| IVOD_ID |
165271 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165271 |
| 日期 |
2025-11-12 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-4-20-7 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期財政委員會第7次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
7 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
20 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
財政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期財政委員會第7次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-11-12T11:02:46+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-11-12T11:14:39+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:11:53 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/a35f0de19abcdbe3f5f8a919be344ccf906ee7c1e9a76e5aa983a902744326179f207473fb5f34925ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
王世堅 |
| 委員發言時間 |
11:02:46 - 11:14:39 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-11-12T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期財政委員會第7次全體委員會議（事由：邀請金融監督管理委員會彭主任委員金隆就「推動普惠金融與金融科技概況及相關措施」進行專題報告，並備質詢。） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
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請王世堅委員謝謝主席 我請金管會彭主委好 請彭主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
34.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
48.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
今天在這一年半來我們在立法院的相處我對你的質詢方面我想今天是最困難講的一個議題就是關於 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
50.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
76.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
我們金管會管轄的銀行局管轄的這37家公民銀行他們最近針對詐騙的部分他們很多都去設了AI的設備那麼就來針對警示戶的部分去強化那這其實在大方向是對的因為這幾年來 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
79.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
93.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
我們整個國家我們台灣受到詐騙可以說影響到幾乎我們全民身物痛極那受害的戶跟金額都這麼龐大 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
95.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
110.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
我看了這詐騙儀表板雖然我們在我就以這兩年來每一天4億元曾經降到一天大概2億 1億8左右現在啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
111.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
127.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
現在又回升了又大概在3億5到4億左右所以平均一年等於高達1000億以上那這個金額是龐大到幾乎是我們這個社會已經無法容忍 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
128.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
153.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
但是針對銀行的部分我們希望說他能夠加強對警事戶管理不要讓這些詐騙藉由銀行資金去流通這個方向是對的可是在執行了這一年以來那麼尤其銀行引入AI |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
154.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
182.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
那來對於警示戶來提前警示那現在有出了一些狀況比方說某大銀行啊他自己聲稱說他引進這個AI以後他們大量的這就排除了很多他們列為警示戶但是他自己宣稱他這樣子他的AI模型準確率 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
183.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
211.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
他認為高達50%欸 主委高達50%但是相對他的誤差率也有50%啊天啊 那被他錯殺的戶頭非常痛苦幾乎跟受詐騙的民眾一樣跟受害民眾一樣也是痛不欲生啊比方說這樣子對老人家 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
213.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
235.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
對於經濟弱勢者對於小兒存款戶對於零工經濟對於身障者對他們都生活上還有學生族群對他們都造成很大的影響所以這一個部分我認為我們應該要做一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
239.528 |
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263.723 |
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檢討了啦因為現在對AI帳戶的警示他們是說半年或者一年以上沒有交易或者戶頭裡面沒有達到銀行公告的應該要有的存款餘額這是小額的那銀行就認為這個有風險就把它剔除還有就是說如果你單日裡面交易比數多的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
265.317 |
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280.69 |
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這一些是他們的標準但是但是主委難道小兒存款戶他就沒有開戶的權利嗎他就沒有使用金融服務的權利嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
282.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
306.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
所以我具體建議你們要針對現在已經高達我舉例喔我們在2022年的時候警示帳戶是6萬6千戶到今年年初這是根據我們金管會銀行局的報告裡面說到今年1月警示戶已經突破15萬戶但是但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
310.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
329.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
