 這個壓力真的是太大你整個鑑定的報告 變成工坊的一個焦點如果說以各位是醫生的話 你可以體會得到公親告別要變屬住啦那我們現在全國的法官跟檢察官我們去送請的案件以後 三百件 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
7273.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
7287.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
全部都被退件所以我要就較我們司法院這個地方今年在2月跟3月還有去年的11月你們召開了這樣的一個諮詢會議你們到底有沒有具體的改善措施 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
7290.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
7316.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
謝謝委員那個垂詢因為就是如同委員所剛所講的就是說他新的刑事訴訟法那個規定事實上是有他要追求的那個目的那當然那在那個執行的時候呢現在目前就是最主要的是那個醫審會這個部分就是認為說那個就是要具名這個部分就是有很大的一些那個阻力 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
7316.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
7345.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
那所以就是目前我們那個司法院有提出那個兩個那個措施一個呢是就是說在他們在接受這個機關鑑定的時候這個具名呢是可以用隱匿的就是用那個隱匿封那個封間的那個方式迷風迷風對用迷風那還有一個就是說他們如果那個到庭來的時候呢事實上也可以就是說用遠距訊問然後不揭露他們的那個姓名的這種那個方式 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
7346.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
7362.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
或者是甚至於用辨因或是指認式這些那個方式我要問的就是說副院長你認為這樣的一個改進措施真的就有辦法達到目的嗎人之常情如果你是醫生你也不愛啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
7364.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
7380.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
醫界這個圈子就這麼小啦我要去具名那有時候稍微不慎就會影響到這個他自己醫生的一個聲望那傳得很快啊這圈子本來就是小啊你看根據這個我看這個醫事人員的一個這個他們整個一個調查裡面啊10%的人10%的人今天要出庭有這個醫院只有10%那你鑑定報你的鑑定報怎麼太多出庭禮物我們現在多少都沒改還是500塊 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
7394.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
7415.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
這個部分我們現在有那個研議其實一線型的司法院裡有一些那個辦法呢事實上也可以用就比較高的一個專家諮詢五千到那個一萬那我們現在也在跟現在我們也在跟那個各法院那個那個就是那個不答這一些那個事情啊那以前就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
7416.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
7438.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
醫事鑑定這個部分呢它是整個那個收費裡面包括的兩個費用一個是實施鑑定 還有一個是那個出庭那我們現在也去宣達說出庭的這個部分呢就先不要收然後到庭的時候呢我們把它提高它的費用直接給就是到庭的那個醫生用這種方式民長你可不可以大膽預測一下你覺得這個措施出來以後能改善多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
7439.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
7461.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
我們現在正在跟他們對話,所以說3月19號的那個諮詢會裡面,那時候有做一些溝通,那有一些那個醫院他們事實上是願意的,對這個問題我是非常擔憂,真的是非常擔憂,這個法律人法律人的思考,醫生也有醫生的思考,本人不愛人 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
7463.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
7484.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
好人要賣 台灣人在說會嫌棄去給我好心氣 到時候又站在那邊被檢察官解問一下被律師解問一下 法官又問一下弄得不好的話 他的整個圈子就是太小這個還是要不斷的精進啦因為確實要去解決問題啦那另外啊 我最主要還是要對於這整個 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
7485.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
7509.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
那個精神障礙的犯罪嫌疑人這個部分這個強制處分的部分雖然短短的時間但是也要來糾正幾個問題我們現在鑑定留置的天數最長達兩個月那實務上到底是不是這麼長這個很大的一個疑問那你現行制度你只可以裁定去縮短卻沒有辦法去裁定撤銷那變成鑑定留置就形成一種 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
7510.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
7536.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
羈押啦 會形成一種羈押那另外呢就是說我們提到的暫行安置啊是在補充羈押的一個不足那避免精神障礙的被告對社會造成的一個風險可是如果你去把它做比較啊你說偵查階段四個月一審十五個月 二審十五個月 三審五個月可是你暫行安置每次六個月捏最長你達到五年捏那你鑑定留置的天數又沒有辦法折抵啊你可能會導致嫌疑人可能被關押更久 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
7537.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
7560.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
那當然制度的設計就是說防範整個這個被告或者犯罪嫌疑人對這個社會產生的一個衝擊的一個風險可以體會知道這個可是問題如果你稍微你看很多個案你會發現這個對被告來講或者犯罪嫌疑人來講的話會不會對他們人權上也是一種剝奪 請教 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7563.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7565.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
副秘書長你來談這個應該是最有辦法談的 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7569.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7596.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
因為戰刑安置因為它的性質上是屬於保安處分當然它屬於保安處分可是那個是一個補充性尤其是戰刑安置的部分你的前端跟後端其實這個因為時間的問題不能繼續要問下去我們這個司法精神醫院的部分你們建制什麼時候完成還有很多成效的問題這個都是整套啦但是我今天特別提出來就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7597.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7602.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
真的是有一些個案聽起來也都很沒有道理啦很沒有道理這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7604.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7632.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
真正的刑期沒有那麼長只因為這個前面我們為了整個防範的社會風險又沒有人敢說他不對可是這個制度的一個設計對人身自由的一個剝奪這個都實質上都已經造成重大的一個衝擊應該必須要再去好好的去做研議看怎麼樣來思考更好的一個制度否則兩個之間你說叫我們怎麼取捨立法院這個地方沒有人敢跟你講說不要這樣做 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7635.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7648.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
事會大眾會罵可是你用個案來看的話你去把它檢視個案我就發現有些個案確實是有很多不合理的地方好不好好 謝謝謝謝委員謝謝莊委員那我們現在請翁委員代理主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7672.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7700.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
好 接下來有請吳委員請問主席 我想會議詢問一下就是因為剛剛有一點我剛剛主持會議的時候有一點小衝突因為主要就是說我想要確認一下我們委員會那委員在質詢的時間內如果問的問題跟本日的議程不一樣那到底可以還是不可以因為之前吳世耀委員他其實曾經就委員在 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7701.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7722.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
他的時間內然後詢問官員跟今日的議程不一樣的題目他當時一直抗議那因為今天他問的東西也跟今日的議程完全不一樣所以我剛剛只是要就這個會議程序的部分我想說做一個確認那我不知道主席這部分主席有什麼想法 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7723.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7745.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
我想依照過去不管是民進黨委員或是國民黨的委員在主持私委會的相關會議的時候其實主席都會尊重委員在時間內的發言通常不會去干預委員在質詢的時間裡面的任何的發言內容 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
7746.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
7771.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
