| IVOD_ID |
165358 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165358 |
| 日期 |
2025-11-13 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-4-35-14 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期外交及國防委員會第14次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
14 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
35 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
外交及國防委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期外交及國防委員會第14次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-11-13T09:56:32+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-11-13T10:10:02+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:13:30 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fffa2c65c610face020b8cf97dd905615cb08f7d303ca8f4999b3dda73827680d6b39e882d62cf0b5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
王定宇 |
| 委員發言時間 |
09:56:32 - 10:10:02 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-11-13T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期外交及國防委員會第14次全體委員會議（事由：邀請國防部部長顧立雄報告「國軍編現比提升之具體方案及因應作法」，並備質詢。（11月12日及13日二天一次會）） |
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好 謝謝主席 麻煩總市館長黃峰英黃市館長好 請總市館長市館長 第一次來我們這邊備詢嘛好 歡迎你代表基層的市官我請教你很簡單的幾個問題那麥克風要打開 要不然不能做會議記錄 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
30.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
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第一個 我們現在在連籍的市官長 市督啦有的我們會把他提升到營的市督是選優派上去 還是選菜鳥倒楣的派上去原則上當然是選優上去原則上是選優 那現況是什麼同樣會選優真的嗎是 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
52.284 |
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你知道基層嘛那連的士官長願不願意去當市都那個營的市都基本上因為現在戰鬥加急的關係就願不願意他會有這種現象就不願意嘛所以不願意我這連的士官長123等我們現在派一個上去營喔看起來是變大囉然後現在大家都覺得不想去會派誰去 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
77.894 |
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103.274 |
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包委員通常主官都還是會去勸那些那個資深的幹部去所以變成要接銀市都的要用勸的勸不聽的就倒楣或者是菜鳥對啊這個我沒有怪任何人我待會講制度出現的問題在哪裡那銀市都跟聯市都做的工作一不一樣基本上一樣但是量能不一樣內容一樣量更大好謝謝總事館長我們請部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
105.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
108.152 |
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我剛才提這個問題我們今天的主題是邊線筆總市長你請回我們每次談到邊線筆不足 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
118.086 |
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141.874 |
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我們軍方常提出來就是 掃紙化 工作環境 薪資報酬 部隊的管理那我們多講一點還有榮譽感 都在招募上或留營對不對 處理留營率 處理招募 這兩件事情我覺得這也重要 但這是治標 什麼標呢 就是結果它的源頭有幾件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
142.634 |
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第一個我們的邊莊以及我們的透過薪資專長加擠有沒有把人力資源丟到對的地方以及本席上一次就建議我也跟這個劉佩芝中央提過我們軍方要建立一套科學的叫做這個戰力域值也就是threshold最小的臨界點我先剛才講我剛才問市都的事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
169.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
183.133 |
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國軍現在有一些制度是謬誤的反淘汰而我現在質詢你不是要給你聽而已我們請行政院的人長財主聽清楚我現在講的問題你不能站在你們自己的位置去思考國軍問題第一個我們國軍現在連級的士官長 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
187.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
201.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
他有第一類戰鬥家級第二類戰鬥家級我們4月1號給他們加了薪水所以有12000或7000元結果你表現很好你資深我讓你升上去當營的市官長市督 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
202.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
221.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
事情更多 內容一樣 不好意思 你沒有戰鬥家籍所以你的薪水馬上少一萬二 少七千我能怪這些連的市館長不願上去接嗎我不能怪他啊 這是制度造成的反淘汰部長你知道有這個問題嗎是 我有瞭解這個問題會怎麼發生的 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
223.612 |
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242.741 |
