| IVOD_ID |
16531 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16531 |
| 日期 |
2025-03-19 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-35-4 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期外交及國防委員會第4次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
4 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
35 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
外交及國防委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期外交及國防委員會第4次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2025-03-19T08:31:31+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-03-19T12:35:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
04:03:29 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/7a505bc1fba11f2d62ae2672450bbbb2d8b52470c073da947a524d1b3d409a1a788a4648cdbe7e185ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-03-19T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期外交及國防委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：邀請國防部部長顧立雄報告業務概況暨「四年期國防總檢討」，並備質詢。） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:31:31 - 12:35:00 |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
1713.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].end |
1722.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].text |
報告委員會出席委員9人已足法定人數好我們現在開會請議事人員宣讀上次會議議事錄 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
1724.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
1751.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
立法院第十一屆第三會期外交及國防委員會第三次全體委員會議議事錄時間中華民國一百一十四年生日十七日星期一上午九十二分至十一時二十六分地點紅樓三零一會議室出席委員許巧欣等十一人列席委員鍾嘉斌等八人列席人員喬武委員會委員長許家青及所屬人員主席沈昭吉委員伯陽報告事項一宣讀上次會議議事錄決定確定二 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
1752.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
1781.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
邀請僑務委員會委員長許家欽報告業務概況並備質詢僑務委員會委員長許家欽報告委員許巧欣等12人質詢均由僑務委員會委員長許家欽即席答覆決定依登記質詢在場委員均已發言完畢報告及詢答結束二委員所提口頭質詢未接答覆或要求提供資資訊請僑務委員會以二周日以書面答覆本會全體委員並複製本會委員另指定期限者從其所定宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
1786.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
1811.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
請問在場委員對於上次會議遺書有如遺漏錯誤或需要更正之處好那我們議事錄確定請議事委員宣讀報告事項報告事項邀請國防部部長顧立雄報告業務概況及四年期國防總檢討並被質詢宣讀完畢好謝謝今天是重要的這個四年期的國防總檢討那我們先介紹在場的委員陳永康委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
1814.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
1829.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
陳俊宇委員我們介紹與會的官員國防部部長 顧立成先生副參謀總長執行官 黃志偉 上將常務次長 楊基榮 總將全民防衛動員署署長 李定忠 總將總督察長 張元勛 總將 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
1845.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
1869.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
參事石文榮中將政務辦公室主任陳道輝中將政治作戰局局長陳玉玲中將軍備局局長林文祥中將主計局局長謝其賢中將軍醫局副局長洪以仁少將 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
1872.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
1897.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
戰略規劃司司長黃文綺中將資源規劃司司長藍靜婷女士法律事務司司長沈世偉中將整合評估司司長苗慧芬女士國防採購事主任趙雅萍中將 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
1900.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
1914.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
人事參謀次長是次長劉沛志中將情報參謀次長是次長謝日昇中將作戰及計劃參謀次長是次長連志威中將後勤參謀次長是次長李鳳翔中將通信電子資訊參謀次長是次長鄧恩蓮中將 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
1931.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
1943.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
訓練參謀次長是次長張俊志中將陸軍司令部參謀長陳建義中將海軍司令部參謀長邱俊榮中將空軍司令部參謀長王德陽中將後備指揮部參謀長薛淵泉少將憲兵指揮部參謀長呂振芳少將 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
1960.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
1984.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
陸軍後勤指揮部參謀長梁永坤少將直通電軍指揮部參謀長陳俊良少將軍事情報局執行長鄧敦仁少將電訊發展事副主任吳永延少將國防大學教育長李承忠少將 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
1989.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
2000.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
國家中山科學研究院副院長羅一忠先生我們今天邀請國防部部長顧立雄報告業務概況以及四年期的國防總檢討並備質詢請國防部顧部長上台報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
2014.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
2032.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
主席、各位委員先進,今天應邀致大院委員會實施業務報告,首先對各位委員就各項國防施政的支持與指教表達誠摯感謝。本次報告將說明近期安全情勢以及本部各項業務推動情況,包括區域情勢掌握等14項,主項分數如何。 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
2034.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
2058.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
一、區域情勢掌握,歐洲戰爭迄今已逾三年,川普政府上任後積極協商停戰方案談判過程引發歐洲盟友的憂慮,本部將持續關注後續情勢發展在中東戰事方面,第一階段停火協議生效,藍、四火能達成長期停戰,持續受到關注 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
2061.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2084.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
中共持續以各種複合式威脅手段施壓台灣以針對周邊國家進行灰色地帶侵擾及軍事挑釁活動今年以來即發生中共軍艦穿越非國領海等挑釁行徑導致印太地區情勢持續升溫美中在經濟、科技及軍事等層面嚴重對立美方官員表示 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
2085.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2114.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
美國的優先要務是對抗中國以重申美國反對透過武力威脅等方式強行改變台海現狀顯示印太地區能系美國戰略重心國軍面臨嚴峻的安全環境持續關注區域情勢變化透過增加國防預算提升軍事現代化精進戰備準備強化全社會防衛韌性以有盟夥伴深化合作等具體作為以建立有效嚇阻 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2114.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2129.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
能力確保國家安全與區域和平二、監控敵情威脅中共對我軍事威脅未曾減緩常態保持對台軍事壓迫呼籲大量星戰影片製造輿論聲量達成其任職作戰目的 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2130.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2152.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
共軍持續以每月三至四次頻率執行海空軍機艦所謂聯合戰備軍型及各種軍事挑釁作為令去年中共東部戰區執行聯合力艦2024A及聯合力艦2024B軍演演練巨子外軍等科目以加大對我軍事威懾去年12月 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2153.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2168.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
以臺灣周邊海域及浙東、西南空域執行海空聯訓及遠海長航訓練演練第一島鏈內目標模擬攻擊並運用各型無人機從事長時間滯空監偵對外投射軍力展現威權擴張之野心 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2174.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2198.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
中共偵派海警船不定期進入淨縣市水域騷擾並藉經驗時機編組海警船於台灣周邊海域執法巡邏企圖達成其台海內海化目的更在針對性經驗期間結合任職作戰意圖煽動民眾恐慌本部持續強化聯合勤研針加強空中及海上監控能力 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2199.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2225.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
並透過跨部位及跨國管道交流情誌掌握共軍動態由我們國家對於台海安全之意關注美國、加拿大、英國、法國、德國、河南、澳洲和紐西蘭等國近年均派遣軍艦通過台灣海峽宣示航行自由反制中共法律戰以具體行動支持台灣海峽屬於國際水域有利台海和平穩定和印太區域情勢安全 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2225.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2248.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
三 強化戰備整備國軍持續掌握各軍各列演訓活動是敵威脅程度成立應變中心及時派遣兵力應對攻擊軍艦之侵擾共軍持續增加台海周邊灰色地帶行動國軍依提請彈性調整應對兵力一 共軍可能行動設計想定狀況納入各部隊戰備訓練提升國軍應處能力 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2255.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2268.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
為強化三軍級與海巡聯合應變能力以建立海軍與海巡合作機制有效提升應儲中低強度灰色地帶侵擾能力 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2269.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2293.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
去年12月共軍執行海空聯訓及沿海長航訓練共國軍暨同步實施立即備戰操演適應中共由訓轉演、由演轉戰之威脅並針對中共運用無人機、侵擾、採取識別監控等程序應處中共近期大量運用海警船和海上民兵實施灰色地帶侵擾 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2295.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2304.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
國軍以海巡署,重新簽署《海上任務綜合資源協定書》,建立快速通報及海底電纜防範機制四、檢討組織編裝為強化部隊戰力,本部課陣全面檢討主戰手臂與後衛部隊的組織架構編制 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2317.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2322.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
規劃和裝備配護,主戰部隊配合M1A2戰車等新式武器裝備陸續貨裝,同步檢討太祖老舊之裝備,並且調整部隊編組能力,以具備遠距精準打擊及快速機動應援等能力。 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2336.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2343.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
守備及後備部隊檢討配護無人機自走火砲及人員運輸車輛強化部隊機動性與火力國軍從編裝到訓練都以實戰化高戰備為目標尋求符合整體聯合作戰需求 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2353.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2375.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
以及各駐岸區因地制宜之相關規劃五 提升作戰韌性為縮短平站轉換艦系強化後勤支援作戰能力本部針對補給品囤儲、精品運輸、裝備保修、網路通訊及軍政醫學等面向皆有盡進措施因應新式武器陸續 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2376.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2389.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
因為新式武器裝備陸續成軍,逐年編列預算採購維持主戰裝備暫時全妥善之零組件提升裝備為保效能及妥善 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2390.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2411.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
為強化國軍的指通韌性,國軍指管系統建置軍材護士備援及機動化配置,確保暫時指管勤船暢通不中斷,並持續建構網路安全防禦縱深。被與承受干擾與迫害時,國軍指管等核心系統仍可維持運作。 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2413.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2439.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
衛情部隊與國軍醫院前進外科小組協同作業並與衛福部、消防署、縣市政府、衛生主管機關建立橫向協調機制以利各單位了解暫時國家醫療體系運作機制為維持暫時國軍血液供給制任性規劃於今年底前成立國軍首座捐血機構令參照有盟國家軍事血液計畫將於115年成立三軍血液計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2443.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2459.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
確保國軍協議供應穩定機制另外強化國軍醫院對於化身放核等特殊災害事件應處能力三星總醫院、國軍、台中醫、台中及桃園總醫院均以取得認證資格並繼續管制認證作業 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2463.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2467.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
6.年度演訓規劃,國軍各項操演並實戰化訓練為原則,採實兵、實地、實時、實裝、防事訓、私訓。114年度藉各項重大演訓,驗證部隊執行聯合作戰作為。 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2480.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2503.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
聯合作戰計畫作為為強化部隊備戰部署能力於3月17日到21日執行立即備戰操演使各級部隊首輪防衛作戰備戰部署階段整備要項並因應中共針對性軍演執行非計畫性立即備戰操演第一屆海軍將執行聯合階級作戰計畫演練並結合空軍戰術總驗收實施 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2508.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2532.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
後續依其程執行聯合資訊及電子作戰操演漢光四十一號電腦輔助指揮所及士兵演習等聯合演訓及建立快速反應能力一百一十三年度一年期UV共接訓二十八題訓練區分入伍駐地及基地等三階段 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2534.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2539.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
經檢討113年訓練成效,自114年起以8週入伍訓練期課程增加手槍、機槍、實彈射擊等訓項,並以駐地及居地訓練階段持續加強國土守備任務等科目以提升義務兵役 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2554.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2560.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
義務役單兵戰鬥職能漢光41號演習漢光41號演習以中共灰色地帶侵擾及2027年工軍犯台可能行動為想定發展基礎區分高階幹部圖上兵推、電腦輔助指揮所演習、士兵演練等三階段實施 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2577.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2581.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
為建立高階幹部圖上兵推研討基礎自去年11月起陸續辦理軍事資訊作戰全社會防衛任性與後勤議題兵推並於2月17日到2月 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2595.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2598.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
到21號實施高階幹部附上兵隊檢視114年聯合作戰計畫修訂成果,藉互動研討建立作戰共識4月份的電腦輔助指揮所演習規劃於5號到18號進行為期14天之對抗潮推演 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2616.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2624.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
7月份呢,石兵演練規劃於9號到18號採石兵實地實施及部分對抗草原方式,實施10天演練 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2627.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2650.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
把無人機籌貨與運用國軍透過偽製對外軍購及國內採購等多元管道籌貨各型無人機並藉由自主研發與生產後指國內產業供應鏈同時爭取有盟國家技術合作共同打造無人機的飛虹供應鏈國軍持續建制擴編無人機專責部隊其中陸軍無人機訓練中心已於114年1月正式編程 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2657.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2667.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
負責地面部隊各型無人機基礎操作等訓練後續規劃由基礎至進階循序訓練提升操作手及師之能量 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2668.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2696.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
國軍因應無人機貨裝及反制需求策判無人機戰力整合運用及無人機運用管理與反制指導並鑽砌各類教範及手冊建立整體運用概念發揮無人機作戰效益九 全社會防衛韌性全社會防衛韌性為總統重大政策因應各種威脅和天災情境建構政府和社會核心功能持續運作之韌性機制 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2697.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2720.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
本部呈行政院之命,總理行政院動員匯報秘書工作113年即召開12次跨部委協調會,是重點以檢視動員法規、嚴定各級動員計畫等事項遵循這個全社會防衛韌性委員會才事將萬安、民安重新整合為2025城鎮韌性演習 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2722.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2741.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
其中全社會防衛動員演習採無劇本小規模方式進行各項演練防空演習擴大驗證民眾實際進入防空疏散避難設施及轉移至救濟站等演練114年規劃14天教招擴訓約2萬餘員同步調整通訊訓練等科目強化訓練內容年度人力動員同心演習 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2752.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2777.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
逐年調整後備軍人參演規模,同縣、警、校及民防團隊遂行全社會防衛動員演練志強四十一號演習結合漢光想定策劃物力動員演練科目,遂行軍需測機物資動員等演練以統合全民總力,支援軍事作戰 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2779.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2801.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
使武器籌貨現況與前瞻規劃國軍建軍規劃之重點與建構不對稱作戰強化防衛韌性提升後備戰力及厚紫灰色地帶應存能量等四大面向一百一十四年度國軍投資重大建設建案具有仁溪市市政會等各式武器裝備 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2802.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2829.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
後續依規劃期程接裝部署另外為滿足快速提升後備戰力之需求除籌貨國內自支機槍等裝備令透過美方對我提供軍事融資FMF及總統提供權PDA等無償軍事援助加速我後備部隊兵力整建進程本部國防創新小組成立後優先關注無人系統等六大領域 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2830.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2855.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
吸引進民間成熟產品,快速提升戰力114年2月24日公告智慧化倉儲管理系統等三案公開徵集並藉由產業化聯作會議與國科會、經濟部及數學部合作鼓勵民間投入國防科技研發11.國防自主國防自主為我國武器籌貨重要原則 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2856.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2875.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
武器系統自主研發,使國軍獲得所需武器裝備,同時能提升我國國安工業實力。本部自114年推動《國安產業發展條例》,迄今均依眷軍備戰需求,定期滾動檢討列管軍品清單功耗品項。 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2877.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
2900.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
本部將持續透過多元管道宣導等做法落實推動產發條例以另配合經濟部協助合格廠商取得國外原廠認證等方式建構國防產業供應鏈為電技國防科技自主研發能量結合國科會推動國防先進科技研究計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
2903.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
2922.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
114年度合定執行計127案,蓄意規劃實施其中查核,其莫評鑑中科院依行不對稱作戰思維,佈局全班的無人機載具創研發展空中部分將兼徵無人機專利試商,以擴大產業規模和韌性 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
2926.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
2951.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
攻擊型無人機區分短距、均準、獵殺等四種功能結合國內外技術共同研發生產水面部分自殺無人艇為現階段標的並同前述攻擊無人機,預化本年度內辦理公開展示國機國造迄今累計交機十四三架國艦國造持續推動高效能艦艇等四型艦籌艦 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
2955.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
2968.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
潛艦客執行測試管制於114年11月交建海攻戰力特別預算籌建雄三飛彈等九型飛彈量產及截角作業七星軍一計畫執行進度正常 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
2972.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
2993.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
十二,國際軍事交流合作,國軍結合國家安全及外交政策,訂定政策對話等十項軍事交流目標,深化與美國及其他有盟國家合作。為推展與有盟國家軍事交流與安全合作,國軍積極培育駐外人員,並透過敦睦演航訓練 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
2995.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
3023.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
等具體交流與有某國家強化實質夥伴關係美國會跨黨派支持持續提升台灣自我防衛能力以近期通過的《2025財政年度國防授權法》納入台灣安全合作倉儀提供台灣國防物資及人員訓練等安全援助並將台美軍事創傷醫護計畫等有我條文以建議納入法案 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
3025.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
3049.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
十三,充實志願能力兵員能力為部隊戰力發揮之關鍵總統上任後,即指示本部研議國軍待遇提升方案國軍新式武器裝備陸續接裝成軍,極需高專人才長留久用為鼓勵官兵致戰鬥部隊服役本部研擬志願役加級等五項加級調整方案,均已呈報行政院審議中 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
3052.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
3076.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
針對自願意申請提前退伍之官兵,有條件開放離營滿一年後可申請再錄影,其年齡、體格、離營前考積等申請標準為之不變。基於憲法保障平等權之意旨,以及參考現行國家招募做法檢討不必要之限制,後續統計年度資料評估執行成效。 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
3079.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3098.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
14.國安法制自修,為遏止現役軍人對軍人為宣示效忠之行為,以擬拒《陸海工事刑法》第24條修正草案修正草案除徵定處罰刑責之外,並加重不盡其應盡之責而降低罪之法定刑及徵定其預備犯及陰謀犯 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3100.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3121.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
本修正草案將依法製作為程序,呈送行政院審查,並配合志願役軍士官退伍後納兵後備役男女一致之政策以完成陸海工軍軍官士官服役條例第55條及志願士兵服役條例部分條文修正草案現行行政院審查中 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3122.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3148.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
在法規命令訂定部分的軍事營區安全維護條例現拟據有關進入軍事營區許可申請等七種法規命令已完成草案預告等法制作業程序令入海公經懲罰法及軍人權益事件處理法刻拟據有關懲罰法實行細則等十五種法規命令在總統已公開宣布 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3149.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3178.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
平時需重新建構軍事審判制度,本部將依循政策指導修正軍事審判法並研議採行全面強制辯護制度,匯除階級管轄等以及制定軍法官人事條例、軍事法院組織法、軍事檢察署組織法等相關法規完備各項配套措施確保符合公平審判原則及正當法律程序則憲法要求,被周延兼顧人權保障與軍隊距離 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3180.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3201.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
面對瞬息萬變的國際局勢以及不斷升高的敵情威脅本部務實推動各項重大政策並持恆戰訓整備工作以確保國家安全懇請各位委員先進的持續支持與指導謝謝大家今天也安排向大院實施四年級國防總檢討專報持續就請整合評估師苗師長進行報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3215.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3242.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
主席 各位委員 大家好接續提報四年期國防總檢討專案報告前言 依國防法第31條規定於每任總統就職後十個月內國防部應向立法院提出四年期國防總檢討本部未完成辭役法定任務遵照賴總統國防理念與政策指導破壞重要國防施政方向及具體政策 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3243.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3262.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
自去年起,即由各联餐组成专案小组展开编撰作业,并邀请国防军事、战略研究、国际关系及国防产业等领域之专家学者担任咨询委员广纳专业建言共同参与纲目研讨、内容传理及审定工作 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3262.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3276.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
其透過全面性的戰略檢討及整體佈局聚焦國防軍事優先要務以建構具前瞻創新快速應變之堅韌國防力量達成嚇阻戰爭確保區域和平之目標 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3278.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3285.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
編撰架構本次四年期國防總檢討主軸為建構敏捷應變戰力與全社會防衛韌性確保國家安全區分為六章論述說明整體國際戰略環境變動與我國面臨的國防安全挑戰 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3296.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3324.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
