| IVOD_ID |
16536 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16536 |
| 日期 |
2025-03-20 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-36-3 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第3次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
3 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
36 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
司法及法制委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第3次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2025-03-20T08:31:13+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-03-20T12:25:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
03:53:47 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/8d241381c4f8c7fc4f190e5fa5d6a8233029e1f945e4c9527692a6bdb7e2f09f9aa0351ed616084d5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-03-20T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第3次全體委員會議（事由：邀請行政院人事行政總處人事長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:31:13 - 12:25:00 |
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報告委員會初席委員10人已足法定人數請主席宣布開會我們現在開會進行報告事項宣讀上次會議議事錄立法院第11屆第三會期司法及法治委員會第二次全體委員會議議事錄時間中華民國114年3月13日星期四上午9時2分至12時37分 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
1803.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
1825.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
地點本院紅樓302會議室出席委員林倩琪委員等13人列席委員賴慧媛委員等13人列席官員法務部部長鄭明謙等人主席吳昭吉委員宗憲報告事項一 宣讀上次會議議事錄決定確定二 邀請法務部部長率所屬單位主管列席報告業務概況 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
1826.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
1844.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
及立法計畫並備質詢本次會議由委員羅志強等14人提出質詢決定一報告及詢答完畢二委員質詢時要求提供相關資料或以書面答覆者請相關機關盡速送交個別委員及本會宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
1847.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
1864.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
我們現在在場的委員不足一決人數那等一下三人以後我們再來確定那我們接著介紹到場的委員跟應要列席的官員我們先介紹在場委員我們黃國昌黃委員還有 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
1868.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
1885.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
你的名單裡面今天應邀列席的官員是我們人事長蘇俊榮人事長還有我們常務副人事長我們懷旭副人事長還有公務人力發展學院院長陳明中陳院長來 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
1892.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
1921.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
那我們在其以沒有介紹的列席的代表請參院名單我們就不再逐一介紹並列入公報的記錄那本次的議程我們邀請行政院人事行政總處人事長列席報告業務的概況並被質詢那我們現在來進行報告請行政院人事行政總處書人事長我們今天 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
1925.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
1945.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
好 早安委員還有各位同仁大家早安人事總署統籌各個機關人力資源管理政策推動各項前瞻性人力資源管理措施以下請就本總署重要業務推動情形及今年工作重點進行報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
1946.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
1968.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
首先在機關組織部分 運動部及相關組織法草案已經在今年的1月20號公布配合整個憲法法庭的判決 正積極推動各支會成立在行政法人部分 已規劃在文化部新設國家語言研究發展中心在海委會新設國家海洋科技營運中心 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
1969.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
1981.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
設置條例已經以113年6月27號及今年的3月3號函請達言審議在延額管理部分協助機關依業務特訓導入AI技術檢討 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
1984.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
2001.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
檢列行政事務人力優先抑制到民生安全及新興議題人力需求上總計增加公務人力約4000多億人經分配合本年度中央機關預算延遏總數219950人較109年減少約927人在中高階文官培育方面 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
2010.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
2031.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
2014年以智慧台灣永續前行為主題辦理國家政務班及高階領導班安排以國內外長官協議員部門就政策推動現況進行交流研討那在培育公務人員AI智能部分在一等公務員PLUS學習平台建置人工智慧專區提供180門數位課程 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
2033.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
2050.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
截至到今年的2月底選讀人數已經達49萬5千人以上那今年也將啟動AI政府領航人才發展計畫及其推動公部門智慧創新轉型在友善職場部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
2050.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
2077.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
本總處除了持續精進員工協助方案推動公部門員工托育服務等友善生養措施外也在113年12月13日建議職場霸凌案件的通報平台提供員工公開申訴管道及追蹤列管申訴處理的情形另外強化員工保護將積極以保訓會及勞動部演繹推動職場霸凌相關作業的法制化 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
2079.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2102.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
在照顧金工教員工部分 金工教員工待遇經行政院核定以114年度通案調整3%那114年期政府約顧工友及業用人員等基層員工的月薪應該高於最低工資的1.1倍另外也增加了工程人員的待遇 除了增資專業家籍以調整工程獎金外 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
2102.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2129.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
增訂留任獎金拉近以民間薪資水準的差距在人事作業流程簡化上本總處建置了WebHR GPT生成式的AI人事法規查詢系統及以英轉文字稿的會議紀錄摘要功能提供更便捷的人事法規查詢及會議紀錄產生的一個服務那從113年到今年的2月底 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2129.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2152.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
我們使用人數已經達五萬人次今年將持續推動WebHR整合前序部相關作業流程以達人事資訊作業單一系統服務本總處將持續配合國家發展趨勢及政府施政重點推動智慧化人事服務提升政府競爭力敬請各位委員繼續會議支持以上報告進行指教 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2155.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2171.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
好 謝謝機關代表報告完畢相關書面內容請各位來參閱並列入公報紀錄因為議事錄之前已經宣讀完畢尚未確定現在先確定議事錄請問各位上次會議事錄有錯誤或遺漏 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2173.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2198.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
如果沒有的話我們議事錄就確定了那現在開始來進行詢答本會委員詢答時間8分鐘那必要時得延長2分鐘非本會委員詢答時間是5分鐘並不再延長那上午10點半的時候我們截止發言登記我們現在請登記第一位我們黃國昌黃委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2205.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2208.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
謝謝主席 我們來有請人事長請人事長委員長人事長早喔 我從去年開始就一直非常關注軍公教挑釁機制的法制化 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2220.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2248.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
那事實上這個法治化拖延過久從2018年的時候監察院就具體的指責你應該還記得在去年的時候你們在五月的時候把軍公教調心機制法治化的書面報告送來我那時候問你啊說去年年底因為你答應嘛去年年底以前要把法案送到本院來我還問你說會不會跳票 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2249.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2276.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
你說不會跳票會送到大院來我還問你說您以前會送來然後你說會 會送來有送來嗎謝謝委員給我這個機會來說明事實上在上一年的12月6號我們已經簽成行政院而且在12月7號的時候有林政府委員召開會議審查事實上我們現在就等行政院要送到大院來審議 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2279.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2308.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
所以到目前為止沒有送來是確定嗎我們四十一個一個來啦第一個法案沒有送到立法院來確定嗎對所以是行政院不願意嗎這個現在是行政院在拖嗎行政院他等著要排入整個宴會的議程今天你送來的業務報告啊軍公教調清機制的法制化也不是你今年的重要的工作目標啊所以我看了就很困惑啊現在大家是要打假球嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2310.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2335.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
去年答應我年底以前要送到立法院來也沒有送來啊現在推給行政院推給行政院以後又落入了我們大家非常熟悉的無限循環什麼叫非常熟悉的無限循環不斷的演繹 持續的演繹不曉得要演繹到什麼時候嘛而且你今天的業務報告你上面有寫軍公教調性機制的法制化嗎有嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2337.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2360.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
那個是在上一年上一年寫的那已經在上一年寫的有完成嗎我們就等行政院排入整個院會討論完不是啦我對於行政機關大家這樣皮球踢來踢去我真的嘆為觀止啦真的嘆為觀止啦去年答應要送來我還特別問你會不會跳票 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2361.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2376.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
你還信誓旦旦跟我說不會跳票到現在就是沒看到嘛來我具體的問啦從過去的經驗法則啊如果要等行政院送來我看要等到天荒地老到2028年都不會送來 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2377.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2393.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
我進一步具體的問我們針對有關於軍公教的人員待遇調整條例草案台灣民眾黨我們已經正式提案了如果我拜託召委排案審查你們會不會反對樂觀其成還是反對希望等行政院 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2396.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2421.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
樂觀啟程絕對樂觀啟程嘛好第二個重要的問題啊就是公務人員的安慰辦法我們從2018年第一次在立法院見面的時候你應該記得很清楚嘛當初說要調整沒有調整所以去年3月我也肯定你很有擔當啦答應的事情沒有做到你也在司法法制委員會震動道歉我也接受了 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2422.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2446.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
我覺得政務官啊應該要像你這個樣子就有擔當嘛我答應的事情沒有做到我鄭重道歉這個是應該有一個啊基本的風範啊而不是東西跳票了以後啊還在那邊東拉西扯不願意負起啊政治責任但是您道歉歸道歉該追的事情我還是會追啦是好寶訊會 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2450.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2474.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
一樣我去年追保訓會因為真正的主管單位是我們考試院的保訓會嘛那只不過保訓會在訂這個辦法的時候通常會跟人總啊去做一個協商我去年追了半天啊保訓會在今年二月的時候終於預告了安慰辦法修正草案這個安慰辦法修正草案人事總處有沒有看過 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2475.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2492.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
有 有看過滿意嗎整個過程一直在跟我們討論滿意嗎就是不是滿意的問題是大家兩院之間大家對相關條文的規定有一個共識這是比較重要所以現在這個安慰辦法是人總也有共識的喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2492.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2506.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
就是他整個過程我們持續兩方都有高密度的在一起討論我為什麼要先問這個問題啊因為我看了安慰辦法以後啊我跟任市長報告我非常不滿意啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2507.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2526.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
我非常不滿意啊我為什麼說非常不滿意剛剛你在報告的時候也有提到嘛針對於有關於職場霸凌的機制公務人員被霸凌的機制去年的時候我們勞動部啊發生的不幸事件讓整個社會憤怒 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2528.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2554.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
我們的政府也說要改革在這次的安慰辦法裡面我的確有看到針對職場霸凌的部分有設置相關的條文規定嘛任市長你看過嗎我有看過你覺得那樣的條文規定足夠嗎我覺得是要考慮到條文的一個完整性還有可執行性還是蠻重要的好 我們就來看它的完整性跟可執行性嘛來看一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2556.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2577.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
第36條規定啊各機關不可以因為公務人員提起職場霸凌的申訴給予不利的行政處分嘛那我下一個問題如果因為職場霸凌的申訴給不利的處分它的法律效果是什麼法律效果事實上當事人他可以跟保訓會提起救濟啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2578.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2604.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
你不用這個規定我也可以提起救濟啊重點是什麼重點就是你要確保一個安全的職場環境嘛不要讓他因為提起申訴而受到不利益的處分嘛那你要用法律效果是什麼制止他讓他不敢做不利益的處分所以我才問你的法律效果是什麼嘛如果你的法律效果是你被不利益的處分那你自己可以去救濟 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2606.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2616.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
那這36條的規定那不是形同劇文嗎寫好看的啊你有這條沒這條都一樣啊我本來就可以提起行政救濟啊我有說錯嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2618.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2642.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
我這裡跟委員補充一下很重要這一次有增加對機關首長的一個懲處給他一個責任很重要的就是以前大家等於就是說你按照你的標準程序保訓會的救濟可是機關首長你如果承受一些懲處的壓力他在執行這件事情他會更加的謹慎我具體給你看什麼叫做 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2643.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2673.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
不敢給他不利的處分有不利的處分要有法律效果來保証會2021年的時候他們就委託研究計畫就直接講嘛公務人員安慰辦法因為在公務人員保障法19條的授權規定裡面沒有給他有強制性的作為沒有處罰的規定沒有罰則沒有用嘛你們今天修了安慰辦法但公務人員保障法長得還是一模一樣啊長得還是一模一樣啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2674.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2699.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
你們結構性的問題修了這個安慰辦法一樣沒有解決那針對有關職場霸凌申訴的部分台灣民眾黨黨團針對職場霸凌防治法我們已經提了專法透過專法來加以處理任市長贊不贊成基本上我會尊重那個委員的一個提議第二個我更進一步具體的問 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2700.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2727.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
不可以做不當的差別待遇喔你如果做不當的差別待遇因為申訴接下來有行政法環的規定這才是有法律效果嘛法律人在講的法律效果指的就是這個嘛你不能做什麼事你如果做了什麼事接下來會有什麼法律效果但是你們的安慰辦法根本沒有啊你們的安慰辦法完全沒有啊跟當初保訓會在2021年花錢找學者做的委託研究計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2729.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2746.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
所指責的缺點長得一模一樣啊這樣的修法方向人事長贊不贊成不過我這裡要跟委員報告在整個公告版本之後我們在跟保訓會談的時候事實上有加入那個裁罰的部分規範在第幾條你說你們有加入裁罰的部分嗎規範在第幾條 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2758.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2768.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
保障法本身對嘛 就不是安慰辦法嘛所以我一開始我開宗明義就請教你那個安慰辦法你看了你滿意不滿意嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2769.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2798.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
我看了以後我就很直接跟人事長講嘛我看了就不滿意嘛為什麼看了不滿意沒有辦法解決問題嘛所以你們現在重新協調過了以後現在是要推動公務人員保障法的修正草案嗎現在是公務員保障法跟安慰辦法同時一起處理這樣兩邊來確保當事人的一些潛意確保還有給機關所長我跟人事長講一個基本的法律概念 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2799.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2816.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
你公務人員保障法修完了以後你的安慰辦法才可以有牙齒這存在很久的問題剛剛你的同事在下面幫你打PASS我就在問說你們是不是要推動公務人員保障法的修法你的同事一直在那邊點頭你可能沒有看到 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2818.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2837.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
我們同步在進行我跟你講這種事情所謂同步在進行公務人員保障法你如果沒有用法律的層次把它修好的話你去處理安慰辦法一樣沒有辦法解決問題現在我一個最關鍵的問題公務人員保障法的修法草案這個會籍可以送來嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2843.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2856.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
這個考試院我們了解的是安慰辦法大概四月底五月初會送到六合院來備查啦對啊 但現在問題就出來了你公務人員保障法沒有修你的安慰辦法 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2857.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2878.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
就還是一樣按照舊的公務人員保障法授權訂的安慰辦法一樣沒有牙齒阿阿你剛剛又講同步阿現在又說4月會先被採保障法應該現在情緒部也同時在找相關機關在訂阿我這樣講好了啦有的時候一些不幸的事件發生的時候社會娛樂會很強烈 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2880.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2900.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
政府機關會信誓旦旦的說要做什麼事情但是往往新聞過後沒有人在意了沒有人在意了你們的腳步是不是有真的做到當初承諾的就需要追蹤而我的習慣我相信任市長應該非常熟悉我的習慣是我一定會追到底 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2901.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2929.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
我一定會追到底這個會期喔這個會期針對有關於公務人員保障法也好針對有關於職場霸凌的專法也好針對有關於公務人員調薪機制的法治化也好我期待行政部門趕快把你們的東西送到本會來你們東西如果不送來我會拜託召委排審因為台灣民眾黨黨團我們全部修法的版本全部都提出來了 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2930.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
2949.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
從公務人員調薪機制的法制化到職場霸凌的專法到公務人員保障法我們全部都提出來了我希望到時候不要因為行政機關提不出法案又繼續拖延 可以嗎會朝這個方向努力好 謝謝好 謝謝黃國昌委員我們接下來請林倩琦委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
2966.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
2974.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
我們主席還有我們立院行政院同仁大家早安 大家好我們有請任市長請任市長委員長您好感謝您上禮拜會我們也就人事的問題有了一些討論在今天一開始我先就其實上禮拜有講過一些但是我針對這個比較憂心的現在公務人員超時過勞的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
2994.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
3006.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
那我們可以發現呢這其實很大的一個問題是在制度設計之下那我呼應一下剛才那個黃委員其實也談到好幾個法案其實它一個整體的制度結構會影響到很多所以今天本席要討論的幾項都跟這個有點關係 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
3010.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
3037.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
好 那我在談剛才我們發現公務人員在制度的設計之下會被推向一個勞動跟報酬不太相當的處境甚至已經有點剝削的情形那過往社會對於公務體系常常都有這種穩定準時上下班的一個印象但是我覺得現在已經這種印象已經跟以前很不一樣了那就本席在行政單位的經驗那如果以勞工的方便勞工的一個概念來講事實上我們都不太合格 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
3038.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
3051.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
好所以呢現在情況不同所以很多過勞的案件甚至也有死亡的悲劇那這不是一個個案而是我們可能要了解到它是一個制度性的壓榨機制正在悄然的蔓延 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
3053.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
3074.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
人事總署有訂定一個加班費的管制要點表面上每天加班4個小時上限60小時已經過高但是很令人震驚的是有許多的例外條款形同開啟了一個無限制的加班大門就本席了解有的時候為了辦理專案加班上限會提升到6個小時每個月80小時 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
3076.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
3106.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
那再進一步如果還要再符合急迫且人力難以調度的條件甚至可以連續三天每天加班至14小時那麼再加上行政院核准以後每三個月可達240小時也超過勞基法所設的每三個月不得超過138小時的這個紅線那請問這樣的制度安排是否仍然符合公務人員保障法的精神 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
3107.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
3133.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
謝謝委員給我這個機會說明啦事實上我們有統計過中央跟地方所有公務人員在最近這三年的平均加班時數大概6點6到9點2個小時平均來講那剛才委員提到的那是屬於極端值我舉一個例子像上一年的極端值可能就會像以前我們在文化單位的那種極端值很不平均嘛對吧你們現在是平均值嘛對不對事實上它會有所謂的 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
3135.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3162.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
High ceiling跟那個Low ceiling那個尖峰跟離峰的問題那我剛才就是針對那個委員所提到的你那個極限值三個月加起來240小時這一種譬如像上一年的那一種山東额颱風你在高雄地區的很多的同仁事實上他為了要很快速的去處理這一些上後處理這種情況是可能發生不過這裡我有跟委員報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3163.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3189.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
我們每一個月對 謝謝上次您來拜會的時候我們其實有就這個部分有做一些交流本席這邊要提醒的就是那現在母法僅有規定加班因給予補償但是沒有授權人事主管單位以行政命令的形式將工時擴張超過國際合理的一個勞動標準更遑論制度上還可以容許加班費上限僅有20小時但是這個是最重要的 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3190.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3210.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
其餘以獎勵及考積來報酬這樣子的做法其實是在制度裡面將剝削的一個狀況合理化那這樣子安排會有點挑戰人口販運防治法所禁止的報酬顯不當且非自願性工作那這個可能會成為一個灰色地帶是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3212.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3233.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
人事長你應該做一些研議齁那我們都知道去年無姓員工在100個小時的這個過勞之後呢那也犧牲了一個性命那法院也認為國家應該要負責任那這樣子的檢討我們是不是可以讓更多無姓職員的事情不要在各機關再重演所以這是麻煩 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3234.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3260.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