各種調查機構還有包括網路上做的一些調查大家估計啊其實這個無端捲入受害的民眾他戶頭被凍結戶頭被排除不能使用的高達兩百萬戶 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
332.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
359.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
這是民間的評估那以我們民意代表接到的接到的說這個戶頭他被凍結他是無辜的要去解凍的以我們接到的每天接到的量數來看我在想如果沒有達到200萬戶以上那至少數字是遠高於我們金管會所估計的15萬戶那我認為這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
362.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
388.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
我跟他們說如果第一點要區分第一點如果是檢警調他們通報要警示這個絕對沒第二句話這個我們就依法依規那這個要等檢調去查這個可營資金來源那再去解除但是第二點對於我們銀行自己管理尤其透過 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
389.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
405.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
失誤率高達50%高達50%的誤判的這樣子的AI來警示的部分我們應該要區分啊要區分說這個高中低的風險 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
407.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
423.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
金額越小越低嘛還有是不是針對銀行自己過濾以後要去排除的要去做為警示戶的是不是比方說他要做到說第一個他要用簡訊通知這個戶頭啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
426.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
442.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
這位開戶人說我已經把你列為情侍了因為你達到我們銀行說的那幾項第二點 是不是在他交易之前交易的時候就要告知比方說有南部父母親 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
445.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
469.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
匯錢到北部小孩在北部讀書啊每個月匯5000塊生活費你不要等到匯進來的他要用的時候才發現說原來他也被列為省事務為什麼因為他小兒嘛他沒有達到銀行所謂的存款餘額沒有達到他們的標準那 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
472.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
487.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
錢匯進來才知道不能用這些都是銀行其實可以做到的他們能不能做到會不會去做就在乎我們金管會要不要對他們要求啦你的看法呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
488.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
503.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
我想剛才委員提到很多是非常非常好的建議就是我們現在也在做的第一個可能民眾搞不清楚這是到底是因為有人報案的警示帳戶還是銀行自己卡控我們會來做一個區分那再來就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
504.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
532.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
那個準確率不高這件事情一定要改善因為否則的話我們的美意就剛好打折扣所以我的意思是說這部分我覺得該委員用分級分區然後通知事前比如說事後通知還有加速假設真的是比如說去解控要盡量的加快速度這個如果沒有問題的話當然精準是最重要的如果說精準做不到我想這些很多問題根源都來自於這裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
533.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
559.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
你剛講到這個很好 你說加速解控的部分 對好不容易 銀行局要求之下那這些銀行有去設他們還設這個叫24小時專線說你要是無辜被控 被列為情愫你可以用電話來解控可是 這樣子的服務我四個字形容形同虛設 為什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
561.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
579.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
因為電話去啦談一談以後他結論還是要開戶者說你要到銀行來臨櫃辦理臨櫃辦理就算了喔有的還要求說你要到原開戶銀行哇天啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
580.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
599.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
這些對於就我剛剛講的老人家生長子還有學生族群甚至商班族群他也這個非常的困擾就對那有很多實質的例子啦比方說打零工維生的就光我這邊辦公室接貨的打零工維生的 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
601.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
618.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
他的戶頭金額不大但是有時候他會零星去存入幾筆存入都很小他一天打零工收一千八兩千塊他這樣子去存入這何錯之有這種也被控管也包括就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
620.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
630.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
小兒金額多了以後那銀行就說我要看你的金流對這個金流要提出解釋我請問詐騙都那麼龐大的金額我們每一天2億5到4億被詐騙 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
637.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
666.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
有辦法分成那麼小筆嗎那要幾千個戶頭幾萬個戶頭才有辦法達成的所以偏偏去找這些小金額的麻煩這剛老師銀行啊藉由這一次大家對詐騙的厭惡結果讓他們去排除掉銀行厭惡的小額帳戶不是這樣嗎他覺得小額帳戶他管理麻煩他管理成本高啊所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
668.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
691.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
主委我提醒這句話不要變成黑臉的偷吃 白臉的抵仗我們台灣話講的 黑鳥偷家 白鳥找小這是不對的我們要幫警方檢警調一起防詐 打詐防止這些金融的交流 這是對的 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
692.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
713.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
但是要對真正詐騙者所以這個部分我希望你們對銀行對各銀行尤其現在有這些烏龍AI在幫助的這些銀行我希望你們能夠對他們加強查查跟管理好不好會 謝謝謝謝委員的指教 謝謝 |