凸显我国在印太地缘战略之关键地位并在国防战略与军事战略指导下阐述国军积极建军备战推动国防改革落实国防自主与多元化武器筹获强化全民防卫韧性并链接有盟安全合作打造守护台湾捍卫和平的现代化部队纲目共计六章二十三节架构如下表请参阅 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3325.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3341.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
內容概要 報告如後第一章 國際變局中的台海安全區分大國競爭與區域衝突台海安全局勢中共灰色地帶行動威脅台海作戰形態變化事節 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3344.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3360.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
當前國際戰略環境受到美中大國競爭、俄烏及中東等區域衝突以及中、俄、北韓、伊朗四國緊密軍事合作等交互影響導致國際秩序深受挑戰全球安全情勢呈現錯綜複雜的格局 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3363.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3366.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
中共近年不斷擴張軍力,頻密對我軍事侵擾與操作揮帶行動威脅,意圖測試與損耗國軍戰備整備資源,藉由軍事施壓及認知作戰,動搖民心與士氣,進而改變台海和平現狀。 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3381.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3406.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
第二章国防安全之战略指导区分国防战略与军事战略两节策定精进国防力量强认整体防卫革新国防事务强化组织效能推动国防自主创造双赢效益策应灾防自变守护人民福祉及紧密战略合作共为区域和平五项国防战略目标 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3408.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3430.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
依據防衛固守重成嚇阻軍事戰略,善用我地理防禦優勢及各式武器裝備,發展多域拒止、韌性防衛、軍事作戰整備方向,依機動、敏捷、致命、成本效益、引力等原則,組建陸、海、空網路等多重領域戰力,形成嚇阻侵略的防衛力量。 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3432.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3459.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
暫時運用平戰轉換戰力保存重層防禦及軍民整合等手段延遲敵人行動及逐次削弱敵軍破敵任務失敗第三章打造克敵制勝的軍隊區分建構不對稱與韌性戰力落實實戰化訓練提升後備部隊戰力精進後勤支援效能精神戰力與士氣及應對中共侵擾六節 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3461.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3478.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
戰力整建秉持建構不對稱戰力,強化作戰韌性,提升後備戰力及後值灰色地帶應儲能量四項原則,並強化去中心化運作、複式備援及機動分散等戰力部署作為,提升整體作戰韌性。 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3479.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3484.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
建構擬真戰場環境執行聯合演訓將新式武器納入訓練驗測以強化實戰化訓練持續精進教召訓練充實動員體系資源及更新後備部隊裝備建立後備與常備部隊協同作戰能力 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3498.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3523.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
藉物資分散預囤整合三軍維修能量及後勤資訊系統等作為提升後勤支援效能令透過教育訓練培養愛國情操增強國軍心理韌性建立保家衛國的榮譽感及堅定使命運用科技及多元媒體反制敵任之戰強調國軍絕不屈服任何散播投降的資訊皆為錯假訊息 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3526.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3541.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
第四章推動國防改革優先要務區分預算穩定成長與妥適配置引進創新技術應用國防自主與多元化武獲專業人才培育與留用及現代化部隊管理五節 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3543.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3570.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
总体国防预算维持逐步成长并依法并依法编列特别预算争取国防预算达到国内生产毛儿GDP3 3%以上目标为加速国防创新聚焦人工智慧无人系统等领域引进业界发展成熟的技术以缩短研发其成快速转化及导入军事应用积极打造更具竞争力的国防力量 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3571.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3597.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
令耿旭推動國防自主提高武器自製能力同時透過多元化的武器籌貨管道在多變的國際局勢中保持靈活彈性與供應穩定持續完善招募、考核、訓練及官兵留營等作為為國軍培育領導、作戰及各領域的專業人才令強化文官國防事務之能培育專業久任之能力 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3599.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3619.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
部隊管理秉持以人為本推動行政事務檢證改善官兵營舍助用品質及提高福利照顧等作為第五章全民防衛動員支援持續作戰區分精進動員機制與民防能量跨部會協力合作及戰災防護與救助三節 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3621.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3633.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
持續與各部會及地方政府執行全民防衛資源整合與演練推展民防教育應變訓練以利於平戰快速轉換增進長後一體後備戰力建置戰傷救護訓練機制增加戰備藥品學品庫儲儲備戰傷救護量能應處戰災防護防救任務 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3647.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3670.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
運用跨部會協力共同防護基礎設施安全借城鎮任性演習更新動員人才庫等持續性工作強化資源調度與應變機制第六章 鏈結區域強化集體嚇阻區分深化台美軍事交流合作拓展友盟安全夥伴關係及接軌供應鏈安全體系三節 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3672.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3686.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
透過對美政策對話、軍售、科研、國防產業合作等方式深化雙邊合作、加強作戰互通性並與其他友盟在情報、科研、資安防護、反制揮帶與認知戰威脅等範疇拓展交流領域、建構合作機制 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3693.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3718.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
协助我国防产业获得国外原厂授权及继转与国际友盟合作打造非红供应链提升我国防工业基础能力与产能之优化重点与特色综合四年期国防总检讨章节内容向国内外传达我国防理念以及应对挑战的革新作为包括彰显台湾是台海和平的稳定力量 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3719.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3732.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
強調台海和平穩定攸關印太及全球發展彰顯台灣制衡威權擴張的關鍵角色將堅守民主自由價值展現自我防衛決心及能力前瞻規劃及建構堅實國防確保國家安全 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3739.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3761.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
二 接觸最新防衛作戰概念及整備方向依敵情威脅及我海島防衛地利特性以多域拒止任性防衛為軍事作戰整備方向並採取去中心化運作分散部署 汛機管理 縱深防禦及從城削弱等策略具以修訂作戰計畫規劃武器裝備籌建及落實實戰化訓練要求科技賦能提升防衛戰力 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3768.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3787.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
評估及引進民間創新成熟科技包括無人系統反制無人系統人工智慧應用通訊指管韌性網路安全及革新既有作業機制軟硬體等領域應用於軍事作戰與國防事務管理以強化防衛戰力及提升施政效能 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3789.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3817.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
居民整合打造韌性國防協同各部會及地方政府持續透過兵推與演習驗證全民防衛動員與準備戰備與民生物資之儲存調度與資源管理關鍵基礎設施防護等作為共同應對緊急危難與戰災危險國際供應鏈合作強化集體嚇阻推動與友盟建構具作戰互通性與產業互補性的供需整合系統 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3819.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3831.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
降低對單一供應鏈來源的依賴,增加我國軍備任性,並透過國際社會的集體力量,提高中共犯台遭受國際制裁的成本與風險,達到嚇阻戰爭的目標。 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3836.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3853.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
國防安全是國家生存發展的基石,國軍將不畏艱難,不辱使命,陸力建軍備戰。面對戰略環境變動,國軍必須靈活應變,充分掌握台海情勢變化,以堅實的國防力量,善盡捍衛國家主權與領土完整的職責。 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3855.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3864.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
堅定以備戰達到止戰的態度及行動確保國家永續發展及維護區域和平穩定藉由發揮及彰顯台灣地緣戰略的價值贏得國際社會的認同與支持報告完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3875.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
3893.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
我們現在開始詢答今天本會委員6加2分鐘非本會委員5分鐘那我們10點半發言登記截止那如果有臨時提案請於10點半前提出大概11點左右處理那我們現在請羅美玲委員上台質詢謝謝主席 有請顧部長有請顧部長 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
3913.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
3936.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
部長早安部長 今年來中國對國軍進行滲透的情形是非常的嚴重所以日前賴清德總統就宣布要恢復軍事審判制度也就是說現在的軍人如果觸犯了陸海空軍刑法的話刑法的軍事犯罪就會由軍事法庭來做審理當然這個議題這幾天引起了很多的討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
3938.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
3967.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
其實在這個當年2013年的時候也就是因為洪仲丘案引發了這個對這個軍中人權還有階級管理失當跟軍事審判調查權的這個重新的這個檢視那歷經了兩次的這個群眾運動促進促成了這個立法院的修法也就是在陳平時期呢軍人犯罪呢會回歸到一般的司法機關來做這個審理那部長您是當年洪仲丘案的這個律師我想外界對您的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
3968.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
3995.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
呃態度呢是非常的這個關心那我有看到日前你在受到這個媒體訪問的時候有提到就是說與其說是恢復這個軍審呢倒不如說是要來重新呃訂定一個全新的這個軍審的這個呃這個制度喔也就是說這個軍法官呢呃不會受到這個外部包含這個國防部的這個干涉要維護這一個呃審查的這個獨立性所以呃本席很好奇喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
3996.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
4024.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
那未來到底我們的軍事法庭也好或是軍事檢察署也好會是獨立於國防部之外嗎還是說未來的這個軍事法院或是軍事檢察署他會納入一般的司法體系之下這部分有想法跟規劃嗎請問部長現在的軍事法院是一個在國防部底下的一個准 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
4025.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
4052.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
他沒有一個法定的法的效力所以大法官之前對於軍事審判的這個軍法官是不是具有法官的獨立性這一點有所質疑所以在這一點上面我們認為呢要確保軍法官的獨立性是很重要的所以我才說要設要將他提高到法的位階成為軍事法院組織法 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
4054.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
4081.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
那我現在進一步想說還有一個審檢分立的問題也就是說我們一般強調是說檢察官是負責偵查追溯那審判是負責這個個案審理那這兩個之間呢也要分立不屬於這個同一個體系所以是不是也要研議建構一個軍事檢察署的組織法 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
4082.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
4097.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
那這樣子的一個兩個組織法把它提高到法的位階來之後呢這個先確保這個組織面的一個獨立性那另外人事的獨立性的部分呢可能要訂定一個軍法官人事條例也就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
4099.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
4122.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
軍馬關的這個甄選從甄選一直到養成然後後來到這個他對他的身份保障然後乃至於到這個相關的評鑑跟淘汰都要引進外部的機制也就是說他不會是由這個國防部的內部的人士來管理而是透過一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
4123.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
4138.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
引進外部單位多元的一個審議委員會來公平的一個確保他的這個獨立性的一個情況之下來做相關的這些包括對他的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
4141.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4156.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
養成也好包括對他的這個身份保障也好包括對他的這個相關的評鑑淘汰也好都不受這個國安部本身的一個控制那這樣才能夠確保他的獨立性這是現在的想法 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4157 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4177.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
所以部長您的意思簡單來講換言之就是說未來我們的軍事法院、軍事檢察署是完全獨立在國防部之外不像過去是像過去我們的軍事法院其實是隸屬於國防部所以是完全要獨立以前是在國防部的鞭子底下可是我們軍事審判法其實主管單位還是國防部不是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4182.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4203.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
沒有 審判法它是一種程序法它不屬於司法院啊軍事審判法它是一種操作性的概念所以軍事審判法的重點是在於它軍事審判法裡面的內容它必須要維持它裡面內容的程序的正當性所以它是一個操作性的法律那由人 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4204.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4222.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
人來操作這個程序的這個法律的時候那個程序面的部分就要確保他的這個正當性那這樣的一個正當性的一個操作也就是說軍事審判其實他是一種特殊型態的一種審判的一個體制但是他還是要維護 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4223.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4243.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
維持住憲法所要求的政黨法律程序的要求所以我們會把它修改到就是說跟至少要跟憲刑的這個刑訴法相關的一些政黨法律程序要求要有一致這樣子那譬如說有舉幾個例子第一個譬如說 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4244.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4263.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
階級審判,過去的軍事審判法是說這個衛官以下是由地方軍事法院然後校官以上是由高等軍事法院那事實上這個也被大法官認為這個是有違這個階級管轄是有違憲的一個部分那這個部分我們會加以修改 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4263.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4292.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
所以我們還是會尋向一般法院像我們譬如說三級三審的方式來進行未來也是會這樣子因為我有看到說未來會用這個法律審或是這個市市審來做這個輔助市市審跟上市審的救濟的部分應該是這樣就是說按照現在即使有一些相關的規定譬如說違反效忠職者國家罪這個部分呢就等同於這個叛亂罪等等的那這些罪在一般的司法機關裡面也是隸屬於高等 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4293.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4322.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
軍事法院為第一審然後之後上訴審那最終審可能是到這個司法院的最高法院那所以他可能是一個審計那一般的其他案件可能是在地方軍事法院那地方軍事法院審完之後應該是要如何這個我們還要跟社會各界做一個溝通來確認到底是幾個市市審來進行那就這個部分呢還有要考量是不是要這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4323.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4324.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
有一些這個審判的 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4325.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4355.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
一個設計上面要這個能源的組成要如何這個我們也都要已經在做相關的規劃那我們要跟司法院跟法務部還要再做溝通是 看起來這個要恢復這個軍事懲罰好像還沒有那麼快因為我看到說我們還要制定軍法官的人事條例還有這個軍事法院的組織法我們還要訂定軍事警察署的組織法等等還要跟社會對話還要跟司法院這邊來做溝通那是不是說短期內這個還有一段時間還有一段路要走 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4356.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4381.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
是跟委員報告我們就是說沒有辦法定出一個時間的原因就在於是說因為這些都要跟這個我們草案現在基本上有一個初稿那出來之後我們要跟專家學者來做諮商諮商以後我們要跟社會各界做溝通然後還要送到大院來進行審議所以那這個中間還要涉及到相關的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4383.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4411.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
軍法官的這些不管是檢察官或者是這個從事審判的法官他們的這個養成的這個部分那這個部分我們都還需要跟司法院也要法務部做溝通所以的確是還需要一些時間因為我們畢竟是11年了都沒有這個能量已經逐漸萎縮所以我們現在要恢復的話要重新啟動其實還是一個大工程重新啟動是一個坦白講是一個大工程 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4413.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4439.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
好 那還有一個 給我一點時間 主席再一分鐘因為我有看到司法院他有統計說近三年來每一年大概有三百多件起訴的軍事案件我想請教一下這三百多件的這些起訴的新的案件軍事案件到底它的類型是屬於哪些 它的樣態是什麼樣子這個不如我們會即將請司法機關提供完案件的類型跟數量所以這部分的話 部長您這也不是很清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4439.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4441.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
因為我們本來想了解涉密還是供迭案還是怎麼樣因為我覺得這個數字一年300多件其實還蠻多的 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4451.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4479.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
因為我們現在要確定的是屬於這個入行法第二篇的軍人犯植物上之罪那所以比較著重在這一塊的部分那一般的刑事案件還是歸司法機關來處理所以要恢復軍人犯植物上之罪這個部分到底是有多少類型是有多少我們會再跟司法院來做一個OK我就想這部分如果說您這邊有拿到資料或是我們辦公室可能會跟司法院要 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4480.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4492.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
掉這個資料因為我覺得對這個案件一年三百多件的這個洗漱的軍事案件是讓本席真的是比較好奇到底是那些案件OK 好 以上謝謝好 謝謝委員好 謝謝羅委員好 現在請馬文君委員上台質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4508.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4509.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
謝主席 麻煩請部長請部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4521.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4539.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
今天其實我覺得我們第一時間有點短在過去不管是業務報告或是年期國防總檢討這兩個非常大的議題其實從來沒有排在同一天過那其實這樣能夠探討的時間比較少不過我們也希望說未來 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4540.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4563.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
召委可能還可以再排一些相關的時間可以讓大家可以充分的討論因為畢竟他對我們整體的國防的政策還有他未來的走向或者我們所有的預算的編列其實他都非常重要所以我們還是希望可以慎重那接下來我們看到最近的那個新聞裡面有看到這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4569.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4577.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
中共方面對於資通電軍網路站連隊對陸作業我們不管這個新聞是真是假因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4580.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4599.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
這個部分我們在今天的公開質詢就不討論他的內容不過我們要看一下他更深層的一個部分就是說他對岸公佈這些人的照片姓名性別身份證等個資而且還指出其中的職位他甚至是負責人還有戰隊隊長 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4601.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4607.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
這個部分如果我們要對我們單位的弟兄去著想的時候因為現在網路作戰它已經是一個常態或者甚至是非常重要的一環那他們在軍中不可能是終身職他不像其他一般的工作那如果他不適合或者說他離職以後這個部分他是被對岸終身追責所以這個部分可不可以考量他們可以向國安局或情報局的 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4631.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4644.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
負責對陸人員一樣他用就是用別名去識別因為國防部對於這些相關人的作業人員應該提高他的國安等級的相關防護或者給予適當的鼓勵這個部分部長怎麼看 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4648.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4662.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
這一點我同意這一點因為我想自動電軍也是納入我們這個國家勤工法的相關的條文的使用所以我覺得不管他執行任務的安全要以保障那退離職會 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4665.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4676.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
之後呢我應該也要提供這個有關一些相關的一些協助他們可能不是離職而已啊就是我們我們現在講的是包括我們的國安局國安單位的或者像一些情報人員其實他如果在從事這樣的工作的時候他不是用不是全部用真名應該要怎麼樣去保障他們的身份因為他一旦離職以後離職我們沒有辦法保護因為其實他被 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4692.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4707.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
終身追責這個部分其實他只要不在我們的國內他可能會受到很大的威脅這個部分是不是也應該要重新去考量他們需要受到的防護或者應該要什麼樣的獎勵因為你畢竟要留人才其實也不容易這個部分請部長在針對這個部分可以再去做一些相關的研究好不好是那個那目前 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4721.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4747.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
日前賴總統宣布剛剛其實委員也有委員提到就是全面檢討修正軍事審判法要恢復軍法的部分處理現役軍人涉犯叛亂利敵泄密廢止職務抗命等等這些跟軍事相關犯罪之刑事案件那未來現役軍人觸犯陸海空軍刑法之軍事犯罪案要交由軍事法院審判 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4749.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4776.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
因為剛剛部長也做了一些說明我想請教的是因為本席或者一些相關的在國防部過去有很多包括部長包括一些相關的人員就是在管理階層其實他們也發現到軍紀一直沒有辦法很有效的去做一個管理其實可能 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4777.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4787.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
在這個部分是不是應該要做什麼樣的一個修正可是當時我們看到其實包括賴總統包括顧部長您其實都說要審慎的評估甚至你還說到其實是不同意軍法復辟 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4798.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4801.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
可是剛剛提到的 您提到的說怎麼樣去做它的修整它甚至不隸屬在國防部底下我想請教一下目前全世界有哪一個國家是用這樣的制度 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4812.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4828.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
有嗎?全世界目前有哪一個國家是像剛剛部長您提到的是用另外一個審判的方式或者吝嗇一個軍事法庭之類的這樣的一個方式來做全世界目前有哪一個國家是這麼做? |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4830.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4845.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
維持這個一般的司法跟軍事審判的國家在民主國家有美國英國加拿大以色列韓國跟新加坡等等都有他們都是怎麼做他們是用剛剛部長連說的方式是這樣子嗎這樣的制度嗎我想 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4849.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4877.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
每一個國家的他的這個不是部長我現在只是說因為過去我們有軍法可是在洪仲秋案的時候很多整個社會的氛圍讓他把這個軍法去把它暫時當然還有可是平時已經是在一般法院剛剛部長提到的方式那樣子的制度我想請教目前全世界有哪一個國家是採取這樣子的一個制度方式目前 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4879.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
4885.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
我想不是軍保我說您剛剛提到的這樣子的方式目前有哪一個國家這麼做 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
4886.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
4909.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
我想因為每個國家我們大致上法制上有分成英美法系跟大陸法系部長我沒有要討論這個部分這一塊在法律的部分上面大家很清楚我現在說的是您剛剛提到的制度現在目前在全世界的民主國家有哪一個國家是採取這樣的模式有嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
4911.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
4926.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
我想我們會去看看這個相關的這些大陸法系的國家他們所適用的如何維護這個軍法官他在審判當中的一個身份保障這個部分我們會來研究我們如果是自己又創立一個因為過去大家就是覺得尤其他是在國防部底下因為你是對現役軍人嘛我們來看一個影片好不好部長這個可能昨天看到的 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
