| IVOD_ID |
165385 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165385 |
| 日期 |
2025-11-13 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-4-20-8 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期財政委員會第8次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
8 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
20 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
財政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期財政委員會第8次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-11-13T10:53:11+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-11-13T11:05:12+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:12:01 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fffa2c65c610face8ef5252dbf62e7affa47f864c5dfb45a0f406a00a8f97c063e2c817e391698a95ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
李坤城 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:53:11 - 11:05:12 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-11-13T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期財政委員會第8次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請財政部莊部長翠雲、行政院主計總處陳主計長淑姿、中央銀行副總裁、國家發展委員會葉主任委員俊顯、經濟部次長、勞動部次長、衛生福利部次長就「經濟成長讓全民共享：政府如何縮短所得差距暨改善相對貧窮化之對策」進行專題報告，並備質詢。
二、審查本院民進黨黨團擬具「財政收支劃分法第十六條之一未分配款運用暫行條例草案」案。） |
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财政部 庄部长有请庄部长委员好部长好这个普发现金昨天1月12号已经陆续入账了对不对那请教一下部长手边上有数字吗就是从昨天入账到现在有多少人已经领到这个普发现金1万块了 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
25.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
39.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
我到昨天的數字 今天我們再統計已經超過1000萬人已經領到了現金那這裡面包括直接入帳還有登記入帳就是原來有去網站去登記入帳的這樣合計起來超過1000萬人 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
42.819 |
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就是那個網路登記的然後還有包含直接入帳的那直接入帳的部分的話是入到他們各自的帳戶就對了對 直接入帳比如說有勞保年金的災保年金 國民年金他們原來都有固定政府有固定的那固定的帳戶是銀行還是郵局 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
64.232 |
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76.585 |
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應該有銀行也有是不是都有銀行跟郵局應該都有都是固定輸入進入他的帳號那這個部分就有大概有400多萬的人都是直接入帳了400多萬的人直接入帳458萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
79.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
91.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
有458萬人是直接入帳是直接入帳的所以大概有600萬人是登記登記有六天的時間就是11月5號到11月10號有588萬人去做預登記了當然陸續這兩天都可以不管身分證號的尾數都可以再繼續做其實我們也有在做宣傳現在有五種領取的方式對不對但是很多人還是第一個會搞不清楚狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
106.721 |
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111.91 |
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就是說到底是線上登記郵局領ATM領有些人就是說這個可不可以帶領有些人就想說這個會有詐騙的問題所以也不敢在線上登記 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
120.123 |
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140.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
我們有沒有想到就是說我們乾脆就是比如說單一帳戶我們每個國民都有一個單一的帳戶比如說像郵局我們出生之後我們就有一個單一的帳戶那這個單一的帳戶呢就是以後不管像是這一種的普發現金或是像您講的就是說有一些我們是有一些津貼 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
141.681 |
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168.699 |
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要匯給這一些需要的人那我們是不是就乾脆我們就乾脆比如說郵局好因為郵局是國營的嘛也比較沒有爭議那我們出生之後每個人在郵局有一個帳戶然後以後有類似這一種津貼或是說這種福利的話我們就直接匯到那個帳戶那也不會有說到底有幾種領取的方式啊也避免這個被詐騙以後有沒有機會朝這種方式去做啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
169.346 |
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178.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
我想委員您這個建議也就是說每一個國民就如同健保卡一樣人生就給他一個健保然後我們政府是不是給他一個帳號以後相關的津貼或什麼都直接入帳戶我想這個部分也許可以我們跨部會來討論看看也成為一個國家的基礎建設會然後當然還要考慮其他的問題我想這個部分要從長的研議之前有沒有想過這方面的就是說因為這個普發現金也不是第一次 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
195.731 |
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215.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
之前倒没有这样子的一个规划这样子啊那你觉得实际上可行吗我的建议我想应该还是要跨部会大家一起来讨论要考虑的因素可能也比较多好 没关系你们讨论一下去思考一下跨部会想一下我是觉得说你有一个单一的账户每个国民都有 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
216.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
231.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
那類似這種津貼你就直接匯進去第一個不用怕詐騙時間到就匯進去然後呢這個也是這種方式就不用說我還要去ATM或是去郵局或是去哪裡也很方便然後呢也不會有什麼帶領的問題這小孩子到底要給誰領這個是自己領還是給家長領 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
236.504 |
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254.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
那郵局的營業時間第一個它據點多營業時間長然後它也是國營的比較不會衍生一些爭議我覺得你們研究一下好不好我想這個部分要跨部會大家一起來研議思考一下做一個周全的準備好 謝謝部長那我們接下來請這個主席總處陳主席長還有這個衛福部呂市長好 陳主席長 呂市長 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
267.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
279.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
主席長好 之前在立法院有提過說我們全台灣的低收入戶只佔1.13%如果加上中低收入戶只佔2.26%如果採取相對貧窮率來計算全台有7.57%是屬於貧窮的範圍高於低收入戶的統計高很多 對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
293.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
322.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
沒錯這中間有落差嘛 是不是因為當初這個家庭所得他只計算經常性收入財富沒有算進去所以他裡面會有一些隱藏性的所得所以在衛福部他在設計的時候他會把財產和一些相關的數據設計在裡面所以他的數據這當中就會有一點落差但是他對如果說有一些貧窮的黑術他本身沒有辦法得到救助他另外也有其他的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
322.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
