| IVOD_ID |
165294 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165294 |
| 日期 |
2025-11-12 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-4-15-10 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期內政委員會第10次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
10 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
15 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
內政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期內政委員會第10次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-11-12T10:05:07+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-11-12T10:13:18+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:08:11 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/a35f0de19abcdbe3f0e66242bab596dcb3e5644d9c426883cc7208a858208f5cd7dcd980b23cef445ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
牛煦庭 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:05:07 - 10:13:18 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-11-12T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期內政委員會第10次全體委員會議（事由：邀請大陸委員會主任委員及財團法人海峽交流基金會董事長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。【11月12日及13日二天一次會】） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
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謝謝主席邱主委有請請邱主委劉委好主委早安政治表態不如解決方法大家今天包含媒體朋友大家都很關心這個沈伯央委員遇到了這樣子的一個威脅是我是覺得有一點為他感到不止 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
26.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
48.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
因為都已經被威脅 確實是遇到了一些危險 一些困難啦在國內還要被你們這樣消費 我是覺得很糟糕啦我的意思是說 講這個事情 我請問邱主委今天大家講說我們一起聲援他 改變了聊什麼現實嗎最主要是要讓老共的跨境鎮壓沒有效果他這個跨境鎮壓就是在恫嚇你以及分化我們國內的團結 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
50.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
71.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
跨境鎮壓對不對如果大家講了一致的這個宣示我們當然要保護他嘛對不對大家都中華民國國民對不對不管他是不是立法委員我們都不希望中華民國國民受到威脅但我們這樣講又怎麼樣呢他具體來講他會改變什麼你有多大的把握他會具體的改變一些現狀跟狀況還是只是純粹國內的政治考量你不希望造成國內的恐慌 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
71.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
101.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
他就是要製造我們的 恫嚇我們跟分化我們那我們反而面對這個挑戰每一次的挑戰我們都把它轉換為我們台灣韌性的提升他的恫嚇讓我們更團結所以到最後還是要考國內政治的考量還是大過一屆所以我講你不要消費人家這個對兩岸關係也很不好兩岸關係也很不好我們待會都會在這個題目裡面去做討論嘛本期的主張是這樣的具體的保護啊比起立場的表述它一定更有意義嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
103.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
128.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
現在沈博洋委員遇到這樣的狀況全世界各地他還剩哪些國家可以去你們有沒有清單跟委員報告我們看到中共跟其他六十幾個國家有簽引渡協議的國家我想這裡面絕大部分的特別是民主國家他不會再引渡這個政治犯良心犯我們沈博洋委員他能不能去越南 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
130.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
147.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
你有辦法把握講嗎我想我們過去也說跟中國大陸關係比較密切比較密切容易受到中國大陸影響的國家但是風險當然會比較高對啊我現在就要問風險清單嘛所以他能不能去越南他能不能去柬埔寨我想行前你會不會建議他不要去 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
148.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
177.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
我們現在行前要審慎評估啦行前審慎評估好 他能不能去土耳其我想我們的外交部門也會積極的去嗆各國他安全的不僅是沈伯央位置我們國人都一樣今天大家要聽到的其實是這樣嘛也就是說我們基於保護他安全的實際作為是什麼比如說我剛問他能不能去越南你講越南什麼樣什麼樣的關係我不建議他去可能會有危險對不對大家聽到才安心嘛他能不能去土耳其他能不能去白俄羅斯 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
178.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
206.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
他能不能去塔吉克他能不能去摩洛哥或埃及就這些東西才是大家要聽到的嘛是對不對你是講民主國家民主國家他都可以去這些都有一點尷尬這些具體的事我想我們外交部門啊都在積極的在協助畢竟他是我們的國會議員那去做參訪我想我們外交部門都會來積極協助不僅是省委員啦一些被這個成都22條 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
208.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
231.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
