| IVOD_ID |
16540 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16540 |
| 日期 |
2025-03-24 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-15-5 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期內政委員會第5次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
5 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
15 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
內政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期內政委員會第5次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2025-03-24T08:30:51+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-03-24T12:40:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
04:09:09 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/eeffa975d6a1e3ead471259357e90fe07e60f8021a25648d7692a6bdb7e2f09f69baf71ff4d08f7d5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-03-24T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期內政委員會第5次全體委員會議（事由：邀請內政部部長、行政院消費者保護處處長、財政部就「租賃住宅市場透明化之現況及展望」進行專題報告，並備質詢。） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:30:51 - 12:40:00 |
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大家早安,請主任秘書報告出席人數報告委員會出席委員12人,已足法定人數好,現在開會,進行報告事項,請宣讀上次會議議事錄 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
1893.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
1912.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
立法院第11屆第三會期內政委員會第4次全體委員會議議事錄時間114年3月19日星期三上午9時至11時7分地點紅樓202會議室出席委員蘇巧慧委員等14人列席委員楊瓊英委員等10人列席官員內政部政務次長馬世元暨相關人員農業部綜合規劃司副司長韓寶柱暨相關人員 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
1916.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
1943.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
環境部化學物質管理署副署長陳淑玲暨相關人員核能安全委員會主任秘書王重德暨相關人員經濟部產業園區管理局副局長曾處分法務部參事廖江憲主席張昭吉委員洪璐報告事項宣讀上次會議議事錄決定確定討論事項一審查委員賴瑞龍等16人擬拒災害防救法第3條及第19條條文修正草案案二審查委員謝一鳳等17人擬拒災害防救法第3條條文修正草案案 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
1944.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
1971.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
三审查委员谢一凤等16人拟据灾害防救法第48条条文修正草案四审查委员丁学忠等16人拟据灾害防救法第22条条文修正草案讨论施加和并寻答委员丁学忠说明提案要旨内政部政务次长马世元报告委员苏巧慧等13人质询由内政部政务次长马世元及相关人员经济部产业园区管理局副局长曾淑芬环境部化学物质管理署副署长陈淑玲答复说明 |
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1972.426 |
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1997.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
登記發言委員除不在場者外 其餘均已發言完畢 詢答結束委員蘇巧慧 丁學忠 高金素美所提書面質詢列入記錄刊登公報書面質詢及未及答覆部分 請相關機關於一周內另以書面答覆並複製本會決議以上個案均另定期繼續審查條文已宣讀 宣讀完畢好 請問委員會 這個上次會議事錄有錯誤或遺漏之處 |
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1999.738 |
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2027.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
好沒有錯誤的話議事錄確定繼續進行本日議程報告事項請宣讀邀請內政部部長行政院消費者保護處處長財政部就租賃住宅市場透明化之現況及展望進行專題報告並被質詢宣讀完畢好我們現在介紹在場委員及列席官員首先是黃婕委員張志倫委員王美惠委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
2030.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
2050.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
蘇巧惠委員我們官員的部分內政部劉世芳部長我們國土管理署吳興修署長行政院消費者保護署鍾惠蘭處長還有我們財政部負稅署倪立新副署長 |
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2054.704 |
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2061.29 |
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OK 好 接下來我們先請內政部劉世芳部長 針對今天專案報告的主題進行報告說明莊委長 各位委員大家早非常感謝各位委員對於住宅租賃業務的關心跟支持表示最大的謝誠那今天就租賃市場透明化的現況與展望簡要報告如下 |
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2080.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
2102.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
為促進租賃市場住宅市場健全發展內政部近年來制定及修正租賃住宅發展及管理條例住宅法等規定建構租屋市場管理法制其中包含一住宅租賃契約全面適用消保法規定訂定及修正各項定型化契約完備租賃雙方權利義務關係 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
2105.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
2127.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
第二 建立包租代管專業服務制度引導市場朝向專業管理第三 規定包租代管業提供租賃資訊以及轉租案件實價登錄提升租屋市場透明化第四 自2024年8月開始委託法服基金會提供租屋族免費租屋法律諮詢服務強化租賃糾紛諮詢處理機制 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
2130.891 |
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2146.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
第五推动租屋电费新制促进电费收取公平合理及资讯透明保障租客权益接着就本部在租屋市场透明化推动情形说明如下首先以多元管道取得租屋市场的资讯 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
2148.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
2171.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
內政部從2021年12月30日修正不動產經濟業管理條例規定租賃仲介業案件應該申報實價登錄2017年12月及2023年2月分別制定及修正租賃條例規定包租代管業應該提供租賃住宅資訊以及轉租案件納入實價登錄 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
2172.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
2198.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
另外配合住宅法的規定2017年推動社宅包租代管以及從2022年起推動辦理300億元中央擴大租金補貼專案計劃引導房東主動加入社宅包租代管或公益出租人行列逐步強化租屋市場資訊取得與公開截至2024年底透過各管道 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
2199.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2208.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
内政部已经取得2024年底有效租约大约是72.7万笔约占潜在租屋市场规模的六成 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
2210.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2231.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
其次发布租金统计资讯提供合理租金参考内政部在2024年8月以及今年1月陆续先后公布两次全国各行政区实际租金四分位数统计资料涵挎全国289个行政区涵盖率79% |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2234.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2255.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
以及218个行政区各租屋形态包括整户层独立套房分租套房雅房等的租金统计资料让租屋族更了解不同租屋形态的实际租金价格分布情形此外今年1月也新增发布全国及县市 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2255.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2279.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
知租金平均数统计数据以利民众作为观察整体租屋市场租金变动情形的参考另外考量国内租屋交易习惯与市场特性租约不以书面为必要故全面实价登录推动租屋市场透明化恐面临的挑战包括第一不易掌握租屋市场的实况 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2280.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2294.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
由於租賃契約依照現行民法的規定不以書面登記為必要而且目前契約期間多為短期市場變動可謂頻繁難以全面掌握租約訂定情形及實際內容 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2295.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2313.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
第二实际租金查核困难租金价格易受到房屋个别条件租期长短租屋形态等多种因素的影响而且计算方式多样包含管理费水电费等等难以查核实际租金情形 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2314.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2337.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
第三,资讯失真风险,部分出租人可能规避申报实价登录或以不实作价登录导致市场资讯失真。第四,造成市场冲击,若强制登录可能导致房东转嫁成本,导致租金上涨或退出租屋市场,造成租屋供给减少,影响租屋市场增长。 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2338.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2360.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
秩序以及租屋族的權益因此內政部將以穩健的方式逐步推動租屋市場透明相關配套措施精進的方向包含第一每年定期更新公布兩次租屋市場的統計資料第二已經修正租金補貼申請需要填報租屋形態資訊並將透過地籍及租賃資訊整合借接 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2364.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2392.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
研議不同屋齡建物型態等次類別的統計可行性提供更多元更完整的租屋市場統計參考資訊第三持續推動包租代管與租金補貼鼓勵房東主動加入包租代管專業服務或公益出租人行列除了逐步改善民眾租居權益保障同時可進一步取得租屋市場資訊有助於改善租屋黑市的情形 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2394.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2423.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
結語在兼顧維護租屋市場安定與資訊透明的原則下內政部持續穩健推動租屋市場透明化的相關措施同時朝著推廣友善房東鼓勵租賃雙方訂定長期租約定期檢討定型化契約的規定提供租賃糾紛訴訟等協助相關機制與制度的檢討促進租屋市場穩定跟健全保障租賃雙方權益共創雙贏 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2424.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2443.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
以上檢要報告請召委及各位委員參考謝謝好謝謝劉仕芳部長的報告那麼其他單位的報告我們就請委員自行參閱並且刊登公報那麼我們現在進行詢答這個委員諮詢前遠利做幾點宣告第一 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2443.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2466.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
每位委員發言時間非本會委員6分鐘必要時延長2分鐘非本會委員5分鐘我們早上10點半截止發言登記第二臨時提案截止提出時間為早上11點與本會委員答詢完畢後處理請問各位同仁有沒有意見好謝謝那麼我們現在進行詢答現在請登記第一位的蘇巧慧委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2476.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2478.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
好 謝謝主席 我們請劉世芳劉部長劉部長有請 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2485.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2490.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
租屋市場透明化租屋市場透明化租屋市場透明化租屋市場透明化租屋市場透明化租屋市場透明化租屋市場透明化租屋市場透明化 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2511.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2524.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
我們來看看實際上這幾年大家政府做的狀況有沒有改善我們用這三年的租賃住宅的有效契約數被公開也就是透明化的數字來看很明顯的從2022年底我們有掌握的這個公開的是40萬一直到去年2024的年底已經到了72萬件這樣子的成長幅度不可謂不大 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2533.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2539.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
所以表示我們在推動的政策確實是有效度的我想這個也應該給內政部辛苦的同仁相關業務的同仁一個值得掌聲一下那我們接著就來看72萬戶 72萬件 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2550.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2559.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
到底還值不值得應該繼續往上推呢最有效的政策是什麼呢我們看到剛剛72萬件其實主要是來自於從2021年我們修正了不動產經濟業的管理條例24-1條在只要你的租賃是透過不動產經濟業去處理的那是強制百分之百公開所以這邊就有3萬多件好 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2574.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2593.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
那後面我們就繼續推動了租屋補貼政策和包租代管政策尤其是這個租屋補貼政策讓大家把整個的租屋市場哇真的真正的都公開透明化起來這是一個最有效度的政策這樣看起來所以你看看我們如果以全國和各縣市這樣數字來看的話其實剛剛說的72萬件裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2598.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2617.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
這些數字其實在這裡小小的岔題一下其實內政部你們有很多不同的統計方式對數字差異不大但是各種不同標準看起來就是會有一點點的落差所以有時候我也很難說要用哪一個那現在我們用這個你們自己提供的這樣租賃住宅有效契約涵蓋率來講的話全國已經到達了75%可是你看其他六都來講以雙北是明顯低於全國的涵蓋率你全國的 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2627.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2642.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
有75%公布了可是雙北一個是五成一個是六成部長你怎麼看這樣的現象因為雙北反而是租賃市場最大的地方啊它不是最應該要被公開這樣才能表示達到我們的政策嗎部長你怎麼看這題 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2643.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2662.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
是的我想非常謝謝委員的關心我想重點是在於說我們能夠掌握到可以讓我們來做這個統計數據的分析是來自於我們的租金補貼的部分那是最有效的政策啦他的掌握度不高大概在於就私人呢他比較不願意提供有關租金沒有沒有我現在的問題是為什麼雙北比較低 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2664.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2669.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
其實就租金補貼來講雙北因為大概在符合的這個比例上來講是相對比較低大概以學生為主因為租金補貼他也有一個薪資上限 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2683.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2696.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
他一個薪資上限那所以在這樣的狀況下其實在目前來講全國會申請率最高會是在桃園跟台中也是因為桃園這邊的比例甚至超過了100欸對對對所以他的數據會來自於是說因為珠普的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2701.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2720.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
他有一個薪資上限所以以現在所收到的這樣的一個案件來講其實桃園跟台中的比例會是最高你看一下這個表單這個表格它是租賃住宅的有效契約它不是單純的租金補貼而已喔所以您剛剛的回答稍微有一點偏差公委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2724.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2744.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
百分之百是因為我們用主計總數的統計資料全國有87萬戶那如果家計在外租屋的部分有22萬戶的話大概會有110萬戶所以那個租金是以87萬戶來做統計你看我剛剛從一開始到現在我其實是在跟你順一個邏輯我的邏輯是租賃市場要不要公開透明化 要 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2745.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2755.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
那全國有沒有進步 有最有效達成這個恆功率的政策是什麼看起來是租金補貼那雙北為什麼是最低所以我們一層一層我們要解決問題就是要先找出問題真正的問題在哪裡所以我剛剛是在跟你說雙北為什麼最低 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2762.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2789.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
好 你看起來還沒有到了非常具體的回答我但你有切到一個邊你插到一個邊說最有效的租金補貼的政策反而在雙北可能不見得那麼能夠有效度執行因為學生居多好 這個就是爭點一了嘛那我覺得這很值得探討應該可以再被討論因為學生市場學生的租屋市場反而是最應該要有公開透明資料的嘛這是其一嘛好 那第二個順著我接下來我要討論的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2790.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2810.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
我繼續跟你討論為什麼為什麼這個租金租屋補貼的部分租屋補貼的部分既然它是最有效的我們回到剛剛那個圓餅圖的部分好了租屋補貼既然是最能夠達成租屋市場公開透明化的政策那我們要怎麼把它加強我上個會期就已經質詢過了不外乎棒子跟胡蘿蔔胡蘿蔔的部分我們來看看來署長和部長看一下這個公益出租人租稅優惠 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2821.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2848.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
稅負優惠其實就是我們提供給這個租屋補貼的政策嘛讓房東願意願意加入這個政策坦白講每個人都是要看利益利德嘛所以當我們讓他當他成為公益出租員的時候我們把他的稅負下降他覺得欸加入這個計畫對我也不錯啊不是只有房客拿到了補貼是有房東的稅負也可以減少那我當然也願意加入這個同意吧沒有問題吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2850.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2865.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
沒有人回答是不是可以請財政部來回應這個問題那剛剛統計不是啦我現在在討論內政部的政策嘛那我是請我們那個處長跟您回應一下統計的部分好嗎我只要回答這個單純的部分部長沒有關係啦直接您直接回答或署長回答也沒有關係啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2867.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2884.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
讓公益出租人覺得自己有利可得所以願意加入這個政策沒有問題嘛對不對好那我們現在來看公益出租人得到的稅負優惠會有哪一些其實你也列得很清楚了嘛綜合所得稅房屋稅和地價稅請問內政部或財政部有沒有統計過他所減少的稅負 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2890.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2908.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
和他如果加入這個政策被政府知道他有這麼多間房屋在出租的時候他的所得稅增加這兩件比較起來他是多還是少他的總收入到底是多還是少有沒有做過這個統計這個就可以財政部啦內政部他們從來沒有給你資料嘛對不對財政部沒有給你這個資料嘛財政部你們有做過這個統計嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2913.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2931.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
跟委員報告這個他可以享租稅優惠但是我們另外一個規定說這個資料我們不會作為查稅的依據所以我們不會去追他以前的稅你要不要針對我的問題回答我的問題是問你公益出租人在這一屆租金補貼的案件當中他得到的稅負優惠和和 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2933.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2959.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
他因為房子這麼多出租了被政府知道以後他的所得增加以後要繳納的所得稅負這兩者一出一進之間比較起來他到底是有失還是有得你們有沒有做過比較嘛我們目前沒有這個統計那你覺不覺得這才是真正關鍵的原因嘛你這邊看起來讓他降稅了可是事實上他因為被知道房子多了所以所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2959.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2986.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
他最後比較起來總收入還是增加所以他當然覺得這個案子對我無利可圖我就不參加了嘛這才是我們今天公益出租人為什麼不參加租金補貼計畫最大的原因啊就是你的胡蘿蔔不是真正的胡蘿蔔嘛這是第一個嘛好來那第二個我們來看棒子的部分來棒子的部分內政部房東不擇禁止房客申請租金補貼我非常同意 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2987.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
3012.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
有了胡蘿蔔就應該有棒子來我們來看內政部其實你們在111年的時候就已經說了不但房客房東如果禁止房客不得申請的時候房客可以拒絕及主張無效而且如果房東進而要要求漲租或負擔所得增加稅負的時候房客可以向政府提出申訴要求改正如果不改正可處3萬至30萬元罰款 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
3014.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
3028.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
人具不改正者可加重處五至五十萬法案並得按次處罰我想請問內政部從實施到現在有多少人來申訴你們裁罰了多少件有統計數字嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
3031.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
3047.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
有關於違反這個規定的部分我們現在沒有統計數據為什麼沒有統計數據因為那個在地方不過我們有統計每年的租金的一個有關租屋糾紛大概有2700多件你沒有統計數據你怎麼知道你這個政策是有沒有效度的 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
3048.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
3060.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
我要求應該要有統計數據啊不然你訂這個規定是什麼回事呢所以我今天在跟你談論的就是這樣的兩個點好 我們再重申一次整個的邏輯整個的邏輯就是我們認為租屋市場應該要透明化 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
3064.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
3091.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
租金普天達成了租金市場透明化非常有功效而且社會大眾都喜歡都滿意現在也已經到達了一個高比率很可惜還有一點點落差所以我們希望胡蘿蔔成為真正的胡蘿蔔財政部應該要就公益出租人的所得到底能夠得到多少的優惠提出具體的數字來看看我們現在的租稅優惠是否適合 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
3092.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
3108.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
棒子的部分也就是內政部對你自己提出的這樣的裁罰應該要做出統計數字並且繼續追蹤讓棒子跟胡蘿蔔都是有效度的讓租金補貼政策可以持續進行並且提高這樣同意吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
3109.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
3121.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
部長這樣不好意思麻煩承諾一下我們會跟財政部一起來努力不管是胡蘿蔔棒子的部分但是在執行層面上面我們也需要考慮到說是民法契約上面的規範完全同意我同意部長這個方向所以我也認為不應該直接修法變成是所有的租賃契約通通強制我不認為應該要這樣做因為它每個地區有不一樣的狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
3135.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
3160.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
而且說實在的我們其實租賃市場也不需要到達百分之百全面透明我們要的是一個公平合理的房價資訊所以到一定程度其實就已經可以掌握市場的狀況我認為還是應該保有自由溢價的空間只要它在合理公平性這個是可以接受的租市場也是一個產業鏈我們希望它是健康透明的 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
3161.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
3176.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
這個方向我同意不過我的棒子還有胡蘿蔔的政策的可以在檢討的地方請部長這邊和財政部待會兒研議謝謝我需要資料喔那兩個要求的資料要交到辦公室一個是財政部的一個是內政部的對對對對謝謝好謝謝蘇曉慧委員下一位我們請張志倫委員質詢好 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
3189.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3196.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
好謝謝主席各位委員各位官員大家早我們先請劉部長劉部長有請財政部的倪副組長來財政部有請莊委員早 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3204.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3226.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
好謝謝部長那部長今天要討論的重點我相信是全民非常的關心的有關於租屋市場的一些相關的問題跟討論那我認為現在租屋市場民眾最關心的就是兩點第一個是這個租金在最近幾年的租金的上漲的幅度非常高在主計數今天的報告有顯示在112年113年分別上漲2.16跟2.45那114年到1到21平均上漲是2.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3234.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3260.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
那這都已經創下了這個28年來的新高代表居住的成本近年來都在增加中政府我們知道政府很努力有祭出一些的政策可是效果有限那第一個大家租客認為說最近的租金非常的高那第二個剛剛我相信喬惠文有提到現在還是有非常多的房東不讓房客報租屋補貼原因就是稅負的一些相關的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3260.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3278.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
那本席也在去年的7月11號針對現在兩個租屋的非常大的一個重點一個叫做公益出租人就是房客申請租屋補貼的跟第二個包租代管的稅額扣抵的差異提出質疑顧名思義就是說現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3279.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3299.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
申請租屋補貼的就是非常多的學生族或者一些一剛出社會的上班族他們就是因為可能需要幫忙所以申請一些租屋補貼可是這個房東的稅負會轉嫁到房客身上所以這個房東的如果他的費用減除率只有43%其實相對來講他的所有的稅負是比較高的 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3305.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3328.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
那包租代管的稅額其實它的費用率是可以扣除到60%所以它的費用率是扣除到比較高那去年其實國土署說要跟財政部討論這個稅額扣抵的這個部分這樣的差異會不會造成一國兩制的這個問題請問到目前來講修法的進度為何我是不是請署長跟您回應一下好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3329.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3356.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
根本報告其實就有關這個稅率的部分事實上我們在陸陸續續都有找財政部談過那因為他會跟個人的免稅額其實扣抵的免稅額其實兩個是在一致的所以這個部分跟署長報告現在包租貸款的免稅額就是43%跟一般的出租人的可以扣除100塊他可以扣除43的費用嘛等於說他57%的稅務要繳稅嘛可是公益出租人的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3358.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3373.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
我再講一次包租代管的部分是可以扣到60%可以扣到60%所以他收到100塊只有40塊要繳稅可是公益出租人就是一些房東他的費用率只能扣40%跟一般的出租人一樣他要57%要繳稅 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3376.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3396.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
所以這樣子的問題是不是可以有一個盡快擬定的一個修法的進度應該這麼說因為原來在這個一萬五以下當然是不用那超過限額的部分那是必要是扣六十趴也剛才講是不是比一般的公益出租人一般的房東要好那但是現在的狀態是說公益出租人是扣百分之十 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3397.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3426.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
43嘛是包租代管還是扣對最主要是房客的部分最主要是房客的部分他還有一個特別扣除額他那個上限那換算租金是一萬五所以我們是因為這樣兩個去比才定在這個一萬五那所以要修的話要兩邊一起調那兩邊一起調就會涉及到說這個一萬五如果放在雙北可能是比較偏低的但是出了雙北他就變成是比較高的水準 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3427.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3448.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
所以這個變成要不要變成因為可是這又是國稅所以他變成說在國稅的角度以下他很難去訂出一國兩制或一國多制的這樣的一個態度因為他不是地方稅所以是不是費用率兩邊都可以扣除60%有沒有機會調整成一制那個這可能要請財政部再來說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3450.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3477.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
跟委員報告當初社會住宅的費用率有60比較高是因為考量到說房東把房屋供這個包租代管他必須支付業者額外的管理費用或者是說他把住宅拿出來做特定用途啊譬如說這個社區長照或托育服務等等他的房東的費用比較高所以那時候是有考量這個因素給他比較高的費用率 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3477.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3498.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
