| IVOD_ID |
165428 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165428 |
| 日期 |
2025-11-13 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-4-23-6 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期交通委員會第6次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
6 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
23 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
交通委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期交通委員會第6次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-11-13T11:19:31+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-11-13T11:30:02+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:10:31 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fffa2c65c610face5434cbadefa1b76e63fe2012470c75420834c22697b3aa2a3e3ed5aee600c39c5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
廖先翔 |
| 委員發言時間 |
11:19:31 - 11:30:02 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-11-13T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期交通委員會第6次全體委員會議（事由：邀請行政院公共工程委員會主任委員陳金德列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
1.348 |
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3.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].text |
謝謝主席也要麻煩邀請我們陳主委請陳主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
10.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
35.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
主委你好 主委午安這個時代在進步啦那我們人啊這個在十一助選有各樣的一個東西也都會隨著時代去做更替嘛那我想這個在公共工程也一樣啦一定會隨著時代我們所採購的東西或者是我們的一些規格其實都會順應時代去做調整啦但是有一些新的東西這個要公務部門採用的時候總是會有一套流程比如說從我們的這個規劃 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
39.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
46.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
或者是驗證到未來的這個普遍的應用大概是怎樣的一個流程這樣子就是創新的產品或營養簡單就好 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
60.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
87.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
報告我們大概幾個方式第一個我們有那個平台創新的平台新的材料新的工法那可以到創新的平台讓各機關的了解然後去評估去使用那第二個是說我們在採購個案的採購上如何導入創新的這個新材料新工法我們可以是用因為現在工程大概都是用最有力標那有些還是用同胞 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
88.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
111.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
所以我想請教是我們是怎樣的一個驗證的一個過程是不是先有驗證這個東西它是可行的那它是可能符合我們的要求的時候那我們可能才會來做後續的一個擴充的一個採購原則上大概是這樣子嘛對不對是就是說工程要用新材料一定要滿足工程的本身的基本需求和安全 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
111.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
117.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
對 所以驗證非常重要才去做後續的擴充所以我今天其實想要用這個問題來引到這個潛艦國造我們國防的潛艦國造的一個問題來請教一下主委的一個意見因為我們現在原型艦海昆號就是在一個驗證的一個過程當中嘛那其實後面的7艘的擴充 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
130.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
135.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
的2加3加2的擴充件圓形件這個驗證之後那才會有2加3加2這可能比較符合我們的一個工程過去政府在做一個新的沒有嘗試過的東西所謂過必經的流程所以說現在我們的圓形件目前還沒有完成海測對不對還沒有完成海測也就是說就像剛剛講的一個創新的產品他可能還沒完成驗證那後續的推動那其實像國防部他已經 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
159.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
173.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
可能先有做先簽約的那你會建議怎麼樣去做後續的在我們公共工程的一個經驗那套用在國防採購上面的話他大概是要怎樣的驗證的一個完成之後你才會建議國防部去做後續的一個整體的一個推動 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
176.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
203.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
那這是國防部的攸關國家安全的採購啦那基本上對 它有特殊性啦這個我不否認那就是有一幫我們工程會的經驗尊重國防部的這個看法那另外這個並不是創新的產品啦潛艦這件事情這我們沒有做過我們台灣是落後了對 我們沒有做過所以我認為無論任何困難台灣都要努力有 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
204.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
226.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
自治前進的能力這是我作為一個國民的態度我們剛剛講到驗證這個部分你認為說怎樣的驗證叫做驗證完成符合我們的驗證的標準然後才可以建議去做後續的一個擴充以避免後續的擴充可能在一開始的設計上面可能是有缺陷的可能需要去調整 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
228.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
246.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
根據他的國防需求那麼他委託或者是採購的這些潛艦他一定有合約根據他的功能測試那如果合於他的需求那他們會去做決定在符合相關採購企業的方式之下所以主委不太敢回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
248.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
264.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
不是這個怎樣叫做驗證完怎樣可以去做這位公共工程委員會好像不太敢做這方面的一個解釋完全是國安部的需求所以以後各個機關也可以說是他們的需求然後自己去做一些標準我的理解好像會變成這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
265.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
269.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
