| IVOD_ID |
165420 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165420 |
| 日期 |
2025-11-13 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-4-20-8 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期財政委員會第8次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
8 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
20 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
財政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期財政委員會第8次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-11-13T11:54:15+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-11-13T12:05:33+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:11:18 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fffa2c65c610face59a7ab60d9034949fa47f864c5dfb45a0834c22697b3aa2ad2e2cafc87676f955ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
顏寬恒 |
| 委員發言時間 |
11:54:15 - 12:05:33 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-11-13T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期財政委員會第8次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請財政部莊部長翠雲、行政院主計總處陳主計長淑姿、中央銀行副總裁、國家發展委員會葉主任委員俊顯、經濟部次長、勞動部次長、衛生福利部次長就「經濟成長讓全民共享：政府如何縮短所得差距暨改善相對貧窮化之對策」進行專題報告，並備質詢。
二、審查本院民進黨黨團擬具「財政收支劃分法第十六條之一未分配款運用暫行條例草案」案。） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
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主席各位烈士官員大家早主席有請財政部莊部長主席處陳主席長來請莊部長陳主席長委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
17.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
35.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
部長好 主委長吉林係數是國際間最常用來衡量財富分配比較均衡程度的統計指標產生部最新公布的資料台灣112年每戶吉林係數是0.339每年每人係數是0.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
42.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
59.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
但這個數據保持一個懷疑的態度110年主計總數公布的數據台灣吉尼系數是0.606那短短的兩三年這個系數突然縮小到0.339根本是不可能的 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
59.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
74.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
那主席長還有部長可不可以分別跟我們說明一下你們各自的算法是怎麼算不然為什麼差距這麼大無法理解是部長先相關的數據財政部長基本上都是依據主席總書的公告因為這是有主席總書的權責不好意思再說一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
78.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
93.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
也就是說相關的數據這些所得都是我們是根據主計總處這邊所公布的資料那在8月15號的時候他也相關也有相關的公告我想這個部分跟委員做這樣的一個說明好那請主席講 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
95.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
121.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
跟委員報告因為剛剛您講的那個0.606是屬於財富的部分有包括家庭財富所得的部分那這個部分是我們每個家戶所得的一個分配情形113年度的經理係數是0.341加每戶的部分那每人的部分是0.277這個部分那如果說是五等分的差別倍數就是3.92這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
123.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
150.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
不是 那兩者就是說剛剛部長你說是依照主席總書提供的資料去做這個計算那你要清楚的說明啊不然說民眾看到這些數據誤以為說我國的貧富差距會有改善事實上沒有改善嘛 對不對從75倍到150倍貧富差距那麼大然後用這樣子的一個數據沒有清楚的說明造成誤解那透明的數據解釋對於提高民眾的信任跟理解是非常重要的好不好 部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
151.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
180.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
好的 我想我們可以再做進一步的說明謝謝委員長好 部長你先請回部長先請回那請國發會副主委主席不好意思 有請好 請高副主委主席長 我再請教主席長是1130我國薪水佔GDP比重是多少那還有國發會副主委你怎麼定義低薪勞工這兩個請那個主席長先回應 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
185.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
196.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
那個我說主席長是請教你說薪水佔GDP的比重是多少這個部分薪水佔GDP的比重這個部分好像43%左右確實的數據是多少43%左右 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
210.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
229.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
從1990年的百分之我們薪資佔GDP的比例這個部分薪資佔GDP的比例到底是多少我們現在是用受雇報酬佔GDP的部分是百分之40.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
235.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
243.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
那好那妳剛剛說我國經常性薪資中位數是多少3.8萬是不是這個是在9月份的時候是3萬8啦3萬8 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
245.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
270.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
有一些余數你沒有講啦就是37.多37274因為這是111年的113年度的那我們的部分現在到9月份平均是47000啦1到9月的平均是47000然後他的中位是38000左右那低於這個低於平均數的有多少佔了多少70%有69點多將近七成啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
273.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
290.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