好 謝謝 因為剛剛喔因為剛剛我其實我是公正的在主持會議那我認為這個是一個會議的這個怎麼進行的問題這其實跟所謂的政治鬥那個惡鬥或者是什麼並沒有關聯性我只是要確認一下而且確認之後就是適用於每一個委員而不是特定委員可以 特定委員不行所以我想我剛剛指這個那我不知道為什麼剛剛有人會 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
7773.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
7798.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
這麼大發脾氣然後連那個髒話都罵出來那我也在這邊補充一下就是說罵人家垃圾在實務的判決是構成公然無路我想說這可能跟其他委員提醒一下不是說罵人垃圾就沒事情罵人垃圾其實是構成公然無路尤其在國會殿堂裡面身為一個國家的中央級的民運代表在那邊大吼大叫拍桌子罵髒話其實 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
7800.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
7819.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
這個作為就是讓人家去取笑說到底我們國會議員的水準在什麼地方那當然當然社會本來對國會議員的期待這段時間可能大家也都心裡有數啦但是我還是希望說我至少我會這樣要求我自己我就是在國會開會的時候委員會開會的時候其實 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
7823.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
7842.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
除了最基本的要求自己要言之有物之外也要懂得控制情緒尊重別人更不可以說在那邊還罵別人在法律上面實務上面已經判決非常多的判決認定這個會構成公然污辱的事情那如果說可以隨隨便便就這樣的話那台灣 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
7844.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
7851.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
國會其實會讓世界看笑話這我想說這是我剛剛的會議詢問那我就確認一下在我們的詢問的時間內其實我們就是尊重委員的發言好 謝謝我想就是剛剛這個莊瑞雄委員他說他的不當發言其實這個讓人家看笑話這個整個這個國民黨對不起我剛剛不是莊瑞雄委員對不起我剛剛說錯了剛剛是審發會委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
7870.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
7891.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
他的不當發言是讓這個社會在看笑話立法委員作為社會的一個表率我覺得應該是在任何的場合裡面都要謹慎發言不可以有任何的暴力或是辱罵的這樣的一個行為那麼像我們昨天在立法院的院會裡面也是看到這柯建民總召 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
7892.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
7908.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
這個暴力這個拿棍子去敲桌子然後甚至還波及到還傷害到了這個徐曉新委員其實這些都是非常不當的言行那我們希望我們未來在市委會的會議的場合裡面呢都能夠大家能夠尊重 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
7910.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
7933.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
我也跟主席及在座的各位委員還有各位報告就像民進黨最喜歡說最近對於那個中配那個雅雅案一直說言論自由不是毫無限制這個邏輯一樣言論免責權也不是毫無限制你不能動不動對人家罵髒話像剛罵我垃圾我是覺得我在那邊說我不會去提告啦因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
7934.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
7950.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
因為你自己是不是個垃圾自己心裡很清楚那你罵別人垃圾到底誰是垃圾我想說就算了我就我不會去提告好謝謝好那我們麻煩司法院法務部以及刑事局委員好是謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
7959.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
7970.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
好 謝謝三位我想說在座我以前的長官還有以前一起合作辦過很多案子的副局長先說很高興在這邊能夠看到各位 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
7972.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
8001.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
那謝謝我先請教一個問題我想說我們今天討論的主題是對於這個草案就是有關逮捕到案的犯罪嫌疑人我們要對他進行非侵入式的採尿那這個需要得到檢察官同意讓檢察官來保留和發許可書但是呢我看到一個問題就是我們實務上面有非常多的案子都必須對這個被告進行採尿的這個動作像毒販或是像甚至其他的刑案有時候當事人在抗辯 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
8002.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
8022.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
他可能是吸毒後所為那他在量刑上面可能會有所不一樣這個時候採尿都變成一個很重要的證據我想三位都是實務界所以非常的能夠理解但是呢這次司法院跟行政院的版本最大的不同就是檢察官許可書就甲官保留的這個甲官許可書要 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
8023.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
8038.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
就是說另外要不要送交執行機關還有那個受採尿人有沒有需要送達我想先請教一下司法院為何司法院在草案裡面有提到要送交執行機關以及受採取人 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
8041.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
8059.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
這個部分剛才在報告中有說到就是說我們現在規定的這個送交呢它是採在刑事訴訟法相同的這些規定的那個法例像是34條之一限制辯護人還有羈押被告接見通信的這個限制書 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
8060.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
8075.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
那還有這103條執行羈押的押票這我們事務上最常做的就是這個押票那還有203條之二的執行留置鑑定留置的這個鑑定留置票你們目的是什麼要送達的目的是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
8077.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
8097.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
因為這是讓受採取人呢他可以真正的就是說收到這一份那個書那從這邊來開始就是作為那個 夫妮那我想我聽懂的話就是當事人起算救濟時間嘛是明確的救濟時間我想說司法院是這個理由但是呢我想我請教一下副局長 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
8098.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
8114.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
實務上面這個有沒有辦法執行因為法務部跟我看了一下行政院跟市長院的版本不一樣是差在這個地方那警察在執行上面有沒有困難如果說每一份產料書都要送達執行機關跟當事人跟委員報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
8115.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
8142.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
警察執行不是說有困難在很多包括我們的搜索扣押包括鑑定許可書事實上我們去都是出示我們這些搜索票或是許可書讓他確認這樣的程序那我覺得警方在執行的時候如果能夠有一致的標準對於警察基層尤其是派出所的員警如果在執行這方面的話比較不會混淆而且這個現在已經限縮到他已經是 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
8143.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
8163.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
逮捕到案的人而且有相當理由等等這些我想對於整個自由權的侵犯會比較輕微已經比較輕微了這跟這個壓票啦或怎麼樣我相信他的侵害權是不太一樣那我想就是說我先跟三位報告一下我自己的實務經驗在第一線因為我為錢帶隊搜索非常多次 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
8165.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
8194.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
就很多人知道我以前曾經帶隊搜索被開過槍那還好沒打到我我要講的是第一線執行跟司法院在辦公室想的其實是有一個差距那當然當事人是不是可以提醒救濟這個起算時間點我們也要予以重視但是呢是不是檢察官其實他告知要採尿其實這個時間點就可以起算了而不需要說明確要收到那個許可書不以收到許可書那個時間點 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
8196.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
8216.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
他才能夠保障他的救濟的起算時間其實檢察官做這個處分的時候他當時聽到了這個也是算是起算這不是對當事人也很有保障嗎所以這個是我提出來因為司法院的意思是說這個是要確認當事人救濟的時間點當然在食物運作上面我自己的食物經驗其實 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
8217.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
8239.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
