| IVOD_ID |
16530 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16530 |
| 日期 |
2025-03-19 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-15-4 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期內政委員會第4次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
4 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
15 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
內政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期內政委員會第4次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2025-03-19T08:31:46+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-03-19T11:08:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
02:36:14 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/eeffa975d6a1e3ea62ae2672450bbbb20cc1067dc387cc1f7a524d1b3d409a1ab033a6703662132f5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-03-19T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期內政委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查委員賴瑞隆等16人擬具「災害防救法第三條及第十九條條文修正草案」案。二、審查委員謝衣鳯等17人擬具「災害防救法第三條條文修正草案」案。三、審查委員謝衣鳯等16人擬具「災害防救法第四十八條條文修正草案」案。四、審查委員丁學忠等16人擬具「災害防救法第二十二條條文修正草案」案。） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:31:46 - 11:08:00 |
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好,請主任秘書報告出席人數報告委員會出席委員13人,已足法定人數好,那我們現在開會進行報告事項,請宣讀上次會議議事錄 |
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1746.291 |
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1761.79 |
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立法院第11届第三会期内政委员会第三次全体委员会议议事录时间114年3月17日星期一上午9时2分至14时31分地点红楼202会议室出席委员苏巧慧委员等14人列席委员洪孟凯委员等20人 |
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1762.771 |
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1787.502 |
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列席官員 內政部部長劉世芳暨相關人員原住民組委員會主任委員曾志勇暨相關人員勞動部政務次長李建宏暨相關人員行政院人事行政總處培訓考用處處長李花書交通部人事處專門委員馮淑珍主席 劉昭暨委員許庭報告事項 宣讀上次會議議事錄決定 確定 討論事項審查紀念日及節日實施條例草案暨二十案 |
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1788.722 |
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1814.694 |
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討論事項合併詢答委員洪孟楷等22人質詢由內政部部長劉世芳勞動部政務次長李建宏原住民組委員會主任委員曾志勇交通部人事處專門委員馮淑珍行政院人事行政總處培訓考用處處長李花書答覆說明登記發言委員除不在場者外其餘均與發言完畢詢答結束委員翁曉琳所提書面質詢列入記錄刊登公報書面質詢及未及答覆部分請相關機關於一週內另以書面答覆並複製本會 |
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1818.415 |
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1827.743 |
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決議以上個案均令定期繼續審查條文已宣讀宣讀完畢因為現在不足三我們等一下再確定意思入那我們繼續進行討論事項請宣讀 |
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1831.55 |
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1831.67 |
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宣讀完畢 |
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1856.584 |
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1871.423 |
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好本日議程所列討論事項我們合併詢答現在介紹在場委員及列席官員然後我們丁薛忠委員然後馬事員次長我們消防署署長 |
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1874.346 |
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1897.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
我們農業部的副司長韓副司長我們環境部化學物質管理處的副署長陳淑玲我們河安委員會的主任秘書王崇德我們經濟部產業園區管理局的副局長曾促芬我們法務部參事廖江憲張志榮委員來了 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
1906.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
1924.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
那我們先確定議事錄我們上次會議議事錄有錯誤或遺漏沒有好謝謝好議事錄確定了好來那我們現在請提案委員說明提案要旨我們請丁薛忠委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
1934.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
1938.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
感謝主席今天就災害方舊法第22條修正草案做提案說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
1943.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
1965.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
依据联通部所定义灾防教育是要事前充分准备提高大家的认识以减少灾害的损害但是发现到传统灾害防救的教育知识都是以过去地震与台风等单一灾害来规划因应 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
1966.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
1973.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
可是現在全球的天災都已複合型成為常態過去之事已經已有孤獨 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
1975.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
2002.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
以国外案例来看日本311地震带来各种海啸等后续灾害非常严重其他国家最多的森林野火其灾害的范围和形态不同过去造成灾损扩大难以控制再看现在台湾情形这几年最严重是传统台风都灌水的强雨 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
2002.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2030.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
引发大型水患等各种损害显然本条例所定平时灾害防救教育已有平日及时增强之必要但却发现作为第一线防灾的地方政府经常在多样形态复合灾情下受限平日人力资源与专业知识不足造成灾害的救治 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
2032.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2052.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
就之困難與損害故修訂法第22條建立中央主管機關應以平日強化人力資源與專業知識提供給各地政府強化災防及此更新以利更多災害防救資準會謝謝好好謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2061.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2065.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
好那我們現在請內政部馬政務次長試圓報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2080.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2091.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
主席還有各位委員女士先生大家早安首先感謝各位委員對內政部業務的關注與指導今天貴委員會召開會議審查 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2094.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2114.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
審議災害防救法 簡稱災防法的相關委員提案總共計四案本部應邀前來報告備詢對於委員關心本部業管議題表示敬佩與感謝災害防法自89年7月19日公布施行之後目前已經經歷了9次修正在111年6月15日公布了全條文66條的修正案 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2121.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2149.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
那僅就目前委員提案的內容將本部的意見依序說明如下一災防法第三條修正草案賴委員瑞榮等16人及謝委員依奉等17人提案建議修正中央災害防救業務主管機關名稱如農業部環境部及核能安全委員會部分本部認同建議可推動 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2151.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2174.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
2.災防法第19條修正草案部分賴委員瑞榮等16人提案建議增訂工業管線災害防救業務計畫送大院備查及工業管線之運作安全事項應以專法定之等部分由於考量災防法律定之22種災害 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2177.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2198.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
經行政院專案災害防救匯報審議之後已公布在網站上供政府機關及民眾查閱經濟部也將工業管線之運作安全維護管理監督以及災害防救等事項納入工業管線災害防救業務計畫並具執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2202.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2228.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
是否另定專法應釋設中央災害防救業務主管機關經濟部全責內政部尊重經濟部的意見3.災防法第22條修正草案丁委員、學中等16人提案建議增訂災害防救法第22條應在災害防救教育部分平時強化專業知識培養 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2230.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2252.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
本部感謝委員提案 竟表同意四 災防法第48條修正草案謝委員依奉等16人提案建議修正農業部名稱純屬機關名稱之修正本部建議可推動以上報告敬請各位委員女士先生予以指教 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2254.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2278.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
好 謝謝其他單位的報告請委員自行參閱並刊登公報那我們現在要進行詢答委員詢答前 原列座以下幾點宣告本會委員發言時間5分鐘 必要時得延長2分鐘非本會委員發言時間5分鐘 上午10點30分截止發言登記 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2279.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2294.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
今天因為要處理法案本次會議就不處理臨時提案請問各位有沒有意見沒有好謝謝就只剩你那我們現在先休息三分鐘好了好不好好 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2300.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2303.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
記者要照片,所以我可以幫你照一張都可以啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2324.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2334.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
謝謝不客氣啊,再給你再給我再給我謝謝不用不用不用好,OK,OK那我就選兩袋給你好,那選兩袋給我拿著 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2355.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2355.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
嗯 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2379.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2382.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
這裏有個大廈,有個大廈 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2387.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2397.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
好難喔 啊 這是新進的不好意思 不好意思 來來來不好意思 哇 我剛來不好意思 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2420.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2421.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
我好意思 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2446.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2467.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2479.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2489.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
謝謝收看,下次見! |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2510.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2516.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
還沒開始開會好我們現在開始開會我們現在進行詢問請登記地位的蘇巧慧委員發言好謝謝主席不好意思那我們請馬次長好請馬次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2540.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2564.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
好 市長好那我們今天其實要處理的這個是災害防救法那我是認為啦其實法令在怎麼完備它其實還是有非常多的執行細節需要來討論那比如說我自己啊我們在這個新北市當中其實就有很多的地方它就是有設有這種在勘測災害的這種雷達像我們上次有去看的這個是五分山的雷達站 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2565.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2580.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
光是一個雷達站呢你需要考慮到的就是有氣象的部分嘛然後還有其他種種的資訊甚至是連去這個地方的交通等等都需要去討論那我想知道就是其實在法令之外您能不能夠借用這個這個備詢的時間喔告訴我們一下說 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2584.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2597.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
法令如何來整備跨部會的協助又或者是在法令之餘你們已經又做了什麼樣的精進作為讓我們可以更知道說其實現在政府對於災害防救已經到什麼樣的程度 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2598.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2617.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
好謝謝委員我想因為我們現在的災防法的架構是把災害類別分給部會那但是我們有很多的災害必須是由目的事業主管機關來合作比如說剛剛委員提到像氣象站氣象站是由交通部來負責 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2618.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2635.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
氣象的資訊在分享到各個部會尤其是經濟部有關於降雨、水利的部分還有交通部有關於公路的通阻的部分在平時事實上我們有建構EMIC的資訊系統在做情資分享 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2635.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2653.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
那如果是在應變中心開設的期間的話各部會的同仁都會到應變中心來做報告所以這個部分的資訊分享目前跟委員報告在國內我們算是國際上很有效率而且在執行這個所謂的災害情勢分享上面很有 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2654.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2672.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
成果那現在比較需要強化的部分主要就是在目的事業主管機關對於特定災害的防護那必須要再去做大幅度的一個精進比如說我們最近在關注海嘯的問題我想我也應該也有在媒體上看到 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2672.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2687.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
所以沿海所有的設施的主管機關應該要針對海嘯來對這個部分去做一些準備跟防護那雖然海嘯目前在災防法的主管機關是由內政部 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2688.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2708.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
