| IVOD_ID |
165361 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165361 |
| 日期 |
2025-11-13 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-4-22-6 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期教育及文化委員會第6次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
6 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
22 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
教育及文化委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期教育及文化委員會第6次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-11-13T10:08:16+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-11-13T10:21:25+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:13:09 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fffa2c65c610face0fcce6d29e52781fe72a0011d4bca9f9999b3dda7382768081c04d3e6e31e3a45ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
羅廷瑋 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:08:16 - 10:21:25 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-11-13T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期教育及文化委員會第6次全體委員會議（事由：邀請中央研究院院長廖俊智列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。
【11月12日及13日兩天一次會】） |
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現在請羅廷維委員質詢謝謝主席 有請院長有請院長好 羅委員長院長好 今年4月10號我有跟院長就教過台灣距離諾貝爾獎有多遙遠 院長還有印象嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
30.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
58.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
有那時候院長答覆需要有更好的土壤更好的環境這個科研環境的創造才能夠創造人才那才能夠讓人才在無憂無慮的環境之下能夠發揮他們的創造力所以希望大家給予支持給予鼓勵跟國際一起來競爭我們要看到的是研究人員所實際的貢獻對社會對學術這樣子的一個方面的貢獻而不是單靠他成功 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
59.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
72.846 |
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成就有了成名我們才肯跟他說跟他拍拍手啊所以他要得到諾貝爾獎在努力的過程當中我們要給予肯定給予支持給予鼓勵經費上最大的彈性 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
74.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
101.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
所以賴總統剛剛宣誓333諾貝爾計畫目標要在未來的30年讓台灣在物理、科學、醫學三大領域至少增加三位諾貝爾獎的得主請問院長賴清德總統在宣誓之前有沒有跟你討論過沒有沒有原來他也沒跟你討論我還以為只有衛福部會有這樣的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
103.919 |
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130.269 |
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那我想未来上我还是希望你能够转达台湾学术说明一下我知道赖总统一直很关切诺贝尔奖但是没有具体谈到说几年几个这个在宣布前才口头跟我讲这样子但是我知道赖总统一直都很关切没关系我没有说他不关切但是我要 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
131.229 |
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153.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
希望的是他應該要多跟你請益多跟你請教樹葉有專攻啊這個部分您畢竟是比較專長但是為什麼我需要他跟你請教因為我希望你能夠反映的是你應該要跟總統報告台灣學術上面臨的一些困境你要讓他知道困難點在哪 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
154.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
182.86 |
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有目標我們當然不會只是說一昧的唱衰啦但是有目標是好的但是網友也會說30年後他都不知道在哪裡了我也不知道在哪裡了但是這個目標定定以後你要怎麼執行而不是只是喊喊口號所以他必須先了解中研院的困境學術的困境這可以認同嗎非常同意所以我們就像你說的4月10號你講的土壤環境怎麼具體來做 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
184.98 |
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198.302 |
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你觉得呢如果要你现在回复什么样的困境你要怎么跟他说我刚才已经回复过不过可以再讲一次第一个要有长期稳定的经费资源第二个要鼓励勇于尝试 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
199.872 |
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222.881 |
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什么叫勇于尝试不是说大家做过写个计划你照计划进行常常计划中会有改变所以就跟一般我们审查经费审查计划的精神很不一样第三个要容许失败这又更不一样了我们每次什么都没做到就会被某个单位来盯这种状况下大家就不会 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
223.641 |
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239.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
不敢嘗試我懂嘛最後呢減少外界的干預我跟你講外界干預不只是政治也是社會也是經濟所有大家這個飯還沒煮好就常常掀鍋你看飯會不會熟預算的彈性支持啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
240.527 |
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257.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
前線作戰背後不要有干擾又要搬屍回巢啊對不對那大膽的假設小心的求證嘛允許錯誤的發生嘛這個東西我們都知道但是我想執政者他有他的為難 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
258.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
279.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
但是你要告訴執政者 你要給予最大的這個部分的支持不要說你在前面作戰 那就我們歷史就有演變出前線的將軍 後面整個政治的紛亂然後做出了不對的決策 要求班師回朝這個部分對於整個實際的研究上 都會有很大的很難以呈現 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
280.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
308.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
所以KPI要如何呈現這部分我也希望說你要有具體的方向讓他們能夠當然你說犯錯嘛或者是包容嘛他要有多少的KPI你要訂定嘛而不是一次犯錯怎麼樣就給你們這個計畫整個都砍掉了胎死腹中這部分上KPI要怎麼樣去做到我覺得這個部分你可以去大膽的去擬定這個KPI讓現在的執政者讓現在的總統他們知道啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
309.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
326.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
我觉得这个部分你可以作为整个实验团队里面我想这个总统关系的大方向这个细节到这部分这恐怕不是细节你来定嘛是的但你要来建议嘛对不对那第二个中研院的经费对分配多根据当前的政策热点 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
328.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
355.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
包括能源量子科技等技術均積極的展現投入不過對於生醫產業的規劃跟資源分配也同樣值得關注尤其在總統府現在的健康台灣委員會提出的生醫產業要成為第二個護國神山政策的一個目標之下中研院的角色就越來越重要所以中研院在生醫方面的一個研究角色資源投入也應該進一步的被檢視針對這一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
358.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
