| IVOD_ID |
165311 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165311 |
| 日期 |
2025-11-12 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-4-26-9 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第9次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
9 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
26 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
社會福利及衛生環境委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第9次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-11-12T12:02:10+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-11-12T12:16:49+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:14:39 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/a35f0de19abcdbe38632c2cc43896bb0b62a46119727b9b9cc7208a858208f5c81d98ccfcd6d1fbb5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
劉建國 |
| 委員發言時間 |
12:02:10 - 12:16:49 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-11-12T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第9次全體委員會議（事由：邀請勞動部部長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。） |
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好 謝謝主席 有請部長好 有請洪部長那感謝洪部長今天精闢的這個報告跟說明整本業務的報告有28頁我真的很用心的拜讀部長有詳細的說明勞動部在你帶領之下的方向與願景但我很遺憾 |
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28.55 |
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47.149 |
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這個整本的議務報告裡面找不到英文三個字部長知道是哪三個嗎找不到英文對找不到三個的英文字母沒有知道嗎猜到有講猜不到要把胡錫刮掉 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
53.104 |
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56.21 |
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應該是關注EAP的問題那你不用掛了 |
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59.249 |
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88.949 |
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就算是中文的員工協助方案很抱歉這六個字也沒有在這本報告裡面出現過當然在十五頁的時候你有針對這個加強營造友善職場環境落實這個職場的工作平權勞動部有很多的說明那諸如有提供這個安心生養的職場環境支持企業提供友善職場也加強這個宣導職場平權消米懷孕歧視等等等 |
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89.85 |
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這些確實都有說明但唯獨沒有提到勞動部到底要如何協助企業建立推動EAP因為去年在責安署霸凌事件中勞動部 衛福部等相關單位都認同AAP的重要性但沒有一個單位去落實能做好的就連勞動部 自己也離譜了去年12月也在這個質詢台本期特別質詢 |
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116.607 |
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124.659 |
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也提醒部長 就是說 勞動部的EAP平均一人500元左右而勞動部底下的2899 2899名的這個承攬人員 |
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129.56 |
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157.518 |
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不是用勞動部的員工協助方案那當時什麼部長有允諾會來改善是對 那今年啊到底現今的改善狀況怎麼樣部長可以說明一下嗎好 跟委員說明剛剛委員在講的是兩個部分第一個部分是針對企業的部分其實我們在114年2025年的時候其實我們辦了市場的教育的訓練那總共有超過2000人次的企業代表來參訓那就是希望能夠把 |
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174.502 |
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主管在這方面的敏感度跟關懷的部分能夠做到更到位那我們也有大概超過50家的入場的輔導這都是在針對企業的部分來進行那針對部裡面的部分的話因為委員其實也很關注所以我們那時候其實也承諾我們會把這個 |
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177.263 |
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193.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
EAP的範圍不只是放在我們的正式人力上面也包括我們的約聘的人員這些人員一併的納入到這裡面所以我們現在應該都已經放入到這裡面都變成是我們EAP的相關的對象但是部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
195.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
218.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
114年度勞動部的EAP預算是45萬115年度的勞動部EAP預算也是45萬那是部本部的對 部本部就不增加了那因為 抗論底下的所屬單位會增加那我們就拭目以待在審查預算的時候就好好來救教部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
218.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
245.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
因為比較多的越過人其實坦白說是在我們的所屬啦是 對 所以所屬都有增加有嗎我想預算審查時我一定會好好請教部長報告委員 我們今年的EAP的那個契約的那個預算是本來是235萬多那因為那個諮商的時數有擴增所以我們後來擴增到280萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