好所以還是不用沒有考慮說要修正嗎因為他的房東的成本可能比好沒關係這個會後我們再找時間來討論好不好第二個就是我相信很多委員都很關心的這個租屋市場黑市還是有在存在那剛剛其實已經有提供資料現在最大的缺口 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3499.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3520.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
缺口最大的區域想不到在雙北那所以我要請教一下就是說現在剛剛我們講的現在台灣有這個包租代管跟公益出租人的部分就是很多這個房客有申請租屋補貼現在113年取得的有效的租業大概72.7萬筆在潛在的租屋市場規模大概是六成左右那我是不是想請教因為其實現在很多民眾 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3521.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3541.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
它其實是可以看到一些租金的一些現在整個市場的一些租金的金額它是可以在這個實價登錄可以看到的那我是不是可以拜託就是說現在整個業者現在都是一些出租業者他們有義務要去做這些租金的申報那是不是有機會就是我們有申請這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3542.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3568.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
租金補貼這些公益出租人為了他所有的這些資料有沒有機會也在實價登錄上來去做一個申報因為我相信這中間還是有很大的一個落差報告委員這個有關於租金補貼的部分我們現在已經依照113年底的有效租約52萬戶已經先做一個租金的四分位統計讓民眾來做一個合理的一個租屋參考那委員應該關心的是租金補貼是不是可以轉到實價登錄 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3569.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3591.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
那這個部分大概會有幾個問題存在第一個部分這個資料因為由房客來申報不一定是一個正確的資料可能會造成一個資訊的失真那第二個部分它也可能會涉及到各自的一個疑慮那第三個部分就是租金補貼其實是政府一個政策希望來協助房客可能也會讓這個政策的美意受到打折 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3592.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3614.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
那這個是我們考慮到的意思那如果房客他沒有辦法來去做一個申報的一個動作的話那未來因為他有收到這個政府的補貼嘛這個政府還有什麼樣的機制可以讓這個租屋市場更加完善那我們現在做的一個部分的話就是利用這個租金補貼的大量資料來做個大數據分析提供給民眾一個整體的租屋行情這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3615.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3636.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
就是說未來就是說固定可能半年就是有個租屋的行情這些數字嘛可是不會要求房客要做一個租金的申報實價登錄不會做好那還有一個實際的關係那我還有一個問題現在就是說因為我們在看這個實價登錄裡面有關於很多的這個租金的費用裡面有分一個坪數跟每坪的一個單價這兩個的數字那我知道說現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3639.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3653.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
那個其實實價登錄大家都有在努力就是說分不同的一些的案子或是不同的一些類型的一些房屋他會有做一些比如說是整層或套房或是怎麼樣的一些數據等等這些數據那我裡面有兩個問題要問很多民眾說 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3656.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3678.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
第一個有這樣的內容是不錯的可是裡面一些實價登錄裡面的資訊裡面他看不到比如說押金管理費清潔費這些東西是不是有機會再做得更詳細那這第二點的部分是不是可以請教說如果沒有翻因為我發現有一些的狀況是說一些的這個大樓就是沒有沒有電梯的他的單價的租金 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3679.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3701.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
有些甚至高達一些大樓老舊公寓單平的租金大概是兩千塊將近到兩千塊那這個部分你們未來在做整個這個租金的整體的公佈的時候你們怎麼去區分說這跟一般的比較就是說它沒有公設的部分怎麼在公佈租金的部分有一個可以讓民眾可以了解的一個方向 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3702.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3720.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
OK那個有關於租金實價登錄的部分第一個委員關心到說那個有關於那個大樓比較舊的部分那個部分的話我們現在有把屋齡這邊有特別有標示出來所以如果民眾在選在查詢的時候其實就可以從屋齡來判斷大概他是比較老舊還是新的 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3721.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3739.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
那另外有關委員講到管理費的這一個部分我們現在是有住民如果有管理費要特別去住民那因為管理費一般都是外加所以我們在申報的時候就沒有特別要求業者或是民眾來做這樣的一個申報所以意思就是說民眾未來可以說這個房子是老舊住宅就是說他可能沒有公設就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3741.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3761.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
套房的部分他們比較老舊的部分就看出來說租金的一些差異嘛最後再拜託一下就是說還是很多民眾針對說現在最重要的就是說租屋的部分有很多房東會把這個電價來去跟這個房客做額外的收那我知道現在已經定型化契約的部分已經有做一個調整的一個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3762.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3789.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
不過現在還是我相信很多地方在查緝的時候還是發生很多人是用舊的租約那我希望說內政部這邊也來協助地方政府如何趕快讓這些這些租屋或是說一些電力的一些問題不要讓房客來吸收到過多的這個電費的問題向委員報告一下因為去年8月有電費新制的一個規定所以我們現在都在專案檢查要求業者通路商把舊約下架那讓民眾可以使用到新約好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3793.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3794.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
主席好,有請部長部長有請委員長 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3819.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3830.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
部長好根據最新統計與學者的研究指出我國的租賃住宅市場長期就是存在資訊不透明 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3831.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3848.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
法令執行的落差還有租賃品質低落於供給不足等架構性的問題不僅是影響年輕人與弱勢族群的居住權益尤其是台北、新北、台中等 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3849.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3865.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
房价所得的比较高年轻人也难以负担购物高房价与低薪的矛盾使得很多人逼迫选择高房价或者还选择比较便宜但是又长时间的通勤 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3869.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3888.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
請教部長有沒有具體的方案不要讓我們居住正義淪為口號還如何加速推動租賃住宅的全面登錄謝謝委員的關心我們在今天的報告裡面其實已經有點出來第一個在內政部跟財政部就剛剛委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3890.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3913.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
很多委員所關心的譬如說提出胡蘿蔔或是提出棍子這樣的措施都有做精進但是現在比較大的麻煩就是說所謂的租賃市場要透明化的部分牽涉到的是個人的民間跟民間之間的契約那公權力比較不容易加進去也就是說我要求房東 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3914.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3928.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
你要公布你的租金那房客呢他也要求要做實價登錄但是他如果做不到或者是沒辦法做到的時候呢目前我們的法令或是法律基礎比較不容易那根據我們所公布出來的就是現在有72.7萬戶的這個租金補貼的這個部分的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3931.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3948.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
目前比較會需要做精進措施多的是落於雙北那雙北的部分剛剛我們很多內政部跟財政部的官員對委員的質詢的時候已經有提出一些改善的措施但是我們需要時間譬如說剛有提到如果我們要把這個所謂的公共設施或者是所謂的這個外加的這個情形列進去的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3951.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
3966.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
在我們行政院的消保費的定型化契約並沒有包含在內那還有一個就是地方政府呢對於我們現在已經有改善新的定型化契約他到底有沒有做到那這個呢我們在地政司呢做專案查核的時候呢會把它列進去尤其會加強在雙北的部分看到很多的實質都是報告啦如果是很多實質我們有提供數據給大家參考要去修法所以我們才根據在2023年的房價所得 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
3981.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
3983.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
高達9.72在2024年更高漲了在10.082全台租金的指數就是穩定 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
3997.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
4017.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
不穩定的一直上升所以說我們看到的是這樣才說要去修法嘛如果是你都在做沒有人反應民眾就沒有收央的話所以我們就不會去修法了所以說許多那個住戶就是沒有揭露他的資訊不是說極有說 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
4021.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
4045.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
房租是房東沒有介入就不足的話這樣的話我們就是雖然是說我們租賃租宅的市場管理條例以就是規範實錄登錄以資訊提供實成但是就是執行不足嘛所以我們才是說希望考慮就建立就是透明化的平台 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
4046.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
4067.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
或者有什么惩罚的还有就是说稽查的机制这样子的话才会让真正的我们的民众有保障我们希望的是实际的不是报告的因为如果你们报告有效的话网络或者是说其他人就不会去申诉了是不是这样 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
4069.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
4087.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
這邊向委員報告一下有關於租屋透明化的部分第一個有關於現在仲介如果沒核的租賃案件或是轉租業者的轉租案件這個都要做實價登錄那第二個部分的話我們也透過一個租金補貼資料來公布一個租金的統計讓民眾來做一個知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
4088.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
4106.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
那這是第一個部分那第二個部分有關於租客的權益保障的部分有關於糾紛的部分我們現在也在推動法服的部分來提供民眾的一個租屋糾紛的諮詢那以現在來講的話每個月大概會有400件的一個諮詢量這個對民眾的幫助是非常大以上報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
4108.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
4124.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
是但是我們現在我們台灣大部分我們都是個人房東所以也缺雜的企業化還有就是管理的機制所以我們希望就是這樣子的品質不穩定落差太大 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
4124.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
4131.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
才會造成很多的一些問題反而就是說我們在日本我們看到的就是我們的業者還有大東就是建託大東建託的七集團集團在日本他們就關於就是說積水住屋或者積房的管理 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
4148.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
4151.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
他們用這樣子的機制所以我們希望我們台灣要有一些就是企業化的管理還有專業的進入這樣市場才能達到就是不同的地方因為剛才你回的其他的委員就說地方跟中央啊怎麼樣怎麼樣怎麼樣這樣就是因為我們沒有真正的實際的登錄還有就是我們的 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
4175.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4180.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
規劃的管理才會造成很多的黑市不透明的資訊嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4182.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4209.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
所以我們希望說要不管是說租屋或者是包租代管這個部分我們要有不同的策略才能達到我們的人民的需求沒有的話這樣子沒有考慮到這個我們就是說我們要做但是不管任何的公司也好政府也好所以我們一定要依照我們的法令要怎麼樣去訂一些機制 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4211.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4230.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
像说我们的租赁租债管理业者的登录的制度在我们在2021年的时候就是有立法模式就是租赁租债管理业法所以这个是落实的吗我们想要的是落实的吗 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4233.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4245.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
這邊跟委員報告委員有特別關心租賃條例有關於向日本的一個專業管理的部分那我們從106年制定那一個租賃條例就引進包租代管的制度現在全國大概有1782家的業者那也有2萬個一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4249.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4266.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
已經測驗合格的一個管理員那這個對於租屋市場有非常的幫助大的幫助那現在已經包租代管的案件到現在已經有22萬戶其實在租屋市場裡面是佔一個非常大的比例講得很好但是呢依據我們全球的房地產的調查我們國家的租金報酬率 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4271.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4275.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
約2.09%屬於至是極差的等級在低包籌情況下許多就是我們的物主寧可就是放空就是要導致就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4287.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4301.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
高房价还有空屋率这个部分所以你讲的是很好但是为什么大家去调查就会这样所以我们政府就是要你出说我们要如何提升就是双方的 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4303.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4321.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
幼嬰這樣子的政策不管是屋主願意提供或者我們的租屋我們要去租的我們的年輕人還有弱勢高齡因為現在很多高齡他們去租屋很多房東是不願意給他們租 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4323.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4344.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
還有說家裡有小孩比較小他們也不太願意給他們租所以這樣子的機制管理的話對我們的弱勢者有什麼幫助這個部分我們也希望說我們內政部這邊要提出更落實的更便民的這樣子的機制才能達到我們的居住正義 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4345.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4351.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
的口號不要只是說叫做口號而已沒有真的是我們是很驕傲在我們台灣的這個租屋的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4357.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4380.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
最後也麻煩一點時間跟我們回應第一個我們透過包租代管的話希望把市場由個人房東轉為專業管理那這個部分也可以加速一些空屋的一個釋出因為幫忙房東來做一些管理的動作那第二個部分的話現在社會我們的包租代管其實也有結合社宅的包租代管可以照顧到更多一個弱勢戶以上報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4381.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4384.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
所以我覺得我們現在最後給我一分鐘我們是要解決的問題就是我們要強化囤房稅還有就是房地合一的稅也減少就是投機炒作還有增加社會租宅的供給 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4402.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4417.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
还有保证我们的租屋的合理性还有申请门槛也是要公平改善就是租屋市场的范围也提升租屋的保障就是杜绝我们市场交易不合理的 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4418.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4422.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
去約這個是有很多的還有這是包含我們新住民他們是沒有身份證他們離婚了帶著小孩有的房東連租給他都沒有給連他們的要租了又沒辦法給他們設戶籍這個也是一個很大的一些問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4438.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4455.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
所以這個部分我們希望說我們要積極去推動不要說就是地方還有中央有落差七成也有落差像我們新加坡就是有族群的分別還有職業的分別還有不同的領域 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4459.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4476.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
來去做管理還有我們的族群來去分配我覺得說我們台灣要多去參考其他國家的才對我們的人民更有幫助以上謝謝好謝謝麥玉珍委員下一位我們請王美惠委員質詢主席謝謝主席我們保庭部長有請 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4488.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4499.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
普通我們今天要做透明化的問題的實際登錄本事要跟你談到的就是之前我們在內政委員會也有討論過也有很多官司都反對這個的做法 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4511.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4525.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
本席要向您在此探討的是,到目前為止,是否有很多官司,反對透明化的實際登錄的做法,是否保證,您來回答一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4527.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4533.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
我們在跟地方政府溝通的過程當中其實不在於地方政府執行的程度他們也願意配合因為租賃市場越透明的話對房客或者對於房東本身啊能夠產生比較好的措施要穩健來推動如果你一方面要求所有的都要做實價登錄的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4553.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4568.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
那房東他可能不想租屋了,整個租屋市場在萎縮的話,不利於房客,但是如果你,然後如果你說以這個房東為主,然後你稅也可以減免,然後也可以不用登錄的話,他這樣子對於房客來講的話又不公平 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4572.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4575.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
所以怎麼樣讓慢慢的可以不要影響到第一個個資保護還有在市場的推動上面能夠比較這個健康的話我們已經有推出一些措施譬如說剛剛很多人提到的公益房東或者是社會住宅或者是我們用這個去這個識別化的狀況先公佈72.7萬戶我們能夠掌握到的這個租金補貼的方向提供給大家參考也就是說如果有租客看到這些數目的話他會覺得說 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4602.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4607.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
既然他今天要去租房子,不要讓人家騙了然後對房東來講的話,他也不要覺得說你的價格與眾不同,太高了但是我要跟大家報告,我們大概不會去處理那個頂級的譬如說今天有人要去租地寶,我們可能不會去處理那一塊所以我們現在出來的不可能是白的 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4625.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4631.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
因為有時候你的租金的實價登錄的時候你像剛才我們補充說的那已經回到最高的最高的租金的行情如果破亂了會越去越遠所以在這補充我是怎麼說的花這麼多時間要給你解釋說因為我覺得這需要我們台灣的百姓所了解 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4654.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4658.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
要做人也好,要人做也好,要了解清楚,不然有的會怕想說自己長期跟長期長久,跟嫁沒長期,跟我已經堅固,要做也不知道要怎麼做自己的中央政府,是他們的願望,可以做得好,可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4678.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4682.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
欠貴金錢的人 去做事的人 會不會他的負擔更輕所以 寶丁你剛才的解說 我覺得重點不在這裡是不是你還有要補充什麼 來 寶丁 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4693.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4720.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
感謝委員啦我相信這個租賃市場的透明化要慢慢去引導啦引導的部分就是說要租客本身或者是房屋的這個房東他自己本身覺得朝著這個方向是好的雖然我們已經制定很多法案包括包租代管業者不動產經濟業者那目前也有人慢慢朝這方面推動那目前我們嘗試著再跟這些包租代管業者就是說能夠互相互動更好能夠保障 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4721.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4733.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
房客跟保障這個房東自己本身兩方面都有得利譬如說剛有委員在講說這個房屋的這個租金過低那房東不願意進入那這個也是我們擔心的尤其是雙北是一個比較大的這個狀況大家都集中到雙北的時候呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4737.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4755.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
展現在我們租賃市場透明化上面呢就會比其他的這個縣市來的比較少那就表示說這個部分呢我們還可以透過包括社會住宅或是包括包租貸管業者或是包括公益出租人或是包括資訊透明的方向要四線一起推動才比較好你現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4756.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4769.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
猛然喔一顆鼓就說我現在要做什麼事情反而造成這個擾動會反而對於租屋本身尤其是對於尋找年輕的青年的這個租客本身啊會有比較大的衝擊啦這個是我們比較擔心的 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4772.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4777.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
普通,在這個地方,我認為困難的問題都在這裡跟本市長說,你也想要做好,做努力的我們要透明化一個法律,是我們也能讓北市的生活更好所以你應該覺得很用心的,去做這個但是在補助的時候,剛才本市長說的,不只做到尾巴 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4802.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4804.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
走到老公站到老娘,再出水沒工再起家,這樣就很害怕了本來跟你說這是最要緊的,沒說實在現在的年輕人也很煩惱 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4819.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4825.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
主一直去,他也怕租金一直去,這是最重要的一部分啦我們補充,這個要去跟上司去關心一下,去注意一下,給未來可以更好在這裡本縣也要跟你談到,我們這個租金裡面都有限度 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4843.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4847.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
電子嘛,在正當的出國的時候,我們就是說出租不可以啦,做的人的電子,可以出台電的收銷的錢嘛,但是假期的時候,他會拉緩嘛,最基本的開始,會發3萬到30萬嘛,但是覺得我這個時候,會發5萬到50萬, |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4871.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
4880.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
覺得聽起來,跟你們去檢舉,檢舉做主的人感覺去啦,出租檢舉啦我覺得好玩的是,你們的政策,未來就是最擔心的,電子營照這樣站,藍白衣出水啦,在家裡面的時候,也海融融的 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
4895.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
4899.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
普通,這種會有時候說他這裡不要去,去這裡我們也在一個政策的時候,可以讓他發生,就安心了沒有有時候,這個年輕人會開心說今天你們收的,今天你們收集的,跟對我們的資金不知道有應有無啦,他說我們有時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
4921.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
4925.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
我們這個租金補貼這個今年300億我們也有聽到補充所說的現在申請的已經63萬幾乎了啦第27已經9千38幾乎申請通過有8千133乎啦要不然未來 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
4947.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
4954.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
我們的租金補貼的時候,如果沒有發動一天的補貼譬如說補貼到10月,譬如說補貼到10月,剩下的那一兩個月要叫八成,怎麼辦? |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
4963.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
4965.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
去想辦法,所以說普通,本席是覺得說,我們的膽不膽,看不看,在地方的時候,我們的租金補貼也是很要緊的,像高利貸, |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
4980.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
4982.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
八千一百三十三戶,一戶兩個就好,就應用到萬樂的了所以補充,這個租金補貼,是對需要的人,分手的煩惱說跟我今年,未來我會做什麼,要去帶酒,要去帶鐵嗎來補充,這個問題你回答一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
5007.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
5012.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
謝謝王委員的關心,因為今年三百億,因為我們是要行政院有一個公務預算撥補兩百億現在當然卡在立法院,嘉義市現在的合訂到三月二十的時候,合訂是八千多戶,八一三七戶,撥款的金額是七千多萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
5030.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
5042.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
但是沒有錯,有可能到10月或11月的時候呢,這個租金就用盡了啦因為本市也有要跟你們談到這個問題可能沒辦法,沒辦法撥得出來啦因為我們錢數不夠,因為我們原先預估的是300億嘛現在200億掉在了,掉在了立法院裡面所以我本市是要跟你說,這看要如何邀議 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
5055.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
5062.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
去解決這個問題,如果有同事要怎麼去處理,有的同事也會覺得他做法不是這樣我覺得這個問題,對北省的租金來說,應用非常大尤其是很多年輕人,應用很大 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
5078.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
5087.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
他們是說他的租金打折啦打折打成八折或是打成九折那現在本身要跟你說的就是說你們的申請到現在你們沒夠到現在還可以申請喔因為你們的目標是七十五萬喔那現在六十三萬喔那你們現在說錢沒夠喔那現在這是一個問題喔保證你們的上世紀算得好喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
5107.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
5110.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
本身要跟你說一下,租用住宅,你們在這裡面有規定,我們的規定是40平方公尺,讓我們的台灣位叫做12倍,在這裡面的時候,我認為你們要去評估,再去看看,有時候它的過用, |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
5129.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
5132.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
阿嬤懷孕,又懷孕了,有時候又懷孕了,你如果規定這個,有時候他會生氣,又沒辦法生氣,我知道你們的後遺,你們之前有想過,我們本來要補貼 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