你們可以好好的演繹當工作時間毫無節制加班常態化也不給予合理的報酬公務體系裡面其實這個工作已經不是一個體面的工作有的時候會被忽視強迫的勞動場域所以這個悲劇發生之後我相信剛才黃委員這邊所講的應該做一個整體制度的討論我這裡跟委員報告一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3261.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3267.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
我們就不要就個案了啦 這兩三年我們是從4.7.8.5通過之後我們每一個月都會針對少數機關少數同仁他加班時數非常不正常而且我們有花文請他說明為什麼要加班這麼久那本席這邊有提醒就是說不要忘記這個獎勵及考積來取代的這個部分是 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3288.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3307.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
我覺得你們應該好好再處理的我同意委員的看法這個是一個重點那最後本席這邊再補充一下因為我要繼續下去下面一個議題整個制度價值的重新校準是不是可以從本席剛才所講的這個內容含義上你們去做一個處理好嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3308.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3334.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
事實上我覺得現在加班很重要的問題是來自於假如可以從業務流程簡化有些事情更不要這樣做因為我們管制性的東西太多假如管制性的東西我們如果要討論業務流程的簡化其實我們還要花時間再去處理業務流程怎麼簡化其實我們要花時間學所以本席講的就是說剛才那種替代性的變成獎勵報酬來替代這個部分請你們了解跟處理好嗎我跟委員報告啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3337.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3352.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
這一個我們也有在控制因為我覺得你有加班一定要加班會給你那個獎勵的事實上是屬於你有上限嘛 你有一些限制結果你就變相的用這款紅色它事實上是屬於極端子的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3353.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3355.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
我們現在會統計如果用計劃加強我們也會行穩給那個機關為什麼我們私下來討論如果針對這點你有問題我們私下來討論好不好好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3373.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3401.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
那另外公務人員的這個出手潮來工時過高那過勞的問題我相信這個已經有很多報導了好那這20年來中央機關將去任務化地方化法人化及委外化的一個改造目標那許多人力都已經轉進了民營化的全國營企業或者是辦官方色彩非常高的研究機構公務人員的這個人數雖然感覺維持在法定範圍內但是非公務人員的 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3403.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3416.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
對不起非公務員的政府職員人數卻繼續上升這背後的現象是人力短缺那你們的調查也顯示2023年行政院所屬機關的缺額是29.5% |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3418.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3435.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
那也就是100人缺了29.5人深入的分析是未運用缺額率也就是不計算在正在申請調動等待國考分發的這個缺額數那中央是這樣地方尤其是那縣市政府呢是缺人 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3435.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3456.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
但是六都是大家流動率過高的一個缺額這已經不是新聞了那麼2022年的數據看來公務人員離職數是2496人六都1558人那離職的總數佔了62.4%那麼除了部分人員被調往中央以外其他很重要的一個問題還是工作量過大 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3457.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3472.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
跟剛才我們講的問題也有點接近所以相較於一般縣市六都的負擔也很大所以人力的短缺也導致工作職場的惡化所有的問題都連帶在一起所以我們這樣子的問題人員配置是否需要做一些調整 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3474.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3491.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
我覺得委員講到一個重點就是會有所謂類似惡性循環的現象因為人進補的速度不夠快工作量沒有做減所以剛才委員的簡報裡面有提到棄任務法棄任務法事實上很重要 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3492.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3514.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
一個氣氛固化 我們事實上在推兩個字啦 兩個減啦一個是減掉的減 另外一個是減化的減當這兩個字有辦法落實的話大家的工作的loading就不會那麼重了謝謝 林市長 我知道就你們行政上或者是機制上你們都希望減可是這個減背後 你會有一些很多的加的東西的代價好 這個請你們內部 就每一個單位 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3517.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3532.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
的工作職司的差異性做一個處理跟討論而不是只是說我怎麼整天你們來做我們就真的減對你們來說是減但是對其他單位可能增加一些不是他們專業可以處理的東西請檢討一下好不好跟一些專業的單位來做一個討論接下來我要為錦霄夜間家層來請命 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3539.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3557.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
那個為基層來做一個處理行政院近期核定6月1號起那警消移民跟這個空中勤務等機關在深夜12點到6點的時候駐外勤務者會知己每小時100元的深夜 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3558.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3572.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
為勞性勤務津貼聽起來好像得贈好像有6.9萬人要受益但是這第一線人的辛勞其實我感覺到還反這個感覺到蠻心傷的基層的反應可以看到這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3573.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3589.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
補貼其實也蠻沒有實質的意義那也顯示出制度上我們還是需要檢討那這個設計的制度呢其實在輪班的公務員形態及勤務的這個風險是不是有將圍牢這兩個字的這個定義好好做一個處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3590.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3603.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
它是單純的形式條件而不是勞動價值的合理衡量許多基層來反映一百塊比超商大業班的時薪還低你們要不要告訴我一下超商大業班的時薪大概多少你們有了解嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3605.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3627.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
大夜班應該大概兩百幾塊吧你如果知道是兩百幾塊,一百塊比較多嘛警消這一類的工作還有一些危牢耶但是我的委員報告,他本身就有薪水喔,那是extra額外再給他的喔那是沒工喔,他那一點鐘兩百幾塊,他就是跟我們捏那兩百幾塊喔你跟我上次的報告說,你是怎麼算的 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3631.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3651.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
這重點就是說,在夜間,那些超商的時薪,你如果要這樣說,我們就來好好算出來,你說因為有薪水,要加班,危險跟加班費,你們覺得只要一百塊就夠了,低於超商,那你如果是這樣的概念,我們就來好好計算。 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3652.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3656.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
其實我幫你補充一下,剛才說的一點鐘加一班,那不是加班,那是正常班正常班我去輪到晚上那段時間,晚上那段時間晚上沒有危險性嗎?沒有危險性,我告訴你,那天起有危險性,我們會整理資料送給委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3672.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3700.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
這就很細的所以本席這邊就跟你說是不是就這一些細節那你們可以去了解一下這些實際的狀況那有沒有相對不公平跟不公義的制度那最後我提醒像這個補貼性對不起你這樣子的這個形式化有點形式化的東西讓機車人會陷入一種補貼性操作的邏輯明明是深夜來值班但是呢如果沒有離開那個地方譬如說我們在櫃台不要說櫃台啦警務所在值班 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3701.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3718.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
蓋起來搬到戶外才叫做危老沒有搬到戶外就不是危老這些定義是不是可以討論一下那補償性風險的制度會變成行政操作的一個漏洞那對津貼過低的這個問題其實沒有真正的解決那請你們回去好好的討論跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3719.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3737.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
我們也會提供一些資料給委員我們就像那天在細節上做一個討論那彼此有一些共識最重要的就是這些專業單位最後我提醒一點剛才黃國昌委員講的公職人員調薪法制化本席這邊也是今天其實本來要提醒我現在鄭重的提醒 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3737.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3761.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
不要讓我們覺得家心都要看氣氛等訊息這次其實是某一些權益我們要看整個社會制度在社會的一個報酬率來講還有社會的一個整理你們必須要好好處理這個問題法治化的這個議題是非常重要在合理的指標下我們應該年年有一些調整那不要 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3761.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3776.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
看氣氛 等消息 感覺有點太多的行政決策干預好不好 麻煩做一個處理好 謝謝 感謝主席謝謝林倩琪林委員 你這國台語雙聲帶不錯 好來接下來我們請吳思堯委員資訊我還說不對 你應該是國台語 你又叫英文 我聽過你三次 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3789.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3793.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
這樣我也來講西班牙文台灣是一個獨立偉大的國家好 謝謝主席 又請總長來 請董事長委員長 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3805.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3825.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
大家早安辛苦了我就以剛剛我說的西班牙文台灣是一個獨立的國家所以軍公教服務國家他負有忠誠義務下一頁那請問一下那個任市長您認為軍公教的忠誠義務是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3830.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3844.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
我這裡跟委員報告一下,我們在西安訓練的,對家庭是大人要友好,對國家要尊重,那是我們西安訓練到盡的,這是核心價值,但是不知道兩岸關係緊張 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3848.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3858.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
就是會發現一些比較遺憾的事件所以我們政府必須要再重申對這個國家的一個忠誠本來這個不是議題的議題啦現在就變成議題就代表他不是議題他應當是前提嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3865.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
3880.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
吳思瑤身為中華民國的國會議員、立法委員我必須對國家忠誠我必須克尊憲法對憲法忠誠我必須福音民意對人民忠誠當然我也要對我們的法治忠誠 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
3881.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
3894.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
所以當我們在參選的時候都填了很多的竊解書拒解書我沒有具雙重國籍的身份我也沒有任何犯罪的前科等等瑞雄大哥在這裡我們這個參選民選的每一次去審查我們登記要 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
3902.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
3927.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
參選厚厚一疊的文件一份一份一字一字讀一頁一頁的簽我拒絕就代表我負責我對於國家有效忠的義務所以剛剛您已經點到了當台灣面對中國這所謂的境外敵對勢力對台灣的步步進逼滲透從軍公教下手已經是 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
3928.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
3945.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
這個境外敵對勢力最容易侵入也是被高度鎖定的一個族群跟對象所以軍公教本來就是前提它不是新生議題喔對於國家的忠誠義務本來就存在我們國籍法20條怎麼規定的 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
3947.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
3965.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
身為中華民國的公務員不得具有雙重國籍雖然在2022年我們有放寬修法但是不是全面開放只是針對特定國家譬如說阿根廷他本身你想有該國國籍是不得放棄的這種極特殊的狀況可以排除否則基本上中華民國的公務人員都不應具有雙重國籍這是國際法的規定嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
3975.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
3990.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
所以說現在因為中國的滲透現在陸委會發聲你們程序部或是人事總處已經進行了公務員的拒絕畏懼中國身份希望透過誠實的申報 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
3992.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
4011.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
然後協助來放棄如果有人有中國身份然後現在是只揭露並不進行裁罰目前是這個三階段對不對就是為了防範國安的漏洞那你們的執行規劃現在進行到什麼樣的狀態二月才上路 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
4014.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
4026.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
我跟委員報告一下,目前各個機關還是在持續填血中,未來我們會持續在精進等於,那表只能用電子化的方式在表這麼簡單,也這麼明顯 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
4029.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
4045.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
歸行娘本人拒絕確實無台灣地區與大陸地區人民關係條例第九條之一所定的情勢並未在中國大陸設有戶籍領用中國大陸護照身份證定居證或居住證 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
4046.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
4057.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
如有不實願負法律責任拒絕人然後基本的職務機關的資訊簡單一點而已你們現在就是鼓勵各個機關誠實來申報跟登載我也相信99.9999%的公務員絕對願意對國家忠誠我們的國家是誰是中華民國是台灣 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
4077.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4085.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
台灣是一個國家所以現有的法規公務人員依法守法更是我們的天職本份現在除了我剛剛講國際法20條兩岸人民關係條例國防法規範軍人 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4093.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4121.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
公務人員任用法第4條第28條都是規範我們的公務同仁以及教育人員任用條例規範的是教育人員法制都有軍公教依法守法這也是天經地義下頁但是很遺憾有人帶頭不拒絕還要去擴散不拒絕是他的權利 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4122.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4145.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
的這種作為人事總署應當以主管機關來表達你們清楚的立場吧如果對於不簽拒絕你們當然目前沒有裁罰啦沒有懲處但是你們如何去鼓勵正向鼓勵或者是你可以有信心八分之九十九點九九九九九大家都願意拒絕 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4148.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4153.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
其實這個問題就像委員說的那樣,大部分、百分之九、九點、九、九、九,那些都沒問題啦極少數的這些人,我們還是會請同仁,問了解他有什麼困難,我們會到三天因為可能他會有其他的一些想法,我覺得...溝通嘛,正向溝通嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4171.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4179.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
那人事總署目前自己因為你要以身作則啊我們人事總署目前的拒絕的狀況會有同仁拒簽嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4180.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4184.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
沒有 我都簽好了都簽好了 完全 百分之百真好 叫你第一名 就用這個進行那是基本的好 這是基本的這樣我們就也把這樣子的正向的誠實登載的義務我們真的要落實在各個部會所有的軍公教對國家忠誠是必然的義務包括立法委員也是下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4206.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4212.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
總預算對於人事總署其實最嚴重你們是重災戶 下一頁這裡有三個預算刪減的設有違憲之處我就不贅述了 下一頁我們來看看人事總署新年度的業務費刪減了3,261萬佔21.69%對不對 這數字正不正確正確 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4236.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4243.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
刪減了兩成二另外還凍結了三千五百三十一萬凍結了三成的業務費看起來都三千多萬 三千多萬沒多啦但是人事總署的業務費全部也不過一億五千零三十三萬換言之凍結了兩成 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4259.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4264.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
對不起 刪減了兩成二 再凍結了三成加起來你們山東合併是51.69%就是52%的業務 賣丁賣黨這樣有嚴重嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4274.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4277.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
我們目前有為了因應這個三節運算我們委外的駕駛還有清潔都有減人所以駕駛跟清潔 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4291.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4300.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
所以也犧牲了一些這些約聘人員的就業機會那我其實當然我們都對於軍公教童人的福利福祉很多機關沒有衛生紙很多機關現在限電連燈光都要調暗我認為對於軍公教童人的服務的環境因為扼山扼洞預算我真的非常的不忍 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4319.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4332.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
對於人事總署我甚至看到因為你們山洞合併打五成二我發現人事總署聯合辦公大樓北洞的辦公室是不是有個辦公室 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4333.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4351.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
我們那裡都有五個機關 英雄剛才是外交部領務局 因為大家說他搬的北棟辦公室 人事總署在今年九月恐怕就要關門 沒有辦法維持正常的運作會影響到民眾的辦公 這是你們回給我的資料還有呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4353.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4358.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
影響人事總署辦理全國人事資訊系統的正常運作恐怕因為預算惡動惡侃導致資安的破口因為人事資料系統這都是大家珍貴的服務履歷大家的個資我也發現我長期要求的我倡議催生的心理健康價正在延逸上路包括對於所有的員工的這些支持方案讓他減壓 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4384.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4409.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
讓他減少他的壓力所以所謂的員工協助方案你們的辦理活動的場次分區訪視都因此要取消或減少這是對於員工的福利受到傷害當然還包括吳斯堯一直要求文康活動不是只有吃吃喝喝我們更要透過文康活動搭配國家政策大家運動 動起來 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4412.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4429.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
搭配國家政策強化參與藝文活動但是這些都因為業務費被併被刪高達五成二而都必須減降或是中止我認為最嚴重的人事總署是重災戶 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4431.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4453.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
我剛剛說這幾件是不是你們目前很頭痛的業務受到影響的?那間房子很久了啦,大家也是盡量在騎在內地騎在內地,所以本來我們有一些文康會到比較遠的地方要租車盡量叫他們去歷史博物館那裡,一天差不多有25個給他們門票這樣而已 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4455.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4474.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
我是這裡勾勒啦去北美館、歷史博物館、台灣博物館都很好但是遠程的對於一些南部的中部原本規劃長期跟我們有合作的藝文長館或是一些民生古蹟或是文化資產就沒有辦法讓我們的公務同仁去透過我們的文康活動 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4475.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4497.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
或者是心理健康支持的協助方案也都沒有去減 沒有辦法減壓所以我順著 我知道人事總署所有的委員問都會問怎麼減壓 怎麼調薪公務人員調薪的法制化 這個會期可能會省到但是很珠西 總預算刪得這麼亂 這麼嚴重公務人員今年加薪3% 還沒有辦法領到人事長 加薪3% 入帳戶了沒 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4504.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4518.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
阿伯嘛希望這個總預算當然現在立法院審閉然後附議失敗了即將就進入這個公告上路但是已經讓我們軍公教同仁等了很久的3%加薪 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4520.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4538.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
已經延遲了現在3月快4月了所以這就是這個國家面對總預算造成的衝擊跟災難大家就辛苦這是辛苦的一年大家努力但是服務國家的熱忱不減我們富有的國家忠誠義務也不會改變大家加油 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4539.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4543.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
首先謝謝主席,我第一次到488自委會有喝到咖啡 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4565.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4566.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
謝謝主席請我們的人事總長請人事長人事長 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4579.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4589.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
人事長早安剛才吼吳世耀委員有特別講到就說現在呢有做這個所謂的忠誠查核那人事長也說應該要做那請問一下我們現在在公務人員相關的法規裡面哪一條有規定公務人員必須去來填登錄這個有關於現在包含陸委會行政院要求的不能夠有大陸這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4607.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4613.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
居住證還什麼這個證那個證的這個登記現在哪一條有相關規定我跟委員報告 經我們恰拉陸委會這是屬於內部管理事項好 所以是內部管理事項我們公務人員這個本來就有所謂的中程相關的規定那裡面包含就是公務人員也要恪守誓言中心 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4635.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4638.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
努力依法律命令所定執行其職務 依法律命令所定所以我要講的是 其實我必須說中華民國是一個法治的國家我們對公務人員要求的忠誠的要求 這是正確的但是我覺得我們還是要有這個法律的精神 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4660.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4665.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
如果法律沒有明定 這個公務人員本來我們就有很多相關的法律他不能夠違法 違法就要去判 違法就要處罰但是呢 以所謂的內部的這個什麼準則啦 或者陸委會的要求我覺得在這個部分 我覺得是有商榷的餘地 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4683.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4692.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
那也就是說如果公務人員他願意去做登錄這是他的自由嘛那如果他不願意登錄說實在你願意登錄的他就不會叛國嗎他就不會當間諜嗎未必吧 對不對所以我覺得在這一部分我覺得不要這樣的一個對公務人員如此的肅殺 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4706.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4714.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