你要另外再要求那個警察機關再去做一個這個動作可能是多此一舉因為對於這個處分告訴當事人這個時間點是可以確定的譬如說筆錄可以確定譬如說現場拍攝的影片可以確定所以有沒有必要一定要做這個送達 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
8240.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
8266.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
這會增加很多行政成本增加很多郵遞的費用以及增加那個當事人將來的一些就是他可能救濟上面一些問題我覺得不一定說一定是好的所以這個部分可能再麻煩司法院跟法務部這邊能夠溝通市長我補充一點就是說這個送交這個要給執行機關跟受採尿的人的話這個要件一旦放進去可是跟前面的205之一條件是不一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
8267.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
8285.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
第一線的警察如果弄混的時候那將來這一個沒有送交簽名這個動作沒有送交這個動作會直接影響到證據能力的問題這個也是我們擔心的地方弄混了以後反而後面的非侵入性的材料會被懷疑有證據能力的問題這個我是我們擔心的 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
8287.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
8300.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
所以我自己在看這個的時候我也會覺得說這個在實務上面反而會困擾自己所以說思考院就這個部分可不可以再思考一下看草案是不是一定要放入這個因為這在第一線執行上面將來會有一些麻煩發生 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
8302.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
8325.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
因為我自己看完之後我也覺得這個沒有必要而且對當事人的保障其實起算時間一定很明確啦就檢察官的處分時間點啦所以真的有需要再多一個送達來去保障嗎那我想說行事案件的偵辦同時要維護社會公義以及被告的當事人的程序正義那這兩個權衡之下我是建議過可以再討論這個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
8328.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
8352.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
跟委員報告 司法院這部分是開放的就是我們會多聽從那個大家的意見更何況我們今天他是對於非侵入式的採尿如果侵入式當然我們可能意見就會比較多非侵入式的這個採尿其實而且是當事人自己排尿的有沒有必要乘以保障到會讓第一線的執行機關不好執行我想是這個我們可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
8353.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
8375.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
我們今天任何一個法律的立出來是要對國家社會有貢獻這才有意義而不是無限上綱的那個權力保障這是我個人的前見好那我在這部分我想麻煩法務部也能夠一個禮拜內給我一個演繹就是有關這個部分好謝謝法務部那我再請教一下司法院那司法院這軍事審判那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
8376.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
8387.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
最近一直在吵這軍審判的問題啦那我想請問一下今天排審的法案之所以要修法我們也是為了提升正當法律程序對不對今天的議案 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
8389.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
8404.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
沒問題嘛當人民接受司法機關偵查審判的時候其實我想對他的程序保障最重要的最重要就是我們要讓他在一個正當程序保障之下來接受訴訟來進行訴訟這個很重要嘛所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
8409.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
8432.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
我們先告訴國人一件事情今天軍人犯罪的話那是不是他還是實體法部分適用軍事審判法程序上面改用刑事訴訟法現在是這樣對不對那你知不知道當初廢除我們暫停軍事審判法適用的原因是什麼你知道嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
8434.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
8452.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
這個部分是在那個民國102年的時候呢可能就是國人就是大家對於就是說軍事審判的部分對於那個正當程序的要求是不是能夠那個達到這個部分大家有一些檢討就是因為當時我們覺得我們我國的軍事審判他的程序保障的嚴謹度 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
8454.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
8471.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
是低於刑訴送法我想這個是沒有爭議的那這個也就是這個原因所以當年民進黨以及當年非常多的國人他認為說我們軍審辦法先暫停適用非暫時我們就是讓他受到普通法院的那個程序保障 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
8472.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
8488.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
也就是因為這個原因所以有非常多的案子就是我記得好像是反滲透法類的啦還是這類的案子好像現在都沒有一個確定判決出來很久了嘛所以我認為就是司法審判 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
8489.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
8509.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
普通法院的司法審判其實他的要求嚴謹度是很高所以他不會像軍事審判很快就判出來了那因為他的嚴謹度要求很高其實對當事人是一個保障啦那我個人是覺得說這些軍人也是大家的小孩而且大部分的軍人都是在20歲上下而已也是國人的小孩啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
8509.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
8527.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
那我們讓他受到比較完整的程序保障到底錯在哪裡為什麼我們要走回頭路這是我個人的意見那當然我知道您現在的位置也不方便就這個表達意見所以我想說我的認為就是為什麼我們要從一個保障嚴謹的 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
8529.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
8557.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
司法程序要走回保障不夠嚴謹的司法程序更何況當年改的就是強力主張的就是現在的執政黨 民進黨而且現在又是民進黨希望把它改回軍事審判這個我想也要讓國人知道這個是蠻莫名其妙的而且對國家到底它的好處在哪裡其實我也想不通啦那我再請教一下那現在法院裡面是不是有設那個國安軍事專業案件的專股 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
8559.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
8587.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
有設專股或是專庭每個法院都有設嗎每個法院都有設好那我現在還是一個邏輯就是說目前有立法委員批評說這些法官不夠專業那我想如果我是不同說一輩子從事審理審判案件的法官為什麼對於審理案件是不專業我想最多我們能夠說法官比較不專業的地方可能是對於軍中的文化比較不熟悉但是用這個理由去批評他不夠專業 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
8590.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
8599.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
我想說對於國安的一些東西比較不熟悉用這個去批評他不夠專業我想這個邏輯也沒有什麼道理啦所以我不太認同說 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
8601.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
8629.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
有些委員的這個說法啦那更何況我覺得普通法院的審判的獨立性是遠高於軍事法院啦這個我想也沒有國人或是任何一個政治人物敢否認這個道理我想讓國家受到司法官訓練所法官學院出來的這些專業的法官檢察官追訴以及審判這個是保障一個國人最大的程序保障這個是最大的程序保障我想這個才對而不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
8630.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
8657.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
去做一些很奇怪的調整另外就是說 如果在喊說軍人受到滲透那我一個感覺就是說奇怪 阿馬英九時代為什麼沒有軍人受滲透民進黨執政九年就軍隊都被滲透那你這個執政黨在搞什麼鬼為什麼九年了被滲透的這麼嚴重好 那就算我們要去處罰這些被滲透的軍人我們要重判該修的也是陸海工軍刑法而不是程序法的軍事審判法 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
8658.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
8663.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
邏輯也完全錯誤但是現在的政府就會誤導人民一直亂扯亂鬼扯就像剛剛那個次長您回答吳思堯的問題一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
8668.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
8691.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