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我想現在正在研議就是說這個士官長的這個分職因為時間的關係就我了解國防部有提出要爭取銀勢都應該也列入戰鬥家級是被採組人士擋下來的 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
243.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
252.938 |
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這不對啊 行政院的長官這不對我如果聽到的不是正確 請糾正我另外一個例子 我可以舉很多例子剛才我聽到 我自己是屏東六聯隊出來的 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
254.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
279.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
我們機務大隊沒有戰鬥佳績他要站安官 他要修飛機沒有後勤 哪有飛行所以他沒有戰鬥佳績 不合理啊所以你把8月份提出我們今天質詢這個我們希望行政院負責這部分的長官聽進去我再舉個例子我們的中衛擔任排長 副連長有沒有戰鬥佳績 有嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
282.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
311.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
我們也是給他加薪的 我們4月1號部長的加薪方案就是第一類戰鬥家級一萬二 第二類七千結果他升官了耶 他把他升到上位那以前大家當然要佔缺啊 佔高缺是好事啊我一直看他們升到像陳建義這個缺啊但是這一升上去 他當了上位有可能到營部旅部做參謀這兩個家級通通沒有了艦隊也有這個事情 少校 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
312.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
327.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
少校連長我可以領戰鬥佳績中校營長帶好幾個連沒有戰鬥佳績所以少校連長的薪資報酬高於中校部長有這個情形嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
330.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
350.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
就這個整體的這個新制的一個規劃我想我們隨時都在檢討當中那特別跟委員報告就是說剛剛提到的士官督導長就是說行政院在108年的時候他的意思應該是說希望我們能夠朝分職分等的這個方式來去 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
351.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
371.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
來去做所以我們現在108年到現在也過好幾年了對對對所以現在我們這個分值分等的這個部分我想我們會來考慮比照美國美國的話大概分六級我現在提的因為今天的時間的問題我沒辦法把全部的問題細項列出來這些問題不解決會造成人力的反逃在資深的不願意戰缺 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
373.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
389.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
對 所以我們要有一個這個是人力資源的浪費嘛所以我們要有一個整體的規劃所以我跟你講第一個問題就我們的制度所以我們常常講加薪大家都愛但真正內行了解部隊的我寧可提供一個額度讓國防部跟我們的部隊針對各項專長家級 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
392.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
420.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
把人力配置辛苦的高危險性的透過高額加給把人力配置到比較難招募的而不是齊頭式的加兩萬加三萬那樣子會讓部隊反而產生了逆淘汰第二個我們的邊桩是源頭我們今天在市委拚命的搞招募搞留營提高我們的營舍各方面的待遇還有精神戰力士氣這是對的 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
421.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
437.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
但是我們邊莊應該怎麼樣重新思考我們原來思考是因為現代化 我裝備現代化了裝備更新了 我邊莊就會更新因是裝備現代化 果是人員變少我舉自走砲 A2 A5到A7 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
439.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
456.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
從6人編制到4人或者我們的諾克斯級成功級編制200多人我們現在用清巡是90人他就是很明顯我的裝備現代化高度自動化AI化我可以把人員編制往下降所以以前的鷹是裝備現代化 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
456.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
473.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
如果是邊桩往下降邊桩往下降你招募的那個臨界點當然就往下降嘛你的邊線比那個分母不同分子雖然一樣但是你會變大而且這是合理的變大但是我們現在可不可以把英國反過來我建議國安部去思考 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
474.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
499.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
我們應該要考慮少子化是一個客觀的現實日本美國北約招募都有問題德國也招不足這是一個客觀的現實所以我們現在在思考我們裝備的時候要把這個納入考量我如何透過自動化無人化現代化的裝備把我的戰力預值我再一次提到這個名詞就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
500.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
510.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
合理的最臨界點低於這個部隊不能出戰的戰力域值把它修到合理的標準我舉例子我們的我們的這個155榴彈砲我們155榴彈砲現在有310餘門每一門滿編9個一個班 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