好 所以這個代表說勞動者所得未能隨著經濟成長同步增長對不對是不是這樣子但是我們中位數也是到38000也是到38000中位數就是表示有50以上的那個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
291.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
307.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
所以說反映出這個收入分配的不均台灣薪資成長未能有效反映出生產力的提升造成收入集中在少數的部分超過七成的壽星的這些階級它是低薪的比中位數低 對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
307.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
330.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
因為他有一部分就是說基層勞動者他的這個收入收入停滯增長停滯不是收入停滯加劇的這個貧富差距對不對其實貧富差距算跟各國比起來我們算也不是很高的部分不是很高是多高還不夠低 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
333.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
355.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
華國啊 日本啊 還有德國啊我們用吉尼係數來看的話是0.606嘛不是 那我問你喔 那我問你主委總長主委長 3萬8是否足以支撐民眾的基本生活夠不夠 到底夠不夠3萬8是中位數啦這樣子 就看你 你的 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
356.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
380.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
對嘛 所以就是每個這個都有不同的環境還有不同的所在地還有這些支出都不同還有現在這個通膨所以到底夠不夠那我想就是說有很大的進步空間嘛不是在這邊大家在這邊爭執我們要的是說怎麼樣來處理薪資成長跟經濟結構之間的這個矛盾問題要如何來解決嘛 對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
381.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
400.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
在衛福部方面他也有針對中低收入戶的部分有特別給予給他一些的輔助還有低薪的部分我們有保障基本工資所以這個部分還有我們也鼓勵企業加薪這些措施等等都是在提升我們整個薪資的一個水平這個好了 主席長妳請回請國發會 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
409.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
425.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
好 副主委經濟成長模式從勞力密集走向資本化 知識化那貧富差距惡化是一個我們看到的結果所以所得從分配是指政府透過稅收還有透過社會福利支出等方式 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
426.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
454.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
例如房屋津貼還有育兒津貼中低收入補助或長照支出但是我們台灣的這個製衡機制這個不完備以上市貴高階主管跟基層這個倍數的持續擴張來擴大比例所以目前沒有辦法避免那請問國發會針對這一類的現象有什麼具體的政策或調整這種製衡不平等的一個收入分配有什麼辦法 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
456.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
468.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
我想這個問題可能要從多元併進的方式我們今天報告裡面也有講到除了用租稅的這些手段還有一個社福的支出的平衡以外我想產業結構的均衡發展也非常的重要 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
471.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
488.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
然後薪資的薪資水準鼓勵企業提升薪資水準願意把經濟成長的成果分享給員工也很重要所以我們目前政府事實上是四個面向齊頭併進的方式我們希望可以達到我們剛剛委員希望達到的目標 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
489.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
511.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
對啦 我也建議國發會就考慮加大對這些技術教育跟技能訓練這個部分然後尤其在對於中小企業的這些領域製造更多高薪的機會那希望國發會可以在更注重這方面的發展好不好好 是的 謝謝委員主席有請衛福部衛福部 呂次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
522.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
525.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
委員你好次長好委員好這個衛福部好像很狀況外 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
537.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
561.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
我們的主題是要縮短貧富差距但是衛福部還提出健保補充 保費調整要將利息 股息 租金等補充保費要增加然後把現行的每月結算改為年度計算那一年累計超過兩萬就要收取然後發現方向不對就在當日七個小時之內就匆匆忙忙的這樣子的急轉彎喊卡 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
562.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
589.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
是因為被這個政策本身就有問題還是受到什麼樣的一個責難包委員我們現在目前都會來多方來廣正各方意見當初在構思的時候在討論的時候不是有請教了這個專家學者嗎是哪一位專家包委員因為我們這個是有關於財務方面有關健保的部分我想其實平常我們大概都會有沒有徵詢金管會當初 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
591.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
608.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
不過委員因為這不是我負責的業務啦我負責社會福利這是兩對啦所以說儘管會作為中華民國這個掌管所有投資人相關事務的機構但是你們好像沒有詢問嘛我問過主委啦他說沒有不知道看報才知道的 對吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
611.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
627.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
所以說在制定政策應該要更謹慎更嚴謹不然的話我想簽一法動全身的這樣子的一個政策你只要一條掌小資族的錢你們也要搶 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
627.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
644.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
那導致我們很多民眾會把這些資金全部都移轉到另外的一個投資或者是國外那就連這些房價什麼的也會跟著漲對不對那簽一法動全身所以我們看到衛福部 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
645.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
664.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
這樣子的一個草率的行為然後就當日七個小時之內就被打槍我想這部分我們不樂意我們不想再看到這樣的情況好不好 請衛福部好好檢討 謝謝非常感謝委員 謝謝謝謝顏委員接下來我們請葉元之委員 |