你們講說我們認為憲判八有一個東西一自覺需要公投他就跟你扯說我們有沒有廢死我一自覺這個問題我有意見跟我國有無廢死有什麼關係第二個他說我們有執行一個死刑啊那怎麼會叫我國廢除死刑這個更是腦殘這是法盲的人講的話不好意思我剛那句話講錯這是法盲的人講的話因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
8695.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
8719.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
執行死刑是對於確定判決去執行死刑能不能下判決是根本還沒有確定判決一審二審三審那個叫做判決所以有沒有一致覺是在法官審理案件的時候能不能夠下這樣的判決這個跟判決確定的案子執行死刑這兩回事嘛怎麼會講說我國有執行一個死刑所以我國沒有廢除死刑 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
8719.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
8744.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
這在法律上面的邏輯是不對所以他剛剛說邏輯他剛剛一直說這個邏輯怎麼樣我想說應該不是說邏輯有瑕疵的問題而是講話的人自己邏輯混亂他自己邏輯搞不清楚事實上這兩個東西是完全不一樣我想各位在場一定聽得懂我在講什麼那有的委員聽不懂就算了我已經我過去一年已經很努力但是我發現努力是對某些人是沒有效果的 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
8745.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
8770.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
所以次長剛剛你回答那個東西我在那邊聽我覺得這兩個東西無關啦所以我不這麼認同啦那因為廢除死刑與否我們從來沒有說死刑被宣告違憲或廢除我們是對於所謂的判決中加以自決這個東西我們希望聽取人民的觀念但是有一些無良的政客他們就喜歡帶風向一直騙人民說我國死刑沒有廢除啊你在公投什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
8771.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
8784.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
然後就亂扯 而對於一個沒有存在的東西進行公投我覺得這個都在騙人民啦這是現在這些政客們他們的每天的工作目的就是一直在騙人民但我對我自己的要求是不說謊 講實話 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
8786.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
8810.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
那今天這個東西即使我講出來對自己不利 我們還是得說實話我不會像有些政客 只為了達到他某些目的 然後就去那邊胡說八道就像他說 他們對外說 昨天什麼晚上開會叫做突襲拜託民眾黨昨天白天就已經送出要會議要延長到晚上12點然後如果是被突襲的話 還會有幾個人拿著那個牌子在那邊說會議無效嗎還有時間去準備那個牌子 事實上在昨天在吃 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
8811.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
8837.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
晚餐便當的時候他們都站一排在那裡準備要衝進來我們也都看到只是我不想跟這些每天造謠說謊的政客混在一起如果這些造謠說謊政客就是我國的中央民意代表的話那其實是中華民國的悲哀因為你中央民意代表每天就是說謊從一路以來從不管是這次談論公投不管是預算的審查等等的外面就是鬼扯蛋胡說八道 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
8838.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
8864.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
然後連總統各部會首長都在騙人這個真是難以想像啦因為我以前我以前以為是行政機關最多做到美化數據至少說出來不會是說謊但是會到現在譬如說洪森漢部長說那個什麼金貼育兒金貼被刪光結果後來發現一毛都沒有刪然後說不是我是口誤這個社會充斥的這種謊言那這國家該怎麼辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
8867.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
8883.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
這我感覺 好那 回到 不好意思回到剛剛我說的就是有關軍事審判這個部分我還是必須這樣講因為這些軍人都是我們的小孩那這是我們的小孩也是我們的國人你今天讓他受到更完整的 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
8884.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
8904.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
成績保障錯在哪裡那不要什麼東西都為了選票把意識形態拉進來其實那個是對不起我們的子子孫孫那最後一個小東西就那個行事局跟司導業先回去最後一個想讓你們不好意思耽誤大家時間就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
8906.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
8935.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
次長 你也是檢察官出身 我也是檢察官出身嘛那次長 以前就是我們的長官 我們都非常的尊重 尊敬次長這個北檢 這次3月12號的北檢新聞稿今年3月12號跟10月22號談論有關就是一位檢察官到醫院就訓審訊被告這件事情那我想請教一下 當然第一個我前提先說這個案子已經起訴法院審理中 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
8935.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
8959.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
所以法務部的檢察官現在不是懲辦的人所以不要再像上一次開會的時候有某幾個立委在那邊喊說干涉個案怎麼可以詢問個案一個已經起訴的案件不是法務部現在在懲辦中了那跟法務部就這個案子的程序瑕疵去討論通案該怎麼解決 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
8961.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
8977.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
不這麼做才是對不起立法委員這個身份怎麼會在那邊喊說干預個案在那邊大呼小叫我覺得這個水準也很不夠也是一個法盲所以我這邊請教一下所以當天這個林姓檢察官去現場到底是訊問還是去視察那過去過去 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
8982.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
8998.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
五年內到底有多少檢察官是去視察那個視察醫院我想請教一下次長113年10月11號這一次是有詢問也有做筆錄那113年10月14號這一次是視察那兩次呢編護人都在場 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
9010.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
9026.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
沒有 辯護人在場我沒有意見啦對那我的意思是說好 那以11號這次來說好了那你還沒有回答我第二個問題請問一下過去五年全國有多少檢察官去視察醫院而且有進行視察的程序這一個數字看守什麼醫院 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
9035.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
9054.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
那看守所的醫院沒有不是看守所 不要跟我講看守所然後這個醫院的部分沒有對 那不要說過去五年啦過去二十年啦我跟你講 我跟上報告可能我財疏血淺但我自己二十年的檢察官生涯裡面我從來沒做過 也沒聽過有同仁去 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
9056.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
9083.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
醫院 正規的醫院去做視察場所的這個視察動作視察跟做筆錄完全不一樣視察是針對這個處所到底適不適合這個在押的被告他在那邊會不會受到人格人性尊嚴上面的侵害嘛所以兩個是不一樣的東西啊那你混在一起講我覺得今天之所以造成那麼大的民眾的糾紛就是這裡那這每一個糾紛都對司法傷害很重 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
9083.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
9101.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
所以我想請問過去20年有人這麼做嗎醫院視察的部分沒有對 所以這就是我講的我再三講我過去20年沒有這樣的例子過那你們不要跟我們談說什麼看守所等等的那個視察那個是日常在做 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
9102.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
9126.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
視察也有視察報告會帶書記官去進行視察報告都會做得很清楚會通知法院會呈報長官我想這個是該做的基本的作為所以我們這邊可以確認一件事過去20年除了這位檢察官曾經做過之外沒有全國沒有檢察官做過這個事情我問過一堆同學他們連聽都沒有聽過這樣子做所以因為這樣所以容易讓人家 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
9127.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
9152.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
而且甚至對於高度爭議案件更容易發生糾紛我不是要譴責那位警察官我只是說請次長注意一下尤其是高度爭議案件政治案件對於程序的要求要求警察官要更嚴謹警察官千萬不能為了辦案為了辦出一個案子升遷不要說辦出案子升遷為了辦出一個案子有成就感而去就程序部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
9153.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
9177.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
亂做 我覺得這是不對的好不好 就是次長這部分要麻煩你們你們一定要做到那如果是去詢問 詢問有沒有全程錄音錄影這個也必須要求全國的檢察官一定要做到我今天給你們看 不好意思最後30秒一個Trace上面的檢察官自己寫的他認為就訊這個就是日常今天為什麼會發生這種事情 就是因為有 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
