| IVOD_ID |
165273 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165273 |
| 日期 |
2025-11-12 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-4-26-9 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第9次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
9 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
26 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
社會福利及衛生環境委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第9次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-11-12T10:53:16+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-11-12T11:08:08+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:14:52 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/a35f0de19abcdbe3f0c4a0cc4d0bf160b62a46119727b9b9a983a902744326173e3ed5aee600c39c5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
涂權吉 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:53:16 - 11:08:08 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-11-12T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第9次全體委員會議（事由：邀請勞動部部長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。） |
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好 謝謝主席 那麻煩請我們勞動部紅部長還有勞發署黃署長還有署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
27.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
49.063 |
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好 洪部長因為最近我們在臉書社團有看到一個具名的貼文那針對這個當事人描述他透過我們台中的某仲介來聘用家庭看護移工來照顧家裡中風的長者那他在看到這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
50.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
68.506 |
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他聘用的家庭看護移工他履歷中有載名他是有經驗的照顧照護工作長者有照護工作經驗的那後來他實際聘用之後他發現這個聘用的家庭看護移工 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
69.898 |
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95.098 |
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照顾能力跟卫生观念都很差而且也没有能力为病患备餐后来询问过这个家庭看护移工之后他这个移工也亲口承认他这个照顾经验照护经验是印尼仲介方编造伪造的事实上他完全没有经验也是第一次出国第一次做看护 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
95.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
119.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
那後來當事人在協調廢聘跟賠償損失的協調過程中最後問這個仲介負責人他說他是轉達印尼仲介方的履歷他並沒有能力去核實 他只是推薦所以最後這仲介方也只同意 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
120.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
147.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
退還他當初的仲介費27000塊那對於這履歷不實所造成他造戶成本完全沒有處理那在這60天到90天的空窗期當事人勢必要去花更多高額的錢去請這個台籍看護那後來據我們了解這家仲介公司其實在 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
148.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
175.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
我們的評鑑裡面我們勞動部的評鑑裡面他5年都是最高分的A級還有2年還是GU列為免評那其中在顧客服務裡面他幾乎是拿滿分那我想請問一下部長那像發生這樣子的事情他的履歷偽造編造不實造成我們當事人他這些的損失 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
178.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
196.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
那到底是誰的責任是跟委員說明有關這個仲介提供不實資料的部分依照舊服法第40條第一項第8款可以大聲一點嗎好像太小聲依照就業服務法第40條第一項第8款 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
198.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
219.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
對於接受委任辦理聘僱外國人之申請許可招募引進或管理事項提供不實資料的部分我們是可以處罰的依照第65條我們的罰環可以處30到100萬那這是罰環的部分那行政處罰的部分我們也可以視況處以停業跟最重可以到廢止 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
220.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
235.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
所以其實對於仲介所提供這個履歷不實他是有罰款的那為什麼我們台灣這個仲介說他說這是印尼提印尼仲介提供給他的他沒有辦法核實他也沒有辦法處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
236.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
257.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
他只是負責轉介負責推薦那是這樣子的嗎有關這個部分我想我們依照這樣的個案我們都會交由地方政府去查查那如果查查確實他的資料是提供不實資料的時候我想我們會有後續的處分所以其實我們本身裡面是有這個罰則的那我想請問一下如果這個案例這個過程是事實那到底是 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
259.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
285.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
台灣仲介方有責任嘛他只是把仲介費推完就沒事了嗎如果說海外的仲介也有過失那原則上我們對海外仲介也有管理我們也會處以一部分的停止或是撤銷他的認可那像說台灣這邊的仲介他只是推薦轉介他沒有核實的義務是這樣子嗎我想可能這個還是要就個案事實去做釐清看責任的歸屬是哪一方 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
286.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
300.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
對啊 所以剛委員有提到說有關雇主的損失那因為基本上這是屬於民事契約所以雇主一樣可以向勞工提出求償所以我覺得我們勞動部尤其勞發組這邊要看一下因為我們檢視你們 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
302.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
323.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
私立就業服務機構從事跨國人力仲介服務品質評鑑指標裡面針對顧客服務的這個項目裡面並沒有要求仲介必須查核移工的履歷提供正確的訊息所以難怪在你們評鑑裡面它在顧客服務幾乎是快滿分 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
325.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
346.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
還有在勞發署提供的外勞與仲介契約僱主與仲介委任契約的範本裡面也沒有要求外勞有義務提供真實履歷或者仲介有核實外勞履歷的義務條款所以契約裡面也沒有這個條款你們評鑑裡面也沒有要求他們要這樣去做 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
347.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
372.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
報告委員基本上這是基本法尊那KPI可能會針對需要在特別強化的部分去做核分加減分那委員的指教的部分我想我們目前也正在針對評鑑指標全面的在進行檢討那剛剛之前也有委員提到說這個評鑑的指標可能沒有辦法做出良誘之間的這個範這個這個篩略所以我想我們會針對評鑑的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
375.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
396.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
所以這邊我也跟部長來講一下那針對你看我們剛剛看他從評鑑裡面也沒有你們的契約裡面也沒有所以我希望勞動部跟勞發署一定重視一下針對應該從評鑑還有我們的定期化契約裡面是不是要去做一個適度的修正因為我相信這絕對不是個案 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
398.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
425.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