248.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
263.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
兩百八十萬 三千多萬 三千九百二十六元你講今年的嘛 對不對今年的 對嘛那明年我們也有在擴增擴增多少 大約明年我們擴增到三百五十萬左右 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
263.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
279.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
增加百分之二十 差不多嘛就那個單位而已還是總TOTAL 部跟所屬總TOTAL增加百分之二十到時候我們再好好討論好不好 謝謝那請部長看這個新聞 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
282.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
311.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
這家公司承攬多項政府部門的員工協助方案委外契約嘛依照採購契約要有合格的心理諮商等專業服務但政府員工在尋求諮商服務時察覺有異陳警檢舉發現創意老闆根本沒有心理師的證書卻親自提供諮商服務這台北體驗署已經在12日違反心理師法將這個老闆提起公訴了這部長知道嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
315.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
337.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
你們有委外他來做員工寫書方案嗎有做心理諮商的部分嗎有嗎勞動部有嗎你們不是這一家不是不是是哪一家報告委員我們不是這一家你們不是這一家好那你們不是這一家你們有這一家的狀況嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
338.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
358.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
我們了解這一家的狀況 可是我們沒有這一家對啊 你們不是委任這一家嗎那你們委任別家 別家有像這一家的狀況嗎沒有 你確定要不要再想一下我們目前的這一家是有合格的心理諮商的專業服務都直接在線上就直接有這個服務 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
359.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
381.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
你看這個是新聞已經出來了根據採購企業內容該公司需指派具有心理師資格的人來負責接聽電話接聽電話有些企業更要求有心理諮商這個諮商心理臨床心理相關工作必須達兩年以上的這樣的一個工作經驗但是實際上這個就是沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
382.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
408.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
本身沒有心理師的這個證書然後也沒有 當然就沒有什麼兩年以上的這些經驗嘛 對不對所以你們確定苗東部都有齁 都有具備嘛齁好 謝謝你知道我們工部門目前 尤其中央機關有多少 多少個單位委託這家公司嗎環境部 外交部 農業部 經濟部 教育部還有金門縣政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
409.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
433.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
我要提這個就是台灣現金在處理這個員工協助方案的一個處境不僅做不好甚至被人家騙了而且是一堆公部門被騙還好你們勞動部沒有被騙到歐密頭火部長也在做功德那公部門都會這個樣子你看民間企業會什麼樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
436.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
444.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
你看中央幾個部會啊 我剛練了五六個以上還有包含地方政府那如果公部門都這個樣子的我再強調一次 那企業部門會怎麼樣我們再看一個報導 天下雜誌有專題 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
453.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
477.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
霸凌性侵平轉為何企業員工協助方案失靈那這邊報導指出是EAP淪為刑事然後缺乏人性關懷企業引進EAP是基於企業形象而會真正關心員工所以我們勞動部在做EAP是要塑造勞動部的形象還是要真正關心我們相關的同仁 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
480.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
497.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
裡面提到一般企業組不太主動會提供EAP的協助很多是等到出事的時候甚至員工親身才會積極的去連結還是再去啟動這類的資源所以現今的企業EAP更像是事後補救 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
498.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
522.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
絕對不是事前的預防部長你再看一個數據我真的不曉得為什麼這樣因為這個EAP我已經講了兩三年而且是不只是部會我連院的層級我都一個一個一個去講在司法法制委員會在其他的委員會我都一而再再而三去講不厭其晚的講一而再而三的提醒 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
523.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
539.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
那我現在講說 不然你看這個協助事業單位辦理員工協助方案我們108年 這個是在疫情前嘛 對不對還有18場 人數是15 1500多109 110 11是疫情它降下來了 沒話講12 一樣10場 人數有多一點點113 一樣有10場 人數再往下降一點點今年是114 請教今年辦了幾場了 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
555.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
581.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
勞動部嗎?對這個就是勞動部協助事業單位辦理的員工協助方案到今年為止已經辦了幾場?今年辦了10場辦了10場了嗎?對確定?對我的資料怎麼是7場?我們今年辦10場好 你辦10場是人數多少?目前是2200左右2200左右也多了沒有很多啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