好 另外一個 也是剛才的問題到目前為止我們軍公教今年加薪還沒有領到嘛沒有領到真正的原因過去呢 在今年的年初因為當時的林楚韻委員說說這個軍公教加薪沒有入帳都是因為我們卡總預算但是我當時也提到了因為呢 歷年 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4734.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4758.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
軍公教加薪不是今年才開始 對不對歷年都有加薪 但是呢歷年在立法院的總預算他可能都沒有辦法在12月31號就把它全部的通過所以呢 過去好幾年的這個實施日期有的時候呢 是1月多1月中 有的時候會延遲到2月中當然今年 今年應該創紀錄了啦今年應該是最晚領到 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4762.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4789.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
但是人事總署當時說得非常好因為不要引起我們很多軍公教不必要的恐慌人事總署當時就說啊軍公教加薪要等待總預算通過後回溯發放對不對 這個應該沒有講錯好 那立法院的總預算已經通過了但是呢 因為行政院提出復議案 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4791.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4801.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
那麼立法院在復議案也處理完成了所以在上個星期3月13號立法院已經再次的送出復議案的結果我剛才要講的是總預算在2月19號就送出去了 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4813.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4830.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
但是呢 為什麼沒有辦法這個正式 就是為什麼到現在軍公教仍然拿不到它的調薪的部分呢是因為行政院遲遲沒有送行政那個總統府來公告行政院反而送回給立法院來做復印 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4831.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
4856.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
好 來來回回 你看 又快一個月了那但是呢 我們趕快加緊啊 在法定的期限之內在3月13號把附議案送出 送出到那個 應該現在是總統府要公告所以 基本上 要等總統府公告之後這個軍公教才可以拿到他的條心的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
4857.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
4879.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
有沒有問題 我剛講的都沒有問題吧不是啦 本來就要總統府公告以後我們才能夠繼續往下算每一個人要補多少這是法定的過程嘛 法定的程序啦所以我要講的是 軍公教今年出現歷年來最晚一次才拿到條薪 它當然是回溯 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
4880.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
4889.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
是因為總預算變成一個政治性的操作過去總預算從來沒有拿來付益過 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
4890.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
4902.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
從未拿來附議過那你拿來附議 我們立法院也必須依法去做處理那所以現在也送出了我現在算一下時間 我剛才去了解最晚最晚 總統府應該在這個星期六應該在這個星期六要公告如果不公告的話呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
4914.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
4932.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
就違反法定程序所以在這邊人事長是不是很確定的說只要總統府公告軍公教立刻可以拿到這個就從1我們可以補發回溯發放從1月份開始發放讓軍公教安心啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
4937.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
4950.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
我這裡要跟委員報告一下整個預算案的這一次的預算案事實上對很多機關有造成一些自愛難行的地方你們已經講了半天還有造謠的咧我現在在問你軍公教因為我知道廣大的軍公教很關心這個事情啊在流程上是不是總統府公告之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
4960.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
4967.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
總統府公告之後 我們會發函給各個機關然後各個機關會去試算要補發多少錢就要開始補發了嘛對不對 這都法定程序啊所以我知道 因為星期六就是假日啊我不曉得總統府會不會在明天公告啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
4978.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
4993.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
那所以我要讓所有軍公教安心啊因為呢在立法院裡面的大家的政治攻防事實上這次總預算已經變成了一個不是攻防是政治的鬥爭我剛剛講裡面還有很多的謠言太多的這個部會首長都謠言昨天洪森漢這個勞動部長自己都說我口誤他說什麼育兒今天根本都是錯誤的所以我們要讓所有的軍公教來安心 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
5008.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
5012.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
好 那任市長剩下一點時間 請問一下因為現在立法院 我們還有就是有關於國定假日的修法那當然這個 有問內政部長啦 因為這個是在內政委員會在審查中 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
5025.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
5040.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
那我們都知道 現在台灣的勞工 價比別人少 薪水比別人低我們可以看到 我們鄰近的各個國家日本 韓國 香港 中國 台灣 國定假日 台灣最少 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
5041.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
5045.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
最少只有12天最多的是香港17天萊茲辛斯的排序我們是第44位 只高於中國大陸也比韓國 日本 香港都低 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
5060.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
5078.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
可是人家日本 韓國 香港 他們的國定假日喔 都比我們多所以現在呢 我們說還假於民 好 下一頁而且還假於民呢 也得到很多很多的民眾的支持可以看到將近六成民眾支持所以 任市長 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
5079.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
5098.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
請問您知不支持我們有更多的在這次檢討裡面有提出更多的國定假日不要讓台灣變成嫁比其他國家少這麼多的一個勞工血汗勞工 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
5099.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
5121.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
您支持嗎?我跟委員報告一下,事實上目前國定假日我們是11天,跟新加坡一樣那在立法院在2000年,也就是89年6月30號有做成一個公務人員的每年休假的天數大概115到116,那116是因為論年的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
5122.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
5138.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
所以基本上115的這一個每一年的休假的天數這個在全世界來講相當合理啦啊事實上哪一天我來說其實很重要的就是放假的部分大家都希望多放幾天啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
5140.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5155.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
然後要考慮到各個營業人因為台灣有很多的中小企業的業主他本身的經營的負擔會不會增加很多的面向要同時考量當大家的那一種共識度高的時候我更具體一點問人事長因為這一次修訂裡面當然有很多的假期比如說有教師節 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5161.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5180.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
那個五一那個勞動節啊還有習近平紀念日還有823很多好但是我請問一下因為很多人覺得不要一國兩制所以五一勞動節能夠變成全國性的法定國定假日您同意嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5182.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5195.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
呃 報告委員我不反對這個議題啦嗯 為什麼給我一點時間為什麼不反對就是我今天很精確的問你是五一勞動節變成大家全民放假的國定假日因為每次一個家庭啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5196.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5224.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
那個什麼媽媽是老師 爸爸是那個什麼勞工然後有公務員 哇一個家庭亂七八糟的架這樣子我跟委員報告 我沒反對的原因就是因為節日實施方法在內政部在訂嘛這個禮拜一還有下個禮拜三內政委員會都會開會討論事實上基本上我們會尊重整個內政部的一個放假日的一個規劃 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5226.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5236.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
所以五一勞動節成為法定的假日 國定假日 您同意教師節也變成全國性的國定法定假日 您同意嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5248.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5264.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
委員你現在提到的就是各個族群的問題必須要去綜合考量本來是勞工現在又有教師有九月三號金人節還有各個不同族群的九三金人節沒有放我現在跟你講確實在放假的 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5265.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5289.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
確實在放假的 酒吧教師姐也希望他也放假所以這個問題為什麼大家要一起討論有一個共識再來推因為大家的看法都不太一樣沒關係 我至少知道你這個勞動節變成全體放假你不反對 非常好我予以高度肯定 好不好謝謝王威委員這個議題 要他特別聽到盡 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5294.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5302.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
這個每一年都討論這個議題啦好 謝謝 謝謝王委員接下來我們請省發會委員質詢好 主席我們請任市長有請任市長 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5323.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5332.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
委員長市長早我想這個剛才包括吳思堯委員包括我們黃峰委員都有在關心那在這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5334.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5360.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
今年的2月28日陸委會的新聞稿要求行文我們的主管機關人事總署要求依法宣傳並清查公職人員不得具有中國大陸身分證件這個部分剛才大概都有提到目前我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5362.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5368.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
照陸委會的新聞稿看起來,有關這件事情的主管機關應該就是我們人事總署 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5374.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5392.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
各主管機關都要走,因為華麗的主管機關是陸委會,他是請我們跟權序部發文給所有的有關公務人員不得具有中國大陸身份與證件這個部分的主管機關他提出人事總署、權序部、法務部 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5392.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5416.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
他是請我們轉發給各個行政院所以事實上是透過你們這邊轉發的嗎?對,我們有轉發那剛剛大概都有提到這個是目前採取的方式是以拒絕的方式嘛,對不對?現在就請這個公務員沒有槍沒有罰則就用鼓勵的方式鼓勵,但是是以拒絕的方式來進行那這個事實上 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5421.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5432.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
這個是一個部分但是我們按照公務人員任用法的第四條第四條的第二項有關於這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5435.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5462.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
前項人員就是公務人員各機關任用公務人員的品德忠誠還有各機關任用辦理查核這個必要時得洽請有關機關協助辦理其涉及國家安全或重大利益者得辦理特殊查核有關這個特殊查核他另外另訂這個辦法就是涉及國家安全或重大利益公務人員的特殊查核辦法這個主管單位是我們人事總署對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5465.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5481.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
我們會選考試院但是這個法令的主管機關就是我們人事總署對不對是我們總署沒有錯這個法令的主管機關當然不是你們獨立完成的你們必須要跟...這你們都要配合 我知道了但是主管機關有關社區國家安全跟重大 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5489.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5503.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
利益的公務員的特殊查核是由我們人事總署主管剛才所講的拒絕的方式跟我現在講的有關國家安全重大利益的特殊查核辦法 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5506.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5531.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
有什麼不一樣大概從90幾年我們現在整個特殊查核大概改過17次了因為每一年我們在review看有沒有哪些對象要新增加剛才委員所提的像外交國防跟國家安全有關的相關的機關因為會有所謂的新增加的這些機關進來那每一年我們都會跟考試院同時在檢討 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5532.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5532.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
簡單講,剛才這個拒絕的這些部分,這個是普查 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5536.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5565.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
但是這個特殊查核這個是這個是特殊查核對不對 這針對特定人特殊查核基本上機關收到 戶收到 跟他的秘書有限定對象 不計啦 不計你這個辦法裡面有一個附表附表裡面有什麼人 哪一些人去接受這個特殊查核你列了一清二楚一一就不會遭到什麼 不說沒有任何模糊空間你只要列在附表裡面 它不是普查 它就不普查你就是 所以不公嘛不公 那兩個完全不公所以他們的法令的依據也不一樣嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5567.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5594.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
剛才王偉有提到說這個進行這樣子的現在目前要求公職人員不得具有中國大陸身份證件這個部分他的法源依據也不一樣啦都是公務員任用法但是一個是剛剛我想這個特殊查核有關國家安全重大利益的這是根據公務員任用法的第四條但是有關於不得具有中國大陸身份的這個是依照 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5596.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5596.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
公務人員用法的第26條 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5599.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5626.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
的第一項他說有下列情勢之一者不得為公務人員其中的第一款就是未具有未具或喪失中華民國國籍這一條還有這個第二款的這個具中華民國國籍兼具外國國籍但本法另有規定以及你剛剛所講的兩岸人民關係條例這個是不同的法源對不對所以他事實上是有法源依據他不是沒有法源依據對不對進行這樣子的清查是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5627.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5634.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
清查這公務人員到底有沒有具有外國國籍是不是具有其他國家的身份證件這個是有法源依據的對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5636.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5662.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
當我們進到公務員服務的時候都是規定都很明確啦就不能有雙重國籍的相關規定這個就是法律依據我剛剛唸的嘛我不用再唸一次嘛公務員任用法跟兩岸人民關係條裡面都有明確的規範嘛所以它是有法律依據它不是沒有法律依據的這個要在這邊讓社會跟所有公務員了解這是有法律依據的這不是說什麼不符合法律保留原則這個是有法律依據的對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5663.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
5674.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
那這個我現在就這個剛剛我們談到這個涉及國際安全跟重大利益的這個公務人員的特殊查核齁針對這個剛才你也有提到齁提到說這個這個特殊查核改了多少次17改啦其實改的是副表對不對這副表裡面的我這邊齁有統計我們這個這個歷年來齁有修正這個副表的部分齁這個這個刪除齁從 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
5691.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
5715.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
我看有從到現在目前應該要這個各機關辦理特殊查核植物一覽表這一覽表裡面從這個民國96年到去年113年12月3號做最後一次的修訂那這個植物的這個必須要接受這個特殊查核植物的總數從 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
5717.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
5737.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
從1099人到最後一次修正到1328人對不對1328個現在目前的公務人員裡面就1328個人必須接受這個這個特殊特殊查核對特殊查核那裡面有增有減啊有的增到新增100人但是刪除51個人有的有每一次修改都有新增都有刪除 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
5738.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
5761.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
那這個我就是想了解 請問這個人事長這樣子的這個調整他每一次修改調整的發動機關是誰是我們人事總署認為需要調整嗎還是哪一個機關謝謝委員給我這個機會這個是每一個機關他自己提出來自己提出來他有進場跟退場 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
5761.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
5776.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
那什麼時候我們什麼時候每一個機關可能我今天覺得這樣子那下一個機關是後天覺得這樣子再下一個機關是下個月覺得這樣子我們不可能每天調整啊我們都有一定的一個調整機制到底我們怎麼決定什麼時候要做一次的調整 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
5777.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
5794.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
一般來說 有配合組織調整 那就是調整進場退場機制是密度最高的只要有組織調整 組織調整組織調整之後 一定要再做review 看看哪些職位最後一次113年12月3號是什麼原因調整 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
5804.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
5805.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
那個是關鍵基礎設施關鍵基礎設施的調整那這個我其實 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
5814.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
5835.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
比起剛剛所講的拒絕的部分更關心這個國家安全跟特殊重大利益的這個特殊查核這個部分希望說我們這個人事行政總署能夠確實的督促各機關確實辦理那也希望說能夠你們要確實掌握這樣子的查核內容好不好那接下來 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
5836.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
5844.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
接下來的時間我從去年的9月30日跟11月10日都有兩度質詢都有提到有關於目前我們所強調的AI內閣有關於我們要讓台灣成為AI智慧島我們公務人員到相關的這些授訊的問題那時候都有跟人事長請教 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
5862.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
5879.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
那時候去年9月30我就提出三點要求第一點就是我們AI計畫的成效要定期盤點另外第二個就是說我們AI要列為公務人員的學習的必修課程第三就是AI要納入115年原額評鑑這三個要求裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
5884.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
5901.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
有關這個我在這邊要先肯定我們我們這個人事總署基本上這三個要求基本上都有開始著手在做有的已經確實進行了有關這個AI計畫成效的定期盤點我這個有看到你們在這個公務 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
5902.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
5919.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
人力發展學院的官網上面你們確實有公告有關AI智能訓練的成果每一季、按季有公開這是第一個給你們肯定第二個有關於AI列為公務學習必修現在是不是已經列為必修了 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
5920.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
5932.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
去年11月已經有把它加入必修了這個部分我也很高興你們能夠接受本席的建議第三個有關於AI納入115年緣和評鑑的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
5937.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
5962.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
我看這個你們這個115年實施的這個115年辦理所屬二級機關聯合評鑑計畫已經有納入這個AI的公務人力的部分這部分我也基本上可以肯定但是我想進一步瞭解因為我時間到了我再第一個瞭解有關於我們AI這個推動實務種子人員課程去年只辦一期總共36個科長參加對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
5967.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
5973.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
啊有三個拿到...為什麼有三個拿不到?啊?為什麼有三個拿不到?啊表示這個課期不是說有機課就可以課就是真的課36個,課到36個啊大家很認真啊啊那時候你有說今年要辦六期嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
5984.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
5993.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
五期都總共一百八十萬,從後五月開始辦你剛才說六期,現在就減一年了,變五期了人家是參與意願的問題嗎?經費啦喔經費喔,叫國民黨抬議啦那就經費比較不夠所以你本來要辦六期,現在變成五期嘛五期這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
6010.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
6011.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
現在你剛才說36個,有33個拿到這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
6016.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
6036.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
AI的認證啦 AI專業認證啦齁但是事實上我們現在國家並沒有這個AI專業認證的執照對不對 制度目前AI專業制度 這個是你們自己設計的沒有沒有 我們請他到AIA人工智慧學校去拿的人工智慧學校AI人工智慧學校去拿但是他並不是國家認證的一個專業證照嘛那我們自己有沒有打算要建立我們公務人員自己AI的認證體系 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
6046.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
6061.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
這部分我會跟樹化部那個黃部長再來討論看看跟國科會啦要跟國科會你們已經有跟國科會申請AI政府經費有跟他申請你們要求他們做這個發展計畫我找人比你清楚你們已經有拜託國科會 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
6062.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
6079.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
去做這個AI政府領航人員發展計畫裡面要規劃建立你們公務人員AI的認證體系那我這個部分我是希望說能夠你們國科會 以我了解國科會到現在還沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
6080.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
6096.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
進行還沒開始進行啦齁那這部分我希望我們人事總署能夠再進一步再push國科會齁我們盡快的把一個公務機關裡面AI人才認證的這個機制齁趕快把它建立起來好不好好好謝謝謝謝人事長好謝謝委員好謝謝審發會委員接下來請羅志強委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6109.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6132.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
主席有請人事長請人事長委員長人事長我今天要給你肯定喔你知道肯定什麼事嗎我告訴你喔因為我剛剛聽你跟王宏威在詢答的過程當中你說這個我們把五一齁這個恢復放假齁勞動節恢復放假你也不反對嘛對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6134.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6157.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
不反對非常謝謝這是一個open discussion的一個場地人事長用這個開放的態度我希望我們民進黨的中央政府能夠效法你為什麼呢我想請教一下我們台灣有很多的驕傲嘛對不對我不知道人事長知道我們的公使也是在世界上算是非常驕傲的成績你知道吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6158.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6176.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