9179.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
9205.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
有檢察官濫用就訊的這個作為然後導致今天全國的檢察官包括司法受到人民的不信任所以法務部真的要出來處理這件事情你不能放任檢察官在做任何一個案子的偵查我不去論他有沒有政治目的我都不去論而是檢察官你在辦案成功雖然會有成就感但你不能為了成就感而去侵害被告的基本人權 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
9207.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
9217.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
這是完全不對的那這個部分再麻煩這個是罪上面其他檢察官寫的那更不要講檢察官論壇裡面有非常多檢察官批評這件事不好意思耽誤大家時間 謝謝次長下一位 蔡益瑜委員 蔡益瑜委員 蔡益瑜委員好 接下來我們請羅志強委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
9240.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
9264.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
主席有請司法院副秘書長麻煩副秘書長謝謝委員好副秘書長上週已經提出了新的大法官名單對不對是好那想請問您副秘書長你覺得這份名單打幾分有關於大法官的審查我們尊重立法院的職權 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
9265.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
9291.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
對 好 我知道你不會給分啦但是外界似乎給他的分數並不高我先跟這個副秘書長說這份名單提出之後連法界都會有覺得很多的不滿跟質疑那第一個提出質疑的就是全國律師聯合會他認為是甚感遺憾 嫌認不妥你知道原因是什麼嗎為什麼律師聯合會認為是 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
9295.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
9315.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
甚感遺憾這個部分我們就不變評論了我是講事實問題你總要知道目前關於司法狀況的現在的事實狀況我不是問你評論我只是說律師聯合會為什麼認為是不妥你總看新聞有看過這新聞吧有有有對啊他為什麼覺得不妥 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
9316.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
9339.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
嗯 權律會的觀點是認為說這是由檢察官 就是提名的一位檢察官來當司法院院長對啊 這原因一啦其他最重要的是他認為提名的都是檢察官 法官跟學者獨缺律師那事實上依照過去我們確實大法官的組成來講的話這個學者 法官 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
9340.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
9355.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
檢察官 律師都是可能會被提名的大法官人選嘛 對不對所以它中間其實是在這個組成的部分它有它的橫評的部分那顯然這一次我覺得賴清德總統提名的這個大法官的名單 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
9356.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
9381.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
在第一個部分就產生一個失衡那全立會也提到歷來都有學養俱佳的律師獲得大法官提名並擔任大法官職務但這次大法官提名顯然未考量律師於司法制度之重要性及維繫自由民主憲政秩序扮演的角色所以他對此甚感遺憾那這次我覺得是司法院也好或是我這邊也呼籲我們賴清德總統 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
9383.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
9410.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
要把我們這個律師界的聲音聽進去這第一個我認為他提名這一次的大法官非常嚴重的一個我們講憲法上的瑕疵就是憲政提名上的瑕疵他沒有思考到人選的橫平性那第二個我想請教一下副秘書長你知道上一次大法官審查台灣法學會有推薦誰過來記得嗎台灣法學會有推薦大法官的人選有提名 推薦誰 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
9414.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
9432.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
這個也是事實問題 沒有問題評價 有人知道嗎都不知道啊 連推薦單位是誰都不知道劉靜儀教授啦 他就是台灣法學會推薦的 那劉靜儀教授過了沒有過了沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
9435.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
9450.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
這個大家都知道的大家都知道我也想從你嘴巴聽到大家的知道跟你的知道一不一樣過了沒有沒有過為什麼沒過為什麼沒過國民黨沒有投同意啦民眾黨投同意啦但是民進黨怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
9452.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
9469.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
你這樣投反對啊那自己提名自己否決的做法其實也讓法學界其實相當感冒所以我剛剛前面是講律師界律師界對這份名單有意見我現在是要講法學界所以讓很多次任的學界人士不願意被提名 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
9470.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
9498.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
那劉靜儀教授兩天前他在臉書上說他說這次有詢問台灣法學會啊有沒有要推薦大法官幾乎大法官在提名的時候台灣法學會經常都會推薦啦對不對 沒錯吧那結果說只有一位資深學界理監事問了一個他說這個問題很蠢也沒有得到任何回應於是呢大家一路沉默到推薦時間截止也沒有任何會員來要求推薦 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
9500.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
9513.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
你搞到法學界,台灣法學會過去經常推薦大法官他們也心寒,乾脆不推薦了你知道為什麼嗎?副院長你知道為什麼嗎?因為劉靜儀教授這個提名的過程當中就發現說他不受尊重啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
9525.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
9547.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
破壞大法官提名審查的公正跟權威性的是誰就是帶頭反對劉靜儀的柯建銘啊明明齁 其實我們在做大法官審查當然我非常關注大法官對於所謂的死刑是否廢除的態度嘛因為這是全民關心的我當然知道大法官的這個態度是怎麼樣這應該沒問題吧 對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
9550.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
9574.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
關心大法官他對於所謂重大刑事政策的態度應該是我們在審查的時候應該要來了解的嘛 對不對所以嘛 好那換言之其實應該是 比方說針對司法人權價值做專業審查或是針對他過去一些重大的一些不管是人權主張 刑事政策主張我們來做審查嘛可是結果我們親愛的民進黨總召柯建民 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
9577.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
9601.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
他只講了一個理由反對劉靜儀 你記得是什麼理由嗎 只有一個理由反對劉靜儀這也是事實問題啦 但不為難你 我就這樣講出口也很為難你竟然是劉靜儀罵過民進黨 喔 天啊我想請問一下 副委員 這個人總能回答 大法官提名的積極資格是什麼積極資格是什麼 他必須具備什麼資格 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
9604.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
9630.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
這個法律法律有積極資格啊有啊就是他的經歷上對啊對啊積極的那個經歷對資格就是在那個相關你再熟悉一點啦我告訴你啦我也不是叫你背法條但我覺得法律有一個瑕疵它少了一個積極資格它列很多積極資格啊對不對要必須擔任過什麼擔任過什麼嘛積極資格嘛對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
9633.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
9659.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
他列了一個最重要的積極資格啊這個可能趕快要修法還是修憲不管啦不可以罵民進黨積極資格是大法官不可以罵民進黨這就是民進黨提名大法官的積極資格趕快修法列進去我跟副民進黨坦白講真的是非常難看啦劉靜儀這一個民進黨的反對理由就一個他罵過民進黨還甚至喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
9663.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
9689.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
我們柯建民說要祭出黨祭處分如果敢投流禁也要黨祭處分這是最惡劣的人事審查所以這是為什麼今天你看台灣法學會講白了也寒心啊律師界不滿意法學會教授法學會也寒心第二個賴清德提名的一個名單的一個嚴重問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
9692.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
9704.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