519.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
534.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
那他一定有個最小戰力域值可能我六個 砲操少跳兩步我六個就可以操作了但是我如果裝備我先去思考我把想要控制人力編制當作因來思考裝備的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
536.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
554.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
那全世界有很多自走的155榴彈砲三個人就能操作他又可以提高存活率又可以把我們九變三那我原來招募也許是四個我只達標到48%但是我透過裝備的自動化現代化AI無人化往下一掉掉到三 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
555.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
576.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
我還超標變100多我還可以把人力移到缺源的地方部長你懂我意思嗎所以這是一個邊桩的重新思維把因果反過來想我們一定要去思考我們現在少子化的狀況另外我們在後備的動員的部分我們剛才講邊時我剛才聽到不知道是哪一位長官講的說沒有問題進入緊急狀況之後我們邊時動員就會滿邊了 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
579.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
602.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
可是我們現在剛好正值我們國家進入裝備現代化戰車 我們現在會淘汰一些CM11 M1 我們M1A2進來了我們的戰機 我們的海馬4 我們很多新的裝備我們現在退下來會操作M60 CM11的裝甲兵將來我鞭石動員的時候 它不會操作M1A2 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
604.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
619.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
變成你鞭石動員的時候原來具有高專精高專長的人再回來變沒用的人通通去當步槍兵所以應該要現在就要準備我們用兩個禮拜的後備訓練根本無法訓練高專精的人 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
620.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
638.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
所以怎麼樣利用他還在部隊的時候我用10% 20%讓他熟悉新的專長讓這個後備戰力的眾生他縱使離退了有一天我要鞭石動員他回到部隊可以回到高專精高專長至少他的觀念會比一般步槍兵高否則 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
640.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
658.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
裝備不見啦我是一個裝甲兵我是一個什麼樣高專精高專長的我回來之後我變什麼都不會我只能把我放到步槍兵上面這個對這昂貴的人力成本上來講是不划算的部長我對這些件我不知道部長有什麼想法 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
658.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
678.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
是 剛剛委員的指教都很正確我想特別講一下就是說我們現在剛剛提到的就是我們新式的武器進來之後那麼它也許退伍的是比較要操作老式的武器所以我們現在會比較鞭死的動員是比較著重於現在常備的部隊叫鞭死動員那這個部分我剛才講就是常備對 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
679.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
706.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
我現在會希望我們會希望他們同步退下來我們著重在四年內那援兵歸援衛然後讓他能夠熟裝 熟練這個我剛才講的是因為現在剛好在換裝啦對 那這個換裝的期間之內我們就會考慮到他退伍的當下要能夠去熟悉新式的裝備然後呢 他四年內教召每年教召回來的時候也要讓他去熟悉新式的裝備 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
708.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
736.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
比方說CM11要淘汰了或者小A機OH58要淘汰了他們離開之前新的專長訓練不可能有訓到他們啦那他們再回來裝備不見了所以這一塊的戰力在我們現在的訓練上面我建議薰吃四哥方面應該要納入考量否則將來的後備戰力的眾生會缺一塊這個問題談不完我今天要建議國防部的就是要思考 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
737.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
763.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
自動化AI無人化在思考裝備的時候把人力資源現在少子化的狀況納入考量把它列入原因作為邊桩更新然後重新審視我們國軍各單位的戰力最小域值stress hold美軍是有這個然後以後我們在國防委員會看到你們拿出來的表不再是陸海空軍把我們邊線比79 76點多不是而是 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
764.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
782.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
比方說小到海軍陸戰隊它的最小域值是多少目前邊線比達到多少我們才能知道哪些單位可能缺乏什麼誘因它戰力可能會形成問題所以我建議我們部長可以下令我們相關參謀單位開始去研究我們國軍部隊最小出動的臨界點 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
786.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
803.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
戰力域值 把戰力域值 把每個單位把它標出來之後我們才知道資源怎麼配到哪一個應該硬處的地方這個給部長做建議所以我們現在正在研析那我想組織的調整要以科技取代人力 火力取代重點這個原則 那我們依照我們貨裝的行程來滾隨時滾動來修訂我們的組織變裝謝謝部長好 謝謝王定宇委員 |