來做主導但是內政部在海邊的設施大概只有警消的部分的設施那牽涉到漁港牽涉到海巡牽涉到其他單位這可能就要來通力合作好那我完全了解啦也藉著這個次長你現在的回答讓更多人可以理解說我們光是一個氣象站這樣子的一個維運 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2709.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2723.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
其實就牽涉到了非常多的面向那我是認為從我現在能夠得到的資料來看的話其實我們目前對他的維護主要是還是在這個資訊的部分多著重於對於這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2725.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2731.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
氣象觀測網的妥善維護多著重於雷達本身和監測資料的品質通訊軟體的暢通這個部分就是您剛剛說的部分那我現在想要強調的部分其實就是我自己在日常的這種會刊經驗當中也可以很清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2743.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2759.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
氣象站是一件事情嘛這是剛剛我們說的那聯外道路這就是剛剛需要交通的部分也希望可以到時候提出更多的你們怎麼去維護這個部分以至於讓氣象站的被使用率維護不是只有那個站體的本身而是包括整個區域範圍這是一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2760.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2776.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
不過我現在想類似的例子但跳開氣象戰的這個部分我是覺得比如說像我們那個去年山陀兒颱風啦山陀兒颱風其實造成了像新北市的金山地區就損害非常非常的嚴重那我不曉得這個當時在氣象戰的 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2778.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2805.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
使用資訊上面第一有沒有能夠直接到達該地地區對它的災害市井能夠有更多的提示這是第一個我的問題因為我們金山已經很久沒有淹水了而那一天在最低窪處的老街甚至是超過腰部的淹水而且是商業範圍所以非常的損害嚴重這第一個第二個那個地方雖然它快速的復舊了之後其實你去看金山 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2806.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2833.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
外區外圍地方的連外道路也就是山間的農作道路產業道路等等其實到現在是還沒有修復完成我知道國土署這邊也有盡力去修復了但事實上還沒有完成所以對於大家的產業其實危害也很大這部分就是我剛剛一開始提的跨部會的部分那不曉得你們這邊對於時程對這個案件有瞭解嗎對於時程有掌握嗎還沒有可以更快更精進的做法 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2835.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
2856.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
因為金山當時的那個灘災我也有跟委員一起到現場那當天我們可以看得到就是說因為颱風過境之後它的那個氣象條件忽然變得很惡劣所以這個資訊我們是有透過應變中心的系統傳達到因為你剛剛講的其實是蠻好的就是說我們系統都很好可是事實上大概就是來不及啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
2857.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
2885.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
因為這個氣象的變化他很快那我們當時傳達到新北市的災害應變中心他們也了解到有這樣的一個情形那到區公所的時候呢因為這個氣象條件的變化區公所他的因應能力是有限的所以當時在降雨的這個過程裡面區公所其實最主要他要通知民眾就是說在撤離的部分在這個疏散的部分那其他有關於比如說財務的部分你們就沒有辦法 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
2887.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
2913.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
因為根委報災後的部分也牽涉到包括經濟部在水利單位的一個復舊還有就是我們在道路的部分還包括農業部跟我們國土署所以它是一個跨部會的工作那目前那也是災害的復舊的部分期前的這個災害防治的部分是內政部可以統籌嘛跨部會但內政部統籌那防舊的部分呢防治的不是防治就是後面復舊的部分呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
2914.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
2931.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
復舊部分目前我們在行政院是交給公共工程委員會去做災後重建的總體的一個統籌的工作那內政部我們是對特定的災害類別我們有做災害類別的整個災害防救業務計畫的一個統籌那法令是我們主管所以分工上是有這樣的一個架構 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
2932.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
2951.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
所以我也是覺得今天雖然我們是在討論法律的建構啦但是我個人比較在意的還是怎麼把事情做出來不管是事前的防治還是事後的復舊的部分那這中間牽涉到真的是太多跨部會的部分我希望在討論的時候呢其實這個內政部可以把實務的案件就像我們今天這樣討論出來你剛剛其實點到了一個點喔我們就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
2954.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
2976.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
區公所的能力可能略嫌不足我們現在不是要苛責區公所反而是那以內政部這樣子的體系下去你有沒有能夠再賦權給區公所更多的量能去協助處理才可以下一次災害發生的時候你不用講出這句話嘛啊我什麼什麼都通知了但也許區公所量能不足那我覺得這個就是一個很可以改進的地方嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
2976.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
3006.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
市長區公所目前在消防署我們有一個專案的計畫在協助區公所建立防災協作中心那也協助區公所在強化他們在志工這方面的工作那事實上過去我們是既有計畫還是新增計畫是既有計畫所以預算不會受到影響預算目前應該是應該是沒有對應該是沒有預算是因為他是既有的如果我要再加重更多的新技能也許就會受到影響了 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
3007.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
3013.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
對如果是要訓練的話可能預算的部分就要去做追加好吧那我就問到這裡了話就說到這裡好我們請張志倫委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
3033.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3043.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
好謝謝主席各位委員各位官員大家早我們是有請這個馬次長好請馬次長還有經濟部的曾副局長好曾副局長 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3046.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3074.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
委員早安好謝謝馬次長首先我還是今天要討論的是有關於這個災防法的議題那我首先還是要對這個內政部及這個警政消防給予肯定因為我相信在災害的發生內政部跟警政消防第一線我相信都做了最大的努力跟最及時的處理所以我還是要代表代表立法院代表所有國人感謝第一線執勤人的辛勞那可是我相信 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3074.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3101.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
今天委員們在質詢的部分很多也是希望說未來中央跟地方一起共同來合作在災害發生的過程中來去減少一些傷亡跟財產的損失所以第一個我要來請教次長的部分現在很多的我們的地下的管線還是有老舊的問題可能會潛藏重大的災害因為台灣的都市發展迅速基礎建設也是非常的密集 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3101.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3124.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
比如說像天然氣管線石化輸送管排水系統電力電信管線污水及排水相關設施這些重要的生命線基礎遍佈全台可是深埋在地底下導致長年有受到疏忽那相關的問題如果有因為管理不當而重生會造成公共安全的一個重大的隱憂那我想要請教這個次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3125.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3152.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
這個各個縣市如果地下管線已經使用超過30年那一般的這種腐蝕洩漏的問題嚴重可能會影響到公共安全的問題這個現在我們這個內政部有辦法統計有多少育齡的管線在使用那有沒有一些定期的這個監測機制然後如何來汰換這些老舊的管線這是一個很大的問題那我想像市長你現在有辦法來回答嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3154.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3172.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
跟委員報告我們就內政部的部分先跟次長做回報先跟委員做回報對就是那個地下管線的部分我們在那個高雄氣爆之後已經有要求各事業主管機關把管線的資訊移交到我們的消防機關還有國科會 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3174.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3196.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
那我們目前在檔案的部分我們都有建立那管線的建置因為有不同的年代所以它不同的年代它在衛星定位跟這個管線的深埋的這個問題上面可能會有一些落差所以也透過這幾年我們在圖資上面不斷的更新目前當然我們對管線的位置跟它的深度大概都能夠掌握 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3196.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3221.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
但是就是塗車的部分我們沒有問題所以如果說哪一段管線它有狀況的話我們在119的系統在我們的EMIC的系統我們都看得到它在什麼位置但是剛剛委員所垂詢的有關於管線腐蝕老舊跟替換的問題因為主管機關目前是經濟部所以這個部分在管線管理的部分我們是不是可以請經濟部這邊來做一下回應好 請經濟部的曾副局長 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3226.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3231.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
首先謝謝委員關心我們的業務那跟委員報告就是針對整個地下管線的部分不管是他的在做腐蝕相關的這個監控部分其實我們都有有在做我們的即時監控同時我們也會要求業者要提出針對整個的管線維護營運管理的計劃那每一年提出來之後我們隔年也都會配合相關的單位包含地方政府我們會去做這個相關查核的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3251.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3269.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
好等一下謝謝副局長那這邊當然這個經濟部像中央政府單位其實都是以這個督導的方式來做那所以希望說未來跟地方政府的溝通就是說要定期就像副局長講的定期然後如果任何的問題其實大家可以多做溝通協調好謝謝謝謝委員謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3272.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3299.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
好 那再請市長市長那我請教一下看這個問題就是說現在我們很多的都會就像剛剛不管講了高雄的過去的這個起爆事件大家都不想看到這樣的發生那台灣都市區有些道路也常今年來發生這個道路坍塌那許多案例跟地下管線的破損或滲漏有關是不是可以請教市長是不是有辦法建立這些道路坍塌監測相關的一個機制 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3301.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3325.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
現在有這樣的機制嗎跟委員回報就是道路坍塌的機制部分目前我們應該是沒有相關的監測機制那道路主管機關因為分屬於交通部跟內政部各有不同的管轄的範圍那我們在平時的道路養護就是說在這個道路養護工程單位他會去做監測但是沒有一個剛剛委員所提到就是說一個比較完整的監測機制 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3326.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3343.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
好是不是請市長那你有沒有有沒有機會這個內政部可以提出相關的一個規劃就是說未來我們的道路除了去大家知道說平常要把它重新這個重新整修以外有沒有考慮說要提出這個有關於道路有可能貪他牽涉的相關的機制 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3344.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3368.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
跟委員報這個部分我們回頭請國土署那國土署這邊有關於管線的單位還有我們道路轄管的機關我們會去做這樣的一個尤其是雙北六都因為現在這個整個地狹人稠的一個部分所以我覺得未來就是道路灘它的部分如果可以提早的去了解那以及為周邊如果有一些重大建設的開挖其實相關的資料我就認為都可以給國土署做一個相對應的參考 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3371.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3388.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
好 謝謝那第二個再請教我們那個馬次長的部分剛剛有特別提出來就是說有關於施工有時候誤挖平船塗資管理落後剛剛有講到高雄這個氣爆事件其實內政部已經有在協助的一個部分可是針對如果沒有發生重大 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3389.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3416.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
問題的這個地方是不是還是有圖資的一些相關的問題所以才造成說這個有時候挖下去的時候發現說管道跟實際上的狀況不太一樣的問題那是不是說除了一些過去有發生災害的一個地方是不是其他有任何的經濟改善措施就是說來讓其他六都比較重要的一些城市地下管路圖資的一些正確性 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3417.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3421.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
有沒有辦法建立一個全國性的地下管線投資登錄平台 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3423.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3452.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
跟委員報告目前就是說在我們地下管線的部分比較容易發生狀況是天然瓦斯的管線那其他有關於電力水力因為它分屬於不同的主管機關所以我們現在塗製的部分我們是有那至於說剛剛委員提到就是說施工單位本身它在面對這樣的一個施工環境裡面能不能夠掌握這個管線的位置這可能包括地方政府還有施工單位他要去做這樣的一個查核 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3453.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3472.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
所以內政部這邊我們會跟經濟部合作有關於管線的部分在道路底下的管線我們會去合作跟地方政府來合作但是如果說牽涉到施工的部分的話可能就要由地方政府跟施工單位來一起努力好那有沒有建議因為我現在的圖資就我個人現在所了解都是在地方政府的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3474.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3488.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
施工單位去調相關的圖那有沒有辦法說未來有建立全國的地下管線的圖資登錄平台圖資系統嘛 全國的地下管線都是在各自在處理嘛沒有 但是全國我們才 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3491.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3517.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
沒關係這個部分如果沒有辦法的話就是我們的期待啦好不好好那接下來我再請教經濟部好不好經濟部那目前來講齁這個台灣的天然氣的需求尤其現在台灣的電力政策能源政策是這個以氣來取代這個燃煤嘛齁所以天然氣的需求近年不再增加齁那目前靠一階跟二階來穩定供應天然氣並降低燃煤發電比例那這些輸氣管 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3518.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3538.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
當然很多專家學者認為說這管線負荷很大的一些問題的狀況安全性跟穩定性真有疑慮那如果像一階二階的天然氣輸送管是否承擔了高負荷的運送任務那有沒有做這個長期壓力有沒有做這個定期進行管線的壽命評估的這些作業 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3540.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3559.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
謝謝委員指導那這個部分可能後續我們再來跟中油或是我們部內的主管單位我們讓他確認一下那如果委員有需要我們再跟委員做進一步的報告好那最後還是感謝這個次長經濟部就有關於這個人民的安全就是說長期埋在地下的這些不管是 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3560.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3574.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
這個下水道還有剛剛講的這個天然氣比較容易有造成問題的部分還是希望說各部會跨部會來因應現在台灣的極端氣候等影響跟地震影響來做整體的規劃謝謝謝謝委員好我們請蔓越正委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3591.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3594.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
謝謝主席 有請次長好 請馬次長委員早安好 次長早請教一下我們處在地震就是常常地震的我們的台灣在從九二一地震之後我們開始特別注重災後重建 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3618.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3634.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