我覺得還好 按照我們的統計資料台灣高工時 世界都在看有些事情我們拚第一名那是叫做世界都開心 台灣人也開心但我有一個拚第一名 第二名叫國恥 是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6178.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6192.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
就是工時啊 沒錯吧如果我們工時今天拚到讓世界都看到的話我跟人事長講那真的就是我們今天政府要好好去思考我們蔡英文總統有一個名言你聽過吧勞工是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6197.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6210.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
對啦勞工是心理最軟的一塊不要變勞工變成肝臟最硬的一塊吧對不對所以今天我跟各位說我國的工時高居世界主要各國第五高 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6211.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6226.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
在亞洲我們也很驕傲我們只輸給新加坡所以再努力一點賣肝把自己打造成所謂的肝硬化國家的話我們就可以贏過新加坡你希望我們的工時高過新加坡嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6226.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6226.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
希望不希望? |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6226.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6227.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
人事長 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6228.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6241.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
我覺得提升國家整體競爭力的一個要素不見得只有靠增加工時啦當然啦 所以非常謝謝任市長你在這個體量上 我跟大家說跟任市長講啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6244.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6261.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
今天國民黨我們提出還價於民還價於 恢復國定價大概恢復幾天社會大眾可以共同討論可是今天如果說我們今天的工時排行是全世界 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6262.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6287.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
最後一名 亞洲最後一名就是我們工時是最低的啦那我跟你講 那今天我們提還價於民我就覺得一點正當性都沒有因為台灣的工時就是最低的嘛 那還要還價於民可是現在不是啊現在我們其實現代化的國家非常強調的勞工權益除了薪資問題以外就是什麼問題就是什麼問題 請問人事長 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6291.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6314.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
你說超時加班的問題對嘛 就是不要再乾硬化的問題嘛對不對 就是放假的問題嘛所以我跟任市長說我謝謝你今天的態度是對五一勞動節放假的不否定啦對不對 沒錯吧就是需要大家一起討論的啦那我請任市長這邊告訴大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6316.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6334.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
肯定一點好不好 五一勞動節勞工值不值得這個假值不值得五一勞動節勞工一定在放假我說我們今天公務員啦 我講的是公務員啦變國定假日可以嗎因為這個議題說真的齁 那再問你教師節嘛好不好可不可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6335.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6358.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
我覺得這些議題都可以提出來討論我回頭告訴你 當然我必須講 對哪一天放假我沒有什麼太大的意見堅持我覺得哪一天放假是讓人民共同來決定 對不對 沒錯吧可是呢 但是我們政府本身先要把政策立場開放出來 沒錯吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6359.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6384.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
現在目前我想請教一下我舉個例子 你看東京都嘛東京都政府他現在研議要開放職員週休三日從2025年4月1號起然後東京都政府會改變彈性工時制的運用讓職員每週可以多休一個平日那當然看起來台灣現在可能還很遙遠 這是研議啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6385.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6410.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
那我接下來想請教一下就是說我們剛剛講就是還價移民的這件事情我想請問人事行政總署有沒有針對這個題目已經開始進行內部討論了有沒有還價移民的主體應該是勞動部那些有經貸的客戶人事行政總署我覺得你們剛剛你的意見很好嘛那我想請問有沒有跟我們的勞動部一起來討論匯商這件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6415.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6426.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
當然那個放假日的我們一定會找教育部還有勞動部大家一起來討論甚至金管會我們也一起來討論非常好嘛但是當然你要講說你是主管公務人員嘛對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6427.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6448.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
公務人員我跟委員報告我們現在已經有還算不錯的一個彈性上下班當然我知道你要講我還是回到原始的問題當然我們的工時我也必須肯定經過歷任政府的努力工時是有在縮少減少對不對沒錯吧可是全世界也在減少 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6449.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6470.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
不是嗎所以我們才會維持到高工時變成是說世界亞洲第二名這才是我今天講的根本我不知道你今天人事長你認不認同我今天就跟你說如果台灣今天的工時是亞洲這個最低第二低第三低那我跟你講還價於民說真的我就覺得沒有底氣沒錯吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6472.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6487.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
如果我們工時就已經很低了可是現狀就不是嘛所以我跟任市長說齁我還是拜託你啦就是說我今天肯定你就說剛剛我看王洪輝講你馬上講你也不否定這個態度是正確的但是還不夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6489.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
6515.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
想想勞工是我們民進黨我們的以前蔡英文總統說心中最軟的一塊那你就應該在這件事情態度上能夠讓往更前面走一步那我們人事總署如果態度積極一點你就可以跟勞動部再做更多的會商啊其實勞動部要比你更軟對勞工更軟才對啦 對不對他是業管主管單位嘛我也會去問勞動部啦但是我先問問人事長嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
6517.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
6544.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
所以我要跟人事長說你這個所謂的開放的態度我覺得很好但是還不夠你應該以我們今天人事總長的身份人事長的身份來跟我們的政府多多督促希望能夠讓我們的勞工讓我們的工時這個世界第二高亞洲第二高這個汙名能夠在你跟勞動部的努力之下把它解除掉好不好 拜託 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
6545.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
6562.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
我跟委員報告 事實上我現在在思考的就是在既有的遊戲規則裡面增加 就鼓勵公務人員去休假就是來降低他的working hours您用了很多的方法 很多的努力公時就亞洲第二高 世界第五高啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
6563.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
6587.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
那這個是我們今天面臨最大的問題最後我也不為難你啦你還是要遵從整個中央政府的意見但至少我今天聽到的就是希望滿滿啊我看你態度很開放啊沒有很強硬說啊今天我就反對啊 對不對所以至少這個態度是一個好的起點我們也會繼續努力啦然後去跟我們的執政政府協調請我們的中央政府真的把勞工當作真正 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
6587.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
6597.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
心中最軟的一塊不要讓大家加班加到肝硬化那接下來我想請教您人事長去年我們也差不多這時間在這裡3月27號你記得你當時承諾我什麼事情嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
6603.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
6617.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
考你記憶不對啦不能這樣考你我直接說啦你說你非常認同我的建議就是我們今天這個公務員調心法治化你會在年底前來提出現在年底過了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
6620.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
6637.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
我該做的努力 我已經做了 我等你十年了你不能只有努力啦 任市長你去年你都跳我票不是啊 行政院有它固定的一個行政程序啊 什麼案子要排列我跟妳講 任市長我先跟妳講齁我不否定你的努力啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
6638.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
6654.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
但是你也知道今天又不是說今天學生考試在看成績今天政府執政的努力是要看成果的嘛成績可能是個人的我今天考得好考不好是我個人的事情可是你的成果攸關的就是國家 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
6655.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
6678.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
所以我跟你講 我沒有說今天要苛責你啦可是說你去年給我期待滿滿 你跟我講我在去年3月質詢你的時候 你跟我講年底就會來做法治化我當然就想 那太好了 我就覺得很受振奮嘛可是到年底我就看沒有啊那你當然我知道 你說你很努力那中央政府不努力也不能完全怪你啊 不是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
6679.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
6695.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
對啦 我就跟委員講 我就跟你講 中年年底 我的課程高起老師 教授當時要拋分數 我不知道你的教授真的是變大啦沒有啦 教授他有的考慮啦你那個中央政府教授變大啦那我想請教我們人事長 你可以再努力一點喔請那個教授不要再睡了啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
6703.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
6731.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
年底前把那個考卷批出來好不好再給你一個年底好不好你去年三月跟我講年底今年三月我再跟你講年底可以嗎可不可以其實我跟委員報告啦我三不五辭都去拜託啦我都有在持續做這件事情因為行政院他面對的這個法案的數量也非常多他有固定的一個排審在處理啦好謝謝謝謝任市長啦所以拜託任市長 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
6732.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
6745.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
我們一起努力一下好不好謝謝你謝謝羅志強委員光晚跟你說 欽佩你 認同你 你也相信你實在是接下來我們請王逸川委員質詢主席 請人事長 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
6761.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
6777.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
請人事長委員長人事長好請教幾個問題,中華民國公務員有反共的責任跟義務嗎?人是合不在用反共啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
6778.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
6791.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
只是說我們在政府我們要到公部門服務的時候都會簽一些切結書不能有雙重國籍的你會開始做公務人員的時候政府會叫你反共以前是用法的啦這沒規定就對了反共已經五六十年了所以中華民國的公務人員沒一定要反共 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
6807.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
6811.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
第二 中華民國公務員可不可以主張武統武力統一台灣這一點肯定不行那中華民國公務員可不可以主張統一台灣 中國統一台灣那違反了我們最上位的一個原則中華民國公務員不可以主張中國統一台灣 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
6837.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
6860.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
不可以那中華民國公務員可不可以有中華人民共和國的身份證不可以那可不可以有中華人民共和國的居住證那都不可以那可不可以有中華人民共和國的台胞證台胞證不可以台胞證不可以好我怕你說錯了 你靠我聽也沒關係 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
6862.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
6880.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
因為你這講的都...你人事長你也說不出口中華民國公務員可不可以每個禮拜六禮拜天都去中國?應該是沒有這個限制因為你看金門媽祖的日子 今天他有時都會過去他如果請假請試假 他沒有說他要出國 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
6887.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
6910.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
五六日一 禮拜五禮拜一都請假請試假 早去中國 這樣可以嗎要先請啊 也有去台六就要先請啊那你來看你的指定啦 有些還要核准啦請假的室友所以中華民國公務人員禮拜六禮拜天可不可以去中國不用請假 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
6915.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
6925.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
應該去大陸市都要申請啦照你講是這樣啊如果你的擔任的職務是比較敏感的我沒有說職務,我就說公務人員照移民署的規定是都要的啦中港澳都要喔?香港澳門都可以,都要喔?所以你如果說金門的金門管政府的人員 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
6945.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
6949.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
所以拜託你問一下移民署管理的機制是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
6967.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
6979.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
因為7月規定要對不對 有人遭遇對不對 沒有申請嘛他就護照卡 台胞證卡 他就捨棄了嘛捨棄了 我們的中華民國政府都不知道我們只知道他出國而已嘛離境嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
6988.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
6997.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
他電子通關他就出去了嘛他公務員他職等不高 他也不用申請啊他也不用跟政府說啊 還是怎麼樣啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
7005.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
7018.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
他給地方政府,他一定要地方政府授權,他也同意他就可以上去他都沒說啦?都沒說?都沒說是有這個規定啦,有這個規定不行啦那你還要怎樣?一定有相關的法則啊那警察咧?都收工啦,警察原來是要檢修的問題啊所以如果檢紀要上班? |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
7033.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
7041.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
查證屬實,他所屬的副機關,他就要請陳熙簽辦上來啊好,就他所屬的副機關簽辦上來,阿最重要的怎樣阿最重要的就不知道他是去做什麼事情,他很久沒來啊沒有,他就去這套啦,他去這套啦他就很愛拜六星期去A夢這套,我們不行 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
7057.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
7062.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
這種那有兩種情形啦,一種是偶遇為之,一種是每天一百出去的這兩種法則當然就不一樣了 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
7069.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
7079.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
所以這種法者的情況,就是他的情境上事實上不一樣這條我看你再向公務人員宣導一下因為我問你,你看起來也是這樣,是又不是,旁邊又站三個,改成可以又不行我問的地方很清楚,我沒有什麼陷阱給你挑 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7090.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7111.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
好不好 這說中華民國公務員跑去中國 跑去香港 跑去澳門一般公務員喔 不要說只等喔他可不可以不讓中華民國政府知道他跑去哪裡意思就是他都沒行情啦 他都沒行情那如果他沒申請被人家檢舉 他會發生什麼事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7115.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7144.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
要出去喔 要出去逮捕 要不然申請的 一定要有懲處行政機關本來就要懲處啊 去日本的 覺得跟中華民國政府講你 要有出境啊 你也要跟你服務的機關申請啊差不多一星期啦學校啊公務員的我們就要請假 請假也是有 就是看你要去哪裡六日啦 六日啦六日去日本喔 去小琉球這樣喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7148.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7165.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
好啦好啦,那些有的我了解一下,有意願報告啦這沒有啦,這大家都會當場的那第二個,請問一下如果有公務員被傷掉,現有的服務機關可不可以拒絕? |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7168.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7186.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
目前是雙方要去協商,現在我們同時也跟全序部在討論就是當事人申請你服務機關,你目前的服務機關不能禁止目前我們有跟全序部在討論這個議題阿大概,全序部是反對的阿?沒有啦,他沒有反對阿 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7188.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7196.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
因為我以前在地方做局處長的時候,我也回到這個地方我的同事要去用吊罩,他要用吊罩代表他已經去百合都扣掉了扣掉之後,那個單位就寫一張牌說要把他吊罩了 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7208.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7218.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
所以我可以觀念說要給他照不該給他照 這個權力很大機關修長有這個權沒有不對 但是一種是給他照一種不該給他照 另外一種做辦法的有的可以照 幫人家拿去 對方不可能單於幫他當不是要這種的 陷我們原機關首長不義你知道嗎因為要不然我照了機關就照來了 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7232.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7242.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
說阿腳丟人家就要照你就不可以照我說阿不然他就很優秀我就不想要他照阿不要啦人家瘋了你就不可以照一個議員來講 兩個議員來講這制度上變成我有採樣權那你就會陷這個首長於不義啊機關首長的誘人權你不可以說因為喔這位優秀的你為什麼要留下來啊你不希望他照啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7256.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7259.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
接下來工程人員的專業家級就是那個表期的這些適用這個表期的人員最近有沒有在檢討 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
7281.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
7299.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
有政治專業加級,還有酒流獎金,還有一個工程獎金,這三個都有提起嗎?沒有,我們提起的是適用的人員適用的人員也有改變啦,有報告交通方面的...交通什麼公共行政?交通技術有沒有納入?交通技術,有了吧? |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
7309.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
7312.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
有,這個有交流來,有交流來,因為最近喔,中年到近 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
7313.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
7338.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
最近因為我們地方很多交通的專業人員他們是交通技術的他們其實跟那個土木啊其實做的事情是一樣的那他們沒有這一項可以用到表期就這個專業家籍這一塊建議你們把他納進去工程機關他不是工程機關他是一般的機關 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
7342.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
7363.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
報告委員 我們工程機關的要件已經把交通技術執行納進來我們調查地方政府的交通機關 目前都有符合這個要件最後一個 我們公務員考試考上以後 大家都想要到中央部會所以就會發生一種很詭異的事情 就是他剛考上就到交通部了 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
7364.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
7381.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
然後他派去地方視察的時候,來都長官嘛然後去到市政府、去到公所啊,他被長官你知道嗎?結果他今天做公務員,做兩年啊,一段時間在市政府、管政府、公所都被他直升,都被他學長結果他會指導這些學長,你覺得這個制度對不對? |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
7387.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
7408.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
這個問題我委員報告 剛才我們有跟專屬部在討論地方有些值等要去做調整 有人不在進行目前應該有機會在六月底以前會在某些區塊會有一些明顯的一個調整不然的時候會發生一些很詭異的事情 看考上的變長官 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
7413.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
7439.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
然後這個坐在下面的很吱聲但是因為他是中央來的所以呢就是這很奇怪這檢討一下好不好好謝謝好謝謝王一川委員那接下來我們請最美麗的翁曉琳委員質詢我這不理會把你們額落一下Q&A都太壞了那個翁曉琳委員質詢完以後我們先休息五分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
7442.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
7457.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
很高興今天聽到主席稱讚我實不敢當立法院美麗又有智慧的女委員非常多我可能還稱不上不過接下來要請任市長 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
7457.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
7483.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
請人事長不要騙他來的洗禮委員長我看朝偉也是實話實說吧喔是是哇這個人事長這樣一說害我都不好意思接下來要怎麼問您問題了好那首先我想就是接續的剛剛王一川委員的問題就是到底公務人員去大陸人事總署之前有沒有規定相關的SOP程序有嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
7487.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
7510.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
離開台灣的這個遊戲規則是在內政部移民署上有一些相關規定那我們會把這個資料會後再提供給委員參考任市長我剛很快的google了一下其實你們人事總書之前就有做過那個PPT啦簡報宣導的什麼公務人員赴大陸偏分成11值等以上跟11值等以下 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
7512.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
7538.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
對,十一值等以上嘛,受到比較嚴...十值等以上也沒關係,十值等以上就受到比較嚴格的管制十值等以下就比較沒有,就是一般的報備就可以了那現在關鍵點就是說,到底請假,就是利用自己的休假時間去大陸要不要報備?只要去大陸,不管你是用休假還是公假都要申請 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
7539.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
7544.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
都要申請報備嘛基本上報備的這個概念所以這個是現在就有的規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
7546.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
7571.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
對 那剛剛王議員 王一川委員他問的這樣的問題顯然是好像沒有做功課所以實際上我們都有在做了我不知道是不是現在已經是有人就違反相關的規定那麼如果說陸委會 移民署或是相關的機關有查到公務人員沒有報備沒有經過許可就去大陸那就把相關處罰案例拿出來講否則的話我覺得這樣刁難任市長我覺得並不公平 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
7574.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
7596.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
那接下來我也想請教的這個問題就是人事長您有注意到在3月17號警察院他有做了一個報告就說現在有他們有發現高階公務人員辭職又轉任政務官或者是他短期回任到事務官那之後又再 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
7597.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
7616.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
復回去擔任政務官的這樣子的一個情況屢見不鮮而在近期他們有發現就是在監察院的報告裡面有發現大概累積地方政府還有中央政府的案例大概有11件 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
7617.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
7643.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
相關的情況都是政務官短期轉任成務文官再回任到原來的政務職務請問任市長為什麼會有這樣的問題出現我跟委員報告事實上他們這樣操作是符合規定的啦符合規定只是說他這一種轉換的時間太短因為像 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