這個已經鎖定的這些對象或是名單裡面的人我們都一樣要保護他們你們也有一個相對的風險控管的名單嘛也就是說可能被對岸列為接下一段下一階段目標的各種中華民國國民的名單有嗎有多少個人在裡面啊你們是評估啊跟委員報告齁這個我們說我們國人赴各國去齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
233.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
254.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
從結果論來看會配合中共引渡政治犯的國家他應該案例極少極少我跟你講總統昨天出來開了記者會然後現在大家今天在那邊這邊說你竟然是要要求韓國瑜院長表態那重點不在這裡嘛總統出來開記者會講說我們已經把所有相對紅燈危險黃燈危險相對安全的國家我已經做了做了明確的區分 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
254.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
270.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
我們針對接下來中華民國國民哪一些人可能也會遇到這樣的狀況我名單有掌握有做預警這叫安定國人這叫方法結果我們的政府沒有提出任何安定的具體方法然後搞政治表態主委你覺得這樣是最好的方式嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
271.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
287.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
跟委員報告我覺得第一時間國人要團結一心一致對外這個對老共的這個回擊是最有利我們不接受你跨境鎮壓對於我們的恫嚇分化你的具體的做法就是最明確的宣示嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
287.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
305.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
你的這樣的做法出來之後國人我相信大家都會支持也才會團結結果你沒有第一時間端出方法你反而第一時間要大家做政治表態這不叫解決問題這叫消費這個事件我提醒你還有一點時間趕快來處理政治表態不如解決方法好 再來 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
306.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
332.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
最近我們陸委會跟海基會的預算還是有明顯的增加但是我看了一下報章雜誌媒體報導跟相關的新聞露出基本上都是互相校正佔了絕大多數的比例你們現在到底是交流還是對抗各位委員我們一直強調我們要希望交流取代圍堵用對話取代對抗還是我們的政策主軸 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
332.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
351.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
我們對於正常健康有序的良性互動我們都會繼續協助這我們都聽了你報告也講了我們大概書面也看了你們現在跟海基會有沒有一個明確的分工你們誰上黑臉誰上白臉因為現在局勢不太好這是個客觀事實我們不是扮演黑白臉我們是工人的分工 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
352.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
370.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
有關於跟民眾的這個服務的案件我們跟中國大陸可能進行協商和兩岸交流海基會是我們政府唯一委託的這個中介團體其實上它一年都有30萬件的服務案件 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
370.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
389.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
我知道 你的服務案件我一向不挑剔的這個沒有問題 大家都做得很好但問題是啊 這個政治溝通的角色不管是陸委會還是海基會現在第一看不出有什麼明確的分工第二重點是看不出成果如果今天兩岸的管道相對暢通有序今天省博安委員會不會發生因為有一個管道在為總體的風險進行降溫但現在是因為局勢不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
393.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
414.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
能了解委員講的管道我們過去跟對岸的各種溝通聯繫其實我們持續在維持維護著但是中國大陸他基於要我們先接受他的政治前提這個政治前提的框架裡面沒有中華民國生存的空間所以我們不會去答應他的政治前提 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
415.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
432.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
我們每次的民調主流民意也告訴我們不贊成我們接受中共的政治前提去跟中國大陸進行官方互動如果是這樣我今天沒有在談你官方互動是什麼因為中華民國的外交處境本來就很困難兩岸關係也非常複雜所以你手段要靈活所以我才問 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
433.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
448.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
你跟海基會怎麼分工有沒有跑位對不對是因為基於靈活嘛那靈活最後的結果我們都還是要看具體成果嘛那現在具體成果是我沒有講你一定什麼官式的互動或什麼東西你各式各樣的方法都可以但各式各樣的方法要降低兩岸的總體風險嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
449.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
476.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
這當然也不純然是你們的責任啦畢竟這是路線的問題啊但客觀的現實我要在最後的時間我提醒一下邱主委羅秘書長吳董事長也都在聽沒有關係總體的風險升高代表的是雙邊溝通的失靈也代表中國大陸單邊主義的機會會增加他不會再管我們島內在想什麼不會再管我們國民的情感跟立場啦他會搞他自己的政治進程這件事是很危險的 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
477.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
490.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
像沈博洋委員的事情可能會越來越多所以我剛才花時間問你這個清單準備好了沒風險控管好了沒 相關名單準備好了沒國人要看到的是這個請陸委會 海基會都好好加油謝謝 |