| IVOD_ID |
165350 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165350 |
| 日期 |
2025-11-13 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-4-20-8 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期財政委員會第8次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
8 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
20 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
財政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期財政委員會第8次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-11-13T09:39:08+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-11-13T09:50:32+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:11:24 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fffa2c65c610face1f12bfb8afa3dd0ffa47f864c5dfb45abff109ec8167494804c117b4160d12fc5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
吳秉叡 |
| 委員發言時間 |
09:39:08 - 09:50:32 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-11-13T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期財政委員會第8次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請財政部莊部長翠雲、行政院主計總處陳主計長淑姿、中央銀行副總裁、國家發展委員會葉主任委員俊顯、經濟部次長、勞動部次長、衛生福利部次長就「經濟成長讓全民共享：政府如何縮短所得差距暨改善相對貧窮化之對策」進行專題報告，並備質詢。
二、審查本院民進黨黨團擬具「財政收支劃分法第十六條之一未分配款運用暫行條例草案」案。） |
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主席麻煩請主席長請主席長委員好主席長早您的報告早上我有研讀看了現在的問題是社會上的信任度不夠你跟他講說台灣這些年的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
31.508 |
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57.493 |
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基尼係數如果抽掉戶數上面因為戶有人數的問題照世界的標準用人來計算我們都在很安全的範圍內他就說你他不會去接受的啦因為他已經先有答案了嘛他就說講得最極端的有一些人認為台灣民不聊生耶你還跟他講說我們的經濟發展不錯然後他就跟你講說中等這個中產階級要消滅了 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
60.393 |
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有的人不是在對話他是先有結論然後才要來跟你講一些真的到最後講不過你的時候說你都引用冰冷的數字啊你不去顧個別人的這個感受了但是因為我們是討論政策我們不是在討論個人的救濟啊 |
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81.092 |
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所以我是要讓你了解要有信心還是要照回答你講的他也聽不懂照我繼續念就他的結論就繼續講這樣你了解嗎但是我們該做的事情要做的是我覺得有一樣東西就是說如果你一定要用這個收入的十等份或五等份去分那當然就是 |
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104.028 |
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最高跟最低之間就是會有倍數的差距是一定有的但是如果你想想看如果是整體都能夠拉伸的話整體都能夠拉伸的話當然他的希望是說那個高所得的這個拉伸的比例要降低然後低所得拉伸的比例要升高有逐漸在做到如果從你的報告上面來看但是事實上 |
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有既定看法的人是不會接受你這樣的講法你覺得呢是 謝謝委員指導但是事實上我們經濟成長是優於亞洲四小龍整個狀況是很好包括我們整個GDP的一個成長都是很好然後我們的一個貧富差距其實在整個裡面算平均的並不是很大 |
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如果你從好的方面來講台灣的經濟成長率高然後CPI就是物價指數上漲的比例也是低這樣就是1點多那1點多其實是符合全世界2%的CPI在2%以內1%以上2%以內是一個最好的區間低於1%國際的學者就認為就是通縮了有通縮的危險了那高於2%就被認為是通貨膨脹那我們台灣 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
178.171 |
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200.556 |
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央行在處理匯率也很嚴謹然後大家也很保守所以說控制在一點多然後政府對於那大宗物資如果國際之間的價格有漲有在很大的變動說我們台灣這邊就是用一些稅收的方式減免他的稅讓他能夠讓這個大宗物資不要漲價這個政策是都有對應 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
202.196 |
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但是在這樣的狀況下我們先不講說我們的國民購買力是人家的幾倍光今年預估的國民所得GDP相對比起來GDP就已經勝過韓國跟日本那日本原因當然是因為日幣大幅貶值的原因那我們先不管日本那個原因我們就贏過韓國這樣子也能夠講成說台灣民不聊生 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
227.748 |
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255.149 |
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這我也不知道怎麼跟他對話因為你如果跟他講說我看到的數字不是這樣他就跟你講說沒有沒有你這個冰冷的數字喔你要沒有溫度所以你們講這個都不可信第二個就是明明我們的薪資成長跟我們的最低工資的成長比CPI還要高然後他就跟你講說沒有喔收入在萎縮喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
257.642 |
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276.262 |
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我假設我的薪資成長是2然後我的CPI是1.5我實質的收入當然是指總數相來看還是有0.5的增加 他也不跟你講他說沒有啊 就是所得都在萎縮啊大家都在貧窮化啊 都活不下去啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
277.11 |
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296.32 |
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跟委員報告我們每次公布的時候都有把那個平均的薪資扣掉實質就是CPI的一個成長的因素然後去算然後平均的一個那個所得然後也有去算每人的然後所以我們扣除以後每人薪資都實際成長是1.87% |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
299.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
320.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