370.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
院長有沒有說明一下我們院裡面的經費95%以上都是所謂bottom up就是所有的研究人員自己去發想 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
372.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
400.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
那我们院方只是鼓励朝哪方向投入那所有三大学组的经费投入事实上是相当均匀的虽然不是完全一致但是我想生医领域的投入一向是我们院里面的重中之重这个过去几十年来都是如此未来也是如此我想目前可以大概说明一下中医院就生医研发的规划是什么吗投入多少资源 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
402.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
425.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
我想这个粗略来讲大概是说资源三分之一因为我们三大学组约是三分之一我想甚至可以说三分之一强就你所知道有没有跨足精准医疗那当然有啊那是我们主要的研究领域之一啊刚才这个我讲的TPMI台湾这个人体生物资料库 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
425.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
454.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
還有各種基礎研究我們的目的都是在做精準醫療都很關心這個精準醫療跟生醫材料的這些新興領域所以這個部分上我們會持續追蹤也希望說院長能夠大力的支持我們也希望大院能夠大力支持如果有這樣子需要我們的地方當然我們也願意來支持第二個我要跟簡單的就教就是333計畫有一個友善的一個研究環境 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
454.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
476.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
要跟院長討論的是可能有另外一個不友善的一個研究環境的事情為延攬更多的優秀人才我們推動了二次長聘鼓勵60歲到63歲戒退研究人員投入長期的一個研究計畫當中可延聘到70歲我肯定中研院留任頂尖人才的一個決心支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
477.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
498.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
但是我也要擔憂我一定要擔憂擔憂這個政策帶來世代的一個排擠效應因為根據業務報告裡面截至114年10月底中央公務預算的底下有研究人員805名博士後研究人員426名請問院長二次延聘有沒有核定名額一次延聘至70歲後請問相關審查的標準為何 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
500.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
522.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
所谓二次长聘就是我们希望他能够在60岁左右提出如何再创学术高峰我们并没有投入更多的资源而是能够去刺激这些研究人员所有的研究人员能够及早提出二次学术高峰的规划 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
523.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
548.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
是叫他早点规划那你只要规划好我一次给你延聘到70岁否则的话你一年一年来所以资源并没有增加我简单讲我们支持这样子的一个延聘计划但是他希望要有一个审核标准而不是说任何人都轻易的能够达成那当然不是所以我们讲的是二次长聘为什么讲二次长聘跟一次长聘都一样大家都知道说长聘在中文医院是非常困难的 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
549.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
571.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
那这个因为很困难也不是说套个公式你就可以达到达到这个这个标准那所有东西都是靠所有的同才研究员心中一把尺做这个判断那同样在二次长聘我们也希望用为什么会带到这样的一个想法就是说最主要是不要压缩到年轻的学者那倒不会这个我要提醒啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
571.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
591.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
正好是相反我們希望說年輕學者到40歲50歲就開始有刺激要開始計劃60歲的時候他怎麼樣提出這個二次長聘那院長最後一個議題我在勞動權益上這個進展這個過程呢我想我是非常關切的那近幾年我想 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
592.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
620.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
我們面對著勞動權益的一個逐漸提升跟關心我認為中文院在研究卓越之外對於勞動權益的一個法規遵循還是要有所標竿所以在這個部分上我也要再一次的提到因為我來自基層我很關心勞動權益的一個議題去年在審查預算的時候我就特別提出政治所的徵裁有違法的問題違反了就業服務法希望中文院要注意你還記得這個案子嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
621.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
646.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
是的那当时我也建议院方应该要全部盘点征才的资讯跟屁用的制度确认是否有违反当时你也回应我人事单位人力有限需要一点时间盘整但是我要问的是说现在我理解上说实际操作有一些压力但是问题已经浮现我希望能够作为你们改善工作的优先事项 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
647.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
671.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
您可以同意嗎是的我想委員是有特殊的案例需要有 當然有昨天我去翻閱中原院的人才招募發現工作福利寫職缺適用勞動基準法寫週休二日國定假日適用勞基法這算福利這是最低的標準吧怎麼會是額外的福利 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
673.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
675.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
好 第二個承攬勞務的這個人員心之險 免疫 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
680.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
708.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
这样的表述是违反了就业服务法第五条先跟委员说明一下就是经过委员的提醒其实我们人事室的部分我们有定期在所中心的部分告诉他们说基本上你的劳动的相关的条件的部分都比较符合劳动协议法跟就业服务法的相关规定那委员您刚才提到的那一个案子的部分它的确是一个劳务承揽的部分那因为劳务承揽的部分它应该是不适用我们就业服务法里面有关于那个未到4万薪资的部分揭示的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
708.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
736.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
那可能就是就我们网页上面的部分它可能在劳务承担部分它没有说明得非常清楚所以这个部分我们后续会请所中心如果你是属于劳务承担性质的话这个部分我们会希望它在所有的相关职务说明部分是说明清楚我希望中文院以最高学术机关的一个格局跟标准去呈现展现对于劳动法规的一个谨慎态度那也请中文院重新的检视所有的公告内容并确定 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
737.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
755.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
這個屬於服務勞動合乎規定審查的一個機制讓院內跟工作外的整個真真切切都可以成為學術最重要的一個場域所展現出來的一個格局謝謝委員的提醒那這個案子的重點是他不是用勞基法因為他是勞務承攬因為他是那個洗魚缸的就先跟委員澄清說這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
756.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
786.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
有没有违法违规是其一有没有观感不佳是其二我还是希望说在这个部分上能够呈现出我们有注意到说各所中心对于不是牢记法的它没有明确标示所以我们接下来重点会去宣导说在适用牢记法以及非适用牢记法的成蓝人员我们要做明确标示十秒我要跟你讲就是从之前的政治所所发生的一个议题到我会长期的去关注这些议题让你们知道其实有立法委员很关切这个东西好吗 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
787.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
788.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
加油謝謝委員謝謝羅廷維委員 |