還有建築的安全針對目前零一二一嘉義大埔的地震災後的補助請教次長不同的類型的災險護研就像說拆除重建補強修繕還有核發補助時依據標準是緊急性的重建性還是會考量說我們的災民的經濟狀況呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3649.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3651.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
要如何去補助的 如何去修繕 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3653.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3680.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
報委我們現在只要是地震發生之後我們第一個最重要的工作就是我們會請結構技師的這個工會來支援我們那去做建築物的一個災損的勘查那就是我們所謂的紅單跟黃單那這一次的這個嘉義大埔震災它比較特別一點是因為它不是一次地震它是很多次地震一直累積起來所以它是一個有點慢的災害 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3681.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3701.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
那所以在每一次的這個不斷的這樣的一個地震的過程裡面它的這個紅黃單就會變化那它要不斷的去追這個進度然後張貼到底是紅單或黃單那災禍補助的部分目前全國是有一個統一的標準只是說居民被張貼了這個紅黃單之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3703.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3714.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
他後續的這個處理的方式是不一樣的所以在這個部分我們可能會有一些同仁他們如果需要委員需要細部的回答的話我們是不是可以請同仁來做補充委員好 那就是說我們針對這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3722.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3737.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
這兩次地震我們在租金補貼或是這個耐震落成補強補貼的方面我們基本上那個金額跟機制都是一致的都是統一的統一的標準以上謝謝所以我們全國都一致不是因為專案來去補助 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3740.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3768.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
所以說如果是這樣子的話關於就是你的回覆是說建議先應用善款處理不足的部分再向行政院爭取贈災基金的提供所以目前的機制範圍監督是這些善款流向還有細部的使用的情形如何我們善款流向是我們請贈災基金會因為他們是主管那個善款的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3770.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3781.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
所以说都会达到因为时间有限所以都是达到我们是及时紧急的补助嘛这个部分就是上款的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3782.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3803.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
還有申請的流程有就是說各個區因為一個地方有很多區不同剛才你說就是不同的就是一直後續的去產生所以說這樣的災民你覺得是補助是就是一致性的有公平嗎有滿足說這個災民的需要嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3807.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
3828.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
我們目前的作業程序這都是由村里長跟公所來合作那民眾他本身在受災的這個第一時間我們會有所謂的救助那救助的部分就是由公所跟村里長去做調查之後認定然後來發放這樣的一個救助的金額 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
3828.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
3850.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
是,但是我看到剛才你說因為勘查的時候是由我們的技術工會來辦理那個是針對房屋對,針對房屋還有補助,所以你剛才有講說但是說紅單跟黃單的影響居住補助的差別 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
3851.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
3875.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
所以請教我們市長現在的你勘察的除了就是統一表格以外會不會因為不同的機制就是認定就是有差別所以如何鎮定這種差異以免我們在乎無法是實際可以去領這個補助我們是關心的是說因為你看的是黃單跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
3878.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
3892.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
紅單但是有的黃單他們是低收或者是說有及時需要的時候你們有沒有其他的就是一個規定還有就是幫忙這個才是我們最關心的 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
3893.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
3912.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
根委員報告,我們所有的紅黃單的張貼,它在10天之內它會由所謂的三大技師公會來做緊急扶貧緊急評估完之後,民眾還是可以跟當地政府申請扶貧 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
3913.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
3941.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
那目前我們在0121的這個地震都是由地方政府他現在在受理扶貧所以以這個委員所提到的就是我們的祭祀公會在對紅黃單的認定他是有一致的標準他有一致的規定那民眾如果對於這個認定他認為有疑義的話他會申請扶貧但是基本上我們都會從寬去做認定去協助民眾在災後能夠獲得最大的一個支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
3941.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
3956.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
很好所以讓我們的民眾才了解說你是用一致的標準來去勘察還有就是說我們花蓮跟我們嘉義的地震是補助也是同樣都是同一個標準這樣的話對我們在地震的地區的民眾 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
3962.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
3965.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
他們才會覺得是說公平是 謝謝委員關係還有第二個想要去問我們就是消防署的署長關於我們就是台中新冠三月就發生七爆造成很多人死亡 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
3978.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
3985.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
但是除了事後追查原因責任外我們更應該重視我們公共場所的措施安全還有就是實施還有預防因為初步報告我們看到的氣爆現場不排除因為切除瓦斯管線時就是瓦斯外洩導致施工產生的氣爆但是因為瓦斯氣爆我們火災的自動警報設備 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
4007.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
4008.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
依據各類場所消防安全設備的 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
4013.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4039.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
設置標準規定使用瓦石是地下地下層的建築屋才需要安裝但是經過這次的七報案有沒有重新研議增加需要裝設就是偵測的場所還有是否考量我們公共建設密閉式的時候強化建設就是瓦石外洩偵測的設備 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4042.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4046.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
有沒有這樣的一個計畫或者行政做措施 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4047.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4074.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
好 感謝委員垂詢新光三越這個場所因為是屬於賣場所以它本身就有天然氣使用也有裝置設備 偵測設備那只不過說因為施工過程當中它沒有把這個設備維護正常使用功能造成天然氣漏氣沒辦法偵測到這個簡報的一個問題所以針對這個設備不能使用台中市也針對不能使用的狀況開放 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4076.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4091.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
那對於施工中的防火管理沒有施作也有做開發的動作跟委員做報告所以針對這樣的規定我們是說要求是地下設的建物現在的話我們的建築都有這樣的設備的要求 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4100.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4103.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
所以這樣的話我們是因為在過程中我們要如何讓說嚴格再去把關因為現在跟以前不一樣以前這是我們是樓層現在都是高樓所以說這些的建設或者是說我們要遵守安全的標準還有我們的承包商我們的罰款也是要這個也是行我們的署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4127.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4151.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
這邊要去把關希望我們就是就是在關於這個危險物還有高風險這個部分我們要多多用心所以說希望我們的安全的部分和我們的署長這邊希望大家共同來去達到最更好的所以剛才你回答這個部分我希望說我們的高樓還有我們地方都要去 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4155.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4164.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
把這樣子的標準來去做好好感謝委員是好謝謝好我們請牛軒廳委員謝謝主席這個馬市長有請好請馬市長委員早安市長早安 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4180.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4198.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
這個本席一直都非常關心這個倉儲的防火這個的部分當然今天討論災害防救法大概文字上的一些修正跟微調還有一些精神的加強這本席都敬表支持希望審議的過程可以順利那但是討論法條我覺得不如好好去看一看我們的災害防救的白皮書啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4199.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4216.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
然後並且跟本席一直都關心的倉儲的防災的部分來做一個討論這113年的災害防救白皮書有針對工廠的安全統合管理機制有提很多的對策比如說盤查管理啊 查核啊 演練等等對不對這都是這都是題中應有之議啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4217.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4238.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
那這個113年的8月21日這個陳金德政委也有主持跟倉儲有關因為倉儲其實有討論了一段時間就是說要強化倉儲業者的危險物品管理延商所以說有把危險物品拉出來不管是不是存放在工廠的廠區之內但是倉庫或寄存只要是危險物品的時候它應該就要有所謂的依法 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4238.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4257.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
申報的這樣子一個一個程序但大體來講他還是附屬在工廠下面的嘛也就工廠如果有危險物品的管理原料他如果倉儲他要申報的那再加上我們去年通過的這個消防法的修正案也有把一定規模以上的倉儲納管但那個討論的是火災發生的時候這個消防救災的資訊權的確保 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4258.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4284.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
所以他其實有一點點的進度但我還是要繼續往前來追蹤這個題目因為我相信以目前這樣子的一個防守的強度大概還是很難杜絕所有倉儲的這個火災這個我就先請教一下這個次長這個倉儲跟工廠的類型是不是一樣報委是不同的應該是不同的對不對這我也不用問經濟部其實是非常清楚的從防災角度來講他也是不一樣的那現在以 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4285.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4311.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
你你從防災主觀的這樣子一個角度來出發啦齁如果說倉儲只存放一般物品有沒有必要要擴大納管或者是要怎麼樣來納管有沒有討論過這樣的事情報委員倉儲基本上他還是要有基本的消防安全設備對那麼如果他儲存的不是所謂的危險物品的話那麼他還是需要在我們的資訊介入權上面要告訴我們他裡面所儲存的內容是什麼因為他還是會有火災的風險 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4312.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4325.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
還是有火災的風險嘛但我們的消防法只能目前只能規範到就是說發生火災之後你要提供相關資訊嘛對不對可是平日的平日的防火和盤查跟檢查等等的這樣一個機制目前有沒有一個規章來做規範 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4328.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4356.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
我們目前是想要修請這個工廠輔導法裡面去處理這個問題這就本期要強調就是說理論上來講規範倉儲應該說規範相關防火的過去大家的重點都放在工廠所以是從工廠管理輔導法裡面來處理但剛剛我們也討論到其實工廠跟倉儲有一些本質上的差別那就造成一件事情就是工廠管理輔導法有規範很多跟防火相關的事情讓你的災害防救有辦法順利的進行可是倉儲沒有它等於是有點像漏網之魚這是第一個狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4357.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4382.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
第二個狀況是即便現在的狀況是講說我工廠附屬的危險物品你是用倉儲的方式處理的時候你要納管但我那天跟基層的消防弟兄座談跟了解的時候他們提了一個問題很好我如果單純只是販賣危險物品因為產業鏈嘛我如果是進口外國進口商我進口一批化學藥劑它是屬於的危險物品但是我只是代理進口而已啊然後我進口之後我就放到了其中一個倉儲請問這樣的狀況是有沒有要申報的 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4385.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4411.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
鮑偉如果說他達到儲存管制量30倍以上那他基本上就要申報我們也要聯合稽查對但是問題是我這我就跟市長我們的認知可能就出現一點差別就我們的了解是基於工廠管理輔導法等等相關的延伸規定跟你災害防救規定所以是工廠端去處理這個事可是我剛剛講是進口喔我只是進過來然後找時間把它賣掉這個其實就我本期的了解從消防第一線的反應是他反而是查不到的 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4412.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4428.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
因為他沒有在這個守備範圍裡面所以這就是本期今天要提這個職權原因就從你的宅在房舊白皮書裡面我希望齁這個針對倉儲的部分有進一步的進一步的討論啦我們當然一步到位就是說要全面納管或什麼當然很快然後也會造成一定的衝擊這本期完全理解 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4428.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4433.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
但是我覺得如果只做到資訊權是不夠的換言之我們要針對工廠管理輔導法要做進一步的討論現在內政部針對工廠管理輔導法如果要納緩倉儲或者是強化他的防火設備你們現在有什麼具體的規劃跟進度跟經濟部對話有沒有什麼具體的成果 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4445.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4460.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
跟委員報告因為這個部分當然剛剛委員有提到就是說行政院目前有政委在協調這件事情那如果說以消防署或是內政部的角度來看的話我們現在目前第一優先的是要去處理所謂的公共危險物品的倉庫 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4461.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4479.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
因為這個部分對於我們救災人員的威脅是最大的所以我們目前大概在地方政府回報我們總共納管了142家那這個不同的縣市政府有它的數字那這些都是我們在工廠之外的公共危險物品倉庫我們現在都已經納管 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4481.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4502.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
對 有沒有包含進口的市長你可以回去瞭解一下啦就本期的瞭解是 進口比如說代理我只是專門進那個是漏網之魚 這個我覺得立刻要處理如果可以有一套規章可以納管來做納管那第二個 我還是希望未來工廠管理輔導法要有一定的修正跟考量倉儲跟工廠當然不一樣比如說工廠我們是用防火區劃的邏輯來規劃 來做災害的預防 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4506.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4529.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
那當然你用倉儲你要求他用比照工廠用防火區法可能他就有實際上的困難因為他就對於倉儲的容量等等造成一些影響因為他也沒有產線沒有人啊對不對所以他有不同的說法那你們自己建築研究所其實也做過研究嘛也就是物流倉儲建築設置防火區法的方案研究裡面其實就有提到好像沒有辦法一體適用但是他們有提一個新的概念比如說有淨空隔離帶啊我只要讓區域 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4531.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4551.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