沒關係我再問下一個問題反正這樣子鬼打牆你也不一定會願意說更多的話那您可能也有看到這個新聞潛艦的違約我們一天交艦的違約是17萬那我們的公共工程有例外情形有分兩種一種就是標準的可能 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
286.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
296.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
這個公道價譬如說延遲一天的話可能是契約金額的多少另外一個部分我們也可以制定嘛對不對國防部他可能制定那我們原本上我們採購法上面的違約的每日的違約金額大概是採購金額大概多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
301.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
321.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
前分之一但是他有個上限對原則上是前分之一嘛然後造價可能是上限的百分之二十但是他還要看說到底違約的部分是牽涉到對對他可能有國防有特殊性我們都認同啦那所以說國防部他有另外他去訂一個規定所以他是十七萬這十七萬大家都應該都聽過嘛那十七萬的部分他的 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
321.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
334.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
計算的一個基準就是說它的工程造價大概是用200億去算那17萬大概佔200億的多少你們有沒有算大概有沒有一個概念我們把這個萬去掉17萬扣掉一個萬就17200億去掉一個萬大概200萬所以就17比200萬大概是十萬分之一的日違約金 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
351.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
363.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
大概是這樣子我應該沒有算錯大概是十萬分之一那我們公共工程委員會可能有許多的一個經驗你們有沒有聽過有比十萬分之一還低的一個日違約金的一個罰款機制 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
365.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
390.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
有沒有聽過啦 有沒有聽過有沒有遇過沒有 我先確認有沒有遇過 有沒有聽過啦因為國方有國方的特殊性我們都認同他有可能依照他實際的需求去訂定相關的合約這都合法我們尊重我只想問我們公共工程委員會有沒有遇過比十萬分之一還要低的一個日違約懲罰金有或沒有而已啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
392.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
403.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
這個我們去了解一下啦你也不確定有沒有但是現在想不起來有比十萬分之一低嗎台湾要做潛艦所有人都應該樂觀其成應該客服任何困難甚至排除任何法規的 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
413.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
425.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
我們也要督促廠商因為有時效性 國防有時效性所以我們要督促廠商他要盡快的完成交件但是我們不要輕易說不繼續做自製潛艦所以我的意思就是說我們這樣子的違約金讓廠商有沒有辦法積極要去哪裡買潛艦來 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
429.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
446.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
防衛台灣的安全主委你扯遠了齁 你扯遠了我們的目標一樣我們就直接講核心問題我們的目標是希望廠商積極是希望台灣自治潛艦還是說國防部不要自治潛艦所以說海昆號我們支持啊所以希望的話就要克服任何困難 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
447.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
466.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
對所以說我們希望廠商積極的來做嘛對不對對所以我們公司的立場是尊重國防部的財政國防部應該有他一些積極的來有些機密廠商積極的完成合約競速的交界是我們共同的目標對不對是吧主委也希望盡快交界嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
467.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
486.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
我們希望滿足國防部的需求不會說不會 不要吧 應該是要吧我們希望都盡快交件 你剛剛問我希望國防制度 我答應你 我希望啊當然按照合約 希望交件 能夠如期完成站在一個國民的角度 你應該也希望盡快交件吧我們希望趕快擁有潛艦 有足夠的潛艦所以對於這個國防的問題啊對這個廠商 你覺得有沒有讓他有壓迫性 希望他盡快的來交件 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
494.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
510.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
這很嚴肅的問題我們都是台灣國民我們希望台灣的國防部有這樣的能力所以任何困難我們都會站在協助讓他能夠完成的角度但我們不希望廠商一直拖嘛對不對拖不拖是國防部跟廠商的約定 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
510.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
516.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
所以說現在各個機關都可以這樣子講不同機關是國防部這個前件的問題太嚴肅了所以我就請教一個主委我請教主委10萬分之一的日的違約金你認為對於廠商去競速的交件這件事情你認為能不能構成他的壓力這個是國防部自己的決定 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
537.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
548.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
國防部他站在什麼角度什麼約定那如果認為合以他的採購契約那國防部當然可以這樣做你難道希望滑到滑到這個廠商倒掉沒有人希望廠商倒我們必須很嚴肅的跟你對談對不對說這個問題太嚴肅了 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
554.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
581.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
所以我們希望他早一點 那我就因為公主委你的經驗豐富嘛所以來請教一下國防有特殊性然後當然我們也是希望說依照其他的經驗來看看怎樣的一個機制讓廠商他有壓力競速滿足我們國人對國防以及國防部的要求那所以說請教這十萬分之一的違約金的機制對於對廠商來說有沒有壓力啦這可能你們或許有其他的其他案例你們覺得他他他 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
582.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
609.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
這樣的機制對廠商有壓力你們也可以說哪個案子也是這樣子嘛他也達到很好的效果我們也可以舉例嘛對不對因為他的採購的本質是帶有研發性質在外國叫做APA的採購那APA的採購基本上面他有他的特殊性不單單只是我們都承認所以他會算在公企裡面所以他必須去衡量整個他旅業的可能性他旅業的這個風險等等所以他是依照這些相關的因素去 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
610.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
629.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
我們都理解啦好啦我就尊重主席啦時間到了那我只是希望說國防採購大家支持但是也希望說有時候我們工程會也可以提出一些建議怎麼樣子讓這個採購案能夠更符合我們國防如期如值的交件應該是大家共同的目標就這樣的一個目的而已好以上謝謝謝謝廖先生 |