| IVOD_ID |
165328 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165328 |
| 日期 |
2025-11-12 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-4-26-9 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第9次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
9 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
26 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
社會福利及衛生環境委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第9次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-11-12T13:25:44+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-11-12T13:35:22+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:09:38 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/a35f0de19abcdbe34c9e0edffb6f2f27b62a46119727b9b985b487800f276530a1c492a21a7eb66e5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe |
| 委員發言時間 |
13:25:44 - 13:35:22 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-11-12T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第9次全體委員會議（事由：邀請勞動部部長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。） |
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謝謝主席 有請洪部長來 請部長部長好我們原住民立委都很關心我們原住民族勞工的職災狀況那特別是最嚴重的就是根據這個統計看起來呢是營造業再來就是製造業 |
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那麼這幾個行業那它的一個實在在這麼多年的關注之下我們往往也發現其實它的件數不減反增啦所以我們也很想去了解說到底是要怎麼樣去做才有辦法有效的來改善這種情形那曾經監察院審計部有提過就是特別糾正勞動部他們的看法是說 |
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我國的勞檢人力不足會導致勞工檢查過低那不足以有效的嚇阻雇主違法行為及提供安全的工作環境所以我想特別先請教一下部長針對這個前兩名就是營造業 製造業我們原住民比較容易發生的一個職災類別那目前的勞檢覆蓋率大概是怎麼樣 |
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跟委員說明其實勞檢的人力確實一直以來都相對比較辛苦的所以我們一直在跟行政院跟人總在爭取是不是能夠有更多的這個人力的名額但的確這裡面會涉及到這個整個員額編制上面的狀況所以在爭取上所以我們盡量希望能夠再多提高一些勞檢員他的勞動的條件或相關的這個家籍的部分來去協助 |
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那目前的這個覆蓋率我請署長這邊來說署長請跟委員報告確實現在我們原住民的勞工朋友主要是在這個高風險的營造業跟製造業那也跟委員報告光營造業我們一年的勞檢的常識就相當於到11萬常識所以這個兩個行業一直是我們一個檢查重點 |
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164.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
所以意思就是說在人力這些年持續不足的狀況下但是老減覆蓋率還是有在注意有在提升嗎那為什麼我這樣子問因為我們發現好像我們怎麼做都會 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
166.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
192.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
就是道高一尺 謀高一丈啊我們往往發現這種層層轉包的這種方式其實我們在接受一些陳情案的時候也很困擾我們因為有很多隱匿的狀況那舉個例子來講我們很多發生的狀況就是他如果受傷了 在工地受傷了會發現說不准叫救護車因為他們都會知道說這樣子報公安 報勞檢 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
194.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
208.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
可能就會被要求停工或怎麼樣所以他們就會有很多的方式去規避去隱匿那你覺得我們營建業 製造業有多少是因為這樣的原因被隱匿起來跟這個委員報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
213.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
232.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
基本上我們其實現在也在新的這個責任法的修正條文裡面其實規定如果你有你就是該通報不通報的狀況的話其實最高可以罰到450萬我就是知道說你們有在進行修法嗎好那可不可以說明一下修法的方向目前就是把罰則部分我們會把它給提高 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
234.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
259.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
然後包括營造業剛剛在委員在講的尤其是營造業的狀況的確我看到的情況是因為他的這個層層的分包讓他的責任很難追究所以這一次我們其實也在食安法的修法裡面明定了業主的責任也包括是在這層層轉包過程裡面要有一個包商責任的統合機制就是希望要避免說發生了職災其實照理來說 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
261.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
275.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
更該負責的是一開始的業主或上面的大包可是最後卻都轉嫁變成是最下的小包然後做那個最基層的包商在承擔這個責任那這個其實不符合我們在整個工地裡面運作的狀況的認知 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
277.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