4940.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
4962.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
軍事法庭看到還蠻恐怖的 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
4963.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
4976.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
部長您沒有不是現役軍人不可能會按照我們現在的所以他為什麼會有這種理解因為軍事法庭他審理的就是現役軍人現在對大家都是這麼說可是 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
4978.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
4994.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
他的身份很特別他是民進黨很重要的一個政治評論員他出來講這樣的話甚至說這個如果牽涉到遣件或者牽涉到什麼共諜案在這裡我想要請教部長一個問題當時黃曙光前召集人黃曙光前總長他講到一個跟中共相關的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
5004.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
5027.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
問題他說有人把資料給了中共大使館這個部分我不知道我們有沒有去追究這個部分因為中共大使館可見不是在中國大陸本土而是在其他的國家那到底是誰交給中共大使館或者這只是假的如果是假的就沒有馬文君牽涉到共諜的問題如果是真的那到底是誰 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
5032.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
5042.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
如果我們可以查看看那時候我有沒有出國有沒有去這些相關的國家這是第一點如果像到中共大使館那個通常都會有監視器的你的資訊是怎麼樣獲得的這個部分請徹查清楚因為這牽涉到我們的 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
5052.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
5062.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
資料是不是有外洩如果你第一艘的潛艦資料都外洩你後面第二艘跟第八艘要怎麼繼續做或者你要從頭來過這個都沒有交代清楚可是我們預算已經編了第二個他這個政治評論員他怎麼知道這個案子都沒有動為什麼他會知道如果像這樣子拿國家的一個很重要的機密案 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
5078.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
5084.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
他不知道真假甚至不懂潛艦他都可以大剌剌的從過去到現在至少已經講了快兩年他都不用負擔責任嗎你給社會大眾是什麼樣的一個認知這會不會影響我們所有整體的國防安全這個也請國防部再去了解一下最後不好意思跟委員跟召委接一點點時間我想請教部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
5103.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
5109.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
第一艘潛艦原型艦它幾乎編列500億的預算有沒有被刪過一毛錢潛艦的預算當時在委員會裡面並沒有被刪都沒有被刪嗎?幾乎原型艦都沒有被刪過一毛錢當時明知道因為過去在民進黨完全執政的情況之下我們也知道只要提出這樣刪減案 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
5135.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
5135.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
好 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
5149.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
5156.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
抱歉部長我想在這裡只要做出澄清就是我們的原型艦從頭到尾沒有被刪過一毛錢對不對是總共493億如果連設計費30億還包括海軍的顧問費其實已經高達500多億那個連一毛錢都沒有被刪當時在 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
5170.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
5174.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
民進黨完全執政的情況之下為什麼我們提刪減數包括我們在場的委員比較資深的就是我跟王定宇委員其實民進黨也有提刪減案高達三十幾億所以我們只是要監督預算當時我們也知道我們刪不了可是為什麼還是提刪動主要是如果沒有提案問題就沒有人會注意所以在這裡我們希望在立法院今天的委員會可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
5199.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
5217.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
重新好好的澄清原型艦連一毛錢都沒有被刪過在過程當中大家都希望他可以做到好而且是可以維護我們國家安全是一個有效的一個防衛的武器攻擊武器所以在這裡謝謝部長然後我們今年編的預算其實也是凍結對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
5224.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5240.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
就後續建的部分是要凍結50%嗎凍結50%對我們今年的影響並不會造成什麼樣的一個這個前進的玉山凍結主要它是要到院會做一個專報才能夠解凍這個部分好像還沒有潛力 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5241.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5244.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
因為過去應該是委員會就可以去動因為當時大家的共識是你在原型件還沒做好然後就編了大額的預算他不是今年他不是20億他通過的是2840億14年的時間所以大家會比較慎重 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5260.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5263.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
因為當時的共識是這樣部長您也同意說他通過海事以後再去動之這筆預算如果在11月他沒有辦法通過的時候他甚至連動都不能動也不該動所以其實我想大家應該在聚焦到怎麼樣讓我們可以獲得一個有效的 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5280.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5305.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
還可以符合我們作戰需求裝備這樣子的一個立場我想大家都是一致的這個部分還是希望請部長可以去理解因為過去沒有潛力我們也是第一次造潛艦啊我們也沒有潛力啊所以沒關係就是都有第一次嘛後續艦的這個解凍我們不希望有太多的不確定性因為到院會去解凍這件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5306.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5328.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
如果在11月我們能夠順利交件我們當然是希望11月交件的時候我們連其他作業都來不及包括你作業費想要做什麼都來不及所以部長您放心這個沒有前例的情況之下因為我們也是第一次自己就是遣件國照嘛這也沒有前例我們大家就共同的去 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5329.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5341.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
讓我們可以在這個武器裝備上面 尤其是潛艦 大家好好的去監督然後也希望他可以做出一個好的潛艦 好不好好 謝謝 馬委員大家等我們一下 我們先測試一下麥克風 看起來麥克風壞掉了喂喂喂 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5360.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5384.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
好 謝謝那我們接下來請王定宇委員上台質詢好 謝謝召委麻煩部長有請部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5395.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5418.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
第一個我們看到昨天美國國務院他其實是大概近幾年來口氣最重的來批判中國解放軍在2月26號無預警的在屏東外海74公里的地方臨時突然的劃設一個實彈的操演區域他把聯合戰備警巡團轉做實彈軍演 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5421.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5443.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
那其實在那一個禮拜我們看了一下資料2月19號共軍在台海進行聯合戰備警巡大概每一週都一次但是21號在第二島鏈塔斯曼海域也就是澳洲跟紐西蘭中間他們在那邊也是進行實戰軍演而且真的是在澳洲的大門口開了炮2月25號 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5445.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5463.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
共軍派出南部軍區的一個海軍支隊來到越南跟菲律賓之間的南海進行實彈演練那26號就突然間在高雄屏東外海40海里大概74公里的地方無預警的突然宣布了一個射擊訓練的場域等等 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5465.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5487.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
那這是2月份大概從19號到26號發生的事情昨天3月18號不知道是約好的還是國際的共識之前那個操演是讓世界各國都予以譴責支持台海的和平穩定澳洲對中國也展示了一個抗議的態度但昨天18號國務院 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5490.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5510.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
重批中國做出的是個魯莽不負責任的動作而且支持台灣一切的自我防衛的措施瑞士更特別瑞士是一個永久中立國罕見到瑞士的外交部長外交部長發言就代表國家 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5511.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5527.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
他不僅表達譴責這樣的行為支持台海的和平穩定南海第一島鏈等地方的和平以外瑞士還表達說他們有把中國駐瑞士大使館的人叫來罵就表達他們嚴正立場然後我們台灣的國防部在3月17號 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5529.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5549.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
大概這是第二次的立即備戰操演去年12月其實有一次了立即備戰操演我看媒體寫都說這個禮拜是第一次應該是去年的12月21日左右是第一次那立即備戰操演本席是支持這個做法也就是當威脅方有可能由演轉戰 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5550.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5565.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
那我們的陸海空軍就要有能力從平時轉為戰備轉為備戰狀態所以這一個3月17號部長在今年度有人說小汗光宣布了立即備戰操演我的問題是 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5567.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5585.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
解放軍是不是有什麼徵後或者你們有什麼樣的情資見到什麼樣的危險徵後必須進行這樣子的嚇阻包含國際上力量部長可以說就說或者不清楚不清楚我們看到這個局勢那你宣布在3月17號開始立即備戰操演 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5588.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5609.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
是有什麼樣的情資跟增厚嗎?3月17號到21號這個是屬於計畫性的備戰草原它是預定的?對那非計畫性的備戰草原就是如剛剛委員所提到如果它實施一個針對性的一個軍事草原的這個活動那我們會按照它的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5610.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5633.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
操演的強度我們現在有一個灰色地帶映儲的一個地中高那我們就會想由總黨下令之後我們就會進行一個立即備戰操演來做一個對應也就是說由指揮官下定這一個他們操演的可能的狀況那我們也立即做出回應來訓練我們的那個是由參謀本部直接來處理還是交給各作戰區 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5634.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5658.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
由總統下令,然後各州安區層級以下要做立即陪戰朝延的一個動作那等於是把敵情,也就是說解放軍的動作,如果有針對性的,我們會做對應的動作我們針對我們所獲得的一些相關的一些情節所獲得的情節,然後由指揮官他自己去想定可能發生的一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5658.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5685.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
一個情況他如果要進行因應這個部分做一個這樣來強化他的一個一個實戰化的一個訓練對我們國軍的戰力實戰化訓練是有幫助的目前就國防部的監測狀況解放軍不管在人員物資各方面的動作上有沒有異狀在禮拜一嘛就禮拜一嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5686.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5713.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
禮拜一它聯合戰備警巡那這個聯合戰備警巡當然首見的就是說它是在上午的時候從六點多開始實施過一次然後到下午的應該是兩點它又再實施一次那所以這個是一個比較首度看到的一個狀況所以當然我們剛好也在實施栗子級備戰草原所以可以剛好做相對應的動作 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5724.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5739.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
我們有看到中國的外交部好像有在回應這個這應該都是套好的吧就是說他問一個問題然後他就回答說因為國務院對下架的那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5741.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5769.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
不支持台獨的那個部分他認為是境外的勢力來所以他當然他們永遠都套好的啦但他把這個軍事動作詮釋為對G7對美國的一些外交的回應他的記者會當然很長啦有很多的問題那他特別有一題是說他的從事的這個操演 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5770.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5793.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
主要針對是什麼?那一題他的回答是說他是針對美國他針對所以國務院18號也譴責他魯莽不負責任但是我現在回到這個國務院的回應也是第一次看到美國國務院這一次講得比較重用這個所謂明目張膽且不負責任而且後面多一個就是支持就全面支持台灣的自我防衛但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5794.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5820.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
剛才講的是政治外交上的定義我的意思是說他聯合戰備警巡罕見的變成上午一次凌晨一次下午一次在軍事上你們認為他在幹嘛我我們我們有各種可能的判斷那他這樣的一個兩次的聯合戰備警巡如果從這一次看起來的話應該他 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5823.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
5841.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
他特別外交部在回應的時候他講說這是一個軍事行動那事實上他是一個操演所以我認為他在現實的這個狀況之下現在這個狀況之下他能夠做到的程度是在這一個兩次的聯合戰備進行的情況之下加強他的這個強度來回應當下的這個情勢所以我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
5851.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
5871.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
當然還是不能夠掉以輕心啦不過看起來他一定要對這個相關現在的這個有關您剛剛提到的G7也好美日這個峰會所表達對台灣的知己也好還有這個美國國務院這個相關的動作也好他一定要做一些回應 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
5879.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
5893.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
我們現在所謂的軍審第一個軍法從來沒有停過陸海空軍刑法一直是在試用當中只是在馬政府時期把它改到一般的檢察官一般的法院去做處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
5895.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
5917.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
部長我這樣詮釋沒有錯嘛軍閥沒有廢過啦人家說要恢復軍閥 軍閥一直都在那裡就實體法它是一直是存在的那程序法它變成二元化了也就是說它平時移到一般司法機關暫時還要恢復那所以這個地方有一直在講說那為什麼要這樣這個是不是這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
5921.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
5948.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
當然一直在質疑我啦那我要說明的就是說從我們國防部的立場來看的話我們要平時如果不打造一個軍事審判的一個制度的話就在那暫時的時候幾乎沒有辦法運作老闆娘部長我在這個委員會十年左右了從大概每一年我都會聽到不同黨派的委員呼籲把軍神制度恢復也就是用軍事檢察官 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
5950.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
5974.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
軍事審判來處理軍人這樣可以維持紀律維持管理大概我們如果在這委員會時間夠久的話每一年都會聽到也會看到一些提案那這一次我看賴清德總統提出來的第一個他是限縮限縮軍人涉犯國安軍事犯罪才會採取軍事審判的程序那第二個呢這個還要國會修法 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
5975.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
5998.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
要經過立法院修法那我看行政院長說這個修法呢一個月內會把它review那我們私底下討論過我看到那個一個月內要把所有配套的法要擬出來其實那個是很多很多套法比我們想像的多太多因為很多新的犯罪樣態刑法的修改你要對接那個你們一個月內可以提出修法的計畫嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
6000.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
6025.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
我們會提出一個修法的綱要綱要就很難了 那個量很大所以其實限縮在軍人涉犯軍事犯罪 國安犯罪那這個原因也是來自於中國對台灣的滲透不管是共諜案 泄密案等等我們發現軍人背景的確實是他們鎖定的目標所以法律是用來維繫國家安全那也要經過國會的審查 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
6026.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
6050.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
那我這邊有兩個疑問邀請部長也許現在不用回答第一個我們當然希望提升軍法官軍檢的考選跟素質也就是軍事法官跟軍事檢察官我們在考選的制度那個都要經過考選部去考的考選之後的訓練養成希望他們有具備法律的素養 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
6051.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
6074.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
以及就是說軍人有軍人的專業法律人有法律人的專業一個軍人法律人他的專業哪邊應該著重這個在養成的時候可能要把那個中心定出來第二個建議是獨立性這個最難我們未來的軍法那個沈司長在這裡我們未來的軍法官要還在不在指揮鏈裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
6077.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
6097.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
我想我們大概也討論過啦 已經事實上討論過很多次這個是一個不好討論的命題啊就是說我們希望軍事審判要獨立嘛就像一般審判 檢察官獨立作業 法官獨立審判但是軍法官如果在指揮鏈 有學長學弟 有長官部署 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
6098.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
6118.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
所以他就會變成是一個有外部人員加入的一個人事審議委員會他會被懷疑,我不是說一定,他會被懷疑會有外部的干擾嘛所以他的這個有關他的相關的這些生煎啊,烤雞啊,那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
6119.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
6139.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
評鑑啊 淘汰這個都要有一個外部的一個機制你們現在還是沒有辦法回答說那未來的軍神有沒有在指揮鏈裡面我尊重好好研議這一題就是說我怎麼確保他的獨立性不會因為他在指揮鏈裡面要接受命令在判決在起訴上會受到 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
6140.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
6161.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
被操控的懷疑這一點可以很明確回答委員在這個審判這個部分不可能會在指揮鏈裡面法官不會法官不會檢察官是屬於檢查一體他是屬於行政權的一個部分他是一個外部獨立但是內部檢查一體我們就這樣來這個命題等你們剛要出來我們再好好的討論謝謝部長的時間 謝謝趙偉好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
6169.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
6180.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
好 謝謝王委員那我們現在請這個陳冠廷委員上台質詢那我們麥克風系統有點問題所以可能都要先用無線的我們大家休息時間再來修理你好 我們請部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
6208.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
6218.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
王偉有提到相關配套的修法大概要一個月左右會提出修法的配套鋼藥我們這樣理解是不是正確的 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
6219.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
6233.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
對,我們會提出相關的這些,因為我們已經經過一些,我們有討論了一些相關的一些綱要我們會提出來,然後來跟各界來諮詢這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
6236.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
6259.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
因為軍審法 軍審相關的制度其實現在不僅是我們國會議員那一般民眾也會有一些想要釐清或者是藉由這種質詢的方式來去了解狀況我想說這個地方我想要請教一下如果是共諜案的話像現役軍人跟退役軍人會不會用不同的審判標準還是用同樣的審判標準 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
6260.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
6281.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
那軍中的文職人員那是屬於要給軍審制度還是非軍審制度他如果沒有軍人的身份的話沒有軍人的身份按照憲法的規定就不會受到軍事審判是不會 就是人民就不受軍事審判嘛這是憲法的規定那非 就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
6282.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
6302.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
軍人跟非軍人共犯的話非軍人的部分也是交由一般司法機關只有軍人會受軍事審判最近我們聽到說國防部的說法是說觸犯陸海空軍刑法第二篇第一章有關的軍事犯罪的話會接受軍事審判 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
6302.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
6319.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
就職務上的犯罪如果現役軍官他觸犯其他的國家安全的法規不是屬於第二篇第一章的軍事犯罪而是像是國家安全法或者是機密保護法反生動法國家勤工法這個是要接受軍事審判還是一般審判 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6319.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6347.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
他有可能會跟陸海工軍刑法第二篇的那一個違反效忠職責罪或違反他的應盡的這個執意職責罪的這個部分會有一部事實的關係那如果說他有一部事實是屬於這個陸海工軍刑法第二篇的罪的話那就是一部事實就是有一部分的事實是國家國安法一部的事實是陸海工軍刑法第二篇的話那這個一部事實 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6348.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6373.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
連結到這個全部事實裡面的話就會認為應該用受到軍事審判那如果單純的是違反國安法不涉及入海公經審法的第二篇的話他就回到一般的司法機關去審判這樣所以會有一部我們講一部跟全部關係那如果他一部事實是國安法但是他也有涉及到入海公經審法第二篇的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6374.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6390.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
那現役軍人的身份 那就會歸到軍事審判來就是這樣 軍事審判會優先於其他的一般的只要它有涉及到這個第二篇的 亂攻新華第二篇的了解 那主要是因為我們觀察到進來的很多共諜的案件 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6392.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6416.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
要嘛是用國家安全法來起訴要嘛就是貪污之罪條例那如果未來是違反類似條文但是沒有涉及陸海空軍的第二篇地章的罪責就是你剛才講的那個方式去也還是歸司法機關歸司法機關一般司法機關那我們再拿一個案例我們再請教一下部長吸收軍人或者是拍攝投降影片 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6417.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6439.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
那就我們的了解 我們的了解可能是錯誤的因為部長你是這邊 你是法律專家那可能這邊有其他的司法背景的人來請給我們如果有必要的話就請給部長這個相關的訊息那如果他們吸收券或拍攝投降影片那陸海空軍刑法有沒有明確的條文那這個東西過去是用國安法或者是貪污自罪來定那現在這個是用軍審 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6441.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6455.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
軍事審判的第二章有沒有部分就剛才你講的一部分我們入海公園刑法的二十四條現在在預告當中嗎那對敵人為效忠之表示那如果是現役軍人的話那就屬於會受軍事審判的 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6456.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6477.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
OK 所以說未來現役軍人拍的投降影片就是現在還在對敵人為效忠表示或不進行職責罪的話那就屬於第二篇那如果他是現役軍人的話那就是應該受軍事審判好 那所以說未來這個就可以用軍事審判的方式去處理就對了是 如果那個24條 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6480.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6507.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
對 他就是說就看他涉及的犯罪法條是不是落來的關係我們現在24條正在預告當中另外就是說最近除了軍人身份以外包含國家安全法 國家機密保護法反滲透法 勤工法這些上述法律的案件部長你覺得這些未來是不是要上升到法律層面然後去立法做一個國家專業法庭來去審理 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6509.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6529.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
您是說這個在一般的司法機關要對對對對就我們就君審貴君審問這個就是你的看法一般的司法機關要不要設這個專庭來處理這個部分我覺得這個部分是司法院的一個權責我可能不適宜幫他待會打呼 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6529.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6555.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
我們要請你待會兒答覆我們要聽你看在國家安全的看法需不需要您的看法這沒有對或錯所以我才只是因為我們也在修法當中我們跟省委員都有在一些跟國家安全相關的那我們是希望說要做這些事情的話它有它的必要性那我們現在已經有了這一個恢復精神的話那有必要要不要做這件事情你說在一般的司法機關要不要做國安專庭的問題是吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6558.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6583.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
在法律層面明定是不是要做國安專庭就你對司法的這些理解你的看法第一個其實就涉及到我們講內部事務分配的問題如果那個案件不夠多的話那麼在一般法院裡面的內部事務分配它會涉及到一些公平性的問題也就是說如果它是一個專庭它只審那個案件那個案件量不夠多的話那法官們之間他們就會 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6584.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6602.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