拉的夠開那你這個隔離帶剛好可以做比如說倉儲的這個運輸的一個動線等等那我覺得這表示你們其實有在做一些研究的那既然你們已經有針對倉儲的防火相關的一些規範已經有在做研究我就希望未來可以進到下一步的討論我們消防法只是第一步嘛工廠管理輔導法它可能不見得你要嘛就有個倉儲的專法嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4552.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4566.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
要嘛就是也許在工廠管理輔導法裡面有一個倉促的專章在平常的時候他就要有納管跟防災的這樣的一些配套的機制這樣子的一個想法你們內政部打算有沒有執行的一個時間表或者說你有遇到一些阻力或難題 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4567.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4590.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
跟委員報告 我們目前在 剛剛委員提到就是說包括建研所他們所做的這些研究我們會把這些資訊再跟經濟部去做分享那至於說對倉儲業者或者是倉儲的納管我們目前除了消防法之外那就是我們跟經濟部在公服法這塊我們會去討論但是時間表的部分跟委員報告目前我這邊所知是還沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4591.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4610.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
我希望這部分稍微可以明確一點啦所以簡單就做個結論啦第一個就是說現在你針對既有危險物品的納管我希望你再進口這一端啦也就是說它非工廠生產出來的而是進口販賣的這一端它的倉儲的部分你要有一個專案的配套計畫那第二個我希望把 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4611.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4630.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
這個工廠管理服務法的修正你要提到有具體的一些做法比如說你有哪些條文要修正你至少內政部從防災的這個地方來出發你總可以有一些主張嘛那經濟部有哪些反應你如果沒有一些條文或者是沒有一些內容的話恐怕有困難這一點我希望我給這個次長一個月的時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4631.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4647.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
好 做一下相關的一些規範比如說你們對話的幾次 開了哪些會議好 目前遇到的狀況是怎麼樣修法的預計的期程是什麼這讓本席一個月之內有書面資料可以掌握可以嗎好 我們提供資料給委員好 謝謝謝謝委員好 謝謝牛許廷委員接下來我們請張宏祿交委好 我請次長跟署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4661.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4681.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
總委早安委員早安署長像剛剛說這個工廠的危險物品的這個我也跟你說過很多次了就是這個現在都是科技都AI了那我們到底有沒有具體的規劃了 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4683.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4705.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
是 跟我們回報就是我一直關心微型物品跟建築物的平面圖這個區塊我們目前兩個區塊一個就是工廠微型物品在雲端那雲端這個區塊大概都已經到位那我們接下來會跟化學所在研究怎麼把這些化學物品用AI化 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4706.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4731.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
來讓我們就在裡面更清楚掌握產生化學物品反應以後造成什麼結果那目前是先做到就是報案以後我們可以把現場的九宮閣的狀況就USUS的呈現的這個結果先讓現場第一線同學了解說這個場所裡面有哪些危險物品資訊在裡面這是第一步已經做到那在派遣這階段已經做到了 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4732.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4760.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
那另外再進一步就是再進一步的分析那分析以後怎麼得到這個資訊這個有計劃正在執行當中那對於國土署這邊建築圖的平面圖這個區塊呢我們後續是有個五連中程計劃對119派遣系統在做一個精進那兩個系統就微型物品跟建築物的平面圖這個區塊我們也同步在做這方面的計劃 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4761.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
4790.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
跟知情當中跟委員會報但這個中間如果他有私自挪移你在圖上是看不到的啊這個是比較所以我們在很感謝委員上個會期有通過消防法修正案就是危險物品場所的人員專人在發生事故以後在現場做一個提報讓我們就在於了解說這個現場到底有什麼委員關係有沒有變化 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
4790.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
4819.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
那這個區塊他沒有做的話我們在去年處罰的額度相當重那在上個月我們特別學習到日本有COHOMA的宣言就是要報告跟我們報告消防機關報告什麼東西那個區塊我們也把它具體化就是讓專責人員要做什麼事怎麼讓他跟我們消防救災人員做一個溝通這個目前正在進行當中很感謝委員關心沒有齁其實有一個觀念都要改市長是 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
4820.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
4845.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
你知不知道現在啊自動倉儲化設備他們都怎麼做他們連一個東西齁擺在哪裡然後怎麼移動什麼的其實都AI化都電腦化了捏你任何移動一個像你的那種東西如果你要出貨其實在鍵盤上打一打自動都輸送了都直接出來了捏倉儲都做得到捏啊這個做不到嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
4851.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
4878.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
這個一定規模的業者對倉儲的管理他的那個自動化跟AI化這個沒有問題我們現在有很多的業者他可能都比較小型的或者是家庭式我只問你做不做得到以現在的科技做不做得到你只回答我一句就好了科技做得到好對嘛啊做得到是啊那你針對大型的你為什麼不去要求 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
4880.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
4905.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
你沒有那麼多藉口啦真正發生嚴重事情就是大型嘛你的中小型也不可能發生多大的爆炸也不可能說齁有多大的危險啊它還是有啊但你對於這種大型的業者倉儲都做得到了這個做不到這就看出有沒有魄力要做而已啊對不對是不是啊市長 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
4906.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
4928.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
包委我們努力對我們會努力你們努力啦齁這個問題我跟署長也講過很久了啦齁這也不是為了我個人這最主要的是為了人民的生命財產還有保護我們消防弟兄做這些事情是為了這兩個目的而已這個我真的覺得應該要去做啊對不對齁這個沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
4931.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
4945.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
如果我是部長我覺得這沒有空間這一定要做好不好那再來我想請問一下防災室我們現在到底計畫做得如何啊署長防災室 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
4946.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
4969.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
是 感謝委員 防災是目前到去年底已經超過4萬人的一個培訓量那今年我們在在整個由下而上的力量我們今年對於常備役跟替代役也做個普訓那目前的訓練量可能在今年應該可以達到10萬人左右的這個量多少 這個正在進行當中今年 早半 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
4970.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
4979.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
今年去年4萬今年會到10萬因為今年把常備役跟替代役這個現役的跟退役的這樣都納入訓練民眾自主報名的勒 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
4980.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
4999.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
民眾自主報名現在我們也跟縣市來做一個協同合作那目前是每個縣市至少要300位的量每個縣市300位的量現在正在執行當中好300位啦每個縣市300位好那我覺得你們要既然要推這個計畫了經費給你們了我覺得啦齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
5004.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
5021.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
民間自主報名的那才重要啦啊你那些什麼那些我說真的你你不如說我我去到去去齁軍校我也每個人都要每個人這樣數字就很快了啊對不對好謝謝好我們來努力謝謝委員好謝謝張宏祿張偉再來我們請李博義委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
5037.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
5061.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
謝謝 請馬次長還有蕭署長委員長好安委員長好安今年2025年齁那是高雄氣爆發生的第11年這11年來其實 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
5063.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
5090.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
包含有很多過去曾經在高雄市政府消防局的同仁我還記得那天晚上高雄市消防局的主任秘書跟很多現場的消防局的人員走到凱旋路跟二聖路的路口的時候一邊往左一邊往右往左這一群人包含高雄市消防局的主任秘書 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
5092.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
5110.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
是最後一個在氣爆現場被找到的罹難弟兄當時沒有人知道高雄市的地底下有那麼多的石化管線發生了這個氣爆之後當然這個原因 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
5114.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
5143.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
後來一一探究出來包含當時是1986年中油接受李長榮失話委託埋設但是當時在下水道工程處驗收的人員沒有強制請中油公司或李長榮把這條管線移除所以發生了這個事件也造成當時的基層人員後來也入獄 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
5145 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5171.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
服刑為這件事情負責所以這是一個悲劇讓我們知道接下來不要再發生這些事情但是我還是要必須要回過頭來看一下當時的行政院做了什麼事情當時的行政院滿有政府不編列特別預算不訂定管線管理專法不成立中央重建會 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5172.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5191.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
放著高雄市政府自己去處理所有的罹難者包含傷者包含我們所有的消防弟兄所以這是一個非常悲痛的事情到時隔11年後的今天2024年我們已經把過去氣爆前的89條 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5193.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5215.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
這個石化管線降到71條其中有59條還在使用中長度一共有932公里涵蓋14個行政區如果在我們的消防署以及地方政府沒有做這個相關的這些石化管線的這些圖資的重整 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5216.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5240.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
我們也很難想像未來在發生類似有氣味事件出來以後那我們整個消防地區要如何來因應所以在這邊2014年的7月31的凌晨發生到現在那我希望災害不是只有地方政府可以處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5241.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5262.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
我們整個消防署我們整個行政院其實跟地方的整個不管是圖資或者是相關的這些必須要可以提供救災的這些內容我們必須要審慎的來完整整個消防地區可以去對於相關救災的這些資訊請教署長這些相關的資訊你認為現在充足嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5271.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5293.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
報告委員我們現在在地方政府的合作目前的合作機制目前有一個合作的平台那在疫苗中心開設這個也有一個運作的機制那當災害來臨之前我們的預警措施跟通報跟啟動疫苗機制這個大概都已經到位那整個災情的掌控跟了解跟處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5294.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5322.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
我們EMIC系統大概都已經到位都已經運作幾年下來以後大概在過去幾次災害裡面也有進行的考驗對救災的資源目前有200多萬筆的資料也在資料庫裡面這個都已經到位了所以經過一次又一次的考驗大概這樣的合作默契跟潤滑跟彼此間的合作關係甚至中央對地方的合作大概有一個期日在 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5322.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5344.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
那災防辦也每年針對於地方政府對於災害防救推動也做一個訪評那訪評完以後到底還有存在哪些需要增進的地方我們也做一個強化那同時像去年的幾次中南颱風以後事實上我們一直在檢討就發生以後中間有哪些地方是不順的卡卡的 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5345.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5368.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
那怎麼來調整這樣的一個機制大概我們也同步在做一個檢討設計尤其比較具體就是我們在偏遠山區在偏遠山區的通訊這個部分先到位那最近也在針對偏遠山區到底它的電力是不是透過就是用太陽能板的機制來做電力的供應這目前在檢討調整經驗當中這個跟委員回報 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5371.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5393.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
謝謝署長那站在這個防災或者是救災所有的消防弟兄站在第一線那我們必須要有充足的這些資訊給他們那另外就是最近的台中新光三越也會衍生相關營業場所這些室內裝修的這些申請然後審核我想我們都必須要再加強 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5394.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5403.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
另外對於很多的天然災害包含這些地震的消息其實現在的認知作戰在網路的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5405.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5429.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
訊息傳播上非常非常的嚴重常常會有一些散播災害不實消息的這些訊息那我在這邊也希望消防署還有內政部這邊嚴正這個訊息如果有這些亂散播訊息的比如說啦哪裡地震然後哪裡開始火災啦什麼這個沒有經過查證去傳這些相關的訊息我覺得對於民眾都要做一定的 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5430.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5451.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
宣導不要讓民眾這樣誤傳感謝委員這個部分有罰則災害防救法裡面有罰則散佈不實的災情訊息這個我們都一直在注意到這樣的發展跟不實訊息的傳遞必須要做一定的宣導感謝委員市長你回應一下不實訊息你回應一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5453.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5468.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
跟委員報告我們現在有幾個法律可以處理第一個如果是跟災害有關的話氣象法災害防救法都可以處理那另外就是說如果是跟我們現在有沒有處罰過處分過目前不實訊息沒有災害防救法沒有不實訊息沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5469.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5482.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
那氣象法有氣象法他們對這個有一些氣象粉磚沒有具備這個氣象保保員資格的話他們有處分那這是在交通部那我們社會法也有處分過好謝謝好謝謝委員好我們請王美惠委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5497.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5499.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
主席,我們現在正式好,請馬市長委員長市長,在這裡本學要跟你談到今天我們的防災事的問題是在我們83年就開始推動 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5521.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5532.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
在這個過程當中這個推動之後你如果已經那個防災室已經夠全台灣有四萬兩千人在四萬兩千人的時間到日期有六百可能的但是剛才本市所聽到的我們的消防署署長說每一個所在 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5549.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5552.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