302.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
部長我是很高興因為我們也關切很久也知道你們在進行修法那我剛剛聽起來一方面是罰金加重二方面是對於這種層層轉包責任全部都要分攤但是要整合對整合但是我現在的意思是說像這個狀況我覺得也必須要去被瞭解被處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
303.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
331.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
因為他就是怕被停工他就是怕被罰錢所以他一定會有很多隱匿的狀況所以我的意思是說這個部分在修法的時候有沒有去考慮到跟委員說明的確因為現在這個狀況其實不只發生在原住民的勞工其實整體在我們很多營造業都有我們吉安法要修就是要這是一個破口漏洞現在當然相關的通報或者是申訴其實 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
332.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
362.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
包括家屬也都可以所以我們能夠做的當然是要把這個假設有這樣的狀況他被抓到的嚇阻要提高嘛這是把罰金給提高的這個狀況但是他就更怕被講他可能就會有其他後面的所以我覺得我們可以來思考怎麼樣讓這個通報或者是來申訴的門檻可以再降低這樣子那最後就是我再請教就是我其實是這樣子想啦有沒有可能就是成立一個原住民的公安推動小組 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
363.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
386.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
部長您的看法如何我覺得如果原民會有這樣子的想法的話我們當然可以跟原民會來討論好那我希望進行討論但是這部分就原住民的情境原住民的特性當然原民會會比我們更加的清楚只是他在職場上面的狀況在這部分我們能夠協助的我們願意來協助但是至少要有這個平台來開這個會如果原民會來跟我們討論的話我覺得我們可以來思考跟研議 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
386.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
404.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
那我也很感謝就是我有私下跟您提過就是救福法第12條有說縣市人口達2萬人以上可以來設立這個公立的原住民就業服務機構這是我5、6年前一直不斷訴求那很謝謝後來勞動部呢就是由中央 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
405.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
422.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
來協助買單所以目前有6個縣市有申請你們提供設施設備房屋租金租車人事費及業務費但是我盤了一下目前我們勞動部協助的這些原住民的救福據點 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
423.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
450.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
人力有28人那原民會呢他也用他的原住民的這些轉過來的貸金的這個就業基金他也做了各地方的一個舊府辦公室目前人力有79名那我們原本是這樣想就是把整合或讓他1加1大於2但是我們發現說現在有個問題就是有的縣市呢他會放在原民局處 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
451.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
469.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
有的縣市他會放在勞工勞動的局處那這個勞政單位的呢我們就發現很好為什麼因為他們可以撈到這些正式的這些資料那放在園民會的呢他們是撈不到這些資料 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
470.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
497.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
那另外就是說放在園民會的呢就很困擾了因為他們會變成是園民會的救人帶這些新人所以他們在磨合的部分也要花很多的時間那我不曉得說勞動部這邊有沒有一個想法我們怎麼樣讓這個原本我們希望整合或1加1大於2的這樣的一個救福人力 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
498.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
504.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
能夠讓它發揮功效所以我是想說部長有沒有可能就是勞動部邀請原民會 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
505.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
528.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
能夠一同的來就這件事情好好的坐下來跟各位說我是覺得我想我們跟地方政府在這部分合作我們不會我們主觀上不會想要去區分他是在哪個局處所以今天如果我們在資料上面資訊上面合作上面要借接的話我會請我們的同仁來擴大把各部會如果是放在原民局處的情況也納入 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
528.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
557.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
然後也納入我們聯繫的對象好不好就不是因為的確勞動部過去在地方政府我這樣說好了就是因為放的地方不一樣我們就會接到陳情所以我覺得是不是至少勞動部 園民會就是一同的來就這件事情聽聽這兩邊救福源的聲音可以可以我是這樣想我們勞動部當然可以找園民會甚至委員如果這邊要召開一些協調的話我覺得也是很好 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
558.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
574.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
那跨部會來針對他放在地方政府不同的局處我想我們都應該擴大的把它給納入在我們整個資源整合的過程裡面這樣子我們希望把這件事情把它成就起來啦好不要為德不足啦很可惜好謝謝部長謝謝主席好謝謝吳委員謝謝部長 |