5146.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
5150.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
是老白老富剩下,現在老白老富沒剩下,算配合自己啦我認為未來你們要去上市,去看,去處理因為本身的資訊的時間也夠了啦因為最美的一點就是我們的基本資助的水準啦在這裡面已經十幾年了 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
5172.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
5177.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
你們要如何去處理 去解決問題 正當我們的營養商補償也有說過 要再改 到現在本學所了解的還沒改 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
5188.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
5196.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
我們補貼這個數據先辦單位用心去處理以上謝謝 我給王議員再補充數字我們累計申請的租金補貼現在是75萬8千多戶合訂的話是64萬2千多戶 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
5207.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5215.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
那你剛所提到的就是說他在申請的面積上面的算法的話我們再跟地方政府再來核定一下看怎麼對讓地方政府來做比較詳細的審查 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5237.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5245.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
去配合 去了解啦我們來合調可以讓這個政府的美意 再做好到底我們來改進好 感謝 完美會委員沒關係好 下一位我們請張宏祿委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5264.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5283.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
請部長部長有請委員好部長就剛剛像租金補貼的部分我們今年會不會再有新的租金補貼的核准 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5283.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5295.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
有 我們現在本來就是開放申請那剛剛我有跟委員報告到目前為止呢 申請的戶數是75萬.8戶那核定的部分是64.2萬戶當中那已經有駁回的是2萬3千多戶 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5300.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5322.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
所以剛剛部長你說的可能到11月就會用慶但那是以現在核准的案件數那如果再多增加核准的案件數是不是更早就用完了報告委員我們原來在預估年度計畫的時候就是以75萬戶為主 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5324.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5349.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
所以現在已經核定就是75萬戶那現在的核定件數是64.2萬戶那你現在是64.2嘛如果是你剛剛說到11月底是75萬戶的數量算嗎對已經核定的去算嗎是的那另外今天我們講這個租賃住宅市場透明化 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5350.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5379.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
那部長其實現在大家在講這個透明化可能最大的就是租金有沒有透明化是的是不是大概就是這個問題而已大致上是這樣子但是我們是我們對外的講的部分就是如果公部門可以掌握的我們一定可以對外公布但是如果不是公部門而是私人的尤其是這個出租人本身他不願意公布的話我們在查核上會有困難 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5380.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5400.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
就是它公布的這個金額到底是對還是不對沒有人敢去確定那如果我們就是放在我們自己的公布門裡面把它公布出去的話反而會影響到租屋市場會變成有點混亂所以我們才會說要兩方面一定要齊頭並進的讓它可以穩健式的朝著租賃市場的租金透明化方面發展 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5401.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5422.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
沒有錯啦 因為私人的部分啦有沒有包含水電或者是有沒有包含裝潢我覺得這個都差很多那有的有沒有包含管理費對不對 或甚至他有沒有車位這個都有不一樣的這個價格啦所以你要去 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5424.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5450.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
實質上掌握到它是不是合理是不是以目前我們所有政府相關機關也沒有辦法做到百分之百報告委員那個我們跟地方政府其實地方政府他們也是非常同意要朝著這個資訊透明化發展但是確實就像您所說的真的非常困難因為數據如果失真的話就影響到整個租賃市場上面的一個健全發展這個是我們比較擔心的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5452.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5470.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
對那回過頭來我們所有的公部門的比如住住中心的或什麼的我們這個的現在有沒有做到百分之百的透明化的應該有住住中心有我是不是請我們處長來跟您回應一下他在做統計上面百分之百的透明化 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5470.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5495.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
我們目前已經有收集租金補貼、社會住宅等相關公佈門的這些租賃案件的契約全部都已經把它對都有對我只要就問只要是公佈門的已經百分之百透明了然後有公佈了我就是問這一個沒錯嘛好你請你先請坐 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5498.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5508.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
所以部長其實啊如果沒有今天這樣子啊很多人啊也都還不知道公部門已經百分之百公開透明給大家查詢了 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5510.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5539.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
這一點很多人可能還不知道是對不對可能我們對外宣導不足啦所以我們再繼續來宣導不是不是不是對外宣導不足的問題我覺得我們在講每次講說我們做了多少做了多少了你做了很多但是你公部門已經百分之百了你這一點可能比例多少不知道我現在不知道但這一點要先讓大家知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5540.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5547.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
我覺得至少公部門它是已經透明化了公部門的地方因為我為什麼要這樣特別問 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5548.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5575.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
其實公部門就沒有我剛剛說的那些差異性那麼多啦對你這一棟你完全沒有裝潢的多少或是你這一棟是包含裝潢多少公部門沒有那些差異性對不對甚至差異性非常小是不是這樣是如果按照委員這樣子的說法我是覺得說在公部門能夠掌握到的資訊已經是實價登錄了啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5576.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5605.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
百分之百實價登錄但是私人部門的話我們能夠掌握到真的很難因為公權力不容易掌握到民法所規範的部分沒有錯啦部長我本來就是要跟你講說公部門已經實價登錄了而且公部門你的實價登錄你的條件你的條件大家都很清楚可以去看你沒有裝潢不一樣你沒有說我這一戶要付車位這一戶沒有付車位 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5605.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5633.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
你的標準幾乎都是一樣的所以這一個我覺得啦我們在這個租賃市場要透明化的部分我們現在做的我們也沒有說你們錯不過我會建議把公部門的這個部分啊獨立出來讓人家好查詢讓人家好知道我這樣我會查我現在不管怎麼樣但我知道公部門大概多少這樣可不可以啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5634.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5660.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
那個我們目前已經公佈了兩次有關公佈門的這些租金的相關的資訊包括他是套房啊 整層啊 雅房啊那是在哪一個行政區甚至是在大學周邊的這些我們都已經有公佈他相關的統計資料Bobo 我知道你有公佈啦我的意思是說在網站上把它分開來讓民眾一查就知道啦我們來研議 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5665.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5685.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
其實我們也希望說我們公部這個公部門的部分能夠做這個定毛的效果譬如說住宅在某一個市中心區它的租金就是這麼高那旁邊你不可能突然是三倍高但是就是像委員所說那裡面如果裝潢非常的好或者有副車位等等這些那其實它的租金就不是我們能夠一手掌握的 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5686.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5708.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
對 我覺得我們公部門的條件都很公開你就讓大家去查詢 你這個是沒有裝潢的你是毛配物或什麼的 或你有帶什麼的你租金是多少 你怎樣 你就是很透明啊你這樣完全透明 我一查就很清楚嘛那你私人的部分 可能他的房子比較好一點 他裝潢比較好一點可能貴個幾成 我可以接受啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5712.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5734.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
我覺得這樣子就很清楚了因為你要一步做到一百分我覺得很困難啦但我們不是不往那邊走不過你這個公部門百分之百可以透明讓民眾非常清楚了解的我覺得先讓民眾非常清楚了解這就很簡單了好 我們來改進好不好 謝謝好 謝謝張宏祿召委下一個我們請黃婕維援諮詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5748.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5774.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
好謝謝主席我們請劉部長劉部長有請好部長好首先先跟您請教一下最近有一件事情我非常的在意就是在上禮拜四的時候台北市政府竟然說中央內政部有規定擺這個罷免的連署攤竟然要申請集會遊行那我不知道部長當然你有在媒體上面澄清過了可不可以在這邊再次的說明真的有這樣的規定嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5776.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5789.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
沒有,我跟委員報告一下,那個其實在不管是院長卓院長或者是我,在行政院接受立法委員質詢的時候都有提到說這是選舉罷免創制複決是人民的參政權利,那我們要保障他們的權利的時候要先能夠維護他們的安全 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5795.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5812.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
那台北市警局跟台北市政府他們最後有一個台北市警局的一個方案出來那我也是非常清楚的表達就是說第一個我們要保障所有公民他們的這個權益還有保障他們安全但是並沒有特別指涉到選舉罷免法那後來 對不起指涉到這個集會遊行法 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5815.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
5843.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
那後來我了解到就是因為台北市政府有一個單行法規他這個單行法規要求如果你要登記集會遊行的話呢他必須要六天前登記而且要繳交三萬元的租金那後來我要求警政署再通令全台灣各地的警政單位的同仁就是說還是以院長跟部長所指示的為原則跟所謂的集會遊行法完全都沒有相關 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
5844.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
5866.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
好 謝謝部長非常清楚的說明我認為台北市政府在這個基本的人民的公權利人民在行使他們公民的權益上面竟然用這種方式來刁難我認為非常的不齒那所以我覺得在這邊再次的說明是非常重要的我甚至懷疑說台北市政府這個蔣事府是不是有違反這個選罷法53條裡面妨礙公民來從事罷免活動這樣的規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
5871.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
5875.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
所以我認為在這邊必須要予以譴責我也不希望說明明是保障人民來行使集會遊行自由的這樣的權利最後變成刁難公民的這樣的限制好 那另外一件事情我也想要跟部長再次確認因為這個租屋補貼對很多年輕人來說真的是幫助非常大 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
5892.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
5896.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
那剛剛其實部長也有說到說租屋補貼從50萬戶已經提高到75萬戶了那在之前在審這個國土管理業務的預算的時候被藍白刪掉了1.4億然後凍結了41億那我認為這是非常嚴重的一件事情所以其實之前有試算過如果真的照這樣子刪下去凍下去其實租金補貼是會嚴重受到影響的那可不可以請部長在這邊說明一下這樣子是真的 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
5924.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
5938.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
補助的租戶的數字以及這個租金的金額是不是都會受到影響對也就是說未來的方案到底是降低他的這個核定件數或者是降低已經核定的個別的租金 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
5939.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
5966.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
目前我們仍然在這個研議當中但是我們仍然不希望朝這方面發展因為就像黃委員所說的申請租金補貼年輕族群真的非常多不管是單身或是就學或者是就業或者是有那個這個學齡前的兒童這個是我們比較關心的部分所以這個部分也是拜託委員可以在立法裡面多多幫忙包括山跟洞的部分千萬不要去動到這個租金補貼的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
5967.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
5994.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
好那我們能幫的都幫了阿富翼案也過了阿所以只是說接下來如果可以盡快解凍的話當然也是希望可以盡快解凍不要去影響年輕人的租金的這個權益那再來回到今天的這個主題喔我想要其實剛剛前面很多委員都有提到了租屋市場目前的資訊不對稱的問題還是蠻嚴重的所以我還是希望未來可以更公平然後更透明這個是大家都想要做到的 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
5994.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
6015.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
那我看了一下這個租金補貼其實實價登錄我認為是已經開始逐步有成效那我也在這邊想要另外肯定一件事情是這個租金電價的部分因為租金電價的新制上路之後確實對蠻多租客來說是一個福音那因為我自己過去也是十年的租屋族那也知道說過去大家都有被收過一度五塊這種事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
6016.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
6043.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
那新制上路之後不能超過當期的平均電價這件事情其實是對租客一個很重要的一個基本的權益啦那這個我這邊想要特別提到的是就是租金透明化這件事情那裡面我想要講的是這個代管業啊就是雖然你們說這個是民間對民間那我們政府端到底有沒有一些方式是就是我們跟代管業者來對然後讓他們跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
6046.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
6050.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
租客之間可以讓這個租賃市場是可以更透明的 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
6054.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
6079.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
包租代管業的部分的話其實在現在包租代管的建築裡面其實代管案件其實是佔非常大的一個比例那因為很多房東的部分他沒有多餘的心思去做一些管理一些修繕那現在的部分我們也其實也透過包租代管業者來協助那個我們房東那透過代管的部分把這些那個空屋把它釋放出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
6080.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
6095.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
房客可以受到照顧房東也可以輕鬆解決掉很多事情對但就我所知因為代管業者其實因為他不負責收租金嘛所以變成說租金的這個大致的區間跟他的金額其實就會變成是一個沒有辦法你們去 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
6096.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
6121.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
管理去介入的一個部分那個部分有關於代管要不要租金實價登錄的部分其實我們在去年有辦過一個座談那業者大概會有幾個顧慮第一個他沒有辦法掌握到一個租金的行情因為他不一定會收租第二個部分房東有些不希望他的一個租金資訊透明揭示所以他反而如果要強制實價登錄有些房東可能 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
6122.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
6148.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
就連代管都不給業者來做代管反而會讓整個一個市場更不專業所以業者大概會有這些疑問所以我在想要如何你們還能怎麼去協調業者讓他們同時願意揭露某種程度的可能是一個區間或者是更細緻的說那至少他可以提供基本的一個行情嘛那不要說很明確的數字那一步一步來但是不能說都是因為他們遇到困難所以就都不管 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
6150.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
6177.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
這就是我希望你們解決的啊那現在的話其實我們現在會就我們的資訊的部分來做一個統計的處理讓民眾可以透過相關的其他的方式來知道一個租金的透明的行情好這個真的要拜託那另外一件事情我想要講這個租屋品質啊因為其實在我們住宅法裡面規定有說申請政府的租屋補貼他必須要符合第40條定的這個基本的居住水準 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
6178.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
6191.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
那可是這個基本居住水準裡面的明文規定其實都只有提到說應該要符合多少的面積大小但是並沒有提到安全性的部分那其實我們現在租屋的市場裡面那種獨立的套房跟雅房就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
6194.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
6205.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
房東可能又把它分割成很多小的房間然後安全跟消防可能是有疑慮的這種並沒有放在這個基本居住水準裡面也就是說雖然我們政府非常用心給大家300億去進行租屋補貼可是因為這個基本的居住水準裡面沒有提到相關的安全部分也就是說雅房他出租的時候他一樣可以跟你們申請補貼可是他可能沒有符合安全的需求 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
6219.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
6230.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
所以我在這邊是希望具體建議這個基本居住水準裡面可不可以也去提一些安全性的需求否則現在市場上很多這種雅房其實完全不符合消防安全的規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
6234.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
6249.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
感謝委員的確我們當時在討論的時候大概因為因為像面積或有一些基本設施因為各縣市的差異很大所以當時我們也請地方政府是不是能夠就自己各縣市的特殊的規格去開 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
6250.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
6275.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
但委員剛剛提的這個安全的部分我講這個建議是非常值得重視那我們回去也會去做一個討論就是說看是不是在某些方面是給他這樣子的一個要求但是相對啦如果房東願意來加入的話我們也把他納入到後續的修繕費補助裡面把這些項目把他明文訂出來那這樣的話對他們來講雙方都是一個品質的提升對好很棒謝謝署長那我希望朝這方面來努力好謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
6278.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
6292.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
好 謝謝 下一位我們請黃建斌委員質詢好 謝謝主席 主席我們有請部長 劉部長有請 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6295.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6308.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
部長好 部長在討論今天註定市場透明化的議題之前本來想要把握跟你備詢的時間跟機會請你跟勞工 全國勞工們好好的談一下也表達一下你的態度就是上個禮拜我們討論到的這個審查 國定 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6312.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6329.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
加入這個法案其實我們這一黨的立場很簡單就是希望還家於民讓辛苦的勞工朋友能夠增加放假的天數減少工時這是提升勞犬一個很重要的基礎那勞動部長洪部長還表示說增加放假天數有正面討論的空間 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6329.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6358.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
那對於五一勞動節是否列入國定家的行政院長行政院的人事長也表達說他不反對所以可見其他部位都願意正面來看待勞工增加放假天數的事情不過部長上週非常遺憾的是身為主管機關的您對於修法增加天數議題不但沒有正面回應而且還講出一些令人匪夷所思甚至讓勞工生氣的話部長我想過勞的問題是勞工們的心酸跟血淚 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6360.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6379.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
那也是勞團真實的聲音所以本集在這邊也要嚴肅的跟部長您來說希望好好聽勞團的聲音跟災黨好好的來討論修法還給勞工應有的放假的權益那接下來我們回到今天謝謝委員的關心我想我上週在談到了 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6379.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6400.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
就是說勞動節我們的勞工本來就放假那內政部的主管是假日跟紀念日所以對於勞動節的勞工放假本來就是已經存在那但是勞動節當天要變成全國放假的話是其他非勞保的這些人的放假那這個有討論的空間但是討論多少的空間的話跟我們的實施辦法並沒有絕對的相關 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6405.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6430.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
謝謝部長 這個我們再來討論相信部長也願意為老公朋友的權益來爭取好 我們回到今天的議題就是目前的社會我們年輕朋友的工資偏低又面臨高房價 他不敢成家他也沒有辦法來成家所以以本席所在的台東來說很多鄉親都會選擇在北部或西部工作那為了能夠負擔我們的生活費跟房租只要選擇犧牲 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6432.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6452.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
他的生活品質房租越低越好但是在我們房價資訊不透明的情況下租屋主他完全是沒有他是處於資訊不對等這個弱勢地位那根據我們這個租客聯盟租屋狀況調查指出我們高達54.2%的租屋主因為第一個房東拒絕或者是 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6456.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6470.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
恐懼房東不利對待而無法使用租金抵稅在111年審計部的決算報告裡面更提到由於多數的房東他不願意繳稅他不願多繳稅或者以自用住 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6471.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6488.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
自用住宅稅率來申報來逃避我們租屋收入的瞌睡造成政府對租賃市場掌握非常有限產生租屋黑市的問題導致中央以及地方機關雖然推動租屋補助的措施但他卻無法發揮效益我想除了 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6492.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6507.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
黑市以外非住宅的稅率問題也讓許多的租客受到影響喔部長如果你是租客你會去查屋主的不動產他是屬於自用住宅還是辦公室嗎我想一般的租客不會了解嘛對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6508.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6531.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
那台中就有一個案例一個年輕人他租屋前他問房東說他可不可以申請租屋補助結果租了之後去申請發現他登記是用辦公室的不是自用住宅所以不符合這個補貼的條件然後被退件那這樣的情況我想不只是個案的問題很多地方都有發生這個就是資訊不對等的狀況下租屋主他面臨的困境跟困難 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6532.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6547.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
那我想不論從民眾的感受或者實際的社會案例裡面或者是審計部的說法都可以看得出來目前的政策遠遠不足不過本席看了你的報告內容內容總共是七頁半 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6549.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6566.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
結果前面的五頁都是在幫內政部說我們內政部做了哪些事做得多好結果民眾最想知道的那一部分就是未來我們政府該如何改善跟精進相關的內容只有一頁左右而已我想今天內政部的報告在民眾眼裡面是非常的敷衍又不及格 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6567.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6581.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
那我想今天內政委員會排定內政部來報告就是希望能夠聽聽內政部你們怎麼來具體的改善我們台灣未來租屋市場長年資訊不透明的問題嘛在這邊本席也希望喔身為不動產買賣出租議題的主管機關 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6585.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6601.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
內政部應該更加負起責任讓民眾看到你們有意願再向前走一步幫助民眾掌握市場的實際供需量跟交易的金額然後進一步來制定相對應的多元居住政策 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6602.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6620.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
讓房東房客都能夠更有機可循有衣可循透過更加透明的規則使得租屋的市場邁向更健康成熟的方向那這邊本期也具體的建議我想除了修法相關的修法之外政府現在其實就可以做一件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6621.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6638.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
就是將我們手邊大量的這個租屋市場的資訊做定期性的分析跟報告我們公佈各區域之間的租屋價格的區間我們建立一個官方的平台我們公佈我們北京百分之百都公佈了是好我們讓我們的租屋組可以有需求就可以進行比較嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6638.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6642.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
讓我們房東在訂價格的時候他也有一個參考依據租客也大概知道說我大概市場在哪邊我們避免租的黑市持續的損害我們租客的權益請我們內政部下半部分能夠來演繹這個事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6657.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6673.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
謝謝委員我們剛剛已經回答過很多委員就是公部門能夠掌握的租屋市場的資訊已經公布所以現在租屋市場百分之六成總共六成是有效租約的話是我們內政部公布而且已經公布兩次了這個在租屋市場是有定毛的效果 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6674.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6692.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
但是那個剛剛委員所垂詢的就是說不管你是要提出比較好的管制措施或是比較好的引導措施在法律上我們能做的已經做到非常多但是比較重點就是說我剛剛一再強調的說租屋市場的實況因為它是現行民法規定這個是私人對私人之間 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6693.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
6702.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
他們的這個實價登錄的部分不容易讓他可以對外公佈那如果他們都是提供不實的資訊讓我們公部門來公佈的話反而會影響到租屋市場的部分那再來就是說剛剛委員有提到你說在台東的地區當然那個社經階層比較這個不高的部分的話呢可能要申請租金比較不容易我跟委員報告一下台東縣到目前為止我們核定的這個租金補貼的戶數已經有4107戶 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
6722.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
6746.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
那現在所要撥款的金額高達是4000多萬所以事實上在很多不管是非六都的偏鄉地區申請租金補貼相當的多那我們的內政部的立場不一定是站在房東的立場我們是站在比較多數族群的租客的市場上面來做幫忙但是如果我們現在強制他們要做不實的實價登錄 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
6747.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
6755.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
反而發生很多法律上糾紛的時候整個租屋市場反而不利於租客也就是說房東要出租啊啦那我們現在說房東如果出租太貴怎麼辦那太貴怎麼辦有很多不同的方式我們提出了要可以幫房東來減稅可是他們要不要報稅的問題呢那大概就是我們不要跟財政部一起來努力還有一個那個租期很短 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
6770.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
6776.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
有的人他去那邊三個月那我們要求他三個月就要把租金就直接要做實價登錄實價登錄放在我們公佈門的網站他這個租賃契約可能已經解約了那另外按照我們現在行政院消保會的規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
6785.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
6803.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