最少要有三百人甚至在這裡本席請教一個問題一個地方像我的故鄉中間二十萬人外我現在的母親 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5566.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5578.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
六八控兩個,但是我們這個防災室,是專業要怎麼保障去幫助自己的救災嘛你認為到現在,這樣我們是不是要再呼召地方有機加熱水的人,再去訓練這個防災室嗎?來 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5591.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5598.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
現在我們除了剛才蕭榮樹說的一個所在六百的以外沒有,他說三百,一個所在三百 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5606.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5628.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
一年三百但是我們現在還有另外一個管道現在對計程車司機跟公寓大廈管理人員我們現在也在做專案的強化所以消防署這邊在努力國土署跟我們透過交通部我們也同時在做所以不是只有消防署在訓練防災室我們現在透過各個部會都在訓練這件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5629.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5638.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
都有透過每一個地方的訓練更多人在這裡面 我覺得台中消防署現在補充說一天最少300人不是到目前我們一百十三年到現在是一天增加300人 一天增加300人 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5656.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5661.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
是這樣嗎?因為這個醫生,三百的醫生是消防署的醫生,但是譬如說,剛才說到的計程車,還是公寓大廈,還是說白的保肥,他會用白的保肥醫生去做這個訓練。 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5674.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5675.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
當然啦,不然你還可以說後面淋淋淋淋的,這樣不行啦這我們是知道,這是我的想法,是覺得每一個縣市都應該輔導他們那麼多人,作為防災士啦尤其現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5693.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5709.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
你看像家裡就好了,最近地黨是要如何互助和自治,可以保護自己這是最重要的,市長你可知道,你們的困難當中,為委託民間的委託好 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5713.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
5722.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
多多教育器沒有委託任何一間校也好 民間也好 基金會也好你知不知道來 市長是 教育院報告訓練機構是用民間自己申請的所以現在教育器如果沒有訓練機構我們可以來負責 我覺得民間的申請像校 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
5740.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
5746.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
國立會有很多基金會的地方我的意思就是說不用說一定是被動的啦有時候我們是中央跟地方要互相的嘛不是說你自己沒來申請自己就不用啦 不可以這樣啦如果一個地方被我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
5765.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
5771.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
每次都沒來申請,跟他爺爺的爺爺,不就都不用訓練,就要去百貫市訓練我覺得可以輔導一下,好不好因為本身的所了解,是覺得自己去補,那些官員去處理,才對 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
5785.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
5811.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
在這個犯罪室裡面本身要探討的就是我們內政部有消防署另外自己的訓練農業部水利署水保署也自己訓練經濟部的水利署也自己訓練那這些單位有辦法整合起來嗎來 市長 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
5813.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
5831.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
我們現在已經整合了,農業部跟經濟部的多元防災室,我有納入土石油的專員跟防汛志工,我們都有給他認可他的資格,然後把他納入我們的多元防災室 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
5832.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
5836.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
因為市長我才會這樣問,因為現在最近有的人不知道你們已經整好了,可以,剛才你說的已經把糖納入了,所以我覺得這是非常重要的訊息,要讓我們的 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
5852.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
5857.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
救災人員還是消防署這邊大家多溝通知道這個問題因為我覺得你們有的做不代表大家都知道你們的努力在哪裡所以要多多去溝通一下要溝通大家知道中央政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
5874.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
5878.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
是做到什麼 跟現在的防災有需要怎麼改善嗎這是最重要的 本席跟你剛才說的就是防災事的問題我們也在一起 能夠輔導那麼多人來我們會來輔導 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
5892.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
5900.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
在這正是本縣在正當說到我們消防署的發揮在跟我們這裡議銷這個提檢的問題現在不知道辦到哪裡來 署長感謝委員我們最近兩個部門同時在進行 其中一個問題是健保署裡面我們大數據裡面分析我們消防裡面大概有哪些問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
5919.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
5921.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
不是啊,市長,我現在過程,你要去努力啦,現在我是要了解所說的,就是說,我們這裡的泡沫林園,這裡的技校,所做的東西,所監促他們的權利,他們當時可以使用。 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
5940.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
5948.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
這樣還要緊啊確認了就開始執行今年是5月10月還是12月應該4月1號應該就確認了就開始那4月1號是6月還是8月我們會跟地方政府來合作啦因為我想說有的做時間也要快我知道政府的錢扣一千一百都是要有幾位要有以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
5970.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
5972.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
我們有辦法開,這是沒有錯,但是要趕快,因為正當審過三個月的東西,我也知道你要有執法,要有什麼,要有時間,這本事都知道,但是要趕快,要買一個工具 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
5990.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
6001.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
六月也可以 十月也可以 為什麼我們不可以提早發財好不好 本席幫你探討這件問題 要邀請去我家來實行預算簽認以後 我們就全面來實行好 謝謝好 我們請黃俊斌委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
6021.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
6025.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
好 謝謝主席 我們請我們的次長好 請馬次長委員早安次長早安 次長這樣我們那個防災法的修法相當的重要如果在修法的時候會有更多的細部討論但本席認為如果連國土都充滿危害的時候你再怎麼修法跟給預算都來不及 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
6046.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
6062.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
我們現在應該做的是看到危機就要處理而不是等到發生危險再來降低傷害那去年本席在內政委員會針對國土法、海拔法都有參與修法跟討論為的就是要給台灣這邊土地一個充滿生機的土地 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
6063.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
6088.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
但無奈的是不管怎麼修法哪怕我們給再多的預算去做國土復育跟保育都逃避不了我們的土地現在正走向癌症化我是在說民進黨執政之後我們推出了前瞻計畫開啟了大量公共工程的新建還有現在新清單等等這個政策的這個炒房的這個的房市之後台灣的硬體建案繁華了一段時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
6089.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
6104.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
常常聽到很多工地在缺人像這台找不到人甚至很多建築業者都希望能夠開放外籍移工但在這樣繁華的背後現在卻變成我們子孫要付出這樣龐大的代價 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
6106.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
6125.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
我們現在台灣西部有越來越多的糧田雲雲山谷像得了癌症一樣一步一步的死亡凶手是誰?凶手就是銀件工程產生的這些廢棄物跟剩餘的土石四處亂盜你挖開裡面來看有些空間挖開來看裡面有混泥土塊啦馬桶碎片啦石膏板啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
6126.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
6147.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
還有塑膠浪板還有電線種種這個雲間混合的這個廢棄物像去年啊台南市北門有十七公頃的公幼堆裡面多數一些是廢棄的餘溫跟鹽田它地主是誰地主是我們產生部的國有產屬因為它地主偏僻人間罕見所以就容易被亂盜這些雲間廢棄物那當我們這個土地 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
6151.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
6177.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
被這個燒土 黏土跟磚塊的廢棄物倒完之後它完全不適合耕作它等同於這塊土地判了死刑我想 難道你身為營建廢棄物的主管機關內政部都不知道這件事情嗎部長 本期要問的問題是說內政部我們現在統計全國這個掩埋型的土質廠截到去年11月底只剩下876萬立方的這個未納量請問這樣夠不夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
6182.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
6202.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
目前我們跟地方政府還有環境部在處理這個議題因為數字的話如果根據委員剛剛所提到的公共工程拆遷還有包括我們都更會產生很多的營建廢棄物那這些廢棄物我們的確是需要一個地方去做處理所以現在環境部跟國土署他分別有兩套系統專門處理這個營建廢土史 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6204.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6231.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
那我們現在也有在進行這個所謂的營建廢棄物的回收作業所以我們在業者的部分我們也有輔導他們去進行這個廢棄物的篩選以後某一些土方可以再利用我們會做再利用所以這個部分就是說從剛委員提到的土方的棄土的堆置跟我們土方的回收我們現在是兩方面同時在進行那這個部分我們會一起來努力市長那夠不夠目前以目前的這個未納量夠嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6233.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6255.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
目前以我的了解目前是不足我們這個部分我們要去增加因為你去年你去年產出你去年統計啦產出需要填滿的土方就達到388萬388立方的立方公尺的估算齁這兩噸就沒了兩噸就沒了齁那再來你你現在營建廢棄物的混合物處理跟再利用也出現落差嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6256.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6263.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
對,你中央許可52家業者每年可以分類回收再利用的是1192萬噸但是實際上進場的處理的只有163萬噸喔那比例不到一成四喔這要想這麼粗的東西才會回去 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6272.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6299.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
比例根本就不夠啊你進場跟實際上就差那麼多會直接消失的廢墟跑去哪裡就是亂到嘛那土市場的價值像我們土市場價值好像只是要開立假證明在賺錢啊就很多空殼的這個土市場他就是只開證明不收土石不然這些東西消失到哪裡去他不會憑空消失啊所以我們合法運作的土市場其實接近飽和那這樣子是是像市長一講的真的就不夠啊對不對那其實 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6301.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6317.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
有人說明明就不夠然後中央的數字都說夠都在亂講話這誰講的?不是本席講的這是第一線偵辦亂大化建設檢察官講的他說這供需明顯適合內政部要負最大責任這跟我講的 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6319.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6335.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
這個另外就是我們現任的前政務政委員吳哲成委員他也直指我們內政部這部分確實是失職他之前也要求說內政部要盤點我們合適的土地地點由地方來規劃更新設現在都快兩年了請問地點在哪邊 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6336.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6352.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
根委員報告 這個我會去查明年之後跟委員回報因為有一些細節在國土署那邊不過這個部分跟委員回報我們是會努力去處理這個供需差的問題因為這個問題不是最近這一兩年才有這是一個非常長期的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6353.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6378.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
所以北京提出的這些事是我們就在這個相對重要是可是國土的問題是已經擺在眼前要解決我想沒有合法跟足夠的量能當然就讓業者這邊亂套了那不只如此所有的法規還有法規都亂了套從土是讓你開立假證明年單然後供34天繞場一圈做假紀錄這個各縣市的這個證明年單的格式也不統一容易被混變過關那地主 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6379.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6401.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
它也常常被人頭詐騙用來盜這些廢棄物我想種種的問題都看到中央已經明明都清楚這件事情要趕快來解決那我們中央如果還沒有訂定一定的這個土石方的這個檢測方法包括採樣的數量 雜質成分跟占比等等這個也困擾我們業界嘛所以這個部分你看連金財院都公佈了看不下去了金財院說 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6403.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6430.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
營建剩餘土方土石方的處理方案這個未接緊在行政規則缺乏法律授權導致強制力不足而且與廢棄物清理法等多重規範這個範疇重疊主管機關的權責不清廢棄物認定標準模糊能夠造成什麼造成我們執法困難所以這個部分內政部具體的修文什麼時候要做能夠什麼時候可以送過來審 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6432.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6455.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
這跟委員報告我們會後跟委員做說明因為這個部分有一些細節是跨部會要去處理的是那我們有法律上競合的問題那剛剛也跟委員報告就是說除了中央政府之外因為對土資廠部分的管理地方政府其實他有他一定的職長所以最了解土資廠的問題的大概是在地方政府第一線所以這部更應該是還整合這塊是這個我們會虛心檢討 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6457.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6471.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
謝謝市長市長本期需要提醒的是說修復修法跟預算都沒有關係這些問題不是今年才開始運氣廢棄物的不法利益龐大已經躍升為黑幫收入的前三名已經超越賭場 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6473.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6491.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
這個行政院也視為重大的經濟犯罪但是我們缺乏打炸、打酒駕的決心所以這部分我們要求的內政務必須要硬起來不然親臉情證、愛鄉圖就只會淪為口號那這部分再請政事跟部裡面來研究趕快來解決這個問題好 謝謝委員主席謝謝市長 謝謝主席好 我們請徐議政委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6506.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6509.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