588.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
613.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
我們目前是規劃應該會有2200大概的人次的企業代表來參選所以部長認定有達標了我想這不是我們從我們的角度不一定叫做達標但是如果做得更多更好我們會盡量來進行那的確現在部裡面也非常關注就是怎麼樣來規劃友善職場的部分那友善職場的配套所以剛剛委員講的我非常同意 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
613.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
629.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
其實EAP當然是一個工具可是最重要的目的還是要改變企業的文化讓企業有辦法可以更大程度去支持勞工我們從這個角度其實也會規劃一些相關其他的配套那能夠讓這個配套起來以後能夠更善用EAP這樣的工具OK |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
630.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
657.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
我再補充一個數據給部長通考台灣中小企業約莫大概是167萬家左右嘛占這個台灣全體的企業98%那提供將近917萬的就業數所以我們常說企業是台灣的中小企業是台灣的骨幹但EAP對中小企業而言是什麼這個專題中有這邊提到了稱EAP對中小企業來講就是奢侈品 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
658.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
679.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
尤其小企業要內要去建立一個EAP幾乎是不可能的任務因素很多甚至有很多就像環境部農業部找一間公司外包結果到底是不是真的EAP也不知道然後要協助中國企業解決這個問題不要讓EAP變成這個奢侈品推廣EAP是勞動部的工作 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
680.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
693.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
這是勞動部的工作而且是要守重的因為勞動部每年如果這樣召開市長教育訓練對中小企業設立EAP來協助員工部長你的看法到底有沒有實質的協助 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
696.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
712.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
的確中小企業因為在相比於比較大規大規模的企業上面其實包括他的人資的制度包括他整體的這個企業內部的治理的狀況有的時候真的比大比較大型的企業會差一點這是事實 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
714.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
733.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
所以我们在推广的时候比方说我们确实看到确实比较有人资制度的企业他对EAP的掌握度会比较高那所以我们的确可能会需要在中小企业的协助上面更花一些心力因为如果他没有很健全的人资制度的时候确实要设置这个的挑战会比较大 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
735.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
760.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
部長要講HR嘛對不對這個報導的專題中也有提到就是說他有明確建議EAP要入法強化企業的責任部長怎麼看而且政府要扮演更積極的角色才能促使企業從出事再處理轉向預防式的管理這樣才能夠真正建立起這個堅固的社會安全網 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
761.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
777.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
就像委員現在秀出來的報導他其實也強調這裡面就是人資跟HR的在使用EAP上的角色因為EAP是一個系統可是要怎麼真的能夠把它使用的好其實要有一些人而且專責性的人去使用這部分其實這就是人資系統 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
778.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
799.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
但是我說中小企業有時候他有人資的比例會比較低這也會讓他們去投入這個事情的意願會比較低其實同樣的狀況所以我們自己是希望說當然我們從大型的開始做可是我們其實現在也有一個規劃我們跟我們的這個福祉師其實我們也希望把這個企業友善職場的做法能夠建立一個資料庫 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
800.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
827.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
然後讓這個資料庫讓大家都知道不同規模的企業在支持勞工上面做了哪些事情大家可以在不同層級上面或不同規模上面去互相的學習那因為可能30人的企業他很難去學習2000人的企業但30人的企業也許他比較有條件去學習40人50人的企業那我們怎麼把這樣子的這個友善職場的資料庫給做出來讓大家可以互相比較互相競爭我們是有這樣的考慮跟規劃 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
828.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
845.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
好 部長這邊有一段話你要看一下這是現狀推動EAP對HR來說是一個高風險的工作許多HR的主管缺乏高層的支持所以他就很難說服他的老闆所以我們就應該扮演更記憶角色所以你對路華你的看法怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
846.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
874.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
我覺得當然是可以大家可以來評估跟考慮的啦只是重點入法以後還是重點是怎麼去落實啦對啊沒有錯法規在台灣的中小企業跟產業的情境裡面其實落實都是反而我們會需要更花心力去去去思考的一個沒有錯啦但是有法治化之後落實會比較實際一點啦是速度也會加快一點好不好一個月內可以吧我們來做一些這個可行性的評估這樣好一個月內好謝謝謝謝主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
875.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
878.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
好 謝謝劉建國召委的發言謝謝部長的答詢 |