就會說那是不是這個勞役不均這樣第一個,第二個法官都會進行調動所以他的這個國安專庭的一個設置他可能培養他做了兩年三年之後或者甚至一年他可能就調動到其他的這個法院去所以他 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6603.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6626.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
要長期在一個位置專門辦的話事實上是不容易在過去的經驗上是這樣子跟委員報告我當年也在推動這個所謂的少年法庭跟少年法院那後來證明只有少年法院的一個設置才可以讓這個法官長期待在這個少年法院成為專辦少年事件的一個專業法官 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6628.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6653.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
因為你專庭的話他還是會有進行內部事務分配的問題還有調動的問題但是一旦成立少年法院之後他就會以這個為職制他就會長期的待在少年法院裡面這個專業性就比較容易養成不過我覺得這以上都是我個人意見這是基於過去我想我現在這個身份不宜幫司法院做過多的回答我剛剛講了強調純屬個人意見好 謝謝部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6657.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6686.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
部長我們再來針對這個國防出版品的這個分享的部分那這個我們盡快把它跟你請教現在我們台灣有編訂的是全國國防應變手冊那有提供電子版的免費下載那我很肯定因為這是推動全民防衛教育的第一步可是國防部最近也翻譯出版許多跟國防戰略全民防衛相關的書籍那比方說這一個Kobe的這個句子戰略這一本這一本我們也有協助來去翻譯 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6687.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6714.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
還有蕭美琴副總統也一直分享的這個抵抗作戰構想那我想請問說這些書局是不是可以開放這個民眾免費取得那現在國防部出版的書局主要還是用盈利的模式那比方說國家書店 武南書局那現在這個巨子戰略它的售價是400元那抵抗作戰構想大概售價是380元那我是說 我認為啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6715.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6726.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
國防部已經使用國家的預算去翻譯了那出版這些書籍版權的費用那雖然已經算是支付了是不是要考量一些公共利益來去推動我們的全民國防不知道部長怎麼看 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6727.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6747.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
跟委員報告這涉及作權的問題就是說我們這個發行這個挹注之後呢我們跟這個有相關的作權人不管是翻譯者還是原來的這一個這個他本身的原作他都有涉及作權問題所以我們是跟他買要買2600冊然後買了2600冊以後呢我們將大部分的都是加 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6752.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6775.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
交給官兵然後加強官兵的這個資能不是以利為主那其他的部分會有流通到市面但是如果放在網路上的話我想就會涉及到說你如果他一般都是只能夠看到摘要啦你如果要看到全文的話你如果能夠自由下載那這個就會涉及到侵害那個那個義子 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6776.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6801.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
譯者跟那個原作者的這個著作權的問題所以如果說是我們國安部自己發行的期刊啊等等像譬如說這個四年啟光總檢討這個當然沒有問題因為我們就讓大家自由一下我們不會主張著作權但是如果您講的這個有關於這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6803.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
6819.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
這個他寫的這個Strategy of Denial這本書的話那這個就可能會有涉及助權我簡單的回覆就是目前翻譯的書籍我看版權是屬於國防部政務辦公室但是剛才部長提到的沒錯涉及援助授權限制所以說 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
6820.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
6843.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
如果可以的話 譬如說檢要的摘要或手冊那盡量不影響原作的版權的方式或者是使用公立圖書館的授權模式我想這些是我們在法律上可以允許的方向我們能做的 我們盡量去做那謝謝部長 那就時間到好 謝謝好 謝謝陳委員那我們接下來有請黃仁委員上台質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
6856.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
6857.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
有請顧部長有請部長部長好 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
6878.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
6904.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
有關於賴慶德總統在任內這四年期的國防總監討在3月18號日公布第一次強調建構多域的巨上任性防衛的作戰準備的方向建構地面海上空中太空及網路等多重空間領域的防禦體系但共今從各基地 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
6905.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
6934.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
前推火箭軍陸航直升機也常態部署在第一線就是要加速郵訊轉戰讓國軍來不及應對請問國軍的預警的時間是否縮短那我再請教部長你即刻回答目前針對共軍犯台我們的預警的時間大概多少明確的講清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
6936.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
6949.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
我個人覺得我們對於這個預警時間的這個縮短我們可以這樣子來回答但是我們認為是要準備多久的在做 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
6950.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
6974.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
這個作戰的整備這個時間我認為這個涉及機密我們不宜在這裡做回答不是 現在好 涉及機密但是你可以你可以大概縮短了大概幾分因為現在是在四年四年期的國防的總檢討那既然現在已經是一個非常時期由訓轉戰的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
6978.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
6995.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
一個問題了所以你們應該要非常的明確我們國防的防衛的能力及我們大概預警準備的時間大概多少我只能這樣跟委員報告這樣子好了就是說我們會有一個關鍵預警徵口的一個判斷表 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
6999.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
7015.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
那我們會將 我們認為他這個所謂的遊訓長就是他從一個灰色地帶的起走然後他突然轉變成可能全面侵犯的模式或封鎖的模式那這些關鍵議題的針口我們都會把它做一個分析 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
7015.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
7032.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
但是詳細我沒有辦法跟委員做說明那麼這樣子的關鍵疫情症我們把它分成低的、中的、高的那如果到達了中或高的時候我們就會進行所謂的二級加強戒備或一級加強戒備那到達了一級加強戒備之後我們就這個時候再觀察它 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
7036.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
7047.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
有可能是不是會採取這個行動那這個的時候會進入到我們就要跟總統進行報告然後再來我們要先動 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
7050.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
7078.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
那我們不能夠等到他成真了我們才動這個來不及我們主要的目的是在說明這一點好 部長那自己詳細的狀況要形容我們要你現在還是沒有辦法大概的一個時間因為現在共軍的操員已經是常態化甚至有些是無意警化那對台灣來講我們擔心的是一種麻痺的狀況本是提醒還是必須要警示 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
7080.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
7087.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
中共由遜轉戰的可能性所以我們就是因為不想麻痺所以我們要時時的警惕自己也警惕國人當然我們現在是要更警惕 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
7096.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
7121.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
本席認為未來的戰場除了傳統的陸海空更涵蓋太空網路及電池等環境請問共青郵訊轉戰落成證的話要以武力翻台有哪些徵兆待會你回答我一下那另外就是國際應該強化對共青聯合戰備警訊的情報收集的判斷並加強後備的 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
7125.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
7138.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
後備動員的加速國青應加強收集的能量並共青郵訊轉戰可能納入希望可能納入的漢光遠襲有沒有可能 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
7141.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
7169.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
剛您講的這些都是徵兆跟焊光演習對對對 我們這些徵兆的判斷都會納入徵兆的判斷然後做相對的應對我們都會納入這個焊光來我們從高階圖上兵推一直到電腦輔助所演習一直到實名驗證我們都會納入這些響電這樣子然後來進一步做驗證所以希望能夠納入焊光演習 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
7170.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
7192.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
那國進必須思考包含這個低軌的衛星衛星的徵兆這個通信的太空領域對戰場經營和戰爭發展的影響能夠思考這樣的一個問題所在必須你要提醒國防那關於這個四年這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
7193.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
7221.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
四連旗國防的總檢討屬於目前來講是屬於原則性的報告實際上要怎麼做還要由各交給機關部門執行所以今天很難得得知具體作為但其實從內容概要可能要看出有些哪部分雖然是我國確實要面對的問題但有些部分過於一廂情願有些是過於過度與理想化 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
7222.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
7232.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
那你看是不是有這樣的一個問題所在您是說有沒有過於一廂情願或過於理想化這個部分對 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
7235.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
7260.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
我想我們四年期的廣場檢討就如剛剛報告的我們對於這個有相關的這個區域情勢的判斷也有對於共軍他可能採取的行動我們做了一些判斷之後我們採取的一些比較新的一些做法那剛剛你也提到了我們有 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
7261.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
7278.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
提出來這個多域拒止任性防衛的這個概念那我們會根據這些晃鹿島我們的聯合作戰行動的關鍵要項裡面然後我們會利用各種不同的這個兵推跟演訓來加以驗證所以我們會不斷地來檢討每年都來檢討我們的依據敵情的這個狀況你說的對好 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
7286.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
7303.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
那為什麼我會提出這個問題來第一個第一章的內容概要看得出寫上的是基於忍戰的思維難以擺脫民主陣營和極權陣營的對抗的想法但是目前國際局勢更多的是 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
7305.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
7320.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
競爭合作的關係所以從陣營或兩旗對抗角度來看書寫國防指導原則可能會把國際局勢的過度單純化所以本席認為過於理想化 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
7321.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
7335.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
平時可以有所作為 但台灣是海島暫時全島皆為前線 極可能遭到封鎖暫時如何可能與全球公益鏈接軌所以這個就是一個問題所在另外 主席再給我一分鐘時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
7343.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
7360.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
另外就是關於國防高層是否有所作為不當不當的行為國防院高層是否有所不當的行為那這邊有一份這個裡面一個職員的一個研究員的一個陳情書 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
7365.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
7380.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
請問一下前段時間是否收到國防院一位理子組長的陳情是關於部分研究員橫跨兩個以上智庫理子高層人員乃持續佔用辦公室和 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7380.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7396.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
植物宿舍以及離子高層將國防院所屬研究員辦理停止留心帶至國防部為己用那這個部分即使沒有違法當然對於國防院 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7397.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7415.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
作為研究單位的獨立性及職場的規範產生了不利的影響所以這個部分請問一下我們希望能夠做到真正獨立公正專業部長知不知道這個事情那如何懲處未來要不要清查我想先請陳平次回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7417.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7428.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
是 跟我們報告 這個是屬於國防院內部管理的問題我們已經責成他們成立一個調查委員會有沒有七上滿下的問題現在都在調查當中調查什麼時候會請他們立刻調查 然後調查完畢那什麼時候回報很快的能夠提供給我們國防部什麼時候回報 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7439.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7461.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
這個事情都已經一個國務院的研究院的陳情都非常講得非常清楚而且你們現在有沒有欺上瞞下而且你們現在還是一概彌彰所以麻煩你們盡速回報什麼時候給我向委員報告我們盡快請國防院完成調查兩個禮拜內向委員做報告說明好 以上 謝謝好 謝謝黃委員那我們現在請陳義勇康委員上台質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7496.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7519.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
主席 有請部長有請部長是 陳委員好部長好AIT處長谷麗妍日前回應媒體的詢問有關這個川普總統的印太戰略 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7520.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7539.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
那麼他說根據美國已經解密的印太戰略的框架那可以他們參考請問我們的同仁看了沒有這份解密的這個是不是請看請這次來說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7550.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7568.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
委員好,有關剛剛委員所提示的這個機密版的部分我們是不是可以在會後再跟委員做報告這個已經解密了但是我們獲得的在獲得的過程當中還是有一些獲得的程序上面我們後面再跟您做已經在這邊了 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7571.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7599.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
是欧巴恩原来的国安会顾问他签合的解密了那解密了里面原来他这个事啊虽然是原来是列机密但是他不可以转给外国他现在机密解除已经转发了所以这个鼓励研究说请看这一份这里面呢把这个纲要版我先念给大家听啊这个英文的我们把它翻成他说目标啊是使台湾能够有效的 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
7601.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
7624.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
能夠發展有效的不對稱戰略以及能力以確保其安全免受威脅有韌性並具備有以自身條件與中國交涉的能力啊這句話接不接頭對不對話你自己的能力評估這份報告我建議大家把它看一下還包括日韓的那麼剛才這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
7627.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
7654.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
在這個報告過程中間我們特別要跟部長在這個建言就是說我們現在的因為不管你是經常戰備應急戰備提升了我們這裡面有一個交戰規則那現在大家對這個ROE也都強調了可是過去我們發現這個我們都把它放到最低層可是對空軍來講如果你攔截並不是要接戰就是伴飛 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
7656.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
7681.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
你的距離是多少500碼200碼還是允許他飛到20碼那麼海軍的艦艇半航以前美軍抗議因為我們接近到2000碼那大角度轉線都有可能碰撞像這些東西每天的狀況在變這個是需要有授權的那麼因此這個戰務令的法制化並不是光連山或是軍種作戰的 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
7683.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
7703.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
跟我們的軍法法務人員要有一個相關的互動那這個配套機制啊就是說戰務令啊要發展作戰指揮跟軍法配套的機制也就是準則教範要落實到教育裡面那現在這些東西在我們的紫灘教育戰院並沒有授課 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
7706.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
7734.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
ROE是行使自卫权以及主动攻击完成任务的权利那这个里面包括国防部我们的法律师包括国防大学就是法学研究中心战院职参教育以及联参要共同来修正因此所谓的授权并不是给低阶也就是说如果恒指所的功效因为某种原因不能发挥 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
7736.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
7757.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
各作战区各军种他作战部队的权责划分下售这个需要我们将来啊要律定这个那么甚至就说战争法武装冲突法以及海洋法公约的专业法务人员这是需要纳入课程的而不是参谋的业务 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
7757.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
7781.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
那么刚才前面有委员讲就是中共在2月26号在我们的这个经济海域那么这个做了一个临时的演训那么美方很多大家都有谴责或不同的看法那我们这个里面这次在船上的官员是引述联合国海洋法公约第56条58条但56 58 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
7786.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
7814.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
是在經濟海域但是58條最後refer到第87條還是以公海上的權利好了那現在講用經濟海域那麻煩了我們經濟海域在圖上我們只有釣只有漁權的經濟海域因為我們跟國家重疊跟菲律賓跟日本跟大陸你要把經濟海域重疊區劃出來你才能引述這個條件 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
7816.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
7830.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
那因此就是說圖像提供是很重要不是意識形態的那像我們陸軍是本土防衛作戰海軍他的接戰或交戰有公海有領海那空軍的防空 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
7831.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
7855.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
他又領空也可能境外的反制所以這些東西都跟圖跟ROE這有相關聯這個我提醒我們在這個部分一定要強化一定要從我們的法律師法學院還有國防大學的子參教育戰員一定要把這個當作課程來授課而不是用部隊長他的主觀判斷那一定要法條依據 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
7859.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
7884.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
那麼現在談到了這個COP我們如果今天去中心化其實去中心化的這個想定條件意思就是說你的指管中心有部分功能已經不能傳導到下級部隊了那這個時候的情質分享你沒有接COP可是你要有一個CTPCommon Tactical Picture我舉例我們的海馬斯 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
7886.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
7896.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
把裝備都來了 彈還沒到30公里 70公里 300公里這個系統跟陸軍現在的數位圖還沒有整合那同樣海軍的機動的魚叉飛彈 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
7898.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
7928.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
它的射程跟這個互相涵蓋那目標怎麼分還有遠程的防空飛彈如果這個時候各單位的授權分成負責不能妥協就產生重複擊中目標或者是漏掉哪個目標這個部分是很重要的那麼因為時間有限了我後面就不再用戲圖我再下去後跟您的幕僚我們做一些建議我特別強調ROE要變成我們的課程 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
7928.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
7947.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
一定要在國防大學或是法律系來教這個課程並不是連山的作業單位或是軍種的作戰單位他去定這個遊戲規則因為過去我們辦行連美軍都抗議說你太靠近了那每天他不是定性的那空軍的防欄半飛 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
7950.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
7977.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
500碼200碼老公游的時候搞危險動作搞到20碼這個東西長官不授權飛行員不能自我做判斷所以這個部分希望大家努力在ROE的部分納入課程而且是作戰跟法務要共同來協助那以上我提出建言謝謝各位好 謝謝委員我們下去之後我們就我們已經做還有應該要精進的部分再跟委員做個請委員做個指教這樣子好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
7994.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
8007.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
好 那這個這個 楚英委員不好意思那個部長先休息一下我們休息一下然後順便因為剛剛麥克風有一個問題我們就趁這個休息時間先處理一下先 我們先抓五分鐘先抓五分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
8034.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
8039.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
我先關掉 因為他軟禮抓不到這要換掉 要換掉的話可能要下午 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
8050.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
8067.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
那不然大家都先用無線齁現在時好時壞了對嘛 婉君嚇到了那我要下午的話去辦公室訪問好啊 好啊 沒關係不過有 最好沒有人訪問反正是我旁邊的 我都跟他講我先用手機 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
8077.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
8077.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
鮮奶油 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
8100.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
8128.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
對對對對對對對對對對對對對對對對對對對對對對對對對對對對對對對對對對對對對對對對對對對對對對對對對對對對對對對對對對對對對對對對對對對對對 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
8142.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
8143.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
欸那你又開了應該是在這裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
8493.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
8501.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
好 那我們會議繼續那這個麥克風系統可能還是不太穩定所以待會就請用這個無線麥克風那我們現在請林楚瑩委員上台質詢謝謝主席 主席有請顧部長有請部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
8522.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
8536.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
林委員好部長好部長我想要針對我昨天在總質詢的時候問到的有關於紅色供應鏈去紅色供應鏈這個部分因為我想前面很多委員都已經質詢到了有關於就是我們這2025年的國防的四期的國防總檢討當中那麼對比2021年我們可以看到是台美的國際合作跟交流尤其在軍事上面其實已經是越來越明顯 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
8550.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
8574.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
那麼在軍事交流合作的部分它除了是有專節納入之外包括這當中也特別提到了軍事的融資還有就是總統提用權的部分我想美國政府對於台灣的這個軍事的合作已經展現得非常的明白但是怎麼樣能夠去紅色供應鏈這個部分本席還是有一些存疑的因為以本席所關注到的就是說現在很多的廠商 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
8576.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
8591.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
它是不是被列入所謂的紅色供應鏈或紅色廠商這個部分它其實是有一些可以鑽的巧門比如說它是來自於中國或者是中國內部旗下黨政軍所經營的 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
8595.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
8615.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
孫公司甚至於是曾孫公司他到境外比如說新加坡之外現在更可能的包括像美國或其他地方他來設立一個公司之後然後在台灣再來設立子公司或相對的方法我想這些手法跟巧門因為部長過去的資金力我想您一定很了解 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
8616.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
8629.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
但是我要提到的是在我們做採購的過程中或合作的過程當中現在政府內部到底有沒有這樣的一個SOP或是有這樣的組織比如說昨天像經濟部他會針對投審會去看這個公司是不是所謂有中資可是通常我們第一時間我們不會真的去採購的時候特別去問經濟部除非有一些疑惑的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
8643.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
8648.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
那麼如果是這樣在已經名列入在所謂的接軌供應鏈安全體系當中要去紅色供應鏈的時候到底有沒有一個跨部會廠商的查核系統而這個系統該如何建置有沒有一個想法跟方向 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
8662.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
8688.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
我想大概要分兩個部分一個是我們採購的貨品本身嘛那這個要去紅那另外一個就是說來投票的廠商要去紅大概是這兩塊的部分是那就這兩塊的部分這個我們採購的貨品的部分呢我們現在跟採購是多次的討論之後我們現在大致上有一個全排性的一套這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