謝謝主席我們請馬政次好 請馬次長委員早安次長好次長我想請教你一下就是隨著全球氣候變遷加劇那台灣面臨的現在的這個災害的形態 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6524.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6544.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
已經從過去的單一現在變成天然的天然的災害變成是複合型的災害比如說地震可能會引發土石流還有海嘯颱風會伴隨著潮雨還有可能會抱著這個大規模的停電但目前的防災教育還是以單一災害 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6545.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6563.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
的設計為主喔那已經沒有辦法面對這種像複合型的災害交錯的一個情況請次長看一下這個表格我們可以看一下2024年台灣的幾項重大自然災害引發的複合型的災害我們可以看到在2024年4月3號的花蓮地震 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6564.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6571.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
地震引起的有火災、山崩、道路中斷而且導致交通癱瘓那在2024年的7月23號到26號的凱米颱風也造成了淹水、土石流、強風還有造成大規模的停電 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6580.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6601.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
那2024年10月31號的康瑞颱風我們可以看到也強風豪雨也引發了淹水土石流還有大規模的停電那2024年10月初的山陀爾颱風也造成淹水土石流跟大規模的停電喔所以我們可以看到其實現在的災害大概都會是複合型的 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6601.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6617.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
那尤其是我們位處於這個太平洋的地震帶然後夏季也有颱風的威脅也算是這個複合型災害的高風險的一個區域那所以請問次次長我們對複合型災害的這個問題喔有做哪些事前準備事後又怎麼協助 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6619.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6646.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
謝謝委員關心這個復活性災害的問題那委員所提到的這幾個包括我們的災害事件跟整個趨勢這是完全是我們現在在關切的對象那目前在內政部的施政方向裡面我們有六個方向在面對委員剛剛所質詢的問題第一個就是說我們國民的普及的防災教育讓國民本身具有自主 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6647.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
6675.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
互助互救以及這個防災準備的這樣一個能力那這個就是我們今天有提到這跟防災式的訓練有關這是第一個方向那第二個方向就是跟企業的合作因為我們現在有非常多在台灣的這些中小企業時間的關係是不是在六大方向能夠會後以書面可以可以好的謝謝表示你們現在已經有在正式這個複合型災害的一個防治的方法那另外 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
6677.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
6681.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
針對卓院長說我們現在是行動創新AI內閣請問次長有沒有將複合型的氣候事件的風險評估機制以及AI大數據的機制應用於預測複合型氣候的事件 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
6695.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
6715.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
跟委包我們目前有三個不同的方向在努力第一個是中央氣象署他們在對於颱風跟極端氣候的預測他們用AI模型那這個AI模型在包括國科會他跟氣象署也有合作那第二個是我們在做災害派遣的部分消防署現在也在進行災害派遣的AI化 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
6716.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
6735.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
那另外就是說我們在對於科技運用那尤其是有關於無人機的整個偵測解析我們的災區的部分我們目前也在做這樣的一個工作好 謝謝我想這個部分是大家非常關心也是我們必須要積極去面對的也希望能夠好好的運用現在的這個AI技術來去達到預測的效果 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
6737.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
6752.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
那另外就是IPCC在2012年的時候就已經警告複合氣候的事件會因地球的暖化的影響會逐年增加那請問一下次長台灣是否有完整的地方性的評估報告而且制定具體的減災對策 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
6754.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
6783.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
跟委員報告目前在減災的對策上面我們有災害防救白皮書跟災害防救基本計畫裡面有訂定減災目標那各個減災目標必須對應到中央跟地方政府不同的預算科目所以這個是一個蠻複雜的問題不過目標是有的但是比較大的問題就是說因為氣候變遷的速度跟我們訂定目標當時所預估的可能會有一些落差所以這部分我們每年在做滾動式檢討 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
6784.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
6792.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
隨時都應該做滾動式的檢討來去因應現在的一個狀況那另外我想請教一下環境部我們的陳副署長請陳副署長陳副署長好我想請教一下環境部針對氣候變遷基金是否有益助到防災領域還是仍然停留在減碳的政策 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
6813.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
6832.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
報告委員因為我是化學署的副署長是那氣候基金的部分是我們有氣候署那今天沒有派氣候署代表來那是不是容我把問題帶回去那是不是會後能夠把相關的這個有關氣候變遷基金我剛提到這個問題喔能夠到辦公室來說明一下好嗎好的 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
6833.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
6850.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
那另外在最後再請教次長請問一下次長我們現在您同不同意將強化學校的防災教育從小針對我們的這個防災教育進入到我們的課程將富爾市災害應變也納入我們的課程當中嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
6851.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
6866.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
報告委員非常贊同謝謝那目前有沒有這樣的計畫跟委員報告目前在學校的端的防災教育部有三個單位在負責一個是教育部的資科師一個是教育部的校安中心那另外一個是教育部的國教署他們都有各自的計畫在進行好 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
6867.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
6891.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
希望說他們能夠整合一下把這個這個課程能夠整合在一起跟我們內政部都有合作OK好謝謝陳副長您可以先回座是然後另外再請教一下就是昨天監察院提案糾正行政院跟國土署就是近年來營建剩餘的土石方遭非法棄置的事件屢見不鮮那當然這中間還有很多不肖的土石的資源堆積廠已合法 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
6892.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
6919.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
掩護非法 結合開發業者跟回田業者 棄運業者土石土地仲介等上下游串聯的方式形成不法的產業鏈那甚至有的還會把營建剩餘的土石跟這些廢棄物直接從工地運到農地或者是漁溫來去進行非法掩埋那嚴重影響公共安全跟國土的完整那請問次長針對複合型災害發生之後出現大量的這種營建廢棄物 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
6920.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
6947.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
或者是說非法的這種營建剩餘的土方請問目前是怎麼樣子的一個處置各位報告我們在針對災害後的這些所謂的廢棄物的部分我們跟環境部之間我們有做這個廢棄物的堆置跟回收這樣的一個機制那如同剛剛委員所詢問的回收機制的部分我們目前要輔導業者去強化他們的這個容量 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
6947.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
6955.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
那這裡要搭配平時我們的這個營建廢棄物的量跟災時我們會多增加出來的量去做這樣的一個總體的一個評估 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
6958.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
6983.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
那所以總體評估完之後呢我們跟委員報告就目前我們在營建廢棄物的產量跟營建廢棄物的處理量的部分這個部分我們也要再檢討因為這中間的確是有一個落差那這個部分我想既然監察院都特別提出修正了這個部分我想我們要積極的去面對處理這樣的一個問題那接下來我想請教一下那個消防署那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
6985.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
7003.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
我們的蕭署長好就是有關台中星光三月氣爆的事件造成5死38傷那這個當時是應該是因為在當時要裝潢的時候有切割天然氣的管線而造成這樣的一個災害那請問一下就是像這樣子的這一次在這個大型的商場裡面發生這樣的事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
7006.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
7009.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
那我有沒有去研擬過因為我們現在可能針對這個我們的瓦斯感應器並沒有要求全面裝設就針對在這個有關如果設置飲食空間的場所並沒有全面設置那請問未來 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
7020.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
7040.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
是不是會要求我們這有飲食空間的這些營業場所要全面設置瓦斯感測器呢這個案子是有設置只不過施工過程當中他沒有進行施工的管理計畫跟申報那施工過程當中也把檢報設備這邊關閉所以事後所以是等於是施工人員操作的問題施工跟整個系統關閉的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
7045.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
7066.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
所以他那個樓層已經有裝設瓦斯感測器那目前我們有沒有要求有這樣子的這個大型商場的有設飲食空間的這些業者要求他們都要設置瓦斯感測器我們目前是針對地下建築場所這個有要求那委員關係這個部分我們再跟國度署的法規 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
7066.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
7085.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
因為以前可能美食街會設在地下室可是現在都不是現在各個樓層可能都有所以針對這個部分是不是能夠我覺得應該要把這個在各個有關只要有設置美食街的都應該要裝設瓦斯感測器用天然氣或者液化鏽氣的部分我們來檢討好不好 是不是那麻煩一下這個署長這個會後能夠馬上跟我們的國處所以要請次長能夠來好好的來去這個監督這樣子的一個事情我覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
7092.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
7102.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
在這個災害竟然已經發生了但是我覺得未來不能再有這樣子的災害好嗎好謝謝好謝謝那我們請楊瓊英委員主席楊瓊英發言想邀請次長好請馬次長委員早安 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
7122.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
7122.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
智囊 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
7124.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
7147.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
我們內政部作為國內的防災體系這個核心主管機關單位要負責整合各級政府的資源提升應變能力來降低整個極端氣候所帶來的災害我們看到最近地球暖化 氣候暖化的問題不管是在強降雨 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
7152.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
7176.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
還有颱風、土石流、地震這些災害也暴露出有很多是目前我們的政府的機制裡頭還有提升的空間比如說在我們整個資訊傳遞的延遲或者是應變資源不足或者是最重要的整個跨部會的協調困難 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
7179.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
7196.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
導致不管是在搶救或者在安置方面有這個問題產生那所以以2月6號花蓮的地震為例就有部分的受災戶他們會反映說這個臨時安置的措施不夠完善 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
7196.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
7218.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
那在這樣的一個情況之下他們長期也沒有辦法去找到合適的替代住所所以本席要請教次長也就是說在是不是我們可以救以往我們所碰到的當然搶災或者是救災或者是安置所有的人員都很辛苦 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7219.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7241.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
但是如果我們有一個更好的明確的機制讓SOP流程讓它尤其在整個跨部會可以更明確更快速那絕對可以對於受災戶它是一個幫助或者是對地方的一個重建以及搶救絕對有很大的幫助所以本期要請教市長我們要怎麼樣就 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7243.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7270.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
精進的方式能夠迅速的到位然後加強整個跨部會的一個協調來提升這個效能出來請教市長跟委員報告我們在災防法裡面我們有各部會的分工那其他的法規我們也有分工剛剛委員所提示到的有關於收容安置替代住所部分其實過去很長一段時間內政部因為當時主管社會司 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7271.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7291.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
所以我們是設政單位來負責這樣的一個松永安置的作業那目前這個業務移撥到衛生福利部那我們還是跟衛生福利部有合作對這個民眾的災後的松永安置我們有這個分工那內政部主要的分工是在事前我們會協助做志工的培訓還有做這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7293.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7310.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
這個收容安置場所跟地方政府合作去做盤點所以比如說委員剛剛提到花蓮的盛災事實上每一年我們跟花蓮縣政府都會對它的收容避難場所去做盤點那盤點之後這個數量跟它真正發生災害之後所需要的這個數量可能會有落差 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7310.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7328.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
那這個落差我們就會請包括慈濟基金會還有當地的像基督教界賽總會的民間團體去支援所以民眾他在當地如果有這樣一個需求的話地方政府跟我們的民間團體都會去做配合市長你現在談到這裡就是非常的重要 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7328.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7342.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
像我們民間團體慈濟全部志工全部出動基督教全部出動但是在我們的總指揮裡頭就是我們隨時要管控這個機制因為現在軟化的問題有時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7345.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7369.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
我們沒想到會產生這樣的樣態還好有民間的團體隨時協助我們所以我們要很感謝所以因此政府的自己的部分的一個跨部會我們從我們自己內政部到現在衛福部這樣子的一個機制在整個聯繫上面必須還有提升的精進的一個空間要隨時去做調整跟訊息溝通 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7373.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7396.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
本席認為這個是非常重要當然我再一次的強調我們非常的感謝民間的團體所以我經常說的政府的力量有限民間的力量無窮我們必須好好的來謝謝他們一起加油那接下來本席給您一個功課也就是本席非常重視我們長者的租屋的議題今天您來了我也給你提到這個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
7397.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
7419.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
台灣在今年邁入了我們的高齡社會就是大家都眾所皆知但是我們迎接高齡者的住的一個選擇跟品質卻是非常的殘酷我們根據了衛福部的顯示資料裡頭65歲以上租屋的高齡者當中有23%他是面臨著租屋有困難 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
7420.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