然後接下來還有一個問題,您在法界的履歷很完整,我看過了在你擔任法官生涯當中,你認為法官跟檢察官的工作是一樣嗎?各自扮演的角色是什麼?一個是直資審判,一個是偵查一個負責刑事偵查,一個是審判案件 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
9714.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
9741.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
兩者內容跟管轄機關其實都有相當的差別啦對不對 職權也有相當的差別 沒錯吧重心也不太一樣可是呢 這份大法官名單司法院正副院長提名的尤其是院長提名的是台灣高等檢察署主任檢察官蔡秋明那我想請問 你有沒有印象有檢查系統背景的人出任司法院院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
9743.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
9771.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
目前是沒有沒有嘛我們賴清德提名的第一個那你覺得基層法官會怎麼想你也當過法官你覺得這樣設計是正確的嗎這個我沒有辦法替基層法官來回答非常好我也知道你不會回答我要告訴我們副秘書長這是他第三個瑕疵你要去想想看今天大法官的核心任務是什麼請問副秘書長 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
9775.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
9803.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
市縣也就是把那個憲法所那個保障那個價值呢可以透過這些市縣中的保障出來保障價值很多啦 民主憲政嘛 人權保護嘛然後包括說機關權限的這個所謂的一個釐清嘛 對不對我跟你講 其實他偏重的過去為什麼今天司法院的這個院長他鮮少有所謂的檢察官背景不是瞧不起檢察官 這邊這邊講 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
9805.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
9828.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
出身是因為大法官會議來自於司法院的整個設計它非常偏重於一塊叫人權保障對不對大法官不是犯罪偵查機關啦沒錯吧不是吧大法官不是犯罪偵查機關嘛對不對這個總回答得出來吧 秘書長是對嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
9829.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
9848.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
所以因此你把最重要司法院院長我不是說檢察官不好檢察官兢兢業業在前線打擊犯罪我們都很尊重啊但是放在大法官放在司法院尤其是司法院院長這個職務上你就會讓很多人confuse |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
9849.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
9858.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
就這個設計是對的嗎所以在這邊我真的是鄭重的就是給我們賴清德總統一個勸告而且司法院也可以勸勸他啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
9861.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
9884.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
大法官提名是何其神聖的事情這次提名的思考我先不講人選是不是大人選是不是任他到底很多重大的法的政策的主張包括廢死的主張包括對國會改革的主張這加上人事審查我們都會來關心的那叫做第二層次可抱歉這個名單從第一層次就出現三大瑕疵 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
9886.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
9898.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
所以我說實在話整個名單的問題這個賴清德總統如果真的是非常在意大法官的提名的話我真的是誠懇的建議啦趕快另外把它收回去重新提一份 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
9899.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
9927.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
讓大家至少法界安心學界安心對不對也不要弄到說今天人權保障或是說其他我們覺得說司法院院長會產生一個你的整個提名的邏輯不對的這個疑慮嘛所以這次我真的也是因為今天我們司法院代表在我也是真的拜託啦誠心的勸告跟建議賴清德總統真的是太不太不認真了啦怎麼會還不講人選四任性 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
9928.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
9951.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
你光提名人的名單的結構就一塌糊塗這個真的是太噁心了謝謝謝謝委員好 謝謝柏委員那我們現在先宣告因為會議進行到現在都沒有休息那我先做會議的程序宣告稍後在楊委員 瓊英詢問完畢以後我們休息五分鐘我們現在請楊瓊英委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
9963.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
9972.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
謝謝主席 楊秋雲發言我們一併邀請司法院 法務部跟警政署好 麻煩三位上台 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
9977.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
9996.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
針對我們今天修法的主題在我們憲法第114年的憲判制第16號判決當中大法官認定刑事訴訟法第205條之二的規定有抵觸憲法保障資訊隱私權以及免於身心受害 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
9997.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
10013.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
的身體權的情況因此判定了刑事訴訟法有關強制採尿的規定是違憲的那麼因此相關機關單位呢必須要修法以符合憲法的規定那所以在這種情況之下在我們看到宣判違憲 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
10015.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
10042.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
到修法這段時間呢那麼執行的方式大概以非侵入性的方式採取尿液需要報請檢察官合法鑑定許可書後才能夠執行但是如果情況緊迫的時候呢可以依照規定以非侵入性方式來採取尿液但應以採尿後的24小時內呢呈報該這個管的檢察官來許可那檢察官如果認為不應 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
10043.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
10058.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
許可者應於三日內來撤銷受檢查者於受採尿液後十天之內申請該管法院來撤銷所以請教三位在這一次的修法是將上述的規範要落法 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
10060.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
10072.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
所以入法之後要入法所以請教司法院還有我們的警政單位那麼以及法務部在過去兩年多的執行情況究竟為何那麼對於我們整個在實務上的檢警辦案的影響是什麼因為警察機關跟法務部之間 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
10082.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
10092.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
的一個溝通聯繫它是否有即時因為我們認知到保障人權以及維護治安的穩定跟讓檢警辦案的一個狀態它都必須採取到一個平衡點請做說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
10100.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
10122.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
像那個委員報告齁因為在那個1111那個宪判第16號呢他在判決中其實就這個問題就已經有處理了齁就是說在那個修法之前呢從這個大法官的這個判決公告之後呢就要依這個判決他所所以這兩年多就是照這個來執行嗎是是是好那麼法務部呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
10125.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
10151.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
這兩年來我們執行就是申請檢察官許可的有一萬兩千兩百五十八件那緊急採尿以後報許可的有六千五百七十八件所以等於一半嘛對 一半目前執行是這樣是一半 報警檢察官許可那在最後是一半六千多件 原因呢這個可能要第一線執行的好 來 請再說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
10152.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
10171.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
委員好,那個111年,憲判16號完了以後,警政署就已經訂出一個SOP,函令各全國警察機關,按照我們憲判16號來執行也就是說,如果他同意,那同意,告訴他對拒絕,他同意了以後,就直接用非侵入性的來採尿 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
10172.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
10187.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
那如果不同意的話,我們就報警檢察官,全席可輸那如果說因為檢警共用大概我們目前在分配雖然24小時,但我們檢警共用16小時如果他真的不願意,然後時間又緊迫的話那我們就移情到檢察官,讓檢察官回到依他的職權來採尿 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
10189.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
10209.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