8690.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
8716.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
禁用這個大陸地區香港澳門產品跟旅業驗收的作業指導的一個要點那這個要點我們現在就是按照這個要點要去跟這個所有這個會辦理採購業務的人來做一個宣講那就這個部分會涉及到說從一開始的規範然後到後面的驗收要如何進行驗收 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
8717.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
8729.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
這個大概都要有一套的一個程序那現在委員剛剛提到的另外一塊更麻煩的當然就是這個廠商的這個部分我想就是採購要點在那裡但是我相信我們的相關的這個國軍的單位絕對不會蓄意去 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
8735.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
8747.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
都是事後被發現只好用這個要點去解約但是前期的預防就是部長你是要回應的有沒有可能有機會預防或者用什麼方式可以有機會跨部會的先做查詢應該是說這個問題要從這個他本身這個股東的這個結構面上面來看 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
8764.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
8768.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
那如果按照我過去在國安會的經驗就是說當這個股東的這個結構他上層的結構啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
8773.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
8796.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
可能是這些什麼VBI公司或者是這些其他國外的這個公司那這個的時候呢可能就要稍微要注意去看就是說它在上一層它是長什麼樣子那這個部分呢有些時候呢就據我們的國內以前是投審會現在應該是失了吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
8800.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
8825.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
他要做一個要去跟他們去做一個相關的一個諮詢就這一塊的部分我必須承認他有些有難度譬如說BBI公司BBI公司他就不容易去清查這個部分所以這個部分還要透過一些相關的國安機制他們要協同去進行調查 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
8825.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
8853.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
好 我會提出這個質詢就是也是提醒國防部跟其他的跨部會在處理有時候去紅色供應鏈的時候恐怕不能只有國防部就像部長所說的還是需要其他國安單位的協助尤其是我們在做軍事採購的部分我相信國防部也會特別的仔細那當然我也希望是有一個跨部會的機制能夠來做一個協助啦因為這個確實不是那麼容易都比較容易是亡羊補牢或是事後才發現或是有人舉發這個部分 對 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
8855.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
8872.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
那另外一個其實本席要關注的問題就是剛剛呢有委員其實就特別審好幾個委員都提到了有關於我們現在軍事審判制度的部分甚至於有委員在質詢的時候也把這個名嘴的這個網路的 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
8875.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
8887.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
節目都放上來了那麼我想這個大概就是大家需要在社會上還做進一步釐清的就是當然委員他自己擔心的是他不是軍人那麼他會不會就成為這個軍事審判的對象剛剛部長也講得很清楚啦就是說如果不是軍人就不會是但是如果是一般的民眾涉入了相關的事件當中那麼透過軍人然後達到洩密的時候那像這樣的案件該如何處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
8904.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
8909.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
如果是現役軍人犯這個實務上的犯罪的話那就屬於受軍事審判了 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
8910.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
8936.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
但是如果說一般的民眾他在參與案件期間他會變如果在這個案件當中他是其中但他不是現役軍人必須要現役軍人的時候犯罪好那言下之意這已經講得非常清楚了就是說這個軍事審判即使這個制度重啟因為他是要職務上犯罪所以他一定是現役軍人他有可能職務上犯罪不是現役軍人邏輯上是不可能犯我們講的所謂的軍事犯 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
8937.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
8944.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
好所以說這個也是非常的清楚包括就是只要你不是現役軍人就不會納入這個軍事審判的制度但是根據本席所找的這些媒體的報導大概我們一年當中大概有300多件的相關的這個所謂軍事審判的案件就是軍人涉入的案件 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
8957.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
8961.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
那麼以我去年4月的時候曾經就質詢過了那就是我們根據這個陸海空軍懲戒法跟軍人權益的處理辦法我們有曾經招募過國防法務官28名那麼如果加總起來所現有的包括我們的將官上位62名中校的54名衛官是7名再加書記官等等 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
8982.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
8995.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
在面對現在現有的軍事法官的數量來得及或者是說能夠應付現有的三百多件的案件嗎那麼在這個部分的準備因為其實當時我在質詢的時候就有特別提到那我那時候只是在想說我們在招募這個所謂國防法務官的過程當中其實 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
9004.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
9026.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
如果對比這個一般的律師的考試當時是剛好兩者是撞齊的嘛所以我就覺得說那這兩者之間會不會我們招募上面會有一些所謂誘因不夠或者是風險不夠但現在看得出來其實應該是是不是事前就已經要做這個準備但是目前到底我們的軍法官數量夠不夠陰影 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
9028.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
9048.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
跟委員報告,剛好因為現在陸海公軍懲罰法,那個軍人權益事件處理法通過,那預計今年七月要實施那所以地方軍事法院要成立全保費,來負責處理這個再申訴跟附審的案件那麼另外高等軍事法院要處理這個行政訴訟的這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
9050.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
9078.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
那所以這個部分這個應該開始就剛好有一部分的能量來進行一個練兵尤其特別是行政訴訟部分那現在又要跨到這一個軍事審判這個部分來那這分三點跟委員說明第一點他三百件裡面到底是哪些犯軍事職務上的犯罪這個我們要跟守安查明因為有可能是犯一般的刑事犯罪這是第一點第二點我們以後軍法官的這個部分要確保他的獨立性 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
9078.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
9104.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
所以我們剛剛才會提到這些相關的組織法或者是人事條例那第三個就是我們可能會有一個多元選才的管道就是說我們的來源有可能是透過考試有可能透過這個他本身是律師那我們經過甄選那也有可能是國安法務官也經過甄選但是這個部分我們為了確保甄選的公平我們應該會請納入外部的人員來成立這個人事審議委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
9105.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
9126.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
來進行一個多元的選裁那確保這個軍法官的品質這樣子好 所以我想本席提出這樣質詢也是認為說這個不能真的只有所謂戰時尤其是現在平時戰時也進入一個灰色地帶那麼提早來做這些包括相關的軍法官的這個所謂人才的培育或者是充實是相當重要的謝謝這個部長的回覆 謝謝好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
9133.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
9137.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
謝謝林委員 那現在請翁曉林委員上台質詢主席好 接下來有請部長有請部長 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
9160.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
9164.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
謝謝部長部長我在這裡我想先首先先請您這個說明一下您知道就是本席其實也有提軍事審判法的修法我有看到您提出來是有關軍事審判法的三四條的修正好請問一下就是就您的這個法律的解釋我本席所修的軍事審判法第三四條的修法 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
9189.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
9196.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
這個是像現在的國防部所講的是暫時跟平時都要恢復軍事審判嗎我的修法裡面有這麼說嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
9200.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
9220.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
您的修法34條主要是就犯罪事實是一部那現行是要因依刑事審判法追訴審判時全部依刑事審判法追訴審判那您要修改成犯罪事實是一部因依這個就是所謂的軍事審判法來追訴審判的時候全部依軍事審判法來追訴審判這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
9221.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
9237.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
所以呢,我現在修的這個法的目的,我本來是要幫你們國防部解決問題的結果現在好像外界都認為說,我修的這個法是代表說在連平常的時期都要適用軍事審判,是這樣的意思嗎?呃,我想我沒有這樣說了 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
9242.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
9255.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
所以部長您的看法呢是不是我現在修的版本只是在強調暫時的時候如果當軍人同時違反陸海空軍刑法跟普通刑法的時候才交由軍事審判審理而不是跟你們現在所講的軍事審判法的修法的方向是不一樣的 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
9262.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
9276.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
對 那因為這一條有關就是屬於所謂的普通法跟特別法兩最競合的部分那一 特別法優先的原則的話優先適用軍審方法進行追溯審判我想這部分的修法在我們日後的修法方向也是會如此的 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
9276.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
9280.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
好 那麼所以我再次強調我的修法 我修軍事審判法我並不是認為說是要在平時時期就要恢復軍事審判制度要不恢復軍事審判制度未來軍法官的參審制如何這個我覺得還需要更仔細的討論那接下來我想要請教 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
9295.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
9305.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
這個部長一個問題就是說你們這次所提出來的未來在軍人職務上犯罪的時候不管是在戰時和平時都要交由軍事審判審理請問現在實務上是出現什麼問題嗎交由普通法院審理有治安難行的地方嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
9312.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
9326.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
我想我在這裡最主要的一個考量就是說如果平時不重新打造一個新的軍事審判制度的話暫時幾乎是不可能有那個能量來從事軍事審判的因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
9327.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
9345.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
他就荒廢了嘛因為他已經荒廢了這麼久了那所以如果現在我講了所以我一直在講說我不是要回復過去那個被人詬病的軍事審判而是我要重新打造一個合乎正當程序公平審判原則的一個新的軍事審判那暫時的時候才能夠才能夠真正的能夠有這個能量來進行這個所謂的因為現在還是在平時暫時二元化的狀態我想是這樣因為民進黨政府執政已經到現在九年了 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
9357.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
9382.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
這九年裡面 民進黨政府從來沒有考慮過軍事審判沒有考慮過軍法官的他們的生涯他們如何要培養在民進黨政府執政這些年來 我們軍法官已經停招12年了在上個會期 本席不斷地強調希望國防部能夠先恢復軍法官考試請問你們今年會恢復軍法官考試嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
9383.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
9400.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
這一點我們還要跟這個考試院那邊做一個所以你們連軍法官都沒有想到說要先恢復考試就要來修改教育制度跟委員報告我覺得我比較傾向也是一個多元選材的一個觀念也就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
9401.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
9418.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
我過去以來長期從事這方面的部分單單考試這一個部分不足以來確定這一個軍法官的素質所以軍法官的養成跟軍法官的多元選材這些相關的配套是我們現在在思考的一個重點也就是說謝謝部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
9419.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
9436.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
按照您的說法您就是不相信現在軍方這個國防大學他們可能有能力去培養軍法人才說要從外界再去尋求其他的管道來這個徵選軍法官我希望有一個我希望有一個司法院 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
9437.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
9455.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
基本上也有多元選才 多元領選司法官的途徑可是參加真實的人非常非常的少現在人越來越多了請你們去跟司法院去要資料我現在要講一下 現在每年有多少件的軍人案件司法院之前曾經發布了一個新聞稿說每年有多少個軍人案件 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
9464.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
9484.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
我們現在沒有辦法百分之百確定剛剛已經回答林柱英委員的問題就是說他現在有關軍人涉犯這個犯罪的時候有可能是一般刑法的犯罪有可能是這個入海公行法第三篇的也有可能是入海公行法第二篇的所以我們要去確認一下我想我在這邊再講個事實從109年到113年期間其實這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
9492.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
9511.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
違反國防違反國安相關特定案件的案子頂多也只有103件那麼就司法院他們這三年以來他們所收到的有跟軍人有關的案子不翻剛剛部長您說的是什麼樣子的一個犯罪行為總之是交由普通法院來審理的 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
9512.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
9536.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
也不過是佔他們的0.12%也就是一萬件的新收案件當中與軍人有關的只有12件這是地方法院受理的高等法院受理的呢一萬件的案件當中只有27件是與軍人有關的其實這個案件數基本上是佔整個的法院的受理案件數是非常非常低的 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
9538.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
9545.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
我認為說你們今天是不相信我們的法院法官有足夠的能力可以去去審理與軍人有關的這個案件嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
9551.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
9569.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
我剛剛跟委員報告了就我個人觀念我還是比較重視在平戰轉換這一個部分平時要建立重新打造一個新的軍事咱們的制度暫時才能夠有那個能量來我們看一下您過去怎麼說您過去說這個您不相信軍人的軍事審判有獨立性的可能要恢復軍事審判您現在是說要全新打造一個全新的軍事審判制度 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
9578.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
9586.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
可是過去從來沒有規劃 現在突然之間要冒出來說要打造全新的軍事審判制度而且在非常短期之內就要做完 有可能嗎而且這個一個很嚴重的問題就是你現在軍事法院的審判跟普通法院的審判未來的職權要怎麼樣去釐清 以剛剛講的那個什麼中間人的犯罪案件來看 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
9604.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
9632.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
他的正犯是在軍事審判由郊遊軍事法院來審理那他這個中間人他可能教書犯或幫助犯用郊遊一般的法院來審理這不會出現一個這個未來在這個訴訟審理上面的矛盾嗎所以有關這個部分就是涉及到司審跟上訴審的救濟問題這個部分我們會跟司法院跟法務部來做一個協商所以我在想你們其實目的還是想一網打盡 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
9633.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
9659.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
不管勝犯是不是職業軍人然後只要是中間有可能跟這個軍人有關的未來所有的案件都會併到軍事法院來一起審判從你們現在的規劃來講其實就可以看出來這樣的矛盾委員您應該很清楚這個憲法就保障非軍事非現役軍人不受軍事審判這我非常的清楚所以這也是我們現在在考慮你們現在所提出來的這樣的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
9664.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
9666.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
請不要忘記您過去曾經說過什麼您不相信軍事審判制度的你認為說軍事審判它還是有這個軍法官還是有服從這個軍階服從上級還是有軍階服從上級掌管命令的義務所以我希望您能夠這個警禁之前說的話不要說現在換了一個總統就換了一套說法然後軍事審判制度基本上我沒有反對但是必須要 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
9693.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
9695.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
深刻的必須要這個精心的來這個研擬規劃我們不希望看到軍法官來背黑鍋 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
9704.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
9725.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
因為法院不敢判的 現在交由軍法官來判法院判輕的 未來要求軍法官要判重我不願意看到我們的軍事審判制度 未來變成民進黨這個遂行要去整肅一己的手段 好 謝謝我想我會本以初衷 我們就是保障人權 兼顧真實的發現還有這一個軍機的維護 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
9729.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
9735.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
好 謝謝文委員 謝謝部長那這個接下來我們請陳俊宇委員上台質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
9757.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
9784.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
好 謝謝主席 我們有請顧部長有請部長部長午安部長首先我想針對QDR結合國防部的相關報告來請教我們部長依照我們國防法第31條的規定國防部應於每任總統就職10個月後向立法院公開提出4年的國防檢討 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
9787.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
9812.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
總檢討那今年是自民國98年以來第五次公佈那不過由於現在還有兩年一次的這個國防報告書立法院每個會期一次的這個國防部業務報告那我想請教部長您認為這個QDR的內容它的重要性為何有沒有可能未來與我們國防部的這個報告書來進行整併 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
9816.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
9829.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
你如果問我的話,因為QDR是現在國防法裡面明定的,美國已經沒有QDR了,就四年期,美國就實施這個國防報告書,那我們要做國防報告書, |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
9831.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
9857.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
那因為QDR是法律明文規定那我們當然還是要做那如果說大院覺得這樣的QDR跟國防報告書不需要這樣子重複的話那我們還是會來出國防報告書的話那我想我會如果大院同意做這樣的修正我會接受這樣子因為如果重複性高的話是整病比較不會那麼因為像美國已經沒有QDR |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
9860.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
9877.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
那我們這次這個QDR所強調的其中一個主軸是建構敏捷的應變戰力為了應對中共這種頻繁的侵擾而且甚至在模擬我們這個台灣的這種搶灘或是訪台灣的這種巷戰這種模式 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
9883.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
9901.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
那另外針對這個共軍可能由演轉戰假戲真作的這種情況發生那國軍應於這個3月17到21已經在舉行的這種首次的立即戰備的這種操演藉此證明我們聯合作戰的這種計畫確保 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
9902.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
9928.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
各種作戰的這種部隊能夠隨時從訓練轉而變成備戰的這種狀態那對這種情形目前我們在進行中的立即備戰的操演進行今天已經第三天了我想請教部長就是中共有沒有可能因為我們這種立即備戰的這種操演有更多的這種侵擾的情形 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
9931.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
9953.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
我沒有辦法排除中國可能以任何的理由或藉口來進行任何的一些軍事的一些操演那從事這些灰色地帶的洗腦也好這個所謂的一些比較強度比較高的軍事操演也好 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
9954.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
9970.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
都我們都隨時在按照我們的應用我們聯合勤監的手段來加以來提早的來查資然後我們來進行應對所以我們才有所謂的非計劃性的立即備戰朝野也就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
9971.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
9994.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
我們過去他來操演,那我們好像沒有任何的這個動應對那我們現在就是總長的這個要求就是說那他來演習,那我們相對應的也要做相對應預判他的可能的動作,我們來做相對應的操演這就是實戰化訓練裡面的一環,我想這個部分是很重要 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
9994.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
10000.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
那計劃性的這個禮拜要進行的就是說是由我們自己會有統財部我們下狀況下狀況以後來訓練誘導他然後來進行這個那指揮官 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
10006.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
10023.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
磨練指揮官的決策能力跟各部隊的應對的能力我想這個是很好的一個一種模式這樣子好那未來我們有沒有可能針對歷期的這種備戰操演模式常態來執行增加這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
10025.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
10052.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
超遠的次數我們現在預計是每半年實施一次這個計劃性的立即備戰超遠那另外針對中國可能的針對性的軍演那我們也會由於總統下令是他的強度我們也會下令進行所謂的備戰超遠所以有分成計劃性的計劃性就是上半年一次下半年一次那非計劃性就是看他一些針對性的軍演這個軍演的就是我們判斷依照我們的聯合檢診所認為他的強度 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
10054.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
10070.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
到達一定強度的時候我們中產可能會下令就說立即備戰操演那部長針對計畫性跟非計畫性的部分我們有沒有可能在未來要操演的過程裡面每次都會這個提前公布這個相關的期程嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
10072.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
10078.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
我們計劃性的備戰操演是聯度的訓練裡面但是對外會公佈嗎?沒有主動對外公佈 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
10086.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
10101.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
另外我想就叫部長一年期的EWE相關的議題國防部在去年元月份已經恢復一年期的EWE根據行政院報告顯示去年的成效還算不錯 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
10102.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
10121.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
規劃今年起要入伍的這種新兵將在八週入伍訓練的過程時增加這個手槍還有這個機槍實彈射擊並接受這個無人機還有反裝甲火箭及次針火箭操作等課程那我想請教就在 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
10122.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
10134.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
我們158週的這個訓練過程裡面我們現在加入新式的這個武器訓練之後在時程的安排上我們是不是可以有充分的時間可以讓他們來做訓練 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
10138.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
10158.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
我們現在就是說提高入伍的訓練,單就入伍來講的話,我們是不管志願役、一年級、義務役跟四個月軍事志願役,我們都統一調為八週所以我們新增的這些項目都是一樣,包括戰傷救護、快速反應設計、政案教育等等 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
10158.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
10176.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
那強化這些單兵的戰鬥技能他完訓之後他至少要能夠成為一個合格的戰鬥兵這個目標來做那151一年級的部分的話他還可以再加他的駐地訓練然後再加他的基地的訓練那使得他不但只是那個他還能夠操作更這個具備這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
10181.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
10200.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
他看他這個部隊的這個型態他能夠執行他的一個戰備任務時間充裕就對了一年期的義務相對於四個月的軍事訓練營業我想訓練的時間是相對的充裕而且我們希望他能夠紮實不要讓他覺得是在浪費他的時間跟生命 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
10202.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
10219.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
另外一個亮點就是我們加入這個無人機的訓練課程那未來我們在國軍現有的這個無人機教官人力方面是不是充足那是否已經有完善的所有的教材還有在新訓中心是不是都已經建置好相關的訓練場地這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
10223.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
10245.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