譬如說包括這個管理費水電等等這些啦都要把它弄非常清楚不可以劣跡進去我們已經在去年就公佈所以事實上呢是一步一步的採取穩健跟往前推動的市場倒不是委員所說的早上內政部都沒有在處理現在我們所根據的法律或條例上的規範我們能夠處理的部分只要不涉及個資的我們幾乎都是採取開放而且馬上對外公佈 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
6810.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
6822.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
好 謝謝副長非常詳細的說明我們繼續為我們未來的這個房租的這個租客的權益來做一起來努力那謝謝部長也謝謝主席謝謝黃金平委員 下一位我們請丁學忠委員質詢感謝主席 請讓副長 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
6836.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
6844.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
我們今天要討論這個租房市場的問題我們租房市場主要的年齡階層都等於30歲以下左右這個年輕人近期我們這個民間 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
6859.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
6863.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
統計數據,在房價比較高的各國所購房屋平均都已經到40倍,代表我們出銷的醫療有超過10年,都要靠這個做出來度過,所以我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
6875.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
6878.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
這個房租是年輕人最實在的一個基礎對我們年輕人來說這個房價以外比較實在這個房租的問題但是以我們的組織總署的統計 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
6892.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
6896.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
出租的基礎是超過1.6%這個收益持續創下歷史新高再來看這幾年的數據出租的年增率有1.256% |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
6908.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
6913.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
這是連鎖19個月超過1.4年以來的累積增幅已經到9.3%這個驚人的數字凸顯出這個租屋族他的壓力當然這一直攀高的租金我們來經過當過過端各項進程也都最近這幾年有開始推動這個租屋補貼或是高租代管或是這個社會主宰 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
6936.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
6942.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
顯然啦,政府我們的努力,要是國度阻止到,我們這個租金的上漲啊,再來眼看今年那個電價可能又要上漲齁,中間還有一顆的高峰,所以今天請國長各個齁,這個租賃市場的這個各個,讓我們進行可以加強,才可以真正的廣授到我們這個租屋者 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
6962.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
6966.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
感謝委員的關心 針對租金補貼的部分 首席鄉也很感謝李煥英 玩意在很多法律庭館幫我們倒三工但是我們今年當的最大就是114年300億元的中央擴大租金補貼的部分大概有200億元 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
6982.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
6996.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
現在還是沒有辦法由行政院的公務預算來撥補我想我們會非常的努力來幫忙尤其是年輕的租屋的族群跟委員報告一下像目前我們現在所核定的64萬戶裡面40歲以下的大概佔54% |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
7001.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
7021.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
也就是說將近有34.7萬戶跟青年族群是走我們這個租金補貼的部分那也希望委員能夠多多幫忙就是租金補貼的部分在未來在山洞的部分不要再走這個山跟洞的方式因為要不然到年底的時候我們會可能要減少它這個租金補貼 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
7022.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
7038.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
或者會降低他租金補貼的申請戶數這是我們最大的期盼那在雲林縣雖然說雲林縣是農業大縣可是雲林縣也是有很多申請租金補貼的部分在定位碗理所服務的婚姻館裡面申請這個合併戶數已經是13,383戶裡面大概超過1億 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
7047.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
7066.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
需要撥款的金額是超過一億啦齁但是到十一月的時候會用慶米紅裡面就沒米拜託你倒三天他還可以我們應該我們的我們結帳的我不知道這是立法院的程序我們就尊重立法院的程序所以這可能我們來建國要跟立法院要跟我們我們現在已經跟立法院在溝通我們內政部是跟著行政院的這個政策方向來走的齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
7076.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
7079.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
好啊 其實 把我們這個與省用餘在民間 用餘在民間身上我們是一定都全力支持啦 一定全力支持 感謝委員相信說 我們國中你也知道說 我連一戶人 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
7094.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
7104.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
一個人也沒有跟你們同時一個人也沒有跟你們刪除啦依賴的過分啦我們尊重一彎 但是我們不敢這樣用啦 因為就沒白紙黑紙給我們行政院的公文我們是不敢這樣用 公文我們沒辦法照顧他們的法律犯罪依賴來做這些事情 這是縣跟縣溝通的部分啦 是是是 我們是將對地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
7119.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
7120.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
的訴求來給我們鼓掌歡迎當然這個委員會前面有討論我們委員都要求來政府要強化這個資金的價格的揭露但一直以來我們政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
7134.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
7140.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
有連這個實際房東房客數量到底多少我們要求說有一個很明顯的確定沒有沒有 我跟那個委員報告一下我剛才有在我們的報告裡面說到只要是公募文裡面包括包租代管或者是我們的住宅 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
7151.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
7177.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
或者是我們可以有效掌握到我們已經公佈了大約六成那另外的沒有辦法公佈的部分可能譬如說他的那個他是私人跟私人之間的這個契約你要去掌握到他的契約真的是非常的不容易那現在我們就是想辦法要縮小譬如說只要能夠介入我知道財政部要提供多少減稅措施 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
7178.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
7193.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
但是有些房東他可能也不願意他覺得說我如果提供我的租金的範圍之後雖然可以減稅但是大家都知道我租了多少錢還有重要的就是他提供的這個價格他提供的這個租金到底是對還是不對那我們沒有辦法公部門沒有辦法幫私人的民法契約上面的這個租賃條約跟他做這個保證說我這個保證這個要做一萬塊是一萬塊還是真的太慢二塊 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
7207.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
7212.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
所以事實上我們現在公佈了在公佈門能夠公佈出去的租金市場是做定貓譬如說我們在大陸或是在粉林這個地方有某一個社宅或是某一個區域裡面我們公佈大概這個價格是多少的話其他的人可以來稍微看一下差不多這個介紹不要超過太多這個鄉鎮啦這個鄉鎮其實有可能因為是有很多介紹 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
7236.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
7243.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
我們分成四分位然後根據他的房型又分了大概分成三所以其中有十二個部分是可以做處理的差不多這個區塊啦你不可能一間一間啦這個區塊每個多少這樣啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
7251.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
7255.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
他們這個廣場起來做活動對 他是幾層的 還是幾戶 還是一戶的 還是獨立套房 這我們都有分區在做但是我們這個只能達到定毛的效果 因為房子又有新又有古 還有一間一座或是外座 還有地段 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7268.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7292.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
這個博文是比較複雜但是我們盡量朝著透明化來發展但是百分之百透明化按照台灣是一個尊重法治跟尊重私人的個資的話是做不到的啦好 還有一項問題就是我們這個我們這個租屋網站訊息的這個系統我們現在要做的工作是朝日當時半年以後 下一次什麼時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7296.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7313.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
我們預計我們現在已經就是去年3月去年8月跟今年1月已經公佈那我們預計在今年的6月跟今年的12月會再公佈那個新的這些租這會持續的調整應該是公格後的最終的版本 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7315.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7335.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
我們每一次都會公布出來新的就表示說我們繼續收集這個統計資料看起來我們大概是每半年會公布一次像那個屋齡啦 類型一樣一樣 會我們在統計上面這個很容易做得到譬如說屋齡一定是越來越老不可能越來越新啦這個是不可能的好 感謝國長感謝主席 謝謝好 謝謝第一學中委員的質詢也謝謝部長接下來我們請劉許廷委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7347.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7351.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
好 謝謝主席啊 劉部長有請有請部長好 部長辛苦啦剛剛大家在談這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7356.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7382.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
相關預算一些解凍其實我今天排這個案子不外乎也是為解凍做準備因為我們談租金補貼難免凍結當然就是監督的延伸希望在這個相關居住正義的題目上面我們的政府機關有很好的KPI而且有很好的執行成效那當然大家就不會為難預算那我想目前為止都算有一些進展那你還沒辦法嘛你總要等預算總統公告失效之後才能開始排解凍案嘛這我想部長也不會反對這是標準的作業流程 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7383.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7410.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
那本席作為召委我可以在這邊非常開放的跟部長說如果內政部只要準備好相關的報告我們趕快走程序這個你要求本席來做排案解凍我也非常樂意支持就希望內政部速度加快好不好這樣大家都不擔心可以嗎謝謝召委好謝謝剛剛很多委員都談這個這個租賃市場的這些相關的一些改革那不只部長我還拜託主席再幫我們請財政部一起因為我先從大方向開始談 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7413.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7431.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
剛剛蘇小慧委員講紅蘿蔔跟棒子然後我們的政府機關不太願意直接面對問題的核心其實如果按照全部大家都叫病叫假都給他課稅的狀況來講房東當然會負擔比較多的稅負那從政府機關的角度他也會擔心所謂有轉嫁的效果 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7431.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7450.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
我收到因為我被課很重的稅啊所以我又變相的調漲了房租壓力其實很大所以其實談這件事情應該要好好思考一個方向也就是說現在的這個房東的租金所得其實並計他的個人所得嘛通常可以當房東就好一點啊對不對所以他可能本來的所得就很高了 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
7451.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
7475.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
所以他這個房屋的租金所得加在他本來的所得上面他可能課12% 20%甚至40%嘛 對不對所以壓力很大 對不對所以一直都有人在倡議就是說財政部這邊要不要思考一下把租金所得獨立出來變一個稅務這樣是不是讓我們的行政機關根據你可能要調節市場的狀況有的時候要鼓勵一下有的時候要收緊一下我是不是透過這個稅務跟稅率的調整才能夠比較好針對房東的課稅來做處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
7478.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
7502.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
部長 劉部長你認同這樣的做法嗎如果我們有一個獨立相關的稅務來討論就是說這個房屋租金所得房屋租金所得稅然後他有一個獨立的稅率的話這樣會不會比較好調控就我們的目的事業主管來講我覺得這是一個很好的方向但是稅務還是不是內政部所主導我不知道我不能說是或是不是我要問你的意見嘛所以你覺得好方向來財政部有沒有針對這件事情做思考 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
7503.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
7529.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
跟委員報告我們現在的那個綜合所得稅他的稅率他可能所得很低他是0嘛那他有可能所得很高他可能是40那我們如果在中間切一個稅率譬如說20這個稅率的話那高所得者他會降稅然後是用0啊或者是5的比較所得低的他就會稅負就會增加啦那以房東而言其實有很多房東他其實他如果只有出租一兩間兩三間的房屋他的那個稅負算起來因為我們有 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
7532.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
7533.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
我沒有講說他一定20%我講說獨立一個稅務然後你看我們的政策方向來做調整 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
7557.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
7582.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
你在這個獨立的稅務裡面你一樣可以有分級的機制嘛你一樣可以有一些相關機制的設定嘛對不對那另外再跟委員報告依照我們實務上跟房東接觸的經驗很多房東他不願意他的租金透明他其實是不想繳稅啊所以不管稅務是在10% 15%所以這第一個嘛你要有獨立稅務第二個這我不反對這我都可以公開講我不反對有所謂的大赦條款 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
7582.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
7587.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
因為豬市場黑市的狀況造成的政策負擔跟後果的成本其實遠遠高過你那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
7590.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
7618.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
幾萬幾萬的這樣一個稅率的所以你如果有先有獨立的稅務然後搭配所謂的大赦條款是不是讓大家通通可以納管然後進入一個新的秩序啦本期今天提這個就是你真的要提紅紅波的時候跟棒子的時候其實就是把這個東西進入深水區我希望財政部好好來做思考好不好跟內政部充分來做協商把這個東西列為可能的項目啦要不然你在現行的情況之下萬一政策遇到瓶頸那還是一樣嘛對不對好不好這第一個大方向來跟大家做思考那財政部再等一下齁來 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
7621.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
7636.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
這個前一陣子我們開了這個房租抵稅的記者會因為今年開始有新的這個制度上路嘛好就是說我們又把這個從變成劣局扣除額嘛好把它變成就是說也就是說給房客有更多的一個減稅的機會但是請問財政部目前的評估有多少房客知道這個事 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
7639.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
7661.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
跟委員報告因為今年五月報稅是首次要適用這個新的扣除那我們大概因為五月報稅我們大概會開始最近就會開始密集的宣導這個新措施這個大利多是對這是一個利多嘛那本期這兩個要求啦這前一陣子我們記者會我想財政部應該也看到了第一個就房租的資訊其實是有辦法代入你們現在都有報稅系統嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
7661.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
7670.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
那其實你抱歉現在其實按照內政部講大概說七十幾萬戶其實都有掌握資料那是不是可以直接做借接系統借接這第一個財政部現在做得到這個事嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
7672.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
7699.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
目前系統直接借接沒有辦法因為房客他報扣除了他另外有房客的條件那他不是直接內政部那邊過來的資料就可以用如果他技術上有困難你研究一下怎麼樣來突破這沒有關係因為馬上上路嘛我現在要你變出一個新的制度恐怕也為難你這個本席理解但你要往這個方向去思考就是說萬一你的宣導不到位導致今年還是很多人不知道這個利多的時候你的這個系統借接其實是可以補上很大一塊的缺口嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
7699.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
7712.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
所以請你去研究也許明年我們來做思考那第二個你好歹要有一個申訴或諮詢的專線吧那萬一遇到了不給報啊或者是說我不知道狀況我想多問一下請問財政部現在針對這樣子有沒有提供相關的一些服務 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
7713.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
7738.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
我們報稅諮詢本來就有相關的諮詢的服務是我的意思是說針對新制啦這個抵稅諮詢啦你要特別去講一下有新制諮詢的這個申訴專線啦那你會有提供資料啊這我們要跟我們的租屋朋友來做宣告就是我們會有很多的管道不管是諮詢或者是他的QA沒關係你把它整理出來好那個其實讓大家都去協助去轉發其實都對你的政策宣導是有幫助的好不好好 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
7739.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
7754.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
好那謝謝財政部來我們繼續來內政部部長換你了辛苦這我們今天在討論租屋市場透明化對不對那前面本席曾經有提過就是說比如說包租代管先來做所謂的實價登錄那當然我們當初的政府機關這個講說 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
7755.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
7776.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
這個一步跨得太快我們希望給政府機關一點時間來分的步子來前進這個本席願意尊重也在密切觀察你們的表現所以你們現在推出了這個所謂的租金統計資訊也就是剛剛部長所報告的這個分行政區來做這個這個25分位50分位跟75分位的所謂的租金市場的這個揭露啦那 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
7778.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
7799.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
我必須講說有進步但是還有很大的進步空間因為你第一次發布的時候真的只有行政區跟最粗略的版本那照你今年年初發布的稍微細了一點至少開始有一整戶的獨立套房的跟分租的有開始往比較細緻的方向來前進這一點是不錯的但是核心的問題本期還是要透過這一次的質詢來強力的表達 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
7800.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
7827.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
第一個你這個租金的統計資訊是沒有獨立系統來 部長你這份PDF檔就是在你的內政部不動產資訊平台的租金統計資訊的PDF檔它的點閱次數是多少你們有統計嗎這個點閱次數我們應該是會查得到但是我目前沒有手邊資料目前沒有對不對你覺得是很多還是很少我認為應該會有一些人會有一些人但是其實知道的人不多啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
7828.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
7857.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
這以本席的了解啦知道的人恐怕不多沒關係你把點閱數字調出來你會後提供給大家參考因為這是一個重要的指標我為什麼講說要有獨立系統因為那系統就像大家查實價登錄一樣嘛我想買房子的時候我去查實價登錄系統或是我想租房子的時候我也會跟民間的業者去查詢相關的行情要嘛你做出內政部的獨立系統好好推廣要嘛你要跟比如民間的比如說那種591租屋網等等你來做借街也不是壞事你這樣是不是整個的資訊的易達性會比較高好這是本席的第一個提醒 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
7857.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
7873.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
中委員報告一下那個有關於推廣的部分我們現在跟591已經有合作那他們會可以連結過來包含我們也通把那個告知所有你跟各個民間有在租房的平台來做串聯啦然後要把這一樣你要把成果附上來因為你現在我可以炒到成果大概只有長這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
7874.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
7899.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
好 第二 所以要嘛你有獨立系統 要嘛你跟民間姐姐 這第一個建議第二要細分生活圈啦 以本期的選區龜山來講就雖然你龜山區是一區對不對 跟我龜山區是四個生活圈啦渥渝區回籠跟新莊很靠近 渥渝區平頂跟林口很靠近渥渝區跟桃園很靠近 渥渝區跟蘆竹很靠近它其實還是有生活圈的差異啦所以我還是希望 一步步來做沒有關係我今天講你願意有時間 你只要讓我看到每半年有成果 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
7899.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
7915.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
這個我都會正面看待因為這本來就要逐步來處理但是你說從行政區要繼續往下走不要只是停在這裡要不然畢竟粗略啊因為一個龜山區我到底以哪一個生活圈為準呢每一個生活圈其實狀況是不一樣的所以我覺得要氣氛生活圈你們有這樣子的打算跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
7918.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
7932.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
狀況嗎跟委員報告其實跟租屋網借街其實大概就是一個起步啦因為你也知道說租屋網他才會用一些關鍵的地點我知道委員的意思大概就是說把一些關鍵地點作為一個區分這或許是長期我們可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
7933.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
7950.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
逐步來做但是我們當然也會過程會很小心因為因為有些部分因為不管是學區也好或一些關鍵的工作地點那當然常常會有出現租金異常波動的這個我們會在中間再小心的來控制這個部分好第三個是沒有美萍的這個租金中位數 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
7951.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
7975.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
因為你這個有數字但是還是很粗略啦我現在就講嘛 不管是類別也好 地理位置也好或者是你相關的這個數字也好 你都要更詳細嘛你越詳細你才會越接近透明嘛 對不對來 請回答跟委員報告 那個部分委員建議美萍的那個部分的話我們現在也在研議當中那我們會串接我們的地級資料會知道它的面積有多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
7975.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
7986.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
那這個部分的話因為會有幾個限制就是可能分出的部分面積就比較難掌握所以我們會從整層跟整套的整層跟整套先做嘛所以我想好 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
7987.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
8013.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
這樣子今天提了這三個要求對不對你是每半年更新資料嗎還是多長時間更新資料現在的話規劃是6月跟12月所以我下一次看到更新資料的時候是6月對不對我可以多看到哪些哪些具體的資訊那個有關於美萍的那個租金單價現在已經在做一個處理那因為還要看資料匯進來的一個品質是怎麼樣那這個部分的話我們已經現在演繹當中了 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
8013.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
8026.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
好我希望六月可以看到好的結果啦好不好我們就你既然講說給你時間來分來往前走這個我願意給你時間但你要讓讓他讓最後他可以變成一個符合租客權益期待的這樣子的一個版本齁好這個蕭寶處麻煩一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
8036.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
8063.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
我也好這個我們每一年都在針對不管是租屋的基於透明化的政策等等其實都涉及這個相關法令的一些修正那麼相關法令的一些修正當然就跟你的契約等等會有一定的聯動跟關係嘛那租賃行為當然是消費市場的行為前一陣子我們台灣市政府查了一下這明明法令一直更新可是市售大概有六成的租賃契約因為大家都用定型化契約嘛一拿一簽蓋章就成立了嘛可是你這六成以上都是舊版 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
8064.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
8091.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
然後你就說當然我們就說輔導下架輔導下架有用嗎更新的狀況怎麼樣你有掌握嗎這個更新的部分因為我們內政部呢都長期以來都有他定一個計畫從111年以來內政部都有辦一些這個這個查核的計畫針對這個市售的通路上面的租賃契約到底合不合規做一些討論然後做一些查核那其中有一年我們也是跟內政部一併去查核我們都會協助他們一起去查核那內政部查核的結果怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
8092.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
8105.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
向委員報告除了跟消保處合作之外我們也有延定計劃要求縣市政府這邊要來做一個查核從111年我們第一次的話不合格率的部分就是舊版的話大概是 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
8107.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
8136.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
比例 契約的比例大概是三成不過112年跟113年的話就降到5%跟7%所以是有明顯的下降那去年的部分因為電價新制的部分有新的更新的一個契約的一個狀況所以舊版的比例又拉高不過我們這個現在還在持續在做這個方面的一個查核向委員報告這我其中拿一項來提醒你啦比如說要記載這個房屋基本資料等等然後它其實要提供圖說嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
8137.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
8153.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
這個就本期的了解在市售的定型化契約上完全沒有預留相關的空間了所以我是覺得既然這個法規都有在滾動式來修正其實你這個定型化契約的範本跟這個你要與時均的更新啊你要讓業者可以馬上跟上啊這樣子才有辦法具體來做下降這是本期的另外一個提醒 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
8154.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
8181.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
來最後一個題目不好意思我今天耽誤了一點時間我還是要請部長我們討論一下這個社宅的分級租金制度齁這去年的十月喔大家這個民團有民團的意見這本席了解那部裡面有部裡面的為難這個我也知道中央有中央的想法地方有地方的想法它是一個很困難的題目但是在大家的追蹤之下這個在去年的十月基本上開始找到共識了喔大概會是用這樣子的方式來調整我就不多贅述喔來我請問一下這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
8183.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
8188.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
署長或者是部長就是這個版本了嗎目前大概就是26號還會用這個版本繼續討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
8191.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
8214.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
什麼時候會有一個明確的定案應該這麼說這樣分期以後我們還是要了解各縣市政府如果他確定執行的話他可能還會有什麼樣的問題或困擾目前你掌握到的狀況有哪些問題或困難嗎目前來講因為各個縣市對這樣的一個尤其是這個中低收入戶的一個認定那他們當然是期待是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
8216.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
8241.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
衛福部的這個中低收入的這個數據是他們一般來講是最信任的啦也是大概目前來講比較所以他們回去他們上次回去就說大概回去會按照這個去了解看看看他們這樣是不是確定可以做好這樣的一個分級那第二個就是說因為大概非六都會以中央為準那大概我們也有請駐都也確認看看這樣的一個操作模式這樣是不是確定都可行 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
8241.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
8270.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
所以未來就會照這個原則上只要沒有太大的問題就會照這個方向確定定案了嗎大致上會照這個方向OK好那如果喔我多問兩個問題喔如果以採取分級租金現在比如說新北台北桃園啊這個他們也會配合這個版本然後大家做修正嗎還是說他們會再加碼或者是說提供更好的版本這個其實個性是多少有一點為難多少有一點為難對大家制度本來不一樣像桃園像桃園大概應該就很困難因為它現在已經面臨要調整也很辛苦的一個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
8271.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
8279.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
所以他們原則上也會follow這個制度嗎希望啦但是不一定能夠做得到沒有強制力因為我們沒有一定強制他做因為各縣市狀況不一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
8281.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
8303.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
好 這個我希望喔 這個趕快溝通因為從完全沒有共識 對不對本來是什麼身分別釋價打折跟分級租金收取制度嘛到現在大家開始聚焦那我就希望這個部裡面要多加油啦 好不好針對這樣的事情我希望3月26號的會議裡面可以聽到好消息會議的結果一定要讓我們知道因為我們都很關心這個相關政策的一個推動的進度 可以嗎好好 謝謝部長 組長 辛苦了 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
8306.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
8319.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
先請署長跟市長署長跟市長就請謝謝昭偉剛剛也講得很清楚今天排這個豬肉市場透明化的這個議程是為了提 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
8336.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
8354.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