依照目前的SOP流程 今天主要是討論怎麼樣的路法所以我們也希望 剛剛我強調了在治安的方面的穩定性以及在執行的方面能夠達到一個平衡點接下來本席要請教上市煙彈 也就是毒品問題 我們來討論司法院請先回座 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
10212.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
10230.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
那這個喪屍煙彈依托彌子持續在國內來盛行去年政府也將它列為二級毒品但是現在的這個新型毒品我一直猖獗所以包括了鎮丙、帕子 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
10231.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
10254.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
也已經在流通那企圖要來規避整個法制的法律的一個制裁當然在上個月法務部也緊急召開了審議委員會經過了專家的評估也確認要認為它是高度成癮性與社會的危礙性有火速的決議要列為二級毒品據聞近期要正式公告 是嗎已經公告了什麼時候公告的 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
10262.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
10286.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
3月24號就前幾天公告那請問市長我們現在面對這些毒販不斷地改版這些新鮮的毒品那我們要怎麼樣應對呢尤其警政署這邊毒物快篩器以及光譜儀這些設備是不是能夠篩選出新的這些毒品它應對夠不夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
10287.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
10297.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
因為你必須要 設備要充足因為它不斷地在熱血液 至少你已經列入二級毒品的部分能不能篩檢出配套措施夠不夠 請做說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
10301.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
10327.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
跟委員報告這個確實新興毒品的試劑對於各個鑑識實驗室來講都是一種挑戰那從去年開始上市驗斷那我們兩個同仁因為被吸毒者撞死了以後然後我們去研究他的盛行率所以我們把從三級提升到二級那證明帕子的部分也把它列入公告了依據在4月3號大概就會會變成二級毒品那這個部分我想 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
10329.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
10348.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
我們昨天才通令各全國警察機關包括刑大還有鑑識單位到我們警政署來接受整個試劑的確認測試我們去年大概在警政署的部分我們大概有編訂了300多萬去做快篩試劑但是新興毒品它必須要有專業性選擇性也就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
10351.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
10365.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
我們要盡量減少它的偽陽性因為這是初篩而已初篩而已剛剛委員講的這些除了初篩試劑還有我們像我們實驗室裡面的機器MAS事實上我們都有在編列預算那逐步的那當然現在能量能除了靠公家機關以外 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
10366.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
10387.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
可能還是沒辦法去負荷這樣的一個鑑定的能量因為我們因為不管是安慰他命 依托彌子等等這些我們都有設定專案的掃蕩所以我們最近才做第12波的案期專案在我們高檢署的指揮底下去執行那因為掃蕩了以後就會有大量毒品進來那就很多的一些鑑定的量能 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
10387.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
10395.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
必須要監聽我們高監署也在協助看其他的我們根據全國認證基金會TAF裡面的認證實驗室裡面這些能夠協助我們全國的警察機關因為3月24號也將這個正品帕子 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
10406.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
10429.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
也列為二級低頻那下個月就開始要執行所以本席也就提出我知道大家辛苦但是我們既然有這個政策方向我們就要怎麼樣好好的能夠去應對那麼你們應該好好去盤點不管是民間的基金會但大家好好能夠讓我們的社會治安能夠更加的穩定謝謝謝謝主委指導好 謝謝楊委員那我們現在休息五分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
10743.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
10765.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
我們繼續開會好下一位請鄭振淺委員鄭振淺委員鄭振淺委員鍾嘉斌委員鍾嘉斌委員鍾嘉斌委員王洪威委員王洪威委員王洪威委員好那我們接下來請陳培宇委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
10771.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
10797.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
好 謝謝主席 那有請司法院跟法務部 麻煩司法院法務部委員您好好 兩位好 午安 委員好我想要就 我等一下可能會提的是個案但是我希望從通案的部分我們來討論好不好 我們不要進入個案但是我的投影片會用個案來舉例第一個例子指的是 這個新聞是2025年3月的 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
10797.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
10823.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
台灣退役軍官再報泄密案那當時其實在相關的案件調查當中就有很多人提醒整個國安系統說過往我們可能以為只有高階軍官會受到影響會受到滲透 會受到吸收但是他們發現在越來越多的案例當中其實觸角都已經延伸到第一階的軍官那甚至在這個案例當中還有相關的研究員指出說 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
10824.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
10848.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
不僅到低階的軍官甚至呢連金流的方法都變得多元了所以在查緝上也有一些新的想像必須要開展那另外國人對這件事情的警覺性也很低所以很多人都提出相關的擔憂甚至呢曾經擔任過國防部政治作戰局文宣新站處的處長已經退休了他都說從2024年看2024年的統計共諜案的他說數量驚人 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
10854.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
10878.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
那我們知道目前他在刑法上他有相關的論述空間可是他認為台灣軍官之所以有這麼多被滲透然後事件層出不窮的原因有一個原因是來自於台灣司法的體系對於情報竊取案件的刑罰太輕缺乏嚴刑峻罰以產生嚇阻效果那我當然只是從2025年報導出來這個案例我們再看下一張 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
10882.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
10885.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
另外一個案例是總統府的憲兵翻拍相關的密件賣給中國一樣被滲透一樣有相關的討論那我剛剛特別拜託說我們不要從個案切入因為今天在這個會場你們也不適合針對個案做相關的評論跟討論可是我們就相關司法系統來看我們看到相關的問題是說過往很多人可能會認為一個可能有量刑太輕的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
10909.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
10924.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
第二個相關的證據扣合的不是那麼緊密所以呢我們在做後續的判決的時候可能每一個法官的想像或者是檢察官的想像的論述不大一樣那我們怎麼看後續未來修法的可能性好 請回答 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
10929.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
10958.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
先跟委員報告就是說那個國家安全法他在那個108年的時候他有個修法那確實就是在修法之前的時候呢他的法定刑並不重可是在修法之後呢他有強化了規範的密度那相對的這些罪行也有提高了他那個法定的刑度那像那個大家所關注的這一個為大陸地區發展組織罪呢他以前修法之前的時候法定刑只有五年以下的有期徒刑 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
10959.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
10979.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
就是最高判五年 是可是修法之後呢他提升到了那個七年以上的那個有期徒刑那所以就是說在那個修法之後就是我們目前就是我們司法院所有的這些那個判決的那個當中呢修法之後這些刑度相對都已經提高很多了 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
10980.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
10988.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
可是你覺得這個相對提高的這個狀態可以符合我們目前台灣所遭遇到這個所謂共諜數量驚人的這個現況嗎就您個人法務上的見解 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
10992.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
11017.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