7436.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
租屋有困難像台中市我們也是民間的基金會出來協助那所以呢本席認為說民間的有很多的基金會像崔媽媽基金會他們也顯示只有百分之九的房東他願意要租給弱勢的這個族群 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
7439.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
7459.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
那其中高齡長輩只佔了百分之五所以在這樣的一個情況之下我們可以看到我們在推動整個社會住宅當然數量是有限的但是獨居老人的身份來申請是非常的不容易 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
7460.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
7476.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
因為你的數量有限他要申請非常的不容易所以本席跟次長討論的也就是說我們內政部國營事業單位民間開始有在投入有在投入高齡載的一個推動但是引發友善住宅 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
7476.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
7506.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
它不只是只有環境所以本席今天要跟你討論它不只是只有環境它更應該有伴隨的這個服務獨居老人這個伴隨是非常非常的重要所以本席想請教你們怎麼如何的去跨部會的來協調解決我們整個引髮族獨居租不到屋的這個困境讓這些長輩能夠好好的來晚年生活請教 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
7506.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
7521.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
跟委員報告主要的我們目前在租屋市場因為它畢竟是一個自由市場所以我們會透過我們公營的部分我們包括社宅如果有一部分我們可以推動輕盈共居的這個部分我們會推動 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
7522.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
7546.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
那另外就是說我們跟衛福部之間它的長照的體系這個部分去做整合所以它是一個跨部會要去透過包括住宅政策跟社福政策要去合作的一個工作所以剛剛我也提到這是給我的功課所以我們是不是可以把這功課帶回去然後我們跨部會我們去做一些方案上面的一個討論因為社會住宅在您這邊 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
7547.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
7573.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
本席非常的希望內政部應該要去做跨部會的一個協調讓這些長輩真正的租的到屋好好的晚年生活那你去做整合你大概多久時間可以跟本席呢 方案跟委員報告我們是不是可以在一個月之內我們先跟衛福部討論還有我們自己內政部內部然後跟委員做一個熟練的回報好 謝謝好 謝謝委員好 謝謝楊純英委員我們請吳錦銘委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
7587.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
7593.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
好 出席我們議會同仁 請我們的馬次長以及我們消防署署長委員長安 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
7594.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
7620.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
好 早 處長 針對我們今天我們的那個災害防治法因為我現在要說 本省和你共同來檢討因為怎樣呢 很多我們的重大事故發生你像高雄以前的地下的氣爆你看它的管線是全國裡面是比例最高 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
7620.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
7649.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
但是你管線你要怎樣去互查這些管線未來不要再有同樣的事情發生你說像我們前一陣子台中的三月百貨它也是造成一個爆炸的事件那最終我們的專業的信念專業的培育本身在我們過去我的思想在要求我們消防署把我們內政部 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
7650.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
7678.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
要來推動我們的消防學校消防學校的重要性是什麼因為消防學校我們那麼多的消防人員尤其咧我們附帶我們的義消人員黃仙人員因為還有我們的志工人員你那麼多的團體大家都配屬在我們的消防體系裡面但是你遇到一個問題就是我們沒有一間 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
7679.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
7686.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
很傳統的學校你如果說我們的消防學校 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
7688.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
7706.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
不管他的化學用品 不管說在災害的勘察不管說淪落的重大事故 例如說地震造成的危害我們種種的天然災害也好 以及我們會遇到的面臨的問題都可以說是一種完善的設備來培育 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
7712.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
7732.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
我們未來這些人才不管在消防檢查也好才會更加的落實讓我們可以說遇到淪陷的災害發生大家都能有一個非常完善的應變能力是不是說在我們的消防學校這個部分我們要如何共同來研究共同來推動我認為這是最正確的 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
7735.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
7738.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
我們目前消防署的訓練中心是全世界第三大 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
7752.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
7781.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
但是我們的編制只有36位同仁所以表示說我們的場地的訓練是夠但是我們的這個包括行政教官的人力我們還需要大幅度的一個增加那這部分可能也需要大院跟行政院一起來支持那關於剛剛委員所垂詢的消防學校那它的未來我們在訓練中心是不是能夠轉型那它的細節我是不是可以請署長來做回應 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
7782.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
7809.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
好的,來,處長,我先向你報告因為我們的消防,消防他們都寄託在我們的警察學校還有我們的警官學校但是,因為他們的專業性質跟我們又不一樣因為我們要面臨的有水庫車、化學車一些大型的演練場所所以說,在這時候真的是急迫性來,請署長來 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
7812.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
7831.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
感謝委員一直關心我們消防學校的進度那給委員報告說某些的訓練就是正級班特考班那某些正級班的學生本來理論上是兩年在警專事實上現在今年開始已經在一年在訓練中心所以幾乎有一大半的時間在訓練中心做這方面的培訓 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
7832.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
7854.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
這些能量跟特卡班的能量已經達到一次所以首先要為我們做報告那警專警大的學生大概也會朝這個方向來做努力但是要不成立消防學校之前在學校養成教育這些學生讓他的能量事實上已經達到我們要成為消防人員的這個基本的救災能量這個首先跟委員報告這是第一個階段 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
7855.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
7879.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
那第二階段就是這樣一個配合以後因為警專有消防安全科不是說警專就沒有消防安全科有消防安全科警大有消防系那系跟科這邊我們怎麼樣跟他做合作後面是不是能夠朝向整個制度朝向消防學校的發展這個就是我們正在規劃就怎麼一步一步達到 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
7881.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
7908.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
委員期待的這個目標當然最終的目標是達到一個專責的消防學校那在消防署訓練中心的目前規模設備包括今年6月的時候我們要擴大第二階段完工業再啟用到時候我們特別邀請召委跟委員能夠歷年到訓練中心來跟我們知道那時候的規模跟訓練跟教室跟訓練場這又不一樣的一個情形大概已經朝向這個委員期待的目標來進行謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
7909.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
7936.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
署長剛剛我們的次長所講我們是全世界第三大我們的人員才三十幾個那你說你在警專學校也好警大學校也好在那邊培訓你人員行政人員那麼少專業人員你一些教官教官也那麼少你要怎樣去培育我們這些優秀的消防人員然後我們還有義消 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
7939.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
7945.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
還有我們黃仙還有我們的志光所以你看現在連那個搜救隊 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
7947.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
7972.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
會歸類在我們消防署裡面在各縣市的消防局你看這麼多的民間團體他們要有一個非常適合的場地來做訓練啊你一個你消防學校你一成立當然你人員經費你才會充裕啊不然你三十幾個你光是世界第三大那沒有用啊對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
7973.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
7996.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
是感謝委員在還沒到位之前其實縣市真的很幫忙就縣市我們訓練縣市的教官來當成我們訓練中心的教官這個目前已經在做所以目前這麼多的訓練量就是縣市的在此同仁我們培養成教官以後一方面他來訓練中心支援一方面他回到縣市以後也可以把這個技術在縣市來擴大來作業 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
8003.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
8032.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
真的一個學校出來然後整個有憲政人力教官教授這方面人力因為如果說真的要成立消防學校絕對跟警專的消防科跟警大的消防系這個絕對要一起考量這個變成機關間的互動跟組織編制的一個重新調整我們大概有初步的一個構想跟規劃我們再找時間跟委員報告一下我們再來朝這個方向來努力好的 署長我們都期待啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
8032.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
8042.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
不要說每次問都是我們來規劃但是我們還是要有一個時辰因為這是我們的必要性好不好好 謝謝委員好 謝謝鄭天才 鄭天才 鄭天才委員不在我們請黃婕委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
8062.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
8065.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
好 謝謝主席 我們請馬次長好 請馬次長委員早安好 次長早 今天其實大家在討論這個災防法那我認為高雄其實在扮演非常重要的角色是因為高雄的11年前的氣爆案之後整個高雄都不斷地在討論說這個工業管線的問題到底要怎麼解決 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
8089.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
8105.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
那其實我也知道說這幾年內政部非常努力在推防災事的培訓嘛還有另外一個是任性社區的標章所以我還是先想要請教一下目前內政部的進度我知道說目前這個任性社區你們推的標章啊我們高雄總共有拿到19個 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
8106.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
8112.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
那當然我也認為說還要不斷的努力推廣才行因為這個對於高雄來說非常重要尤其是我剛剛講的工業管線的部分那我也要講啊其實過去幾年我在高雄也不斷的倡議說這個大社工業區的降編案到現在都還卡關當中 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
8125.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
8137.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
那卡關到現在廠區還沒有遷走會造成什麼影響呢就是其實我們還是有非常多的工業管線是經過市區的也經過我的選區那甚至我盤點了一下這些工業管線經過市區總共會經過160個里 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
8142.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
8148.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
也就是說這一些工業管線經過的里周遭的里就有160個那這160個里我去對了一下跟目前19個拿到任性社區的標章的總共只有兩個 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
8156.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
8170.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
周邊的里拿到任性社區的標章什麼意思呢就是我們認為任性社區很重要就是你們要有很有很了解這個防災相關的一些基本的知識那也在面對這些風險的時候基本上可以作為一個任性社區來應對這樣的災害可是當我去比對之後發現說160個裡面拿到任性社區的標章的竟然只有兩個 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
8180.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
8194.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
那是不是應該要努力的再讓這一些周邊的離別不管是防災的演練然後努力的多培育這一些防災市然後最後可以多拿到這些任性社區呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
8196.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
8217.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
跟委員報告我們推動韌性社區是從2023年開始那因為它有一個過程喔那每一個過程大概都要花兩年的時間從一星到三星那讓它能夠建構一個自主委運的能力那以目前委員剛剛所提到的的確是一個我們要去檢討的問題就是說以大社工業區做例子 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
8217.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
8244.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
這樣的一個具有高度的危險性的一個空間我們在它周遭的社區應該要去做比較多的輔導跟任性社區的推動這部分我們去做檢討好 謝謝次長的承諾因為我相信次長也非常關心過去我們高雄的這些災害風險的情形那再來要繼續請教這個其實工業管線是不是今天經濟部也有請我們產業管理局的副局長 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
8246.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
8253.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
因為這個我剛剛想要延續這個工業管線的部分跟經濟部就非常有關係因為我知道說其實經濟部也有在做工業管線的社區防災演練嘛那可是就我所知就是每次參加的人員就其實是很難傳承跟維繫的也就是說目前這個社區的演練的成效到底如何其實不得而知然後強度跟次數我也認為非常不夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
8272.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
8301.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
因為我認為高雄市非常需要作為一個韌性城市的一個地方那在這樣的基礎之下我不知道說經濟部對於高雄的這些照顧到底到哪裡了那目前就我所知啦尤其是這些防災演練是你們辦的嘛但其實你們也跟地方的防災是沒有任何的連結也就是說你們防災演練沒有邀他們參與然後你們在處理工業管線的問題的時候其實我們地方的防災是 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
8302.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
8327.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
跟你們沒有任何的關係耶是這樣子嗎謝謝委員的槌尋跟委員報告其實針對我們目前相關的工業管線部分的工業區其實我們都有所謂的區域聯防的概念那實際上來講我們都會要求業者他必須要去提供相關的維管的計畫還有他一些演練那當然我們也會會同地方政府做一些查核還有就是配合地方來做所謂的緊急應變的這些相關的演練 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
8330.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
8347.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
那我想委員剛剛您所垂詢關心的那我們確實都有在努力在做那如果說委員希望我們有更進一步的一個資訊我們再提供給委員讓您做一些我們的指導好謝謝這個副局長喔這就是我想要講的因為就我所知目前房災市比較算是內政部底下隸屬的那 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
8349.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
8368.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
那變得說在我們在防防裡面就只有風災火災然後爆炸然後火山災害是屬於內政部管理的那可是裡面零零種種22種的災害類型是不是其他的類型就沒有辦法讓我們去由這個防災市來做第一線社區的聯防跟協助呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
8369.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
8383.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
我想有關於整個防災事後續的整個規劃可能我們就會來遵循就是未來內政部他所奠定相關的規範那如果有需要我們要納入我們的整個工業管線的防災計畫的話我們也會來做配合來做辦理 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