7644.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
7665.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
舉一個例子啦像明年有些縣市首長已經兩任任期到了那有些蠻優秀的公務人員本來是11職等他現在當政務官嘛那如果明年年底之後他那個縣市長下來以後這個級數首長沒有繼續留任他只能夠領到11職等為了等於 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
7669.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
7693.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
退休以後對這些長任文官轉政務官的給他比較好的一些待遇他們會去做轉換的動作但是說這個時間太長大家觀感不好啦你如果有半年或者一年大家是覺得還比較OK因為有些是一天或一個禮拜就轉大家的那種觀感一定是不好的 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
7694.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
7713.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
市長您很清楚這樣的問題而且這個優秀的事務官去戒掉去當政務官之後政務官可能因為首長離開或是首長另有考量那政務官又短暫的離開之後又回到事務官或是又再 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
7715.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
7731.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
這個政務官這涉及到公務員他本身的續薪的問題他的資歷年資甚至有些退休公務員已經借齡退休像去年防部次長陳明堂就是這樣的一個例子因為他已經要借齡退休了 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
7733.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
7749.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
那他又必須要辭職 辭職之後又回去當事務官然後11天之後又再被聘為次長歷史這個問題已經長期都存在在我們的公務體系人事總長這個問題沒有辦法解決嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
7752.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
7778.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
我認為說你們也失職應該要想辦法去解決這個問題明明就是從多年來這個案例屢見不鮮而且我們現在沒有修法或是人事總處這裡沒有態度要透過怎麼樣行政解釋去讓這些事務官們可以很順利的也銜接他們的年資或他們的續薪等級不要說一定要回到原單位才退休 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
7781.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
7799.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
我想我這裡大概可以承諾委員我們再來跟前序部來討論看這個事情要如何比較圓滿的來解決因為事實上現在我理解的就有幾個縣市的高階文官現在是政務官可是他的職等就是11職等 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
7800.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
7828.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
他在那個機關服務5到6年你看這樣的一個年資對之前他們到地方政府服務的對他們來講是相對不公平好OK那接下來我還要進入到另外一個話題就是剛剛其實有些委員有在問了就軍公教條新法制化那麼也知道就是人事總處這裡已經提出了軍公教人員待遇調整條例草案那麼本席其實已經將 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
7829.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
7853.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
人事長這邊所提出的這個條例草案有拜讀過你們大概訂定了有七條那裡面有些部分是我感到有疑問的在這邊請教你們這次將在這個條例草案裡面有一個部分就是要未來要成立一個軍公教人員的年度通案待遇調整諮詢會議可是在你們諮詢會議裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
7855.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
7879.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
所未來規劃能夠成為諮詢委員的部分譬如說除了人事總長您還有副人事長之外中央機關代表七人地方機關代表四人現職公教人員代表四人專家學者四人就這樣子的一個規劃本席好奇的是你地方機關代表四人你怎麼產生現職公教人員代表四人你怎麼產生 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
7883.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
7912.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
我們現在地方機關我們有22個縣市對我們會報告委員我們那個地方政府的部分我們會輪流就是說比如說直轄市跟縣市的部分我們會分別就是每一屆的委員所以22個縣市你要輪流幾次才會輪到目前都是用目前中央教待遇審議委員會也是這種機制就是說地方所以這樣的制度是不合理的啊不是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
7914.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
7936.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
所以有可能都是先從民進黨政府執政的縣市先輪不會不會像現在桃園跟台東關我們會有直轄市還有一般的16個縣市的像台東的還有桃園的我們一般來講我們會注意到這個橫平性 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
7938.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
7956.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
是啦我要提醒你們就說是這樣子的安排基本上不是很合理而且是由你們人事總署自己去指定哪些地方機關可以去推派代表除此之外現職公教人員代表四人我們現在台灣有多少的公務員有多少的公教人員 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
7958.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
7985.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
然後你要怎麼樣去領選這四位公教人員報告委員我們那個縣職公教人員代表是由那個全國工人協會跟中華民國全國教師會各推派兩人因為他們都屬於全國性的一個協會一個團體所以會由這兩個團體分別指派兩位代表來參與那你如果是這樣的話應該是說是不是就應該是說是由這個公教人員的相關組織來推派 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
7987.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
7992.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
是不是 坦白說這公務人員協會 它是公會嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
7994.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
8020.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
他是協會嘛 他不是工會嘛剛剛羅志強委員有講我們現在台灣是一個有全世界的驕傲就是我們的工時很長我這邊要跟任市長講台灣另外一個全世界的驕傲就是我們公教人員被政府管得死死的尤其是公務人員到現在為止全世界沒有公務人員 工會的就只有台灣 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
8023.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
8039.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
大部分國家都沒有 如果有的話大概英國有而已美國自由之家社就已經說了全世界唯一沒有公務人員公會的國家就是中華民國 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
8044.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
8057.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
連現在對岸中國大陸他們都有公文人員公會但是我們沒有所以這個就是一個很嚴重的問題啊我們公文人員不能組公會以至於政府要我們簽拒絕簽這個忠誠切結書我們就得簽會不會是翻譯的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
8064.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
8088.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
他不是公會而是協會政府機關我們公務人員都有協會法尤其這一次的協會法也有做一些換官我要說的是我們總是要向西方新進國家學習請您告訴我日本韓國歐盟這些國家美國有哪些國家是沒有公務人員公會的 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
8090.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
8114.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
我們會後提供給委員我們手上有資料人事長你覺得公務人員該不該有工會我個人是覺得現在公務人員協議法你支持公務人員有工會我是支持公務人員協會對於工會的話因為我們還有一些疑慮而且公務人員的公會本身他是公務人員你今天在政府機關服務是有 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
8116.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
8140.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
按照那個法律的國家法律的義務責任跟一般的工會他的規定不一樣請問一般的勞工不需要依法嗎他不需要遵守現行的教師法嗎用的法律不一樣用的法律不同啊教師要遵守教師法公務人員要遵守公務人員法就公務人員來講他的雇主就是國家就是政府我講白一點啦我如果是 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
8142.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
8164.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
我要主公會他的訴求就是要罷工嗎?民眾對政府公務人員的罷工大家支持嗎?這個問題我覺得是核心的問題要先討論如果民眾對公務人員罷工這個議題有意見的話我覺得這個政策還是先在公務人員身上其實人事長我覺得您的觀念是落伍的 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
8165.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
8191.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
產住資工會不是只有罷工包含勞資協商包含權益的福利等等這些都可以現在協會基本上它這個功效不彰而且如果你認為協會就有為什麼不能夠直接就是定在工會法裡面啊你要弄了一個特別的公務人員協會所以這個就是一個根本的觀念我們現在已經進入到21世紀 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
8194.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
8215.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
我們台灣應該要像我們在尤其是在公務員的體制法制方面要向先進國家學習否則公務人員永遠被政府吃死死管死死不會喔所以是 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
8216.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
8235.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
所以任市長你不知道最近因為這個你們也配合陸委會要求大家要填公教人員要填這個忠誠切結書這件事情你不知道基層有反彈嗎非常少數為什麼不敢 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
8241.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
8260.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
是 我同意你這句話對卓家忠誠問題沒有打折的空間所以到底現在我們的政府是抓到有幾個公教人員是違反國安法 違反反滲透法的填這樣的一個忠誠切結書就能夠表示我沒有所以誠實申報 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
8270.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
8298.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
是誠實申報,你的誠實申報不然你就定在法律裡面啊現在相關規定已經有了相關規定有規定在哪裡?有規定在哪裡?兩岸關係條例兩岸關係條例沒有要求大家要誠實申報啊所以我的意思是講說,這個其實就是涉及到人事長您對於公教人員的地位、權益、尊嚴的一個態度、一個觀念、想法 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
8299.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
8328.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
我現在我完全支持我們政府如果說有查到任何的公務人員違反兩岸關係條例違反反滲透法、國安法或是國家精密保護法要嚴懲但是這是屬於政府機關自己要依法行政依職權去調查而不是叫大家全部都來簽竊結書現在我還只是針對公教人員現在已經擴大到所有的國營事業那下一個階段呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
8328.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
8335.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
是不是所有的企業勞工全部大家都要填最後是每個人以後都要自己申報 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
8337.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
8352.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
我跟委員報告一件事情這就像銀行叫我們要填個人資料保護的相關的先告那個觀念一樣不要把它變成一個汙名化它就是我不是說要汙名化我現在意思是講說任市長你要從根本的怎麼樣去維護公教人員的尊嚴權益這個角度去出發 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
8366.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
8389.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
就像我說的,99.9%的公教人員都會填但是也要去尊重那些為什麼不想填的人他們就是匪諜嗎?他們就是中共同步人嗎?不想填的人他可以不填,而且也沒有罰則目前的遊戲規則就是這樣謝謝翁小玲委員,雙方都很完整的論述跟回答謝謝,我們現在休息五分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
8962.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
8965.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
好 現在繼續開會 請莊瑞雄委員進行詢問謝謝主席我如果還不想叫你 你就把它撞開不要緊 要不然你而已 只能叫你而已我們請人事長好 有請人事長 謝謝謝謝主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
8988.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
9013.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
人事長,我看今天有一個一則消息,蓋洛普全世界的一個民調,全世界最快樂的國家,對嗎?不單喔?不單喔?不單喔?不單喔?不單喔?不單喔?不單喔?不單喔?不單喔?不單喔?不單喔?不單喔?不單喔?不單喔?不單喔?不單喔?不單喔?不單喔?不單喔?不單喔?不單喔?不單喔?不單喔?不單喔?不單喔?不單喔?不單喔?不單喔?不單喔?不單喔?不單喔?不單喔?不單喔?不單喔?不單喔?不單喔?不單喔?不單喔?不單喔?不單喔?不單喔?不單喔?不單喔?不單喔?不單喔?不單喔?不單喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
9015.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
9025.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
你這個個人主觀想像,我現在要跟你講的是說,蓋洛普全世界的民調,八連霸有一個國家,全世界最快樂的?你有看到嗎?芬蘭啦!市長他們憂鬱症的人數也不少是,所以快樂的定義,跟還有它產生的衝擊,每個國家會不一樣,那台灣呢? |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
9045.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
9057.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
我們台灣真的要求白天幾天?台灣應該幾天,因為我們這幾年的經濟每年都好啊但是也有人說我們都過勞啊,工人的壓力也很重啊,大家也是要放假啊,如果要求幾天假,你們就一天頭兩天大啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
9066.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
9084.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
那大家都希望說 大家都放假 還有新選人唸啊所以我就說 這個叫做主觀的想像嘛台灣呢 在亞洲就排名第三全世界呢 排名就27啦也就是說我們有 確實是有很多努力的一個空間啦那當然 你說站在公務人員的立場來看的話你那個總緣額嘛 你想要說緣額不變總緣額不變 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
9095.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
9121.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
又要嫁 又要結婚之後那其實啊 工作量啊會增加 不會減少嘛公共機關講究的就是一個叫做效率嘛講究的就是一個叫做責任嘛那會有衝突那今天本席就幾個問題要來請教啦那政府啊 我看賴總統去年也提出了一個所謂的身心調適價這樣的一個概念啦那我不曉得 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
9123.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
9141.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
那這個身心調試假你說讓公務人員可以在整個心理壓力過高的時候來做一個請假也不需要整個病假的一個證明可是在基層公務人員普遍的一個反應我在請試假問題就已經很困難了那何況這種新設立的一個價別譬如說以教育部來看的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
9148.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
9171.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
今年八月 去年 去年八月去 它就可以稱身心的調適價可是呢 很多學生也反映啊 我都遭受到刁難啦那功夫機關呢 到底會不會出現這樣的一個問題啊那我不曉得 人總這個地方 你們對於這樣的一個身心調適價這樣的一個概念 這個價別 你們的態度怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
9173.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
9188.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
我的委員報告三月十七號我們已經申請調適假簽了基本上當事人在申請三天調適假裡面就是Incover在整個試駕七天裡面機關 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
9190.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
9217.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
不能犯罪,而且他也不用檢護什麼證明就是確保當事人他要申請的,而且機關也不能對申請調適假的人做出就是有害的一些處分,你算是苛責還是其他的都不行那時候要保障那所以說申請調適假以現在來看的話本來你說七天裡面,那年齡你還沒算出來嗎?還沒算一天啊? |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
9219.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
9240.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
三年裡面可以贏啊,因為暑假先贏贏,之後又不會加啊所以它真正的實意是什麼?第一個,不列為考積它就不用證明嘛,也不影響它的考積嘛因為暑假一般你會清很多暑假的科學的應用我倒這樣看啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
9241.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
9260.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
你說身心調適價,我們最怕的就是會被標籤化了,會覺得你偷懶,怕會造成一個負面的影響那第二個,跑去放假了,那其他人來看的話,會不會有職務代理的問題?你也必須要去考慮到這樣的一個問題啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
9262.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
9290.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
基本上當事人是有需要才去申請 剛才委員提的是有可能啦因為喔 就一個人好好的 阿不然代表是去請其實齁 這個問題以目前的情況來講齁 發生的機會齁但同仁之間齁 發生了這一種所謂的懷疑 阿那個人好好的去請假他本來就有他的管理可以去請啦是啦 我要跟你們講就是說啊你這個政府你既然要提出來以後 你就是要去落實啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
9291.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
9318.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
不是說你本地就好啊 你本地就有啊這個態度我就覺得反而那個政府這樣的一個美意又要被打折扣了 好不好好 那另外啊 本席要來請教的就是說我最近看到國民黨的朋友他們也一直在拋一個議題就是還我七天假 這樣的一個議題出來我不曉得任總你的態度是怎麼樣國民黨現在提案說要恢復過去刪除了七天的國慶假日 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
9319.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
9335.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
我們比較擔心的就是說 這樣的一個議題其實都可以討論啦也沒有哪一個政黨說提出來以後他一定就會賺到一個放假的一個紅利 未必這個未必都會有政治上的紅利 為什麼會衝擊到民間 衝擊到企業你像譬如說這個假裝都回來了 對民眾來講的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
9341.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
9347.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
我譬如說你應用在你政府的一個運作那你像譬如說副政機關稅務單位或者說交通或者醫療這個對民眾產生的一個衝擊 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
9357.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
9378.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
提案的人他未必會享受到紅利那一個案子這個如果說這個法假設通過了以後衝擊到的是民眾衝擊到了一般的民眾或者衝擊到企業的一個運作所以我不曉得你任總你真正對這項的修法裡面的態度到底是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
9379.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
9408.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
基本上紀念日到節日實施辦法是內政部在主管的就是主管那邊下的嘛基本上那個上位的部分內政部他去頂我們要來修改 擺改我們要怎麼擺這樣啦有一個上下游的關係啦也要你們的態度啊 都會遷就你們啊我也相信你們說要內政部主管的但問題就是說這涉及到整個政府整體的一個運作的穩定性 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
9409.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
9435.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
跟民眾接受到政府機關服務它的一個順暢而且也牽扯到整個民間企業的一個運作這個都會衝擊到啊你怎麼可以這樣說 這是我們內政部主管而已我覺得這個事情 剛才委員提的這些民間業者的經營成本的問題還有一個就是小孩子的售價錢的問題那當然你放假了 尤其偏鄉的孩子 說真的啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
9436.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
9465.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
他的教育資源本來就比較匱乏,你又放假又放這麼多,對他們來說相對不公平所以說你的態度我又聽不懂啊我的態度就是持保留啊,因為你就是保留嘛,就不是只有內政部而已嘛對不對,你就不是說這個就不是什麼內政部主管機關嘛就是說我人種,我對於這樣的一個修法,你們就是保留嘛保留也是有道理啊,不是沒有道理,這本來就可以討論啊Open discussion |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
9466.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
9484.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
不錯,來,想問一下一條,你針對於原住民主碎石計一價裡面我一直在盯這樣的一個問題,就是說這樣的一個價別裡面,你可不可以讓大家尤其讓我們原住民的朋友,不要讓他們看得到 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
9487.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
9511.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
請不上你像譬如說我們政府就允許原住民在按照族群的遂時計放假一天但問題就是說這項的一個權益裡面有的人真的不知道就變成說有價可以請的人我沒請到就白白吃虧了那部分的企業或者機關他甚至於不了解整個的一個政策導致員工的請假 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
9512.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
9523.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
有人去請的忙 也是用記招 甚至於說還要不知心所以我在這個地方啊 具體的來建議就是說是不是在我們每一年的辦公日曆上 我們去加注 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
9524.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
9548.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
原住民族碎石記憶架的一個資訊那你透過整個官方行事曆的一個曝光以後啊提高社會對原住民族文化的一個認識那也可以去確保整個企業跟機關明確了解放假的一個規定你避免整個執行上的一個混亂請教我們這個任總這邊的看法我委員報告啦 就你螢幕上這張齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
9550.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
9565.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
正面反面說真的我們會利用被住的地方去做一個序名啦所以就代表我們原來沒做啦現在你把它加下去我們有寫說按照原住民委員會的公告有寫這樣的 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
9566.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
9590.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
我們直接給他註明 好不好 因為在那裡在那裡有什麼 還有娥姐 父 王子我們先要更加明確 人總是不是願意在下一年度的行事你加裝這個資訊的資訊來落實整個政策的一個效益就這樣 你看 我在那裡你建議加注原住民的稅時計餘價的一個資訊 可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
9594.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
9596.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
我來教我來教這樣是不是就清楚了這樣企業也不會混亂我原住民的朋友我只要看到這張表以後會覺得這天就是我可以來請教的這樣可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
9607.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
9633.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
但是我要跟委員講 他的幾十多個報告的歷史都不一樣那都公園嘛 但是至少這個價 我們就把他這個資訊就把它列進去嘛我們那個資訊提供更加明確一點不要只有提供一個網址啦 更加明確可以啦 這個表要加進去以後 他就知道說讓企業主也知道說這天他可以簽到原住民朋友會覺得說這天真的就是我的福利 而且是法定的 好不好好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
9635.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
9637.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
好 謝謝莊銳雄委員 謝謝任市長好 謝謝 我們接下來請陳培宇委員質詢好 謝謝主席 接下來有請任市長有請我們任市長 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
9667.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
9683.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
人事長早安我們來看一下我要先肯定我們在去年12月13號人事總署這邊啟動了職場霸凌案件通報平台這個平台已經開始運作了我們看到資料從12月13號 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
9684.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
9699.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
到2月28號目前呢收件數327在處理的138撤案的時期已經結案的172所以呢最後霸凌調查成立的目前看到的數字是1.7% |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
9701.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
9716.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
那我當然不是這個霸凌處理或者是討論的專家但是我想要跟任市長分享一個可能性我們來討論看看我相信很多人看到這個1.7%只有三個案子成立我覺得很多人一定會滿頭問號 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
9720.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
9735.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
會認為這個比例好像有一點不是太合乎我們一般人日常生活經驗中的了解更何況是非常多行政機關大家所擔心的問題那我們來看一下如果我們來看一個個案來 下一張 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
9737.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