為了這個相關預算的解凍做準備啦我感到非常的欣慰那去年在動這筆預算跟刪另外一筆預算的時候嘴臉可不是這樣但是好的開始啦我們今天可以好好來討論這個租賃市場但是剛剛這個朝偉在討論這個宣導費用的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
8363.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
8391.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
就是在檢討這個地政司在跟所有的包含新的契約包含我們去年的住宅租賃定型化契約裡面對於電價實收實付的原則這一項那就約宣導的部分可能會造成你如果下去宣導或者是有房客直接來檢舉相關的這些內容的話會發生一件事情會有很多房客會有很多房東被重罰為什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
8393.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
8421.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
因為可能他還是就約沒有換約那所以就約的比例會非常高那你們去年的這個宣導費用被刪了多少?向委員報告一下齁那個部分的話是由縣市政府來做一個執行所以業務費的話是由縣府來縣市政府來執行縣市政府沒有被刪到所以你們的宣導費用那我們的部分就會透過新聞管道的部分來做一個宣導好你們的宣導費用不會宣導到這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
8422.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
8437.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
另外對於去年度我在這邊主張有很多的租客那其實需要遇到這些包含房東不給他報租屋補貼的時候那他必須要有一個專線後來內政部有成立了一個專線嘛那這個專線現在的運作狀況怎樣有沒有接下來 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
8443.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
8458.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
的計畫非常感謝委員因為有委員的一個支持所以我們現在跟法輔基金會來做一個租屋糾紛的一個諮詢的部分那現在這個專線的部分是法輔基金會的一個專線那我們大概也統計過還是在法輔裡面對對對 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
8459.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
8474.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
那從去年的8月到現在總共7個月的話已經有2700件的一個諮詢電話大概平均的話一個月會有400通的一個電話那是不是應該要來成立一個內政部的服務專線或者是直接在內政部服務專線裡面來處理這個事情請署長來署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
8483.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
8498.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
就這個部分的確啦因為發生在租金補貼的部分是最多啦我想這個部分因為我們本來有一個有一個服務的專區啦就是說我們也有相關的專線那過去大概都以資格查詢或者是協助他 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
8499.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
8520.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
怎麼樣去申請為主那其實這一年多來任務已經慢慢可以在減少因為很多回歸到地方政府去審查那所以未來我們來跟地政室討論一下我們是不是把兩個合併起來把這個服務的量能就是針對租屋糾紛的部分把量能把它擴大那這部分我們雙方一起來我這邊其實收到的最多的還是這樣那我相信 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
8521.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
8534.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
希望在今年度是可以減少這一方面的問題就是說還是有租客跟房東之間他們存在一個房東不希望租客去報租務補貼雖然財政部已經在這邊講了好幾次說他們不會用這個契約來對房東施予課稅但是房東還是會害怕因為有這個所得稅它是跟所得稅合併的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
8547.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
8570.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
如果所得稅在18萬以內年所得稅在18萬以內可以減免的話其實對很多房東來講他可能會卡到稅率43%或20%的問題會影響到房東會要求租客不要這樣所以租客其實打電話進來大部分的問題是說房東這樣問房東這樣要求那他們還可以申請嗎署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
8572.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
8580.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
如果你講出來他們還可以申請的話萬一他們沒有房子租萬一他們因為這樣被房東趕出去責任就大了 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
8582.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
8610.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
了解所以這部分的確在他們雙方在法律上或是民事的溝通上這的確都還要進一步努力所以我才剛剛會委員的建議是我們現在做法就是說我們未來把我們的這一個新莊的這個服務中心想辦法來跟這個法府這邊雙方來結合看是不是透過不管是透過服務上的溝通或是民事上法律上的一個解決這我們雙方都來努力我們再合作來努力看看 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
8611.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
8634.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
謝謝今年還是會有大量的這個租金補貼的申請之外高雄今年會有開始有包含我們的從實安居包含高雄其他的這些社會住宅會開始有包租代管業者需要進去服務所有的這些可能需要這些社宅的這些朋友們那所以呢包租代管的業者變成非常 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
8635.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
8647.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
非常龐大的業務需要處理那我也在今年辦理會刊的時候感謝署長還有次長當天都有來那因為高雄市政府的這個設宅已經先開始先行了 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
8647.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
8670.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
所以當天高雄市政府其實有傳授很多給我們內政部未來他們所遇到的問題 包含管理那包含這些設備的更新 包含冷氣等等都是接下來整個包含住戶中心 包含國路署 包含這個所有要進行包租代管的業者所會碰到的問題那所以我想要比較一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
8673.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
8694.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
所有的縣市裡面我想高雄的社宅的規劃跟興建是跑在最前面那比新北市比桃園市比台北市比台中市都還要都還要多而且都還要快那台中市目前申請租金補貼的比例卻是全國最高 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
8695.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
8712.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
它全國最高,但是在這個社宅的興建上又是在六都裡面是排行第五那有沒有相關的這些問題來顯示說台中市在財化法規劃下,現在預算才剛公告 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
8715.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
8736.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
那接下來部長之前也有大概有說明我們的如果在財化法執行下去的話我們的預算執行可能會減少28%是這個對於大量興建社宅規劃社宅的高雄市與台中市比較不積極這樣比較起來相關的這些補貼你覺得合理嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
8740.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
8753.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
應該這麼說啦 因為我們補貼是沒有分縣市啦那其實在這裡面很大的一個族群是學生族群那因為以我們所知大概在台中大概光學生申請的戶數大概就將近9萬戶 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
8754.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
8772.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
所以在這部分的數量其實相對是龐大那其實到雙北也有很大的數量是這一個學生族群那所以相對來講他們對社宅的需求不管是現在就讀的學生或是剛出年輕剛出社會年紀他需求是 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
8773.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
8786.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
非常的高那未來其實裁判法如果真的通過要執行的話那因為中央的裁員勢必會受到影響那所以我們在這個部分可能會把這個部分大概地方如果有新開發區的這個狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
8789.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
8817.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
那我們本來都期待新開發區能夠加速來興建社宅那中央會主動來出手來不管是取得土地或是成足土地可是那就就如果未來財源減少的話這個部分我們可能會把會希望由地方政府來負擔最大的一個責任那這樣的話那在就財化法以後的公平性來講大家都一樣要負責照顧年輕人所需要的社宅我們也要要求地方政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
8817.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
8840.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
也要負起比較大的責任我想這部分我們會從這方向來要求我過去也曾經主張我還是這樣主張包含這些縣市政府要提出這些不管是勢力重劃也好那內政部在審核的過程應該要先把適當的這些可能要蓋社宅的這些土地留下來用成本要求地方政府來辦或者是不然 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
8841.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
8853.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
來我中央來辦那我們還是希望內政部可以跟國土署可以趕快就這一方面來跟地方政府做一些相關的溝通跟討論好這沒有問題這我們持續再辦好謝謝好謝謝李博義委員這個我們預算的解凍應該這個會期可以處理完吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
8862.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
8877.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
應該可以啦齁那當初發新聞講說會影響租屋補貼是11月嘛那我們這個會期應該會在11月以前結束啦好不好所以請博弈委員不用太擔心齁絕對沒有問題我們在政府會討論的時候其實氣氛蠻好的嘛對不對好 謝謝下一位請吳清文為質詢好 謝謝主席我們一位同仁請我我們國土署署長部署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
8889.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
8894.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
還有我們的代理市長市長有請謝謝市長針對我們今天的自訂市場的一些我們的透明還有一些專題的報告那我們都知道租金補貼在本期的資料就有51萬點3萬匹這市場是一個非常大 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
8919.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
8933.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
但是我們都是知道說為什麼在新北的比例才到60.2%在我們都會去那裡有點不合理是不是請我們署長來說明一下是 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
8937.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
8958.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
其實是這樣因為在新北的租賃房屋裡面大概因為我們是從租金補貼這個數據出來那也就是說代表在租賃補貼裡面有一大塊是學生族群也就是說我們大概在除了學生族群以外的這一塊那也有可能他有一些是進不到租金補貼的這樣的一個範圍雙門檻嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
8963.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
8970.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
是門檻嗎?有可能是因為我們在租金補貼的部分有我說明一下應該這麼說啦就說因為我們有設定這個所得中位數的這樣的一個數據那這個所得中位數的這個數據或許在雙北裡面它代表的這個門檻還是比較偏低一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
8989.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
9012.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
也就是說讓很多可能雙薪家庭那他可能平均這個所得是超過這個所得中位數的他可能就過不了所以這也是但是因為在雙北又跟其他縣市差異很大因為所得中位數已經顯示說所得中位數的劃分方式的話在其他縣市是一致的大家出現的那個涵蓋率都很高 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
9012.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
9038.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
但只有在雙北是偏低的那或許這個部分是我們後續在檢討這樣的一個制度的時候再重新來做一個調整因為在調整這個其實是非常困難因為它也會跟相關的這個房東的這個公益出租人的這個房租上限還有這個免稅它雙方是連動在一起的所以這個部分我們後續應該還可以再來做一個討論那看是不是把未來能夠照顧的比例能夠再拉高一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
9039.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
9052.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
好謝謝 謝謝署長因為齁 既然齁因為租屋的市場齁在在我們新北齁 他的市場非常大你說今天他會來作出尤其在年輕人齁覺得他的他的需求 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
9053.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
9059.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
高,他沒有理由說不來申請租屋補助,在這個部分我們一定要深入去了解所以,來,現在正在說這個租屋補助的部分,剛才我們李博議說的,我們朝夕擺這個應該是預算要解凍啦這都是因為牽扯到未來,在租屋補貼,在年輕人我們都是要 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
9080.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
9104.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
去考量到但是現在你說針對我們包租代管很多因為房東的問題但是你說在我們新北很多國有土地應該我們從國有土地我們大量的興建一些社會住宅這是一個比較永續你說很多都是四地重劃七段徵收很多你像 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
9105.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
9130.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
新增啊 新增溫泉要好幾百公頃你那個土地都要提供啊我們都是來推動我們的社會住宅因為這市場很多年輕人他們的需求嘛他們買不起房子啊所以說我們租補貼 你要補貼 我們房價要高他們又更不可能買得起那我們就是從社會住宅來找索是不是有署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
9133.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
9158.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
其實跟委員報告啦因為雙北的確是需求量最大那但是其實找地也是最辛苦的那所以我想我們在過去這一年多來大概都跟地方縣市政府溝通那所有的新開發區都應該要預留雙北大概百分之五希望能夠留出百分之五的土地來做這個社會住宅那第二個就是說因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
9160.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
9186.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
預留了以後其實也有這個購地租地或跟興建的一個成本那所以我們大概在目前都還是非常努力在執行那當然就會像剛剛我跟其他如果財化法真的去通過以後那我們就必須要在這個責任要再要求在地方政府身上因為變成說地方政府要更積極的來興建否則以現在來講中央蓋的數量是已經超過地方而且這個數字是不斷的在拉大 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
9187.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
9203.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
我們希望地方政府要負起責任來多興建社會住宅因為不要只有賣地因為會很可惜因為賣完就沒有了那在都會區區越來越難找地那這部分我們還是會一直要求地方政府要能夠努力來負起責任來興建沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
9206.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
9222.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
這個市長其實你說好百分之五你要提供做社會住宅的需求但是你一定要把它記住裡面備住在裡面你就這個土地就是不能賣你一定要蓋我就要求我們才通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
9223.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
9238.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
是現在就是區分啦都市計畫的部分如果都市計畫的部分還在審議的部分大家是都有共識沒有問題現在就是說目前已經有在辦理重劃或屈增當中已經在辦重劃屈增甚至有些已經在配地了 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
9239.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
9263.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
那這一些就是要透過協商因為他在原來都市計畫裡面沒有被註明那所以這要透過協商那去要求他要去做這個相關的一個興建所以有部分是我們這一年多多努力那其實縣市政府也大多數都有配合做這樣的一個動作好 我們是要解決他們那個我們的社會住宅的推動還有我們的租屋的需求這樣才能徹底的解決年輕人的問題好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
9269.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
9275.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
謝謝吳清明委員跟委員會報告張其凱委員質詢完畢之後我們休息五分鐘下一位我們請徐宇貞委員質詢謝謝教委我們請劉世芳部長以及負稅署倪副署長劉部長倪副署長有請 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
9293.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
9308.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
我想請教部長跟我們您副署長我們現在台灣的房價居高不下然後內政部不動產的資訊平台指出2024年第三季全台灣的房價所得比創新高 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
9308.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
9327.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
來到10.82倍那也就是說民眾要不吃不喝10.82年才能夠買得起房子那我們再看看各縣市的狀況你看到台北市需要16.6年新北市需要14.03年再看看房貸的負擔率的統計 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
9328.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
9357.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
全国的平均是46.8也创效新高那台北市房贷的负担率是71.82%新北市是60.69%这个数字显示就是全国家庭可支配的所得46.8%得拿来缴房贷尤其是台北市还要拿出七成来付房贷请问一下部长跟您副署长怎么样什么时候才能改善房价所得比偏高的情况 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
9361.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
9376.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
那個跟委員報告一下那個部分的話主要這個是屬於購屋負擔的一個部分那對於購屋負擔的部分的話當然我們政府這幾年其實有推動了非常多措施像平均地權條例的修法打草防一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
9376.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
9378.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
請問市長你認不認同現在的房價所得比是偏高的 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
9397.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
9411.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
現在的話是有相對的一個部分在台北是你的所得七成要來負擔房貸在各縣市我們可以看到其實幾乎啦平均46.8都要拿來付房貸所以我們現在的問題應該是要根本性問題是要解決這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
9415.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
9432.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
這個房價居高的問題嘛那當然因為房價居高所以很多人買不起只能租屋喔那尤其是這個年輕族群啊他們為了北漂或者到地方去別的地方去工作他們只能租屋那所以呢目前我們購物方面有這個實價登錄的平台 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
9434.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
9455.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
現在做得非常不錯那請問一下部長內政部可不可以做到租賃住宅的實價登錄讓民眾可以輕鬆的報告委員我們在今天的報告裡面有講得非常的清楚只要是公部門能夠掌握的資訊的話要求實價登錄我們都盡量做到這就是我們在租屋市場上面大概有60%左右我們已經公布了那也就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
9459.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
9471.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
另外40%我們就可以繼續來努力然後完成租賃的實價登錄我們會朝著經濟措施來努力但是呢 需要達到我已經剛剛我已經跟很多委員報告過第一個就是租賃契約裡面如果你雙方的是私人的租房東或是私人的這個租客那他們在做實價登錄上面的話會不會有不實的一個實價登錄還有就是他們的這個短期的租約啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
9486.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
9490.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
能不能達到用公佈門來公佈那這個呢就是在執行層面上會比較大的問題請問一下不實的實價登錄喔算不算違法 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
9496.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
9521.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
現在沒有規定所以不實實價登錄是可以的如果依照我們仲介的一個條例還有那個租賃條例的規定包租跟仲介的部分如果不實申報它是有罰則那因為現在委員主要是事成的部分就規範以外那個就回歸到民法的一個所以目前是沒有刑罰所以也難怪說房東跟房客之間他們可以用這樣的方式嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
9521.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
9541.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
那我想請教一下當然很多人認為我們也聽到很多說為什麼房東房客自己不去登錄的原因是因為他們知道房東有可能會因此不租給他或者是漲租金那也是因為這樣所以不能用這個住宅的這個租屋的這個住宅的實價登錄嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
9544.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
9566.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
委員主要應該是在講說是不是要全面實價登錄的問題那除了仲介跟轉租業者轉租業以外那個部分的話現在是沒有法源沒有法源那也就是說我們要修法的意思沒有立法的部分剛剛部長有提到就會有第一個租約不易掌握那資訊到底會不會失真會不會影響到市長那我問一下您副署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
9568.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
9589.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
這個財政部會不會藉由內政部建制這個租屋實價登錄對房東稽查課稅如果我們之後有這個租賃實價登錄的話跟委員包括現在的相關實價登錄制度都有法律都有明定說不可以作為課稅的依據好那所以沒有實價登錄我們現在所以不能作為課稅的依據也就是財政部不會查囉 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
9590.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
9613.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
不會透過用實價登錄的資料來查這樣子那也就是說查稅這件事情是本來財政部就該做的是是是所以不管我們實價登錄你都會做是是是那既然我覺得這個財政部為了這個付稅公平的一個原則嘛會積極的查這個查處逃漏稅那所以內政部是可以考慮啊針對這個實價登錄的部分我們能夠來積極的處理呢請問部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
9618.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
9638.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
報告委員我們現在按照法令上面的規範的部分能夠積極處理的其實我們都處理的差不多了就是像我們剛剛所說的還有的問題就是在法令的問題嗎因為沒辦法規範它在法律上面沒有這樣強制或者是說有非常大的這個所謂的棍子條款那所以這個是在我們而且呢現在的市場上面的就是會 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
9638.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
9661.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
产生那个负面的效应就是说我们有实价上去的话那会不会变成是租金上涨或者是说他那个房子租不到那这样子对于比较严重的都会地区比如说像双北这是我们目前所看到的比较严重的地区的话反而会造成负面的效果所以我们才在推动的时候是一种建为主我想这个部分我们今天就是讨论嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
9661.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
9676.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
還是希望內政部能夠提出解方看怎麼來去處理這樣的問題否則對於我想很多的租客來說他們也很希望有一個公開的平台他們可以很了解現在租金的狀況那另外再請教部長就是說我們現在看到社宅的租金問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
9677.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
9695.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
這個租金可負擔市社宅的這個核心價值那目前內政部是依照身份別來計算租金但是這種做法可能會造成不同所得卻繳交相同租金的垂直不公那另外呢如果租金是採市價打折的方式又會造成不同縣市社宅因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
9696.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
9717.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
市場的租金落差過大的水平不公那現在呢中央雖然有提出一些綜合的方案但是呢很像拼裝車沒有辦法真正解決這個財稅資料不足的問題而且也有可能會漏接落市的一個狀況那請問一下地方政府希望採取的是收入分級的方式處理那其實也吵了蠻久了那請問內政部有沒有新的方案 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
9719.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
9742.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
跟委員報告 其實我們在從111年開始都已經陸陸續續開過7次的會議那因為各縣市政府其實在六都裡面比較支持多的還是希望能夠原來有的這一個身分別的部分那再加上部分的這個所得分歧那所以我們也依據這樣陸陸續續開了7次會大概有一個定案也就是大概 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
9743.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
9765.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
不要再去走一定要完全所得分級也不要一定走身分分級那所以最新的這樣的雙方混合出來會分成四級那大概在這個月的26號那因為在去年11月已經開了第七次會議的時候大致上有一個共識但是回去要個別再了解看看事實上實施以後會不會有新的困擾所以這個部分26號會再來討論確認討論完如果確認大家都沒有問題我們來 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
9770.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
9794.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
政治來簽報不過這也是給各縣市一個原則一個處理的一個原則我想如果再經過大家的共同討論那在3月26號可以有這樣的一個報告出來我想我們大家也可以我想跟委員報告一下社會住宅的承租者這是我們內政部所主管的但是還有地方上所主管的部分我們都是列入一起討論那希望說會有共識那共識的還是會有原則跟例外 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
9795.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
9820.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
所以這個部分呢讓我們有一點時間再來做比較完整的處理我們也希望有完備的一個方案出來大家共同來解決但我想現在會需要租屋喔大家也希望能夠租到社會住宅那請部長看一下喔其實這個部分我已經也質詢過很多次了就是有關社會住宅興建的進度統計表部長可以看一下我們社宅的興建的統計表 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
9825.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
9842.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
我們現在以完工的話大概是有33,781戶這是在我們從114年2月28的我們在這個內政部不動產的資訊平台所download下來的我們可以看到然後新建中是54,134戶以絕標代開工是33,285戶總計是121,200戶那請問一下目前到底我們可以入住的有幾戶 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
9854.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
9864.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
我想就是這個數字現在的33,781那因為事實上因為已經在興建中的大概在未來這兩三年就會大量的 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
9864.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
9875.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
完成那所以這是過去8年來大家都做了一個努力因為現在內政部對外宣傳的都是說是12萬就是已經在執行中的但是我就要請教這個署長的是有幾戶是可以入住的所以是3萬多了解但是這也是代表供給不夠的問題那當然希望 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
9885.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
9910.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
我們當然希望能夠盡快的來去完成這樣的一個問題我們一定是盡快完成但是也是還是要表達就是說但是現在其實真正能夠入住就三萬多戶嘛應該表達是說大家還有很大的努力空間當然當然所以我的意思就是說我覺得政府要正視這個問題而不是就是美化那個數字比如說我們現在就是三萬多戶可以入住的沒有美化而且這個都是在努力中而且在執行中我們還是希望是說但是我們還是來正視這個問題我覺得比較重要不是還是要正視是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
9913.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
9926.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
我們希望地方政府要持續的努力因為我們看到的是地方政府越來越不見了所以我們也是要呼籲希望地方政府要持續的努力我們還是希望我們明確的把這個數字揭露出來那大家一起來努力好嗎最後不好意思 稍微一分鐘我想請教一下劉部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
9939.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
9958.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
就是根據行政院發布的2025年的性別圖像的性別不平等指數原來亞洲第一是台灣但現在已經被新加坡超前了也不再是亞洲第一而且已經連續兩年退步而且這次發布的成績也叫前次的退步三名請問部長您對於 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
9960.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
9987.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
民進黨總召柯建民發表明顯帶有歧視的言論他嗆聲要如舊院市長回歸家庭請問部長有什麼看法第一個我沒有聽到這個柯總召什麼時候講這些話那我是從媒體上知道的但是我想說任何一個人都不要用這個性別不平等或是性別不正確的這個方式來指涉任何人所以部長也是認為不該用這樣的一個方式來去 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
9988.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