因為據我們所知發生很多類似的情況所以是不是應該要再加強這些的規範避免類似的狀況再發生是的謝謝委員好那請我們部長還有署長再多幫忙好這已經我相信這絕對不是個案了好那再接接下來要為我們桃園市針對我們缺工缺了很多客運司機來請命那 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
429.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
451.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
針對我們客運業開放橋外生留台擔任駕駛這一部分其實不是桃園市缺工缺駕駛據我們了解全台的公共客運缺司機已經成為事實那尤其桃園市本期的選區其實都是屬於比較偏鄉那後來 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
454.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
470.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
他們為了要增加客運的班次才發現不是不增加有經費有車子可是沒有司機那很多偏鄉都仰賴這個公車公共客運所以這個沒有司機已經造成很大的困擾 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
471.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
489.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
那後來我們也了解其實勞動部本來在今年初有公告要開放橋外生留台從事客運駕駛工作可是後來臨時又在五月喊卡好像是擔心橋外生的語言能力是否足以擔任客運駕駛 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
490.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
507.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
那這邊我也跟部長來說明一下據我跟桃園市政府溝通了解過桃園市政府說其實針對這一部分他已經全套的培訓方案都已經出來了那針對小客車駕駛的駕照他持有要兩年 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
508.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
527.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
然後這橋外生畢業前要取得華語文能力檢定基礎級資格的大士橋生然後經過客運業者面試之後隨即可以參加授訓及就業培訓的計畫而且馬上給他薪水高達五萬元所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
528.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
544.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
基本上這部分他們報名上已經確實有這些人也不會說有外界擔心橋外生語言能力不足而衍生執行服務的風險那針對我們桃園市交通局他說目前 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
546.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
574.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
他開放僑生已經預先報名就等中央頒布修正法案他就可以縮短人力補充的時程待法令頒布之後就能馬上加入授訓的行列那所以針對這部分勞動部是不是可以研議針對若干的縣市先開放試行舉辦也就是我們試點的概念說這部分部長可以幫忙解決 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
575.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
602.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
缺司机的问题因为这些相关的这个业务那开放与否其实是会需要目的事业主管机关来向劳动部申请那因为刚刚委员在讲到很多部分因为大家之所以讨论到他的语言能力有个部分就是要去处理大家会很在意这个交通安全上面的问题或运输安全上的问题所以之前我们也跟交通部这边去讨论也就是意思是说 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
604.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
623.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
如果今天就像剛有這樣子需求的業者他可以跟交通部這邊來提出那跟交通部一起來討論那到底用什麼方式那可以來確認他的在交通安全上面的語言的能力或者相關風險上面的管理風險上面的避免的這個狀況那 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
625.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
647.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
再來向勞動部這邊來提出申請對所以我剛有跟部長這邊說明因為你們那時候喊咖的原因就是說擔心橋外生的語言能力是否足以擔任客運的價值跟文說明當初是因為確實外界有這樣的聲音那這個聲音主要是因為是不是大家會說那這個語言方面的能力或者是 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
648.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
673.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
可能他相關因為確實運輸業尤其是司機他其實涉及到是這個運輸跟交通安全上面的問題他甚至會比小客車他的在開這個大的遊覽車他的挑戰也再高一點所以怎麼樣去確認在交通安全上面的風險那這個部分會需要可能相關有需求的業者跟交通部這邊來討論因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
675.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
690.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
勞動部這邊不太有辦法能夠去主管交通安全要怎麼把關的部分所以這部分基本上剛剛也跟部長報告其實相關的疑慮他們已經有提出解決的方案對 但是我說這部分可能要跟目的世界主管機關去討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
691.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
717.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
交通部勞動部然後假設今天桃園市政府說其實他已經預先報名人已經準備好他配套也做好可是因為中央法還是要去跟目的事業主管機關去做這部分的提出所以演繹好到時候再由目的事業主管機關來向勞動部來提出申請那如果有機會的話就我們就用4點4半的方式來做我想我們還是因為涉及到安全的問題大家都會比較謹慎所以這還是要請交通部也要幫忙 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
718.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
734.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
對 因為交安的部分真的 這不是勞工部可以很專業的能夠處理好 那時間問題 那我再簡單快速問一下因為我們目前也是缺工的問題啦針對救福法規規定 攔領外勞 三年工作許可 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
735.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
759.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
其實這從民國86年修正到現在已經大概有30年我們現在接到很多工商團體倡議是不是這三年續聘的機制目前很難符合產業缺工的問題是不是可以把這個三年的時間延長延長到四年那也可以減少雇主到期續聘的行政成本 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
760.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
786.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
也可以適度調整延長工作許可的時間對於移工、雇工我們覺得都是有利的那這部分是不是有機會來調整來延長的確在這個許可期間的延限部分坦白說不同的出發點就有不同的看法可能從工商界來說比較希望拉長可是從勞工團體的角度移工團體的角度希望縮短 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
788.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
803.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
可是現在很確實 其實你看我們去工廠 工商團體很多真的很確實都是缺工非常嚴重對 所以我表達的意思是說確實這邊各種不同的出發點利害相關方會有不同的看法 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
804.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
830.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
所以這個企業界希望拉長 部長你去評估一下因為我們看一下109年監察院的調查報告其實超過三年以上停留台灣的移工其實已經超過58%而且這是五年前的數據喔而且我們再看超過六年以上的移工其實也將近四分之一所以其實喔這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
831.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
855.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
移工的需求真的已經是長期的趨勢那我們這30年前修正的我是建議我們來研議看是不是有機會能夠延長解決目前工商團體這很嚴重缺工的問題這真的因為這個議題比方說會有一些國際上面的組織其實他們反而是希望我們要縮短 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
857.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
875.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
好 那部長我這邊提出來也是幫我們工商團體來提出是 所以我是說這個事情的確大家會有看法上面方向上不一樣的狀況因為現在缺工真的很嚴重希望這個部長來研議一下是 可能會需要缺工的問題是不是有可以朝著這方面來比較需要綜合的思考啦但是的確 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
876.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
886.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
不同的角色不同利害相關方的期待是不同的我們請往勞動部針對這部分來幫我們衡量評估一下看有沒有機會從這部分來加強改善好 謝謝 |