因為現在陸海空軍都陸續要建制,陸軍的部分有陸軍,海軍在海軍陸戰隊,空軍的部分可能比較大型的無人機所以這些無人機的型態越來越多,現在無人機我看日薰月異吧,你可能過個半年、一年,整個迭代的發展就往上一直走 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
10245.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
10259.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
所以無人機的訓練我們是越來越重視無人機的運用 做在運用上我們越來越重視那教官的這個部分呢坦白講就是說我們要結合民間的量人然後一起來做 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
10260.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
10275.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
那逐步來培養我們技友那當然如果照最後的目標當然都是人人都是能夠來實作來進行這個操作這個無人機這個部分是我們的一個目標但是這需要時間這需要時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
10278.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
10300.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
那最後一個問題我想就交部長就是那對於這個無人機的部分那未來退伍之後的這些軍事官有沒有可能會針對無人機的操作也納入教召我想這應該要納入這應該要納入教召以後14天我們有比較聰明的時間來讓他回復 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
10303.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
10326.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
這個他原本擁有的戰績這個部分只要想在尤其無人機的發展迅速的情況之下那麼我們有相關的這個新的配護進來之後我想對於後叫召進來之後我們也要實施新的這個就不只是無人機啦也包括再有新的一些人襲式的一些武器等等的那還有他 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
10327.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
10348.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
他是屬於哪一個部隊的他也要到那個部隊去熟悉他原來熟悉的部分這樣子好 謝謝部長那我們針對相關的訓練課程還有一些這個暫時需要的這個我們的這些武器方面我想針對訓練方面一定要著重一定要扎實對 現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
10349.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
10366.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
現在事實上重視的就是一個實作然後實戰的訓練這樣子好 謝謝部長好 謝謝陳委員那接下來我們有請鍾嘉斌委員上台質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
10375.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
10381.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
主席 在場委員先進 列席了政務司長 官員 會長 工作夥伴 媒體 記者 女士先生有請顧部長 跟軍備局鄰居長 和國防採購室的趙中將好 顧部長 軍備 還有採購 謝謝射中了 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
10394.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
10412.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
部長 兩位局長 主任 我的題目 軍工產業自治優先 外購為輔 調整採購的條件 打造自主量能第一個請教一下 五大信賴產業 軍事工業是不是其中之一是好 所以我們在軍事工業上 我們要打造我們國防產業自主的能量跟量能是這樣嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
10414.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
10441.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
是嗎是好 那我們來看一下在今年公布的四年級國防總監的當中也明白地寫出了這些國防自主跟多元化武護包括國防法第22條要自治為優先建立獨立自主的國防建設沒錯吧是我們國防產業發展條例第一條要國內研發產製武器裝備還有後勤資源我們常常以為先進武器要跟外國採購忽略了後勤資源正是我們優先可以自己產製的項目是不是這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
10443.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
10455.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
所以我們要透過國防產業發展條例第四條第二項創造國內產值跟製造國內的就業機會好 我們來看一下部長一般的產業跟軍工產業有什麼差別呢一般產業會尋求全球分工 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
10457.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
10479.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
國際市場規模最大化所以需求跟採購會尋求價格最低對外採購但是軍事工業他希望是短年供應以國內市場為優先同時暫時要能夠自力生產追求的是供應不中斷所以部長是不是我們的國防採購跟一般的民間採購追求價格最低的採購是不一樣的我們要求的是要求供應不中斷比較重要是不是這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
10480.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
10502.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
對,比如說我們的現在中科院所建立的廢彈的自製能力,那以後無人機的產業,這樣的我們也要自主能夠…聽到廢彈,聽到無人機都覺得很科技,我講一個不是很科技的,但是大家都熟,網路上啊,我們有一種叫精藥,很多人要進去,發行者可以發行,每個人的精藥都不一樣,因為是數位製作嘛,我隨時可以調整你的權限, |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
10504.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
10530.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
但是實體上我們生活中有很多類似精要的東西叫鑰匙 鎖我不知道部長有沒有搭過台鐵或高鐵那個列車長要開門有把鑰匙你覺得他每列車的鑰匙都不一樣嗎其實每列車都一樣甚至台鐵更好玩他不只開門用那個鑰匙電器箱的鎖都是用同一把鑰匙這樣子為了節約他只要避開一些閒雜任人去碰他的電器箱但是你認為我們國軍的軍械庫可以用這種方式嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
10531.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
10556.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
可以用這樣子嗎?一把鑰匙可以開所有的軍械庫,你就可能嗎?應該是不行不行,對好,我們看下一頁其實呢,我幾十年前當兵的時候當安全士官,我們交接一大串鑰匙我很好奇啊,前面的安全士官如果把鑰匙拷貝了後面的人被人偷開了,責任是誰?責任分不清楚所以在美國的美軍呢,他們早就採用了上世紀的一個構想,叫做什麼? |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
10557.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
10576.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
鎖心跟鎖頭分開什麼意思每個掛在軍械箱的鎖頭是固定的但是每個軍械是交接的時候我是連鎖心跟鑰匙我帶我自己的鎖心放進去所以責任很清楚聽起來很簡單的概念美軍大量採用我很好奇的知道這個事情為什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
10577.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
10602.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
因為美軍的最大供應商是我們台灣的製索公司啊我問他說 那我們台灣有沒有採用啊他說採用也好 不採用也罷反正我是對他來講訂單他不在意國內的這個訂單所以我這裡今天不是要幫他做請求國防部的採購我要告訴他說 像這種很簡單的東西的軍需採購台灣是有能力供應的但是另外一個東西不一樣 我們來看一下防彈衣 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
10603.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
10625.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
防彈液它主要來自於克維拉或是超高分子的聚酰所做成的它的結構是來自於它的受限來自於它每一層疊疊要用膠去合膠的壽命大概四五年所以防彈液每四五年要全部更新不然沒有防彈的效果部長這知道嗎問一下你們的軍需兩位局長主任是不是這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
10626.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
10627.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
其實呢大家會想說如果這防彈液可以用五年假設 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
10647.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
10656.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
二十萬件我五年採購一次二十萬件最便宜嘛一次採購二十萬件最便宜嘛但是當這個量的時候呢國際廠商拿不到單國內剛開始起步的廠商拿不到單 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
10660.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
10688.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
為什麼 他沒有辦法一次供應20萬件但是你叫他一年供應4、5萬件 供應得了所以我要說的是什麼 往下看一個 我們的軍需的平站的轉換你平時它是個消耗品 你可能剛好有量換發可是暫時的時候你需要大量生產但是暫時如果你沒辦法得到原料 進不來你要靠本土的軍需產業來供應 是不是這樣子所以平時的時候 我們就要開始去維持製造我們國內製造商的產量跟產能怎麼做 我們看一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
10689.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
10711.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
如果說我們未來的軍需採購你調整你不是以獲得價格最低量最大的目標你去思考怎麼樣我們每一年防彈液的採購如果你改成每年採購五分之一或四分之一國內的廠商就有機會了部長你這樣了解我的意思沒有我們要培養國內的本土軍需產業不是只有在功能技術上去要求它 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
10712.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
10727.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
有時候你們的採購條件不同也會造成他有沒有辦法生存部長您覺得未來的軍需採購如果說這個技術是國內的廠商有能力的只是受限於我們採購的數量規格以及他們的工藝你們要不要檢討 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
10730.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
10749.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
我想如果說國內有這樣子的一個自主生產因為我們軍備局的部分本身也有生殖中心軍備局要再生產防彈衣嗎跟委員報告剛剛委員的指導我們都有考量我們當初我們的抗彈板就是考量要給國內生產 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
10751.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
10755.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
對 那我們有分國內 我們有調查國內的產能所以我們這次絕標 抗氮板的陶瓷片是國內佔60% 國外進口佔40%那歐斯採取長約 我們是2加1年讓國內的廠商可以投資錢下去我們會增強我們暫時國外進口沒辦法進來 我們國內的韌性我們都是用這樣的方式去做考量的 以上報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
10774.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
10791.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
謝謝部長 我最後一點時間跟主席戰略一下其實呢 講到防彈 大家有什麼防彈衣其實未來的軍需供應上它主要是抗彈板呢 是用在裝備防護上哪一種裝備要防護 油箱其實大部分我們的無人機 無人船它未來的防護呢 就是用這種方式去組成 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
10791.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
10798.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
所以我卻說以防彈材質的這個產業來思考最後的結論請研議各項軍民採購要考量本土產業現況並透過調適我們國防採購的規模以扶植本土產業進入台灣的軍需供應鏈為方案這樣的思考可以來擬定然後給本席一個說明嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
10812.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
10839.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
好 我們想大概委員的意思應該就是說建立一個比較長擔的一個蓋子 汐水長流的長擔但是這裡面我要強調的台灣有很多隱形冠軍誰知道美軍用的這個鎖呢是台灣的廠商做最大供應商所以 但是有些的台灣的本身的供應商他正在起步所以你們的採購規格要能夠扶植本土產業我指這個目的 可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
10840.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
10848.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
好 我們來事後跟委員來做一個說明好 謝謝好 謝謝鍾嘉斌委員的質詢 我們部長先請回好 繼續我們邀請楊瓊英委員質詢楊瓊英委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
10864.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
10868.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
楊瓊英委員?楊瓊英委員不在,那我們請張祺凱委員質詢我們有請顧部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
10896.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
10910.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
今年國防部的預算增加將近400億這是歷史上的一個新高事實上這個三減的幅度也是最近幾年的新低今天我們駐美代表余大雷 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
10911.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
10935.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
有一個華爾街日報的一個專訪今天最新的消息他特別在強調我們台灣最近這十年國防預算已經翻了一倍了已經翻了一倍了可是呢 我跟你講前陣子出現一個非常奇怪是不是有人到美國去告洋狀而且還說了謊所以導致 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
10937.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
10942.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
美國國防部的這個次長提名人柯博吉說台灣的國會大山的這個經費令人不安 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
10950.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
10971.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
怎麼會出現這麼離譜的這麼離譜的謠言跟委員報告您這個螢幕上講是3.46應該不對吧應該是3.84億吧終究把這個算進來也是近年來的新低嘛對不對最重要是剛剛講的沒有不是新低不是新低喔不是新低84億就是新低最近幾零的新低啦最重要沒有部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
10972.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
10993.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
最重要他是創了歷史以來的新高嘛我剛特別跟你講我們駐美代表為什麼要你現在講的是指預算佔新高那三減數沒有創新低啊最近幾年的新低啦我們預算一直在穩健的成長但是呢我們今年算的是84億你沒有算新低啊你這個講話也不對你說只3.46億是不對啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
10996.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
11015.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
對啦 就是三減 你說不是歷年新低 可是最近幾年的新低啦這個是學你們卓院長講的 卓院長沒有卓院長一直在講說什麼凍結是歷年新高 我跟他講過去光是有八個年度比他就超過了結果他就改成最近幾年凍結的新低 這個我們接受啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
11017.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
11031.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
沒有啦 部長現在不要爭議這個 現在最重要是你增加你現在還有一些針對性的刪減跟那個凍結凍結還要經過大院專案報告還要能夠同意所以部長 那個跑電話問你你已經撤過清管會主委 你也撤過國安會的這個秘書長你印象中有凍結的預算沒有被 後來被解凍了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
11038.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
11066.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
以前凍結預算都在委員會就解凍啊沒有沒有在委員會解凍你嚴重被誤導了我去查了一次 院會要求凍結以後要院會報告以後解凍了很多問題是後來都解決您舉一個例子那我就不得不說那你舉一個例子哪一個案子要在院會專案報告同意以後才可以解凍你告訴我你隨便去翻每一年都好幾個案子不是專案報告啦那個部長你完全弄錯了 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
11067.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
11075.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
立法院的立法院叫你去院會提專案不見得是一定是有專案報告可能是提了一個聽我講完聽我講完有兩個層次一個是你提了一個報告來就解凍了對不對這個是目前你可能最希望的連報告都不要第二個是 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
11084.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
11097.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
就是你提了報告來以後 經過立法院的解凍像昨天我就很清楚跟交通委員會講交通委員會在上個會 去年差不多這個時候他經過一次的會議 他們解凍了31個凍結案啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
11100.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
11104.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
你已經當了金管會主委當了秘書長跟委員報告您這邊凍結了899億去年才凍結2億都是委員會書面報告或專案報告沒有在院會做專案報告才可以解凍你的凍結數高達899億其中 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
11121.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
11146.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
業務費的部分應該是佔了744億業務費是所有部位全部凍結了30%那會單獨叫你一個國安部長去那邊報告嗎當然是整體提出來以後整體就處理了嘛這很簡單 你不要想太誤導最重要的部長張委員也不是院長我不曉得院長要如何主持這個到院會專案報告他跟你講從以前的往例啊這個解凍只要是你解決的問題為什麼會凍結 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
11148.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
11166.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
就是因為我們每次問你們問題的時候你們要尋答的時候不回答問題的時候當木頭人不回答對不對我們的調查權你們也不給我們所以是用預算權去凍結完之後叫你解決問題啊重點是你說解決問題就解決 最重要的來我來幫王定宇打到不平你講說那個預算被大砍我問你如果砍的是對的內銷專案買無人機對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
11173.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
11192.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
那個原因是因為美國他們自己本來報給我們多少116億對不對後來是他們自己改的啦改了55億那這個要不要刪減連王定宇都贊成啊對不對結果變成是柯建民出來講所以王定宇罵他說你認知是不是有問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
11193.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
11217.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
明明是美國自己的報價把他剪下來每一部分都很民主民高當然是要刪減啊各位委員報告我們在外交國安委員會這些的都經過大家朝野在外交國安委員會大家都同意現在主要的部分是到了院會之後你比如說我一直在講的國外的旅費跟訓練費用的支出 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
11218.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
11244.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
他最重要的就是他寫一個不得流用你這個不得流用就完蛋了我們現在我已經坦白講到國外協訓了你現在講的都是立法院成立以來每一年都是這樣審議算沒有很多規定沒有流用的沒有不得流用這四個字出現過嘛通山的巷子裡面沒有這樣子我不要說要你下台我說我拿出來不要講一個如果有十次不得流用你要不要跟全民道歉 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
11244.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
11261.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
不要講一次喔我去舉十個例子出來你要不要跟人民道歉通山的項目過去這個是立法院長久審議算的怎麼會沒有流用這個字眼呢這是預算法裡面明定的啊每一年都這樣沒有在通山的項目裡面去講不得流用的 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
11261.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
11281.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
有 阿爸部長這樣好不好 我提十個 你跟前面道歉好不好我提十個 你跟前面道歉好 OK 現在最重要的 凍結是可以解凍的部長你的責任應該是盡快提出解凍案我們院會或者是委員會趕快通過 趕快解決問你一個比較重要的 人民股關係可是那個院會要求我們要花費30%以上才可以去申請解凍那這個又設下了一個門檻現在已經三月底啦 不就是差不多時間了嗎沒有啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
11291.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
11306.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
議連的 部長 部長你做一下顧為政務官啊 每一年禮拜都是這樣我們會遵照委員的指示 儘速提出解凍案也希望議員會儘速進行解凍對 就是這樣 對 你來這邊是要解決問題的問一個民眾現在最關心的 這幾天啊有出現兩個很重要的議題 一個說我們的義務役啊要從一年延長為兩年 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
11320.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
11335.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
第二個是女性可能要服兵役部長,這兩件事情有可能成真嗎?沒有沒有任何這樣的規劃存在沒有這樣的規劃?對,沒有當初這個,一位是四個月 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
11338.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
11354.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
討論一段時間就變一年了對不對這段時間美國有沒有關心希望我們自己防衛自己把定義延長到兩年我沒有接觸過美方給我任何這樣的訊息那部長因為你應該任期應該還有三年你能不能保證在你的任期內不會我們的義務役的 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
11357.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
11369.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
議期不會從一年變兩年我怎麼知道我的任期還要多我是政務官沒有任期所以保證你的任內我們的兵役不會從EWE不會從一年變兩年我們現在正在確實的檢討一年級EWE的訓練成效沒有做任何有關延長為兩年的EWE的一個規劃存在也沒有女性扶EWE的規劃的案子存在 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
11384.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
11410.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
我給大家看一個數據這是國防研究院的兩篇報告都是2月底密集發的兩篇研究報告第一篇 志願士兵的徵選條件結論是什麼建立想死評估女性人力服役物役的政策開發人力的來源第二篇 結論是什麼女性服役物役是未來兵役制度改革的可行方案之一 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
11411.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
11433.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
國防研究院是你國防部出席的你官方的智庫欸他為什麼要研究這個結論為什麼要女性要去服兵役國防院每個研究院都會發表他自己依據他的所認知的部分他的專業他做任何的一些報告案但這並不代表國防部的政策那你們前陣子還有聯合八清清楚楚寫嘛對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
11439.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
11464.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
你們也提出了一部分就是說要針對這個做研究啊不是嗎 理性不一不一啊沒有嗎我國防部沒有做過這樣的研究啊好啦 部長現在最重要我剛剛給你看的都是數據聯合報的報導還有你們國家研究院國防研究院的這個報告委員拿報導來做來問問題的話部長部長我們做個結論做個結論我們時間主席已經站起來了我們做個結論所以你的任內能不能保證 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
11466.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
11492.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
兵役不會從一年變成兩年 女性不會服兵役國防部現在沒有任何有關女性服藥服義務役以及要將義務役延長為兩年的任何規劃存在沒有這樣的規劃嘛那你的任內會不會推動變成是兩年我不知道我的任內有多長所以你不願意保證就對了我沒有什麼可以當四年這樣子的一個講話存在不是四年 你的任內你不願意保證嘛現在就是要保證還是不保證 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
11493.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
11498.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
報告委員 我剛剛已經一再的重複了國防部現在沒有任何女性服務一無一跟一無一延長為兩年的規劃對 沒有規劃嘛那你可不可以保證不會推動這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
11506.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
11526.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
我們現在就沒有這樣子的任何的對不會推動嘛你意思是不會推動嘛對不對不會推動你任內也不會出現這兩個我現在沒有做過要有做過要有這樣的推動的這樣的一個計畫規劃存在啊部長你這樣的答案是閃抖還是保證說不會推動我沒有任何的閃抖嘛委員你這樣子一直在repeat的一些這樣子謝謝張委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
11528.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
11553.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
那全民看看部長到底是說他在規避還是他不會推動還是會推動謝謝張委員的質詢那部長先請回好 我們請沈伯陽委員上台質詢好 謝謝主席 那有請顧部長 謝謝好 我們請顧部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
11562.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
11578.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
是 省委部長好辛苦了這兩天我們的質詢的時間可能有時候會拉得比較長民眾黨的委員問的問題問的時間通常都會比本委還要來得更久我不知道為什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
11579.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
11607.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
那我現在想問一下因為剛剛地域委員其實也有提到就是這一個游訓轉戰這一個部分那因為這一次在三月我記得是在對三月的時候新聞有講到這個立即備戰操演那立即備戰操演當然看起來可能跟漢光演習有些應對那我這次看到夜報裡面有特別提到這個海底電纜的問題那因為前面呢我看到這個部長有提到說這個低中高強度的分級研判灰色地帶那我想問一下就是說因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
11609.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
11627.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
國人現在對於灰色地帶的這個定義當然並不是那麼的清楚然後呢現在大家又很關心海底電纜那我知道海底電纜哥大概也不會進入到第一這一個部分的一個分級那現在關於這些不管是分級啦灰色地帶的一個解釋啦國防部有沒有一個比較精簡的說法可以跟國人講一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
11630.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
11632.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
我們認為中共會以隱蔽性的方式來掩蓋它真正的企圖這是我們現在的判斷 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
11645.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
11659.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
所以我們會現在就各項的這個這個焊光的部分我們一開始就是灰色地帶的映出因為我們認為灰色地帶的映出來導致最後有可能轉成全面作戰的這個階段 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
11661.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
11682.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
那灰色地帶的這個硬處我們就必須要有充分的這個掌握判斷它的徵喉判斷它的威脅程度然後我們現在已經有一個低中高強度的一個關鍵預警徵喉的一個判斷表然後根據這些判斷我們來研判那所以我們今天 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
11683.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
11700.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
講坦白一點就是說他一直說他在訓練或者他一直說他在演習可是他也許隱藏著他真正的企圖烏俄戰爭就是一個明顯的例子所以我們這個的時候要提高我們的立即備戰的一個所以我們要操演 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
11701.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
11726.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
那我們也要它是它低中高強度我們可能就是說那到了某個強度我們就升級為二級加強戒備那我們到某個強度我們升為一級加強戒備那這個時候是在我們軍中本身依照我們的常備部隊我們就做立即這樣的應對以防以防它掩飾它的真正企圖以後讓我們觸然不及反應這是我們現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
11728.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
11738 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