10015.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
我已經講過因為我不清楚柯總召是講什麼話因為我想希望完整的內容會比較好不要有斷章取義新聞都有絕對沒有斷章取義您可以去看新聞那所以部長認為如果是柯總召講這樣的話請盧秀燕市長回歸家庭的話這樣是不適當的對嗎我想任何人講這樣的話的話呢不管他是什麼樣子的一個政黨色彩對於目前我們所推動的這個性別平等教育或性別平等都不是很公平 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
10015.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
10032.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
但是我一再強調我沒有針對個人因為個人他的前言後語是指什麼我並不清楚因為在很多政治人物在講的部分的話我都會比較審慎去看他的前面跟後面講的是什麼所以我很高興知道部長講到您對於這種性別平等您是捍衛性別平等的 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
10033.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
10060.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
也不該有這樣歧視的言論嘛對嗎 您是這樣謝謝指教是那所以呢我想針對部長來您正在推動一個地方民帶任意性別的保障名額改為三分之一嘛最近我們在推動這樣內政部在推動任何一個性別的保障名額所以這我想這也攸關於整個政府的一個性平形象啦所以還是希望部長對於性平的部分我們大家努力來去捍衛那也希望不要再有這種歧視的言論 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
10062.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
10082.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
好 謝謝 謝謝好 謝謝徐宇甄委員 下一位我們請張綺凱委員質詢好 可以 我覺得沒有問題我講一下 好 那請安排一下張委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
10096.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
10107.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
時間先暫停,還沒開始第一個時間暫停一下我宣告一下,因為我們統計處處長行動比較不方便一點我們就允許他坐著用麥克風來回答好不好跟委員會報告一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
10129.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
10152.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
今天27萬替代役的備役人員接到你們一顆震撼彈你們修了替代役、備役擴大的造級我看把連線、次數、日數全部都放寬了最重要是後面這個不限退役8年內 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
10153.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
10180.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
這個拿掉了 還刪掉全年60天的這個限制這樣就變成一個空白授權了啊現在你這位內政部長的前線啊你總統還大 這大概是差不多跟皇帝一樣大了報告張委員 這個是行政院在111年的時候通過的行政院在111年通過內政部只是按照行政院的會議通過做一下我們的實施辦法的修正 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
10181.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
10193.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
行政院在111年也就是三年前通過的我們只是按照這個預防執法在做我們的公告而已部長 你現在將心比心 你想現在談的是27億的 倍億的 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
10196.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
10205.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
替代役喔 如果家裡面有四個人 這個就是牽扯到一百萬人喔柏定來來 辛苦辛苦你現在 柏定你看這個修正本來是退役八年內嘛 對不對這個你明確把他拿掉了嘛 對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
10214.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
10228.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
所以是全部退役的隨時可能會被找跌這是第一對不對 這個明確嗎沒有啊 它是36歲以前36歲以前36嘛喔 那這個對 好 OK那你把8年這個拿掉這是第一個嘛 對不對沒有 就是36歲以前原來就是這樣規定的 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
10233.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
10255.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
本來限定是退役八年內嘛新的規定才說是八年內原來是沒有這個八年內的限制原來的話就是說三十六歲以內的話都可以召集那現在是以退役之後八年內所以是剛好相反事實上是緊縮的那刪掉前年六十天這個限制是有的 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
10256.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
10280.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
不是 是它原來的規定是30天必要時候得增加然後變成60天那現在的話是30天但是那個只能夠到60天的這個次數的話是上限是沒有是按照實際的狀況而且最重要的是它是指在勤務召集我們的備役有兩種召集一種是演訓召集 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
10283.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
10298.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
像是國防部的什麼點閱召集、教育召集這種召集那這個是勤務召集勤務召集是碰到了事變或者是暫時是有的關鍵就是現在是本來是60天是一個限制嘛對不對現在是刪掉 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
10299.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
10321.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
比60天多嗎原來是30天必要時到60天那現在是30天但是按照而且只限於勤務召集也就是說隨時必要的時候可以再增加嘛對不對那是發生事變的時候的勤務召集所以就是把這個界限拿掉了嘛60天已經很多了啊一年才360天你把60天拿掉 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
10324.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
10348.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
我們的召集分成兩種 一種叫演訓召集五天內 一年一次情務召集的話就是在事變或者是暫時的時候才會實施的你現在就是因為你認定你必要嘛所以我今天執行的重點是什麼你要把那個必要不要有灰色地帶 對不對我剛才一開始就講我們現在你如果是一個替代役你包括他的家人現在就會想啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
10349.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
10366.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
我本來規定清清楚楚的啊那你規定完之後你把連線也放寬了次數也放寬了日數也放寬了特別是我剛剛講你這60天有可能我就有受到影響啦第一我不用問啊一年360才65天你把60天都已經放寬了第二個我平常也要工作啊我有生活啊對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
10367.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
10392.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
我退役後,你隨時把我找來,你要不要付我薪水?這是不是就是一個影響?是不是這樣?所以我要求,我今天的質詢非常的明確第一個,你的必要,你要把人家找來你這個不要有灰色地帶,把它訂得非常的明確好不好?這是一個那第二個,你不要雙標啊你看一班兵是一年最多幾天?點招最多幾天? |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
10393.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
10408.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
那是國防部他按照 國防部他有教育召集 點閱召集 訓練召集他有五種召集 我們只有兩種召集所有的召集裡面最多有14天啊 你這邊60 你60還往上走必要的時候還往上走 你能不能把它 應該是減少吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
10410.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
10434.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
可不可以您提到的我要再強調一下這個是在緊急跟非常事變跟暫時的時候才會有這種30天或者是60天的這種平常的話在叫做演訓召集相當於後備軍人的教育召集點約召集等等它是在5天之內而且一年只有一次的時間對啊 給召集得那麼清楚你為什麼這麼模糊 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
10435.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
10456.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
還把連線把次數、倍次數都要拿掉你要把這些東西維持才對啊這樣才會平等嘛是不是是不是這樣我的要求很明確對不對而且合理吧對讓我們的替代役可以安心好不好你不要隨時他要被你調來生活會受影響工作會受影響好來你先請問我想補聽另外一個問題那部長這幾天你們今天要講租屋啦補聽租屋的這個補貼啊你看一下我們的這個提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
10464.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
10491.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
前陣子怎麼會出現什麼租屋補貼被刪了不過 柏定你有看過嗎這個提案啊 第一行這個提案是為了要討論你國土計畫法 延後六年要你提一個報告案可是刪減案一開始 刪減的時候就講了中間就開始說了 第一行第一行 柏定你念一下第七款第三項的項目怎麼樣你有看過排除這兩支嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
10494.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
10514.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
所以這筆錢 刪減的根本一開始就已經排除租屋補貼啊怎麼會有人造謠言說什麼租屋補貼受影響凍結什麼時候要解凍我們不知道啊我是不是詳細請我們署長來回應一下這是署長要處理的我剛剛剛才看你第一行 最後一行你看一下三個月內要跟立法院的內政委員會提出專案報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
10521.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
10531.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
立法院跟內政委員會提出專案報告是三個月內但是我們到目前為止在處理的部分是行政院附議的在立法院並沒有通過所以凍結了還是凍結啊凍結了還是繼續凍結啊凍結了還是繼續凍結啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
10541.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
10557.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
這個提案就是要你三個月內來報告啊啊你現在都不爭取這三個月現在三個月內這樣兩個事兩個事第一個清清楚楚提案裡面是排除所以沒有刪減到一毛錢的租屋補貸這件事好那你一定要要來凍結凍結還是一樣三個月來內政委員會做報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
10566.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
10584.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
如果我們沒有按照立法院的程序委員會去排任何解凍案的話那是我們內政部沒有辦法跟我們內政委員會做比較好的溝通但是重點在於立法院立法院的院會有沒有要求針對114年的所有煽動預算開始處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
10589.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
10611.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
解凍或者是處理其他的解除的部分我們都沒有收到這方面的資訊所以按照目前的狀況就是仍然在凍結的狀態那仍然在凍結的狀態對我們內政部影響最大的就是租金補貼的部分租金補貼第一個我剛剛講了已經這個是排除債務一毛錢都沒刪那你一定要硬咬說是凍結你包括凍結的錢算 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
10614.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
10632.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
除掉之後也足夠你負一年了這個沒有問題那你現在更重要的你應該主動去爭取啊你為什麼要等你剛剛的意思是什麼還沒開始這兩天的提案這個就是立法院的決議文這是委員會過了以後到了議員會又過了要你三個月內提一個報告出來啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
10633.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
10657.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
那你為什麼不提?你沒提你這甩鍋叫那請問一下所謂的三個月內是從日曆年的三個月還是立法院通過114年的行政院的預算的三個月如果是這樣的話上個禮拜行政院在總統簽署的部分的話就是公告114年行政院的預算對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
10657.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
10672.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
那我們是按照這樣的程序所以我還是一再非常的清楚我們邏輯上 法律上 行政規範上我們全部按照立法院在解除或是在處理預算的程序上來走這是我們完全尊重的否定你已經在那裡久了在法律院那你這位高雄企業副市長 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
10675.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
10694.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
跟這位行政院的秘書長你當然知道以前的網歷就是所謂三個月就是從年度就開始算啊因為以前的網路也沒有鋪一這件事也沒有到總統最後公告這回事那你盡快提出來啊那現在凍結的錢也足夠你去付這個房屋津貼趕快做啦好不好現在人民是要你們解決問題第一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
10696.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
10722.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
不要造謠,因為這裡面清楚的解釋,它已經被排除,這是第一個,被排除所以立法院沒有刪,出補貼證的一毛錢老實講,凍結的錢你把它算進去,你還是足夠今年一整年都可以用的好,第三個,第三個,你如果要趕快,你要趕快提出來一個解凍案,很快就可以通過保定,我問你一下,解凍案你以前當那麼久的立委有沒有,你舉一個例子給我聽,有沒有哪一個凍結案到後來沒有過的,有沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
10723.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
10747.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
有一個嗎有啊哪一個我可以匯後提供給你參考還相當多一個給我就好了除了我印象中除了賴清德當幹事長那一年公司的預算被凍結他到隔年解凍沒有啦立法委為什麼要你要凍結要嘛就把你砍掉來凍結凍結就希望你提出把解決方案嘛像這個凍結案本來要做什麼事情你有看這些提案嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
10748.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
10764.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
因為你的國土計劃法那時候沒有好好去溝通叫你溝通完提案出來如果委員你只要刪掉300萬的國土計劃法我沒意見但是你們民眾黨黨團所提的捅山跟捅洞就動到我們的租金補貼的200億 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
10767.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
10792.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
國土計畫你們也提了延期了所以事實上呢我們當然可以在這個地方跟委員好好來做報告這是我們的全責但是呢也請委員了解一下統棟跟統山是在立法院的表決通過的它的法定的這個效率比我們在內政委員會通過的任何解棟跟這個刪除的部分還要來得強謝謝委員的指教裡面怎麼會有你房屋這個房屋金補貼呢你房屋補貼的錢清清楚楚列在這裡啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
10793.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
10815.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
你什麼嗲嗲倒菜的好啦 最重要的啦第一個不只不要造謠 趕快提出解凍案 趕快通稿好 謝謝 文字都會說話 提案白紙黑字清清楚楚好 謝謝張其凱委員 本期在這邊做一下說明這幾個事情我們還是還原一下啦第一個這個解凍案不是立法院要求啦 這個應該是行政機關要提啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
10816.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
10836.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
你提了之後送到院會院會附委之後到委員會來做處理啦這第一個那第二個時間序的部分因為這一次特別嘛提了復一案嘛那復一案完之後其實真正能夠開始進行解凍程序其實從今天開始啦因為你總統公布完嘛但是問題是這樣嘛就其實如果早公布不去走復一程序其實搞不好現在我們已經討論解凍了啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
10837.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
10862.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
對不對好沒關係事情發生了就發生了好不好既然大家都為了國家的發展然後補裡面應該有很多的委屈但就盡快把它提出來盡快提出來我們就盡快來排就希望補裡面趕快來做溝通其實就是這樣子而已好不好我們就不要再針對這個事情吵架那很清楚不管是提案都規定三個月之內要處理嘛我剛剛也講就是說不管怎麼樣這會期一定要把它處理掉那既然處理掉就不會出現所謂11月以後租金補貼斷吹問題不會嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
10864.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
10872.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
因為原則上大家都同意 我目前還沒有聽到大家會反對解凍的就請這個國土組積極來做溝通 其實這樣就好了 好不好好 謝謝 休息五分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
10887.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
10888.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
他都不知道自己黨團有體研期 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
11222.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
11242.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
好 謝謝各位同仁 我們繼續開會下一位我們請邱志偉委員質詢好 沒關係 喝一口喝一口茶 沒問題的您一向非常準時的 所以沒問題我到經濟委員會質詢的時候 您當招委我也很準時好 請邱志偉委員 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
11249.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
11255.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
先主席有請這個內政部劉部長劉部長有請還有國土管理署吳署長吳署長有請部長好部長在您的報告裡面幾個問題請教如果要租屋市場透明化未來的經濟方向最主要還是要持續推動包租代管跟租金補貼嗎好這是重點那來問題來囉如果這個在野黨動三預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
11279.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
11287.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
那租金補貼能夠如期上路或者如期達成這個目標嗎這些包租代管的部分這個錢還夠不夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
11290.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
11314.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
報告委員我們在很多次的會議裡面都有提到了就是第一個我們當然是尊重現在最新的114年度的年度預算那這個年度預算剛公布所以呢我們還是希望說在山跟洞的部分呢山2.7億洞是11.47億是的沒錯那這租金補貼什麼時候會用完呢如果沒有解洞 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
11315.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
11341.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
我們按照目前就是來申請租金補貼的部分我們是希望說可以按照目前的狀態不要給它打折扣的話最快大概11月就會用盡就是說你沒有凍結沒有解凍的話11月份就沒有了對那如果它是不解凍那租金補貼就會受到影響受害者就是廣大的租屋群眾是的那另外財化法之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
11345.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
11362.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
你要中央釋出很多資源給這個地方那未來包租代管的部分要由地方政府去執行嗎是這樣子我們在111年以前就是有關社會住宅的興建那大部分都是分成中央跟地方有一定比例的分配 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
11362.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
11386.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
那後來因為中央會覺得說為了社宅跟居住正義很多這個經費都是由中央全額來支付那現在如果財化法按照原來要推動的時候我們就會下放也就是說幾乎大概是25%或28%的這個經費要由地方政府來支付目前是這樣而且很多地方大概已經不再繼續蓋所以你這個包租代管 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
11387.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
11407.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
因為中央蓋的多所以包租貸管的費用還是要中央處理會比較多對不對理論上會這樣子那你如果包租貸管的經費你如果被因為財政受傷的話你下放地方的時候你怎麼樣針對你中央蓋的這個這個社會住宅來處理這些包租貸管可能相對要減少我請署長來跟進來署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
11409.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
11432.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
好 我大概分幾個層次啦第一個大概就是租金補貼可能就回歸到110年以前就是中央跟地方各自負擔一定的戶數一定比例的戶數那你要讓所有的廣告事主知道問題出在哪裡然後第二個大概包括帶管的這一個服務費或相關的這個費用的一個分攤啦這個可能也會找地方政府就一起來協助做分攤那第三個就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
11435.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
11458.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
興建社宅的部分因為其實中央現在蓋的社宅的數量已經超過地方而且比例不斷的在拉高那如果才要把通過以後大概我們會希望地方政府尤其是新開發區新開發區就以後大概統一由地方政府來負擔然後分的包租貸款的費用又多中央蓋的社宅多那包租貸款的經費又全部下放地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
11459.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
11483.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
這變成說一個好的政策經過扭曲之後一個服務國立民的政策經過扭曲之後不當煽動之後有可能變成禍國殃民受到傷害是全國租屋族的老百姓這些租屋族相對都是在經濟上相對是比較弱勢所以需要租金補貼嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
11484.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
11506.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
那是不是雪上加霜呢雪上加霜結果就是禍國殃民嘛我很遺憾我們到時候就是要求地方政府也要負起一些責任所以到時候費用的分攤就是雙方還要再重新談那大概我們至少會按照比例去減少的部分我們就會要求地方政府來自行負擔 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
11507.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
11523.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
那另外前瞻建設的預算沒有過地方政府這些要怎麼應應地方政府有沒有錢那些有沒有相關的配套方案目前前瞻如果沒有審查的話其實大概道路的部分大概是衝擊最大他就讓你沒有辦法去做事情嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
11524.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
11548.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
包含去年核定現在在再建工程當中的很可能就會停止路不會自己開天上不會掉下一條路一定要中央地方協力合作中央要補貼大部分預算對不對你現在前段沒有過路開不了啦影響是誰影響是所有的國人同胞另外因為我時間關係北高雄地方建設發展有三條道路我已經看了五六次 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].start |
11549.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].end |
11573.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].text |
包括湖內區東方路 連接正義社區 包括岡山區高29菜寮路包括紫關區中正路 連接遠港路打工工程這三項我想這個署長你也很清楚 我希望部長能夠支持部長 了解我想部長能夠支持我當然支持啊 但是要有經費啊這個經費有啦 我不曉得有沒有啦這個我了解目前經費 這個還可以質疑一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].start |
11576.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].end |
11595.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].text |
這個部分我想我們來跟市府商量因為這生活圈的部分大概都是要靠滾動檢討那所以像這裡面還有一個是八到九米那大概就要符合這一個打通瓶頸的這個路段市政府是把他排序的前幾名所以這就代表他優先性跟急迫性跟必要性還請署長跟部長解釋 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].start |
11597.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].end |
11625.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].text |
另外144號道路也拜託這個進度能不能加快144號是協定區啊另外的重要交通道要到那因為十幾年都沒有辦法打通所以這部分是不是私立的評點也能夠儘速儘速來進行這個我們會請公園署這邊來加速 儘快來開闢部長您能不能現在的瓶頸就是我們公園署在3月27號召開委員會那我會請這個公園署按照我們地方上的需求呢儘快讓他完成這樣子的會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].start |
11626.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].end |
11645.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].text |
謝謝部長 謝謝署長好 謝謝邱志偉委員下一位我們請楊瓊英委員質詢謝謝主席 邀請部長有部長有請楊委員好 部長好等一下電腦還沒出來沒有出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].start |
11653.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].end |
11667.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].text |
我們來討論租賃市場透明化的議題台灣房屋高價許多人都要依靠租賃的方式來生活租賃市場都以個人出租的形態為主 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].start |
11668.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].end |
11688.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].text |
而房東隱匿收入或者是租屋事實等,也就是租屋的黑市這個現象一直存在哪怕不僅影響到補貼資源的一個效果也對政府在掌控整個資訊以及政策管理會有嚴重的影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].start |
11689.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].end |
11704.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].text |
租屋民眾的權益就會深深受害所以本席在這邊請教部長去年有民團及我們立委提出不只是包租也要納入貸款將補貼等政府已經掌控的租屋的資訊都納入 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].start |
11706.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].end |
11724.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].text |
租屋實價登錄那請教部長您對於這個論點的看法謝謝委員的關心在去年開始我們內政部已經有先後兩次公布所謂的這個行政區裡面的這個租金的部分那這個其實已經有含掛了我們現在租屋市場規模的六成 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].start |
11725.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].end |
11740.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].text |
那其他的事成呢其實他有些困擾是因為民法上面的這個個資的部分或者是說因為有短期租約的影響所以呢對於租金是不是有如實來登錄所謂的實價登錄是如實來登錄是房東也好或是租客也好都會有這個困難所以我們在公權力行政上面的不容易去處理這一塊那但是我們還會有其他的經濟措施譬如說我們還是一樣每一年會公佈兩次 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].start |
11754.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].end |
11780.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].text |
這樣子只要是公權力可以處理的包括社宅或是包括租金補貼的部分慢慢都會把這個往這方面精進那同時我們對於這個包租代管業者啊如果他能夠掌握到這方面資訊的話希望他能夠回饋讓我們在做統計上面最好的分工那如果我們所有的這樣子的一個租金補貼可以對外公佈的話那表示在那一區那個生活圈有那個道路上面會有定毛的效果 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].start |
11781.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].end |
11793.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].text |
讓很多想要成豬的尤其是弱勢的經濟的這個租客族群呢可以知道說其實我要的房型差不多就是這樣子的一個租金價格然後不會上當跟受騙這是我們現在主要的方向這個也就是特別我們要勉勵啊這個精進的方案繼續加油 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].start |
11799.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].end |
11814.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].text |
因為我們一定要讓我們這些青年孩子也好或者是比較弱勢的朋友他都能夠得到一個居住正義的安全性這是非常重要 繼續加油接下來本席跟你討論租屋囤房討漏稅的問題我們知道財政部查核 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].start |
11819.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].end |
11837.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].text |
五戶以上囤房的包租工有超過五成是逃落稅租屋市場經濟地下化還是很嚴重所以因此針對於租屋主的權益居住正義嚴重的來受損所以本席要請教部長我們除了尋覓機制鼓勵合法房東來申報財政部 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].start |
11846.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].end |
11861.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].text |
擴大的來稽查之外那我們還有什麼精進的方案配套呢能夠減少這樣類似的問題那同時是否你支持修法來有一個有所本的一個方案呢請教 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].start |
11862.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].end |
11880.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].text |
我是不是先請財政部的同仁來回答一下您的部分他們是查緝的部分跟委員報告針對房東的部分我們鼓勵房東參與這個社會住宅或是公益出租人來享受我們的租稅結面然後對於這個陰森報然後有逃漏稅的房東我們會加強查緝那財政部近幾年都有加強查緝這個個人房東的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].start |
11886.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].end |
11907.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].text |
好謝謝財政部的回答因為財政部你的角色就是查緝跟鼓勵那請教部長那但是我們現在這麼做目前的樣態是如此那我們要怎麼樣精進因為它還是存在的這個問題請說明我是不是先請我們市長跟您回應一下我再來做政策上面的 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].start |
11908.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].end |
11936.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].text |
公務員報告一下在這個部分的話其實我們的部分是用鼓勵的方式因為第一個部分包含到社會住宅或是我們租金補貼的愛心房對 這個非常重要社會住宅跟你們補貼的這個項目還有包含到我們一般的包租代管其實我們現行的規定都有相關的一個地價稅所得稅還有房屋稅的優惠那我們鼓勵房東透過這些稅優也參加我們那個公益出租人的行列 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].start |