9759.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
這邊這個案子我當然就不點名是哪一個單位不過因為它是發生在人事單位的這個報告裡面是這樣寫的他說呢另有冷嘲熱諷以及咆哮的行為可是呢就這個提出來的個案它所能夠提供的證據只能證明被申訴人偶有上開行為 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
9760.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
9778.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
就是好像看不出那個頻率跟次數有多麼密集也不是很確定到底是不是很多很多這樣子所以呢決定不成立這個案子應該是不成立我再一次強調我尊重專業的認定跟判斷那可是呢我要提醒人是這樣我覺得這真的 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
9780.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
9799.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
跟我們一般的認知除了從數字端剛我說的數字端到這個報告但我想要分享另外一個我們之前在教育部也處理非常多校園裡面師對生 生對生甚至是生對師都有可能的相關霸凌的 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
9801.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
9830.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
邏輯我們是這樣想的本來以前在校園裡面我們來看一下下一張這是你們目前給我們的流程如果我們參考校園裡面以前在校園裡面我們確實有遇到過這種到底情況如何認定誰說了算頻率要多少次數要多少或者是那個樣態要長成什麼樣子我們才可以被認定為大齡成立這個對孩子的權益或是對在校園裡面老師的權益對行政人員權益非常的重要 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
9830.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
9852.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
後來呢在霸凌防制準則裡面呢教育部潘部長在卸任前他們整個學特斯結合非常多專家學者會議開了非常非常多的會也聽了校園裡面的意見也聽了兒少代表的意見大家後來決定是只要有單獨一次 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
9853.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
9875.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
有人提出申訴就必須要開相關的委員會積極的討論跟去判斷這件事情以前是如果只有一次單次事件他們連開都不開會那開會之後要不要成立我們當然交由專業的委員會那我們回到委員會的機制委員會的機制他們甚至後來因為學校裡面師師相護的狀態其實 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
9879.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
9898.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
很常聽見當然不是全台灣的老師都這樣可是因為有非常多的案件像之前很嚴重的封中後來小孩是自殺墜樓這個事件讓我們更努力去想我們如何避免實時相互所以後來教育部他們就決定成立一個外部人才資料庫 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
9899.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
9917.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
也就是他們受過一些受過專業訓練的人被教育部放在這個人才資料庫裡面所以如果學校要啟動相關霸凌事件調查的時候他就必須要去這個資料庫裡面找人或者是有相關的機制也就是他不是只是學校裡面去找 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
9918.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
9943.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
那確保這個公平性那不管是加害者或者是被申訴的人被申訴的人就是加害者或者是受害者大家都會覺得這樣感覺公平一點公開一點透明一點大家比較願意信任這個機制站在保護為上我非常感謝教育部做這個改革但因為我剛剛已經先說我非常感謝人事總處先開啟了這個通報平台但是我在想我們可不可以後續在這個平台 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
9945.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
9971.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
後續其他的配套上我們可以更細緻包含我剛說的可不可以有人才資料庫或者是相關的時間點或者是這個如何認定這件事情我認為平台是良善的第一步我們後續可不可以為這些行政機關裡面的人再多做一點多做一點讓所有這些還願意留在行政機關為民服務的公務員不管他是基層不管他是長官不管他是階級比較大的 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
9972.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
9996.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
他們都可以好好安心的工作為人民服務我想要問一下董事長你的意見裡面大概有兩個部分一個人才資料庫的問題事實上前陣子我到一些縣市去他們我們人事主管有跟我們反映因為那些人要找大概就是心理師或者精神醫師或者律師事實上我有建議他們 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
9997.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
10025.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
就是建一個類似人才資料庫的概念因為現在的人說這個台北分他都被各個機關booking很忙所以上一年12月去的時候他說有些是要輪到今年的4月那個當事人才有空所以剛才委員提的那個人才資料庫的概念是非常好讓這一些有需要的機關學校他可以從人才資料庫有更完整的選材的 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
10027.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
10056.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
各位因為我們現在的一個參議的外部委員基本上要超過一半所以要把這些人全部都找齊這個時間有時候也坦白講不方便所以有些機關他們開這個調查會的時候有時候是早上8點就開始開有些是中午有些是要當晚或晚上來開剛才委員這一個資料我想我們會去補充這方面的資料 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
10057.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
10080.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
就是處理的類似QA的部分我們也會把它放進來因為每一個機關的承辦人員因為經驗的問題或者判斷的問題有時候該怎麼處理我們會把過去累積的一個經驗也放在這個平台讓這些同仁可以進來reference有一個比較完整的QA那有一點類似知識庫的這個概念 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
10080.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
10099.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
好 太好了 我很開心聽到人事長正向的回應還有一個我覺得可能很細緻但是可能對於被害人會有很重要的保護作用跟宣示作用代表我們行政院對這件事情就是有態度的也就是目前在教育端的做法是會對於當事人有調離限職的配套設計我們有機會嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
10102.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
10130.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
我們目前就是已經在這樣做了目前已經這樣做了嗎以人種的我們的做法是這樣所以我們是有一個公文下去希望所有行政機關都用這個配套但是我們這樣人因為他那個霸凌的那個嚴重程度不大一樣而且他要安排他的職缺的問題有些是職缺的安排有些霸凌的狀況當事人的一個scenario不一樣所以他們會有不一樣的一個安排 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
10131.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
10157.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
會有不一樣的安排好那意思就是說我們目前你的態度是支持的而且我們相關的做法有相關的公文或是行政命令下去了嗎讓各個機關知道說不是只有您在這邊宣示而是我們真的有這個可能性可是我剛剛已經說了它是配套那如果在人力的調度上有困難我們要怎麼來積極面對我覺得這是後續要討論的這不是我們今天在這邊討論完但是我就是提出一個提醒好 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
10158.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
10185.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
我們再跟同仁討論看看就是要如何來協助各個人事機關如果遇到有霸凌那個把他的本職請去做調離限職的應該就是很清楚就叫做調離限職的配套設計好最後一個如果我是被害人然後我對於相關的處理結果我認為我不滿意我不接受那有遇到調查爭議的時候我們上級機關介入調查申訴機制目前這部分有開啟了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
10186.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
10193.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
有有有 因為我們已經有開啟了所以一樣嘛 也是你知道但是我們所有的行政機關都知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
10193.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
10218.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
有啦 我們有發文過 你要上級機關要介入因為現在像有些部會就已經上級在介入直接協助好 那這個部分我們也會再跟任總這邊釐清我覺得確實如果我們有這麼多積極的作為包含你剛剛也已經承諾了人才資料庫你也很認同我們就往這個方向一起來努力我們讓更多所有這些為大家服務的公務員真的覺得政府有跟大家站在一起 好不好好 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
10219.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
10243.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
那接下來我們來看我還有40秒好再來我們談到關於行政法人的評鑑行政法人的評鑑當然目前的KPI是法人自己訂然後監督機關來審核然後評鑑小組來評分那我們看到其實常常有很多的法人其實大家對於他們的服務跟表現狀態是有些疑慮的以我過去在教委我們看到國訓中心裡面常常很多讓人家冒頭冒問號這樣子我想問一下這幾年的評鑑狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
10249.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
10273.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
或者是人種這邊有沒有什麼可能性來談這個事情當然我知道權責跟相關的分工可是我們可不可以更積極來面對這個事情基本上我跟委員報告這些都有它的主管機關像文化部門的教育部那我們從行政法人的一個主管機關我們事實上也有在努力 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
10274.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
10287.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
第一個TRAINING的問題啦,我說真的第一個TRAINING的問題第二個是AWARENESS的問題我們希望說讓更多人了解行政法人他的角色的扮演他應該怎麼處理,坦白講 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
10289.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
10314.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
我承認我們還有努力的空間所以我們確實認同還有一定的機制跟相關的可能性去調整他們的awareness也好你剛說他們的awareness或者是他們的training確實都需要人總這邊更積極的不要說是插手啦而是有一些機制去讓這件事情變得更好對不對不要讓大家覺得我們好像就是自己給自己打分數啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
10316.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
10323.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
這有一點類似我們在訂一個guideline給他們然後也必須要去practice所以這個guideline是有機會在多久以內訂出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
10325.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
10339.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
目前都有 可是我覺得就是剛才我跟委員報告的就是Awareness跟Training的部分我們還要再加強那相關的機制我們今天就不在這裡討論我們辦公室之後再跟你們實質開會討論我們會把一些相關資料先送委員辦公室上考好 謝謝 好 謝謝人長好 謝謝陳培宇陳委員 接下來請鍾嘉斌委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
10367.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
10391.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
主席 在場的委員 先進列席的政務機關長 官員 會長 工作夥伴 媒體記者 女士先生有請我們蘇委人事長請人事長委員早委員長早先輕鬆一下看一段影片 我們來看一下來可以嗎怎麼抱歉 這時間暫停一下剛剛不是要播影片嗎按左邊 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
10398.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
10419.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
这还没设定好抱歉这个还要设定一下值得看了回来就好那医院开给你的薪水是32K13个月三节奖金各500等一下怎么才32K当护理师薪水不是很高的吗我最近都在看新闻说年资不到一年的护理师平均薪资六到几万年资六至七年约74K才对耶 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
10420.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
10445.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
放心我們除了底薪外還有輪班津貼跟餐費津貼簽約獎金等上小業會有600大約900元確定錄取你後醫院會跟你簽合約OK好來那個人長這個影片你覺得目前我們台灣社會是不是對於醫療機構的醫護人員我們都認為要提升他們的待遇 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
10446.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
10461.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
大家普遍有這樣的一個期待那你知道我們公立醫療機構的護理人員的薪資是多少嗎他的薪資結構你們有做統計嗎因為我是指公立的喔衛福部上週公布各醫院護理人員的薪資人種有沒有類似的統計我我 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
10465.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
10493.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
大概四升級大概四萬多啦四一六八零我們要有一個奉典奉額還有專業家級的一個累積有私籍跟市籍的嘛對私籍到六萬七左右私籍到六萬七喔對我們部立屏東醫院如果是護理是私籍的最基層的之前的有46K如果是市籍的有39K經常薪資是本薪加固定津貼非經常薪資是加班費加非固定獎金是不是這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
10494.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
10521.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
是好我補充一下師醫級的也算高九萬八千六六百六師醫級師那是最高啦醫師護理師都是師啦好那我們現在看來其實呢我遇到很多公立大型醫院的院長管理階層他們說現在大型醫院你也知道國人的就醫習慣很喜歡去大型醫院急診啊加護病房啊這醫護人力都過度勞動啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
10522.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
10546.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
負荷過高 所以他說我們可不可以把業外收入拿來提獎金 為什麼因為事業收入呢 受到健保總額的限制他沒有辦法去調但是呢 如果公立醫院大型機構他的業外收入像停車場啦 美食街廣場啦他有這個空間 他想要公立醫院可不可以從業外收入提撥獎勵金來給這些特別辛苦的醫護人員 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
10549.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
10563.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
我謝謝委員這個問題事實上這個問題之前我有跟主計長討論過我就拜託主計長他們可以去整體的衡量因為兩個角度啦一個就是說你要提供獎金是應該 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
10565.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
10587.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
跟醫療是相關嘛另外一個就是以更大的範圍裡面在醫院的場域裡面提供相關服務的他也把他的營收列入整個鋪合對 但是你有問過人事長 主計長我也問過主計長那主計長提醒一點不是每個醫院 公立醫院都有這個條件大型機構人潮多錢潮多 業外收入高 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
10588.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
10614.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
比較中小型的公立醫院就沒有這個辦法搞不好這樣子會造成人才往醫學中心集中他提出這個顧慮你是不是也覺得有這個可能有 當然一定會有這個可能所以呢要從大型公立醫院才有的業外收入去提高他們的獎金話說回來會有一些可能的後遺症那這樣好不好那如果我們普遍的把公職護理師的專業佳績提高來留才這進一步還會帶動私立醫院的加薪你覺得可不可行可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
10619.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
10644.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
我們這一次調薪會專業家計表24會調整會針對我們公立醫院的醫護人力是不是這樣對好你承諾了好我們等著看好那接下來另外我們來看到這是剛公佈的去年的金控全國的金控14家的平均薪資出爐了第一名是元大金那我們看到如果是泛公股的有兆豐有第一有和酷有華南四家入榜 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
10645.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
10668.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
你認為國營的金融機構要如何與飯工股和民營爭財我跟您提醒 什麼叫國營的金融機構就是台灣銀行 土地銀行跟輸出的銀行他們簡稱叫台土輸你覺得有沒有辦法來跟他們談 這裡面都沒有台灣銀行沒有在入黨你覺得是不是要幫助這些國營金融機構他們的待遇提升來跟民間來爭取人才 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
10670.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
10693.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
基本上我是支持,不過它本身有一個遊戲規則好,我們來看一下這個遊戲規則其實很遺憾的,不曉得那個時空背景在第八屆第四會前,國民黨委員提出的提案限制了財政部所屬的事業機構,就是指國營金融機構它的最高績效獎金只能4.4個月你知道嗎,這個跟民間差很大,我們往下看 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
10694.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
10709.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
現在呢 國營跟飯工股的呢 伙食費人家的是三千 他們是免稅的七百五再往下看那麼生育津貼呢 哇 人家都是什麼一胎十五萬 十萬結果呢 台土輸 台灣金控 土營輸營呢 都 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
10710.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
10732.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
大概不到一萬塊以下我們來看一下 往前跳一頁台灣銀行的資產規模是另外四家的最前面第一名結果這四家金控 是范工股的金控他們的待遇有進入到前14名台灣銀行輸TIAMTIAM更不要說土地銀行跟輸出銀行所以叫做台土輸啊 輸TIAMTIAM |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
10733.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
10755.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
那您覺得要怎麼樣來改善呢?你是不是要改善?我跟委員報告大概兩個部分一個剛才提到的獎金4.4的部分的限制立法院那我們給他調啊你給他調,那點我認為立法院調就好第二點,生意補助的問題我們這個禮拜剛簽行政院就是每一台你們都支持,都10萬塊 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
10757.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
10771.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
這個生意補助十萬從以前到現在我們對這個議題都非常支持我跟你講我剛剛去財政委員會我問財政部長他們有五大基地措施我問他那什麼時候可以實施他說要報院但是院裡面會先問人總的意見我說好我現在馬上問人總你支不支持財政部的這個方案五大方案 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
10777.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
10785.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
有大方案喔 不是只有生育娜娘喔阿哥4.4調到4.6的那個是那個我們立法院來解決我想立法院會有人反對所以人總支持吧我有跟他交換條件啦其中有兩個是要組總掛定你的部分那三個你支持組總的另外兩個我會再問主席長好不好那你就支持了齁因為我跟他相書啊我說人事長一定會支持他說不曉得咧我說我來馬上問支持啦齁好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
10809.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
10817.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
要講一下我們請評估提升公職醫護待遇以帶動私立醫院加薪的可行性你們來提出一個書面報告可不可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
10818.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
10834.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
好啦 OK那剛剛講的那個五大方案提升國營金融機構的員工待遇與飯宮股和民營的銀行可以來爭取搶取人才也是一樣你說五項 有三項是你的嘛把這三項拿出來然後呢 你掛簿先給他擠一擠這樣好不好我應該是兩項啦喔 越來越少就多一項出了一項這項是立法院割的嘛立法院我們來改要煮給兩間嘛 都五間啊好 那我們一起努力好不好好 好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
10846.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
10856.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
好 謝謝 人事長不錯 真開明少子化這個議題 也要補助國家的投資接下來我們請楊瓊英委員質詢謝謝主席 楊瓊英發言 邀請人事長請人事長委員長 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
10872.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
10880.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
我們首先來討論人怎麼留住的問題我們看到113年9月底中央機關職員缺額大概是2043人 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
10886.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
10910.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
扣除署一級以上的主管 依法令規定保留職缺 考試分發列管還有機要缺 還有臨補中以及借調到其他機關這六類的缺額大概是13226人那還有尚未運用的缺額呢 大概是6817人那他的缺額呢 依照比例是3.6% |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
10911.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
10938.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
在地方政府裡頭缺額大概是20717人扣除六類六類的缺額是11050人還有尚未運用的缺額大概是9667人他的缺額率是5.2那麼除了因應各項的政策的一個推動要保留我們人才這個彈性調度那因為呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
10940.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
10959.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
這個專業的人員的高度是零補不益比如說治安的人力導致公務人員的缺額是越來越嚴重那請問人事長您有什麼方案可以吸引而且可以留住優秀的人才請做說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
10960.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
10983.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
我覺得委員剛才提的非常好像治安能力的部分事實上從數碼部成立到現在我們一直跟那個治安署在談因為說真的以目前整個市場的供需來講治安能力事實上是嚴重不足很多都會被上市貴公司或者金融機構董事長你現在的角色是人事長 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
10984.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
11012.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
本席將問題提出你不用再敘述這個內容需要聽聽您有什麼樣的經濟方案可以有誘因可以怎麼樣留住人才治安能力的部分我們除了規定的那一種專業家級表20以外我們有政治專業家級還有留任獎金還有他的團體或個人獎金透過這三種方式來提升他的一個待遇跟收入 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
11012.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
11037.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
但是目前你所提出的方案還是缺額非常的多零補不益你是不是再去精進因為你如果只有講你目前的樣態那你解決不了問題所以本席會在這邊提出我希望你去精進方案方案給本席我跟委員報告這裡面有兩個部分一個是請治安署他提那個治安的考試職缺 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
11037.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
11054.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
因為治安的專門類科的考試是上一年才開始開放第一個他要增加這一個職缺招募更多人第二個呢治安署目前同時也在做職能轉訊的部分只要上課上幾十個學分職能轉訊 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
11056.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
11085.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
第一個也就是希望職缺多開第二個職能轉訓不管你什麼方案我們就希望領補要領補進來這是國家非常重要的人力需求你把經濟方案給本席接下來我要跟你討論的本席要討論的是總統府所謂的健康台灣推動委員會本席非常的重視這一個議案那麼在2月27號的時候召開了第三次會議衛務部我們的邱部長在會中也表示也就是我們這邊也 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
11086.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
11106.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
有邀請存續部、勞動部還有衛福部一起來商討你們似乎是有獲得了一些共識本期要請教進度有一個增訂公務人員身心調適價本期認為這個非常重要因為現在的壓力太大了所以請教身心調適價在目前價別的適用範圍 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
11110.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
11127.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
他的假期長度他給新的方式以及實際上執行的細節你們目前狀態研議的方案怎麼樣呢我們已經在3月17號簽成行政院我們還要會考試院我們會送考試院基本上會在 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
11128.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
11150.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
七天試駕裡面挪三天當申請條試駕他是有薪水的七天挪三天有薪水的有薪水然後服務員機關不能拒絕然後也不必檢查服務的機關不能拒絕就是北市長大這個適用範圍而且也不能做不利於當事人的處罰 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
11151.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
11159.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
這個非常重要這個非常重要阿不然你清清的了 你考證了對 人家不敢請啊對 又考機又去給你懲罰這個我們都要周圍詳細而且也不用檢護證明不用檢護證明那這個 任總我想今天我歡喜聽到這個進度我希望你趕快去把這個進度追出來因為我覺得我們要留住人才我們要讓他能夠安心 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
11176.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
11201.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
有需要者 這個是非常非常的重要這個本席特別的勉勵接下來本席要告訴你一句話也就剛剛我們在財政委員會在這一次審查總預算的時候中國國民黨也提出了一個主決議也就供股銀行你要怎麼樣留住這些人才我們所謂的供股銀行跟犯供股的比較差別非常的大 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
11201.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
11230.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