國軍要面對這樣子的一種很隱蔽的這樣的一個可能的然後隱藏他的真正企圖說應該要要立即的快速的應對的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].start |
11740.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].end |
11767.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].text |
我們認為應該要做的事情謝謝部長因為我覺得這個是有必要跟國人解釋那剛剛下一頁這邊的部分本來就想說請國防部講一下這整個預期的效益那我相信剛剛的講法應該對國人來講算是很清楚那但是有一個小的點就是說我們在去年的時候其實也很強調這些官兵的權益等等之類的那我不知道這一次因為這一次的這個操演那不知道這一個有沒有相關的一些補駕什麼等等的措施呢補駕補駕 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].start |
11770.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].end |
11799.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].text |
有 我們立即備戰操演就休假的這個部分呢我們當然會有一定的兵力要求那事後應該會進行相關的補加有關這個剛剛補充報告我是作息室次長那有關官兵的休假權益我們這個是演習的目的主要是能夠強化立即備戰部署那因此他是依據演習狀況來提升並沒有全面性的管制休假 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].start |
11799.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].end |
11810.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].text |
那另外官兵如果有特殊的事故他可以依照我們請休假的規範像所屬單位長官提出請休假核准之後還是一樣依照他的室友來去實施請休假 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].start |
11812.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].end |
11831.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].text |
因為從現在開始就是說一些演訓等等之類的那我知道最近也在做一些驗收那我那一天有去這一個相關的地方然後去看這個驗收的這個狀況那我在驗收狀況的時候呢我在聽這一個海軍在講的時候他們也有提到說因為現在要驗的數量也多然後常常會有加班的情形 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].start |
11832.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].end |
11854.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].text |
所以就是說就這方面而言不只是這一次這個相關的這個為期五天的這個演訓還包含在驗收的團隊等等之類的因為我們現在對無人機的需求真的是增加那所以呢我們要驗收的人不一定有那麼多那個團隊其實會常常加班所以相關的這個權益啊有沒有過勞的情形啊什麼再拜託就多請注意啦拜託多請注意 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].start |
11855.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].end |
11881.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].text |
是 我們有聽到一些反應那我想我們會注意好 謝謝那這個上次我是看到副部長在這個視察的時候有提到這幾個什麼名利 信用 資通 金融社福醫療 資源CI跟物資配送這五個面向有幾個地方是因為過去有質詢過我想追一下一個就是關於這個第一個這個名利 信用的部分無人機的這個飛操手目前的這個訓練我放一下這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].start |
11883.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].end |
11904.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].text |
下一個這一個我問兩個事情第一個是非操守是這一個另外一個是空域跟時段的管理因為目前來講五輪機的這個測試變得多那問題是需要跟民航局協調那現在能夠使用的空域又少那現在針對這件事情目前應對因為這個之前有問過啦那目前這個應對的方案是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].start |
11907.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].end |
11932.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].text |
確實我們現在在入境的五輪級飛行訓練中心的應該是在三軍聯測基地南測中心南測中心事實上空域還是不夠所以現在應該是在應該要在跟委員報告另外在營區上空400尺以下這個我們平常的例行的訓練那這個是不需要跟民航局申請 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].start |
11938.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].end |
11958.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].text |
委員好,我是秦次事次長。我們前一個職務在空作部擔任副指揮官的時候,也針對無人機空域管理的這個部分跟民航局做過協調。那這個部分剛剛如同陸軍參謀長所講,400尺以下這個部分是在民航局的無人機 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].start |
11961.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].end |
11986.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].text |
專章裡面它有預訂的那在特定的區域裡面這樣子的這個操作是許可那超越這個區域的話也有一定的這個管理程序那這個在這個108年的時候我們國防部也另頒了這個管理的作業程序那現在定期工作部呢會依照這個各使用操作單位的需求跟民防局定期來開會針對他們新增的需求來做研討以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].start |
11989.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].end |
12006.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].text |
謝謝 因為剩一點時間我就再問一下這個上次已經上次我們有在辦公室討論過了這個我就不多問就是針對國防棄職的部分軍省今天非常多人問所以我覺得我不要去重複一些前面的問題不然就是一樣的問題一直重複我相信部長也很累 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].start |
12006.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].end |
12027.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].text |
那大家都有提到一些共犯或什麼等等的問題我比較想問的反而是因為過去軍法官他在隸屬在國防部之下被遭受到質疑嘛那現在我記得部長有提到就是說不管是之後要人審會啊仿照法官法啊什麼等等之類的會確保他的獨立性那剛剛部長有提到多元這件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].start |
12027.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].end |
12050.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].text |
我想問一下就是說目前來講如果說從多元來禁用這件事情目前的規劃到底是什麼因為我覺得多元這件事情大概會跟獨立性會息息相關就是有可能是律師然後轉任那有可能我們現在有辦的法務官考試我們會從中選拔優秀人才那另外當然也不排除有居法官考試 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].start |
12051.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].end |
12073.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].text |
但是考試完之後,我們還是要來選,來由人審會來把握,所以通過這樣的一個多元的一個甄選的一個程序,主要是讓這個,讓他們都,我們現在想的是說他們還要進入部隊去進行這個對食物的理解, |
| transcript.whisperx[429].start |
12074.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].end |
12096.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].text |
那所以讓他一方面就是說養成讓他對法律的專業之外然後對部隊管理的事務也有一定的認知那這樣子的話在這個軍事審判上面應該會更視切然後能夠比較的來合於我們對於這個軍人在職務上他應該有的作為的一個認知這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].start |
12097.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].end |
12126.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].text |
好 謝謝部長那我覺得如果說真的是一個全新的軍事法庭這個小建議啦乾脆既然這麼新可以把它叫做一個新的名詞比如說國防法庭啊什麼等等之類的或許是一個考慮的方向那這個之後我們可能再因為我看這是一個長期的規劃啦組織法 法官法 檢察官相關的大概會是一個長期的規劃那希望之後呢看有多時間我們再來討論往這個的方向前進所以我們會盡快因為事實上是一個工程所以我們會盡快來努力 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].start |
12127.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].end |
12155.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].text |
好 謝謝沈伯陽委員的質詢 部長先請回接下來有請王宏威委員上台質詢王宏威 王宏威 王宏威委員不在那接下來有請許巧欣委員上台質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].start |
12169.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].end |
12172.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].text |
謝謝主席 那我們有請顧部長是 學恩好首先呢 我們可以看一下這張手版在這裡呢這邊寫到了這個本院民進黨黨團針對這個立法院第十一屆第三會期第四次的報告事項裡面包含我拿反了 包含 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].start |
12196.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].end |
12225.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].text |
第39案國民黨擬具軍人保險條例第10條跟第10條16條的修正案然後還有呢國軍廚藝官兵輔導條例還有軍人待遇條例第5條修正案跟軍人待遇條例第6條修正草案都要提出復議那我想要問一下這個顧部長的態度那對於立法院在對於這些我們的軍人那提出法案修正增加他們權利那請問顧部長呢您是同意還是反對 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].start |
12226.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].end |
12242.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].text |
我們就這個軍人的待遇條例把它入法這件事情我們沒有贊成那軍人保險條例的部分好像修法的方向是刪除他的應該要的致富額是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].start |
12243.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].end |
12262.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].text |
一個是從我們就是由全額補助因為他們本來是35%是由自己自付然後我們希望可以全額補助這是一個另外一個就是過去我們就是綁四年之後第五年才能拿到一個保險的基礎也就是說如果你一二三四年你中間退掉的話那你繳的這本來的35%也會不見 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].start |
12265.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].end |
12274.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].text |
那所以說對這個來講我們很多軍人他來當軍人之後他可能兩年發現他並不是和這個工作想要離職的時候那他就會卡關大概有這兩個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].start |
12276.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].end |
12306.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].text |
我們先請志願司說明一下好啊委員好我是志願司司長跟委員報告一下就是軍人保險條例裡面我們雖然規定五年以後才可以勤領但是五年之內所繳的如果他提前離職我們是有退費的規定但是這其實還是某程度去綁住了因為五年之後比方說第六年第七年第八年來講的話其實都是能夠拿到比較好的待遇這是蠻多軍人有跟我們反映的一個事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].start |
12307.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].end |
12330.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].text |
我們是希望他們長留久用啦對於說他馬上就可以去理這件事情我們並不鼓勵但現在狀況有點不一樣因為你看一下我們去年在國軍裡面自強的狀況還有他們的壓力甚大那有一些人他可能做了這個軍人服務的時候他發現可能在第二年第三年的時候就不太適任那我們還要讓他們繼續鎖四鎖到第五年嗎這是我的一個問題喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].start |
12334.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].end |
12350.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].text |
那接下來我要問的是呢其實從去年我們這個新任的立法委員上任之後軍中就已經在傳說要加薪的這件事情可是一年多以來國防部到目前來說始終沒有把這個到底要加多少那講出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].start |
12353.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].end |
12369.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].text |
那或許呢部長已經有講了比如說某一些單位的加急可是到底要加多少錢到底要怎麼樣現在的基層軍人是人心惶惶因為很多人就想他如果沒有的話我要退伍了那所以說什麼時候你們說已經送到行政院去審查但什麼時候報告才會出來才能讓我們知道行政院的方案 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].start |
12375.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].end |
12394.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].text |
就我理解我跟院長有討論他就說答案就說這個應該是已經他會盡快的把它核定下來盡快是多快呢因為大家一定要盡快盡快你們有時候很快那一個月那如果你說三個月或五個月或七個月都盡快我要告訴部長的是說你們去年就已經在講說要加薪的這件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].start |
12399.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].end |
12411.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].text |
那已經一年了你還要告訴我盡快的話那你應該要告訴我比較具體的時間點因為很多國軍弟兄都在等這件事應該是這幾個禮拜就會合理這幾個禮拜就會合定了這幾個禮拜合定之後那如果說這個金額上面跟這個我們國軍想像的不一樣的話那我想我們還是會繼續提出這個相關的修法 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].start |
12425.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].end |
12438.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].text |
跟委員報告了我們現在著重的就是說基層官兵的部分因為大家都著重在所以我們這個戰鬥部隊的加級因為都是連級以下的那我請問一下戰鬥部隊的加級會翻倍嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].start |
12439.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].end |
12459.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].text |
戰鬥部隊家族我們有一定的調整那我想因為現在行政會不會翻倍因為這個我還蠻建議的委員要體諒一下我想在行政合定之前你不方便你不方便說我不適應去幫行政院去那沒有關係我們來第二個題目我知道我知道你的困難我也不打算要逼迫你 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].start |
12459.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].end |
12479.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].text |
我們來問下一個問題就是呢當時我們在海昆號這個測試的時候博港測試HAT114年的3月19日也就是這個現在那呢在不到兩週的時間4月份就要到了去年11月月底的時候我們在委員會韓居參謀長告訴我們預計4月1號開始做海上測試那請問4月1號要做海上測試了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].start |
12486.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].end |
12512.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].text |
報委員是這樣時間點是應該在去年的11月25在委員會期間那我們當初講法從4月1號開始會進入SAT這個階段對那有嗎那這個階段是到9月30號不是嘛4月1號開始做海上測試那是當時你們給我們的承諾我今天要問的是兩個禮拜以後就是4月1號了我們會不會如期的在4月1號開始做海上測試 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].start |
12513.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].end |
12531.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].text |
跟委員報告我這邊國防部的立場還是以安全為重所以我每個禮拜聽取他們的報告現在相關HAT的缺改的部分他們還在進行當中我要確保這些缺改的部分我們希望是在4月那不一定要搶在4月1號 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].start |
12533.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].end |
12559.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].text |
因為主要是當時我們問的時候你們就講就是4月1號我有一直在跟他們確認說有沒有承諾說4月1號但是我還是一句話要給我一個安全的確保當然我們都希望能夠安全那我想請問目前博港測試HAT進度到百分之幾了目前進度我今天兩個問號嘛進度到百分之幾我們缺失目前有幾項 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].start |
12561.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].end |
12582.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].text |
我想這個相關的實際的這個內容的這個部分因為每次報告都是列入機敏的事項我不認為應該在這個地方可以公開的來說明好沒有問題但那我想要請問的是你們要把這個進度完成到百分之百以及缺失要玩到百分之百那你們預計需要多少的時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].start |
12584.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].end |
12595.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].text |
我們還是規劃在四月份按照我現在的聽取他們的報告還是規劃在四月份會進入海上測試所以四月三十號以前海上測試會開始我可以這麼說嗎我現在所要求他們的應該是這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].start |
12600.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].end |
12619.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].text |
好那我們到時候再來看那再來我們可以看就是說四月到九月海策那如果說假設你們後續有在變更的話那我想應該要跟人民再說明一下最後有一個題目是跟我們官兵休假權益有關的就是我們可以看一下這個請假的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].start |
12620.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].end |
12629.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].text |
工訓售價的部分呢你可以看到公務人員的有寫的很明確的法令就是公務人員如果呢他是去進修的話呢那他就是給予工價非常清楚好然後呢如果是這個勞動 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].start |
12637.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].end |
12655.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].text |
如果是这个劳动相关的话呢那其实只要雇主跟这个员工他们有了解之后呢就是也可以给予相关的工资就是呢这是在劳动请假规则的第八条那但是呢我们会看到国均这个部分我们看国均呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].start |
12656.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].end |
12675.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].text |
國軍的軍事官請假規則裡面的第三條第一款第一項裡面寫到軍官士官不論開缺與否因受訓疾病休養或住院期間於次年度的未落假何幾時依第一款所定日數比例則算扣除之不令補休 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].start |
12676.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].end |
12695.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].text |
那舉例來說如果我現在呢有三個月時間在受訓的話我明年的未落假就需要扣掉四分之一所以部長您過去是職業律師我們可以看到勞工也好公務人員也好他們都有相關的這個規定那我想雖然軍人是一個特殊的行業可是我們也不宜讓大家太過於操勞因為為什麼像我們過去像上個會期我們增加了12倍的這個薪資輔導嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].start |
12703.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].end |
12731.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].text |
還有過去半一年一年來說自槍的人的數量非常多因為他們壓力很大所以我想要問的是說這個我們勞工身份跟公務人員的身份他都是去在做相關的受訓的時候甚至疾病兩者住院的時候那他是不是還要按照這個目前的請假規則裡面去折抵扣除他的未老假你覺得這樣是合理嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].start |
12732.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].end |
12742.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].text |
委員這個部分我現在下去以後了解一下,或者是要先說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].start |
12743.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].end |
12765.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].text |
委員好 我跟委員說明一下就是說我們現在所有未到假的這個相關的規定都是看你服役多少年之後你有多少天的未到假那每年我們都會讓這些未到假的請休假讓他請完 因為這個要領不休假獎金或者是相關他的休假權益我們都會鼓勵所有官兵都能夠把他休完 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].start |
12765.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].end |
12793.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].text |
不是嘛未落假等於說是我們一般人講的這個特休假嘛那只有國軍在扣假公務人員或勞工都沒有在扣假你懂我意思嗎所以你希望他請完但我們講的根本就不是你剛回答的這個問題啊我們講的是上面寫得很清楚嘛如果受訓的期間的話他要比例薪資扣除之然後不吝補休嘛這一條對於我們的官兵來說其實我覺得非常不公平啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].start |
12794.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].end |
12812.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].text |
那公教人員他們都可以勞工都可以就我們軍人不行所以我希望在照顧軍人的同時是不是在這個項目上面我們可以去修正讓他們說在受訓之後你不要不是說要提供他更多的假期喔而是按比例你不要去扣除他的未落假 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].start |
12813.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].end |
12832.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].text |
報告委員現在目前的規定是這個樣子那後續我們會按照委員的意見來參考看怎麼來做一個修訂好那我們基本上我們今天有提我們今天還沒有提臨時提案我們下一次會做臨時提案希望你們可以回去先想一想因為公務人員跟勞工都沒有這樣子的情況 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].start |
12833.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].end |
12849.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].text |
那只有我們辛苦的軍人因為受訓要被扣未落假等於是扣他的特休我覺得這是非常不合理的那所以我們幫所有的基層軍人請命希望國防部能夠同意好嗎好我回去了解一下這些相關的規定好謝謝好謝謝許委員接下來請鄭正前委員上台質詢鄭正前鄭正前鄭正前委員不在接下來請李坤成委員上台質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].start |
12875.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].end |
12877.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].text |
謝謝主席我們請顧部長請部長 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].start |
12884.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].end |
12902.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].text |
是 李文豪來 部長好 辛苦了這個本席請教一下在這個今年的1月12號國安局有公布一個共諜案滲透手法分析然後其中有提到就是說這一個共諜案起訴的人數明顯的上升在2021年是16人到2024年已經到了64人這個成長了4倍 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].start |
12906.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].end |
12918.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].text |
然後呢 這個國安局也提到說 這個滲透的目標呢 這個包含軍事單位 政府機關 民間協會但是呢 這個現役軍人呢 去年啦 這個現役軍人 這個遭起訴的呢 有28人然後那個退役的軍人呢 遭起訴有15人 總共占這個共諜案起訴的43% |
| transcript.whisperx[466].start |
12927.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].end |
12949.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].text |
所以這個現役退役的軍人是中共對台滲透的主要的鎖定對象我不曉得部長有沒有看過國安局的這份報告是 有所以他也透過了五大滲透管道還有四大守法那主要都是針對現役或是退役的軍人比如說勾結黑幫 發展武裝內應 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].start |
12954.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].end |
12969.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].text |
開設地下錢莊引誘投共利誘宮廟吸引軍人刺密成立統戰的組織動員借血還有透過網路勾連部件組織等等那所以呢也因為這樣子所以賴總統這個也 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].start |
12971.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].end |
12995.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].text |
因應的共諜或是因應中國境外的敵對勢力影響越來越嚴重所以有一個17項的國安因應策略其中跟國防部比較有相關的應該就是說要恢復軍事審判的制度未來的先移軍人如果是觸犯陸海空軍刑法的軍事犯罪案例交由軍事法院來審判 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].start |
12997.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].end |
13001.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].text |
那這個其實大家都都有在問我今天早上有在聽 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].start |
13002.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].end |
13029.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].text |
但是呢 這個總統提出來這個在現在如果是現役軍人他如果是犯了軍事的這一個案例之後呢是由這個軍事法庭來審判那有些人也有提出有不同的意見跟看法這個是說因為我們現在的這一個不管是泄密或是共諜案都是很多的這個常態都是軍民共犯 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].start |
13030.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].end |
13044.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].text |
有軍人也有民間的 民間的有可能是退役沒多久的先吸收剛退役的軍人 再用他的人脈來滲透現役的軍人洩密叛國像雄三飛彈就是複製這種模式 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].start |
13051.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].end |
13075.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].text |
那所以呢現在大家的問題在於說呢這個軍民共犯的情況呢那未來如果這個軍事審判就是說那現役軍人當然就是軍事審判那如果按照憲法規定不受軍事審判的非役軍人呢就由普通的法院來審判那這種情況之下呢就會有發生說這個如果是同一個案件身份不一樣有的是現役軍人有的是這個平民或是剛退役的 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].start |
13079.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].end |
13105.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].text |
那或是說呢發生案件的時間呢有可能是在他當軍人的時候但是呢這個被追溯的時候有可能是在他已經不是軍人了會遇到這種情況所以外界也有聲音說是不是這個除了這個總統他所提到說這個軍事的這一個審判法庭之外在我們的普通法院也設立這個國安的軍事專業法庭那我請教一下部長的意見我想 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].start |
13110.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].end |
13125.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].text |
應該兩個,第一個就是說我們重新打造的軍事審判,重點是在於為這個因為現在還是二元化,所以平戰轉換,所以在平時要建構一個新的軍事審判體系,暫時才能夠有一定的量能 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].start |
13125.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].end |
13153.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].text |
那至於在軍事審判之外要不要搭配這個軍法官參審有一個這個國安法庭的一個設計我覺得這個要跟司法院做進行的要一個溝通也就是說如果是要裁掉現在按照國安國家安全法第十九條規定第十九條的規定就是說這個各級的這個法院法官辦理案件的時候呢就要設這個就可以設國安軍事專研法庭啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].start |
13154.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].end |
13174.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].text |