我覺得這個部分確實就是國安他有他的那個專業性那所以這個部分也是我們司法院就是我們也一直在那個因應的也就是剛才有很多委員垂詢說那我們司法院做了哪一些那個措施就是那我們現在就是一直不斷的加強就是說那個法官在那個國安軍事專庭的這個法官他們要充實他們的那個專業性 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
11018.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
11042.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
他們如何對這件事情是有敏感度的就好像我們在看很多兒少議題的時候我們發現身邊的大人如果對那個環境的敏感度很低我們就會認為他們可能對於相關事件做出來的處理是不符合我們一般人的想像所以如同剛剛您說的相關的人在做出相關的裁處的時候是不是有相關的敏感度我認為這件事情我們應該要更積極的去面對跟做後續的 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
11044.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
11066.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
改進 對嗎好那這個部分呢我們就先討論到這邊因為我相信我們後續一定還會有其他的修法動作我們也很希望看到當有這麼多人提醒我們共諜數量驚人它其實危害到台灣的國安系統危害到我們一般人日常生活的時候我都認為我們身為立法委員或者是你們行政機關應該要積極的面對好那我們來看下一個問題昨天這個新聞我相信兩位一定都非常清楚 對嗎好 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
11072.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
11093.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
我想問一下每一個人對於言論自由的解讀現在不管是民粹或者是不同的政黨的委員或者是不同的等級的民意代表甚至一般的網紅很多人都會對言論自由提出看法我個人認為我們例如說我有行動自由可是我不能因為認為我有行動自由就跑到例如說主席你的家然後說我要住進你家這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
11094.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
11112.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
或者是我有行動自由但是我看誰不高興我就打他一巴掌那言論自由這件事情在台灣我認為多年來常常會有誤用或者是誤解的情況導致到這一次都還有人在談言論自由我可不可以問一下在相關的法規範下你們怎麼看言論自由你們怎麼看這次這個案件法務部 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
11119.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
11147.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
委員好我想言論自由是憲法保障的基本人權但是也不是無限上綱那在衡量公共利益跟其他基本人權的保障呢我們還是會用法律來加以限制那現在目前刑法裡面像鼓吹或善惑他能內亂、暴動內患或者是善惑犯罪其實都有處罰的規定那在最簡單的像公然侮辱或者是誹謗這些也都會有相關的刑責 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
11147.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
11168.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
所以這種考量之下是會用法律加以規範的好 謝謝你的回答 謝謝你特別提到刑法因為這一次我們確實台灣內政部只對雅雅做出行政處分就是請她 因為她是一親她並不是台灣的公民 也不是台灣的國民所以我們只有請她離境我們其實沒有動用到任何跟刑法有關的部分但是我非常謝謝法務部剛剛提到刑法的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
11169.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
11194.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
我覺得這是很重要對於國人的提醒對於相關言論自由定義的提醒這個釐清我認為非常的重要謝謝您的回答我們來看另外一個我們辦公室所長期關心的議題就是關於1085條這件事情我知道我們在去年前年應該有公告要修正對嗎但是後來沒有相關的進度我們可不可以問一下目前的進度跟可能遇到的困境 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
11196.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
11217.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
1085條就是家長對於兒少的管教權這件事情我們是不是現在要確定一下進度主席時間可以幫我暫停一下嗎先暫停先暫停 暫停好 讓他們找一下對的幕僚來回答謝謝主席 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
11220.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
11223.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
所以現在的態度是傾向修法嗎就是這個修法的方向你們可不可以告訴確切的唸出來你們修法條文的內容 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
11243.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
11256.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
1085條 父母保護及教養未成年子女 應考量子女之年齡及發展程度尊重子女之人格 不得對子女為身心暴力行為就是最後這一句 不得為子女為身心暴力之行為 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
11257.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
11277.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
所以之前就有非常多的家長聯盟一些公民團體出來開記者會說他們如果沒有打小孩的權利他們就不知道怎麼教小孩了當時我在教育法委員會我們就告訴教育部說長期以來教育部必須要協助家長進行家庭教育這一塊那如果你們已經送進立法院了那是不是後續法務 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
11279.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
11295.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
這邊怎麼協同教育部做一個跨部會的討論協助家長協助社區協助學校讓大人們學會好好的對待小孩的方法而不是因為收了那一句話叫做不得對兒童有身心相關 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
11296.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
11298.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
如果說因為宣導的話教育部衛福部如果有需要我們保護部到場或者是協助我們一定會樂意的配合 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
11326.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
11342.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
他們一定需要啦那我們一定會到場配合因為你們修這個法其實最頭痛的應該是教育部因為教育部他們有中層教育師他們長期必須要做家庭教育那甚至在學校裡面那我想問一下在學校裡面也適用於這一條嗎在學校裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
11343.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
11365.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
因為我們這個是談家長的部分對不對老師沒有這個權利為什麼我要談這件事情因為家長可能就會做出一件我們可能覺得有點不能理解但可能對家長來說他可能要找一個出口他可能就會去告訴學校老師說現在法律說我不能打小孩那不然小孩如果在學校很多不好管教的老師就交給你打這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
11367.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
11383.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
大家都笑了嘛所以大家都認同這個是很有可能發生的社會現象喔你把1085條這個懲戒權只有付我知道我知道老師沒有老師絕對沒有懲戒權沒錯沒錯所以我是要拜託法務部我們之後教育部一定會遇到這個問題因為我在家庭教育做超過十幾年 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
11384.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
11402.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
我知道一定會有這個困境所以我在這邊正式提出就是要拜託法務部跟教育部你們兩個部會一定要坐下來好好討論開跨部會協調會議如何在你們這個相關修法的配套後有沒有相關的資源相關的可能性去跟教育部討論開啟啟動更多家庭教育方案來協助社區的家長 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
11403.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
11432.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
是好那如果你們開跨部會會議有困難是不是我們辦公室也可以主動來找你們一起召開是好那最後一個我的主張就很清楚最後一張就是1085的修正絕對是好事希望你們不要退縮但是如何協助教育部協助更多的家長透過教育部的系統去協助社區更多家長我認為是我們未來一起努力的目標立法委員不能只是要了這個法修了這個法但是相關的配套我們一起來努力好不好好謝謝法務部謝謝主席謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
11433.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
11450.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
謝謝委員謝謝陳委員好那今天所有登記發言的委員都已經發言完畢詢答結束委員質詢10要求提供相關資料或以書面答覆者請相關機關請速送交個別委員會基本個別委員基本會 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
11451.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
11468.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
委員王洪威所提書面執行均列入紀錄刊登公報並請相關機關以書面答覆討論事項所列議案報告及詢問完畢決議另定期繼續審查本次會議進行到此結束現在散會謝謝大家 |