8384.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
8405.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
好這就是我希望因為今天既然兩個部會都在這裡就是其實啊在我們這裡面有隸屬7個部會22種災害類型那也就是說部會很多災害類型很多種但是最後防災是能夠協助到的社區的部分都只有我剛剛說的這幾種災害類型那我會覺得很可惜就以高雄來說如果就是這些工業管線一時之間有一些氣體的洩漏 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
8409.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
8431.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
那一時之間社區遇到災害類型是這邊說的例如說包括說如果是森林火災或是動植物的災難或是路上交通的事故化學物質或者是任何像是防疫這個生物病人的災害這些其他類型的災害發生的時候防災是到底可以起什麼作用這是我好奇的那是不是這部分也請次長來補充 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
8435.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
8455.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
好謝謝委員的問題我想防災式的訓練我們基本上是採取一個全災型的訓練並沒有針對特定的災害然後只訓練某些災害類型那麼我們在22種災害裡面其實防災式的訓練是希望他們能夠自救跟互助所以它不是一個非常的 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
8456.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
8481.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
高度專業的這樣的一個培訓那剛剛委員所提到的內政部主管的災害之外比如說我們的經濟部主管的水災跟農業部所主管的土石流我們都有防災室的參與他們也會在社區的層級去參與這些活動那這些委員所垂詢的關於工業管線災害的部分我們在社區的培訓裡面我們會培訓防災室對於察覺危險 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
8483.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
8507.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
這件事情還有疏散這件事情我們會培訓他們但如果要提到實際上去救災的話那就變成是專業部門的事所以我們會對這個事情會去做一個區隔好 謝謝次長的補充那其實我也很肯定內政部啦因為其實這兩年推動這個防災式啊我們地方上反應也蠻好的那包括里長都帶頭找里民去上課然後取得這個訓練然後現在我們高雄就已經有3664位了 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
8509.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
8521.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
那我也希望持續的努力推廣 然後擴大到社區讓社區成為韌性的社區好 謝謝次長謝謝委員好 那我們請徐欣穎委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
8537.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
8544.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
好 謝謝主席 本席有請消防署蕭署長好 請署長署長好 本席請教 政府應該作為我們全國消防地修的後盾這句話您認同嗎我們現在努力對 認同嗎我們現在努力 是 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
8561.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
8564.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
政府應該作為消防弟兄的後盾這句話您認同嗎主席可不可以停一下時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
8587.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
8611.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
這個很誇張耶我是請教您您認同嗎認同而且要繼續努力啊對啊很好啊那你從頭到尾不講認同兩個字我說我再問一次我針對問題好不好是政府應該作為消防弟兄的後盾這句話您認同嗎我們認同認同嘛好那這個我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
8612.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
8631.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
有看到有些地方的消防局他可能有為了整合整個消防員長時間救災照護他可能有所謂的後勤照護車或者是生命真相監測系統 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
8633.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
8659.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
像這類的後勤照顧系統對於消防人員的執勤品質請問您認為是不是更有保障我們的後勤照顧已經列入預算就問題問嘛我的問題是您是不是覺得這樣子對我們消防弟兄救災的弟兄們更有保障當然更有保障當然更有保障你認同嗎然後接著你可以講你剛剛想要講的 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
8660.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
8685.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
好感謝我們對於關切委員關心的後勤照護車事實上已經在桃園市有先試辦過那效果不錯那現在已經在各縣市在後續的總統計劃就院裡面計劃核定以後那我們經費核定以後我們就是全國應該會每個縣市至少會有一部後勤照護車所以你們有在規劃已經在列入計劃了是 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
8686.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
8697.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
對 所以像去年我們好像看到整個消防署我們中央政府也很重視嘛消防弟兄的安危還有各方面的需求編了兩百六十幾億 對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
8698.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
8724.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
这是未来五年的经费对对对去年编然后有200万所以我们有为消防弟兄在规划这个部分我们继续努力所以在去年预算我们在这个讨论预算的时候本席有提案这一块嘛那我们本来提案是冻结2000万但是后来我们在预算审查的时候11位委员针对我们消防署的预算43亿我们捅动700万 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
8726.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
8743.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
這個大概是千分之1.6%凍結千分之1.6%這點您應該認同吧我們等於凍結如果大家好好的做為我們消防弟兄努力我們是不是您這個規劃好提來是不是就可以解凍 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
8744.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
8749.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
我們主要非常肯定我們消防署跟各地消防局對我們消防弟兄的安危各方面我們都在努力 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
8767.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
8778.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
對署長這邊我們也肯定所以剛剛本席的問題其實只是這個問題您只要就問題回答就可以好謝謝請你回座主席本席想請馬次長好請馬次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
8785.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
8808.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
委員好市長請問您認不認同防災勝於救災認同對嘛所以我們防災的這個作為很多是我們政府要去推動的沒有錯吧沒錯那現在我們很多老舊住宅的更新跟維護非常的重要但是我們整個的進度是非常緩慢的您知道這一塊嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
8809.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
8836.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
報委員我們了解目前在危老案的一個從前進度那的確有一部分是需要再努力是不是很落後報委員因為它有很多的社會條件跟環境條件要配合譬如什麼社會條件因為我們在推動危老耐震能力的評估的時候這個包括屋主還有我們在這個地方政府的部分都要一起來努力不然的話只有中央來推動是不夠的 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
8838.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
8854.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
對 所以要帶動嘛那請問你們有掌握全國建築物耐震安檢暨輔導重建補強計畫它整個 這個計畫中央提出來但是你們都沒有了解 都沒有逐年的統計現在你有統計數字嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
8856.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
8868.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
包委員我手上的數字是到二月底我們危老的耐震人力評估案件我們是完成了一萬九千七百五十五件不是危老的耐震是全國建築物耐震安檢輔導重建計畫整個的進度 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
8873.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
8894.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
年度目標值跟你完成的進度你們完全沒有而且統計數字只到110年那本席跟這個相關單位所知的時候跟我們說這個要再去問地方政府你看現在114年了你中央只掌握到110年 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
8896.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
8911.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
所以財政收支劃分法很多錢給地方是對的嘛你中央都沒有作為沒有做事好 再來因為時間的關係我們希望你們盡快的去把這一些進度你們要掌握好 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
8915.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
8939.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
領導者不要只有下令在做政治的對立真正要做率領所有的公務員真的要去實際的為我們民眾的需求來做剛剛您有講到不管是耐震或者是我們做一些防護可是更重要的有很多的老舊住宅他需要更新這一塊您了解吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
8940.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
8966.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
我們這邊超過30年屋齡的戶數全國有多少戶 您知道嗎500萬戶那全台住宅老化情況越來越嚴峻每兩戶就有一戶超過30年的屋齡所以全台屋齡超過50年的有100萬戶所以中央有沒有考慮剛剛您有講有很多的條件那我們就我們所知其實 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
8968.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
8993.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
可能要願意來做的不管是民間或者是當事者就是住戶那有一些誘因所以政府有沒有在研擬譬如說讓建商他有這個誘因來幫這些50年以上汙齡的來幫他們來更新就可能在容積率上的獎勵各方面這一塊有沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
8994.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
9018.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
我們除了重建以外我們目前有一個方案是在協助這些比較老的建築物去做所謂的整修那整修之後它不會去動到它原來的容積率整修也好給它檢測各方面檢測完就知道要怎麼整修但是有一些它整修已經不足以負荷了它可能 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
9019.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
9048.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
現在我們的地震次數越來越頻繁您不否認吧還有強度也越來越大其實這種天災地變不是我們能夠預期或是我們能夠制止的但是我們能做好的就是防災那所以有50年以上的房子有100萬戶所以我們還是得要有一些相關的法規這些法規那來讓它能夠盡快的50年以上的屋齡的 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
9048.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
9067.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
如果該更新的就要更新所以本席問的是那你這個更新最大就沒有誘因那你如果能夠有一些這個規範出來那有誘因是不是可以讓建商他也願意去去負荷然後當事人他覺得OK我租金補貼有人而且 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
9068.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
9094.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
我們這個更新了以後譬如說我去哪裡租房子兩三年接著我就可以有一個新的新的這個住家這個是政府要來做要來推動的啊這一塊到底目前有沒有我們每個縣市的進度我們是不是容後我們跟委員報告進度剛剛委員提到數字我們有數字現在全國現在中央在帶領我的重點是中央在帶領你這個誘因出來了沒 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
9096.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
9105.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
我們有這個整個配套的措施因為講起來蠻複雜的那我現在就問你 你的獎勵措施是什麼你有鼓勵民間來參與嗎這個部分都有 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
9111.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
9129.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
簡單講都有都有有有對容積獎率稅都有但是你的容積獎率讓民間願意做嗎他覺得這也沒有誘因啊所以這一塊我要你你有沒有瞭解這個現況他到底這個我們這個我們要去分析民間可不可以做這才是重點啊有沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
9129.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
9150.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
民間一定可以做但是不是所有的民間都可以做有些他有他不同的條件所以我們要看他的位置就這個東西我們定出來的是全國性的規範今天你不能這樣講因為危險的他沒有分他的位置他危險自成以來就倒了然後就很慘所以這一塊你們要去想啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
9151.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
9174.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
那有些地方他民間不能做那一定是有困難在那政府不介入我跟你講民眾就是在那裡真的天災地變來他們就很辛苦了解甚至很痛苦啊我們全台全台灣大家都不忍看到這個情況是不是可以加速進行好沒問題我們內政部很努力很努力 議院內讓本席了解一下你們的進度 好不好好的 好 謝謝委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
9182.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
9198.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
好 丁學忠 丁學忠 丁學忠委員不在鄭振淺 鄭振淺 鄭振淺委員不在鍾嘉斌 鍾嘉斌 鍾嘉斌委員不在高津素梅 高津素梅 高津素梅委員不在邱志偉 邱志偉 邱志偉委員不在蘇清泉 蘇清泉 蘇清泉委員不在 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
9205.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
9226.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
好 那登記發言委員除不在場者外 其餘均與發言完畢 詢答結束委員蘇巧慧 丁學忠 高津素美 所提書面質詢列入紀錄 刊登公報書面質詢和未及答覆部分 請相關單位於一週內以書面答覆並複製本會 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
9229.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
9256.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
報告委員會那我們現在請宣讀討論事項所有條文第三條委員賴瑞榮等16人提案委員謝依鳳等17人提案將第一項第三款知行政院農業委員會修正為農業部第五款知行政院環境保護署修正為環境部第七款知行政院原子能委員會修正為核能安全委員會其餘同現行條文 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
9258.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
9279.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
第十九条委员赖瑞龙等16人提案增订第三项第四项工业管线灾害防救业务计划由行政院审议后送立法院备查工业管线之运作安全维护管理监督及灾害防救等事项应以专法定之专法未公布施行前应遵守现行相关法令之规定其余同现行条文 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
9279.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
9299.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
第二十二条委员丁学忠等十六人提案将第一项第二款修正为灾害防救教育训练观念宣导及专业知识培养其余同现行条文第四十八条委员谢一凤等十六人提案将第二项后段执行政院农业委员会修正为农业部其余同现行条文宣读完毕 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
9303.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
9311.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
好 我們討論事項所列議案我們另定期繼續審查本次會議到此結束 先來散會 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
9350.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
9351.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
謝謝大家。 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
9378.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
9380.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
就是要那個...那個...那個...那個...那個...那個...那個... |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
9393.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
9394.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
謝謝觀看,下次見 |