他現在就我的了解他是專股然後兼辦他並沒有設置一個專者的一個專業法庭讓部長看一下這是這個司法院所提供的資料他說現在這個國安軍是專業法庭除了有你剛才這個部長講的這個專股之外 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].start |
13175.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].end |
13197.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].text |
也有專業的法庭這當然是司法院提供的資料 部長知不知道這份資料對 我知道就是說因為它有這樣子的要求但是現在實際的實現的狀況當然就是我早上已經有說過了因為我們早年在從事這些推動這些專業法庭的時候都會發現事實上有各種各樣的專業法庭有什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].start |
13200.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].end |
13218.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].text |
金融專業法庭各種專業法庭事實上這樣的一個專業法庭它會隨著人員的調動事實上這個專業法庭的專業性還是有一些質疑不過剛剛委員提到的就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].start |
13220.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].end |
13241.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].text |
除了用軍事審判之外那另外還有一種設計是說他如果違反國安法的相關案件那涉及到退役跟現役軍人或者是其他的民人的時候那是不是在這個國安法庭裡面由交由這個法院來審判這一件事情而且他有可能是交由高等的法院來審判 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].start |
13242.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].end |
13264.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].text |
這一件事情我現在沒有辦法完全的排除但是我們軍事審判的這個制度還是要重新打造那有沒有另外有一個這樣的一個設計的可能性我們要跟史蘭做一個溝通就是說當然這個軍事的審判法庭那現在要重新打造那另外就是說我剛才所提到就是說在浦東法院 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].start |
13265.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].end |
13282.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].text |
也是一個這個專業的國安的法庭是不是能夠避免我剛所提到的就是說因為現在這個不管是共諜案、泄密案等等之類的它違反的有可能是違反國安法違反國安無法違反這個反滲透法那就是由這個國安專業法庭它現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].start |
13283.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].end |
13299.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].text |
架構上是會有我稍微跟委員解釋一下就是說他涉犯國安法那如果他也同時因為他通常他一旦涉及國安法他同時應該也會涉及陸海公園起碼第二篇的洩密這個等等的部分那 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].start |
13299.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].end |
13314.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].text |
理論上來講犯罪一部是屬於亂供應刑法他就要做軍事審判那但是如果這個部分跟涉法人員協商如果他有一個共犯的概念就是說這個共犯包括了現役軍人包括退役軍人等等這些共犯的部分要不要交給一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].start |
13315.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].end |
13340.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].text |
他設了一個軍事專業法庭而這個軍事專業法庭確實是也讓我們的人可以進入一起的話這個部分的設計可能我已經看到有相關的學者提出這個概念就是參審制的概念那我們必須要跟他一起來討論也就是說這樣子的一個參審是比較接近德國制的一種參審而不是一種國民參審 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].start |
13341.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].end |
13357.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].text |
那如果說不是國民參審的話那而是一種專業參審的話那這一個軍法官要不要具有軍法官的資格這個部分都還要跟史懷恩做一個協商這個其實是蠻技術有蠻專業性的這個部分還要跟史懷恩做一個協商 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].start |
13358.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].end |
13382.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].text |
這個提供這個部長做參考主席我再問最後一個問題一分鐘就好了這個按照國防部所提供這個四年期國防總檢討有提到就是說國防預算要爭取到這個GDP的3%以上的目標那請問一下現在是多少我們現在國防預算佔GDP多少大概2.45%左右2.45%對那如果要達3%大概要增加多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].start |
13383.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].end |
13392.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].text |
一千多億那這個總統他有提到就是說是不是用這個編列特別預算的方式然後讓國防預算能夠達到3% |
| transcript.whisperx[488].start |
13397.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].end |
13414.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].text |
因為我們避免都編在年度預算的話會排擠其他各部會的預算的情況之下編列特別預算是一個方式是一個比較可行的方式但是特別預算的一個編列一定要有一個條例要經過大院同意 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].start |
13415.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].end |
13436.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].text |
所以我們現在的問題是在於是說我們要屬於立即應該可以快速獲得的這個部分我們才能夠編列入特別預算所以是哪些項目是我們現在可以立即快速獲得的這個部分然後合乎我們的防衛作戰的實際需要這個部分我們正在審慎的這個研議當中 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].start |
13440.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].end |
13460.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].text |
那部長有來爭取說那這是因為這個稅收高於預期我增加這五千多億扣掉地方有三千多億有沒有來爭取在其中的一千億來作為這個特別預算我想這個不是國防部應該要主責的事項這是主計長或者是行政院的權責你說國防部有沒有爭取我當然最後是由行政院來決定有沒有來爭取 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].start |
13461.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].end |
13476.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].text |
我們爭取的是說按照總統的政策指示到達3%這個目標如何達成那裁員的來源這個要有行政院他來主責好 先問到這邊好了謝謝主席 謝謝部長謝謝李委員接下來請邱志偉委員上台質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].start |
13503.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].end |
13514.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].text |
謝謝主席 呃 是不是有請 呃 這個 國防部 顧部長呃 全民防衛動員署 李署長 軍醫局 馮副局長何警署長跟局長 謝謝是 邱委員吼欸 部長 先請教那個岡山吶 岡山醫院 國際岡山醫院的長照大樓這你可能比較不瞭解 我先請教馮副局長這個 岡山醫院長照大樓預算有沒有問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].start |
13533.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].end |
13557.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].text |
跟委員報告 因為一些委員的關心因為這個部分的話分為 經費分為兩個部分有沒有問題啦沒有問題恭喜會不會延宕不會延宕 謝謝委員的支持與協助我的問題完了 請回座這個全面防衛動員署那關於這個 我在總諮詢有提到 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].start |
13558.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].end |
13586.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].text |
這個所謂慈福臨寢跟大西臨寢臨寢的定義是什麼帝王之墓怎麼把一個獨裁者變成一個帝王帝王之墓它的管理規則是這個開放臨寢業齡管理須知這部分不是法律未解它是一個行政命令是一個須知而已行政部門要改就馬上可以改 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].start |
13587.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].end |
13605.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].text |
你看現在這個獨裁者的這個領請帝王之墓還有我們國軍每天在那邊看守還有禮賓交接儀式這個你們可以做的我總之可能沒有那麼多時間這個是不是部長你來表示一下態度 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].start |
13608.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].end |
13630.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].text |
我想這個應該要依照行政院的政策來行政院什麼政策 行政院有政策嗎行政院應該有交代文化部有相關的這些只是你們發布的行政命令是全董署發布行政命令你們願不願意去調整 去思考怎麼去調整 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].start |
13631.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].end |
13648.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].text |
我想我們這個部分是包括民生是不是改過包括是部署要 非得要部署禮賓這你們可有從須知己裡面去改啊你們有沒有要改而已這不涉及法律的修正 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].start |
13649.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].end |
13669.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].text |
我們暫時目前就這個部分是基於這一個算是它還是算是一個營區的安全維護我們目前沒有這個相關的規劃所謂帝王之墓 督差者的墓有沒有安全疑慮哪來的安全疑慮有人會盜墓嗎我不覺得有任何這個有安全上的疑慮 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].start |
13679.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].end |
13687.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].text |
這個你們應該去思考這個問題特別名稱領請帝王之木你把獨裁者視為一個帝王這個我不曉得為什麼沒有辦法回答這個部長因為我時間一分一秒就過去了我現在只能說我們暫時目前沒有這樣的一個規劃為什麼為什麼暫時沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].start |
13708.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].end |
13728.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].text |
那暫時的狀態 暫時定義是多久一個月 兩個月 三個月 還是一年委員的意見我們來參考 我們來相關研議那我們也跟文化部來進行是不是一個月之內可以把你們的想法用一個書面報告好不好 一個月之內這不是新問題 這是老問題啦 部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].start |
13734.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].end |
13755.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].text |
你是一個人權鬥士啊你曾經是一個轉型正義的律師啊這個應該你特別有感才對啊我們再來跟文化部來進行協調我會一直質詢我會一直質詢但不能像現在都沒有話說來 權重署來 署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].start |
13759.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].end |
13765.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].text |
國軍的送訓制度我們這個要花很多的錢把國軍送訓每年一億四年一位出國去送訓的軍官大概要花一千萬左右 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].start |
13787.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].end |
13813.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].text |
但是他從他的服役年次來看他比這個國軍平均服役年金少了將近四年那他的職業會發生這個一些問題所以你的送訓制度沒有辦法發揮他原本的功能你送訓就是回來有更多的好的人才新的思維來提振國軍的整體綜合能力嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].start |
13814.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].end |
13839.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].text |
那這個部分 這個部長您的看法是我們受這個如果是出國念這個外比如說西點 您跟這裡提到西點軍校或其他的這個軍校的這個部分我們現在應該還是要盡量讓他的這個金管能夠完成所以我們就把它會按照他的這個專長我們會 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].start |
13842.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].end |
13850.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].text |
讓他從事這個部隊的食物的訓練現行的送訓制度有沒有需要做改革或者調整呢送訓的制度 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].start |
13852.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].end |
13873.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].text |
我覺得應該是他們回來之後我們讓他進行相關的一個歷練不要妨礙他的職業的發展很多從事外事或者是翻譯工作現在要改變這些做法因為他一直在從事這些翻譯外事的工作他沒有一個部隊的一個歷練他的金管就沒辦法完整 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].start |
13876.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].end |
13892.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].text |
接下來的問題是跟海軍參謀長有來威海計畫的相關預算海軍參謀長非常認真努力把相關預算最快的速度籌編這部分當然也要經過行政院 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].start |
13893.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].end |
13912.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].text |
那我希望說能夠最快的速度能夠編入這個明年度的預算所以是不是市政府也很關心這我的選區這個國家重大的這個國防機制我們都全力支持但是也不能說影響到這個漁民的生計所以這個部分我想請教一下參謀長這個明年納入預算有沒有問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].start |
13919.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].end |
13938.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].text |
這個部分因為他們一直有來跟我報告我們現在應該是在這個會在應該是八月底前核定那就納入明年的預算編列所以這點不會跳票了所以會今年的年底就納入預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].start |
13940.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].end |
13942.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].text |
我們現在的規劃是如此軍事審判的暫時定義要怎麼去做調整軍事審判的暫時定義現在現行第七條本法稱暫時者 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].start |
13965.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].end |
13980.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].text |
為抵禦青年兒幼總統一憲法宣告作戰之期間那這個牽涉到共諜案的複雜樣態包括這個灰色地帶目前要怎麼樣針對這第七條暫時定義做調整部裡面有沒有看法 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].start |
13981.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].end |
14008.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].text |
我個人的看法是如此就是說我們現在的防衛作戰已經不需要沒有跟戒嚴放在一起這個要特別說明那我們現在所有相關的法制從憲法 針對台灣 到國防法 到權動法都是以總統發布緊急命令也就是說 碰到緊急狀況發布緊急命令來作為我們這個動員的需要所以我們應該是以緊急命令發布作為一個認定這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].start |
14010.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].end |
14030.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].text |
所以他的定義就是要做調整對那第七條就要修法我想應該要規劃要來做一個調整那修法的版本什麼時候會提出來我想這一次連同這一個部分我們會一併來做一個調整這樣好 謝謝部長 謝謝各位同仁大家辛苦了好 謝謝昭偉 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].start |
14032.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].end |
14041.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].text |
好 謝謝邱委員 謝謝部長那接下來我們有請蔡易瑜委員上台質詢喔 看錯了 看錯了 不好意思蘇清泉委員上台質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].start |
14042.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].end |
14063.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].text |
蘇清泉委員蘇清泉委員蘇清泉蘇清泉委員不在接下來有請高津素美委員上台質詢高津素美高津素美高津素美委員不在接下來請徐欣盈委員上台質詢徐欣盈委員徐欣盈委員徐欣盈委員不在接下來有請蔡易委員上台質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].start |
14070.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].end |
14084.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].text |
謝謝主席那我們是有請部長以及我們軍備局局長以及我們國家中山科學研究院的副院長有請局長副院長好 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].start |
14087.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].end |
14114.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].text |
部長我們知道從烏俄戰爭的借鑒我們知道無人機大概就是未來如果真的有發生戰事的時候無人機幾乎是整個在戰線中會變得越來越重要所以我們在思考無人機的產業的時候就是說我們國軍怎麼佈建無人機的時候我覺得還有一塊是很重要的就是怎麼反制無人機 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].start |
14116.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].end |
14142.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].text |
對無人機的一個反制所以這個反制可能就包括要徵收你要找無人機來第二個就是說徵收到了你要怎麼把無人機就是要怎麼去防止它再繼續接近有軟煞跟硬煞對 軟煞跟硬煞對 所以要防止無人機但是無人機我們知道事實上還是有很多科技他們也都是在進步所以就是說無人機為了防止說我們之前說要用電波 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].start |
14145.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].end |
14162.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].text |
用更強的這個頻率把無人機讓它失去控制讓它失去了這個遠端的控制但是他們也發展出我用光纖的我現在無人機我只能駕一條船 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].start |
14164.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].end |
14180.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].text |
就是說他也有用這種,也有說用AI他直接去了,他就變任務型的無人機,他自己辨別所以我們在做反制無人機的時候,是不是也要有相對應針對這一些不同的,然後我們要有不同的一些反制的作為 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].start |
14181.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].end |
14199.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].text |
跟委員報告,我大概大致上說明一下,詳細部分他們可以再做細部的說明大概這樣就是說,無人機的反制,剛剛已經講了,混成軟煞跟硬煞那無人機呢,它又有各型的無人機,有的無人機是比較昂貴的無人機,比如說 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].start |
14200.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].end |
14226.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].text |
像美國這種MQ-9B這種一架它就要一億多美金這樣的穩無人機也有一種是非常小型的無人機那你這種不同的無人機的應對它的反制你要有不同的思維我比如舉個例子伊朗它發射那個Shahid這樣子一個低成本的無人機那以色列為了要反制它那發揮了這個它的鐵穹系統可是它的 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].start |
14226.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].end |
14251.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].text |
它的成本可能高過於它這個狹黑的整個發射過來的十倍那你這樣子 你說你用一個高的一個飛濫的防禦系統去應對它的低價的這個無人機那這個就是我們要思考在我們這個面對國土防衛作戰的時候我們如何來去思考 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].start |
14252.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].end |
14272.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].text |
共軍他可能運用無人機的作戰模式那我們要如何用一個有效的方式來進行這個無人機的反制我們不可能拿一個造價可能昂貴的比如說隨便講說雄三雄二去應對他的那個一二三型的無人機那這樣的話那我們一下飛彈就被他消耗光了 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].start |
14273.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].end |
14288.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].text |
所以這個的時候會有很多這種對於無人機的反制它不斷地 現在無人機也不斷地在進步那反制無人機的技術也不斷地在進步這個包括了包括甚至已經講到雷射的可能性 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].start |
14289.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].end |
14312.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].text |
還有用低成本的這種類似用無人機反制無人機的這種可能性那也有可能當然運用一些軟砂的手段來進行干擾這些我想都是在我們應該要研討的範圍之內那這一塊的部分呢這個是大家正在大家都在加強啦所以我延續你剛才講的事實上 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].start |
14315.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].end |
14332.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].text |
我要強調的就是這個重點就是說我們在反制無人機我們第一個就是我們的反制成本要下降反制成本要下降的話可能就是說如果剛剛講到的用小型無人機來做反制那我們就要有更多的小型無人機 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].start |
14333.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].end |
14345.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].text |
我們必須要有一個一定的數量就是說對方如果用這個群峰的無人機來的時候我們是不是有更多小型無人機低成本的然後可以去做數量上然後去阻擋我們的無人機自己去阻擋 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].start |
14349.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].end |
14374.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].text |
所以我的意思是說那這些都是需要產業的投入所以我們是不是在軍備局我們應該要跟很多開始一些無人機的一個廠商然後請他們去投入類似這樣反制無人機然後把數量衝出來然後我們要有一定的數量勒事實上這些廠商就是需要我們國防部要去做他們背後的一個支撐那是不是這部分要請部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].start |
14377.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].end |
14404.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].text |
對跟委員報告我想中科院也好或者軍備局也好那我們現在最主要跟坦白講也跟美方的技術合作也好我們目標都是在於做不管是無人機或者反制無人機這個部分我們都要想辦法如果您講的用無人機反制無人機那或者無人機本身它也有可能各種各款的無人機有的是低成本的有的比較高成本 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].start |
14405.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].end |
14433.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].text |
有的是距離比較短的有的是打反裝甲的有的是打箭的那這些相關的這些部分我們都要主要主要主要要建立一個國防自主的產能因為要建構一個國防自主產能在一旦有戰時的時候我們才有辦法因為無人機的消耗量是相當大在烏克戰爭就可以看得出來所以烏克蘭已經建立了一個自存量能它每個月要生產的架數是幾萬架以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].start |
14434.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].end |
14461.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].text |
所以我們也要建立這樣的產能這是我們最重要的一個核心那這個部分要跟這個民間的力量做結合所以這個部分是軍民要做整合那中科院也現在要釋出這些相關他已經發展出來的一些這些關鍵性的技術那他把它釋出讓民間可以來生產 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].start |
14463.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].end |
14486.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].text |
這樣子的一個自主能量產生透過我們軍方本來研發的能量再加上民間他們創新的能量一起做結合這樣子的無人機的自主產能才能夠建構出來部長所以現在事實上我要強調就是產量的問題就是說如果我們認為說一個技術是可以成熟可以量產事實上我們現在整個民間他們投入無人機的研發他們就是卡在 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].start |
14487.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].end |
14492.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].text |
這個我也跟委員特別報告一下這個就是涉及到說一方面是我們軍方的採購的量能有一定的極限那我們可能也要因為無人機發展也是迭代發展所以我們要細水長流剛剛中委員也要細水長流 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].start |
14508.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].end |
14527.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].text |
那另外當然就是說其他各部會的無人機的運用也要能夠發展出來那我們現在已經請中宣做一個軍民共用的一個共版的一個規格那只要這些民用的無人機一旦到了戰時我們再改裝加上一些軟體然後加上一些火攻的 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].start |
14528.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].end |
14557.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].text |
這部分我們就可以成為一個軍用的這是第二個 第三個就是我們要打入國際的供應鏈我想這個部分美方也特別的重視也就是說美方要建構是一個去紅化的供應鏈那去紅化之後就要結合各個國家的一個優勢然後把將這個優勢發揮那我們如果能夠打入這個國際供應鏈規模才能夠起的來我們不一定要造整機可是我們如果有一些關鍵的技術我們把這些關鍵的技術跟另外的國家 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].start |
14557.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].end |
14586.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].text |
做結合那這樣的話我們這些關鍵品組件就有一定的在國際供應量就有一定的一個規模量那這個公司就願意去投入然後又願意更研發然後再更精進所以這些都已經是在進行事當中部長這個環環相扣啦對對對事實上現在很多國家都已經過來都來進行這些無人機跟反制無人機的這些大家共同來合作好 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].start |
14587.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].end |
14590.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].text |
那就 那國防部這邊就再繼續努力好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].start |
14592.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].end |
14619.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].text |
謝謝蔡委員 謝謝部長那已登記的質詢委員除不在場外均已發言完畢報告及詢答結束那本日會議有林益君委員蘇清泉委員跟王洪威委員提出書面質詢請列入紀錄並刊登公報並請相關機關已書面於兩週內答覆那本日委員口頭質詢未及答覆部分或要求補充資料者也請相關單位再以書面提供本日會議到此結束 散會 |