是啦 但是你這1.87人家跟你說這數字我個人沒有漲薪水啊所以我的扣掉CPI之後我的薪水是在萎縮就是從個人的角度來看事情他永遠有話講但是如果你從總體的整體的數字來看事實上成長然後他就開始跟你講說你那個是冰冷的數字啊我感受不到啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
321.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
332.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
但是我們中位數也是增加的你從統計數字跟他講道理他就跟你講說我不要跟你講這個我要跟你講我的感受所以我是覺得這個事情的討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
336.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
360.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
這很不容易啦但是要繼續大刀闊斧的在往這方面能夠來進步這是更好啦是 我們提供數據給相關的部會來做參考很困難啦 因為為什麼這個最低工資的上漲都只有3%多 4%多因為要考量到經營者啊他一方面講說啊 經營者這個環境很不好啊我們的這個關稅比人家高啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
361.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
378.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
同時他就要求說 那你那個薪資要給人家賬啊那這我也不知道就以經營者的角度要怎麼講經營者說 那我經營者怎麼辦經營者總是企業要能夠賺錢才有辦法維持企業的存在啊那企業的存在才有辦法提供工作機會啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
379.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
394.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
是我們要鼓勵企業加薪但是企業遭遇到譬如相關的一個困難譬如說關稅的一個問題這個部分我們要來協助所以這個部分我在經濟部這方面也編列相當多的預算包括特別預算回過頭來一個感想就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
398.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
424.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
從自己的角度來看事情對自己都要最好對自己政府的照顧永遠不夠那都是需要大政府但當政府的管理或是處罰行政處罰到他的身上說你這個政府這是亂七八糟的你不要來管我啊所以我是覺得基本上人都有這樣的特性講到利益的時候要極大化講到不好的地方的時候你都不要來給我管制 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
426.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
432.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
賺錢自己本事高啦 賠錢政府害的啦簡單來講就是這樣 又回到這一句啦你請回座 請財政部長部長我要跟你請教你知不知道加熱菸現在已經有兩家可以販售一家是美國公司 一家是日本公司 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
451.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
456.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
健康風險評估 衛福部已經通過兩家大概有14個品項加熱菸通過了那大概都是屬於專人進口國內的產製部分還沒有通過那菸菌跟菸碎的問題大概是可以得到一部分的紓解因為以前有一些吸脂菸的如果替代成加熱菸你加熱菸不讓它合法化你菸菌跟菸碎是漏掉了 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
473.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
502.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
那現在既然已經有合法的那價格會比這個原來走私的還要低所以大家基本上我認為大部分會去走合法的路當那個加熱菸經過健康風險評估可以在正常的管道上面去銷售的話那讓稅讓國家納入管理然後稅也可以按正常的來收取我覺得這是一個好的這個是你對整個國家的這個稅捐的部分那你底下有一間研究公司 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
503.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
512.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
你的菸酒公司設備什麼都已經準備好了現在他就是在跟國健署在申請這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
514.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
535.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
核准嘛就你知道你的菸酒公司遇到的困境你了解嗎了解我們菸酒公司董事長也多次的反應那當然必須要符合衛福部讓他通過健康風險評估我們會積極的去跟衛福部溝通你有跟衛福部溝通嗎有的我們有跟他最近審核多不合理你知道嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
536.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
554.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
對於你們菸酒公司多不合理他說你們菸酒公司不能夠拿外國這個加熱菸的這些資料健康風險評估來橋接啦所以要用他自己的產品去做人體實驗那沒有得到核准你菸酒公司哪來的產品啊那也沒辦法實驗嘛這顯然不可行嘛那你們財政部為什麼不跟衛福部反應說你這個這麼離譜呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
568.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
591.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
我們也多次有跟衛福部去溝通全人類台灣的人吸加熱菸跟外國人吸加熱菸在健康風險名顧上面是不一樣的嗎那同樣在審查的程序上前年說可以可以這樣子橋接過來那對自己菸酒公司喔我們供股的喔那今年跟他講說不可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
593.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
621.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
那我想請問 現在核准那兩家的這個資料是外國來的還是在台灣做人體實驗的外國 他們都是從外國 只是沒有在台灣那為什麼進口商可以用外國的這個健康的這一些的指標 這一些的實驗然後來做報告就可以通過台灣的廠商 而且是公股的 這不是私人喔全部都是公家的 百分之百公股他說不可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
623.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
650.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
這樣子的審查標準你財政部能接受嗎我想這個部分我們會再進一步跟衛福部再來做溝通你不趕快溝通的話我要再往上去衝了我就跟你講我在這邊為了這個事情我已經講過很多次了這是為了公家的利益跟個人私人無關啦如果你現在看只有日本跟美國的廠商可以在台灣賣加熱煙那台灣的煙酒公司要做加熱煙被這樣子的方式刁難這樣子給它拒絕 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
653.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
670.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
兩三年後市場都被佔滿了那台灣煙酒公司台灣的煙公司要賣給誰還是乾脆煙酒公司關起來算了應該要有一個合理的標準來做審核對啊那你遭遇到不合理的標準你要據理力爭啊不是說那是衛福部的煙火讓衛福部去處理啊不會好不好加油謝謝謝謝委員接下來我們請賴世寶委員 |