大約有五項剛剛我們一再的在談論也就是伙食費剛剛財政部長本席告訴你數字財政部長告訴我們伙食費一個月三千生意補助他們簽的是十萬剛剛您說有簽到哪裡簽到行政院了你簽的數字是不是跟財政部長講的一樣是十萬那一樣的接下來也就是員工的這個福利的部分他們是要提出財政部提出稅以前盈餘的1到8% |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
11233.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
11239.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
第四項 也就是獎金的部分由原先的4.4個月到4.6個月對 這個到4.6個月還有一個就是福利性托 才能夠有保障我希望你這邊要全力的來支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
11250.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
11270.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
因為我們也看到他們要留出人才也非常非常的辛苦因為我說的宮古營養是一個模範生我們如果沒有讓他們能夠安心願意留下來那我們的宮古營養這個模範生的精緻招牌或許就會有很大的衝擊你的看法呢我一直非常支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
11271.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
11285.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
一直非常支持所以一定要趕快努力推動來落實而且這是中共國民黨在審查總預算的時候在立院裡頭大院做出的主決議我們希望能夠完善它謝謝好 謝謝委員好 謝謝楊瓊英委員接下來有請我們林月琴委員質詢請 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
11309.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
11311.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
麻煩我們的人事長有請人事長 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
11315.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
11343.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
昨天早 人事長早那我知道現在我們的總預算在藍白兩黨在亂三的結果呢 事實上還不確定那我也知道現在總預算案還有一些爭議 那行政院也在找那個救濟的手段那左院長呢 事實上一直在對我們公務人員加薪這一塊很努力我還是要來問 就是要幫專業人員爭取該有的福利 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
11344.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
11351.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
所以我從進立法院就一直對於我們的公職人員的那個加擠的問題我覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
11354.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
11378.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
在10月17號我有針對這個在座諮詢因為去年3月的時候呢我們的公立學校的校戶呢就來跟我澄清說發現他們1月1號上路的公務人員專業家級的修正事實上是對他們相對不公平的有兩個不公平第一個他跟其他公務人員相比的話他是比較低那校戶呢事實上是更低 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
11381.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
11407.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
所以就想問就是因為整個盤算起來看起來整個不公平的待遇公職人員有28萬人那其中遭受到雙重打壓的公立學校的校戶大概2690人那所以也想問的是說經過這樣子因為已經他的主管機關一個叫做衛福部一個叫教育部都已經同意的狀況底下在去年年底都把同意已經 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
11408.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
11427.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
送到建議事項已經送到我們的人事總署這邊所以想問人事長這個議題有關政府組織內部的公平性也關係到醫事人員有沒有被雙重歧視的問題所以是不是想知道說人事總署要做調整真實狀況到底調不調 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
11428.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
11450.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
我跟委員報告,事實上這個案子大概卓院長已經批示了啦而且那個條新會調一級,然後他追溯到今年1月1號開始又回溯到1月1號開始起算,所以委員關心的議題事實上已經處理了所以調的幅度事實上是比照我們的政府機關公立議員的金額嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
11451.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
11470.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
沒有 也領外大概失業級的有調整大概接近3%左右沒有辦法 事實上整體因為公職的人員的專業加級調整幅度是只有4%所以調的那個只有再增加3%嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
11471.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
11497.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
大概有些是3%多一點有大概3到4%之間那就要問什麼時候調整所以現在簽下來大概時間大概回溯從今年1月1號開始回溯所以這個已經是確定院長已經批示了真的很感謝也感謝我們的卓院長能夠看到我們的醫護人員尤其是學校校護有時候一個學校只有一個校護要照顧很多人 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
11498.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
11500.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
那所以也謝謝 那謝謝任市長 謝謝好 謝謝林月琴委員接下來請吳宗憲委員質詢謝謝 麻煩任市長請任市長 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
11524.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
11551.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
委員長 委員長早安今天要跟請教一下就是有關職場霸凌的部分我想去年11月3號就是台灣我們這邊鬧得蠻大的就是那個無信公務員輕生之後那其實我們國內就開始都重視這個公務員職場霸凌的一些問題那我們再看一下這幾年其實在公務員體系發生一個狀況就我自己擔任公務員公務員有24年的時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
11554.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
11578.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
那這24年前那個時候的公務員其實是金飯碗大家都很喜歡當公務員但是我們看這幾年其實發生一個狀況就是因為退休金被刪除的關係所以導致這幾年公務員的薪水也不好退休金又被刪就導致報考率一直逐年的下降那比之前少非常多 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
11579.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
11607.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
所以除了這個經濟部分的問題之外我想其他部分我們是不是有提供給公務員一個有保障的法規這也是一個很重要而且能夠吸引優秀的人才能當公務員的一個重要的事情我們想說前一段時間我們一直在討論說公務員不管是過勞的問題或是霸凌的問題目前我們來看公務員還是沒有辦法納入職安法的保護對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
11609.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
11632.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
我們現在就公務人員保障法跟安慰辦法那是2月的時候保訓會那時候有開一個那個防治公務人員職場霸凌法制研修的會議那政府目前的方向我想說還是希望說把這個公部門的霸凌是放在公務員保障法的架構下面去處理就是跟職安的部分要脫鉤 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
11634.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
11655.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
對 我想說目前是這樣但是呢 人事總署當然啦 政府的這個想法我們是有點失望啦但是我想說人事行政總署你們總是整個政府的HR所有的機關的人事部門是由你們在掌管嘛那從這個人資的管理的專業角度 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
11656.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
11675.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
出發我們還是蠻希望說你們能夠發揮你們的角色能夠來適當的處理這個霸凌的問題那我想說從去年這個無姓公務員的這個事情之後其實不管是行政院 訴發部等等的公家機關都有被踢爆有很多霸凌的案子 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
11676.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
11694.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
那衛福部調查後也有八個案子那現在在調查之後呢其實陸陸續續都確認有霸凌的問題所以這個霸凌現在在我們的公務員體系裡面它並不是一個假議題它是一個真實存在的那我想請問人事長一個最簡單的問題霸凌的定義到底是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
11695.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
11715.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
霸凌它是一個持續性的一個對上對下或者下對上也有可能下對上或者同等的同仁之間長期的那種所謂的有一種歧視的一些作為歧視包含肢體還有口語的 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
11716.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
11730.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
所以有時候我們同仁在跟我講就是說眼影按摩的概念有的人講話就是比較沒有修飾啦就比較講得比較土一點這這樣霸凌的定義會不會過於空泛 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
11732.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
11747.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
事實上它因為就是definition的問題所以我們最近已經很高密度的跟保訓會在談這一些安慰辦法這一些定義因為定義要定清楚我們在執行才有一個依據嘛好 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
11749.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
11767.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
我想說我大概懂那個任市長的意思啦就是說很多時候當然我們自己念法律的嘛有時候法律的解釋除了是法條之外再來就是要有實際的案例再來補充嘛我想說這個我可以理解啦所以是不是說除了法律的或者是一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].start |
11768.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].end |
11784.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].text |
公開的政府論述之外將來是需要有更多的案例來補充所謂的霸凌的解釋是不是我們事實上目前用最多的大概是法院的這些判決的一些案例我們是把它拿來引用 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].start |
11786.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].end |
11803.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].text |
這個會比較客觀而且明確那我想說這可能將來是不是也要麻煩你們能夠濃縮能夠摘出一些比較重要的案例然後來解釋給國人聽因為有一些東西它的關於文字的解釋也許人民不是那麼容易懂 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].start |
11804.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].end |
11819.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].text |
就好像說之前那個國會改革的時候我們講反諮詢然後人家問我說反諮詢呢那我們說明完定義之後我們會說接下來還是需要有案例將來來補充這個部分的說明我覺得類似我覺得法律人都這樣法條 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].start |
11821.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].end |
11841.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].text |
再加判決判例然後來補充讓它整個完整所以我還是希望說很多東西包括霸凌的定義是什麼除了法條之外我們還要把將來可能法院上面審理或者是一些實際上面行政機關所受理的案例要把它明確化來告訴各個公務員什麼叫做霸凌 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].start |
11842.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].end |
11866.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].text |
那有些人他被霸凌他不自知那他看了也許他就懂他會去申訴或是有一些人他會知道自己的行為不對不可以這樣對別人所以還要麻煩你們在一起我們一起努力好我們這個大概原則上就如同我剛才講的我們會reference到整個法院的一些判例還有我們公務機關最近這一兩年實際的一些案例 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].start |
11867.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].end |
11895.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].text |
然後一個很重要的 剛才委員提的我們會把它精簡 讓一般同仁一看就看得懂那我想說 人總去年12月有提出一個霸凌女王那個嘛就他有幾個例子嘛 公務員下屬說要請商駕他就說你怎麼不讓你爸爸趕快燒一燒就好或是說有人流產 他就說你早上墮胎處理一下下午就可以來上班或是叫部署幫他 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].start |
11896.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].end |
11923.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].text |
準備三餐 辦公室煮菜或是叫部署開車載他去做自己的事情或是把家裡的垃圾拿去辦公室叫部署處理我覺得類似像這種案例出來之後其實我們就可以告訴其他的公務員有這些例子這些一個一個案例的累積我覺得對於將來我們對於霸凌這個定義是能夠更精確因為法律總是要法律其實是要求要明確化我想那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].start |
11924.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].end |
11939.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].text |
人長一定非常知道這個道理我們就只能就是將來再多給我們一些這樣的案例讓我們能夠更了解霸凌的定義到底是什麼最後這個主管當然後來是被記兩大過免職我想說這是一個好事 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].start |
11942.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].end |
11963.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].text |
其實我覺得要不是說之前有那位無姓公務員的不幸事件其實也不會讓大家這麼重視有這個公家機關有這個問題那我自己我自己我剛剛說我當了24年的公務員那我博士班念的是公共衛生那我們也都知道其實職場職場的這個健康狀況他本來就是社會致病因子的其中一種 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].start |
11964.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].end |
11991.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].text |
所以職場的心理衛生的狀況它本來就影響到個人的身體健康以及家庭的問題所以這塊處理好其實對家庭以及對於我們說健保也是一個好事因為它讓這個社會致病因子減少的話讓人民其實可以更健康那我再請教一下就是目前各個機關它有一些有那個霸凌申訴的評議會 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].start |
11993.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].end |
12007.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].text |
那我看了一下六都啊六都有五都的這個評議會都有外部委員的參與但是高雄沒有但是六都以外的縣市像彰化新竹金門也都沒有剩下只有內部委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].start |
12008.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].end |
12035.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].text |
那我想請問一下你們人事總署你們的相關的那個評議會都有請外部委員但是有一些地方的機關地方縣市政府並沒有那我想請教一下就是人長就這個部分你們有沒有思考去訂一個標準要求國內的各公家機關的相關評議會都能夠強制的一定要有一定比例的外部委員在裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].start |
12036.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].end |
12049.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].text |
否則我們接到的那個申訴案件我們是某一個縣市有一個申訴案件他去做霸凌的申訴就發現調查小組 申訴小組裡面的成員都是自己機關內的長官 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].start |
12051.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].end |
12068.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].text |
那你也知道啦就是說在同一個機關內上班有時候他會不知道怎麼講啦甚至他講了以後這個霸凌者搞不好就是這個申訴委員會裡面的長官或者是長官的好朋友那這個要他怎麼處理我想請教一下你們的想法 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].start |
12069.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].end |
12094.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].text |
我跟委員報告因為目前在包含剛才委員關心的霸凌的定義還有一些相關細節還沒有制定我們現在是通案給各個機關就是看各個地方政府或者政府機關他們自己去做一個判斷可是當這個安慰辦法修正以後這些像我們目前大概會要求三分之一都是外部委員的這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].start |
12094.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].end |
12120.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].text |
到時候我們會直接寫進來大家有一個依詢而且相關的疑似霸凌者的這些人不予參與整個調查的一個程序剛才委員所關心的這個議題我們會在安慰辦法裡面會把它落入相關那你們可以兩個月內給我一個簡單的報告就可以嗎兩個月內不用很複雜啦給我簡單的報告告訴我你們怎麼處理這件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].start |
12120.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].end |
12147.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].text |
可以 可以 沒問題那另外還有一個東西就是因為人事總署有一個霸凌申訴平台在去年12月上線 對不對那裡面有提到用保密的方式來處理但是呢 因為這個平台要公務員具名檢舉但是你們說你們會保密那我想請教一下人總在收到這個檢舉之後是用什麼方式來進行處理或者是事後的追蹤那怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].start |
12149.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].end |
12164.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].text |
可以讓這個被檢舉的那個機關不會知道是誰來檢舉的你們的做法是怎麼樣這個部分的話原則上我們各機關都會請他指定那個收件的一個窗口 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].start |
12164.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].end |
12194.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].text |
所以我們在平台收到案件之後呢我們就會傳遞給這個機關指定的窗口由這個窗口他們去做後續的處理那在相關的處理作業上面我們也有要求機關要依循保密的原則去做後續的釐清跟調查那機關他在處理完成之後的結果他也要回到這個平台通報他處理的結果是成立不成立 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].start |
12195.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].end |
12211.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].text |
那對於成立的案子他是給他做懲處還是調整植物還是做其他的處理在這個平台上面我們也會請他要回報到這個平台來事後的列管呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].start |
12211.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].end |
12235.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].text |
事後列管我們就會在這個平台去看如果他超過期限還沒有完成的話那我們也會試著去了解是什麼原因因為事務處理上面來講的話有些機關因為剛剛人事長也有提到都要有外部委員的參與所以這個有些機關可能案子比較複雜另外也是專家學者的時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].start |
12236.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].end |
12253.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].text |
因為不好booking所以這個調查的程序上面來講的話有時候處理上會稍微晚一點也會有這種情形但是不管結果怎麼樣我們那個後平台的部分我們都一定要他回報處理結果以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].start |
12254.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].end |
12275.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].text |
最後幾十秒我講一下因為有很多公務員跟我們說這個申訴平台他們就覺得是很黑箱他們也不是那麼信任那是不是可以麻煩你們事後再追蹤的時候幫我們多加一項就是去問一下這個檢舉人 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].start |
12277.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].end |
12299.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].text |
有沒有就是有人洩密或公開了他的資訊這件事情好不好我覺得這最重要喔公務員敢不敢檢舉很多人都是怕自己的身份被公開那你們可以做事後的跟他詢問有沒有這個事情然後要做個整理你才能夠再精進自己的這套系統吧我如果今天說我被霸凌了 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].start |
12301.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].end |
12320.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].text |
但是呢我又覺得說你們把這個事情公開出去會不會有這個狀況我覺得如果是這樣的話我反而當事人他會有疑慮因為他如果說他疑是怎樣怎樣應該是他服務的機關那個調查的機關他直接又跟他回應如果 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].start |
12321.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].end |
12350.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].text |
他一定要問這個議題的話反而會讓他覺得會再度受傷反而有其他的疑慮事情已經發生我只是說你們有說你們會做事後的追蹤那事後追蹤當然有包括到你有沒有處理好這個案子但是我只是想要知道一個點就是會不會有公務員他們擔心因為他們申訴之後他的事情被曝光出去那你們不用做最後了解一下這個狀況嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].start |
12352.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].end |
12371.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].text |
去做將來政策的微調跟委員報告就是說今天在這個平台的申訴來講即使是就是說他具名如果我們又再去問當事人說你們機關有沒有疑似洩密或是什麼其實對當事人來講可能他也會擔心說你們怎麼知道我這個案子 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].start |
12372.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].end |
12389.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].text |
你不是居民跟他們 他們不是居民跟你檢舉嗎對 但是如果說要去瞭解每一個人他有沒有疑似被洩密這個對當事人來講的話 他也會擔心說這個是不是他已經被洩密 我們才去這樣子問他 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].start |
12391.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].end |
12414.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].text |
所以這個部分剛剛人士想提到就是說 不然這樣好了啦 我想時間的關係啦我也不想再聽你們 因為我覺得你講的這個邏輯我聽不懂我邏輯我真的聽不懂 他今天具名跟你們檢舉你們事後問他們 每一案 通案每一案都問 而不是個案問通案都問說 你這個處理之後 你有沒有發現這個申訴小組把你資料流出去 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].start |
12415.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].end |
12442.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].text |
你就是問這樣子而已你說會造成他心裡什麼樣 這邏輯我不懂啦我們來設計一下就是整個結案以後會讓當事人去填對這個案子的滿意度或者因為這個是公務員最在乎的有沒有被申訴單位把他的資料流出去你認為說問他這個對他什麼傷害 我聽不懂你們的邏輯啦真的好那我請你兩個月內一樣把這個申訴平台處理方式還有這個我剛剛提到的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].start |
12443.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].end |
12471.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].text |
最後能不能夠去問這個申訴者他們對於有沒有被保密這個東西的想法你們看你們要怎麼做再麻煩你們告訴我我跟你說我不是找你們麻煩我只是說聽聽看他們的想法去做政策的微調我很肯定你們的政策但是竟然有公務員跟我們講他們很怕申訴完之後被申訴機那個處理機關流出去那你就了解一下嘛如果每樣問一問之後大家都很滿意那不是更棒嗎我的邏輯只是這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].start |
12472.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].end |
12475.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].text |
好 謝謝吳宗憲委員那確實啦這個霸凌的申訴這個部分追蹤的部分那個平台再跟吳委員來做一個說明那我們早上我看這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].start |
12487.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].end |
12512.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].text |
現在剩下上午的時間剩下二十幾秒而已我先來處理一下會議時間我們上午會議的時間我們就繼續進行到所有登記發言的委員巡打結束為止接下來我們有請鄭正全委員鄭正全委員不在鄭正全委員鄭正全委員不在我們接下來請吳立華委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].start |
12520.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].end |
12543.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].text |
謝謝主席 有請任市長這張最讚 來 請任市長委員長任市長 午安喔我今天的夜報上面有看到我們行政院人事總署非常關心有提到持續督促各機關依法足而禁用原住民及身心障礙人員特別是我們最新的數據 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].start |
12545.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].end |
12570.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].text |
表示禁用原住民呢比率高達521%那這代表著說很多的機關單位其實都有蠻多的原住民的人員公務員在遍佈那為了代表我們的族群主流化我是希望說是不是也有做一個分類的資料就是把原住民的事務機關 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].start |
12571.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].end |
12588.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].text |
跟非原住民的事務機關有沒有分開來的一個資料讓我們可以了解到目前這個族群主流化有沒有深入到我們全國各個行政機關那這是第一個那那個人事長我其實今天來是要幫忙關心園民會 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].start |
12590.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].end |
12615.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].text |