11936.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].end |
11942.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].text |
謝謝市長你的說明 部長剛剛財政部跟您的市長所說明目前他們有動作但是還是呈現這樣的問題我們要怎麼樣去精進請教部長謝謝委員的關心我想我們現在目前在處理的部分確實沒有辦法滿足所有的租客他們所要的這個資訊所以我們現在是用鼓勵跟引導的方式鼓勵跟引導的方式如果有任何違反 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].start |
11965.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].end |
11979.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].text |
其實可以看得出來財政部也好或是內政部也有一定的懲罰措施可是我們要確定的一點就是說目前尤其是這個六都六都裡面這個租屋市場是以房東為主 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].start |
11980.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].end |
11984.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].text |
如果他認為說我們採取比較大的重罰然後減少這個租屋市場的釋出的話反而會租金會上漲這個他是一個不平衡的狀態那我們為了要穩健的方式的話就盡量讓他能夠朝著能夠告訴我們怎麼租金上面的這個不管是處理的方面盡量透明化那同時我們也要找包 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].start |
12004.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].end |
12018.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].text |
您所謂的透明化這個就是重點我們要怎麼樣去協助這一些的租屋者我相信這也是你的職責那精進的方案你再去精進最後一個議題我們來討論本席非常非常的強調看到有這個數字出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].start |
12024.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].end |
12047.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].text |
台灣已成為過勞之島 七天假何時要還給勞工部長 台灣在2023年的時候我們的年總工時已經達到2000年20小時成為全球主要國家中的第五高也是在亞洲國家中的第二高 僅次於新加坡那近三年我們的工時也不斷地在增加台灣已經成為過勞之島 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].start |
12049.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].end |
12069.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].text |
減少工時的有效方法就是把過去砍的七天假還給勞工那這一次本席也有提案所以部長您上週有回答說反對修法你的理由是說稱社會尚無共識不宜倉促立法那現在您的立場呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].start |
12071.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].end |
12088.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].text |
報告委員我想這樣子太籠統了第一個就是說內政部現在只有一個紀念日跟節日的一個實施辦法它不是一個法律案那你要變成一個法律案的話我知道我們現在委員大概有27種提案但是要放假的日數是高達31天 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].start |
12090.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].end |
12104.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].text |
那所以變成是沒有共識不是社會沒有共識那我們也都知道說現在有一些勞動的朋友會覺得說他現在的工時過長但是工時過長的解決放在假日的處理辦法是不是一個好的辦法 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].start |
12105.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].end |
12126.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].text |
因為我上次有提過你把它放在紀念日跟假日的時事辦變成把它提高變成法律未接的時候譬如說我們去年是一百一十五天明年是一百一十六天的放假日但是後年如果變成一百一十七天那你法律案要不要跟著修正就是說我勞動節放假或者是說我教師節放假或者是我這個客家的這個天川日放假或者是原住民的歲時紀一放假把它固定化下來的話那下一次 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].start |
12136.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].end |
12155.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].text |
如果你放假天數會增加或減少的時候你的法律就要跟著再修正那修正送到立法院裡面是一個比較冗長的程序因為立法委員除了委員會還有院會要表達所以我的意思就是說我們不要把放假日與否要增加與否放到我們的假日跟紀念日這兩個 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].start |
12157.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].end |
12164.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].text |
這個名詞裡面去處理就是說我到底全部總工時要多少回歸到跟勞動基準法相關那邊來討論我們不會反對而且是尊重勞動部的意見還好你最後說了我們不會反對因為勞動部長洪森漢他認為有討論的空間行政總處的人事長呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].start |
12180.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].end |
12198.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].text |
蘇俊隆先生也說他不反對勞動節變全國的放假日他不反對那我要請教喔你也擔任過立法委員你剛才講的也非常的清楚喔所以為什麼內閣的態度部委首長是不一致我要把這個功課給你 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].start |
12199.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].end |
12214.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].text |
我也希望我們這個惡民能夠好好的去改善這非常的重要我們也讓社會大眾來公允那我們也希望在立法院可以討論出一個方向也希望得到你的支持讓我們這一切的修法能夠通過讓我們台灣是全世界第五個過勞的國家我們把這個惡民抹殺掉 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].start |
12225.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].end |
12236.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].text |
好 謝謝楊瓊英委員的諮詢下一位我們請鄭天才委員諮詢鄭天才委員 鄭天才委員不在下一位我們請鄭振淺委員諮詢鄭振淺委員 鄭振淺委員不在下一位我們請徐信委員諮詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].start |
12246.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].end |
12272.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].text |
好 謝謝主席 請劉部長先劉部長有請好 部長我們今天是要談租賃市場透明化的現況與展望所以我們相信今天的議題可以說是不單純是租屋市場的管理它是一場關於青年生存的 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].start |
12274.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].end |
12293.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].text |
這個生存空間的危機也是政府制度誠信的壓力更是社會公平正義的最後一道防線那既然我們要談的是這個透明化所以本席想請教你目前全國租用戶數你們估計大約是多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].start |
12295.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].end |
12307.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].text |
報告委員現在我們是用推估的我們用這個行政院的主計總署還有教育部的部分推估大概潛在的租屋市場規模大概是110.5萬戶對這個是109年的數據 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].start |
12312.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].end |
12336.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].text |
因為他那個10年才報導一次所以我們政府治理要不要改進但是教育部是111學年度好 111 教育部111 對所以這一塊就是本席在今天這個議題要特別提出來就是說我們的政府治理要不要與時俱進109年那時候定說好我們每10年一次 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].start |
12336.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].end |
12349.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].text |
可是這個整個的科技還有各方面的這個社會的需求跟進步您認為還是十年一次嗎這個我們當然是要尊重主計總署主計總署 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].start |
12353.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].end |
12370.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].text |
我地政司這邊報告一下我們現在剛剛委員引用到了就是行政院主計總署每10年會做一次人口及住宅的一個普查那因為10年的期間有點過長所以在中間的5年我們國土署也會去做相關的一個住宅的一個調查你們怎麼調查 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].start |
12373.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].end |
12395.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].text |
好 國土署請你們是怎麼調查的報告因為我們大概都會引用這個因為他那個主席總書大致上會有一個慣性他大概會有一萬多戶的這個部分那我們大致上也會去參照他那個戶數的一個範圍去做類似因為這樣大家的數據比較不會失真對所以我們希望政府啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].start |
12395.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].end |
12420.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].text |
我們中央這邊要來整合 主計總署也有教育部也有 國土署也有所以我不知道部長這是不是應該內政部總要有一個整合單位我們好像每一次質詢現在民眾關心的問題都不是單一部會的問題那內政部還是哪一個單位應該要整合那你怎麼樣拿到真正的這個就至少我們推估的要比較確切嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].start |
12422.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].end |
12429.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].text |
那也就是說你敢不敢面對我們這制度上的黑數和這個破洞 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].start |
12430.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].end |
12452.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].text |
那所以現在你說大概預計110萬戶嘛現在剛剛部長說但我們看媒體報導民間估計有200萬戶所以這個公說公有理婆說婆有理那再加上我們的數據又是過時的所以這一塊本席在這裡因為時間也不多這個議題我們希望你們是不是可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].start |
12453.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].end |
12481.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].text |
在會後有一些研擬你們去評估嘛應該多久能夠要做一個了解那是不是再回覆給我這樣可以嗎你們要掌握嘛掌握整個租屋市場的情況好不好因為到現在都沒有辦法知道因為民間的租賃大概長租短租那有的商辦租那有的是廠辦租其實大概我們是很難去 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].start |
12482.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].end |
12500.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].text |
因為有的重尤其是短租型的你要回覆我那你那個長租短租那本來一個數據出來它不可能是精準的嘛它的估計一定包含都有這些嘛好不好好那再來就是說今天當然很多委員一定都會談我們既然要透明化有很多資訊的 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].start |
12502.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].end |
12520.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].text |
揭露各方面民眾所關心的不只是租金 其實有一項 本席想請教很多民眾反應就是說那個凶宅資訊的揭露 民眾很在意你們這一塊 我有看到內政部 韓市好像說就是以這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].start |
12522.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].end |
12548.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].text |
你們定義是屋內非自然死亡那但是呢發生在房屋的專有部分還有在賣方持有房屋產權期間發生那但是就是說今天他如果他是這一棟大樓或某一戶的這個租戶他到樓上跳樓下來這個是不在不在揭露的裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].start |
12550.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].end |
12579.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].text |
因為民眾蠻在意的很多年輕人說我看到價格低我就去租了結果後來想一想我了解一下這附近是不是情況如何結果發現原來他租的那一棟就是凶宅所以這個是一個然後再來就是你們說賣方持有房屋產權期間發生所以只要一轉手這個是前一個持有者的時候發生的所以後一個持有者他就不用揭露了 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].start |
12580.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].end |
12609.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].text |
這一塊這種透明化的部分有關凶宅這一塊是不是也可以因為民眾都很在意嘛這一塊可不可以向委員報告一下因為有關於凶宅就非自然死亡的部分現在在我們的一個其實城屋在買賣的說明書必須揭露這個部分那我現在說的是租屋租屋沒有租屋沒有那你覺得需不需要那這個部分你們覺得需不需要 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].start |
12610.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].end |
12631.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].text |
所以你們目前沒有 都沒有 只有買賣的時候不過那個一般仲介的部分的話在做一個居間的一個媒介的時候有關於這個相關的訊息的部分他們一般也會去做一個產調的部分去告訴民眾但是因為政府 就沒有強制那他就不會受重視 就絕對沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].start |
12633.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].end |
12658.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].text |
我更新一下租屋的部分也要強制也要去揭露這個訊息所以我才跟你探討說你強制了可是你的規定好像也不盡然完善我剛剛特別舉例他住五樓可是他到頂樓假設頂樓跳下去或在頂樓怎麼了其實是不會揭露的你租屋的規範是不是跟房屋買賣一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].start |
12659.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].end |
12680.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].text |
現在規定是一樣因為都必須要揭露所以我們這不管租屋或買賣這一塊有沒有可能研擬也麻煩會後給我這個回覆好不好就是這一塊你們研擬一下嘛因為民眾很關心我們才會接到大家的反應好那再來就是我請教部長那個我們現在好像這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].start |
12685.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].end |
12711.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].text |
整個AI時代來臨像我們的這個既然要透明化而且這個也是數據有沒有在考已經有沒有在規劃未來AI時代來臨是不是有導入AI那來提高讓民眾能夠提供他好的租屋的資訊那也能夠提高行政效率甚至對我們行政我們統計處有這樣的考量 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].start |
12712.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].end |
12733.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].text |
有這樣的考量目前的情況如何因為我們列了一個這個五年的內政智慧領航計劃那準備利用AI的技術在比如說對租屋的資料的品質的提升還有他的租屋資料的解釋還有租屋資料的政策的應用的上面 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].start |
12735.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].end |
12751.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].text |
那這個詳細內容我們大概可以理解那既然有這樣的話AI最重要就是它要很多的數據你沒有足夠的數據所以一樣這個資訊不夠透明你資訊不足你就沒有辦法有給民眾很好的這個資訊的品質嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].start |
12754.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].end |
12778.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].text |
所以這個部分還是拉到我們很多的資訊你必須要想辦法剛剛我們講的你黑洞數太多了那你還是用在現有的裡面那他還不能反映現有的市場是我們會利用AI的技術然後利用跨領域的資料也就是說譬如說這個計畫什麼時候要實施啊還是在規劃階段已經抱怨了115年到119年 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].start |
12782.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].end |
12805.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].text |
115到119的這五年那最後租屋補貼這一塊你們有訂這個補貼的一個價格跟它的不同級數那本席要反映的是目前好像就是台北台北它在第一級的它補貼最多 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].start |
12807.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].end |
12836.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].text |
就是8000、5000、3000其他就是5000、4000、2400那本席在這裡只是提說反映現在市場的情況我想那個署長應該知道竹北的房價好像直逼台北而且很可怕那它的租屋也是它的包括地段各方面所以這個東西你們多久會整個再審核一次或是再評估一次因為我們大概每年都會去檢查它那個所得中位數 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].start |
12838.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].end |
12851.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].text |
所得中位數你應該到竹北市全國最高的是關鍵那一個數據啦第二個當然就是說因為你的所得中位數的狀態下那大概又會跟那個房屋的持有率這一些大概都會一搭配其實有時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].start |
12852.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].end |
12872.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].text |
或許會有時候就沒有辦法精準到只有那一個區像你現在狀態是竹北區你們是用縣市對不對對因為是用縣市那就被其他鄉鎮縣市因為你只有基本上只有竹北跟竹東是比較高其他大概相對就拉下去了所以那一塊有時候會看不太出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].start |
12872.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].end |
12898.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].text |
因為應該講竹北跟新竹市它的房價不輸給台北是我想您很瞭解所以這一塊還是得看一下因為在竹北市中屋的年輕人非常非常多新竹市也是我們是反映區域的情況好 謝謝好 謝謝徐欣盈委員下一位我們請蔡易宇委員質詢蔡易宇委員蔡易宇委員不在下一位我們請黃建豪委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].start |
12911.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].end |
12937.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].text |
好謝謝主席主席我們請內政部劉部長劉部長有請官委員好部長好部長我是外委的所以時間比較有限但是我還是要跟部長來關心一下我們這個全國社會住宅新辦的進度我想說每年的過去總之我都有關心但是今年總之我時間不夠就沒有問到所以剛好今天內政部有來我也跟部長請教一下去年2024年113年的2月底的 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].start |
12940.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].end |
12957.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].text |
達成數中央4672的地方18257基本上這個數字那過了一年之後到今年中央的社宅完工數是4990那地方是28791我想這個數字很明顯可以看到這個中央在新辦社宅的數字上大概只增加了好大約300戶 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].start |
12958.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].end |
12975.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].text |
那地方政府興建的社宅大概增加了一萬戶當然從整個國家的角度來講不分中央地方大家都是為了民眾在蓋這個社宅希望大家能夠達到居住正義的目標但是我想請教一下部長到底是什麼原因讓這個中央蓋的比例到了進度這麼慢 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].start |
12977.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].end |
12992.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].text |
因為原來在設宅第一期的時候就是希望以地方為主中央給財務的補貼但是我們從108年大概就觀察到一個地方興建的速度已經放緩了就開工發包的數量已經放緩了而且放緩的速度很快 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].start |
12993.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].end |
13017.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].text |
所以中央才決定自己進場來興建所以我們大致上從109年開始去辦發包那所以如果照正常我們一般大樓大概是4年左右的一個規劃興建4到5年的規劃興建的話那中央的部分大概會在今年開始有比較大幅度的一個完工的數據今年大概會有5700戶左右明年大概還會再增加 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].start |
13018.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].end |
13034.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].text |
大概一萬一千戶所以大概中央會從今年開始大概會每年連續性的這個數量會比較大幅的成長好署長謝謝因為這個按照過去內政部在第一階段新辦這個涉宰的投入的狀況來講當時啦一戶的成本大約是在486萬我們概算500萬好了是 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].start |
13038.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].end |
13051.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].text |
那現在中央加地方大概完成大概9萬戶左右所以我們整個國家目前大概投入大概4千多億在蓋所謂的社宅這是目前的狀況那我要請教部長或請教署長的問題是說那我們終究 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].start |
13053.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].end |
13073.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].text |
目標數到底要蓋多少社宅因為我想包含總統在承諾說要百萬社宅等等但現在很多事又說要報住債管跟租金補貼那我們先不討論這些事情我們就社宅本身來討論的話內政部有沒有到底有設定目標到底我國要多少的社會住宅存量才叫做標準有沒有算過嗎根本報告啦因為我們應該用這個方式比較就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].start |
13077.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].end |
13100.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].text |
我們為什麼會淨出這個25萬戶的一個比例那25萬戶其實延長來講它的比重大概最高也只到2.5%那2.5%這樣在這個全世界的社宅的存量裡面我們只能算是比較中低標的一個標準但是我想25萬戶就可能這幾年包含中央跟地方的量能 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].start |
13101.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].end |
13116.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].text |
就必須要努力去衝刺這樣的一個目標當然未來我們期待直接興建的部分能夠再繼續拉高蘇財我們討論一個數字我們看數字這個下一號到底台灣需要多少社宅剛剛蘇財你講25萬或25萬或是依據住宅法第四條規範的經濟或社會弱勢吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].start |
13118.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].end |
13129.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].text |
不是是25萬戶是大概以我們所謂的這個2.5%就是說我們未來如果估計因為現在的小戶化越來越高啦那所以我們估計大概最高台灣可能會到1000萬戶的這個家戶那以1000萬戶的話25萬戶就是一個2.5的一個標準 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].start |
13135.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].end |
13157.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].text |
那所以是用這樣的概念去算 無打無撞反正雙方的計算標準不一樣結果出來的數字差不多啦就是說你用這個一千萬戶的標準來算是二十五萬戶那如果我是用這個住宅法第四條規範的這個群體算出來的人口數跟戶數算出來也差不多二十五萬戶那我意思是說因為我們社宅它本身條件上它優先要保障的 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].start |
13158.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].end |
13183.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].text |
當然就是所謂的經濟或社會弱勢者那如果你真的只蓋25萬戶我就會產生一個嚴重的社會後果就大家會說標線化的問題啦所以我們當然希望不能只有25萬戶當然是在我的理論裡面所以我才說反推回來如果按照所謂的四成提供給弱勢團體六成提供給當地就業者的比例合理的數字應該是要來到至少60萬戶才能夠符合這個整個國家的這個狀態嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].start |
13184.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].end |
13211.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].text |
所以我不知道在這樣子60萬以60萬為目標的情況下有可能內政部有可能達成嗎那如果有可能會預計要幾年來達成應該跟委員報告啦因為直接興建是逐年逐年在補但是其實為什麼我們在對待這些社會弱勢或者是他要靠租金補貼跟包租貸款因為他們相對有時候他的移動性是比較小的所以我不太可能就是說我蓋了一個然後一定要強迫他移過去我想 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].start |
13212.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].end |
13227.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].text |
這就是為什麼要包租貸款跟租金補貼其實包租貸款跟租金補貼弱勢戶的比例也非常高其實也是來自於雙方互相搭配來協助他們我想日後續才會隨著每一階段我們提供的社宅的量 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].start |
13227.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].end |
13240.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].text |
逐漸逐漸把它填補起來這是我們一定還是要努力的目標好 蘇長謝謝你因為我現在這樣後面有問題我都算是有解答因為是很想知道說到底今年400億的這個住宅基金裡面有300億只有100億拿去蓋那300億去做所謂的 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].start |
13243.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].end |
13271.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].text |
租金補貼我覺得這個感覺起來比例有點失衡但如果說你們的這個政策立場是希望說這300億租金補貼裡面有很多是所謂的經濟或社會弱勢這樣的說法我想這個本席是能夠接受但是我們期待說如果要還是回到這數字如果今天還要達到這個60萬戶當然這60萬戶當然是要平均分配在很多的可能這個人口密集區也好或者是說交通便利的捷運或這個鐵路的地區也好 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].start |
13272.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].end |
13289.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].text |
如果能够达到60万户我想对于现在这个房价和对真正的居住真正的达成好因为我时间到了我最后再讲一句因为这个两一个月前的我刚好去新加坡那大家都知道新加坡的主政策做得非常非常的好他们多数的国民他的房价很高私有住宅房价很高 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].start |
13289.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].end |
13301.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].text |
但是多數的國民他是受到保障就是說我多數國民我買得起或是我住得起一般的房子很多追求老宅他們土地國有化的制度對啊我想這個要討論一下就是說我要跟組長或跟部長來請教就是說當然後續可能再討論時間到了就是說我們有這麼多其實我們還是有非常多的 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].start |
13309.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].end |
13334.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].text |
國有土地或國營事業的國有土地其實是應該是能夠釋出來做相關的工作我們當然期待說我還是以希望以60萬為目標啦我們希望能夠達成這件事情就是土地如果按照目前來講的話其實不管是財政部也好或是各國營事業也好其實有非常多的土地是在精華區我講個我就舉個例子就好我上兩週前一個月前我大概有在樓下經濟委會質詢過一件事情就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].start |
13335.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].end |
13356.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].text |
我台中市區捷運站旁邊中青文興路口的邊邊精華地帶的住山住宅區居然要拿去蓋光電板我說這就非常浪費啊這個是很荒謬的事情如果這件事情能夠提供電視部能夠來爭取來提供做社會住宅我想這對區分配或對居住這一點來講就是比較正向的努力也謝謝委員啦這麼漂亮的這麼好的地點 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].start |
13358.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].end |
13385.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].text |
你去蓋光電板要蓋其實我們也是希望地方政府也要努力跟進啦畢竟現在是中央衝的比較快那我們希望地方政府尤其未來有勢力重劃去亂徵收區的這個土地要優先釋出來未來的公有地要優先釋出來蓋社會住宅才能真正引入人口解決地方民眾租屋的需求啦都要一起努力好 謝謝署長 謝謝部長好 謝謝黃建豪委員下一位我們請黃珊珊委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].start |
13393.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].end |
13402.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].text |
徐主席我請你劉部長劉部長有請還有副會員還有副稅署副稅署李立新副署長有請 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].start |
13406.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].end |
13433.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].text |
好兩位好我想部長今天大家都非常關心所謂的住宅政策尤其是租屋租屋市場裡面有很嚴重的問題就是我們現在的房客他有三大痛苦第一個痛苦是沒辦法入戶口第二個是沒有辦法申請租金補貼雖然法律上可以保障他不用經過房東同意第三個痛苦就是他沒有辦法去申報所謂的 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].start |
13435.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].end |