333.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
方式的一個做一些補助的一個方式這個要由衛福部來說明好 那主計長我問你你認為說我們在統計的這個數字上面有沒有沒有算進去的大家講的貧窮黑數 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
335.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
364.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
就是因為當初這個部分是沒有把財富算進來財富沒有算進來包括譬如說你的資產一些相關的負債如果說整個算進來的部分還是會有譬如說有的他明明是失業但是因為他是屬於有能力去工作的我們把他視為他是有所得這個部分他可能就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
365.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
375.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
這個就是現在大家有在詬病的就是說虛擬收入的部分對不對對 這個是這樣我這個部要請衛福部那我先問主席長妳認為這個虛擬收入合理嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
377.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
397.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
这个部分我要看他怎么就是说我们现在是假设就是说你其实是有工作能力的你只是现在没有工作那但是呢我就假定你呢你如果去工作你就有这些收入嘛是不是但世界上不是每个人都愿意去可以找工作就可以找到工作或是找到合适的工作或是说找到的工作可以维持我的基本生活啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
398.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
421.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
但是跟委員報告 事實上我們有相當的措施譬如說你失業 整個有可以領失業的一個救濟所以整個可以領到長達六個月所以這本身都是有互相一個救濟的一個措施在讓他不至於說那當然就是屬於社會救濟的部分對 這個是失業的時候你就會有領到失業救助可以長達六個月 做一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
423.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
428.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
好 我知道我們當然有一些社會福利做得還不錯啦那主席想請回我就問這一個理事長 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
430.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
457.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
那次長因為現在社會救助法正在討論那我先問好了社會救助法大家比較關心就是我剛有提到一個就是虛擬收入的制度是沒錯就是說你只要去工作你就有收入了你只是現在沒有去工作而已所以我就把你這個年紀你可能找到的工作按照你是哪個類型的你每個月可以收入多少就把它當成是一個虛擬的收入是不是是沒錯 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
458.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
472.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
那也因為有這個虛擬收入的制度其實啊我們這個很多的這個屬於貧窮的人就沒有把它算進去你看我們貧窮率好像很低其實實際上不是那回事的這個您也當過社會局局長您應該很清楚了解還有另外一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
473.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
491.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
我們所得還是採取家戶的計算你採取家戶計算很多人覺得說我家戶計算其實我跟我的家人其實已經都沒有任何的關係了只有血緣在而已然後也把家人的財產共同計算進去 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
493.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
509.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
那在這種情況之下你就是領不到一些相關的就算我們有中低收入的補助相關的社會救助的津貼我也領不到啊那在這種情況之下我們社會救助法有沒有至少針對這兩點外界一直在質疑的有做出調整或修正 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
510.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
532.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
非常感謝委員的關心剛剛委員確實有指出兩個重點我們現在目前有一個就是所謂的設算所得那設算所得的那個部分我想我先跟委員報告我們現在目前就是我們講那個虛擬收入我們這個部分我們確實有在檢討很簡單我們現在目前就是說我們的檢討方式現在就是說會以一定的這個所得我們現在可能打個折扣 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
534.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
562.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
這個幾個折扣要怎麼打勒報告委員這個我那個在向委員的報告我們現在目前主要是參考勞動部他那邊有關於那個薪資薪資的這一個的那個數據還有其實最重要事實上是有關於這一個就是所謂的無一定雇主的那個所謂的非典型就業者他們的這個薪資按照這兩個指數我們現在先去做一些作業推算這是第一個重點另外第二個剛剛委員好你做了一些改變那跟現在的制度有什麼不一樣嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
563.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
584.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
對沒錯有時候不一樣會因為你這樣子涉涮會因為這樣而放寬啦會放寬放寬大概範圍會多大咧跟委員報告現在剛剛就是說其實在貧窮裡面我也趁這個機會解釋一下就是說有相對貧窮跟絕對貧窮那我們現在目前有進入社會救助只有所謂的絕對貧窮那跟委員報告我們現在低收中低收總共占了二點 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
585.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
607.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
大概2.4%這就屬於絕對貧窮的嘛對 沒錯我們現在目前根據這一個我們現在目前其實民團這邊還有各界大概有很多像這一個人極合一啦還有剛剛委員剛剛所說的有關於這個有關於戶數的問題這部分我們都有檢討那預估這一個部分的話大概一定是會放寬但是我也要跟委員報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
608.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
630.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
台灣真的在這個部分我要利用這個機會要說我們的相對貧窮我們的相對貧窮率真的只有7.54這當然會有黑數的問題黑數的部分我們現在目前其實也有八大津貼除了社會救助之外我們在老人生活老人 身心障礙還有困境的部分事實上再加上去的話我們會到8% |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
632.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
648.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
8%的部分我跟委員報告這個部分我們是比日本 韓國跟美國都還比他們還高我知道我們有一些社會的福利在那我們現在是談的是社會救助那兩個概念是應該是不一樣的當然沒錯我現在就釐清就是說有一個就是絕對貧窮跟相對貧窮就是兩個不能夠混淆在一起那第一個你提到就是說虛擬制度會做修改就對了那那個家戶所得勒 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
656.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
674.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
家務所這邊我們也會一併就是說像有一些可能是嫁出去的女兒啦或者說等等那些對啊那財產也一起算啊對 所以這個我們覺得應該有值得來商榷之處啦那社會救助法 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
676.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
701.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
今年會送出來嗎包括我們現在正在努力當中那有辦法年底送到立法院來嗎我們會努力會努力我們努力朝這個方向因為我知道現在大家對這個問題非常關心加油啦就是說經濟成長率很高啦然後這個看起來數字都不錯但是還是有很多社會下貧窮的人需要我們去協助啦除了社會津貼社會福利之外社會救助法的確需要改變 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
702.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
715.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
沒錯沒錯要有些與時俱進剛剛委員說的一些該鬆應該要那個合理的我們要把它合理化好謝謝次長好非常感謝昆城委員謝謝好謝謝昆城召委謝謝呂次長好可以啊好那麼我們再請林市民委員質詢 |