因為園民會 您應該很清楚它的業務包山包海不僅僅是從山上到海邊它還有教育的 文化的 內政的 地政的 社福的包括經濟 衛生 福利 甚至速發 它都有關心就只缺一個國防部 可以說是一個小內閣那以它的這個編制員額不到200人來講 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].start |
12617.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].end |
12639.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].text |
其實我們會替他很擔心因為這個機器很龐大遍佈全國所以呢 原民會其實對我們來講真的是我們最重要最高的一個原住民事務機關他很需要人力但是 任市長您應該很清楚我們前陣子 宣騰一時的 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].start |
12640.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].end |
12666.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].text |
就是原民會狠狠的被砍了百分之七的一個人力那就是16個族群委員被砍掉 您知道嗎我知道 所以你們有提41個人的爭言是 所以我要提的就是說當時我看到原民會的官網還大剌剌的PO了一個文章叫做原住民族權益不容踐踏 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].start |
12667.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].end |
12681.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].text |
上面還特別提到減少本會編制傷害自治發展等等然後提到說制度可以檢討體制可以革新但不歡迎這種報復式的修法那我們都很清楚確實 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].start |
12683.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].end |
12699.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].text |
我們整個看起來就是為了要來癱瘓為了要毀憲亂政 不容易執政那現在我講一句實在話 原民會還表達他的立場咧他還說他要復議 要來申請釋憲 絕對不容許那請教一下任市長 原民會有這樣子做嗎那我跟您講 我看起來是沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].start |
12712.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].end |
12734.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].text |
沒有所以我們希望說這個部分我們總是還是要走我們希望我們的機關能夠正常所以我在這邊就是特別要提到少了這些人力光是我們的文件站全國有580多個未來可能會增加到七八百個 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].start |
12735.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].end |
12751.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].text |
以前這些業務包括原家中心很多很多遍布在全國各地的業務都要有人去視察去輔導但是硬生生被砍了所以我想這個部分我希望人事長您能夠支持好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].start |
12753.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].end |
12773.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].text |
那個我們在2月27要收到延民會來的請證延合的需求事實上最近我們都很高密度的跟曾主委還有杜章副主委三位副主委在談這個整個人力需求基本上我們會分階段來和給市長的一個所以任市長您會支持對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].start |
12775.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].end |
12799.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].text |
我們會核實 因為我們還要會相關機關的意見那另外我也是要提到 原民會長期以來的困境就是留不住人 您要知道 我們很多原特考進來的他如果分發在原民會 分發在渡會地區他們滿了三年 滿了六年 三年他們會先回鄉 然後滿六年 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].start |
12801.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].end |
12827.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].text |
他們更希望的是去有原鄉家籍 山地家籍的地方服務這個你應該很清楚所以我先請教一下 就沒有誘因嘛所以如果說我們反過來講對於這些我們要培育的原住民的這些事務官有可能給他們生活家籍嗎在都會地區的生活津貼嗎有可能嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].start |
12831.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].end |
12838.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].text |
這個議題是不是允許我們整體去考量因為他們光是住在都會地區一萬五以上就沒了他們滿三年都急著趕快回去 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].start |
12840.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].end |
12866.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].text |
因為我跟原住民朋友非常熟 是所以我想跟人事長說如果可以最好但是還有一個方法就是有沒有辦法給園民會更多的員額而且是中高階的員額讓他們有一個升遷的管道至少他會留在園民會至少他為了要升遷他至少會留個十年以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].start |
12867.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].end |
12885.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].text |
就流動率就不會那麼高我坦白跟委員講齁我接任市長之後在台東縣的人事處長跟花蓮縣人事處長都是用原住民的同胞一個是布農族一個是台灣族不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].start |
12888.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].end |
12900.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].text |
我是非常重視這個區塊不是用嘴巴講我是用行動那花蓮還有一個檢任的職缺也是請原住民的同胞來謝謝那現在園民會呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].start |
12901.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].end |
12925.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].text |
原民會他本身我們長期就跟他配合的非常好所以我們增加員額然後我希望這個員額你至少給他們例如像7到9值等多一點因為他們回到原鄉鄉公署服務沒有什麼值等這個是官規官制我不能隨便答應你而且能力的增補我們也要會行政院相關單位那委員的 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].start |
12926.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].end |
12951.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].text |
意見我聽進去了好 謝謝任市長那這個部分就拜託您了那另外一個部分就是簡單的跟您提一下我也想聽聽看您的專業建議因為原民特考大家都知道長年它的開缺數跟它的分發人數有很大的一個落差這個您應該很清楚對不對所以大家也都在檢討所以我舉個例子 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].start |
12953.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].end |
12977.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].text |
現在我們有原住民族語言發展法上面他說要有語推人員但是我們用專案處理例如我們的幼教照顧法他有提到互助中心的族語教保員但是我們用專案計畫處理例如我們現在推動的長照它上面呢文件站的造福員也是用專案計畫處理我的意思是說其實還有很多的例子可以舉 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].start |
12978.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].end |
12999.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].text |
有沒有可能 既然這些是長期的計畫而且是未來社會發展所需要的一個長期的人力任市長 您覺得有沒有可能增加這一些類別考科我想我們再來跟研民會好好來溝通這一塊的所以您覺得 您可以提供專業的建議我們怎麼樣導向對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].start |
13002.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].end |
13014.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].text |
我會跟顏明慧一起來討論好 那就希望我們任總這邊就是經過今天這樣的一個質詢也能夠先給我在兩個禮拜內 先給一份告報告可以嗎好 OK好 謝謝 謝謝任市長 謝謝主席好 謝謝吳立華委員接下來請岳元之 岳元之委員岳元之 岳元之委員不在洪孟凱委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].start |
13038.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].end |
13038.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].text |
主席謝謝 麻煩請蘇人事長請人事長 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].start |
13044.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].end |
13070.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].text |
委員午安 委員市長午安今天是3月20號是郵政節本席剛10點去參加中華郵政的慶祝大會但是郵政節最近我們看到中華郵政的員工居然兩萬四千名都收到通知引發部分的員工不滿表達拒簽主要是說是要被要求說要簽署所謂的未在大陸涉及的拒絕書 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].start |
13072.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].end |
13089.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].text |
請教人事長,您知道說這個是屬於中華郵政單一個案還是我們國營事業都有被要求?有針對中華郵政嗎?我們是轉公文給交通部,當然是交通部轉的所以是交通部轉,那你們有要求說國營事業也應該要簽拒絕書嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[473].start |
13094.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].end |
13111.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].text |
他現在是一個階段性的主要是以軍公教核心能力先填這個國營事業員工是算軍公教人員他應該是算因為他裡面有些是算事業員工是用什麼樣的法 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].start |
13112.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].end |
13128.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].text |
勞基法還是軍公校人員它裡面有些是運用公務人員護法,有些是用勞基法是,但主要是適用勞基法如果水桶移轉呢,它也是適用公務人員的規定有多少比例這個我要查一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].start |
13131.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].end |
13151.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].text |
我們現在所謂的這個現行國營事業不管是糖店、油水、郵政等相關不管是交通部所屬、經濟部所屬大部分的員工都適用勞基法那我現在這樣請教是說這一個拒絕書到底我們的這個所謂的命令或是我們的行政教練法源依據在哪邊 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].start |
13153.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].end |
13167.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].text |
你剛有提到是說是人事總署轉給我們的交通部那交通部 你有要求交通部再轉下去沒有啊 交通部收到以後他們就會自己去處理啊所以是交通部的問題 不是你人事總署的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].start |
13169.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].end |
13197.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].text |
目前第一個階段我們理解的大概以軍公教這是是嗎 你講是軍公教嘛但是交通部他可能廓宜事業 因為真的有可能以所詳的廓宜事業他順便也轉下去因為有剛才委員提的交通部嘛 經濟部嘛還有財政部嘛 研究院嘛本席就看到因為國營事業員工並不是公務人員嘛適用的是勞基法就業服務法或勞基法相關規定僱主不能要求員工 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].start |
13198.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].end |
13217.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].text |
提供非所屬就業所需的隱私資料那這點 我覺得這也不是隱私資料啊這不是隱私資料嗎要不然你問說有一些相關的規定這個欄位事實上也是很簡單也沒有跟什麼隱私有關而且他也沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].start |
13218.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].end |
13242.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].text |
你如果不填也沒有處罰啊不填也沒有處罰是因為收到拒絕書之後大家有些員工嘩然反彈為什麼會現在在這時候要簽這個拒絕書也因此才會有單位出來講是說不填沒有關係但是今天當一個上級長官發了一個公文要求所有員工都填的時候你認為有員工敢不填嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].start |
13243.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].end |
13257.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].text |
這不是慣老闆的心態嗎我現在老闆要你做什麼你員工就是下屬你員工就是反正聽我的就對了幾十年前或許會這樣可是現在年輕人的想法跟我們以前的想法會不一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].start |
13259.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].end |
13269.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].text |
他可能是覺得我根本不需要填 為什麼我要填是啊 那為什麼要發所以現在是說慣老百姓九字一條 全國適用人事長 我先再請教我們現在的現行規定國營事業是不是已經禁止雙重國籍 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].start |
13279.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].end |
13298.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].text |
國營事業你如果是管理階層的事啊本來依規定國人就不能在中國大陸涉及否則就會註銷台灣身份證嘛對啊這就是法令上的規定啊所以現在入取的國營事業的員工是不是本來就已經沒有他只有台灣身份證嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].start |
13300.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].end |
13320.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].text |
如果說他有中國大陸的設計的話他早就被註銷了根本不可能入局啊所以你現在是在配合政府當入局的時候他沒有對方的可是過去這幾年來可能他服務10年20年這期間他有去入局我們會做一個普查的概念 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].start |
13321.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].end |
13339.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].text |
所以現在您承認現在是做普查的概念所以你現在就是承認在探尋隱私做普查的概念但是你的法源依據沒有錯 軍公教我剛剛開宗明義就說我沒有在討論軍公教嘛我現在討論的是國營事業是不是適用你的相關法令嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].start |
13341.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].end |
13359.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].text |
有嗎國營事業的員工是勞基法除非你修法提出來修法讓國人知道說現在連國營事業只要是用勞基法的甚至未來可能你如果說勞基法要修法的話那私人企業也都要拒絕啊也都要拒絕 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].start |
13360.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].end |
13388.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].text |
國營事業裡面有很多人是公監了尤其在管理階層的我們當然是要求...多少比例你剛剛沒有講清楚但大部分國營事業現在就是沒有公務人員的身份嘛報告委員 那個批論我們請你一個人上去給你好不好所以 人事長您站在人事的角度本席為什麼會提出來重點在於是您站在人事的角度您應該是要保障的是我們所有員工的權益 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].start |
13390.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].end |
13414.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].text |
保障的是我們所有不管是公教人員不管是我們國營事業人員員工的權益不是嗎來 任市長我再請教一下上午我知道你有答詢的時候已經有接收到說勞動節你認為是說可以由全國統一放假是不是我不反對這樣的一個open discussion |
| transcript.whisperx[488].start |
13415.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].end |
13427.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].text |
不反對這樣的一個公開討論對對不對那但是在前兩天內政委員會在做這個討論修法的時候我們人事總署的意見是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].start |
13430.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].end |
13450.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].text |
那一天沒有問我們意見啊有啊我們有書面報告書面報告你忘了看是不是當然有啊 那一天問了好幾個部會教育部 國防部 人事總署都有啊一定是尊重主管機關所以你是尊重嘛 你不反對你沒有把你不反對寫出來嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].start |
13451.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].end |
13464.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].text |
我再來請教因為你去年九月有回應是說統一放假是取決於內政部是否修改相關的辦法人事總署再加以調整但是你會跟內政部溝通啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].start |
13465.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].end |
13494.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].text |
那既然現在勞動節五一其實從2016年前蔡英文總統她宣誓就說全國應該要有一致性的時候我們很多的民進黨的委員有提案啊要五一勞動節應該全體放假第九屆有這樣的提案第十屆有這樣的提案到第十一屆現在有好幾個委員的版本那我想請教人事總處人事長有沒有再積極的跟我們內政部來溝通 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].start |
13497.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].end |
13520.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].text |
是不是已站在全國休假一致性避免造成困擾的一個情況下我相信過去這幾年你應該有接收到很多我們公教人員對你的反應對你的陳情 對你的拜託認為說五一勞動節是不是有機會能夠全國一致適用沒有 我沒有接到我們同仁因為我們同仁沒有跟我提這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].start |
13521.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].end |
13549.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].text |
任市長 如果你講這樣的話我就覺得你真的是活在雲端啊你跟基層的員工距離太遠了你既然可以這樣子講代表你跟基層的員工距離太遠了你活在雲端 你活在辦公室你沒有接收到我們全國廣大軍公教人員的心聲我感到非常失望 謝謝好 謝謝黃孟楷委員的質詢好 那接下來我們請徐欣盈委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].start |
13556.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].end |
13573.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].text |
謝謝主席 本席請蘇俊榮人事長請人事長委員午安人事長好 今天本席想跟你就教在AI時代來臨了 您有感受到嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].start |
13575.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].end |
13592.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].text |
有啊那準備了嗎很強烈那整個我們行政部門面對AI時代來臨有沒有任何的準備我跟委員報告在上一年的6月6號我們就簽成行政院院長也批示了我們就啟動公務機關的 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].start |
13594.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].end |
13614.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].text |
一個人工智慧的一個導入的一個計畫然後我們也分好幾個梯次招訓了所有的部會首長還有次長還有機關首長甚至司長、次長這是屬於High Level的部分我們有辦Training再來我們上一年也辦了一個梯次的總值班就是針對90等的科長 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].start |
13616.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].end |
13633.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].text |
就是三天兩夜然後考上完課以後他要去考照上第一梯是36個人其中有33位有拿到那個AIA的一個AI人工智慧的一個認證那我們為了讓更多的公務同仁可以上網去學習我們總共開了180 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].start |
13637.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].end |
13660.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].text |
一個小時的課程 那累積到現在大概49萬5千人有去上課那今年我們預計會再開五個班級的那一種核心種植人員的一個訓練大概每一梯是36 五個梯是大概會培訓180位喔 非常好耶本席有聽到你們一直在做準備 而且開始訓練了 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].start |
13662.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].end |
13686.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].text |
那您知道進入AI時代它很大的一個特性是什麼嗎或是就你了解AI的最大的特性它帶來了很多的機會當然它也有一些風險不是它帶來機會你要發展AI你很重要的準備是什麼你除了訓練人員你本身我覺得人才是最重要啊當然 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].start |
13689.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].end |
13706.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].text |
也會牽涉到所謂的算力啦有一些算力的部分不過這個部分你指的是大量的計算嗎大量的計算那好 OK OK 非常好那現在我們公部門有一個情況就是可能資料開放不足會限制AI發展因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].start |
13707.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].end |
13727.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].text |
也要用AI 我相信您剛剛雖然沒有講但是未來AI怎麼協助我們公部門它有大量的數據可以提供我們做決策而且更有效率那所以首先它必須也要有大量的數據所以我們在公部門的部分我們要提供的各種相關數據這一塊有共識嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].start |
13730.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].end |
13759.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].text |
所以國科會他們有國科會有發展所謂的泰德泰德的這個大型遺言模型LLM那現在持續在精進那當然委員提的這個部分我們也面臨到如何去鼓勵更多政府機關把他的資料把它拋出來直接再進到因為你的資料的模型的數量越多的時候你在AI使用上的精準度效果會更好 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].start |
13760.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].end |
13784.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].text |
對我們希望能夠有資料共享所以我相信任市長您認同我非常認同對你非常認同那很好那我們未來是不是好好來推動那整個的政府治理我們希望能夠提升行政效率AI它也可以幫助我們優化一些政策還有一些公共管理所以資料共享的這一塊 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].start |
13785.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].end |
13801.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].text |
有在進行嗎資料共享的部分 事實上我最近有跟樹化部黃部長提過三次如何去引導鼓勵政府機關願意把資料放出來因為有些機關對資料放出來會比較保守 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].start |
13806.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].end |
13827.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].text |
因為有很多像財政數據、交通數據甚至我們的醫療數據這一塊我們既然人事長都有這樣的想法我們希望可以往這個方向再來就是AI是不是有目標未來會不會導入這種績效考核機制 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].start |
13827.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].end |
13857.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].text |
你們有開始炒車方案來討論或是推動了嗎我跟委員報告以人種來講我們第一個就是人事法規因為人事法規有時候也比較複雜心境當然也比較不清楚所以我們從上一年就開始導入人工智慧就是在人事法規的一個應用那上一年我們又導入了會議紀錄產生器就開完會以後大概半個小時你們那個軟硬體都有啦軟硬體都已經建置啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].start |
13857.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].end |
13866.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].text |
我坦白講喔 這一些還好啦沒有花那麼大的費用這個確實它需要一些軟硬體 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].start |
13868.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].end |
13894.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].text |
我們勉強在既有的資訊預算雖然被砍了很多可是我們還是要擠一點因為對國家整體競爭力還有行政效率提升有關我們還是要努力所以我們希望AI未來納入整個績效的考核機制可以讓各部門導入AI之後行政作業時間看可不可以縮短然後服務滿意度可以來提升甚至成本降低 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].start |
13895.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].end |
13913.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].text |
這是我們努力的方向本席今天特別在這邊質詢也就是希望說您可以朝這個方向我們未來行政部門的效率還有進入AI時代我們的行政院團隊就是AI智慧行動團隊所以希望您能夠大力的來促成好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].start |
13913.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].end |
13942.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].text |
這些事情都放在心上要付諸行動我剛才跟委員報告了就是從上一年12月開始我們就開始啟動各個不同階段的一個導入的一個計畫對那我最後講的整個未來的績效考核各方面還有那個變名錄希望下一次您再來報告的時候我們應該可以就更進一步來做了解好不好可以可以好謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].start |
13944.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].end |
13967.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].text |
好 謝謝習俊宇委員好 叫你點名所有登記發言委員都已發言完畢我們訊打結束那委員質詢的時候要求提供相關資料或以書面答覆者請相關機關儘速送交個別委員及本會那我們本次會議進行到此結束現在散會 謝謝大家 |