13461.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].text |
列舉扣除了部長今天是很多的自由住宅房屋稅2.0必須要房東要設戶籍的最後一天接下去有非常非常多的房東因為他可能要有特殊的希望稅負可以減少所以他會把戶口簽到可能空出來但是實際上租給人家的這些房屋裡面內政部有沒有什麼對策 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].start |
13465.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].end |
13488.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].text |
像委員報告我們剛剛提到的第一個部分不能報戶口第二個不能申請租金補貼的部分那我們現在在租賃定型化契約裡面都規定所以房客各位啊房客就是因為礙於不想搬家不想被趕走他也不會去檢舉所以你這個方法有跟沒有一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].start |
13489.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].end |
13508.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].text |
所以部長我想兩件事啦第一件事情簽戶口這件事情大概目前也沒什麼解足信補貼我們已經不需要相關的房東同意了第三個就是扣除了的列舉這個部分從相關的規範裡面看得出來有兩成的人不知道有五成的人不敢報 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].start |
13510.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].end |
13538.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].text |
其實你有這麼多的規定他為什麼還是不敢報因為他不想得罪他的房東就這麼簡單所以部長你認為我們給了這麼多為什麼還是會有黑市為什麼這個黑市沒有辦法往前走其實我們給了他很多的稅服優惠其實我們給了他租金補貼甚至他可以去把他的地價稅房屋稅甚至他的中所稅成為公益出租人都可以優惠你認為他們為什麼還是不願意來當公益出租人 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].start |
13543.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].end |
13558.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].text |
向委員報告一下有關於戶籍的部分的話我要問你說他為什麼還是不願意來當公益出租人嗎應該還是我們知道大概普遍房東還是care稅的問題為什麼因為稅嘛講對了好部長還有建復稅署在現場我們給他的房屋稅優惠地價稅優惠中鎖稅的優惠都不足以讓他有誘因來成為公益出租人原因是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].start |
13567.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].end |
13585.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].text |
是因為他在將來交易房屋的時候的那個稅額才是真正他所care的第一個叫做房地合一稅房地合一稅他必須要在交易前六年沒有出租的行為另外一個是土地增值稅一生一次的自用住宅優惠他要在出售一年前沒有出租 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].start |
13586.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].end |
13601.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].text |
包括公益出租第三還有一生一物的出售前五年沒有提供營業使用或出租這兩個稅制是把所有的房東卡在那邊他不願意來成為公益出租人不願意讓他的房客去申請租金補貼最大的問題負稅署是吧因為我曾經出租過所以我交易的時候就喪失了所謂交易稅的優惠這才是大錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].start |
13613.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].end |
13636.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].text |
今天內政部如果真的要處理租屋黑市要處理租屋黑市的就是找財政部好好討論一下今天我們真的做了公益出租人我們在他交易的時候他也有一定的優惠現在為止沒有耶他到了公益出租人他沒有任何交易上的好處他為什麼要來當公益出租人部長你了解我的意思嗎我了解是 你要不要在麥克風前面講 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].start |
13637.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].end |
13652.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].text |
但是委員所垂詢的部分所以您社會部長你要跟財政部來好好商量這件事您大致上就是在強調有關於在稅賦上面對於公益出租人並沒有任何好處那我們內政部要跟財政部來多做協調 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].start |
13653.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].end |
13677.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].text |
讓他知道說當公益出租人他有這樣的好處你要管的是國內的住宅市場但是稅賦沒有辦法達到剛剛講的一些方式就不會有人理你的住宅政策你永遠解決不了租屋黑市部長這才是我的問題如果內政不是住宅法的主管機關租屋黑市是你的任務稅賦他們是政策的工具而已 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].start |
13678.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].end |
13696.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].text |
目標是我們要讓租屋黑市真正能夠揭開來它讓所有的房東都願意來當中醫出租人今天的問題是有一個數字很有趣租金補貼121年度核定了27萬件他真正跑去申請剛剛講的房屋稅地價稅優惠的人只有11萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].start |
13698.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].end |
13725.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].text |
也就是說租金補貼我們付了27萬戶結果只有11萬戶的人願意告訴政府說我是公益出租人我來減免我的房屋稅跟地價稅有一半以上的人連報都不願意報這才是問題我們的確我們已經不拿來查所得稅了他還是不願意報今天內政部要做的事財政部如果房地合一稅跟土地增值稅沒有處理的話我相信這個屋主會是永遠沒有辦法解決 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].start |
13726.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].end |
13734.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].text |
部長你們跟財政部是不是要開始至少現在從現在起要對租屋黑市的處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].start |
13736.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].end |
13756.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].text |
往前進一步報告委員其實我們有商量過有協調過這個部分但是財政部的立場跟內政部不太一樣是財政部永遠都不願意減稅所以你們的問題是你們要請院長出來變成你們的政策如果假設一個國家的政策兩個是相互矛盾的你這個政策永遠推不動 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].start |
13758.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].end |
13782.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].text |
矛盾的政策是永遠推不動的所以部長我希望一個月內告訴我們你們做了哪些努力第二個財政部永遠不願意減稅我相信但是很簡單你如果有公益出租人大家願意來做我相信中華民國是可以朝向朱惠勢可以慢慢的降稅委員不好意思那個一個月可能時間有點短可不可以讓我們多一點的時間來跟財政部這邊來做一個反應和討論那就兩個月 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].start |
13786.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].end |
13813.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].text |
报告委员那个五月的时候是报税期那你如果现在对如果你现在匆忙说要做任何决定的话可能对财政部也不是那么完全不容易啦就是不管怎样要开始做我们在尽量如果租屋院是这么久了都用这么多方法都没有用你要去追根究底最后的问题终于出租人在在中华民国政府的眼睛中到底是什么好吗 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].start |
13814.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].end |
13839.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].text |
兩個月給我一個初步的答案我沒有一定要你馬上有答案但是你至少要開始做三個月啦我沒有跟你那個argue這個時間我剛剛提到了就是說因為五月是報稅的這個熱季啊好三個月讓他能夠這兩個稅額必須要有一個檢查稅部馬上在五月六月做一個很大的更動的話對報稅人也是不是很公平你沒有要現在做啊至少開始做好嗎三個月內我希望可以給本席一個完美的答覆好謝謝主席謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].start |
13845.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].end |
13851.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].text |
好 謝謝黃珊珊委員的諮詢下一個我們請羅明財委員羅明財委員 羅明財委員不在下一個我們請鍾嘉斌委員諮詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].start |
13867.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].end |
13876.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].text |
謝謝主席 在黨委員先進列席的政務機關事長官員會長工作夥伴媒體記者女士先生有請內政部劉部長 地政司林司長還有國土署的吳署長劉部長 林司長 吳署長有請 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].start |
13879.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].end |
13890.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].text |
中委員好部長好 署長好 市長好我們比較輕鬆的補充是我們行政院團隊裡面三聲帶朱祁鈴我演繹不來 演繹不來我請教一下 他們那時候我聽到老闆在說手腳跟脖子結這是什麼意思 你知道嗎手腳跟脖子結 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].start |
13898.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].end |
13916.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].text |
我真的不知道 拜託補議員跟我說首先就是屬於老一輩在日治時代呢都市居民的疏散那暴擊呢就是轟炸的意思啦好 那我想這個是一個比較緩和氣氛來 下一個部長呢在不久前來到我們屏東江華義那時候我們的興建 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].start |
13917.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].end |
13942.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].text |
部立屏東醫院的醫療大樓原來是地下一層 地上七層後來院長 蘇院長支持改成地下三層 地上十二層部長也特別強調了這一點那是什麼原因 保定 部長第一個當然是要這個造福我們在屏東地區的廣大的這個居民讓他在醫療品質上面可以提升那非常謝謝我們的蘇前院長的幫忙那另外一個就是我們希望能夠結合那個衛福部的一個韌性醫療計畫裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].start |
13946.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].end |
13971.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].text |
把這個地下三層樓的部分呢變成是一個符合現代功能而且有具有戰備功能的一個災害規劃的院區就是平時是當停車場然後有緊急災難的時候會變成手術跟病房或者是大規模譬如說我們有COVID-19這種大規模的災害變成手術病房然後下面的病床會增加相當多好那現在跟內政部的又有關我們看下一頁就是說什麼時候台灣的建築物開始要設防空避難室 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].start |
13975.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].end |
13995.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].text |
其實在63年以前這開始其實都有啦那其實就這個部分來講現在也它是一個標示性但是這個部分其實在規劃上都還保持著都還保留嘛所以原來我們看到的公寓大樓底下不是最早不是停車場喔它是叫防空避難部長那當初防空避難的目的是什麼就是如果 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].start |
13998.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].end |
14021.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].text |
如果有任何需要防空避難的部分當然就是找防空避難設施但是現在有加入就是如果有重大天災也是把它列進去裡面也是疏散撤離也放在這裡面所以都市的防災這些規劃都要有部長請繼續這邊有個新聞美蘇冷戰期間有一個防空避難的設計有人到家裡打開以前家裡的後院挖了一個防空壕在美國加州的西岸有這種東西 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].start |
14023.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].end |
14050.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].text |
挖這個黃宮都是害怕戰爭那現在呢現在如果想要在家裡後院弄一個這樣的設施你覺得是基於什麼樣的心態這個要警國員指教我不曉得他們是基於什麼心態好我們來看一下我不是在推銷啦現在特斯拉他說一個迷你屋啊只要台幣不到25萬元他有太陽能還有儲能的設施還可以污水處理假設部長如果你剛好住在鄉下有個空間你想不想擺一個在後花園 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].start |
14052.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].end |
14077.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].text |
因為我剛好就沒有啊 所以這個假設一直不成立啊那25萬你買得起嗎25萬台幣買得起啊 如果是美金買不起好 那我現在告訴你一個情況來往下看其實呢 現在很多的都會上班族呢他們其實在鄉下有買了一塊地那農地農用這沒有問題但是呢 他會怎麼樣 他會當假日農夫他中午假日呢 就去那個地方種種菜啦 看看這個養養這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].start |
14079.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].end |
14102.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].text |
爬藤啊什麼之類的就鄉村田園生活但是他有在做農業生產所以內政部呢根據農業用地農業設施的容許使用審查辦法然後說只要你超過300坪有農用的適時但是如果有農社就不能限制裁市因為這個大部分都當制裁市的名義然後呢農業主人不需要有農民的身份假如啦部長你具備這樣的身份你會不會想要弄一個還是我們署長你想要弄一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].start |
14107.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].end |
14131.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].text |
各位報告其實在鄉下要蓋這一類的其實大部分還不需要用到這個組合其實它通常會用貨櫃屋的形式但是貨櫃屋是不合乎所以其實概念是都一致所以說馬克思推出這個組合屋這種屋子可不可以成為農業生產設設一部分部長請你來我要跟你說一下要拜託你跟農業部長思考一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].start |
14131.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].end |
14149.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].text |
其實部長因為呢其實這樣的一個像那麼先進的像太空艙的東西其實在我們的農村它如果有太陽能的光電板它有儲能設施加上它有簡單的污水排放處理其實呢它在農民的公寮會改善很多 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].start |
14150.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].end |
14166.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].text |
現在如果你去農村看 蜜蜂餅啦 蟾蜂餅啦 還有羊尿啦放煮食的羊都很簡陋其實我相信如果給農民一個許可他弄得一個漂漂亮亮的 平常農業使用的時候呢 他符合但是最終是什麼時候 部長你看 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].start |
14168.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].end |
14184.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].text |
在都會的空地或農地他平常是這樣的使用但是遇到了有大型災害發生大地震啊什麼的防災韌性這個地方很快的就會可能成為這些避難小屋的放置堂所部長你覺得可以想像嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].start |
14188.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].end |
14210.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].text |
委員非常有創意但是我在想像就是說如果在假設有大地震發生這樣的狀況不是用所謂的我們的衛福部所說的這個臨時組合的方式的話會造成說如果這個大地震在災後復原的時候變成一大堆都是屬於違章建築說得很好這個反而是更難處理這就是921留給我們的印象因為過去台灣沒有想過這個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].start |
14212.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].end |
14233.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].text |
但是你看看馬斯克那個東西,它其實是移動式的而且它是一個量產的,是一個商業化的,平常就可以用組合屋,現在我們看到市面上的組合屋有固定在生產的廠商嗎?大部分都是在做公寮使用但是如果它成為一個家庭裡面,大家好像旅行拖車一樣常常就會構置放在三分地那裡放一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].start |
14234.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].end |
14253.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].text |
那他會覺得呢又有市場就有產線就有產能遇到需要大量擴充的時候可以馬上的生產製造而且不會是減肉的而且到時候符合有儲能可以自給自足還有污水處理然後平常的時候呢因為有平常的用途在必要的時候他就可以發揮這樣的作用而且 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].start |
14256.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].end |
14282.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].text |
空地要擺放很快要移除也很快這裡面都涉及到什麼法規包括我們的農地的農業設施容許跟以及我們目前地政司我們的國土署你們在做都市空間規劃的時候防災空間的思維你們會看到公園必要的時候我可以放很多這個對不對農地可以放很多這個要疏散大家去那裡疏散那署長那麼署長簡單講你覺得有哪些法規要修改 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].start |
14285.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].end |
14310.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].text |
根據委員報告啦 其實因為就暫時的話 我想我沒有講暫時啦 重大災害重大災害的時候 其實相關的災防法裡面其實我是覺得可以去討論這件事情第二個就是說 那憑這個配方我說明一下好了 其實我們像很多是屬於像過去災害發生以後 我們大概適用最多就是像類似有一些搶救災的重機具那我們過去的重機具在 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].start |
14311.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].end |
14334.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].text |
在分區裡面是找不到的重機具的停放場所是找不到的那我們最近跟交通部有在討論修法因為你這些重機具它還是要找到合法的地方可以去施作去放那但是這一類的它是屬於臨時性的生產它不像重機具我平常也要用那所以我的意思剛好相反我要打斷你就是平常就要能用才會有生產 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].start |
14335.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].end |
14361.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].text |
就要平常可以放才會需要的時候才大量的可以安放如果你沒有災防法不到災防法的啟動條件他不能放就沒有市場我也說明一下好了因為事實上國內不管是做小型的預住業者跟這個貨櫃屋業者其實他們平常就已經有能力在做這件事情了他們我們有看過很多的規格品他們只是在分區上面他如果有適合的現在都違法的啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].start |
14362.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].end |
14391.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].text |
我説明一下其實現在的資材市或小型的農舍其實也有類似用玉柱品去做的那所以其實我的意思是說國內的相關的業者其實他是有這方面的能力的那大概委員所在意的說我們如果因應緊急狀態的時候我們以防災的概念或是災後復原的概念那其實允許他做更多的話那其實或許是在災防法裡面去討論就可以剛好相反我還是不斷的提你你腦筋沒有轉過來如果只有災防的時候可以用他平常不會使用 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].start |
14391.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].end |
14416.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].text |
像這樣的貨櫃屋它現在都存在灰色地帶內政部不准許 農業部不准許但是如果你們明確的把它的功能面積 大小 重量固定裝置的要求設定進去那麼只要符合這些功能它就可以允許使用那它平常就有市場平常有市場的產品你需要的時候才有可能大量的擴充平常就可能擺放的地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].start |
14417.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].end |
14434.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].text |
需要的時候就能夠大量排放 平常只能放一個需要的時候可以放很多個這個法規的調適 請部長 拜託最後的結論請部長的內政部協同農業部來研議調整法規就空地農地設置容許設施沖弱避難儲存空間之用進行一個研究 可以嗎 部長指示一下可不可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].start |
14437.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].end |
14458.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].text |
我們要跟農業部一起來討論我想不只吧可能國防部也要吧我沒有只上國防部的要求國土署其實目前防災的主政是內政部我知道災有很多種災但是國土署所處理的有關土地的管制規範會碰觸到這個問題裡面的限制很大 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].start |
14459.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].end |
14471.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].text |
控告國防部的用地嗎沒有通難農地跟工地國土署的土地使用的規範那就是內政部啊沒有應該是這麼說啦我知道委員的意思啦但是應該是這麼說 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].start |
14473.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].end |
14491.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].text |
因為土地使用管制規則是剛性的它一旦開放了就開放了所以反而要設計一個專案容許或者特案容許或者容許現在制度上是沒有所以你們要有一個容許的概念審查容許的概念好不好你們可以去研議 可不可以答應去研議一下只是研議啊好 我找你就是原因謝謝部長 謝謝署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].start |
14495.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].end |
14506.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].text |
好 謝謝鍾嘉斌委員這個高金素梅委員改書面下面我們請陳培宇委員陳培宇委員陳培宇委員不在葉元之委員葉元之委員葉元之委員不在最後我們請郭國文委員質詢謝謝主席 有請劉部長劉部長有請 委員好部長好 部長非常謝謝受災婦的這個環保補貼方案那個公文已經下來了 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].start |
14522.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].end |
14526.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].text |
謝謝然後因為同樣要談這個補貼因為最近那個租屋補貼的問題在內政部在111年的7月21號的時候有曾經有講說不得以租金補貼為由來調漲租金但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].start |
14537.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].end |
14557.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].text |
就結果來說的話還是會造成租金的上漲就我個人看到數據給部長參考一下根據租金的這個CPI的這個增幅大幅放空主機處有報告101年到110年的時候的年漲大概0.81跟同期整體的這個CPI的這個平均漲幅0.92相差無幾 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].start |
14562.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].end |
14583.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].text |
但是什麼時候開始租金的這個CPI開始暴漲就是從111年7月的時候年增率突然就成為2%以上那也就是111年的時候7月的時候租金補貼擴大開始日期剛好是同步成長這同步成長那現階段的補貼從300億的擴大租屋補貼開始從12萬戶到50萬戶的試用那目前為止照最新的數字最新的數字 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].start |
14591.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].end |
14619.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].text |
在今年的二月份目前台灣的整體CPI是1.58那房租的時候是2.56這很明顯大概增加了大概還高於1%左右我想部長請教一下還是署長代打房租的CPI的漲幅跟這個租金補貼應該有關聯性吧根文報告啦其實我們在去年就已經在做過第一次的調查就針對我們領取租金補貼的 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].start |
14622.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].end |
14632.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].text |
戶數去做一個統計其中因為94%是沒有漲的只有6%而且漲幅也都不大那是你查到了沒有是租客填的我們有針對這個去做調查那這個大概因為主力總署他也是抽樣式的調查他也不是全面性的我們也是從我們的租金補貼我只能說明一件事情是因為租金補貼 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].start |
14650.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].end |
14670.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].text |
他普通租到的房子我說明一下因為他的房子很大部分都是屬於中古屋甚至老房子他就漲的機率本來就相對比較低但是今天如果是新成屋或是新古屋也就是在10年15年的那他漲的機率是有可能所以兩個是不太相同的市場 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].start |
14671.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].end |
14699.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].text |
你現在的這個說明老實講是有一個片面的一個說法的存在就主計數的這個統計數字來說還是相對有一定程度的公信力但是我今天不是在argue說真相是如何但是我們要追求真相跟關聯性是如何啦我其實想說是不是內政部因為現在已經實施這麼多年了嘛我們總不希望說把這個租金補貼造成一個助長的結果嘛所以說我們是不是應該去了解一下到底這幾年的政策的實施的結果 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].start |
14700.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].end |
14724.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].text |
結果如何來做一個回顧檢討一個評估出來有沒有可能不過這個部分就會涉及到所有的租屋市場這是所有的租屋市場而不是只有我們在做調查我們現在是談租屋市場透明化總是我們要逐步去檢討因為110年到現在好幾年了應該是開始做檢討還有評估的時候了我們大概本來是五年一次 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].start |
14725.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].end |
14752.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].text |
就是說我們再檢討看看這要不要加租但是因為這重大的政策不應該拘泥在那五年嘛好不好萬一五年之後越來越長越快那不是我們政策壓力越來越大嗎組長我做這個建議啦好不好我們做個評估啦部長謝謝啦 部長也在點頭那另外一個部分當然就是納管的問題啦這邊呢我們現階段所掌握到的房租契約就大概實際市場的大約六成啦也就是大概是72萬點7萬啦內政部的報告剛剛有寫嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].start |
14755.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].end |
14780.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].text |
但是出估抓起來倒推的話我們的租屋主大概是121.1萬也是代表約莫還有48.4萬的黑數也就是未納管的部分那我們現階段是透過公益出租人租金補貼包租貸款等等還有包括財政部的查稅等等所納管的對象而有所增加帳戶大概六成 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].start |
14780.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].end |
14783.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].text |
可是我必須說從我在財政委員會追蹤這個議題的時候目前我一直從108年 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].start |
14788.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].end |
14810.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].text |
財政部才抓到6053件也就是一年才抓到1000件違反這個營業稅的規定那這個部分有沒有一個可能性因為畢竟我們問到財政部的時候都提到說內政部是業管單位是主管機關那如果是這樣的話我做一個建議說內政部現在跟不動產的這個資訊平台 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].start |
14812.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].end |
14817.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].text |
譬如講591、台灣租屋網、租租網、一租網這些團體的時候有沒有合作的空間因為大部分的房東都會去這邊登記出租嘛在這出租的過程當中內政部是不是要跟這些平台合作一下在房東出租的資訊上面應該也有先行繳納繳稅的證明 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].start |
14834.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].end |
14850.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].text |
或者是用這個作為前提要進來可以攤人廣告這是第一個可能性然後也就是源頭管理的部分另外一個部分財政部有財政部的職責那這個方式可以達到一個實租登錄還有租租市場透明化的一個目標有沒有可能 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].start |
14851.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].end |
14874.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].text |
這個部分我們再跟業者這邊討論一下因為現在平台業者的部分是沒有公佈他的一個完整的一個門牌一些資訊所以那個東西如果要提供的部分可能還要跟業者討論一下因為業者可能他也會有一些考量對 我是覺得這個部分有沒有什麼誘因或制度來跟這業者合作畢竟他們掌握了最多的房東的一個訊息嘛那部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].start |
14876.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].end |
14891.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].text |
其實我們跟這些業者常常在討論他也希望跟內政部來充分合作但是我們剛剛就卡到一個問題是個資他要不要公佈個資要不要公佈不是由我們來決定因為我們沒有辦法用用這樣強制的方式來處理但是我們盡量會鼓勵 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].start |
14892.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].end |
14906.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].text |
讓他在租金市場裡面也是扮演一個助力讓很多的租金市場是更透明化但是我們還是需要跟那麼多溝通其實我們也常溝通啦他們也願意支持我們很多政策我們繼續努力啦可能不能用棒子啦 竟然用蘿蔔啦 用幼鷹啦謝謝 謝謝部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].start |
14909.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].end |
14928.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].text |
好 謝謝郭國文委員的質詢好 現在宣告登記發言委員除不在場者外其餘均已發言完畢我們詢問到此結束高興素美委員所提書面質詢列入紀錄刊登公報第三 書面質詢和未及答覆部分請相關單位於一週內以書面答覆並複製本會本次會議到此結束 現在散會 |